There are just some questions Google can't answer, or when there is, it's not in layman's terms. Well, here, you can ask those questions and (hopefully) get answers.
EDIT. Lets try to keep this thread for general questions, no hyper local stuff (i.e. particular intersections/ signs etc).
EDIT 2. No lists of questions. No more then two per post, please. No triple (or more) posting either.
Could a person legally build a publicly open, private road w/ European standards and signage (in the US)?
Given all the various signage in business parks, airports, and Disney Land/World, I would assume yes. I don't know for sure though.
If it's open to the public, it's subject to the MUTCD, so no.
Quote from: Alps on March 03, 2014, 07:08:07 PM
If it's open to the public, it's subject to the MUTCD, so no.
That's interesting. So shopping centers, hospitals, office parks, etc., are somehow legally beholden to MUTCD rules? If so, by what legal avenue? This seems to be a formality at best.
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/knowledge/faqs/faq_general.htm#praq1
QuoteOwners or parties responsible for such private roads are encouraged to bring the traffic control devices into compliance with the MUTCD and other applicable State Manuals, and those who do not may find themselves exposed to increased tort liability.
So yes, you legally can.
Well, here's something odd I've wondered about:
Vinton Street in Omaha Nebraska crosses Interstate 480 and the overpass is REALLY steeply inclined, for an overpass. So, in the entire country, what is the steepest grade on an overpass crossing a genuine Interstate ??
(too weird? not weird enough?)
:eyebrow:
For myself I have been wondering:
Why is Newport News called Newport News? Obviously I get that Newport came from Christopher Newport but why is News there.
(Note: There is a small area called Newport near the intersection of US 460 and VA 42 in Giles County. It is not an incorporated town so I doubt that it has anything to do with why "News" is in Newport News.)
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 03, 2014, 10:55:35 PM
Why is Newport News called Newport News? Obviously I get that Newport came from Christopher Newport but why is News there.
Not known for sure, several stories exist. Pick one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newport_News,_Virginia#Etymology)
Why is pooing cool?
Quote from: 74/171FAN on March 03, 2014, 10:55:35 PM
Why is Newport News called Newport News?
also, Hampton Roads has nothing to do with roads.
Quote from: Jardine on March 03, 2014, 10:21:35 PM
Well, here's something odd I've wondered about:
Vinton Street in Omaha Nebraska crosses Interstate 480 and the overpass is REALLY steeply inclined, for an overpass. So, in the entire country, what is the steepest grade on an overpass crossing a genuine Interstate ??
I want to say that Fondulac Dr over I-74 in East Peoria, IL is steeper, but it's hard to tell just by eyeballing.
Street View: http://goo.gl/maps/42glv
Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2014, 02:18:10 PM
Why is pooing cool?
If you have to ask, you're better off tagging bees.
I believe Newport News has come up before, but it didn't have its own thread.
Why is Arakansas not spelled the way its sounds?
Quote from: roadman65 on March 04, 2014, 04:53:37 PM
Why is Arakansas not spelled the way its sounds?
Nice rak.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 04, 2014, 04:53:37 PM
Why is Arakansas not spelled the way its sounds?
I read up on this actually. It has something to do with the state government mandating that it be pronounced 'Arr-Can-Saw' while retaining the spelling of 'Arkansas'. I don't remember the exact details, though, so sorry!
In Kansas it has the Arkansas River, yet in that state they say it as it is spelled. My friend from Wichita says that is the correct way the state should call itself as well LOL.
Then again why is environment spelled that way when most people say it as envi-or-ment? Yes, I know we have one person on this forum who stated once before that he pronounces it as spelled, but I have always heard it as envi- or- ment and never as envi- ron- ment.
Arkansas is the frog pronunciation, dude.
Americans don't get frog pronunciation - hence why they ditched superfluous letters in words derived from Latin or French.
And English, as a language, is not phonetic - there's no such thing as most people not saying it how it is spelled (eg 'environment' with its silent first 'n'). Obviously you can't legitimately pronounce 'Arkansas' as 'Sausage', because that isn't how those letters in that way, in that context, are pronounced. However 'Cholmondeley' can be legitimately pronounced 'Chumley' as is how you pronounce that name.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 04, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Then again why is environment spelled that way when most people say it as envi-or-ment? Yes, I know we have one person on this forum who stated once before that he pronounces it as spelled, but I have always heard it as envi- or- ment and never as envi- ron- ment.
I pronounce it as env-iron-ment (iron, as in the appliance or the metal), so it makes phonetic sense in terms of smaller English words.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 04, 2014, 05:05:16 PMThen again why is environment spelled that way when most people say it as envi-or-ment? Yes, I know we have one person on this forum who stated once before that he pronounces it as spelled, but I have always heard it as envi- or- ment and never as envi- ron- ment.
Not sure who "most people" is. Most people I know say it "en-vyern-ment." Kind of sounds a bit to me like "Why don't we just spell it 'nucular?'"
Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 04, 2014, 08:13:49 PM
"Why don't we just spell it 'nucular?'"
Because that pronunciation is
incorrect.
Quote from: english si on March 04, 2014, 05:24:02 PM
Americans don't get frog pronunciation - hence why they ditched superfluous letters in words derived from Latin or French.
We don't?
Mackinac
Charlevoix
Cheboygan
Sault Sainte Marie
Marquette
Joliet (old Frog - now spelled Joliette)
La Salle
Need I go on?
Some are pronounced properly, and some are not, and there is no rhyme nor reason as to why.
Plus, we pronounce "garage" properly.
Quote from: Brandon on March 05, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: english si on March 04, 2014, 05:24:02 PM
Americans don't get frog pronunciation - hence why they ditched superfluous letters in words derived from Latin or French.
We don't?
Mackinac
Charlevoix
Cheboygan
Sault Sainte Marie
Marquette
Joliet (old Frog - now spelled Joliette)
La Salle
Need I go on?
Some are pronounced properly, and some are not, and there is no rhyme nor reason as to why.
Plus, we pronounce "garage" properly.
I once handled a matter in which opposing counsel was located in Albany, New York, and one of the attorneys' first name was "Jean." I had to send a letter about something and I asked my colleague who had previously spoken to them whether "Jean" was a man or a woman. He seemed surprised that anyone would think of the issue, but in that part of the country, relatively close to Quebec, it's a valid question!
Quote from: english si on March 04, 2014, 05:24:02 PM
Americans don't get frog pronunciation - hence why they ditched superfluous letters in words derived from Latin or French.
Latin has superfluous letters?
Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2014, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 04, 2014, 08:13:49 PM
"Why don't we just spell it 'nucular?'"
Because that pronunciation is incorrect.
Not necessarily.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucular
Quote from: Brandon on March 05, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
Plus, we pronounce "garage" properly.
The "garage"? Hey fellas, the "garage"! Well, ooh la di da, Mr. French Man.
A car hole!
what, then, is the improper pronunciation of 'garage'? rhyme with 'carriage'?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 05, 2014, 10:50:59 AM
what, then, is the improper pronunciation of 'garage'? rhyme with 'carriage'?
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/garage
Quote from: Brandon on March 05, 2014, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 05, 2014, 10:50:59 AM
what, then, is the improper pronunciation of 'garage'? rhyme with 'carriage'?
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/garage
wow. I've never heard it that way, and I thought I've heard every regional dialect in the US.
I am going to New Zealand in November so I will do some research there. (unless, as is quite likely, I completely forget this conversation by then.)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 05, 2014, 10:44:22 AMLatin has superfluous letters?
With British pronunciation they can!
OK, I was too general, but certainly we over this side of the pond seem happier with colour (rather than color), through (rather than thru), Marlborough (rather than Marlboro). Plus we are fine with pulling stuff like Cirencester being said 'Sister' in certain quarters and we love to laugh at American tourists asking for directions to Lie-ces-ter Square, or asking for Wor-ces-ter-shire sauce, rather than Les-ter Square and Woo-ster-shire sauce.
American English pronunciation and spelling is much more phonetic than British English.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 05, 2014, 10:57:44 AMwow. I've never heard it that way, and I thought I've heard every regional dialect in the US.
I've only heard it as garage-rhymes-with-large as a joke or from someone incredibly posh. Garage-rhymes-with-carriage is just the obvious way for me to pronounce it and anything else is silly.
I can understand that others would disagree, but as I said, English pronunciation is not set in stone - there's wrong ways and legit ways, but there's a wide variety of legit ways.
PS - my garage-rhymes-with-carriage is different to the English bloke on wikipedia. More gar-ige with a barely pronounced 'r' (it is almost ga-ige with a 'broad a')
are "colour", "Marlborough", etc close to actual Latin? as in, should I expect to see "COLOVR" carved into some Roman piece of architecture?
Quote from: english si on March 05, 2014, 01:37:17 PM
through (rather than thru)
that just seems like a "save space on signs" issue. I don't think that anyone anywhere else in the US uses "thru". unless you're talking about abominations like "lite", "alrite", and the like, which are one step away from the "U LyK c4T f0tOzZ LolTIEFIGHTER333" level of discourse.
QuoteGarage-rhymes-with-carriage is just the obvious way for me to pronounce it and anything else is silly.
I had originally thought Brandon was referring to someone
in the US, but not as influenced by French (i.e. one side or the other of the "Arkansas" debate) as pronouncing "garage" in an "incorrect" manner. thus my surprise that any US regional dialect pronounces "garage" somewhat differently. again, I've always heard it the way Moe Szyslak said it (mockingly).
What were they thinking when they created the original US highway grid? What were they thinking when they created the Interstate grid?
Quote from: texaskdog on March 05, 2014, 03:18:13 PM
What were they thinking when they created the original US highway grid? What were they thinking when they created the Interstate grid?
The original US highway grid, from what I can tell, was to be heavy in the east where the population was. I assume the Interstate grid followed the same concept. The West was sparsely populated in the 1920s and 1950s.
Quote from: texaskdog on March 05, 2014, 03:18:13 PM
What were they thinking when they created the original US highway grid? What were they thinking when they created the Interstate grid?
The original grids still make sense, mostly. Is there some particular question about them that you'd like to ask?
Quote from: 1 on March 04, 2014, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 04, 2014, 08:13:49 PM
"Why don't we just spell it 'nucular?'"
Because that pronunciation is incorrect.
So is a pronunciation dropping the second "n" in "environment," the point that statement was meant to make in the post you excerpted it out of context from.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 05, 2014, 01:56:42 PM
are "colour", ... etc close to actual Latin? as in, should I expect to see "COLOVR" carved into some Roman piece of architecture?
The French (whom I also mentioned and you've ignored) added the -u and we happily went along with that:
[C13: from Old French colour from Latin color tint, hue] (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/colour?r=75&src=ref&ch=dic)
The Brits kept the French practise of bonus letters, the Americans only somewhat kept it. This makes some place names in Louisiana (the purchase) irritatingly pronounced - the state keeping the French way of saying it, the river getting the American. New Orleans and Orleans sounding very different, etc (noo or-leans and or-le-on).
It's not a bad thing (arguably it is a good thing), but the point I'm saying is that English isn't phonetic, though American English is more so than British English
Quote from: Brandon on March 05, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
We don't?
Mackinac
Charlevoix
Cheboygan
Sault Sainte Marie
Marquette
Joliet (old Frog - now spelled Joliette)
La Salle
Need I go on?
Some are pronounced properly, and some are not, and there is no rhyme nor reason as to why.
Havre de Grace, Maryland - correct local pronunciation is "haverdugrace."
Lancaster:
In MA & OR - Lan-cas-ter
In PA - Lang-caster
Worcester:
In MA - Wo-ster or Wi-ster (locals pronounce the latter)
In PA - Wor-ces-ter
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 05, 2014, 05:08:29 PM
Havre de Grace, Maryland - correct local pronunciation is "haverdugrace."
Not Harv da Pha?
Quote from: kkt on March 05, 2014, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on March 05, 2014, 03:18:13 PM
What were they thinking when they created the original US highway grid? What were they thinking when they created the Interstate grid?
The original grids still make sense, mostly. Is there some particular question about them that you'd like to ask?
Some of those small stubby ones. Why? Some numbers were skipped. Some have long duplexes. for starters.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2014, 09:18:37 PM
Quote from: NE2 on March 04, 2014, 04:32:09 PM
tagging bees.
huh?
I believe this is a reference to the Tea Party so obscure that not even NE2 himself understands it. That said, stop injecting politics into things NE2.
Quote from: Alps on March 05, 2014, 07:11:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 04, 2014, 09:18:37 PM
Quote from: NE2 on March 04, 2014, 04:32:09 PM
tagging bees.
huh?
I believe this is a reference to the Tea Party so obscure that not even NE2 himself understands it. That said, stop injecting politics into things NE2.
I googled it and a bunch of hits came up for actually tagging bees, most notably in Australia. So that's why I asked.
Why do some maps show a town called TB at the northern junction of US 301 and MD 5 north of Waldorf, MD?
Wikipedia and other sources claim no such town with such name exists. I assume it is an abbreviation for something and not a toll bridge either.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 05, 2014, 08:23:37 PM
Why do some maps show a town called TB at the northern junction of US 301 and MD 5 north of Waldorf, MD?
How to fish: http://www.google.com/search?q=tb+maryland
Nice tasty fish: http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2001-03-30/features/0103300353_1_george-county-marker-prince-george
Quote from: Brandon on March 05, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
Mackinac
Charlevoix
Cheboygan
Sault Sainte Marie
Marquette
Joliet (old Frog - now spelled Joliette)
La Salle
I'm not from the region, so I'm sure most of these are different from what locals would say, but I pronounce those names respectively:
Mack-in-ack
Shar-le-vwah
Sheh-boy-gone
Salt Saint Marie
Mar-kett
Jo-lee-et
Luh Sall (rhyming with "stall"")
Quote from: texaskdog on March 05, 2014, 06:06:13 PM
Quote from: kkt on March 05, 2014, 04:14:13 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on March 05, 2014, 03:18:13 PM
What were they thinking when they created the original US highway grid? What were they thinking when they created the Interstate grid?
The original grids still make sense, mostly. Is there some particular question about them that you'd like to ask?
Some of those small stubby ones. Why? Some numbers were skipped. Some have long duplexes. for starters.
US 44 and 46 (both too far north, 46 is too short) were made after the rest. This is probably a reason for many others.
Interstates that are duplicated (76, 84, 86, 88) were duplicated because no other reasonable numbers were available.
I-50 and I-60 were skipped intentionally in the original plan, because it was decided that they might cause confusion by being too close to US-50 and US-60. None of the north-south route numbers were skipped because they were all needed to cover the wide expanse of the nation. Of course, we have several cases of interstates added later that are very close to US routes with the same numbers.
Quote from: theline on March 06, 2014, 09:26:50 PM
I-50 and I-60 were skipped intentionally in the original plan, because it was decided that they might cause confusion by being too close to US-50 and US-60. None of the north-south route numbers were skipped because they were all needed to cover the wide expanse of the nation. Of course, we have several cases of interstates added later that are very close to US routes with the same numbers.
Another reason why none of the north-south ones were skipped is because the major US routes end in 1 and the major Interstates end in 5. For east-west routes, both major Interstates and major US routes end in 0, causing conflict.
Quote from: theline on March 06, 2014, 09:26:50 PM
I-50 and I-60 were skipped intentionally in the original plan, because it was decided that they might cause confusion by being too close to US-50 and US-60. None of the north-south route numbers were skipped because they were all needed to cover the wide expanse of the nation. Of course, we have several cases of interstates added later that are very close to US routes with the same numbers.
I think that a set of lucky coincidences allowed the planners to get away with not overtly skipping some odd numbers in the 5x-6x range.
* north-south routes are usually shorter than east-west, so one can get away with two 45s fairly close to each other (and two 49s with just a bit of fudging on the Arkansas extension).
* US-59 is somewhat farther west than the grid would dictate, and I-59 heads somewhat further east.
* there is no US-55 and was no US-57 at the time. (also there is no US-47.)
that said, there were some numbers definitely skipped in that range: there is no I-47, 51, 53, 61, or 63, which are really the ones that would likely coincide with US numbers. (again, there is no US-47. I wonder what the planners have against that number.)
Quote from: 1 on March 06, 2014, 09:30:36 PM
Another reason why none of the north-south ones were skipped is because the major US routes end in 1 and the major Interstates end in 5. For east-west routes, both major Interstates and major US routes end in 0, causing conflict.
Most numbers ending in 5 were a second run of major U.S. Routes. What saved the day was US 55's early elimination and the relative narrowness of Midwestern states (if Illinois were as wide as it's tall, it might have both I-65 and US 65).
How do they get the arrow shape in traffic lights, especially before the dot-like LED lights became common?
My first guess would be an opaque filter, but that would seemingly provide a slight intensity gradient progressing inward. Either the intensity gradient exists and I don't notice it, or another method is used.
Quote from: Duke87 on March 05, 2014, 09:07:39 PM
Quote from: Brandon on March 05, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
Mackinac
Charlevoix
Cheboygan
Sault Sainte Marie
Marquette
Joliet (old Frog - now spelled Joliette)
La Salle
I'm not from the region, so I'm sure most of these are different from what locals would say, but I pronounce those names respectively:
Mack-in-ack
Mack-in-awe The "c" at the end is slient.
QuoteShar-le-vwah
Shar-leh-voi
QuoteSheh-boy-gone
Sheh-boi-gahn
QuoteSalt Saint Marie
Soo Saint Marie Commonly called "The Soo" for short.
QuoteMar-kett
Yep.
QuoteJo-lee-et
Yep.
QuoteLuh Sall (rhyming with "stall"")
Lah Sal (sounds like Sal)
Two more interesting facts about the Michigan francophone place names:
Mackinac is the proper spelling of the straits, island, park, and nearly everything related, except for nearby Mackinaw City (pronounced the same). There's always one oddball.
Sault Sainte Marie is home to the famous Soo Locks, which enable ocean-going ships to climb from Lake Huron to Lake Superior. Wikipedia claims they are sometimes spelled "Sault Locks" though I've never seen the spelling elsewhere.
I rented a house to a lady and her elderly mother whose family owned the newspaper in Newport News. I asked her if they called the paper the Newport News News. She didn't think it was funny. Even she didn't know where the city got its name.
Why does I-19 end in Downtown Nogales instead of terminating at the AZ 189 & Mexico 15D border crossing? I would think that would be more of a logical place then the current place where you have to round the block to get from I-19's southern terminus to the entry point of current.
Quote from: theline on March 07, 2014, 10:31:40 PM
Sault Sainte Marie
I always thought it was pronounced like "so", and that every weather reporter pronounced it wrong. :pan:
Quote from: Zmapper on March 06, 2014, 10:19:25 PM
How do they get the arrow shape in traffic lights, especially before the dot-like LED lights became common?
My first guess would be an opaque filter, but that would seemingly provide a slight intensity gradient progressing inward. Either the intensity gradient exists and I don't notice it, or another method is used.
Your guess is correct: http://www.tapcosignal.com/sa_poly.html (http://www.tapcosignal.com/sa_poly.html) ...item #16 near the bottom of the page. I have a couple of those masks--they [mine] are solid metal painted black. The reflector dish around the bulb does a nice job of evenly distributing the light.
Quote from: sammi on March 08, 2014, 02:50:18 PM
Quote from: theline on March 07, 2014, 10:31:40 PM
Sault Sainte Marie
I always thought it was pronounced like "so", and that every weather reporter pronounced it wrong. :pan:
In French it is.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 05, 2014, 01:56:42 PM
are "colour", "Marlborough", etc close to actual Latin? as in, should I expect to see "COLOVR" carved into some Roman piece of architecture?
CO
VNTY:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Patch_of_the_Prince_Georges_County,_Maryland_Police_Department.png (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Patch_of_the_Prince_Georges_County,_Maryland_Police_Department.png)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on March 09, 2014, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 05, 2014, 01:56:42 PM
are "colour", "Marlborough", etc close to actual Latin? as in, should I expect to see "COLOVR" carved into some Roman piece of architecture?
COVNTY:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Patch_of_the_Prince_Georges_County,_Maryland_Police_Department.png (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Patch_of_the_Prince_Georges_County,_Maryland_Police_Department.png)
yes, but the spelling of "county" doesn't vary between American and British English. it's not like one spells it "conty" (or, oh dear, eliminates the other vowel instead).
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 10, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
yes, but the spelling of "county" doesn't vary between American and British English. it's not like one spells it "conty" (or, oh dear, eliminates the other vowel instead).
Quote from: vtk on September 05, 2012, 11:24:41 PM
Apparently I was living life on the dangerous side today. I pulled over to get this pic (on my phone camera):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fvidthekid.info%2Fimghost%2Foldsign-madisoncunty.jpg&hash=33006660e7251b66146c0af359867aa6468403dd)
Here's one: what are those loops of wire that are always next to a traffic light hanger on span wire installations? Why don't they just cut the power cables to length?
Quote from: realjd on March 10, 2014, 07:49:57 PM
Here's one: what are those loops of wire that are always next to a traffic light hanger on span wire installations? Why don't they just cut the power cables to length?
I would guess that it's there in case they need to lengthen the wire by a small amount. moving the signals on the mast a bit, maybe?
Quote from: roadman65 on March 08, 2014, 02:48:01 PMWhy does I-19 end in Downtown Nogales instead of terminating at the AZ 189 & Mexico 15D border crossing? I would think that would be more of a logical place then the current place where you have to round the block to get from I-19's southern terminus to the entry point of current.
This question is difficult to answer definitively without access to the original planning documentation, which--as far as I know--is not available online. However, it is possible to form an educated guess by looking at historic topographic maps of the area.
The lowest and flattest part of Nogales is the area along present Business 19 north of the border/Mex. 15 south of the border. This has nearly all of the population. There are rugged hills to the west; both I-19 and the Mex. 15D freeway have many steep rock cuts. SR 189 has fewer, but only because it essentially follows a hilltop routing.
At the time I-19 was finished (early 1970's), the Mex. 15D freeway, which runs between the Arizona SR 189 border crossing and Mex. 15 south of Nogales, did not exist. The connection was made via a surface street (currently four (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Nogales,+AZ&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Nogales,+Santa+Cruz+County,+Arizona&ll=31.327205,-110.963873&spn=0.001249,0.002411&t=m&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=31.327205,-110.963873&panoid=_GkyDZTP0jBpXuz79WWtFg&cbp=12,183.51,,0,7.61) lanes, divided in some places but not others; the 1981 USGS 7.5' topographic map covering the Nogales area implies it was then two-lane) which Google Maps shows as Periférico LuÃs Donaldo Colosio Murrieta. The Mex. 15D relocation to the west (operated as a
corredor fiscal with no exits between the border and the customs station) opened around 2000, at around the same time US Customs and Arizona DOT redeveloped the SR 189 Mariposa port of entry into a large facility oriented primarily at handling commercial vehicles.
On the Sonora side, nearly all of the development in Nogales is east of Periférico Colosio. On the Arizona side, the SR 189 corridor was (and to an extent still is) very bare, and Nogales as a whole has very little development that is not within a mile of SR 89/Business 19. The built-up area peters out very rapidly north of the SR 83 grade separation about a mile south of SR 189.
So, at the time I-19 was being planned and designed, routing it along present SR 189 would have entailed limiting Nogales to just one local service exit, for SR 189 itself, which is quite far out of town and remote from the downtown border crossing. From the standpoint of international traffic, such a routing would have skirted the built-up parts of Nogales on both sides of the border, but would have entailed connecting an Interstate-quality facility with what was then a much inferior counterpart south of the border. On the other hand, the routing actually built gives Nogales three local service exits in addition to SR 189 (Western Ave., International St., and the terminus) and allows residents on the American side to benefit from an access-controlled facility within easy reach of the population core. It is awkward to have to go along three sides of a square to reach the border crossing from I-19, but given how the latter almost shaves the border fence, this was probably necessary in order to inject southbound I-19 traffic into the border queue at the back.
Quote from: DaBigE on March 08, 2014, 05:29:18 PM
Quote from: Zmapper on March 06, 2014, 10:19:25 PM
How do they get the arrow shape in traffic lights, especially before the dot-like LED lights became common?
My first guess would be an opaque filter, but that would seemingly provide a slight intensity gradient progressing inward. Either the intensity gradient exists and I don't notice it, or another method is used.
Your guess is correct: http://www.tapcosignal.com/sa_poly.html (http://www.tapcosignal.com/sa_poly.html) ...item #16 near the bottom of the page. I have a couple of those masks--they [mine] are solid metal painted black. The reflector dish around the bulb does a nice job of evenly distributing the light.
I always thought it was masked out on the lens with black paint, learn something new everyday.
Quote from: theline on March 07, 2014, 10:31:40 PM
Two more interesting facts about the Michigan francophone place names:
Mackinac is the proper spelling of the straits, island, park, and nearly everything related, except for nearby Mackinaw City (pronounced the same). There's always one oddball.
Yep, regardless of spelling, it's always pronounced "Mackinaw." But there is another oddball. Old US 2 from St. Ignace north is named Mackinac Trail. Portions of old US 31 and old US 131 in the Lower Peninsula are named Mackinaw Trail.
QuoteSault Sainte Marie is home to the famous Soo Locks, which enable ocean-going ships to climb from Lake Huron to Lake Superior. Wikipedia claims they are sometimes spelled "Sault Locks" though I've never seen the spelling elsewhere.
Also, note that Sault Ste Marie is adjacent to Soo Township.
Quote from: roadman65 on March 08, 2014, 02:48:01 PM
Why does I-19 end in Downtown Nogales instead of terminating at the AZ 189 & Mexico 15D border crossing? I would think that would be more of a logical place then the current place where you have to round the block to get from I-19's southern terminus to the entry point of current.
Probably similar to I-35 ending shortly before the international bridge in Laredo. The border crossing already existed prior to the interstate. At the time, it was probably sparsely populated and not in desperate need of a freeway access point to Mexico, which most certainly didn't have anything close to an interstate/freeway at that time. The freeway simply got you as close as necessary. No different than some hackjob freeway interchanges on an upgraded portion that utilize the old interchange and route the freeway around: US35 and I-71, US63 and I-70, etc.
Quote from: Sykotyk on March 23, 2014, 08:10:32 PMProbably similar to I-35 ending shortly before the international bridge in Laredo. The border crossing already existed prior to the interstate. At the time, it was probably sparsely populated and not in desperate need of a freeway access point to Mexico, which most certainly didn't have anything close to an interstate/freeway at that time. The freeway simply got you as close as necessary.
That explanation doesn't work, since border crossings existed for both SR 189 and US 89 in the Nogales area at the time I-19 was being planned and designed. You could argue that it would have been better to route I-19 along SR 189 instead because that alignment is less hilly (thus cheaper to build), and less populated on both sides of the border, which exposes cross-border traffic to less congestion delay. (The US 89 border crossing would have had more lanes, but also more traffic congestion since it feeds directly into downtown Nogales, Sonora.) Given these considerations, why choose a new-terrain location for I-19 that is both more expensive to build and leads to more congestion on the Mexican side?
My theory (sketched out upthread) is that the designers placed more of a priority on local traffic service in Nogales, which is reasonable given that (1) relatively little traffic actually crosses the border, and (2) delays clearing immigration and customs mean a freeway makes relatively little difference to the total time required to transit the US/Mexico border zone. I-19, as ultimately built, reaches directly into downtown Nogales and has four local-service exits, as opposed to just one exit far out of town if the SR 189 corridor had been chosen.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 23, 2014, 09:38:40 PM
That explanation doesn't work, since border crossings existed for both SR 189 and US 89 in the Nogales area at the time I-19 was being planned and designed.
Are you sure? The first entry for the current SR 189 west of I-19 (http://www.azhighwaydata.com/resolutions/?syear=&eyear=&crc=&rtnum=189&submit1=Submit) is from 1971, and SR 189 is not on the 1971 official (http://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/index.html).
Quote from: NE2 on March 23, 2014, 10:21:45 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on March 23, 2014, 09:38:40 PMThat explanation doesn't work, since border crossings existed for both SR 189 and US 89 in the Nogales area at the time I-19 was being planned and designed.
Are you sure? The first entry for the current SR 189 west of I-19 (http://www.azhighwaydata.com/resolutions/?syear=&eyear=&crc=&rtnum=189&submit1=Submit) is from 1971, and SR 189 is not on the 1971 official (http://www.arizonaroads.com/maps/index.html).
Actually, after looking more closely in different sources, I see the facts offer more support for Sykotyk's theory than I had originally thought, so I apologize for speaking slightingly of it.
Here is what I have been able to determine:
* Azhighwaydata.com gives a date (probably the title sheet signature date) of 1969 for "Nogales Interstate Freeway," which is presumably the length of I-19 from its southern terminus to approximately the SR 189 interchange. Azhighwaydata.com gives a date of 1970 for the signing along this length, which was done under a separate contract (captioned "Nogales-Otero TI") and extended from the southern terminus north to Peck Canyon Road (Exit 20). My guess is that this length opened to traffic around 1971 or 1972.
* An ADOT publication,
Arizona-Sonora Border Master Plan (2013), gives short histories of the various land ports of entry. DeConcini (present SR 89/Business 19 crossing in downtown Nogales) is described as "more than 100 years old." Mariposa (SR 189 crossing) opened to commercial vehicles in 1976 and passenger cars in 1978.
The USGS 7.5" quadrangle covering this area dates from 1981 and shows both ports of entry in operation, with Mex. 15 routed along what is now Periférico LuÃs Donaldo Colosio, skirting built-up Nogales, Sonora to the west and hooking up with SR 189 at the border.
My interpretation, based on this evidence, is that there was probably a plan to create a new border crossing to the west of Nogales (DeConcini was already landlocked back then) around the time the I-19 alignment around Nogales was being chosen, but I-19 was routed along its present track rather than what is now SR 189 partly for better local service and partly also because DeConcini was, at the time, the bird in hand. There may also have been a plan (subsequently abandoned) to use the Mariposa/Nogales III crossing only for commercial vehicles.
What's the point of the new red or green solid circles in signs referencing traffic lights, like "left turn yield on green" or "no turn on red"?
Few who can't read understand the word "red" is going to figure out what the rest of the sign says, so that can't be it.
My guess is that someone is more likely to read it if there's something nearby and similar. Kind of like an If (you see this) -Then (do this) statement?
Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 24, 2014, 07:06:47 AM
What's the point of the new red or green solid circles in signs referencing traffic lights, like "left turn yield on green" or "no turn on red"?
Few who can't read understand the word "red" is going to figure out what the rest of the sign says, so that can't be it.
It's to indicate that the sign refers to the green ball, not the green arrow. Leaving is just saying "left turn yield on green" can be ambiguous.
The color also helps draw attention to the sign.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 24, 2014, 07:06:47 AM
What's the point of the new red or green solid circles in signs referencing traffic lights, like "left turn yield on green" or "no turn on red"?
Few who can't read understand the word "red" is going to figure out what the rest of the sign says, so that can't be it.
Someone on this forum, I think either Takumi or cpzilliacus (more likely Takumi, I'm guessing), once referred to that style of "No Turn on Red" sign as "No Turn on Japan."
I am still relatively new to this forum so I would like to ask a question about other road forums that many occasionally talk about here.
I was always wondering why some people get angry real easily at new users that seem to appear on here from time to time. One in particular got me interested when he bragged about his thousandth post where the moderator warned him that if he did that again he would be banned from here. I later encountered another user here who started referring to US highways as federal routes where one moderator gave him the third degree as well. Then after meeting some of you in person at mini road meets I finally found out why all of this.
It appears that many of you belong to a forum called MTR which many of the new users on here are old users from there and can tell by MO that it is them. So many of you just act like you would if you talked to him on MTR here. I also learned what the term blawp means as it was some user on there that used to annoy the crap out of many here and that is why one new user was immediately banned on here.
Anyway, I was just curious to know what this MTR is and who's site it was part of or still is? I googled MTR and it did not come up for me, but similar uses of the letters in business only.
It's misc.transport.road, the Usenet group that pre-dated this forum. The unmoderated nature of Usenet led to a long decline where more and more of the posts became trolling/spam. Back in its heyday, it was allegedly a lot like this forum (those days were gone by the time I started reading it).
So basically it was something that was good that went bad, and is no longer.
Quote from: vdeane on March 27, 2014, 12:26:39 PMIt's misc.transport.road, the Usenet group that pre-dated this forum. The unmoderated nature of Usenet led to a long decline where more and more of the posts became trolling/spam. Back in its heyday, it was allegedly a lot like this forum (those days were gone by the time I started reading it).
MTR is still open and still receives message traffic:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/misc.transport.road
However, it is effectively dead compared to its heyday in the late nineties and early noughties. It was founded in December 1995; soon after I started participating in it in 2001, longtime regulars told me that its halcyon days were already past. In 2003 there was a proposal to create a parallel moderated newsgroup, misc.transport.road-moderated or similar, to tamp down on the flamewars. It ultimately failed.
To answer Roadman65's other questions:
* No-one "owned" MTR--the way Usenet works is basically that system operators agree to allocate certain amounts of space and bandwidth to hosting Usenet newsgroups (which are set up, according to a defined hierarchy, by communal agreement) and to provide facilities (such as a news server) to handle the message traffic for them. Usenet is a very old Internet institution, dating from the 1970's, and facilities like Google Groups and its predecessor Deja News were only interfaces and message archives, not part of Usenet itself.
* Yes, some former MTR users can be recognized by
modus operandi. Some former MTR users recycled their usernames for this forum, while others didn't. (On MTR I was variants of "Argatlam"--at first "argatlam" and then "argatlam_roads." My username on most forums nowadays is a fairly recognizable derivative of my real-world name since they are typically moderated and I prefer to contribute to the climate of trust rather than operate, as I did on MTR, on the assumption that my posts would speak entirely for themselves.)
Quote from: roadman65 on March 27, 2014, 12:30:20 PM
So basically it was something that was good that went bad, and is no longer.
Usenet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet). Many of the Usenet memes (sock puppets, trolls, etc), developed in Usenet, are also used in many forums.
Usenet Newsgroups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup). The various newsgroups, like misc.transport.road, that were on Usenet. It was a part of the Big 8 hierarchy.
I'd say the heyday of MTR was the late 1990s into the very early 2000s, along with a lot of Usenet before the spammers and trolls took over.
This Wikipedia article explains one reason for Usenet's decline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
Quote from: Brandon on March 05, 2014, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: english si on March 04, 2014, 05:24:02 PM
Americans don't get frog pronunciation - hence why they ditched superfluous letters in words derived from Latin or French.
We don't?
Mackinac
Charlevoix
Cheboygan
Sault Sainte Marie
Marquette
Joliet (old Frog - now spelled Joliette)
La Salle
Need I go on?
Some are pronounced properly, and some are not, and there is no rhyme nor reason as to why.
Plus, we pronounce "garage" properly.
Down in Texas we have a bunch of Spanish names that we anglofy for our enjoyment. Although I am not sure if La Grange is French or Spanish.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Down in Texas we have a bunch of Spanish names that we anglicize for our enjoyment.
It's everywhere. Islamorada, FL comes to mind. :pan:
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Although I am not sure if La Grange is French or Spanish.
I see it as French, so I pronounce it [luh-granzh]. (If it were Spanish it would be [la-gran-heh]?) But it's also commonly pronounced to rhyme with "range", like US 45 in Chicagoland.
Quote from: sammi on March 27, 2014, 02:04:54 PMQuote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Although I am not sure if La Grange is French or Spanish.
I see it as French, so I pronounce it [luh-granzh]. (If it were Spanish it would be [la-gran-heh]?) But it's also commonly pronounced to rhyme with "range", like US 45 in Chicagoland.
Grange is the French word for barn. The Spanish cognate is
granja.
Central Texas is also very German in terms of placenames--Weimar, Schulenburg, Hattermann, etc.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 27, 2014, 01:14:17 PM
This Wikipedia article explains one reason for Usenet's decline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
I'd say that was the end of the beginning (or is that beginning of the end?) for Usenet. Yet, Usenet still seemed to be decent through the late 1990s. I did notice an increase in spam and trolls nearer the end of the decade, and MTR was one of the later ones to be affected (maybe due to the folks who were on there habitually). Some of the newsgroups had devolved into flame wars during that time.
Quote from: sammi on March 27, 2014, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Down in Texas we have a bunch of Spanish names that we anglicize for our enjoyment.
It's everywhere. Islamorada, FL comes to mind.
I prefer anglofy, but that's just me.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 02:28:45 PM
Quote from: sammi on March 27, 2014, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Down in Texas we have a bunch of Spanish names that we anglicize for our enjoyment.
It's everywhere. Islamorada, FL comes to mind.
I prefer anglofy, but that's just me.
I think the term is "bastardize", as in "Marseille" is bastardized to "Marseilles", Illinois whereby the "s" is pronounced.
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 02:28:45 PM
I prefer anglofy, but that's just me.
anglify (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Anglify) :sombrero:
Seeing how it is not even a word, I am not really sure how it can be misspelled. But I chose anglofy since the root word is Anglo not angli. And especially in an internet forum (or any medium that is based solely on printed word, not spoken word with inflection), if you are going to make up a word, spell it close to the spelling of the word you are bastardizing so that most people reading it can still make out the fictional word. Just my two cents on fake word spellings.
How do you pronounce these cities? (or at least how are they pronounced locally?)
Helena, MT
Rochester NY, vs Rochester, MN
Sault Ste. Marie
Florissant, MO
Beaufort (NC or SC)
And what are the Wisconsin Dells?
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 27, 2014, 01:14:17 PM
This Wikipedia article explains one reason for Usenet's decline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
Uh-oh...that's the month I started college! I'm part of the problem!!!
For a few years, my college offered a class that was devoted to (or a majority of the class was devoted to) simply using the internet. The class would be given websites to look up and how to find information. One of those sites was even dealing with Jack Daniels, which was just awesome for the people in that class.
I'm pretty sure they don't offer such a class anymore.
I have always wondered why Arizona has each number on their mile posts as a separate sign, rather than the way the rest of the states have the mile posts as one sign. Not sure if that made sense.
I haven't read the Wiki piece on Eternal September yet, but there are a couple of things that, in my mind, poisoned MTR.
One is the many flame wars, often off-topic, that frequently broke out.
Another is the garbage posted by certain users about other users, frequently of a personal nature.
Usenet in general fell victim to other forms of discourse, and also due to providers ceasing to offer the service because of crackdown on child porn trading. Instead of merely blocking the newsgroups where the trade was going on, providers decided instead to completely abandon Usenet altogether.
Even though I had a spam trap in my email address, I always used my real name, like I do here. I"m not really a fan of anonymous usernames.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on March 27, 2014, 02:48:28 PM
How do you pronounce these cities? (or at least how are they pronounced locally?)
Helena, MT
Rochester NY, vs Rochester, MN
Sault Ste. Marie
Florissant, MO
Beaufort (NC or SC)
And what are the Wisconsin Dells?
I just know from hanging out with a native of Florissant, MO in Florissant, MO that they do not pronounce it the French way, instead pronouncing it like the light bulb.
More like floor a sent
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 27, 2014, 01:14:17 PM
This Wikipedia article explains one reason for Usenet's decline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
Many call the death blow of Usenet the purchase of newsgroup provider DejaNews by Google, which opened the floodgates and blurred the distinction of newsgroups from its own make-your-own service Google Groups.
What really effectively killed Usenet, though, was the World Wide Web, which handed easy internet use to the masses and ended the era of a small, unintuitive internet dominated by technical and academic folks. Year by year, more and more venues came into being that ended Usenet's role as the central hub of discussion on whatever subject.
I have also heard that legal issues stemming from the transmission of child porn on it led many ISPs to drop direct Usenet service altogether in the last decade, probably correctly assuming few of their users would notice.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on March 27, 2014, 03:04:59 PMprobably correctly assuming few of their users would notice.
imagine the complaint call stemming from that.
"now, sir, we've reset your modem successfully... and you can't find
what!?"
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 02:51:50 PM
I have always wondered why Arizona has each number on their mile posts as a separate sign, rather than the way the rest of the states have the mile posts as one sign. Not sure if that made sense.
easier to modularize. instead of having to run off "141", "142", "143", etc... they simply run off a bazillion 1's, a bazillion 2's, ... and let the field crew sort it out.
similar to how gas stations have individual digits, as opposed to "3.61 9", "3.62 9", "3.63 9"... all available as fully formed panels.
I speak from a biased point of view, as I never joined MTR, but in my opinion the decline of Usenet has been a good thing for roadgeeking because it's forced us to congregate in a more "modern" place. I never wanted to join MTR because, as a teen in the early 2000s,
nobody I knew used newsgroups for anything, and I worried about how the heck to set it up with my parents' email client, and it just didn't seem worth the hassle. If the AARoads forum existed in 2002, I would have gotten involved a lot earlier.
In general, roadgeeks seem a bit behind the times. We abandoned Usenet long after most other folks, we're abandoning Yahoo Groups long after most other folks, and just as forums began to decline in favor of social networking sites, we got this forum - and today it's more popular than ever before. The move to newer technology has helped younger people appreciate the hobby who wouldn't otherwise be interested.
I worry about how this community keeps getting older. Most of my Michigan roadgeek friends were born in 1979-81 and started participating in their late teens or early 20s. Here I am at 25, and now I'm the only Michigander under 31 who attends meets. rawmustard and I are the newest regulars in our state, and we've been attending events for over 5 years now. Why isn't there still a flood of new 20 year olds?
Even though I love forums and don't use much social networking besides Facebook, I hope the YouTube and Facebook roadgeek communities keep growing, because it's the only way we're going to get much fresh blood.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on March 27, 2014, 02:48:28 PM
How do you pronounce these cities? (or at least how are they pronounced locally?)
...
Rochester NY, vs Rochester, MN
It's roughly the same no matter which state you're in (and there's a lot more than two Rochesters). Always with a short "o", as in "rod".
Why is pooing cool?
And why do we even discuss pooing on a forum dedicated to roads ... ?
Just wondering ... :eyebrow:
"You know that feeling when you take a huge dump? AWESOME."
–Eric Cartman
Quote from: renegade on March 27, 2014, 03:28:52 PM
And why do we even discuss pooing on a forum dedicated to roads ... ?
Forum culture...? I guess the same reason the SEND HELP sign pops up on roadmeets.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 27, 2014, 03:12:01 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 02:51:50 PM
I have always wondered why Arizona has each number on their mile posts as a separate sign, rather than the way the rest of the states have the mile posts as one sign. Not sure if that made sense.
easier to modularize. instead of having to run off "141", "142", "143", etc... they simply run off a bazillion 1's, a bazillion 2's, ... and let the field crew sort it out.
similar to how gas stations have individual digits, as opposed to "3.61 9", "3.62 9", "3.63 9"... all available as fully formed panels.
I did always assume it was a logistics issue like you described instead of it being a fading issue. But then again, it does make it easier for replacing if a crew has a bunch of numbers to make the right combination rather than having to go to the field with the exact right numbered mile post sign.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 27, 2014, 03:44:03 PM
"You know that feeling when you take a huge dump? AWESOME."
–Eric Cartman
indeed. my second-favorite bodily release function, behind the one that was explicitly intended to be enjoyable.
Quote from: renegade on March 27, 2014, 03:28:52 PM
Why is pooing cool?
And why do we even discuss pooing on a forum dedicated to roads ... ?
Just wondering ... :eyebrow:
Shit, that's an old turd. That piece of crap is from the MTR days (see comments above). It's a rather brown meme that somehow has managed to survive becoming a coprolite and manages to smell to this very day. Personally, I think it's a lot of manure, but some folks think it's the shit.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 27, 2014, 03:44:03 PM
"You know that feeling when you take a huge dump? AWESOME."
–Eric Cartman
No shit.
Quote from: sammi on March 27, 2014, 02:04:54 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 01:58:58 PM
Down in Texas we have a bunch of Spanish names that we anglicize for our enjoyment.
It's everywhere. Islamorada, FL comes to mind. :pan:
Also known as the one fish (http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orada) that doesn't follow Jesus.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on March 27, 2014, 02:48:28 PM
And what are the Wisconsin Dells?
Pronounced like it is spelled: wis-con-sin dells. Remember that the second letter is an "i" and is pronounced that way and is not pronounced like an "e".
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 27, 2014, 02:51:50 PM
I have always wondered why Arizona has each number on their mile posts as a separate sign, rather than the way the rest of the states have the mile posts as one sign. Not sure if that made sense.
Wait, what? Looks like one sign to me. http://goo.gl/maps/zTUrB, http://goo.gl/maps/XnPBS
EDIT: Took another look at that Phoenix example. Wow, that's good!
newer signs are one-piece. older ones are discrete.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 27, 2014, 06:28:29 PM
newer signs are one-piece. older ones are discrete.
IIRC, Nebraska used to (maybe still does) also use this piecemeal system for posting mileposts.
Quote from: sammi on March 27, 2014, 02:56:53 PM
Beaufort (NC or SC)
NC: [boh-furt], SC: [byoo-furt]
I always remember those as 'boh-furt' is 'O'ver 'byoo-furt'
Quote from: Brandon on March 27, 2014, 07:16:14 PMIIRC, Nebraska used to (maybe still does) also use this piecemeal system for posting mileposts.
The 2005 Nebraska Standard Highway Signs supplement would suggest not (http://www.transportation.nebraska.gov/traffeng/mutcd/d1-4signs.pdf)--Nebraska apparently uses the standard milepost both on conventional roads and freeways (at a larger size on freeways). Could you have been thinking of Kansas instead? We use the standard milepost on freeways but number squares without word "MILE" on conventional state highways.
Nebraska definitely does, or has. Certainly the vast majority of mileposts in Nebraska are multi-piece. Same applies off interstate in Wyoming.
Quote from: corco on March 27, 2014, 08:03:15 PMNebraska definitely does, or has. Certainly the vast majority of mileposts in Nebraska are multi-piece. Same applies off interstate in Wyoming.
After doing a field check, I can confirm: yes (on freeways at least) (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=I-80+E&daddr=I-80+E&hl=en&geocode=FfRddAIdj0XM-Q%3BFRZudAIdv4_M-Q&sll=41.180915,-104.036751&sspn=0.035207,0.077162&vpsrc=6&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=14&ie=UTF8&ll=41.184678,-104.034975&spn=0.0011,0.002411&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.184633,-104.035218&panoid=3p5KSUUfA7q5Tashm2TIHg&cbp=12,79.55,,0,4.21); but the number tiles appear to be arranged horizontally (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lincoln,+NE&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lincoln,+Lancaster+County,+Nebraska&ll=40.857359,-96.721154&spn=0.004422,0.009645&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=40.857434,-96.721087&panoid=_wNhl7qlJEzfbq1E5ObzAA&cbp=12,62.36,,0,18.69), not vertically as in Kansas.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 27, 2014, 01:14:17 PM
This Wikipedia article explains one reason for Usenet's decline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
The logic in that reminds me of the famous quote often attributed to Yogi Berra, which he may or may not have said.
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
Quote from: Big John on March 27, 2014, 04:21:53 PM
Quote from: bassoon1986 on March 27, 2014, 02:48:28 PM
And what are the Wisconsin Dells?
Pronounced like it is spelled: wis-con-sin dells. Remember that the second letter is an "i" and is pronounced that way and is not pronounced like an "e".
You got confused, John, because bassoon sneaked in a non sequitur. He's asking how to pronounce all these places, and then asks "what
are the Wisconsin Dells" rather than how they're pronounced.
The Dells are cliffs cut by the Wisconsin River. Kind of like the Grand Canyon, but much smaller. They are still quite pretty and worth stopping if in the area. Take the duck ride.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 27, 2014, 08:44:53 PM
Quote from: corco on March 27, 2014, 08:03:15 PMNebraska definitely does, or has. Certainly the vast majority of mileposts in Nebraska are multi-piece. Same applies off interstate in Wyoming.
After doing a field check, I can confirm: yes (on freeways at least) (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=I-80+E&daddr=I-80+E&hl=en&geocode=FfRddAIdj0XM-Q%3BFRZudAIdv4_M-Q&sll=41.180915,-104.036751&sspn=0.035207,0.077162&vpsrc=6&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=14&ie=UTF8&ll=41.184678,-104.034975&spn=0.0011,0.002411&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.184633,-104.035218&panoid=3p5KSUUfA7q5Tashm2TIHg&cbp=12,79.55,,0,4.21); but the number tiles appear to be arranged horizontally (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Lincoln,+NE&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Lincoln,+Lancaster+County,+Nebraska&ll=40.857359,-96.721154&spn=0.004422,0.009645&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=40.857434,-96.721087&panoid=_wNhl7qlJEzfbq1E5ObzAA&cbp=12,62.36,,0,18.69), not vertically as in Kansas.
I think that's an anomaly. I've driven the entire Nebraska Panhandle highway system and a lot of the rest of the state, and have a lot of pictures of mileposts (I always take a milepost picture after a sign picture so I know where the sign is), and I don't recall having seen a horizontal one before. Here's one on N-92 heading west near Chimney Rock, for instance. I have a couple hundred more if you would like more.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Fnebraskamilepost.jpg&hash=a5a42584753302a9efd480f7e0634b60006a25e8)
Quote from: corco on March 27, 2014, 11:43:58 PMI think that's an anomaly. I've driven the entire Nebraska Panhandle highway system and a lot of the rest of the state, and have a lot of pictures of mileposts (I always take a milepost picture after a sign picture so I know where the sign is), and I don't recall having seen a horizontal one before. Here's one on N-92 heading west near Chimney Rock, for instance. I have a couple hundred more if you would like more.
Thanks for posting the photo. I think we can treat it as established that vertical arrangement of number tiles is the norm for ordinary (conventional-road) state highways in rural areas in Nebraska. But can your collection of milepost photos shed any light on the following questions:
* Are the
MUTCD-style mileposts used anywhere on freeways or expressways? If so, is there any distinction in use based on urban versus rural location, or degree of access control?
* Nebraska has its own version of the enhanced location reference marker, diagrammed in the 2005 Standard Highway Signs supplement and used on I-80 in Omaha (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Omaha,+NE&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Omaha,+Douglas+County,+Nebraska&ll=41.226522,-95.964911&spn=0.008795,0.01929&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=41.226569,-95.964709&panoid=vjjBukYc-XH8sMACeqLmiw&cbp=12,90.47,,0,17.36). Have you seen them in use on any other urban facilities?
In Kansas the situation with regard to milemarkers is not really clear-cut. Freeways and expressways have them (often with route shield against blue background when used with enhanced location reference markers (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Wichita,+KS&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Wichita,+Sedgwick+County,+Kansas&ll=37.675338,-97.368543&spn=0.004628,0.009645&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=37.675296,-97.368944&panoid=OEIDXNQIDLgT1p7jBl659w&cbp=12,80.45,,0,15.56)), but I have also seen them on the part of Shawnee Mission Parkway that is also US 56 (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Kansas+City,+KS&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Kansas+City,+Wyandotte+County,+Kansas&ll=39.033369,-94.613335&spn=0.004542,0.009645&t=m&z=17&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=39.033373,-94.613457&panoid=Y4JSJSwGdju-vylTUfs9Ig&cbp=12,281.4,,0,14.96), which in fairness cannot be regarded as anything more than a conventional road. Enhanced location reference markers used to be blue-background exclusively but the current rule seems to be blue if median-mounted, green if shoulder-mounted. The number-tile markers are generally a sure bet on rural two-lane state highways but I couldn't swear there aren't odd examples with horizontal rather than vertical arrangement (though Kansas in general is a lot less keen on milepointing things like stop signs (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Oklahoma&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Oklahoma&ll=36.319015,-96.853586&spn=0.002373,0.004823&t=m&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=36.319015,-96.853586&panoid=19qMeSjSs44iRJqCZsXC8A&cbp=12,192.36,,0,14.09)--as in Oklahoma--or object markers (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Nebraska&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Nebraska&ll=40.072628,-95.822706&spn=0.002237,0.004823&t=m&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=40.072462,-95.822705&panoid=OpKLhqrfnHGKWnquVvUq1Q&cbp=12,0.65,,0,5.94)--as in Nebraska).
FWIW, I think roadman65 makes a valuable point.
The heyday of MTR was years ago, and the community would be more open if it left all the usenet trolling/kooking/asshattery in the past. It's funny to those of us who were there, it's not funny to anyone else.
JN, here's one on I-80 from Google Street View:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.052649,-100.53473&spn=0.006918,0.009645&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.052537,-100.533996&panoid=g-xDSzlSfYbSCLcBZeLg6g&cbp=12,117.14,,3,1.13
Why is the center tube of the Lincoln Tunnel 200 feet longer than the southern tube? Both tubes have their portals side by side on both sides of the Hudson River, so they should be almost equal in length except for maybe about 50 feet because the middle tube has an s curve under the intersection of 39th Street and 11th Avenue where the south tube continues pretty much straight across 11th Avenue.
I am guessing that whoever wrote the article in Wikipedia must have his facts wrong, because common math would suggest otherwise.
When I measured them in Google, I got 7955 feet for the southern tube, 8191 for the center, and 7519 for the northern. Note that the center tube is curvier than the southern one.
Only under Eleventh Avenue where the center tube is aligned where the north tube was after it submerges on the NE corner of eleventh and thirty ninth does it really curve. The center tube is straight otherwise east of the NJ turn and between eleventh and tenth avenues. Both center and south make than same curve on the Jersey side so it should be pretty equal.
Note that it is impossible for the curve on the Jersey side to be the same length for both tubes as they are (roughly) parallel to each other (not on top of each other), and MC Escher did not design the tunnel. This difference is, in fact, approximately 200 feet.
What is the Mexico equivalent to the MUTCD and why is it almost the same as the MUTCD but just different enough to annoy you?
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 31, 2014, 12:14:55 PMWhat is the Mexico equivalent to the MUTCD and why is it almost the same as the MUTCD but just different enough to annoy you?
Manual de dispositivos para el control del tránsito (http://www.sct.gob.mx/carreteras/direccion-general-de-servicios-tecnicos/manuales/dispositivo-para-el-control-de-transito-en-calles-y-carreteras/). And it is not really similar to the US
MUTCD--no real freeway signing scheme, for example. The latest edition dates from 1986 and the basic stylistic features, such as the Mexican alphabet series (similar in appearance but not identical to the FHWA series) and the Aztec arrow, date from the 1960's at least.
Quote from: J N Winkler on March 31, 2014, 12:39:20 PM
Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on March 31, 2014, 12:14:55 PMWhat is the Mexico equivalent to the MUTCD and why is it almost the same as the MUTCD but just different enough to annoy you?
Manual de dispositivos para el control del tránsito (http://www.sct.gob.mx/carreteras/direccion-general-de-servicios-tecnicos/manuales/dispositivo-para-el-control-de-transito-en-calles-y-carreteras/). And it is not really similar to the US MUTCD--no real freeway signing scheme, for example. The latest edition dates from 1986 and the basic stylistic features, such as the Mexican alphabet series (similar in appearance but not identical to the FHWA series) and the Aztec arrow, date from the 1960's at least.
Yeah , I have never thought the BGSes look similar. More like the stop signs and yellow diamond signs.
I think what I'm about to ask here is a good fit for this thread concept, however I acknowledge that it is a major bump, so please feel free to move to its own thread if warranted!
Anyway...
At a four-way intersection controlled by a two-way stop (where traffic on the major road is uncontrolled and traffic on the minor road has a stop sign), if one car in each direction on the minor road are stopped, waiting to turn in the same direction as each other, who has the right of way? Is it whoever stopped first, or is it always the person turning right? To add more complexity, what about cases where the person turning right can go but the person turning left can't? Should traffic turning right just keep turning even though they are technically going out of turn, or should they only go if the person turning left can't go, thereby paying attention to the traffic coming from their right when they wouldn't otherwise have to?
There's an intersection like this near my workplace so it's a situation I run into quite a bit and haven't been able to identify a foolproof solution. Sometimes the person turning left will just go right away if they stopped first, other times they'll see me waiting (turning right) and wave me on, other times they'll just sit there until I go. If I see that I have a gap and they don't, I'll always just go, but then I wonder how long they'll sit there if they don't eventually just start going in front of a right turner.
Any insight on the "correct" thing to do here is appreciated!
Seems to me that if you're making a left turn that you have to yield to oncoming traffic to make it safely, unless you get to the intersection "long" before the other driver.
...
This thread could be a good catch-all for the multiple silly question threads that have been popping up recently.
Quote from: webny99 on June 21, 2024, 10:14:17 PMI think what I'm about to ask here is a good fit for this thread concept, however I acknowledge that it is a major bump, so please feel free to move to its own thread if warranted!
Anyway...
At a four-way intersection controlled by a two-way stop (where traffic on the major road is uncontrolled and traffic on the minor road has a stop sign), if one car in each direction on the minor road are stopped, waiting to turn in the same direction as each other, who has the right of way? Is it whoever stopped first, or is it always the person turning right? To add more complexity, what about cases where the person turning right can go but the person turning left can't? Should traffic turning right just keep turning even though they are technically going out of turn, or should they only go if the person turning left can't go, thereby paying attention to the traffic coming from their right when they wouldn't otherwise have to?
There's an intersection like this near my workplace so it's a situation I run into quite a bit and haven't been able to identify a foolproof solution. Sometimes the person turning left will just go right away if they stopped first, other times they'll see me waiting (turning right) and wave me on, other times they'll just sit there until I go. If I see that I have a gap and they don't, I'll always just go, but then I wonder how long they'll sit there if they don't eventually just start going in front of a right turner.
Any insight on the "correct" thing to do here is appreciated!
Normally, the vehicle that is tuning right has the priority here.
Mike