some interchanges are paragons of elegance.
others, you have to wonder just what they were thinking. this is CA-99 at Jack Tone Road in Ripon.
http://goo.gl/maps/MQjn2
I can understand it being a bit tricky that 99 is at a 45 degree angle to the grid, but this is the case for much of its length in the central valley and most places deal with it in a much more coherent manner. even the existence of two cross streets that need to be served, and a railroad on one side, shouldn't yield this much complexity.
That's a bit strange. This set at IL-38, IL-83, and IL-56 is a bit complex, but not that nuts.
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.859573,-87.954741&spn=0.009221,0.021136&t=h&z=16
When roads collide: https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.517584,-74.299078&spn=0.017715,0.03695&t=m&z=15
Got another one, from a state known to build interchanges as interesting as those in California:
Michigan Avenue, Wyoming Street, and Ford Road at I-94, Detroit, Michigan:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.325729,-83.159981&spn=0.009217,0.021136&t=h&z=16
How about the one near the Short Hills Mall in New Jersey? Depending on the maneuver you want, you might need to use as many as four loop ramps. (I'm sure part of this is due to the unbuilt road some distance to the northwest that would have handled some of the movements.)
http://binged.it/1fk16zs
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 10, 2014, 01:03:12 PM
How about the one near the Short Hills Mall in New Jersey? Depending on the maneuver you want, you might need to use as many as four loop ramps. (I'm sure part of this is due to the unbuilt road some distance to the northwest that would have handled some of the movements.)
http://binged.it/1fk16zs
There's also two completely missing movements there.
This was formerly just a traffic circle
http://goo.gl/maps/S59sk
Also...
http://goo.gl/maps/pe82U
http://goo.gl/maps/mLS5A
FAIL (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4289434,-79.9304483,16z)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/Themes/Button_Copy/images/buttons/mutcd_merge.png)Post Merge: March 10, 2014, 06:53:27 PM
MOAR FAIL (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4284008,-79.8914586,16z)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/Themes/Button_Copy/images/buttons/mutcd_merge.png)Post Merge: March 10, 2014, 06:53:30 PM
EVEN MOAR FAIL (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4343771,-79.86945,16z)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmaps.googleapis.com%2Fmaps%2Fapi%2Fstaticmap%3Fcenter%3D39.933869%2C-75.082004%26amp%3Bzoom%3D17%26amp%3Bsize%3D400x400%26amp%3Bsensor%3Dfalse&hash=ee1e85e77740c62462487742c76ca34de33b1834)
^^^ If roads were tumbleweeds
Quote from: Brandon on March 10, 2014, 11:57:36 AM
That's a bit strange. This set at IL-38, IL-83, and IL-56 is a bit complex, but not that nuts.
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.859573,-87.954741&spn=0.009221,0.021136&t=h&z=16
I stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn on Drury Lane one time and giving directions from westbound on 38 to the hotel was quite the pain, considering you can see and almost reach the hotel but can't turn left there or anywhere nearby. Loop ramp to 83 south, loop ramp to 56 east, exit for 38 east but take slip ramp to frontage road/Spring/Drury. Enough people have to do that maneuver with the two hotels, theater, office building, etc., that there are even supplementary signs blazing at least some of the trail.
Quote from: Brandon on March 10, 2014, 01:08:46 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 10, 2014, 01:03:12 PM
How about the one near the Short Hills Mall in New Jersey? Depending on the maneuver you want, you might need to use as many as four loop ramps. (I'm sure part of this is due to the unbuilt road some distance to the northwest that would have handled some of the movements.)
http://binged.it/1fk16zs
There's also two completely missing movements there.
Which two? When I trace through it, I find I can make all the missing movements by riding the ramps, though often that means using multiple loop ramps to get through. The most notable is from eastbound NJ-24 to westbound NJ-124. See here: http://binged.it/1cr5JIt That was my point in citing this interchange as being somewhat bizarre–it may appear to have "missing movements," but in reality you can make all the movements if you follow some convoluted routing.
I read something somewhere once, don't remember where, in which the writer suggested that New Jersey will often start with a relatively basic design and then just throw in as many extra ramps as are needed. Seems like a fair description.
Quote from: Zeffy on March 10, 2014, 11:59:50 AM
When roads collide: https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.517584,-74.299078&spn=0.017715,0.03695&t=m&z=15
This one should be called the "Octopus".
Back in the late 1990s - early 2000s I had to travel to NJ from Michigan a couple of times a year. I never did quite figure this one out at the Newark airport:
https://www.google.com/maps?ll=40.709288,-74.171298&spn=0.014135,0.033023&t=m&z=16
Quote from: SD Mapman on March 10, 2014, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on March 10, 2014, 11:59:50 AM
When roads collide: https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.517584,-74.299078&spn=0.017715,0.03695&t=m&z=15
This one should be called the "Octopus".
I believe we (New Jersians) refer to this as the Spaghetti Bowl. I like the Octopus though.
Quote from: Zeffy on March 10, 2014, 06:44:22 PM
Quote from: SD Mapman on March 10, 2014, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on March 10, 2014, 11:59:50 AM
When roads collide: https://maps.google.com/?ll=40.517584,-74.299078&spn=0.017715,0.03695&t=m&z=15
This one should be called the "Octopus".
I believe we (New Jersians) refer to this as the Spaghetti Bowl. I like the Octopus though.
I just call it "The Tangle." Also, pretty much every interchange in NJ with direct ramps is more screwed up than other states.
http://www.google.com/search?q=echelon+interchange&tbm=isch
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=coastal+grand+mall&ie=UTF-8&ei=TnoeU4iHMIqB1AG3iYDoDw&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ
I don't think there are many interchanges with a corkscrew offramp
Quote from: NE2 on March 10, 2014, 07:27:14 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=echelon+interchange&tbm=isch
This is included in this FHWA page: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/09060/009.cfm. Also on the page include other unusual concepts like a Michigan Left Interchange and a Center Turn Overpass.
A bit off-topic, but there's a sort-of example of the Echelon Interchange in Florida. Does it function any better than a standard 4-way signalized intersection does?
(edited wording)
Quote from: catch22 on March 10, 2014, 06:18:16 PM
Back in the late 1990s - early 2000s I had to travel to NJ from Michigan a couple of times a year. I never did quite figure this one out at the Newark airport:
https://www.google.com/maps?ll=40.709288,-74.171298&spn=0.014135,0.033023&t=m&z=16
Funny, the GSP/440 made my mind go right to this spot adjoining immediately west of your link:
http://goo.gl/maps/WblsL
WA SR 18 @ WA SR 167 (http://goo.gl/OiMZxH). Absolute disaster. It was originally just (this (http://goo.gl/dFb24C)) but then in the 70s it become the cloverleaf/diamond/missing movements disaster it is now. Of course, it's on my naughty list because the movement I do the most (167 N to 18 W) is handled by the side roads.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 10, 2014, 11:42:22 AM
this is CA-99 at Jack Tone Road in Ripon.
http://goo.gl/maps/MQjn2
As recently as the mid '90s, this was basically a simple diamond–with SB side ramps following the original two-lane 99 alignment and NB side ramps meeting the parallel frontage road (part of which is still visible) at a 90° angle.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F1iw2IcB&hash=e6f2b15ad7e7dd7c6c3c94f1514c68bd2f169617)
The most convoluted-seeming aspect of the new design is the semi-directional ramp onto 99 SB (which duplicates the more direct SB on-ramp), and my guess is that this was intended to prevent truck queueing on the overpass–as they all wait to turn left after exiting either of the two large truck stops now located at that interchange. The other redundancy is the second NB on-ramp, which is essentially the old on-ramp, and it also seems to primarily allow truckers non-stop access to reenter the freeway.
If you ignore those two redundant truck-centric ramps, though, it's a fairly straightforward four-ramp interchange.
Quote from: pianocello on March 10, 2014, 11:31:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on March 10, 2014, 07:27:14 PM
http://www.google.com/search?q=echelon+interchange&tbm=isch
This is included in this FHWA page: http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/09060/009.cfm. Also on the page include other unusual concepts like a Michigan Left Interchange and a Center Turn Overpass.
A bit off-topic, but there's a sort-of example of the Echelon Interchange in Florida. Does it function any better than a standard 4-way signalized intersection does?
That's actually (apparently) the only Echelon interchange to have been built (though, yes, it doesn't quite match the normal design, since both directions of US 1 are at the same level). I would assume it functions better, since only two phases are required for major movements (the street to the east is rather minor; in fact, removing that street makes it almost equivalent to several intersections to the east on A1A with a single flyover).
Quote from: PColumbus73 on March 10, 2014, 10:55:49 PM
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=coastal+grand+mall&ie=UTF-8&ei=TnoeU4iHMIqB1AG3iYDoDw&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ
I don't think there are many interchanges with a corkscrew offramp
I think 180 degree corkscrews are confusing enough.
50/50 shot that I would turn in my intended direction at the end of that ramp on a cloudy day.
This is a favorite of mine. The first time I was in Portland and told to get on the Ross Island Bridge, I had to study a map because of the weird layout and odd approaches onto the bridge. One of the ways on involves cutting through a residential neighborhood. I feel bad for the people that live there during rush hour.
http://goo.gl/rlh5L0 (http://goo.gl/rlh5L0)
Quote from: Brandon on March 10, 2014, 12:10:53 PM
Got another one, from a state known to build interchanges as interesting as those in California:
Michigan Avenue, Wyoming Street, and Ford Road at I-94, Detroit, Michigan:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.325729,-83.159981&spn=0.009217,0.021136&t=h&z=16
Interesting that those extra two bridges weren't built as typical loop on-ramps.
It reminds me of one from ....Wisconsin? Or Minnesota? It was a nearly perpendicular crossing but had the extra two bridges for the on-ramps. It allowed for 2 phase signals at the off-ramps and seemed pretty clever. Anyone know where that is?
On the Florida "Echelon", I wonder if maybe they had trouble widening 203rd Street (due to railroad involvement) so they had to raise all the EB above the tracks.
Quote from: Brandon on March 10, 2014, 01:08:46 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 10, 2014, 01:03:12 PM
How about the one near the Short Hills Mall in New Jersey? Depending on the maneuver you want, you might need to use as many as four loop ramps. (I'm sure part of this is due to the unbuilt road some distance to the northwest that would have handled some of the movements.)
http://binged.it/1fk16zs
There's also two completely missing movements there.
You can make the movements one requires using 4 of the loop ramps.
Quote from: johndoe on March 14, 2014, 06:28:03 PM
Quote from: Brandon on March 10, 2014, 12:10:53 PM
Got another one, from a state known to build interchanges as interesting as those in California:
Michigan Avenue, Wyoming Street, and Ford Road at I-94, Detroit, Michigan:
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.325729,-83.159981&spn=0.009217,0.021136&t=h&z=16
Interesting that those extra two bridges weren't built as typical loop on-ramps.
It reminds me of one from ....Wisconsin? Or Minnesota? It was a nearly perpendicular crossing but had the extra two bridges for the on-ramps. It allowed for 2 phase signals at the off-ramps and seemed pretty clever. Anyone know where that is?
On the Florida "Echelon", I wonder if maybe they had trouble widening 203rd Street (due to railroad involvement) so they had to raise all the EB above the tracks.
Is this what you are referring to? This is at the interchange of I-894/43 and 27th St. on the south side of Milwaukee. WisDOT calls those U-ramps, and they eliminate the left turn onto the entrance ramp. The image is old, however, as this construction was completed 3 or 4 years ago.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/894+N+27th+St/@42.9622656,-87.9473176,676m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x88051bcca2f2fd7d:0x3bfb3746fddee6cd?hl=en
That's the one!
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8955423,-74.2534567,16z
Two come to mind for me: the first is the I-20/59-I-65 interchange in downtown Birmingham, known to the locals as Malfunction Junction:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5208639,-86.8260208,17z/data=!4m2!5m1!1b1
The second is Spaghetti Junction in downtown Louisville, where I-65 junctions I-64 and I-71:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Interstate+64/@38.2583575,-85.7420688,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88448643a9eb4a9f:0xb44257182f46490c
Both of these interchanges are marvels to something, but I don't think it's modern engineering. :-/
Quote from: Charles2 on March 17, 2014, 09:20:56 PM
Two come to mind for me: the first is the I-20/59-I-65 interchange in downtown Birmingham, known to the locals as Malfunction Junction:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5208639,-86.8260208,17z/data=!4m2!5m1!1b1
Wow, I never knew there was a second one of those. (I-695/I-95 north of Baltimore, since untangled)
Quote from: Alps on March 17, 2014, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: Charles2 on March 17, 2014, 09:20:56 PM
Two come to mind for me: the first is the I-20/59-I-65 interchange in downtown Birmingham, known to the locals as Malfunction Junction:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5208639,-86.8260208,17z/data=!4m2!5m1!1b1
Wow, I never knew there was a second one of those. (I-695/I-95 north of Baltimore, since untangled)
I wasn't expecting that. Wow, I wouldn't have thought there was another outside Baltimore.
Quote from: Alex4897 on March 17, 2014, 10:52:12 PM
Quote from: Alps on March 17, 2014, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: Charles2 on March 17, 2014, 09:20:56 PM
Two come to mind for me: the first is the I-20/59-I-65 interchange in downtown Birmingham, known to the locals as Malfunction Junction:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5208639,-86.8260208,17z/data=!4m2!5m1!1b1
Wow, I never knew there was a second one of those. (I-695/I-95 north of Baltimore, since untangled)
I wasn't expecting that. Wow, I wouldn't have thought there was another outside Baltimore.
I too have been left with my mouth gaping...I thought the Baltimore diverging junction was more of a one-off. Apparently no.
Interesting...
I've seen that done without braiding the ramps.
Ford (I-94) and Lodge (M-10) Freeways, Detroit: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.359059,-83.076178&spn=0.004574,0.010568&t=h&z=17
Then there's braiding one of them, but not the other.
I-196 and US-131, Grand Rapids: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.972988,-85.676193&spn=0.009059,0.021136&t=h&z=16
Then there's this piece of shit which is baffling only because it has been kept as it is for so long for switching a major interstate from a freeway to a tollway.
Borman Expressway (I-80/94) and Indiana Toll Road (I-80/90): https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.58855,-87.232733&spn=0.01852,0.042272&t=h&z=15
And yes, I-80 has a mountable median through there: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.585597,-87.229815&spn=0.018521,0.042272&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.589106,-87.232983&panoid=Gai9zopsSGplAbocHXxQLA&cbp=12,345.02,,0,6.67
Isn't there a "diverging intersection" in North Carolina?
Quote from: hbelkins on March 18, 2014, 10:48:18 AM
Isn't there a "diverging intersection" in North Carolina?
Why, I do believe there is.
Charlotte, I-77 and I-81: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=35.273092,-80.844398&spn=0.010108,0.021136&t=h&z=16
Quote from: Brandon on March 18, 2014, 10:49:34 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 18, 2014, 10:48:18 AM
Isn't there a "diverging intersection" in North Carolina?
Why, I do believe there is.
Charlotte, I-77 and I-81: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=35.273092,-80.844398&spn=0.010108,0.021136&t=h&z=16
It's fair to note that it's partially diverging in that I-77's carriageways cross but I-85's don't, whereas the Baltimore and Birmingham examples cited earlier have (or "had," in Baltimore's case) both roads' carriageways crossing over.
Quote from: Brandon on March 18, 2014, 10:49:34 AM
Cool, thanks for showing. I think what "baffles" me about this one is why the WB I-85 to SB I-77 movement is two lanes, since it merges to one before merging onto SB I-77. Why spend that extra money on bridges, etc?
Quote from: Charles2 on March 17, 2014, 09:20:56 PM
Two come to mind for me: the first is the I-20/59-I-65 interchange in downtown Birmingham, known to the locals as Malfunction Junction:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5208639,-86.8260208,17z/data=!4m2!5m1!1b1
The second is Spaghetti Junction in downtown Louisville, where I-65 junctions I-64 and I-71:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Interstate+64/@38.2583575,-85.7420688,17z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x88448643a9eb4a9f:0xb44257182f46490c
Both of these interchanges are marvels to something, but I don't think it's modern engineering. :-/
In the case of the Louisville I-64/65/71 interchange, the marvel is that KYDOT seemed to fit most of this within three city blocks. This is being rectified a bit as road work is going on at this interchange. Not sure how it is supposed to look when completed as I saw this last Tuesday while riding to Jeffersonville, IN.
Quote from: jake on March 18, 2014, 01:40:56 AM
Quote from: Alex4897 on March 17, 2014, 10:52:12 PM
Quote from: Alps on March 17, 2014, 10:38:16 PM
Quote from: Charles2 on March 17, 2014, 09:20:56 PM
Two come to mind for me: the first is the I-20/59-I-65 interchange in downtown Birmingham, known to the locals as Malfunction Junction:
https://www.google.com/maps/@33.5208639,-86.8260208,17z/data=!4m2!5m1!1b1
Wow, I never knew there was a second one of those. (I-695/I-95 north of Baltimore, since untangled)
I wasn't expecting that. Wow, I wouldn't have thought there was another outside Baltimore.
I too have been left with my mouth gaping...I thought the Baltimore diverging junction was more of a one-off. Apparently no.
FYI, at one point in the late 1950s, something similar was proposed at I-94/US 12 (now I-394) in Minneapolis, MN. For better or worse (better IMO), it didn't get built that way.
Regarding baffling interchanges, here's one on I-495 in Lawrence, MA (https://maps.google.com/?ll=42.707133,-71.136217&spn=0.024188,0.038409&t=m&z=15) that I got to experience on Monday. BTW, a couple of the ramps go UNDERNEATH the I-495 mainline on the bridge over the Merrimack River.
Quote from: Brandon on March 18, 2014, 10:02:40 AM
Borman Expressway (I-80/94) and Indiana Toll Road (I-80/90): https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.58855,-87.232733&spn=0.01852,0.042272&t=h&z=15
And yes, I-80 has a mountable median through there: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.585597,-87.229815&spn=0.018521,0.042272&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.589106,-87.232983&panoid=Gai9zopsSGplAbocHXxQLA&cbp=12,345.02,,0,6.67
It should be noted that the ramp carrying I-80 WB from the Toll Road to the Borman has been demolished. I-80 has been detoured several miles to the west to travel I-65 south to the Borman. The interchange is every bit as baffling. I-80 mainline traffic has to cover a
snaking pattern (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/41.585451,-87.2932989/41.5845844,-87.3042637/@41.589552,-87.3025061,16z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m4!4m3!1m0!1m0!3e0?hl=en) to reach I-65.
I've not heard of any plans to replace the ramp. If someone has word on this, I'd like to hear it.
The intersection of I-105 and Coburg Rd. in Eugene, OR is a weird mess of one way roads, depending on where you're trying to go. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.0609916,-123.0801497,17z?hl=en
To get from 105 WB to MLK Jr Blvd EB (like going to Autzen Stadium from I-5), you have to take the Coburg Rd. exit, go on the northbound half of the ramp (even though MLK is south of 105), go straight through the interchange along Southwood Ln. (a one way) parallel to the freeway, then turn left on Club Rd., then turn right on MLK. To get from Coburg Rd. Northbound to 105 WB (admittedly not that useful of a movement, but not useless), you need to turn right onto MLK, right onto Club Rd., then left on the freeway ramp. Just a weird setup all around. Although, the traffic is pretty awful through here, and it might be worse if all movements were funneled directly onto Coburg Rd.
I always thought this one was a bit crazy since they re did it. I-294 at IL 50 Cicero Ave, IL 83 127th St. in Alsip.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6628349,-87.7334501,15z?hl=en
Quote from: theline on March 19, 2014, 10:00:58 PM
Quote from: Brandon on March 18, 2014, 10:02:40 AM
Borman Expressway (I-80/94) and Indiana Toll Road (I-80/90): https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.58855,-87.232733&spn=0.01852,0.042272&t=h&z=15
And yes, I-80 has a mountable median through there: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.585597,-87.229815&spn=0.018521,0.042272&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.589106,-87.232983&panoid=Gai9zopsSGplAbocHXxQLA&cbp=12,345.02,,0,6.67
It should be noted that the ramp carrying I-80 WB from the Toll Road to the Borman has been demolished. I-80 has been detoured several miles to the west to travel I-65 south to the Borman. The interchange is every bit as baffling. I-80 mainline traffic has to cover a snaking pattern (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/41.585451,-87.2932989/41.5845844,-87.3042637/@41.589552,-87.3025061,16z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m4!4m3!1m0!1m0!3e0?hl=en) to reach I-65.
I've not heard of any plans to replace the ramp. If someone has word on this, I'd like to hear it.
A new ramp is supposed to be built be the end of 2015.
Thanks, Brandon. Any word on who's paying for the ramp? I thought that was in question because it connects the ITR with roads that are under INDOT control. As a Hoosier taxpayer, I'm hoping the concessionaire picks up at least some of the bill.
QuoteIt should be noted that the ramp carrying I-80 WB from the Toll Road to the Borman has been demolished. I-80 has been detoured several miles to the west to travel I-65 south to the Borman. The interchange is every bit as baffling. I-80 mainline traffic has to cover a snaking pattern to reach I-65.
I've not heard of any plans to replace the ramp. If someone has word on this, I'd like to hear it.
Never been through this area. I-90 EB onto I-65 SB looks really confusing. A big 360 basically?
QuoteNever been through this area. I-90 EB onto I-65 SB looks really confusing. A big 360 basically?
Basically, yes....as is the reciprocal (NB 65 to WB 90).
You should have seen this interchange before it was reconstructed to what it is currently. The old interchange involved a traffic light.
There are some pretty convoluted interchanges along US 460 in the Christiansburg/Blacksburg area. The exit off I-81 has two separate ramps to US 11/Business 460, the "bump" interchange between regular and Business 460 is fairly complex, and then there's the 460/Business 460/Smart Road interchange.
Clusterfucks may look more baffling from the air, but often a close set of intersections with turn restrictions is harder to navigate. For example (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=FL-948+E%2FNW+36th+St&daddr=25.8089402,-80.2639008+to:25.8120914,-80.264119+to:US-27+N&hl=en&sll=25.811308,-80.264847&sspn=0.015666,0.028346&geocode=FSPNiQEdeis3-w%3BFSzQiQEdJEU3-ymTX8nLsrDZiDG8STLd2rbBMw%3BFXvciQEdSUQ3-ynZPEtcsrDZiDHxr0hV8d9ZzQ%3BFZjniQEdtC03-w&gl=us&mra=dme&mrsp=0&sz=16&via=1,2&t=m&z=16) (this one is signed reasonably).
If I was more aware of what was going on back when this was being designed and laid out, I would have strongly urged WisDOT not to build this odd half-interchange on US 151 on the NE corner of Waupun, WI:
http://goo.gl/maps/4imOI
This connects the city street part of WI 26 to US 151 to the northeast. WI 26 to Oshkosh is at the NE corner of the image and the WI 49 is the interchange to the south.
Me? I would have removed WI 26 from the streets (WisDOT *STILL* hasn't done that.... :rolleyes: ) and placed a simple straight across road/street bridge there - saving several millions of dollars of pvblic treasure with little, if any, loss in overall utility.
Mike
http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN
The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.
Quote from: Indyroads on March 25, 2014, 03:42:02 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN
The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.
now that one I'd really like to know the explanation for.
Quote from: Indyroads on March 25, 2014, 03:42:02 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN
The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.
It's also fun when some, but not all, ramps require surface streets: I-96 & US 31 (https://www.google.com/maps?ll=43.171834,-86.204992&spn=0.013067,0.027874&t=m&z=16). Kudos for including all possible movements, but blech!
Where did that "how to make a vomit emoticon" post go?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 25, 2014, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: Indyroads on March 25, 2014, 03:42:02 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN
The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.
now that one I'd really like to know the explanation for.
Same reason not everything needs to be a freeway: expense of bridges.
Quote from: NE2 on March 25, 2014, 04:34:51 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 25, 2014, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: Indyroads on March 25, 2014, 03:42:02 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN
The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.
now that one I'd really like to know the explanation for.
Same reason not everything needs to be a freeway: expense of bridges.
However, at that point, both are freeways. A cloverleaf with a single bridge would cost nothing more than is already there for bridges. Just ramps.
QuoteHowever, at that point, both are freeways. A cloverleaf with a single bridge would cost nothing more than is already there for bridges. Just ramps.
As SPUI noted, you missed the rail line immediately adjacent to I-75 at and south of the US 30 overpass.
There's also the matter of retaining access to/from Beaverdam.
Both of these preclude the use of a "cloverleaf with a single bridge".
While this one may not be the most confusing, this one in Cleveland is interesting in that depending on the freeway and direction you are on, you may have 2, 3, or 4 freeways to choose from at a split (I-71, I-90, I-490 and SR-176). Or if you wish to remain on I-90 either way, you "exit" to remain on I-90. Or, if you are on SR-176 North and with to exit onto I-71 South, you take a loop ramp to a C/D ramp for nearly 2 miles before you enter mainline I-71:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cleveland,+OH/@41.4674696,-81.6970838,5035m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8830ef2ee3686b2d:0xed04cb55f7621842
Meanwhile, further down I-71, a similar situation by Hopkins Airport (I-71, I-480, SR-17 and SR-237), which is made further baffling from the intersection of two major railroad lines and the airport itself:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cleveland,+OH/@41.416415,-81.827761,2519m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8830ef2ee3686b2d:0xed04cb55f7621842
Regarding I-75 and US 30, here is the original configuration: http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=4.96283823469136E-5&lat=40.8278548757232&lon=-83.9767690716709&year=T1963
Circa 1963, US 25 (pre I-75) intersected Dixie Highway at an at-grade intersection (an interchange was built here in 1965). There was a folded diamond interchange at US 30N at the present-day OH 696 interchange.
Circa 1973, US 25/I-75 had two interchanges at Beaver Dam. Exit 74, for Napoleon Road, was a half-diamond with room for a full-diamond. It was never fully built out. Exit 75 was built for US 30N.
Around that time, US 30N's freeway was built (in 1970) but did not interchange with I-75. I presume it had to do with the proximity of the N&W rail line. The freeway ended at present-day OH 696 just east of US 25/I-75 at a half-built diamond interchange.
In 1998-99, the freeway was completed eastward from Beaver Dam on a new alignment that was south of US 30N. The half built diamond at US 30N was converted into an intersection. The OH 696 interchange with I-75 (Exit 75) was rebuilt in 2006.
The folded diamond on US 25 to US 30N reminds me of the US 24/35 interchange with old IN 25 near Logansport; tight and underpowered for much speed, basically RIRO accessto US 25.
Getting on to US 30 EB from Beaverdam is a pain in the @$$ with the configuration as it now exists. The long, long loop ramp adds a mile or more to the distance vs. taking the old Lincoln Highway down to either one of the county roads intersecting US 30 or to OH 235 to get on 30 EB. I drive through there frequently on US 30, stopping at the Speedway, and I nearly always get back on US 30 EB by taking the old road down to 235. The piecemeal fashion Sherman described (US 25 later upgraded to I-75, US 30 expressway built to the west way before to the east; changing configurations of the 30/696 interchange) resulted in the monster that makes up the I-75/US 30/OH 696 mess today.
There is very little vestige of the old partly-completed, later demolished interchange between the 1970 US 30 expressway and Lincoln Highway. There is still some grading where new roadways didn't cross paths with existing stuff, and ROW is preserved (as can be seen comparing the current and 1973 aerial views) but almost all of the old stuff is gone. The ROW for the temporary-style ramp that westbound US 30 traffic used (right exit and sweep left under the bridge onto the mainline) is still there but without any traces you can see driving past.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on March 25, 2014, 03:59:05 PM
Quote from: Indyroads on March 25, 2014, 03:42:02 PM
http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN
The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.
now that one I'd really like to know the explanation for.
As others have noted, the rail line is an issue, but maybe something like that weird interchange on I-85 near Gastonia, NC, might have worked. It might have been overkill for traffic volumes, though:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2462996,-81.3008466,5252m/data=!3m1!1e3
there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented. why not here? or, why in those myriad instances?
The piecemeal fashion of building the current I-75 first as US 25 and the current US 30 first to the west, then to the east, with a change in plans for its path to the east from there, probably has a lot to do with it. Original plans (nebulous ones) had US 30 continuing north across Lincoln Highway and then going east, but that changed. In addition, the town of Beaverdam is very close by, and now there is buildup of truck stops around the interchange so the land would cost more to condemn. I've seen someone propose basically US 30 and I-75 swapping carriageways for a little distance in an idea, but it probably isn't worth it overall.
Quotethere has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented. why not here? or, why in those myriad instances?
Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities? Can't imagine there are very many...
Quote from: froggie on March 26, 2014, 04:06:53 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented. why not here? or, why in those myriad instances?
Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities? Can't imagine there are very many...
Appleton, WI (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.218662,-88.466291&spn=0.024944,0.056691&gl=us&t=m&z=15) oops, not complete
Bronx, NY (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.844025,-73.924577&spn=0.013165,0.028346&gl=us&t=m&z=16) no, not at all overkill for Beaverdam
Quote from: froggie on March 26, 2014, 04:06:53 PM
Quotethere has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented. why not here? or, why in those myriad instances?
Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities? Can't imagine there are very many...
1: Ryan and Stevenson Expressways, Chicago (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.846547,-87.636759&spn=0.009223,0.021136&t=h&z=16)
2: Edens and Kennedy Expressways, Chicago (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.962665,-87.745228&spn=0.009206,0.021136&t=h&z=16)
3: Eisenhower Expressway and Tri-State and East-West Tollways, Hillside (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.873364,-87.912769&spn=0.018438,0.042272&t=h&z=15)
4: US-40, I-55, I-55, and I-70, East Saint Louis (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=38.633483,-90.144775&spn=0.009672,0.021136&t=m&z=16)
5: US-40, I-44, I-55, and I-64, Saint Louis (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=38.619788,-90.189525&spn=0.004837,0.010568&t=h&z=17)
And that's just a small sampling. It's more common than one might think, especially in urban areas.
We're getting kind of far from:
Quote from: Brandon on March 25, 2014, 04:44:11 PM
A cloverleaf with a single bridge would cost nothing more than is already there for bridges. Just ramps.
and into 'waste of fucking money for a rural interchange' territory.
the only thing that would save me from thinking "the fuck? why is there a traffic light on a freeway-to-freeway connection" is that I'd likely have no idea that US-30 is a freeway there.
Quote from: NE2 on March 26, 2014, 04:21:37 PM
'waste of fucking money for a rural interchange'
the interchange that is currently there looks to be quite complicated, with there being, effectively, a freeway spur connecting to the Lincoln Highway. it's larger in area than the town being bypassed!
Rural land doesn't cost much compared to bridges.
QuoteAnd that's just a small sampling. It's more common than one might think, especially in urban areas.
However, with one exception (Kennedy/Edens), none of your examples show the railroad in similar proximity to the freeway as the I-75/US 30 situation. With most of your examples, the railroad is far enough away to fit in ramps.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/176/448976566_f4803d6532_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FF86h)
I'm not holding my breath for Express Toll Lane movements in every possible direction.
Quote from: NE2 on March 26, 2014, 04:11:12 PM
Quote from: froggie on March 26, 2014, 04:06:53 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented. why not here? or, why in those myriad instances?
Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities? Can't imagine there are very many...
Appleton, WI (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.218662,-88.466291&spn=0.024944,0.056691&gl=us&t=m&z=15) oops, not complete
Bronx, NY (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.844025,-73.924577&spn=0.013165,0.028346&gl=us&t=m&z=16) no, not at all overkill for Beaverdam
In those cases though, I wonder if the interchange is bounded more by the water than the railroad...
Quote from: NE2 on March 26, 2014, 04:11:12 PM
Quote from: froggie on March 26, 2014, 04:06:53 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented. why not here? or, why in those myriad instances?
Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities? Can't imagine there are very many...
Appleton, WI (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=44.218662,-88.466291&spn=0.024944,0.056691&gl=us&t=m&z=15) oops, not complete
Completion ('Bridgeview' interchange) and related major upgrades to US 10 to the east is waiting on funding.
Mike
Quote from: Brandon on March 10, 2014, 11:57:36 AM
That's a bit strange. This set at IL-38, IL-83, and IL-56 is a bit complex, but not that nuts.
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.859573,-87.954741&spn=0.009221,0.021136&t=h&z=16
Even the Circle Interchange downtown can be tricky if you're not paying attention. But the 38/56/83 interchange in Elmhurst has to be the worst in my opinion.