Is it just me, or does it drive any of you crazy when a 3di is longer than it's 2di, such as US 191 & US 91?
Quote from: texaskdog on April 10, 2014, 08:31:20 AM
Is it just me, or does it drive any of you crazy when a 3di is longer than it's 2di, such as US 191 & US 91?
Well, those aren't interstates; they're US routes. I think it happens a lot more often with interstates than US routes, since some of the three-digit US routes are pretty long. Here in the Northeast, we've got US 202 which goes all the way from Maine to Delaware, and I'm pretty sure it's longer than the eastern section of US 2.
nope. it is more meaningless to have a glorified connector ramp be given a 3di number. see I-175, both I-375s, etc.
I don't like that US 165 and 167 (and arguably 425) are major routes in Louisiana, while US 65 is largely forgotten in Louisiana and the state has a useless extension of US 63 that just overlaps a short stretch of US 167.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 09:43:48 AM
nope. it is more meaningless to have a glorified connector ramp be given a 3di number. see I-175, both I-375s, etc.
I-865, Indiana is a strong contender in that department. No exits for 4 miles and exists solely to connect I-65 (toward Chicago) with the I-465 loop.
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2014, 12:21:15 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 09:43:48 AM
nope. it is more meaningless to have a glorified connector ramp be given a 3di number. see I-175, both I-375s, etc.
I-865, Indiana is a strong contender in that department. No exits for 4 miles and exists solely to connect I-65 (toward Chicago) with the I-465 loop.
I wouldn't put I-865 in the same category as Florida's I-175 and I-375. Yes, it has no exits, but it still is 4 miles long. And was its confusing former designation (an offshoot of I-465) any better?
Quote from: Rover_0 on April 10, 2014, 12:30:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2014, 12:21:15 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 09:43:48 AM
nope. it is more meaningless to have a glorified connector ramp be given a 3di number. see I-175, both I-375s, etc.
I-865, Indiana is a strong contender in that department. No exits for 4 miles and exists solely to connect I-65 (toward Chicago) with the I-465 loop.
I wouldn't put I-865 in the same category as Florida's I-175 and I-375. Yes, it has no exits, but it still is 4 miles long. And was its confusing former designation (an offshoot of I-465) any better?
It's an artifact of the FHWA's insistence that 3di loop exit numbering starts at the south end of the loop. I-465 should start at I-65 near Zionsville and go all the way around east, south, west, and then back north to what is currently I-865. That would remove any confusion without the added 3di.
I think some interstates should be 3di vs a wasted 2di. 97 and 99 quickly come to mind. 69E and 69C also come to mind.
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2014, 12:41:11 PM
It's an artifact of the FHWA's insistence that 3di loop exit numbering starts at the south end of the loop. I-465 should start at I-65 near Zionsville and go all the way around east, south, west, and then back north to what is currently I-865. That would remove any confusion without the added 3di.
that implies a Q-shaped interstate. I would not want to be the one tasked to design quickly comprehensible signage at the 465-465-465 junction.
If we're talking about US highways, then yes, I find it annoying when a 3dus is longer than its parent. Or, when a 2dus and 3dus connect twice and the 3dus is the shorter route between the points, like with US 41 and 141. Or, when a 3dus no longer touches its parent.
If the 2 digit highway is scaled back so that it's less important than one of its 3 digit routes, I'd like to see the parent route replace the 3 digit route when possible. For example, when I-94 was built in Michigan, instead of US 12 being truncated to New Buffalo, US 112 was decommissioned and US 12 rerouted over it.
Quote from: Perfxion on April 10, 2014, 01:57:53 PM
I think some interstates should be 3di vs a wasted 2di. 97 and 99 quickly come to mind. 69E and 69C also come to mind.
Ugh, don't even mention those new suffixed routes. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smileyvault.com%2Falbums%2Fuserpics%2F10404%2Fvomit-smiley-015.gif&hash=f8f26955b3fe7aa1271ffc7f0741c38e5c4a03c3)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 02:00:24 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2014, 12:41:11 PM
It's an artifact of the FHWA's insistence that 3di loop exit numbering starts at the south end of the loop. I-465 should start at I-65 near Zionsville and go all the way around east, south, west, and then back north to what is currently I-865. That would remove any confusion without the added 3di.
that implies a Q-shaped interstate. I would not want to be the one tasked to design quickly comprehensible signage at the 465-465-465 junction.
Heading north:
TO {65} NORTH {465} EAST
Chicago
Heading west:
TO {65} NORTH {465} SOUTH
Chicago
Heading east:
{465} EAST {465} SOUTH
Not too difficult. I-865 is unnecessary.
Eliminate I-865 and leave that long ramp as US 52.
The OP meant any 3dus longer than its parent 2dus. But then, as 1 pointed out in another thread:
Quote from: 1 on March 03, 2014, 12:44:46 PM
3dus -> 3di
:sombrero:
so you're treating the 865 segment as "to 65" in one direction. may as well just keep it 865, make it unsigned, and throw in "to 465" as appropriate in the other direction (i.e. on 65).
I wonder why "to" signage isn't more prevalent on freeway segments that are not much more than ramps. I-175 could be signed as "to US-92" (or to downtown or whatnot) in one direction and "to I-75" in the other.
69C and 69E are not "wasted". If they were, that means much better routes could use them, and that's not the case.
97 and 99, however, are wasted.
Quote from: 1 on April 10, 2014, 02:56:18 PM
69C and 69E are not "wasted". If they were, that means much better routes could use them, and that's not the case.
97 and 99, however, are wasted.
They wasted our collective sanity.
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2014, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 02:00:24 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2014, 12:41:11 PM
It's an artifact of the FHWA's insistence that 3di loop exit numbering starts at the south end of the loop. I-465 should start at I-65 near Zionsville and go all the way around east, south, west, and then back north to what is currently I-865. That would remove any confusion without the added 3di.
that implies a Q-shaped interstate. I would not want to be the one tasked to design quickly comprehensible signage at the 465-465-465 junction.
Heading north:
TO {65} NORTH {465} EAST
Chicago
Heading west:
TO {65} NORTH {465} SOUTH
Chicago
Heading east:
{465} EAST {465} SOUTH
Not too difficult. I-865 is unnecessary.
This
was the original signage at that particular interchange (with US 52 NORTH) added to the "heading west" before it was changed to I-865. I do not see anything wrong with the addition of I-865. It is separate from the loop and performs the same function as future I-222 will outside of Birmingham.
Until the '90's, US-278 was shorter than US-78, as 278 went from Tupelo, MS to Hilton Head, SC. It has since been extended westward into Arkansas and practically into Oklahoma (1074 miles). US-78 goes from Memphis to Charleston (715 miles). Once I-22 is completed, 78 should probably be truncated at Birmingham.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
I wonder why "to" signage isn't more prevalent on freeway segments that are not much more than ramps. I-175 could be signed as "to US-92" (or to downtown or whatnot) in one direction and "to I-75" in the other.
It always surprised me that US 92 was never extended to connect directly with I-275 (or I-175 or I-375 for that matter). It would make sense for US 92 to make that final leap to connect to the freeway before ending. Right now, US 92 ends only a few blocks from where I-375's eastern end is.
Bringing this back to topic, US 192 is about 2/3rds the length of US 92. So while US 92 is longer, US 192 is surprisingly lengthy in comparison.
My pet peeve has always been how US 169 travels further north than US 69. Silly Minnesota!
Quote from: andy3175 on April 11, 2014, 12:21:22 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
I wonder why "to" signage isn't more prevalent on freeway segments that are not much more than ramps. I-175 could be signed as "to US-92" (or to downtown or whatnot) in one direction and "to I-75" in the other.
It always surprised me that US 92 was never extended to connect directly with I-275 (or I-175 or I-375 for that matter). It would make sense for US 92 to make that final leap to connect to the freeway before ending. Right now, US 92 ends only a few blocks from where I-375's eastern end is.
Bringing this back to topic, US 192 is about 2/3rds the length of US 92. So while US 92 is longer, US 192 is surprisingly lengthy in comparison.
My pet peeve has always been how US 169 travels further north than US 69. Silly Minnesota!
Yes, that's another one!
And while making US 27 into US 127 was the right thing to do, same thing! Of course I think the 99 longest US highways should be the 2dis. I wonder what that would look like.
Quote from: vdeane on April 10, 2014, 07:45:20 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 10, 2014, 02:56:18 PM
69C and 69E are not "wasted". If they were, that means much better routes could use them, and that's not the case.
97 and 99, however, are wasted.
They wasted our collective sanity.
Especially if you pronounce it "wosted."
US 202 should be two US highways, with a gap from Denville, NJ to Springfield, MA.
Quote from: texaskdog on April 11, 2014, 08:09:35 AM
Quote from: andy3175 on April 11, 2014, 12:21:22 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
I wonder why "to" signage isn't more prevalent on freeway segments that are not much more than ramps. I-175 could be signed as "to US-92" (or to downtown or whatnot) in one direction and "to I-75" in the other.
It always surprised me that US 92 was never extended to connect directly with I-275 (or I-175 or I-375 for that matter). It would make sense for US 92 to make that final leap to connect to the freeway before ending. Right now, US 92 ends only a few blocks from where I-375's eastern end is.
Bringing this back to topic, US 192 is about 2/3rds the length of US 92. So while US 92 is longer, US 192 is surprisingly lengthy in comparison.
My pet peeve has always been how US 169 travels further north than US 69. Silly Minnesota!
Yes, that's another one!
And while making US 27 into US 127 was the right thing to do, same thing! Of course I think the 99 longest US highways should be the 2dis. I wonder what that would look like.
Dude, they're
2duses. Not 2dis! :pan:
Any chance that the I-465 designation may one day bite the dust? Once I-69 is completed, the majority of the loop will be I-69 or I-74, if not both. I-865 could take over the northern part of the loop, and the remaining part of the western portion of the loop could be something like I-474.
Probably not, if only to hide the jump in I-69's exit numbers. They added 200 to the existing numbers, but it's less than 200 miles from Kentucky to the current I-69/I-495 interchange.
Quote from: national highway 1 on April 13, 2014, 06:06:36 AM
Quote from: texaskdog on April 11, 2014, 08:09:35 AM
Quote from: andy3175 on April 11, 2014, 12:21:22 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
I wonder why "to" signage isn't more prevalent on freeway segments that are not much more than ramps. I-175 could be signed as "to US-92" (or to downtown or whatnot) in one direction and "to I-75" in the other.
It always surprised me that US 92 was never extended to connect directly with I-275 (or I-175 or I-375 for that matter). It would make sense for US 92 to make that final leap to connect to the freeway before ending. Right now, US 92 ends only a few blocks from where I-375's eastern end is.
Bringing this back to topic, US 192 is about 2/3rds the length of US 92. So while US 92 is longer, US 192 is surprisingly lengthy in comparison.
My pet peeve has always been how US 169 travels further north than US 69. Silly Minnesota!
Yes, that's another one!
And while making US 27 into US 127 was the right thing to do, same thing! Of course I think the 99 longest US highways should be the 2dis. I wonder what that would look like.
Dude, they're 2duses. Not 2dis! :pan:
You know, I always thought di stood for digits not interstates. After all these years I'm still not up with all the lingo.
Quote from: texaskdog on April 14, 2014, 09:40:48 AM
You know, I always thought di stood for digits not interstates. After all these years I'm still not up with all the lingo.
Not that it's in any way current, but the m.t.r. FAQ (http://roadfan.com/mtrfaq.html#9) says it usually, but not always, refers to Interstates.
Quote from: texaskdog on April 14, 2014, 09:40:48 AM
You know, I always thought di stood for digits not interstates.
I used to as well... but then someone mentioned '2dus' and I knew then that 'di' was 'x digit Interstate'. But what is a state route? 2dsr? Sounds odd.
No. di stands for digit. Digit Interstate is for anal roadgeeks.
Digit interstate seems to be the convention here. I don't know that 2/3dsr would ever come up. Are there states that use 3 digit routes as children of 1/2 digit routes?
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
Digit interstate seems to be the convention here. I don't know that 2/3dsr would ever come up. Are there states that use 3 digit routes as children of 1/2 digit routes?
MA does for 203. These types of routes are not very common, though.
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
Digit interstate seems to be the convention here. I don't know that 2/3dsr would ever come up. Are there states that use 3 digit routes as children of 1/2 digit routes?
Washington. Don't think that there are any others (save for special cases), but in several states, 3dsr's are definitely the more minor routes, even if they aren't numbered as spurs of parents.
Quote from: Zeffy on April 14, 2014, 02:34:18 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on April 14, 2014, 09:40:48 AM
You know, I always thought di stood for digits not interstates.
I used to as well... but then someone mentioned '2dus' and I knew then that 'di' was 'x digit Interstate'. But what is a state route? 2dsr? Sounds odd.
The way I learned it was "2dI" with the I capitalized for "two-digit Interstate" along with "2dUS" for "two-digit US Highway". In referring to Michigan, I will use "1dM", "2dM" and "3dM" to refer to the state highways with the appropriate number of digits, usually in the context of discussing signage. (3dMs almost never have any connection to another highway, although M-120, M-121, M-227 and M-331 were formerly parts of M-20, M-21, US 27 and US 131, respectively and M-231 is supposed to be part of US 31 someday.)
Another reason a lot of us believe "3di" means "3-digit Interstate" is that's what Kurumi's site (http://kurumi.com/roads/3di/index.html) taught us many years ago.
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 14, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
The way I learned it was "2dI" with the I capitalized for "two-digit Interstate" along with "2dUS" for "two-digit US Highway". In referring to Michigan, I will use "1dM", "2dM" and "3dM" to refer to the state highways with the appropriate number of digits, usually in the context of discussing signage. (3dMs almost never have any connection to another highway, although M-120, M-121, M-227 and M-331 were formerly parts of M-20, M-21, US 27 and US 131, respectively and M-231 is supposed to be part of US 31 someday.)
Not to mention that there are some 3-digit highways in Michigan that are not former alignments of their 2-digit equivalent, and may not even touch them, but they're still implied "child" routes, such as M-179 and M-199.
Some of Hawaii's 3-digit routes are related to its 2-digit routes, but they tend to be multiply the 2-digit route by 10 (e.g. 310 is related to 31, and 360 is related to 36).
It's really weird that there don't appear to be any topics on AARoads specifically about 3 digit state highways.
2dsr and 3dsr are indeed proper terminology. It's useful in NJ, where most of the 3dsr are minor and most of the 2dsr are major.
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
Digit interstate seems to be the convention here. I don't know that 2/3dsr would ever come up. Are there states that use 3 digit routes as children of 1/2 digit routes?
I thought this was common. It's at least not uncommon to have a 3DSR child of a higher-species parent. Examples:
K(S)-150 (Child of US 50)
MO 150 (Another child of US 50)
MO 249 (Child of I-49)
MO 370 (Child of I-70)
IL 255 (Numerically, this is a child of I-55, although this example is debatable, since it is really a state-route continuation of I-255, and 255 only intersects with I-55 when it is in Interstate form.)
Kansas has a couple of would-be children that never quite meet the parent route (and I'm not sure whether they ever did, so I'm not sure they count as orphans). K-177 is close to meeting US 77 at both ends, and is only one connecting route away in both cases. K-196's eastern terminus is at K-254, which connects to K-96 and is (of course) a child of US 54.
Quote from: Molandfreak on April 14, 2014, 04:09:38 PM
No. di stands for digit. Digit Interstate is for anal roadgeeks.
Wrong.
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 14, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
The way I learned it was "2dI" with the I capitalized for "two-digit Interstate" along with "2dUS" for "two-digit US Highway".
Right. Sorta. I never capitalized the I or US.
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
Digit interstate seems to be the convention here. I don't know that 2/3dsr would ever come up. Are there states that use 3 digit routes as children of 1/2 digit routes?
Indiana does (or used to more); the recently-deleted 443, 126, and 526 in West Lafayette are examples.
Not every 3-digit route in Indiana is a child route this way necessarily though.
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2014, 11:31:46 PMQuote from: bulldog1979 on April 14, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
The way I learned it was "2dI" with the I capitalized for "two-digit Interstate" along with "2dUS" for "two-digit US Highway".
Right. Sorta. I never capitalized the I or US.
If you must capitalize, then at least make it consistent, like 2DI, 3DI, 2DUS and 3DUS.
Quote from: Henry on April 15, 2014, 02:31:19 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on April 14, 2014, 11:31:46 PMQuote from: bulldog1979 on April 14, 2014, 08:03:58 PM
The way I learned it was "2dI" with the I capitalized for "two-digit Interstate" along with "2dUS" for "two-digit US Highway".
Right. Sorta. I never capitalized the I or US.
If you must capitalize, then at least make it consistent, like 2DI, 3DI, 2DUS and 3DUS.
If you look at the way bulldog spelled out the terms, it is in fact consistent, just in a different way. (That said, I prefer the all lowercase versions.)
Quote from: 1 on April 14, 2014, 06:26:42 PM
MA does for 203. These types of routes are not very common, though.
rare in California as well. 107 is the old alignment of 7, and at one point (1940-1957) served as a child route, branching off the parent.
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
Digit interstate seems to be the convention here. I don't know that 2/3dsr would ever come up. Are there states that use 3 digit routes as children of 1/2 digit routes?
As Steve Alps said, NJ does, although not always, and it's not perfectly consistent with Interstate highway rules.
47 has 147 & 347. Interstate Highway rules would say they're both spurs off of 47. 147 meets that definition, but 347 is simply a loop (or really, a shortcut) which meets up with 47 on both ends.
68 has nothing to do with 168.
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2014, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 10, 2014, 02:00:24 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2014, 12:41:11 PM
It's an artifact of the FHWA's insistence that 3di loop exit numbering starts at the south end of the loop. I-465 should start at I-65 near Zionsville and go all the way around east, south, west, and then back north to what is currently I-865. That would remove any confusion without the added 3di.
that implies a Q-shaped interstate. I would not want to be the one tasked to design quickly comprehensible signage at the 465-465-465 junction.
Heading north:
TO {65} NORTH {465} EAST
Chicago
Heading west:
TO {65} NORTH {465} SOUTH
Chicago
Heading east:
{465} EAST {465} SOUTH
Not too difficult. I-865 is unnecessary.
Sorry to chime in to the discussion on the late side, but there's a similar situation near me, with the exception that the interstate isn't circumferential.
I-270 runs from Frederick, MD to Bethesda, MD. It used to be I-70S. I-70S ran into the Beltway heading east and a spur route known as I-270 connected I-70S to the Beltway going in the other direction towards Fairfax County, VA.
When interstate suffixes were dropped I-70S was renamed I-270. The old I-270 spur became what is known as the I-270 SPUR. Northbound it is signed as I-270 North (sometimes with a "TO" designation. Southbound it is signed as TO I-495 SOUTH (sometimes with a "SPUR I-270" designation as well. I-270 spur even has one exit between the I-270 mainline and the Beltway at Democracy Blvd.
It seems that Indiana could've done something similar as you mentioned above. Control cities for the beltway would also help.
In the UK, we've always used 3da and 4da as short hand for three- and four-digit A roads, despite no child/parent link.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on April 15, 2014, 02:52:35 PM
Quote from: 1 on April 14, 2014, 06:26:42 PM
MA does for 203. These types of routes are not very common, though.
rare in California as well. 107 is the old alignment of 7, and at one point (1940-1957) served as a child route, branching off the parent.
330, 242, and 371 are the only others in California that derive their numbering from the former routes that they took over (though 242 is somewhat debatable as it also fits a relative geographic cluster that includes 237, 238, unbuilt 239 and the 1965-1968 241.)
Are there any true "parent route" type things other than 330 (which, until the 210/30 switchover, did connect to 30)?
Quote from: texaskdog on April 10, 2014, 08:31:20 AM
Is it just me, or does it drive any of you crazy when a 3di is longer than it's 2di, such as US 191 & US 91?
Back to the original post, many years ago (as most here already know), most of US 91 was decommissioned, particularly in California (where it is now either CA 91 or I-15) and Nevada. The current US 91 is currently a shell of its former self. Meanwhile, US 191 has been rerouted and lengthened many times. One reason it has lasted so libg is that it hasn't been mostly replaced by an interstate.
The concept of 3DUs has always been different than the philosophy of 3DIs. 3DUs simply branch off from the mother route (or another 3DU sibling) and go off in whatever directions they go. They were never intended to be alternate spur or bypass routes in metro areas.
The way that much of the US route system has been displaced by interstates has upset the cart a bit with naming conventions. That is unavoidable.
"3di" = 3-digit interstate. (That term and "volleyball interchange" are my neologisms that for better or worse have found traction.)
Quote from: texaskdog on April 10, 2014, 08:31:20 AM
Is it just me, or does it drive any of you crazy when a 3di is longer than it's 2di, such as US 191 & US 91?
I hate when the parent 2dus dies and poor 3dus left (US166, among others). Or Adopted 3dus with no parents (US400 and US412). Or perhaps 412 has a long distance relationship with its parent, they just don't meet (like US 311)
iPhone
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 15, 2014, 03:07:08 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
Digit interstate seems to be the convention here. I don't know that 2/3dsr would ever come up. Are there states that use 3 digit routes as children of 1/2 digit routes?
As Steve Alps said, NJ does, although not always, and it's not perfectly consistent with Interstate highway rules.
47 has 147 & 347. Interstate Highway rules would say they're both spurs off of 47. 147 meets that definition, but 347 is simply a loop (or really, a shortcut) which meets up with 47 on both ends.
68 has nothing to do with 168.
Delaware has 41 with 141 as its child. Otherwise, all other 3 digit routes were carried over from other states.
Quote from: stridentweasel on April 14, 2014, 09:09:45 PM
Quote from: vdeane on April 14, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
Digit interstate seems to be the convention here. I don't know that 2/3dsr would ever come up. Are there states that use 3 digit routes as children of 1/2 digit routes?
I thought this was common. It's at least not uncommon to have a 3DSR child of a higher-species parent.
Similarly, Oklahoma has lettered spur routes of US routes, although none exist of interstates (SH-40A is numbered after the long-since-renumbered SH-40, and SH-44A is numbered after the extant SH-44).
US 165 traverses two major cities in Louisiana and almost reaches a third. US 65 passes through the people- and money-poor delta en route to Natchez.
There's no excuse for US 400, 412 and 425 (which well could have been US 265).
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 21, 2014, 03:02:48 PM
The concept of 3DUs has always been different than the philosophy of 3DIs. 3DUs simply branch off from the mother route (or another 3DU sibling) and go off in whatever directions they go. They were never intended to be alternate spur or bypass routes in metro areas.
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on June 21, 2014, 11:32:52 PM
I hate when the parent 2dus dies and poor 3dus left (US166, among others). Or Adopted 3dus with no parents (US400 and US412). Or perhaps 412 has a long distance relationship with its parent, they just don't meet (like US 311)
Quote from: jbnv on June 22, 2014, 06:43:51 PM
There's no excuse for US 400, 412 and 425 (which well could have been US 265).
I think the key to "letting it go" is to realize the entire 3dus system is pretty much arbitrary and useless.
Nobody would ever get on US191 and keep driving, hoping they would eventually hit US91. The roads had little relationship to each other beyond intersecting at some arbitrary point. 2dus routes are not "parents" and 3dus routes are not "children".
It would have been much better if there was an sensible system to the 3dus routes, say 1XX routes on the east coast and 9xx routes on the west. As it stands, the extra digit is meaningless to the traveller, so it might as well be something random like 425.
Quote from: flowmotion on June 27, 2014, 04:03:23 AM
I think the key to "letting it go" is to realize the entire 3dus system is pretty much arbitrary and useless. Nobody would ever get on US191 and keep driving, hoping they would eventually hit US91. The roads had little relationship to each other beyond intersecting at some arbitrary point. 2dus routes are not "parents" and 3dus routes are not "children".
Ditto 71 and 171, which have never actually intersected. The only benefit of the 3dus numbers is having them conform loosely to the grid (190 is south of 280 is south of 270, etc.).
Quote from: flowmotion on June 27, 2014, 04:03:23 AM
It would have been much better if there was an sensible system to the 3dus routes, say 1XX routes on the east coast and 9xx routes on the west. As it stands, the extra digit is meaningless to the traveller, so it might as well be something random like 425.
You mean a regional numbering a la Florida? Would have made sense. The first digit of a 3dus could have matched the ZIP code regions (with 0zzzz and 1zzzz sharing 1uu).
I'd give US 138 a pass because there was in fact a route called US 38. Not so with I-238, especially now that the Embarcadero Freeway no longer exists, and I-480 could've been recycled in the same way that I-880 was. And there has never been an I-38!
Quote from: jbnv on June 27, 2014, 11:49:32 AM
Quote from: flowmotion on June 27, 2014, 04:03:23 AM
I think the key to "letting it go" is to realize the entire 3dus system is pretty much arbitrary and useless. Nobody would ever get on US191 and keep driving, hoping they would eventually hit US91. The roads had little relationship to each other beyond intersecting at some arbitrary point. 2dus routes are not "parents" and 3dus routes are not "children".
Ditto 71 and 171, which have never actually intersected. The only benefit of the 3dus numbers is having them conform loosely to the grid (190 is south of 280 is south of 270, etc.).
Actually it is pretty likely that at one time US 171 followed US 79 & US 80 from it's current terminus to downtown Shreveport to meet US 71. I think the us-ends website may describe that scenario. And I wish I could find he black and white picture I've seen somewhere online that showed those three shields on Texas St. downtown.
But yes, I definitely agree the 3dus doesn't do much anymore. Many are not even good alternate routes to their "parent." US 371 is one of many that has an awful through routing.
OK 266 is a spur off of OK 66 (it has been recently extended to I-44)
OK 351 is a spur off of OK 51
OK 364 is related to US 64
Former OK 159 was a spur off of US 59
OK 131 is a spur off of OK 31
OK 128 is an extension of AR 28
OK 199 is a spur off of OK 99