I thought of this one the other day at the UT/CO border of I-70:
*NOT* including major river crossings or changes in the aesthetics or characteristics of the freeway/highway, what immediate changes can be seen when crossing over state lines on certain highways? In other words, if there were no signs indicating the state line, would there be enough evidence otherwise to hint that you crossed over into another state?
I-75 Ohio to Michigan: Toledo and it's built up community of houses ends on the state line. Once you cross into Michigan, it's immediately all farmland and marshland along the Lake Erie shoreline area.
I-70 Colorado to Utah: In Colorado, it's all rocks and hills in close proximity to the highway. As soon as you cross into Utah, the land opens up to high-desert flatlands and there is hardly any hills or other obstructions to block your view of the Beehive State.
Most Interstate borders with Nevada: Casinos and civilization in Nevada, while across the state line, the greenery rapidly changes to desert!
Other noticeable differences at state lines?
On the VT-QC line it always astounds me how quick the transition is from rugged, Appalachian Vermont to flat Québec farmland. Vermont feels very defensible at this point, should there ever emerge another border skirmish.
I always noticed that in Wyoming, which is odd given that all of its boundaries are arbitrary-
US 287 south towards Fort Collins is just high desert and as soon as you enter Colorado you're in trees.
I-80 east towards Kimball is the same way- it's nothing, and then as soon as you cross into Nebraska you're in bluff country.
US 85 north towards Lead, you're in high plains with mountains nearby, and then as soon as you enter South Dakota you're actually in the hills.
US 30 west towards Montpelier- you're out in Wyoming's Star Valley, and then as soon as you enter Idaho the road starts climbing.
The Oklahoma—Missouri border kind of meets this category. When you cross the Spring River (still about 10 miles inside of Oklahoma), the terrain gets noticeably hillier and rockier, like the Ozarks of southwestern Missouri.
Texas tends to feel a lot flatter and sparser when you cross the line from Oklahoma, as well.
MA/NH 125: The restaurants are all on the Massachusetts side, and the other stores are all on the New Hampshire side.
When you cross into Quebec from Ontario, all of a sudden everybody speaks French, it's bizarre. :)
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 05, 2014, 03:28:12 PM
When you cross into Quebec from Ontario, all of a sudden everybody speaks French, it's bizarre. :)
And if they speak English at all, it's with a thick accent. :spin:
I don't really know of any examples in the US or Canada, so more international content! :sombrero:
https://www.google.com/maps/@16.2365352,120.5130268,10z
Near the center of the map (near Rosario) is a highway boundary between La Union and Benguet. La Union is on the left, the generally flat area, and Benguet on the right has more mountainous terrain. Going east, first you have generally flat land, you might notice it rising a little, then once you cross the boundary you're on the side of a mountain. :) It actually surprised me the last time I was there, because it's something I don't usually notice.
La Union side:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.panoramio.com%2Fphotos%2Fmedium%2F69017928.jpg&hash=60a27ffe47bf27320cae97591df0f87b283b98fa)
Benguet side:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8355/8437134247_50bf18a5d0_z.jpg)
Not quite the same thing, but when you enter the city of Baltimore via surface street, you see a marked decrease in the quality of the pavement (and since there are very few welcome signs, that is often the only way you know you entered Baltimore).
How about municipal lines?
You can always tell when you enter the city of Chicago by surface streets due to the differences in lampposts and traffic lights.
Examples:
Looking away from Chicago: Lake @ Austin, west (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.888001,-87.774902&spn=0.004641,0.010568&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.888001,-87.774902&panoid=sEqp7PMZvwJQXfGBAh5OOw&cbp=12,268.26,,0,1.55)
Looking toward Chicago: Lake @ Austin, east (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.888001,-87.774902&spn=0.004641,0.010568&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=41.888001,-87.774902&panoid=sEqp7PMZvwJQXfGBAh5OOw&cbp=12,98.68,,0,8.31)
Well it's not a state line (that's back a few miles), but you sure can tell when you pass from Smoky Mt Nat Park into Gatlinburg. Ugg.
Gas prices :-D
Ex: Illinois vs Iowa, a 40-60 cents difference
I'm sure all the bordering states have lower prices than Illinois due to the taxes, but Iowa always seems to be the most dramatic
Quote from: corco on May 05, 2014, 02:23:00 PM
US 85 north towards Lead, you're in high plains with mountains nearby, and then as soon as you enter South Dakota you're actually in the hills.
I live close to the WY/SD border, and whenever I go across it, even though the landscape is remarkably similar, it just FEELS different.
Another landscape one is the transition from ranchland to farmland at the ND border on US 85.
Other than that, I can't really think of things that change at my local borders, except for that Wyoming uses Clearview and we don't.
Quote from: 1 on May 05, 2014, 03:22:44 PM
MA/NH 125: The restaurants are all on the Massachusetts side, and the other stores are all on the New Hampshire side.
I'll go ya one better: the Pheasant Lane Mall, on US-3. The parking lot is in Massachusetts (6.25% sales tax) and the stores are all in New Hampshire (no sales tax).
It has struck me how some (but not all) borders out west are... extremely non border-ly. I am, in the northeast, used to crossing a state line feeling like you have indeed crossed a meaningful line. Either because the towns on either side of the line are very different in appearance, because the border is located at a river or ridge... or, at the very least, the location of the border is among hills and trees so you can still mentally pretend some thing which arbitrarily happens to be at the line is what marks it.
But then, cross from Kansas in to Colorado on I-70... or worse, from Nevada into California on I-15... and it's just weird how if it weren't for the sign there isn't even any natural landmark you could remember as the location of the line. The border just cuts invisibly through wide open space without anything to mentally anchor it down, utterly untraceable without survey equipment and a knowledge of how it is defined.
It's pretty freaky looking off to your right and left, being able to see for miles without obstruction, knowing that the border goes straight off to the horizon through there somewhere but not being able to tell exactly where. I instinctively feel like, shouldn't there be a fence, a wall, a dotted line painted on the ground... something to visibly mark where the border is?
When you cross from Louisiana into Texas, the percentage of pickups on the road more than doubles.
Quote from: Brian556 on May 05, 2014, 11:11:50 PM
When you cross from Louisiana into Texas, the percentage of pickups on the road more than doubles.
Ha, never really noticed that! :sombrero: I was going to say that on it feels like immediately crossing into NM from TX on I-40, the land gets more interesting in terms of elevation. What I mean by that is that in Texas it's flat prairie for miles around, but -BAM- Right as you enter New Mexico, you see hills and plateaus in the distance.
Quote from: Duke87 on May 05, 2014, 10:45:43 PM
It's pretty freaky looking off to your right and left, being able to see for miles without obstruction, knowing that the border goes straight off to the horizon through there somewhere but not being able to tell exactly where. I instinctively feel like, shouldn't there be a fence, a wall, a dotted line painted on the ground... something to visibly mark where the border is?
A lot of the time there's a fence, as ranches do not normally cross state lines.
Quote from: ET21 on May 05, 2014, 09:10:21 PM
Gas prices :-D
Ex: Illinois vs Iowa, a 40-60 cents difference
I'm sure all the bordering states have lower prices than Illinois due to the taxes, but Iowa always seems to be the most dramatic
Roads into New Jersey from New York are littered with gasoline alleys, much as roads into New Hampshire from Massachusetts usually have a liquor store very close in.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 06, 2014, 12:38:57 AM
Quote from: ET21 on May 05, 2014, 09:10:21 PM
Gas prices :-D
Ex: Illinois vs Iowa, a 40-60 cents difference
I'm sure all the bordering states have lower prices than Illinois due to the taxes, but Iowa always seems to be the most dramatic
Roads into New Jersey from New York are littered with gasoline alleys, much as roads into New Hampshire from Massachusetts usually have a liquor store very close in.
The Bellingham Costco just south of the WA/BC border is regularly filled to the brim with Canadians searching for the best bang for their buck.
As for my own shocking border crossing, probably my first time crossing
into BC from Washington. I was appalled by how horribly they treated our beloved I-5...having it just end in some southern Vancouver suburb.
Quote from: Duke87 on May 05, 2014, 10:45:43 PMBut then, cross from Kansas in to Colorado on I-70... or worse, from Nevada into California on I-15... and it's just weird how if it weren't for the sign there isn't even any natural landmark you could remember as the location of the line. The border just cuts invisibly through wide open space without anything to mentally anchor it down, utterly untraceable without survey equipment and a knowledge of how it is defined.
Boundaries out west are indeed rarely defined by sharp changes in landscape, but in addition to the features others have already pointed out, such as fences, there is typically also border monumentation that can be seen if you stop. There is a survey marker (needle inside a hole) at the Kansas-Colorado border on US 50. Further south on the same border, there are two concrete railroad monuments (painted white and stencilled "Kansas" and "Colorado" on the appropriate sides) at US 160, where a railroad crossing straddles the border.
At border crossings where both states have been surveyed using the PLSS grid, state highways crossing the border invariably have "grid snap" sections (usually a S-curve) since in each state they tend to be located on top of (or at a fixed lateral offset from) section lines, which usually do not line up across borders. At rural crossings you can usually tell the border is approaching when you see the sign forest for traffic coming in the other direction (Welcome, please wear your seatbelt, don't litter, call such and such a number for telecopier permits, we enforce brand inspection laws, saddle mounts must stop at the port of entry, etc.).
Going from NJ to PA on any major road you notice the bridges on the PA side have large billboards facing westbound traffic. I think there is a law against these in new jersey.
Also when crossing into PA from any truss bridge in trenton, one of the first things you see are tobacconists, due to the lower taxes on the product in PA.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on May 06, 2014, 05:29:43 AM
Going from NJ to PA on any major road you notice the bridges on the PA side have large billboards facing westbound traffic. I think there is a law against these in new jersey.
Home rule. For whatever reason, some towns in NJ don't permit these large billboards at the bridges.
The town one is in at the NJ base of the Delaware Memorial Bridge into NJ *does* allow these billboards, and there are 3 or 4 of them to great you as you enter/leave NJ.
On I-95, when you cross from NC to SC, the surroundings become much swampier, and the vegetation much closer to the road. You also see the glut of Fireworks stands...
Every crossing into Missouri I've encountered will inevitably have a fireworks stand, sometimes right at the border.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 05, 2014, 03:28:12 PM
When you cross into Quebec from Ontario, all of a sudden everybody speaks French, it's bizarre. :)
Also when you cross from Spain into France :-D. And all the liquor and tobacco stores are in the Spanish side of the border (lower taxes than in France).
I also forgot I-77 at the NC/VA border:
Virginia is one big mountain at the border, but as soon as you enter NC, the terrain flattens and much smaller hills immediately take over. The last time I drove it, I literally "coasted" in my car out of gear on the final 7 miles in Virginia and coasted right into the NC Welcome Center.
101 on the Oregon-California border used to have a weather pattern where rain was on the Oregon side and sun on the California side show up often. Today the real difference is gas prices. Oregon is in the high $3's while California is in the mid $4's in this area. Other differences are in signage, California 101 has narrower shoulders, the fruit inspection stand on the California side and seeing CHP units. Then you also see San Francisco finally show up as a control city!
Rick
Quote from: DandyDan on May 06, 2014, 07:13:23 AM
Every crossing into Missouri I've encountered will inevitably have a fireworks stand, sometimes right at the border.
Many entries into Indiana are also marked by fireworks stands, as the laws on purchase have gotten less restrictive than the neighboring states. This pic, stolen from GSV, is just south of the Michigan line. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2Fdhfptg.png&hash=4966f1da45faf0ed1e23e17c6b50635b2275bf15)
At one point, buyers of the "good stuff" in Indiana had to sign a form stating they were buying the merchandise for transport out of the state. I guess that was to mollify the safety objections. ("We won't be blowing up
Hoosier kids.") Of course, that stopped almost no one from lying on the form. They have since done away with that silly provision.
Quote from: theline on May 06, 2014, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on May 06, 2014, 07:13:23 AM
Every crossing into Missouri I've encountered will inevitably have a fireworks stand, sometimes right at the border.
Many entries into Indiana are also marked by fireworks stands, as the laws on purchase have gotten less restrictive than the neighboring states.
At one point, buyers of the "good stuff" in Indiana had to sign a form stating they were buying the merchandise for transport out of the state. I guess that was to mollify the safety objections. ("We won't be blowing up Hoosier kids.") Of course, that stopped almost no one from lying on the form. They have since done away with that silly provision.
People actually told the truth on those forms? :rofl:
I remember having to fill them out, but of course, I was taking them to use in Illinois. :bigass:
The IL-IN border is littered with fireworks shops and stands, and the state police and Chicago police have been known to do stakeouts of the ones nearest the border.
Quote from: theline on May 06, 2014, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on May 06, 2014, 07:13:23 AM
Every crossing into Missouri I've encountered will inevitably have a fireworks stand, sometimes right at the border.
Many entries into Indiana are also marked by fireworks stands, as the laws on purchase have gotten less restrictive than the neighboring states. This pic, stolen from GSV, is just south of the Michigan line. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2Fdhfptg.png&hash=4966f1da45faf0ed1e23e17c6b50635b2275bf15)
At one point, buyers of the "good stuff" in Indiana had to sign a form stating they were buying the merchandise for transport out of the state. I guess that was to mollify the safety objections. ("We won't be blowing up Hoosier kids.") Of course, that stopped almost no one from lying on the form. They have since done away with that silly provision.
Stories swirl occasionally about Mass. cops following folks out of NH border-area liquor stores and nabbing them for importing liquor without paying Mass. liquor tax, but it's rare because it's bad for interstate relations and is mostly pointless considering that the 20%+ discount on hooch will never stop luring folks over to stock up.
Quote from: jake on May 06, 2014, 12:53:15 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 06, 2014, 12:38:57 AM
Quote from: ET21 on May 05, 2014, 09:10:21 PM
Gas prices :-D
Ex: Illinois vs Iowa, a 40-60 cents difference
I'm sure all the bordering states have lower prices than Illinois due to the taxes, but Iowa always seems to be the most dramatic
Roads into New Jersey from New York are littered with gasoline alleys, much as roads into New Hampshire from Massachusetts usually have a liquor store very close in.
The Bellingham Costco just south of the WA/BC border is regularly filled to the brim with Canadians searching for the best bang for their buck.
As for my own shocking border crossing, probably my first time crossing into BC from Washington. I was appalled by how horribly they treated our beloved I-5...having it just end in some southern Vancouver suburb.
I-5 ends at the 49th parallel. It's BC 99 that ends at a city street in South Van.
Quote from: Brandon on May 06, 2014, 11:48:05 AM
Quote from: theline on May 06, 2014, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on May 06, 2014, 07:13:23 AM
Every crossing into Missouri I've encountered will inevitably have a fireworks stand, sometimes right at the border.
Many entries into Indiana are also marked by fireworks stands, as the laws on purchase have gotten less restrictive than the neighboring states.
At one point, buyers of the "good stuff" in Indiana had to sign a form stating they were buying the merchandise for transport out of the state. I guess that was to mollify the safety objections. ("We won't be blowing up Hoosier kids.") Of course, that stopped almost no one from lying on the form. They have since done away with that silly provision.
People actually told the truth on those forms? :rofl:
I remember having to fill them out, but of course, I was taking them to use in Illinois. :bigass:
The IL-IN border is littered with fireworks shops and stands, and the state police and Chicago police have been known to do stakeouts of the ones nearest the border.
In a similar vein, apparently undercover Utah cops do stakeouts at the Evanston Walmart to catch people buying large amounts of liquor.
One thing I noticed about leaving Oklahoma to the east is that the constantly blowing wind stops at the border.
Something I notice when I leave Indiana and enter a gas station: beer in the coolers. Also, the ability to purchase beer (or any alcohol) on that most holy of days, Sunday. Hell, I was reminded of our wonderful laws to preserve the specialness of that first day of the week when driving up I-164 yesterday to see a billboard for a Kentucky car dealership announcing that it was open on Sundays.
Of the geographic changes I've seen before, heading north on either I-24 or I-65 out of Tennessee into Kentucky the landscape starts to flatten out a little (and by flatten out I mean rolling hills but more pastures and fields.)
Quote from: tdindy88 on May 06, 2014, 06:08:58 PM
...the ability to purchase beer (or any alcohol) on that most holy of days, Sunday. Hell, I was reminded of our wonderful laws to preserve the specialness of that first day of the week when driving up I-164 yesterday to see a billboard for a Kentucky car dealership announcing that it was open on Sundays.
That surprised me on my first visit to the south, Georgia to be exact. The whole concept of things being closed on Sundays made zero sense to me. Of course now, I understand, but it still bugs me.
For municipal boundaries, going from New York City (Queens) into Nassau County on a main road, look at the traffic signals. They shift from yellow signal heads on guy-supported mast arms to green signal heads on span wire (formerly, NYC used 8" lenses exclusively except for arrows, and Nassau Co. used 12". But I think NYC has been slowly switching to 12" lenses) I once wowed a car service driver with this factoid. But he noticed something I didn't; that the NYC signals were powered by underground conduits while Nassau Co. used overhead wire.
Note that some residential neighborhoods in Nassau Co. do have 8" yellow signal heads, but they're usually mounted on a solid "bent" mast arm without guys. (Insert joke about girls' night out here :-/)
One difference that used to be more noticeable: gas stations. For example, when driving from Ohio to Michigan, the Sohio stations suddenly became Boron, and the Amoco stations now read "Standard" in the same torch-oval logo. Similarly, when driving from Tennessee to either Georgia or Kentucky, the Chevron stations turned into "Standard" on the same logo, though I think the smaller logos like those on the pumps themselves read Chevron regardless. Also, though I'm not sure about this one, but I only remember seeing Tenneco stations in Tennessee. I'm sure there were lots of others.
Of course, with Sohio and Amoco now both gobbled by the BP banner, and the Standard logo vanished from the Chevron stations, (they reportedly keep at least one station per state branded Standard (Oil) to maintain the trademark, and the Sohio banner still hangs on marine fuel stations), and other oil companies played similar musical chairs stations over the years, this difference is probably not as evident as it used to be.
In Richmond, Indiana, at the interchange between I-70 and US-40 (the interchange straddles the state line!) there is a fireworks store in Indiana with its parking lot in Ohio. In fact, the store is accessible only through Ohio:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Richmond,+IN/@39.8320863,-84.8137585,528m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x883ff88c0dc58135:0xb591e05c2e82d34 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Richmond,+IN/@39.8320863,-84.8137585,528m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x883ff88c0dc58135:0xb591e05c2e82d34)
I don't think Google's state line is quite accurate. AFAIK the actual state line is just east of the front wall of the store. The front wall of the store may even be the state line.
The boundary-straddling interchange has Indiana exit numbers
I think this was mentioned in some gas/gas station related thread months ago, but back in the day growing up, I knew I was in Ohio (other than signs, of course) when Boron stations became Sohio stations, but with the exact same looking sign. Though that wouldn't help pinpoint the exact border.
Also, though I think it goes against the spirit of the OP (but I'm not sure) - from the same time period with the same trips - once in Ohio (I-76 both on the turnpike & the free section to Akron) the freeway lighting used curved arms as opposed to the angled ones I was used to in PA. (Of course, as I got older and traveled more I realized that wasn't true everywhere in either state)
Also, and this might go against the criteria, once you cross into WV, you'll notice all the doghouse signals have the top red over the non-arrow heads, instead of centered between the arrows and "balls".
Possibly more to the idea of the thread, sometimes if you're on a road and you notice all the utilities (electric, phone, and cable) end at one property, and then the next property is the end of the line for utilities coming the other direction (sometimes with distinct construction characteristics), that might indicate you've crossed a state line (especially if you are expecting to somewhere in that area).
(NOTE: Someone else mentioned the Boron/Sohio example after I typed it but before I posted)
In New York, you can tell which side of I-81 you're on based on whether the local grocery store is Wegmans or Hannaford.
Quote from: theline on May 06, 2014, 11:38:55 AM
Quote from: DandyDan on May 06, 2014, 07:13:23 AM
Every crossing into Missouri I've encountered will inevitably have a fireworks stand, sometimes right at the border.
Many entries into Indiana are also marked by fireworks stands, as the laws on purchase have gotten less restrictive than the neighboring states. This pic, stolen from GSV, is just south of the Michigan line. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi61.tinypic.com%2Fdhfptg.png&hash=4966f1da45faf0ed1e23e17c6b50635b2275bf15)
At one point, buyers of the "good stuff" in Indiana had to sign a form stating they were buying the merchandise for transport out of the state. I guess that was to mollify the safety objections. ("We won't be blowing up Hoosier kids.") Of course, that stopped almost no one from lying on the form. They have since done away with that silly provision.
Also entries into Pennsylvania from New York.
Quote from: jake on May 06, 2014, 06:16:00 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on May 06, 2014, 06:08:58 PM
...the ability to purchase beer (or any alcohol) on that most holy of days, Sunday. Hell, I was reminded of our wonderful laws to preserve the specialness of that first day of the week when driving up I-164 yesterday to see a billboard for a Kentucky car dealership announcing that it was open on Sundays.
That surprised me on my first visit to the south, Georgia to be exact. The whole concept of things being closed on Sundays made zero sense to me. Of course now, I understand, but it still bugs me.
Massachusetts has only had retail booze on Sunday since 2004, after noted teetotaler Mitt Romney signed the Sunday allowance into law.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 05, 2014, 03:28:12 PM
When you cross into Quebec from Ontario, all of a sudden everybody speaks French, it's bizarre. :)
Unfortunately, terms like "resurfacing", "rehabilitation", and "structurally sound" don't appear to have French equivalents. ;)
Wyoming permits the sale of fireworks, Colorado does not. I wonder why four fireworks stands decided to locate so far from their core Cheyenne market at the first exit from Colorado... :P
Inverted, Colorado allows the sale of retail marijuana while Wyoming does not. One can only wonder how soon it will be before someone opens a pot shop at the first exit coming from Wyoming.
Quote from: Zmapper on May 07, 2014, 12:28:28 AM
Wyoming permits the sale of fireworks, Colorado does not. I wonder why four fireworks stands decided to locate so far from their core Cheyenne market at the first exit from Colorado... :P
Inverted, Colorado allows the sale of retail marijuana while Wyoming does not. One can only wonder how soon it will be before someone opens a pot shop at the first exit coming from Wyoming.
And then the customers get picked up when they cross the border.
Quote from: Zmapper on May 07, 2014, 12:28:28 AM
Wyoming permits the sale of fireworks, Colorado does not. I wonder why four fireworks stands decided to locate so far from their core Cheyenne market at the first exit from Colorado... :P
Same can be said when one crosses from NJ or DE into PA. :-)
There are a number of liquor stores close to PA's state line in NJ (and I assume, DE, MD, WV, OH & NY), due to PA's pricey and limited selection of liquors and wines, along with their issue being closed on Sundays, Holidays, and non-Holidays (here's looking at you, Election Day). Even with the toll, some people living close to NJ will save money by stocking up in NJ. They'll buy gas while in the state too...which brings up my second difference:
Gas prices (and Full Serve Gas) in NJ. With PA's recent tax but-not-a-gasoline-tax increase, gas can be a 40 cents cheaper or more in NJ compared to PA. Generally, there's about a 10 - 20 cent difference going from NJ to DE. I think purchasing in NJ before entering the NY & Conn areas results in a significant savings as well.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 07, 2014, 01:50:31 PM
There are a number of liquor stores close to PA's state line in NJ (and I assume, DE, MD, WV, OH & NY), due to PA's pricey and limited selection of liquors and wines, along with their issue being closed on Sundays, Holidays, and non-Holidays (here's looking at you, Election Day). Even with the toll, some people living close to NJ will save money by stocking up in NJ.
You see that crossing from DE to MD as well.
The traditional sign that you have just entered Louisiana from another state is the marked drop in pavement quality. We seem to be abandoning this tradition. Coming in from Texas, the new indicator is the miniature city of truck stops with video poker casinos at the first Louisiana exit.
Quote from: tdindy88 on May 06, 2014, 06:08:58 PM
Something I notice when I leave Indiana and enter a gas station: beer in the coolers. Also, the ability to purchase beer (or any alcohol) on that most holy of days, Sunday. Hell, I was reminded of our wonderful laws to preserve the specialness of that first day of the week when driving up I-164 yesterday to see a billboard for a Kentucky car dealership announcing that it was open on Sundays.
Connecticut recently got rid of their law banning the sale of Alcohol on Sundays. That said, there never were any liquor stores I saw conveniently located right over the border in NY, MA, or RI. When I lived in Connecticut, despite there being a liquor store in New York that was 10 minutes away, going there to buy alcohol on Sunday was rare. We usually just planned accordingly and purchased it on any of the other six days of the week.
I do remember, though, that there was a time when New York did not take part in Powerball lottery but Connecticut did. Whenever the jackpot got really high, you would see people lining up at the gas stations on the Merritt just over the state line to buy Powerball tickets.
On I-90 going from Washington to Idaho, you go from rolling, usually dry plains to lush mountains.
On I-69 from Indiana to Michigan, lush fertile plains to what looks to be a disaster areas (and I'm not talking about Clearview). I'm not sure I have ever seen anything growing in the fields in Michigan along I-69.
In Texas all hard liquor stores are closed on Sundays and close at 9 p.m. every night the rest of the week, but you can buy beer and wine after noon on Sundays – and also until 1 a.m. on Saturday nights; the cutoff is midnight the rest of the week.
Quote from: Road Hog on May 09, 2014, 12:56:55 AM
In Texas all hard liquor stores are closed on Sundays and close at 9 p.m. every night the rest of the week, but you can buy beer and wine after noon on Sundays – and also until 1 a.m. on Saturday nights; the cutoff is midnight the rest of the week.
Texas also has its lovely (not!) patchwork of "wet" and "dry" counties where sometimes there are interesting ways - like "joining" a "club" - which allow one to purchase/consume alcohol when it would otherwise be illegal. Yeehaw, Texas.
Quote from: US81 on May 09, 2014, 06:15:38 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on May 09, 2014, 12:56:55 AM
In Texas all hard liquor stores are closed on Sundays and close at 9 p.m. every night the rest of the week, but you can buy beer and wine after noon on Sundays – and also until 1 a.m. on Saturday nights; the cutoff is midnight the rest of the week.
Texas also has its lovely (not!) patchwork of "wet" and "dry" counties where sometimes there are interesting ways - like "joining" a "club" - which allow one to purchase/consume alcohol when it would otherwise be illegal. Yeehaw, Texas.
It's worse than that. Counties can vote wet or dry, but so can municipalities within those counties, adding to the patchwork. And municipalities which annex outlying areas have to hold a new wet-dry election to make the newly-incorporated area wet.
It's going in the right direction, though. Places which were dry forever are voting to go wet with regularity. Very seldom do wet areas vote to go back. The last time I remember that happening was a few years ago when Melissa did away with liquor but kept beer/wine sales. Used to be the only place you could buy liquor between Dallas and Denison. But several other towns along 75 now sell liquor, including Plano.
Quote from: Road Hog on May 09, 2014, 08:04:33 PM
Quote from: US81 on May 09, 2014, 06:15:38 AM
Quote from: Road Hog on May 09, 2014, 12:56:55 AM
In Texas all hard liquor stores are closed on Sundays and close at 9 p.m. every night the rest of the week, but you can buy beer and wine after noon on Sundays – and also until 1 a.m. on Saturday nights; the cutoff is midnight the rest of the week.
Texas also has its lovely (not!) patchwork of "wet" and "dry" counties where sometimes there are interesting ways - like "joining" a "club" - which allow one to purchase/consume alcohol when it would otherwise be illegal. Yeehaw, Texas.
It's worse than that. Counties can vote wet or dry, but so can municipalities within those counties, adding to the patchwork. And municipalities which annex outlying areas have to hold a new wet-dry election to make the newly-incorporated area wet.
It's going in the right direction, though. Places which were dry forever are voting to go wet with regularity. Very seldom do wet areas vote to go back. The last time I remember that happening was a few years ago when Melissa did away with liquor but kept beer/wine sales. Used to be the only place you could buy liquor between Dallas and Denison. But several other towns along 75 now sell liquor, including Plano.
Many towns around here have chosen to go what I call "damp" — retail sales, but only service in places that are mostly restaurant, and even then some have a "two drinks with a clear intent to order food" provision to keep from allowing a true watering hole. The result is no interesting bars in those places.
The most amusing brake I've heard on "bar-iness" is one town here that has bars, but legally prohibits patrons to drink unless sitting down (which can be... a pain in the ass!), a rule that is usually ignored.
A long time ago on a family road trip from Mobile to Omaha, my dad asked my sister and I if we felt our IQ drop when we crossed from Tennessee into Arkansas.
Quote from: kkt on May 06, 2014, 12:31:36 PM
Quote from: jake on May 06, 2014, 12:53:15 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 06, 2014, 12:38:57 AM
Quote from: ET21 on May 05, 2014, 09:10:21 PM
Gas prices :-D
Ex: Illinois vs Iowa, a 40-60 cents difference
I'm sure all the bordering states have lower prices than Illinois due to the taxes, but Iowa always seems to be the most dramatic
Roads into New Jersey from New York are littered with gasoline alleys, much as roads into New Hampshire from Massachusetts usually have a liquor store very close in.
The Bellingham Costco just south of the WA/BC border is regularly filled to the brim with Canadians searching for the best bang for their buck.
As for my own shocking border crossing, probably my first time crossing into BC from Washington. I was appalled by how horribly they treated our beloved I-5...having it just end in some southern Vancouver suburb.
I-5 ends at the 49th parallel. It's BC 99 that ends at a city street in South Van.
Not only that, but as a former resident, I get irrationally offended whenever anyone refers to Bellingham as "just south of the border". It doesn't make what you said incorrect, but Canadians at Costco are looking for the best bang for their buck on merchandise (milk is bog, go figure), the gas is just a bonus. If they were just looking for gas, there are similarly priced places 10-20 miles closer to the border.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on May 11, 2014, 08:35:45 PM
Quote from: kkt on May 06, 2014, 12:31:36 PM
Quote from: jake on May 06, 2014, 12:53:15 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 06, 2014, 12:38:57 AM
Quote from: ET21 on May 05, 2014, 09:10:21 PM
Gas prices :-D
Ex: Illinois vs Iowa, a 40-60 cents difference
I'm sure all the bordering states have lower prices than Illinois due to the taxes, but Iowa always seems to be the most dramatic
Roads into New Jersey from New York are littered with gasoline alleys, much as roads into New Hampshire from Massachusetts usually have a liquor store very close in.
The Bellingham Costco just south of the WA/BC border is regularly filled to the brim with Canadians searching for the best bang for their buck.
As for my own shocking border crossing, probably my first time crossing into BC from Washington. I was appalled by how horribly they treated our beloved I-5...having it just end in some southern Vancouver suburb.
I-5 ends at the 49th parallel. It's BC 99 that ends at a city street in South Van.
Not only that, but as a former resident, I get irrationally offended whenever anyone refers to Bellingham as "just south of the border". It doesn't make what you said incorrect, but Canadians at Costco are looking for the best bang for their buck on merchandise (milk is bog, go figure), the gas is just a bonus. If they were just looking for gas, there are similarly priced places 10-20 miles closer to the border.
KKT, I am aware that I-5 ends at the border. I'm just being selfish, but I would have thought that the Canadians would have recognized our beautiful 1000 mile long freeway and would have at least constructed BC 99 around the city. It's annoying going to Whistler from the Seattle area because you have to go through the city. Too much traffic. You can use the SFPR but it's sort of a long detour and isn't really a freeway anyway. More of an expressway.
Kacie Jane, Costco gas, at least where I'm from, is exceptionally cheaper than other stations. Canadians get their milk (http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Canadian-rush-Costco-milk-Bellingham-166254246.html) from Costco and then hit the petrol station (http://goo.gl/dacbnj)...as a bonus? Absolutely. A pretty massive one at that.
Quote from: jake on May 11, 2014, 11:09:17 PM
KKT, I am aware that I-5 ends at the border. I'm just being selfish, but I would have thought that the Canadians would have recognized our beautiful 1000 mile long freeway and would have at least constructed BC 99 around the city. It's annoying going to Whistler from the Seattle area because you have to go through the city. Too much traffic. You can use the SFPR but it's sort of a long detour and isn't really a freeway anyway. More of an expressway.
Well, you don't
have to go through the city, you could take Guide Meridian up to the border and then take the Trans-Canada. Trade city streets in Vancouver for stripmall and roundabouts along Meridian. Okay, not much of a trade, but if you go to Whistler often at least it's a little variety.
Quote from: kkt on May 12, 2014, 02:42:50 AM
Quote from: jake on May 11, 2014, 11:09:17 PM
KKT, I am aware that I-5 ends at the border. I'm just being selfish, but I would have thought that the Canadians would have recognized our beautiful 1000 mile long freeway and would have at least constructed BC 99 around the city. It's annoying going to Whistler from the Seattle area because you have to go through the city. Too much traffic. You can use the SFPR but it's sort of a long detour and isn't really a freeway anyway. More of an expressway.
Well, you don't have to go through the city, you could take Guide Meridian up to the border and then take the Trans-Canada. Trade city streets in Vancouver for stripmall and roundabouts along Meridian. Okay, not much of a trade, but if you go to Whistler often at least it's a little variety.
It's still ridiculous that no freeway goes between the border and the TCH. Yes that is extremely selfish of me, but is it really that much to ask? I guess in 2014 it is. Or 1970s Vancouver either, apparently.
Quote from: jake on May 11, 2014, 11:09:17 PM
Kacie Jane, Costco gas, at least where I'm from, is exceptionally cheaper than other stations. Canadians get their milk (http://www.king5.com/video/featured-videos/Canadian-rush-Costco-milk-Bellingham-166254246.html) from Costco and then hit the petrol station (http://goo.gl/dacbnj)...as a bonus? Absolutely. A pretty massive one at that.
Like I said, you're not wrong, and I freely admit I'm being pedantic.
But, Costco gas is exceptionally cheaper than name brand (Chevron, Shell, etc.) gas, but it's competitive with other discounted chains (ARCO, Safeway, Fred Meyer). If Canadians were coming down just for the gas, they'd be using an extra gallon or so to come all the way down to Bellingham and back, so any savings over other cheap gas in Blaine or Lynden (legitimately
just south of the border) would be wasted. Thus, they're coming to Costco for the stuff inside first, and the gas is just a bonus saving them an extra stop closer to the border, even if it is a massive bonus.
Quote from: jake on May 12, 2014, 02:59:52 AM
Quote from: kkt on May 12, 2014, 02:42:50 AM
Quote from: jake on May 11, 2014, 11:09:17 PM
KKT, I am aware that I-5 ends at the border. I'm just being selfish, but I would have thought that the Canadians would have recognized our beautiful 1000 mile long freeway and would have at least constructed BC 99 around the city. It's annoying going to Whistler from the Seattle area because you have to go through the city. Too much traffic. You can use the SFPR but it's sort of a long detour and isn't really a freeway anyway. More of an expressway.
Well, you don't have to go through the city, you could take Guide Meridian up to the border and then take the Trans-Canada. Trade city streets in Vancouver for stripmall and roundabouts along Meridian. Okay, not much of a trade, but if you go to Whistler often at least it's a little variety.
It's still ridiculous that no freeway goes between the border and the TCH. Yes that is extremely selfish of me, but is it really that much to ask? I guess in 2014 it is. Or 1970s Vancouver either, apparently.
Yeah, I've never understood why there was BC 99 on one end, and TCH on the other, with nothing in between. You'd think there would be something connecting the two.
The US considers its border traffic as "through traffic". I know that Ontario considers it "local traffic" (note that neither the Seaway Bridge nor the Canadian side of the Ogdensburg-Prescott Bridge have a provincial designation) and it wouldn't surprise me if other provinces do too. It would explain why US freeways tend to become surface streets in Canada but rarely the other way around (Peace Bridge/QEW and NB 1 near Calais), and the freeways that do continue on both sides almost invariably have an at-grade on the Canadian side near customs, the only exceptions being ON 402/I-94 and I-190/ON 405.
Quote from: Duke87 on May 07, 2014, 10:06:52 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on May 06, 2014, 06:08:58 PM
Something I notice when I leave Indiana and enter a gas station: beer in the coolers. Also, the ability to purchase beer (or any alcohol) on that most holy of days, Sunday. Hell, I was reminded of our wonderful laws to preserve the specialness of that first day of the week when driving up I-164 yesterday to see a billboard for a Kentucky car dealership announcing that it was open on Sundays.
Connecticut recently got rid of their law banning the sale of Alcohol on Sundays. That said, there never were any liquor stores I saw conveniently located right over the border in NY, MA, or RI. When I lived in Connecticut, despite there being a liquor store in New York that was 10 minutes away, going there to buy alcohol on Sunday was rare. We usually just planned accordingly and purchased it on any of the other six days of the week.
I do remember, though, that there was a time when New York did not take part in Powerball lottery but Connecticut did. Whenever the jackpot got really high, you would see people lining up at the gas stations on the Merritt just over the state line to buy Powerball tickets.
People from CT tend to go to MA and NY for booze because prices are relatively cheaper, plus better selection. CT has minimum pricing laws which prevent prices of items from being sold below a certain price. MA also has no sales tax on alcohol, while CT does. One gap that is about to be closed is in distributorship. I'd have to drive 45 minutes to Brewster, NY to find Yuengling and Shiner beers. Then MA started selling Yuengling, and now CT sells Shiner and Yuengling is coming soon. But anytime I go to MA I make sure to fill up before the CT border (25 cents cheaper), No real difference in gas prices between CT and NY and CT and RI. Oh, and about the MA/NH border, restaurants are on the MA side because NH has an 11% restaurant and hotel tax, where MA only has general sales tax of 6.25%.
Quote from: vdeane on May 12, 2014, 09:03:31 PM
The US considers its border traffic as "through traffic". I know that Ontario considers it "local traffic" (note that neither the Seaway Bridge nor the Canadian side of the Ogdensburg-Prescott Bridge have a provincial designation) and it wouldn't surprise me if other provinces do too. It would explain why US freeways tend to become surface streets in Canada but rarely the other way around (Peace Bridge/QEW and NB 1 near Calais), and the freeways that do continue on both sides almost invariably have an at-grade on the Canadian side near customs, the only exceptions being ON 402/I-94 and I-190/ON 405.
Ontario very much considers it to be through traffic. Which would be why we've been spending billions of dollars on border improvements over the last decade. Over 50% of all of Canada's foreign trade crosses the US border from Ontario, so you better believe we make that stuff one of our highest priorities.
Of the 13 fixed crossings to the USA from that province (that are open to the general public), 9 have provincial highways leading up to them. Of the remaining four, the approaches to the Sault Ste. Marie bridge, the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, and the Niagara Falls Rainbow Bridge all see significant provincial and federal funding. Not to mention the province is heavily involved in the ITS projects along the tunnel and bridge approaches, and other strategic roadways in Windsor.
And per the crossing at Cornwall, I honestly don't deal with enough stuff in Eastern Ontario to know much about what goes on there. But it stands to reason that if 12 of 13 are funded, there's a good chance the thirteenth is too.
And regarding freeway connections, there really isn't a large enough sample size to make those kind of generalizations. There are five cases where a freeway on the US side connects to Ontario- Sault Ste. Marie, Bluewater Bridge, Ambassador Bridge, Lewiston-Queenston Bridge, and Thousand Islands Bridge. Bluewater and LQ both connect directly into freeways, Ambassador is being bypassed by a direct freeway-to-freeway connection, the two lane bridges at Thousand Islands creates a constraint and makes it kind of pointless to have a freeway approaching it when there's a free-flow two lane highway there (unless you need queue storage capacity), and at the Soo there simply isn't a freeway to connect to - though a controlled access arterial does connect into the provincial network from the bridge and bypass the built up section of SSM, Ontario.
If you're counting the Ambassador (really interstate ramps with nothing in between, and that's a recent project) you can add the Peace Bridge. NY will be removing the at-grade on our side in the relatively near future.
It seems like the border crossings are a lower priority on Canada's side in any case. Ontario has the most freeway crossings due to the 400 series highways. ON 137 is indeed a special case (and I'd be against a freeway on Hill Island unless you tunnel under it, though if the Thousand Island Bridge is ever twinned (I doubt it), MTO might find a way). One would think ON 16 would have been re-routed onto the bridge to end at NY 812 instead of continuing to RR 2 when the downloading happened, but then the downloading left Ontario's provincial highways without a coherent system period. I would have routed ON 138 onto the Seaway Bridge too, and I'm pretty sure that ON 420 used to connect to the Rainbow Bridge before the downloading in 1998 (wasn't the downloading determined entirely by the ratio of local/through traffic?).
I believe the Seaway International Bridge Corporation is a sub-agency of Canada's Federal Bridge agency.
EVERY other freeway crossing outside of Ontario has an at-grade immediately on the Canadian side with the exception of NB 1.
Quote from: vdeane on May 13, 2014, 07:16:26 PM
EVERY other freeway crossing outside of Ontario has an at-grade immediately on the Canadian side with the exception of NB 1.
Except BC 99, which does continue for about 50 km (guess) as freeway into the southern Vancouver suburbs.
Quote from: jake on May 13, 2014, 10:23:17 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 13, 2014, 07:16:26 PM
EVERY other freeway crossing outside of Ontario has an at-grade immediately on the Canadian side with the exception of NB 1.
Except BC 99, which does continue for about 50 km (guess) as freeway into the southern Vancouver suburbs.
Not quite... (https://maps.google.com/?ll=49.007101,-122.757658&spn=0.002407,0.00456&t=h&z=18) one at-grade, just past customs.
Quote from: vdeane on May 13, 2014, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: jake on May 13, 2014, 10:23:17 PM
Quote from: vdeane on May 13, 2014, 07:16:26 PM
EVERY other freeway crossing outside of Ontario has an at-grade immediately on the Canadian side with the exception of NB 1.
Except BC 99, which does continue for about 50 km (guess) as freeway into the southern Vancouver suburbs.
Not quite... (https://maps.google.com/?ll=49.007101,-122.757658&spn=0.002407,0.00456&t=h&z=18) one at-grade, just past customs.
Ah yes, Beach Road. God damn Beach Road. Ruining the fun.
To me the most obvious accidental geographic change is I-77 between Virginia and North Carolina. The border lies at the foot of a large grade and it is a good 150 miles of rough mountains in VA and WV, while the land quickly turns to rolling farmland in NC. I call it "accidental" because the border is a straight line. It just happens that that is where I-77 is. If it was 20 miles further west, NC's 77 would get some mountains, 20 miles further east Virginia would have some farm land.
Quote from: vdeane on May 13, 2014, 07:16:26 PM
If you're counting the Ambassador (really interstate ramps with nothing in between, and that's a recent project) you can add the Peace Bridge. NY will be removing the at-grade on our side in the relatively near future.
It seems like the border crossings are a lower priority on Canada's side in any case. Ontario has the most freeway crossings due to the 400 series highways. ON 137 is indeed a special case (and I'd be against a freeway on Hill Island unless you tunnel under it, though if the Thousand Island Bridge is ever twinned (I doubt it), MTO might find a way). One would think ON 16 would have been re-routed onto the bridge to end at NY 812 instead of continuing to RR 2 when the downloading happened, but then the downloading left Ontario's provincial highways without a coherent system period. I would have routed ON 138 onto the Seaway Bridge too, and I'm pretty sure that ON 420 used to connect to the Rainbow Bridge before the downloading in 1998 (wasn't the downloading determined entirely by the ratio of local/through traffic?).
I believe the Seaway International Bridge Corporation is a sub-agency of Canada's Federal Bridge agency.
EVERY other freeway crossing outside of Ontario has an at-grade immediately on the Canadian side with the exception of NB 1.
That will be awesome when the connection gets built at Buffalo. Glad to hear it, thanks. :)
- I can't speak to other provinces, but in Ontario's case border issues have been one of if not the single largest item on MTO's construction agenda. In the last few years, every border crossing from Cornwall to the Soo (including the ferries) have had some pretty significant investment. And I'm sure the Northwestern Ontario ones have as well.
- The bridge already ends right at Hwy 16, so it would be physically impossible to reroute Hwy 16. Besides, the routing is signed with markers directing traffic to NY-37, which is more positive guidance than is typically seen on either side.
- When examined empirically, the 1990s restructuring in most ways improved numbering in the province. Now, intra-regional routes are one class of highway (county roads) and inter-regional routes are another (King's Highway). And again, looking at it empirically, the amount of numerical discontinuity created by the restructuring is little to none.
- The rationale behind those highway transfers is indeed based on whether it carries provincial traffic. Highway 420 is a unique situation in that it does provide a through link, but only for non-commercial vehicles. As such, the highway was transferred to the local municipality on Dec. 4, 2002. However, owing to it being a border route, it still receives provincial funding, and the route between the bridge and the provincial highways is well-signed.
- Cornwall is a similar case, where the bridge connects into urban roadways, the kind MTO has never made it their business to own or maintain. And again, as the approach road is well signed to the bridge/highways respectively, and receives border funding, then the actual difference to road users and road authorities is non-existent.
I can understand how it may appear superficially one way, but once it's looked at in depth it actually is quite the opposite.
I mainly look at the system in CHM. To say that there are a ton of holes and that routes seemingly start/stop at random is an understatement, at least in southern Ontario along the 401 corridor (especially around Niagara Falls, which shows up on my NY CHM map, along with every other clinched Canadian highway segment I've had a chance to go on). Northern Ontario looks a lot more normal. Of course, I'm from New York, where route shields tell you nothing about what type of road something is. I do like Vermont's system though, which shows the difference between local/through without the discontinuities.
Here's the Buffalo project map: http://ipost.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Screen-Shot-2013-04-03-at-10.47.04-AM.png
Not the most exciting project, but that traffic light will at least be gone.
I-77 northbound from North Carolina into Virginia is a treat. In North Carolina, it's a typical highway traversing the rolling hills of the Piedmont, but once you cross into Virginia, it becomes an eight-mile climb with some spectacular scenery off to the east.
Heading southbound on I-77 is the opposite; it's very mountainous in Virginia, and then you coast down an eight-mile drop and flatten out (relatively speaking) once you cross into North Carolina.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 06, 2014, 12:38:57 AM
Roads into New Jersey from New York are littered with gasoline alleys, much as roads into New Hampshire from Massachusetts usually have a liquor store very close in.
They also have C-Stores with a well stocked selection of smokes, since its cheaper than buying in NY (particularly NYC).