I know how the anal road enthusiasts get their panties in a wad over highways like 400, 412, 425, 99, 97, 238, 73, 74, 351, 364, 69C, and many others. You're going to just have to get over it, because these roads are here to stay. You might as well get used to them. I drive on US 412 every day and it's just another US route to me. Anomalies in the system are what makes the hobby interesting. If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.
I do not think anyone is really going to kill themselves over bad numbering. Just because some of us do not like a particular route number does not mean we have to like it either. We do tolerate it, though, as none of us took action against it or rally or protest while taking days off of work to let FHWA know how wrong they are.
Yes I accept I-99 and I-74 despite that other numbers could have been used and in fact look forward to see their projects advance as well.
I once saw a proposal to not have I-41 along US41 for driver confusion reasons: it renumbered about 1000 miles of interstate. When I pointed out that renumbering creates driver confusion, and they call it the '41' in Wisconsin anyway, so far more confusion would be created, the argument shifted to how it (and the monetary cost) would be worth it so that I-41 and US41 wouldn't be in the same state and break the rules.
I believe the word I'm looking for to describe them is 'Vogon'.
Quote from: english si on May 08, 2014, 08:26:00 AM
I once saw a proposal to not have I-41 along US41 for driver confusion reasons: it renumbered about 1000 miles of interstate. When I pointed out that renumbering creates driver confusion, and they call it the '41' in Wisconsin anyway, so far more confusion would be created, the argument shifted to how it (and the monetary cost) would be worth it so that I-41 and US41 wouldn't be in the same state and break the rules.
I believe the word I'm looking for to describe them is 'Vogon'.
Hell, in Wisconsin every flipping thing is "highway" anyway. The Cheeseheads will never notice the difference between an I-41 and a US-41. To them, it's still "Highway 41". :pan:
How much trouble would we get in to drive the route and take the signs down?
Quote from: texaskdog on May 08, 2014, 12:49:28 PM
How much trouble would we get in to drive the route and take the signs down?
I'm going to
guess you'd be charged with vandalism, and maybe even destruction of state property.
Good thing I don't live near there
Quote from: Brandon on May 08, 2014, 12:15:39 PM
Hell, in Wisconsin every flipping thing is "highway" anyway. The Cheeseheads will never notice the difference between an I-41 and a US-41. To them, it's still "Highway 41". :pan:
If they even say "highway". Saying the number or letter(s) alone without anything else is frequently done.
New Jersey is the same thing. Interstates are called routes as so is the US, State, and County designations. So I-287 is called by New Jersyans as "Route 287" as US 1 is "Route 1" and NJ 27 is "Route 27."
If NJDOT was to ask AASHTO to decommission I-287, lets say to NJ 287 like I-495 got demoted some time ago, and replaced the shields with the oval NJ 287 shields; no one would even notice it.
I do not think people in NY notice that I-481 and NY 481 are two different designations either and most likely there call both interstate and state route both as "Route 481." I bet at the changeover point, many people just think it is one continuous road despite the change in designation.
Quote from: bugo on May 08, 2014, 04:19:29 AM
If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.
How dare you call the grid system boring!
Quote from: texaskdog on May 08, 2014, 06:26:58 PM
Quote from: bugo on May 08, 2014, 04:19:29 AM
If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.
How dare you call the grid system boring!
He wouldn't be the first. Oh wait that was sarcasm. :-|
US 412, et al, don't bother me, because the US route system hasn't ever been truly rigid.
Quote from: roadman65 on May 08, 2014, 06:10:36 PM
New Jersey is the same thing. Interstates are called routes as so is the US, State, and County designations. So I-287 is called by New Jersyans as "Route 287" as US 1 is "Route 1" and NJ 27 is "Route 27."
If it has a number and a sign attached to it, and it isn't a street name sign, New Jerseyans will always refer to it as Route. Or simply the number. Sometimes I like to just say the number, since in NJ the only roads with duplicates are 6xx county routes which are county specific.
For the OP, why are 351 and 364 out of place?
US-412 is annoying but at least it has a reason to exist. It's a good route.
US-400 is more tolerable to me (the number just means 'fourth spur of nothing', which at least isn't misleading) as a number but the route is basically useless. I wonder if it will get decommissioned when KDOT loses interest in it.
69C is idiotic because it's brand new, and the route is mostly redundant to 69E. I wouldn't be surprised if either 69C or 69E was eventually shelved for cost reasons, and the existing bit become an x02. There is no precedent for a C suffix, and stated policy is to phase out suffixed interstates, so there is quite a lot of confusion as to how this came to be approved. I imagine if 69C is fully built out, it will gradually become more accepted, much like people tolerate I-35E and W.
As for 351 and 364, I think bugo is referring to the Oklahoma state highways that were designated over the Muskogee and Creek Turnpikes, respectively. I haven't seen anyone here greet them negatively, although there is a lot of curiosity regarding what OTA is planning to do with these routes and whether more are coming for the other unnumbered turnpikes.
Quote from: bugo on May 08, 2014, 04:19:29 AMI know how the anal road enthusiasts get their panties in a wad over highways like 400, 412, 425, 99, 97, 238, 73, 74, 351, 364, 69C, and many others. You're going to just have to get over it, because these roads are here to stay. You might as well get used to them. I drive on US 412 every day and it's just another US route to me. Anomalies in the system are what makes the hobby interesting. If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.
Fair enough. The numbering systems will never be perfect, and the overwhelming majority of motorists don't need them to be.
Besides, we all have bigger things to worry about, things that actually affect our lives. Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?
Quote from: Doctor Whom on May 08, 2014, 08:23:10 PM
Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?
I checked through your posts, and you have never mentioned it.
I've never had much of an issue concerning 2duses following a rigid grid or even occasional even-odd parity-breakers (US-96, 33 to a lesser extent, etc.). If so, US-54 and 62 wouldn't end in El Paso and US-60 would more closely follow US-160's alignment west of about Oklahoma.
While I tolerate the "400 series" routes and 163 (don't agree with their numbering), I'd at least prefer those routes have more fitting (or 2-digit) numbers like 450, 86/88, 161, 164, or something similar. They'd even be good extensions of other routes--412 would make a great 58 extension (after you figure how to connect the two). It just bugs me that they defy just about every rule in the U.S. Route book, but it's just not practical or worth it to drive thousands of miles to vandalize signs.
Quote from: Doctor Whom on May 08, 2014, 08:23:10 PM
Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?
Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_is_for_Lovers):
QuoteA team led by David N. Martin and George Woltz of Martin and Woltz Inc. of Richmond, Virginia created the slogan after winning the Virginia State Travel account in 1968. Originally, they had come up with history ads, "Virginia is for History Lovers"; beach ads, "Virginia is for Beach Lovers"; and mountain ads, "Virginia is for Mountain Lovers". This approach was eventually discarded as too limiting, and the qualifiers were dropped. "Virginia is for Lovers" was born.
The discussions concerning the routing of US 60 and US 66 have been made public and are pretty interesting.
Are there similar discussions on how the US 412 number came to exist to be found anywhere? While the number might not be changing anytime soon, seeing the process by which the number was selected might be interesting and a great topic for second-guessing.
Quote from: 1 on May 08, 2014, 08:48:36 PM
Quote from: Doctor Whom on May 08, 2014, 08:23:10 PM
Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?
I checked through your posts, and you have never mentioned it.
I know I have.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 08, 2014, 09:16:07 PM
Are there similar discussions on how the US 412 number came to exist to be found anywhere? While the number might not be changing anytime soon, seeing the process by which the number was selected might be interesting and a great topic for second-guessing.
The only thing remotely close to this that I've found was ODOT's rationale for extending it from Arkansas to Woodward:
QuoteIt was felt this extension would generate additional recreational travel, and, quite possibly, stimulate economic growth.
Quote from: getemngo on May 08, 2014, 08:54:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Whom on May 08, 2014, 08:23:10 PM
Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?
Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_is_for_Lovers):
QuoteA team led by David N. Martin and George Woltz of Martin and Woltz Inc. of Richmond, Virginia created the slogan after winning the Virginia State Travel account in 1968. Originally, they had come up with history ads, "Virginia is for History Lovers"; beach ads, "Virginia is for Beach Lovers"; and mountain ads, "Virginia is for Mountain Lovers". This approach was eventually discarded as too limiting, and the qualifiers were dropped. "Virginia is for Lovers" was born.
Living on the west Coast, I had never heard that saying 'Virginia is for Lovers' until now. And my first thought was that Virginia was adopting same-sex marriage laws and was promoting it via a new tourist slogan. The LAST thing I expected was that you were supposed to, in a way, "fill in the blank" with wherever you geographically were. I don't want to call that a fail, just a slight oversight perhaps? Though, same-sex marriage wasn't really a thing in 1968 so I'll give them that.
Quote from: getemngo on May 08, 2014, 08:54:35 PM
Quote from: Doctor Whom on May 08, 2014, 08:23:10 PM
Have I mentioned the intense, burning passion with which I hate the "Virginia is for lovers" license plates?
Wikipedia says (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_is_for_Lovers):
QuoteA team led by David N. Martin and George Woltz of Martin and Woltz Inc. of Richmond, Virginia created the slogan after winning the Virginia State Travel account in 1968. Originally, they had come up with history ads, "Virginia is for History Lovers"; beach ads, "Virginia is for Beach Lovers"; and mountain ads, "Virginia is for Mountain Lovers". This approach was eventually discarded as too limiting, and the qualifiers were dropped. "Virginia is for Lovers" was born.
Wow, that was one year after "Loving v. Virginia".
Quote from: Brandon on May 08, 2014, 12:15:39 PM
Quote from: english si on May 08, 2014, 08:26:00 AM
I once saw a proposal to not have I-41 along US41 for driver confusion reasons: it renumbered about 1000 miles of interstate. When I pointed out that renumbering creates driver confusion, and they call it the '41' in Wisconsin anyway, so far more confusion would be created, the argument shifted to how it (and the monetary cost) would be worth it so that I-41 and US41 wouldn't be in the same state and break the rules.
I believe the word I'm looking for to describe them is 'Vogon'.
Hell, in Wisconsin every flipping thing is "highway" anyway. The Cheeseheads will never notice the difference between an I-41 and a US-41. To them, it's still "Highway 41". :pan:
Not "Highway".
Hwy! :bigass: :happy:
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 09, 2014, 06:43:55 AM
Not "Highway".
Hwy! :bigass: :happy:
Well, at least it's better than
H-way.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sulitstatic.com%2Fserver2%2Fimages%2F2013%2F1001%2F102056326_e023c981cff133ae4079d35ed8dd4884e5300d61.jpg&hash=a886f916d5244e42b4b11d460c1a8c29e7a1f282)
Or
Hi-way. :ded:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimganuncios.mitula.net%2Fcheap_condo_in_qc_nr_nlex_sm_north_trinoma_3br_w_parking_98043567372754584.jpg&hash=2b31f7e75690243ab69f115c8c97cb158356318d)
This actually bothers me.
/offtopic
We need to make our own irriational fictional highways. Of course that will have to be on a different page.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3775%2F11858075053_f0254536ae_b.jpg&hash=fc4cf93dc9b52444175eab5a9cc84f747eadaaaa)
Quote from: sammi on May 09, 2014, 08:55:29 AM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.sulitstatic.com%2Fserver2%2Fimages%2F2013%2F1001%2F102056326_e023c981cff133ae4079d35ed8dd4884e5300d61.jpg&hash=a886f916d5244e42b4b11d460c1a8c29e7a1f282)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimganuncios.mitula.net%2Fcheap_condo_in_qc_nr_nlex_sm_north_trinoma_3br_w_parking_98043567372754584.jpg&hash=2b31f7e75690243ab69f115c8c97cb158356318d)
those are some of the most fecal examples of graphic design ever set forth upon the planet.
I'd rather have '70 spec shields.
Quote from: US71 on May 29, 2014, 09:05:42 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3775%2F11858075053_f0254536ae_b.jpg&hash=fc4cf93dc9b52444175eab5a9cc84f747eadaaaa)
Hahaha, the guy in the middle's butt has cox on it
Quote from: texaskdog on May 09, 2014, 12:59:32 PM
We need to make our own irriational fictional highways. Of course that will have to be on a different page.
US pi.
Quote from: bugo on May 08, 2014, 04:19:29 AM
I know how the anal road enthusiasts get their panties in a wad over highways like 400, 412, 425, 99, 97, 238, 73, 74, 351, 364, 69C, and many others. You're going to just have to get over it, because these roads are here to stay. You might as well get used to them. I drive on US 412 every day and it's just another US route to me. Anomalies in the system are what makes the hobby interesting. If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.
This route is not far from me at all. Nobody even thinks about the number as being out of sequence here at all. However, I do have a proposal to renumber the route to US 66. Heck that would fit the grid for the most part.
If you think having a US 412 aggravates the purists, putting a US 66 anywhere other than on the original corridor would cause apoplexy amongst the masses.
Nobody seemed to care that US 48 has been recycled three times, but I can only imagine what the outcry would be if US 66 got put on a route running from New Mexico to Tennessee.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 29, 2014, 11:59:04 PM
Quote from: bugo on May 08, 2014, 04:19:29 AM
I know how the anal road enthusiasts get their panties in a wad over highways like 400, 412, 425, 99, 97, 238, 73, 74, 351, 364, 69C, and many others. You're going to just have to get over it, because these roads are here to stay. You might as well get used to them. I drive on US 412 every day and it's just another US route to me. Anomalies in the system are what makes the hobby interesting. If the whole country were a huge section line road grid, roads would be boring.
This route is not far from me at all. Nobody even thinks about the number as being out of sequence here at all. However, I do have a proposal to renumber the route to US 66. Heck that would fit the grid for the most part.
Nobody around here cares about the 412 number either.
As far as US 66, the last thing we need is another hwy 66 around here. We already have old US 66 (Admiral alignment), old US 66 (11th alignment) and OK 66.
Most people don't realize there's a sequence to be out of.
US 412 could be renumbered as US 560, US 162, or US 370.
Shouldn't this be in he fantasy road group?
Outside a few anal road geeks, nobody cares about the number. Personally I think it's a fine number. It causes the ARG to get all buthurt because the number doesn't fit the old system. Let's be clear on this: It's 2014 and the 400 series highway is a new type of "super" US highway and fits perfectly into the new system. We'll probably see more in the future.
Quote from: bugo on May 30, 2014, 10:50:17 PM
Shouldn't this be in he fantasy road group?
Outside a few anal road geeks, nobody cares about the number. Personally I think it's a fine number. It causes the ARG to get all buthurt because the number doesn't fit the old system. Let's be clear on this: It's 2014 and the 400 series highway is a new type of "super" US highway and fits perfectly into the new system. We'll probably see more in the future.
The 400 series doesn't offend me personally, mainly because I didn't get how they jumped to that number anyway. I'm only offended really when the number isn't assigned by AASHTO or flat out breaks the rules (*cough* I-238). What do you mean by "super" US Highway?
Quote from: formulanone on May 29, 2014, 09:55:50 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 09, 2014, 12:59:32 PM
We need to make our own irriational fictional highways. Of course that will have to be on a different page.
US pi.
__ __ __
US √-1, √-4, √-9. etc.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 29, 2014, 11:59:04 PM
This route is not far from me at all. Nobody even thinks about the number as being out of sequence here at all. However, I do have a proposal to renumber the route to US 66. Heck that would fit the grid for the most part.
The Route 66 people would have a s#it fit after all the effort to preserve the old roadway.
Quote from: oscar on May 30, 2014, 11:36:29 PM
__ __ __
US √-1, √-4, √-9. etc.
Wouldn't these be confusing for us Brits, who'd assume that they are US routes with interstate regulations?
I look forward to the Illinois - Green Bay interstate actually being signed
_____
US √-1681
Rather than I-41, in order to please the purists! ;)
US 400 doesn't look in any way "super" to me. It looks like a random road that got a random US highway designation because some states can't understand that US highways are supposed to be principal arterials and/or can't be bothered to maintain their state highways to any reasonable standard (see: Pennsylvania) and need the branding.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 30, 2014, 11:22:28 AM
If you think having a US 412 aggravates the purists, putting a US 66 anywhere other than on the original corridor would cause apoplexy amongst the masses.
Nobody seemed to care that US 48 has been recycled three times, but I can only imagine what the outcry would be if US 66 got put on a route running from New Mexico to Tennessee.
Quote from: US71 on May 30, 2014, 11:43:08 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 29, 2014, 11:59:04 PM
This route is not far from me at all. Nobody even thinks about the number as being out of sequence here at all. However, I do have a proposal to renumber the route to US 66. Heck that would fit the grid for the most part.
The Route 66 people would have a s#it fit after all the effort to preserve the old roadway.
There is absolutely no doubt about that! This would be the renumbering in the US highway system that WOULD make the national news.
Quote from: vdeane on May 31, 2014, 09:16:51 PM
US 400 doesn't look in any way "super" to me. It looks like a random road that got a random US highway designation because some states can't understand that US highways are supposed to be principal arterials and/or can't be bothered to maintain their state highways to any reasonable standard (see: Pennsylvania) and need the branding.
US 400 is most certainly a super-highway. I drove it from end to end and I passed maybe 10 cars (no joke). There's even a divided highway portion for like 3 miles!
We could renumber US 412 to US 400A. And connect it to its parent route via I-49 and call it US 400S (no sign would ever be put up in Arkansas, so no worries there). Build I-849 (Joplin Loop) and extend US 400 into Joplin.
Ok ok I'm joking. This could only work in Texas.
iPhone
Quote from: vdeane on May 31, 2014, 09:16:51 PMUS 400 doesn't look in any way "super" to me. It looks like a random road that got a random US highway designation because some states can't understand that US highways are supposed to be principal arterials and/or can't be bothered to maintain their state highways to any reasonable standard (see: Pennsylvania) and need the branding.
There's nothing random or overpromoted about US 400. KDOT treats it as a "red line" state highway, which means shoulders and passing lanes. It is also a single number connecting Pittsburg, Parsons, Wichita, Dodge City, and Garden City, all of which have populations in excess of 10,000 and are industrial centers serving very wide areas (Dodge City and Garden City have meatpacking plants; Parsons is a center of the wind energy industry; Pittsburg has a state university that is still an important teacher-training center; 70% of the world's planes fly with components manufactured in Wichita; etc.). Quite a few lengths of US 400 have been redeveloped to freeway or expressway standard, and while most of these overlap with US 54 or US 50, there are multiple grade-separated interchanges (US 75 times two, US 169, and US 59) in the southeastern part of the state where US 400 does not overlap any other route. US 400 has actually developed some capacity issues in the Flint Hills stretch (Augusta to Fredonia), so KDOT has projects in the pipeline to add more passing lanes.
Quite unintentionally, owing to my car troubles last year on my trip to the Wichita meet, I drove US 400 from Joplin to Wichita and found it to be a pleasant drive.
Functionally, it seemed to be no different than US 166, which I also drove from its western terminus to near Joplin.
AASHTO seems to have gone through a phase in the 80s and 90s of issuing 400-series route numbers. This includes 400, 412 and 425. Why? Who knows?
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 01, 2014, 03:42:22 PM
AASHTO seems to have gone through a phase in the 80s and 90s of issuing 400-series route numbers. This includes 400, 412 and 425. Why? Who knows?
In 2003 AASHTO also added US 491 in UT, CO and NM, which was renumbered from US 666. Unlike other 400-series numbers, US 491 is connected to it's parent route US 191. IIRC, US 491's number was given instead of US 291 or US 391 was the presence of SR 291 and SR 391 that already had those numbers and the state didn't want to renumber neither of them. So I doubt US 491's number was an intended continuation of the 400-series numbering system and only given a 400-series number because of numbering conflicts with the above mentioned SRs.
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on June 02, 2014, 05:36:47 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 01, 2014, 03:42:22 PM
AASHTO seems to have gone through a phase in the 80s and 90s of issuing 400-series route numbers. This includes 400, 412 and 425. Why? Who knows?
In 2003 AASHTO also added US 491 in UT, CO and NM, which was renumbered from US 666. Unlike other 400-series numbers, US 491 is connected to it's parent route US 191. IIRC, US 491's number was given instead of US 291 or US 391 was the presence of SR 291 and SR 391 that already had those numbers and the state didn't want to renumber neither of them. So I doubt US 491's number was an intended continuation of the 400-series numbering system and only given a 400-series number because of numbering conflicts with the above mentioned SRs.
US 491 had nothing to do with that. Originally AASHTO suggested 291 or 391. As both of those numbers were already assigned to state routes in the affected states, 491 was found to be a good compromise. And the states were fine with it, so long as the Triple 6 was gone.
And some members of this forum acted like US 666's renumbering had nothing to do with religion...
It didn't, directly, but religious superstition caused a lot of whinging about how the highway was "cursed", and led to lots of sign theft. It was easier to just renumber it rather than deal with all of that.
It's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs? When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables. This was undoubtedly done to appease the Fundamentalist Christians in the area. If somebody is stupid enough to believe that a road is "cursed" because of its number then why does anyone care what they think?
Quote from: bugo on June 03, 2014, 03:37:27 AMIt's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs? When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables. This was undoubtedly done to appease the Fundamentalist Christians in the area. If somebody is stupid enough to believe that a road is "cursed" because of its number then why does anyone care what they think?
We discussed this pretty thoroughly back in the MTR days. Going point by point:
* Most of US 666 passed through the Navajo reservation, and most of the energy in favor of renumbering it was coming from Navajos--not because they are fundamentalist Christians, but rather because they were tired of outsiders raised in the Christian tradition (whether they were themselves Christian or not) coming to US 666 to pull badass stunts just because the highway's number matched the Number of the Beast as given in Revelations. It is actually hard to imagine a US highway corridor anywhere else that has as low a proportion of evangelical Christians as US 666; Navajos have their own religion, and Utah is Mormon.
* The US 666 corridor was and is very thinly populated, so changing residents' addresses, updating mapping applications, etc. was hardly onerous. The only towns of any size US 666 passed through were Gallup (22,000), Shiprock and Cortez (both 8,000), and Monticello (2,000).
Quote from: bugo on June 03, 2014, 03:37:27 AM
It's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs? When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables. This was undoubtedly done to appease the Fundamentalist Christians in the area. If somebody is stupid enough to believe that a road is "cursed" because of its number then why does anyone care what they think?
There's an old boundary stone near where I live on US 1 that basically has engraved on it that anyone who removes the stone will be cursed. It is smack up against the road on the north side. I am sure that was taken into consideration when they widened the road to four lanes, and will probably stay if they ever widen the road again at any point.
iPhone
Quote from: bugo on June 03, 2014, 03:37:27 AM
It's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs? When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables.
Changing the number of a road doesn't necessarily mean that the name of the road changes as well.
Granted, some communities (such as my home county) names roads for 911 or postal addressing purposes by the state-assigned route number, so we have addresses such as "NNNN Highway 52 West" even though the local tradition has always been to call that road "Irvine Road." However, other counties give names to their state highways and the name wouldn't change if the route number is changed. In Estill County, for instance, KY 1571 is known as Millers Creek Road for 911 and mail delivery purposes. It connects to KY 52 on both ends and serves as a shortcut for through KY 52 traffic because it runs along a river valley and avoids a mountain crossing. If KY 52 is ever rerouted along that route, it will continue to be Millers Creek Road and addresses will be unaffected.
Quote from: Laura on June 03, 2014, 10:47:54 AM
There's an old boundary stone near where I live on US 1 that basically has engraved on it that anyone who removes the stone will be cursed.
apparently "survey monument. penalty for defacement or removal." was too high-falutin' sciency?
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 03, 2014, 10:46:56 AM
Quote from: bugo on June 03, 2014, 03:37:27 AMIt's easier to change the name of a road that has existed since 1926 than to deal with a few stolen signs? When renaming a road, you must deal with residents' addresses, 911 operations, mapping applications, and many other variables. This was undoubtedly done to appease the Fundamentalist Christians in the area. If somebody is stupid enough to believe that a road is "cursed" because of its number then why does anyone care what they think?
We discussed this pretty thoroughly back in the MTR days. Going point by point:
* Most of US 666 passed through the Navajo reservation, and most of the energy in favor of renumbering it was coming from Navajos--not because they are fundamentalist Christians, but rather because they were tired of outsiders raised in the Christian tradition (whether they were themselves Christian or not) coming to US 666 to pull badass stunts just because the highway's number matched the Number of the Beast as given in Revelations. It is actually hard to imagine a US highway corridor anywhere else that has as low a proportion of evangelical Christians as US 666; Navajos have their own religion, and Utah is Mormon.
* The US 666 corridor was and is very thinly populated, so changing residents' addresses, updating mapping applications, etc. was hardly onerous. The only towns of any size US 666 passed through were Gallup (22,000), Shiprock and Cortez (both 8,000), and Monticello (2,000).
Besides, I'm sure that sign theft occurs on roads numbered 13, 69 and 420 as well.
Quote from: Henry on June 03, 2014, 02:45:09 PM
Besides, I'm sure that sign theft occurs on roads numbered 13, 69 and 420 as well.
I don't think anyone has stolen anything on MA/NH 13.
However, mile marker 66.6 is missing on US 1 in Massachusetts. (66.4 and 66.8 exist, as well as those around it.)
Quote from: 1 on June 03, 2014, 02:51:34 PM
Besides, I'm sure that sign theft occurs on roads numbered 13, 69 and 420 as well.
Good point. US 69 runs not too far from here, and I haven't seen any missing signs.
Another number that fits this category is 66. I see plenty of historic US 66 signs and hundreds of OK 66 signs and they don't often get stolen.
I did, however, notice two missing US 271 shields a few miles apart from each other on a fact finding mission into southeastern Oklahoma last week.
I spoke with a guy from MoDOT once (he was in the geology division, so take that as you will) and he mentioned that the US-69 marker is the most frequently stolen sign in the state of Missouri. Pretty impressive when you consider how short US-69 is in MO compared to other highways.
Texas renumbered their SH-69, noting specifically it was because of sign theft in the minute order. New Jersey used wooden signs on SR-69, the only route that they did this for, before it was renumbered (Steve has one), and there is little else that could explain why that was done other than because the signs were being repeatedly stolen so they wanted to reduce their cost.
Something that factors into the cost of the theft is labor. Someone has to make the sign, then a couple of guys have to take the sign truck out there, put the sign up, and come back, which is all done on the clock. If you have signs constantly disappearing you probably have to start sending a guy through to patrol for missing signs. The cost of all of these things adds up pretty fast, to the point where renumbering starts to look like the cheaper long-term option.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 04, 2014, 04:48:05 PMTexas renumbered their SH-69, noting specifically it was because of sign theft in the minute order.
Which makes the I-69 everywhere even more odd!
I have never heard any issues about sign theft on KY 69.
Quote from: english si on June 04, 2014, 04:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 04, 2014, 04:48:05 PMTexas renumbered their SH-69, noting specifically it was because of sign theft in the minute order.
Which makes the I-69 everywhere even more odd!
Maybe it's one big subsidy for the sign makers?
Quote from: Big John on May 08, 2014, 01:30:10 PMHell, in Wisconsin every flipping thing is "highway" anyway. The Cheeseheads will never notice the difference between an I-41 and a US-41. To them, it's still "Highway 41". :pan:
If they even say "highway". Saying the number or letter(s) alone without anything else is frequently done.
[/quote]
This sounds like "Anywhere, USA."
I actually have more issue with US 425 since US 47 has never been used.
If I had been a legislator from Middle Tennessee, I would have pushed for the route to have been designated US 76 with a connection between the east end of 412 in Columbia and the current west end of US 76 in Chattanooga via TN 99 and TN 270.
Quote from: english si on June 04, 2014, 04:57:48 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 04, 2014, 04:48:05 PMTexas renumbered their SH-69, noting specifically it was because of sign theft in the minute order.
Which makes the I-69 everywhere even more odd!
Maybe that's why they went with the I-69W designation on the Laredo leg, to reduce the number of signs likely to be stolen. :hmmm: