Something doesn't add up here:
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2911/14123327995_bf4256ebdd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nw2Kn6)
2014 Hampton Roads-Delmarva Trip Day 4 - 098 (https://flic.kr/p/nw2Kn6) by hbelkins (https://www.flickr.com/people/52983012@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5192/14123641944_085bb9a2a6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nw4mG1)
2014 Hampton Roads-Delmarva Trip Day 4 - 099 (https://flic.kr/p/nw4mG1) by hbelkins (https://www.flickr.com/people/52983012@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5581/14123642664_5bf17a3d23_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nw4mUq)
2014 Hampton Roads-Delmarva Trip Day 4 - 100 (https://flic.kr/p/nw4mUq) by hbelkins (https://www.flickr.com/people/52983012@N08/), on Flickr
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2896/13936667049_c14101d51b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/nex4yV)
2014 Hampton Roads-Delmarva Trip Day 4 - 105 (https://flic.kr/p/nex4yV) by hbelkins (https://www.flickr.com/people/52983012@N08/), on Flickr
A different distance gap for Roanoke-Bluefield exists here:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=bedford,+va&hl=en&ll=37.300621,-79.372603&spn=0.251527,0.528374&sll=32.684789,-80.85474&sspn=0.033411,0.066047&t=h&hnear=Bedford,+Bedford+County,+Virginia&z=12&layer=c&cbll=37.300621,-79.372603&panoid=yfmubaTc8Qa0-3ZUoAqZ7Q&cbp=12,298.23,,0,0
Mapmikey
As many times as I have driven by those signs, I think I would have noticed that by now.
Quote from: Mapmikey on May 09, 2014, 09:35:39 PM
A different distance gap for Roanoke-Bluefield exists here:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=bedford,+va&hl=en&ll=37.300621,-79.372603&spn=0.251527,0.528374&sll=32.684789,-80.85474&sspn=0.033411,0.066047&t=h&hnear=Bedford,+Bedford+County,+Virginia&z=12&layer=c&cbll=37.300621,-79.372603&panoid=yfmubaTc8Qa0-3ZUoAqZ7Q&cbp=12,298.23,,0,0
I missed that one because I was over on 221 instead.
Quote from: 74/171FAN on May 09, 2014, 10:42:50 PM
As many times as I have driven by those signs, I think I would have noticed that by now.
I didn't notice when I drove it. I happened to see the pictures when I was going through my collection to find the sign on 221 that mentioned Galax to post in the other thread.
On NY 12/NY 37 heading south from Morristown, there's a distance sign saying 24 miles to Alexandria Bay and 24 miles to I-81. One problem: there's four miles between I-81 and Alexandria Bay.
Good Lord! The mileage difference is extremely pronounced (110, 101, 106, 103 between Roanoke and Bluefield). Virginia does seem have this issue. As does Kentucky. For example, the mileages to Nashville on I-65 south of Louisville have Nashville 44 miles past the border from south of I-265 to just south of the Western Kentucky Pkwy interchange. Then Nashville is listed 37 miles past the border from Munfordville to Park City (the correct one). Finally, Nashville is listed 34 miles past the border from the Cumberland Pkwy interchange to the state line.
Of course, every state and commonwealth most likely have examples like mine and those shown above.
BTW, I still call the parkways in Kentucky by their last known non-political names.
At least the distance to the city is not increasing.
Good to know my basic addition and subtraction skills are better than some of the sign engineers in Virginia...
Quote from: 1 on May 10, 2014, 08:16:14 PM
At least the distance to the city is not increasing.
That was happening on CT 30 or thereabouts when I was on a day-long bike ride in my teens. No cell phone, no maps (just a vague one in my head which was basically one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_(mathematics)) with labeled edges). If you passed the 30/140 intersection, your next waypoint was 30/74 and you really didn't have an idea of how far that really was.
Having the city of Vernon recede into the distance (mileage signs showing it farther away) was a little discouraging
Traveling on I-69 between Anderson and Indianapolis, the distance between the control points of I-465 and Indianapolis change between 10, 9 and 11 miles with each mileage sign. Not a big deal, but something I noticed from commuting that way many times.
On I-71 SB at mile 164 in Ohio, the distance listed to Cincinnati is given as 169. So Cincinnati is 5 miles across the Ohio river in Kentucky?
Actually I think the issue here is ODOT was measuring the mileage not directly through Columbus but around the west side on I-270. Which is not likely a time saver, even in rush hour.
I noticed that also. The mileage sign south of the US 30 interchange at mile 176 shows Cincinnati at 181 miles. The mileage could have been measured using I-670 west to OH 315 south. Wasn't that the way I-71 was routed until it was finished on the east side of Columbus?
On I-10 east of Lake Charles, the distances to Lafayette were erroneous for some time.
Quote from: amroad17 on May 11, 2014, 07:54:47 PM
I noticed that also. The mileage sign south of the US 30 interchange at mile 176 shows Cincinnati at 181 miles. The mileage could have been measured using I-670 west to OH 315 south. Wasn't that the way I-71 was routed until it was finished on the east side of Columbus?
That was an old route of I-71, but that would have been less than a mile longer than the current route.
There is a sign in Heavener, OK (a speed trap) that says it's 40 miles to Mena, AR, and there's another sign about a mile down the road that says it's 45 miles (It's actually about 45 miles from the first sign.)
Distances are usually to a city center. Perhaps at least some of the discrepancies for mileage here are through realignments? The "0" for Los Angeles used to be 7th/Broadway until the Four Level Interchange was built. That is the "0" for Los Angeles.
Quote from: sdmichael on May 11, 2014, 11:12:46 PM
Distances are usually to a city center. Perhaps at least some of the discrepancies for mileage here are through realignments? The "0" for Los Angeles used to be 7th/Broadway until the Four Level Interchange was built. That is the "0" for Los Angeles.
But not always....I've noticed city limits on a few signs.....Pittsburgh 15 on US 19 where I grew up was distance to the city limit.
Virginia generally uses the city center for its mileages.
The realignment theory might be in play with the Roanoke-Bluefield thing but some of the realignments occurred a long time ago.
I could also buy into the idea that perhaps VA 220 ALT was meant to be the through path, although there are no signs for destinations other than Hollins College and Troutville on 460 WB at 220 ALT.
I do know the discrepancies were all on the generation of signs before the clearview ones.
Another theory is that some of them were for Bluefield in Virginia instead of West Virginia.
Note that coming from Tazewell there are Bluefield (with no WV) and Roanoke distances with a mileage difference of 106.
Mapmikey
As far as I know, or can remember, all references to Bluefield on westbound 460 are without a state name, implying the one in Virginia. There used to be a sign on US 460 just past the KY 1499 intersection in Pike County with Bluefield, Va. listed. I don't know if it's still there or not.
I have not driven 460 westbound between 220A and Christiansburg to know whether or not the mileage signs designate a state.
At Dixie Caverns there is a Bluefield WV sign and in the opposite direction a Roanoke sign and they add up to a distance between them of 110.
At VA 114 the Bluefield sign on 460 Bus has no state designation
Mapmikey
Quote from: vtk on May 10, 2014, 11:23:29 PM
On I-71 SB at mile 164 in Ohio, the distance listed to Cincinnati is given as 169. So Cincinnati is 5 miles across the Ohio river in Kentucky?
Actually I think the issue here is ODOT was measuring the mileage not directly through Columbus but around the west side on I-270. Which is not likely a time saver, even in rush hour.
ODOT has a mileage sign on I-77 that puts Marietta, OH 2 miles south of the Ohio River into WV.
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on May 12, 2014, 01:34:00 PM
ODOT has a mileage sign on I-77 that puts Marietta, OH 2 miles south of the Ohio River into WV.
That one makes a bit of sense. The center of Marietta is about 2 miles from I-77 on OH 7, and the exit is practically right on the border already. One could possibly save those 2 miles by exiting at OH 821 instead, but that's several miles away from Marietta and likely not ODOT's suggested route.
Quote from: 1 on May 10, 2014, 08:16:14 PM
At least the distance to the city is not increasing.
When I was a child, my folks used to rent a cabin in the San Bernardino Mountains east of Los Angeles in a little town called Blue Jay, not far from Lake Arrowhead, and a couple of miles off California 18. The route connecting Blue Jay to Highway 18 was first California 189 and where that took a sharp bend to the right, up Daley Canyon Road to Highway 18. At the intersection of Highway 189 and Daley Canyon Road, the sign said 19 miles to San Bernardino. At the top of Daley Canyon where it connected to Highway 18, the sign said 20 miles to San Bernardino. Even years later, the signs increasing the distance to San Bernardino were still there, and for all I know, they're there today.
When tracking mileage on US 400 westbound between Fredonia, KS, and Wichita, the mileage is always quite off. If you trust their mileage, it puts you not at the Wichita city-limit, but abour eight miles further down the highway, clear on the west-edge of the city.
ICTRds
This sign just north of Fairlawn on I-77 (http://goo.gl/maps/Wa0PE) is also about 1.5 miles "off" if diistance to the state line is considered the distance to Marietta, but as noted above Marietta proper is a couple miles off I-77 near the state line at least as far as driving.
Several signs out in the Delphos/Beaverdam etc. area were "corrected" late last year (with ugly Clearview numerals, even on one button copy sign, gah!) to reflect correct distances to Mansfield after all the expressway portions of US 30 were finally completed. The expressway bypasses evidently added 11 miles to the distance from Beaverdam to Mansfield.
(There is a "Mansfield 6" sign a small fraction of a mile before "Mansfield CORP LIMIT" so ODOT must be measuring to the city center, not the city limits.
Quote from: PurdueBill on June 05, 2014, 12:03:47 AM
The expressway bypasses evidently added 11 miles to the distance from Beaverdam to Mansfield.
That's surprising. The old distance must have been measured straight through Upper Sandusky, and and I believe that was a fairly early realignment.
This topic reminds me of one likely reason why MassHighway/DOT no longer lists distances on their paddle LGS' (spec. D6 & D8 signs). For decades, LGS' for two North Shore routes had either conflicting and/or back-and-forth distances.
Example 1 - MA 1A in Revere at the rotary adjacent to the Wonderland T Station.
The offending LGS' have since been taken down when the rotary was recently revamped & restriped; but for decades on LGS listed Boston as 11 miles away while another at the exact same intersection listed Boston as only 5 miles away. The reason for the descrepancy dates back to an earlier routing of MA 1A. The original LGS that mentioned 11 miles to Boston was installed during the mid-to-late 60s (when 1A ran along what is now MA 16 and the distance to Boston was based on that plus the subsequent US 1 routingthat existed at the time) whereas the LGS that listed Boston as 5 miles away was erected over a decade later... well after MA 1A was rerouted to its current alignment.
Adding insult to injury, when the older LGS was replaced (it featured the then-spec'd cut-corners and was mounted on a square concrete post); the new LGS still listed Boston as 11 miles away (both the old & new LGS also liste Everett as 4 miles away). Obviously, this replacement was probably due to the original sign & post getting knocked down in an accident and the legend (other than adding a SOUTH listing that the orignal LGS didn't have) was a replace-in-kind.
Example 2 - MA 114 eastbound LGS' through Peabody & Salem.
At present, all but two offending LGS' (newer DPW-spec.d ones) were replaced during the 1990s. For over 2 decades, one traveling along 114 Eastbound encountered a reset distancewise to Marblehead. The first 2 sets of LGS' in Peabody one ecountered listed Marblehead as 6 miles away (Salem as 3 miles away). These LGS' were located at the intersection of Andover & Pulaski Sts. and the intersection of Pulaski & Gardner Sts.
The following eastbound 114 LGS, at the intersection of Gardner & Margin Sts. & MA 35 jct.), logically listed the respective distances to Salem & Marblehead as 2 and 5 respectively.
Once one got into Salem, however, they were greated w/a 114 east LGS stating that Marblehead was 6 miles away. These LGS were located at the MA 107 (Bridge St.) interchange and were recently replaced when the interchange was reconfigured. Further down 114, one faced LGS' that listed Marblehead as 5 miles away. These signs were located at the intersection of Summer & Norman Sts. and at Riley Plaza (Washington St. between Canal & Norman Sts.).
The Riley Plaza LGS' are the only surviving signs in the area that listed distances for destinations and have since had the listed 5 miles to Marblehead replaced w/4 miles (see below links).
LGS on right at Norman St. intersection, pardon the crappy GSV shot (http://goo.gl/maps/fAfrs)
LGS at Canal St. intersection (http://goo.gl/maps/suKno)
Quote from: vtk on June 05, 2014, 10:44:04 AM
Quote from: PurdueBill on June 05, 2014, 12:03:47 AM
The expressway bypasses evidently added 11 miles to the distance from Beaverdam to Mansfield.
That's surprising. The old distance must have been measured straight through Upper Sandusky, and and I believe that was a fairly early realignment.
I found it quite surprising too. I didn't notice that much difference on my own odometer, at least I thought I didn't. Seeing a button-copy "70" replaced with a Clearview "81" made me say "bleah!" but at least the rest of the sign is still button copy. The distances must have been entirely on the old road, before any expressway bypasses.
Quote from: PurdueBill on June 05, 2014, 03:15:21 PM
Quote from: vtk on June 05, 2014, 10:44:04 AM
Quote from: PurdueBill on June 05, 2014, 12:03:47 AM
The expressway bypasses evidently added 11 miles to the distance from Beaverdam to Mansfield.
That's surprising. The old distance must have been measured straight through Upper Sandusky, and and I believe that was a fairly early realignment.
I found it quite surprising too. I didn't notice that much difference on my own odometer, at least I thought I didn't. Seeing a button-copy "70" replaced with a Clearview "81" made me say "bleah!" but at least the rest of the sign is still button copy. The distances must have been entirely on the old road, before any expressway bypasses.
I had always thought that Mansfield was 81 miles from Beaverdam instead of the 71 listed at the entrance ramp from OH 696 to US 30. I based this on adding the mileage on the Rand McNally map.
Before US 30 was realigned on the expressway from OH 235 to Upper Sandusky, the mileage sign just east of the US 68 "interchange" listed Mansfield at 61 miles. This interchange is 16 miles east of the Beaverdam interchange, so the original number should have been at least 76 instead of 71. Since I have not driven around there in seven years, I'm sure the mileage listed for Mansfield on the expressway there should now have 64 or 65.
It is good to see that Ohio DOT does not always "carbon-copy" their mileage signs. When I-75 had a sign replacement projects between Dayton and Toledo 8-10 years ago, many numbers were changed as far as mileages to Dayton (SB) and both Lima and Toledo (NB) even if it was one or two miles. On US 35 East around Washington CH with the Clearview sign replacement project, the mileage to Jackson was changed from 64 to 60 (the correct one). Unfortunately, the mileages to Xenia on US 35 West are now short 4 miles after they changed to the Clearview signs. They were correct before (except the one that listed Xenia at 27 miles and Dayton at 47 miles just west of the OH 753 interchange--it now has Xenia at 27 and Dayton at 49; Xenia should be 30 or 31 miles).