I'd be really interested to see what you guys think about that.
All I know is that IDiOT is out. :pan:
Quote"The BEST Transportation Agency in the U.S."
...doesn't exist.
I love INDOT, mostly because of the Major Moves program and how they are finishing all their projects very efficiently :clap:. The only complaint I have against them is how they have been recently going on a decommissioning rampage :pan:. Also, I live in Indiana, so there might be a little bias there :spin:.
NHDOT:
Will not use Clearview because it is pointless to replace every sign
Increased speed limit from 65 to 70 on part of I-93, which you will very rarely find in the Northeast
No delayed projects (as far as I know)
Very few speed traps, no speed cameras or red light cameras
I'd vote the New Jersey Turnpike Authority, just based on the sole fact that (from what I know) they manage to keep two of the busiest toll roads in the nation (and maybe the world) flowing smoothly. They may have some disruptions here and there, but for the most part I don't think I've ever seen the New Jersey Turnpike or the Garden State Parkway experience a period where a stretch of the roadway is unusable (not including accidents that shut down both lanes of travel) for more than 24 hours.
Like I said though, that's what I know. Maybe they secretly suck and I'm oblivious because I don't get the opportunity to ride either of them.
Quote from: 1 on May 18, 2014, 12:43:38 PM
NHDOT:
Will not use Clearview because it is pointless to replace every sign
Increased speed limit from 65 to 70 on part of I-93, which you will very rarely find in the Northeast
No delayed projects (as far as I know)
Very few speed traps, no speed cameras or red light cameras
Problem with rating transportation agencies via speed limits or photo enforcement is that those policies are often set by legislatures, not the actual transportation agency.
I think a decision here would have to be reached by seeing which transportation agency has the least negative aspects.
Quote from: billtm on May 18, 2014, 12:38:32 PM
I love INDOT, mostly because of the Major Moves program and how they are finishing all their projects very efficiently :clap:. The only complaint I have against them is how they have been recently going on a decommissioning rampage :pan:. Also, I live in Indiana, so there might be a little bias there :spin:.
I got many more gripes against INDOT:
- Too many hidden multiplexes in Indiana
- I-465 should not have that many routes attached though in the first place.
- Should not have removed the free-flow connection between SB I-465 and the Sam Jones Expressway
- Seeming needless speed limit reduction on I-65 in the Lafayette area that drags on too long
- Excessive speed limit reductions in work zones; too many instances of the speed limit being down with no apparent work taking place
- Not keeping US 12 open in NW Indiana when there is work on I-94
- The Cline Avenue fiasco
- Letting US 30 through Merrillville get so bad (might be a good superstreet candidate)
- Signal coordination is often lacking
- Seems to use doghouses for split phased signals instead of 4-section heads
If you excuse the Clearview (which IMO doesn't deserve to be capitalized...) I sorta like MDOT. Their signs are mostly consistent and don't leave out details. If not them, I'd go with WisDOT (of course as you know these are in my region so I prefer them...
As before when this has been discussed, I vote for KDOT:
- Clear, consistent signage
- No Clearview
- Well-maintained road surfaces (KDOT is not afraid to tear a road down to the dirt and rebuild it if necessary)
- Excellent attention to detail in road geometry (curves are banked just right)
- Does a good job attending to transportation needs in Northeast Kansas (I have heard that their work in Sedgwick County leaves something to be desired, so that is a mark against them)
- Excellent state map
- Well-organized route system
- Frequent decommissionings to avoid spending money on roads that don't need to be state-maintained (freeing it up for improvements on other routes)
Driving in Kansas is always a pleasure, to an extent that I have seen unmatched by any other state so far (although WisDOT and TDOT come close in my limited experience with them).
Out of the states I'm most familiar with, I'd have to go with Iowa. I especially like the way they are upgrading highways throughout the state, and they know that a full freeway upgrade is sometimes unnecessary.
Of course, you would choose Iowa too if the states they're most familiar with are Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, and Michigan. :sombrero: (Indiana is good with their new projects, but their stick-a-stoplight-anywhere method of dealing with expressways is kinda annoying.)
Burlington county bridge comission gets my vote, tied with the delaware river joint toll bridge comission.
They both maintain some of the oldest bridges over the river, and the Burlington County one has not raised tolls in over a decade.
The bridges are all in great shape, signage is excellent.
Is there anything bad that NHDOT does?
Quote from: 1 on May 18, 2014, 09:16:02 PM
Is there anything bad that NHDOT does?
I don't like the way they combine route markers on one sign when highways run concurrently.
And sequential exit numbers.
In my experience, I'd give the nod to Texas.
Quote from: 1 on May 18, 2014, 09:16:02 PMIs there anything bad that NHDOT does?
Yes. They put their construction plans online but in encrypted ZIPs and you have to purchase an actual set of paper plans (lots of moolah) to get a password that allows you to open the encrypted ZIP containing the electronic version of the plans for that project once you have downloaded it. The vast majority of other states just put the plans directly on the Web where they can be downloaded and viewed free of charge.
I have no time for NHDOT for precisely this reason. On my personal list they rank fiftieth out of fifty.
New Mexico. the one part of the state where efficiency is really needed is served by the Big I. the rest is a mishmash of benign neglect and fascinating disobedience of standards. you never know what you'll stumble across. ("holy crap, state named US shields on 2009-vintage green signs!")
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 18, 2014, 01:40:53 PM
- Too many hidden multiplexes in Indiana
- I-465 should not have that many routes attached though in the first place.
I don't know why this is a major problem. I-465 should be used to route through traffic around the city instead of through it. What sense would it make to have all those routes running right through the city?
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 18, 2014, 01:40:53 PM
- Should not have removed the free-flow connection between SB I-465 and the Sam Jones Expressway
With SJE no longer directly accessing the airport, the volume of traffic doesn't really justify the cost.
Quote from: Revive 755 on May 18, 2014, 01:40:53 PM
- Seeming needless speed limit reduction on I-65 in the Lafayette area that drags on too long
No disagreement there, but I think that's state law and not at INDOT's discretion.
ISTHA. (Yes toll roads in general can frack off, but hear me out.) Ever since the major rebuild projects started in the late 90's/early 00's driving the tollways has been very nice. The addition of I-Pass and the fixing of some poor designs has easily made them some of the best urban motorways in the Midwest. The one main caveat is of course the other motorists (FIBs) but the infrastructure itself is generally top notch.
Having had a lot of experience driving Cross Country, I am fond of WSDOT, ODOT (Oregon), InDOT, MnDOT, and MDOT. MDOT will loose points with most people for their large-scale use of Clearview. ODOT has a bad habit of truncating a route but still signing it for years or decades, and have few if any "End" signs. WSDOT doesn't seem to have a great grasp of long-term simulations/plans, otherwise somethings, like the 520 Bridge would have been built for the expected 40 years growth of the region, not to mention how poorly they organize the ferry system. InDOT seems to be great in the field, but their website is so hard to navigate, it is nearly impossible to find out what the current projects are.
I'm going with Caltrans, mainly because of their well thought-out routing method (no duplicate routes, unless they're a continuation of each other, like I-110 and CA 110). Also, the major freeway/expressway/bridge projects have resulted in the roads involved being better off than they were before, though the traffic jams are another story.
I'd give the nod to Louisiana. Somewhat biased, but hear me out!
- We don't truncate any U.S. routes that aren't duplicated by other U.S. routes
- We have new Interstate being built as 75 MPH
- Our U.S. highways still follow the old two-laned roads next to the Interstate
- Other than along the I-10 corridor, Clearview is used cleanly, proportionally, and never in route shields or in black text
- We sign our concurrencies well
- TIMED project has churned out some very nice jobs, as in, the Huey P widening and four-laning rural US highways and state highways
- Much of our rural highways are mowed fairly often
- We use communities and local points of interest on directional signage
Of the states I regularly drive through, I would nominate NCDOT.
- Good signage practices
- No Clearview
- Active role in new Interstate construction (I-73/74, I-485, I-285, Greensboro Urban Loop, etc
- Large sections of 70 MPH, with progress towards 75
- Roads are well-maintained and generally free of debris
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 19, 2014, 01:15:16 PM
ISTHA. (Yes toll roads in general can frack off, but hear me out.) Ever since the major rebuild projects started in the late 90's/early 00's driving the tollways has been very nice. The addition of I-Pass and the fixing of some poor designs has easily made them some of the best urban motorways in the Midwest. The one main caveat is of course the other motorists (FIBs) but the infrastructure itself is generally top notch.
I'll agree about ISTHA locally. They do a lot of things better than IDOT, and don't get me started on CDOT. What possesses CDOT to think a five lamp tower with a "LEFT TURN ON GREEN ARROW ONLY" sign is OK is beyond me. As for signage,
ISTHA > IDOT District 1 > CDOT
CDOT's signage can be so abysmal that it makes IDOT Districts 8 (Collinsville) and 9 (Carbondale) look good. On the other hand, ISTHA has installed the first arrow-per-lane sign in Illinois by an Illinois-based transportation agency (MoDOT installed one previously at the new I-70 Bridge) on I-355 north just before I-88.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 18, 2014, 11:24:37 PM
In my experience, I'd give the nod to Texas.
with our roads that make no sense
Quote from: mcdonaat on May 19, 2014, 04:05:57 PM
I'd give the nod to Louisiana. Somewhat biased, but hear me out!
- We don't truncate any U.S. routes that aren't duplicated by other U.S. routes
- We have new Interstate being built as 75 MPH
- Our U.S. highways still follow the old two-laned roads next to the Interstate
- Other than along the I-10 corridor, Clearview is used cleanly, proportionally, and never in route shields or in black text
- We sign our concurrencies well
- TIMED project has churned out some very nice jobs, as in, the Huey P widening and four-laning rural US highways and state highways
- Much of our rural highways are mowed fairly often
- We use communities and local points of interest on directional signage
not decommissioning is a good thing??
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 19, 2014, 01:15:16 PM
ISTHA. (Yes toll roads in general can frack off, but hear me out.) Ever since the major rebuild projects started in the late 90's/early 00's driving the tollways has been very nice. The addition of I-Pass and the fixing of some poor designs has easily made them some of the best urban motorways in the Midwest. The one main caveat is of course the other motorists (FIBs) but the infrastructure itself is generally top notch.
ISHTA is the only transport agency where at least one employee has actively yelled at me* (how
dare I photograph their tiny stop sign! Obviously I'm going to send that photo to
Al-Qaeda or
the Taliban or god forbid the
Russians). Puts them far out of the running for me.
*An ODOT employee got onto me for taking apart a crash barrier on the decommissioned I-40, but he was considerably more polite about it and didn't threaten to confiscate any of my personal items.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 19, 2014, 07:40:18 PMISTHA is the only transport agency where at least one employee has actively yelled at me* (how dare I photograph their tiny stop sign! Obviously I'm going to send that photo to Al-Qaeda or the Taliban or god forbid the Russians). Puts them far out of the running for me.
They also allow their planroom contractor to charge, so they aren't very high on my medal list.
I guess ITD would rank pretty well up there
- Roads in decent shape for a northern climate
- Signage is very, very consistent and well done, although boring because of its consistency
- Good plowing capabilities
- System serves everything without being dense (though Idaho has an Indiana-sized patch of amazing awesome wilderness with very limited road access)
- No Clearview
- Stays on top of shit without experimenting with everything. Idaho has SPUIs and roundabouts, but probably won't put in any death diamonds until they are more established. Idaho embraced the FYA, but only after it made it into the MUTCD.
Idaho is a pretty boring state to roadgeek in, because everything is so consistently done, but it is a good DOT.
Quote from: texaskdog on May 19, 2014, 05:24:38 PM
Quote from: mcdonaat on May 19, 2014, 04:05:57 PM
I'd give the nod to Louisiana. Somewhat biased, but hear me out!
- We don't truncate any U.S. routes that aren't duplicated by other U.S. routes
- We have new Interstate being built as 75 MPH
- Our U.S. highways still follow the old two-laned roads next to the Interstate
- Other than along the I-10 corridor, Clearview is used cleanly, proportionally, and never in route shields or in black text
- We sign our concurrencies well
- TIMED project has churned out some very nice jobs, as in, the Huey P widening and four-laning rural US highways and state highways
- Much of our rural highways are mowed fairly often
- We use communities and local points of interest on directional signage
not decommissioning is a good thing??
I believe so. U.S. routes are way better than state routes, because someone living in Brookhaven, MS, can drive the long way to Fort Worth, head south, and immediately connect that U.S. 84 in Texas connects with U.S. 84 in Mississippi. You can't always do that with state routes.
U.S. routes have plenty of history, and should be cherished as historic and important roads, not just a number to chop off and give to a state highway. U.S. 80 could have been saved west of Dallas, U.S. 66 could have been saved, and so forth.
Quote from: mcdonaat on May 19, 2014, 04:05:57 PM
I'd give the nod to Louisiana. Somewhat biased, but hear me out!
- We don't truncate any U.S. routes that aren't duplicated by other U.S. routes
- We have new Interstate being built as 75 MPH
- Our U.S. highways still follow the old two-laned roads next to the Interstate
- Other than along the I-10 corridor, Clearview is used cleanly, proportionally, and never in route shields or in black text
- We sign our concurrencies well
- TIMED project has churned out some very nice jobs, as in, the Huey P widening and four-laning rural US highways and state highways
- Much of our rural highways are mowed fairly often
- We use communities and local points of interest on directional signage
I'm sorry but Louisiana's roads that I've been on are
terrible. I-20 west of Shreveport, parts of I-49 and pretty much all of I-10 east of Lafayette is in dire need of resurfacing. The bridges seem to be ready to fall apart and the infrastructure is old and narrow. There are pretty much no services along I-49, but I-20 is fine and I-10 is excusable because it's over the swamp. Plus, what's up with those weird interchanges? Louisiana, for the most part,
sucks. Of course I didn't spend much time there, so I don't really know the roads... I-10 in Metairie is nice though, and the Crescent City connectors are awesome.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 18, 2014, 11:24:37 PM
In my experience, I'd give the nod to Texas.
Our new projects are awesome and go up relatively quick, but old highways are still prevalent and terrible, especially in the DFW area.
Yeah, I-35E between Denton and downtown is no picnic, and the photos I've seen of US-75 make it look like not much fun either.
Having just driven hundreds of miles in the Bay Area--including 60 miles of US-101 in morning rush hour--I'm actually quite impressed with CalTrans. They actually built the infrastructure they needed, and when I got back to Oregon, the roads here looked like absolute crap. ODOT is just plain terrible in every sense of the word. Part of their problem is political--I suspect they'd be a fair bit better if we didn't have 20 years of Kitzlongoski. There's a few nice folks there, but overall, the department is run in a really bizarre and somewhat standoffish fashion.
NDOT in Nevada also seems pretty solid from what I've seen (compare NV-140 with OR-140--it's night and day). WSDOT is hit and miss. They seem pretty on top of where the trouble spots are and how to deal with them, but occasionally, they flub pretty bad (see the Snoqualmie incident in the mid-2000s, the WA-520 bridge debacle).
Let's go in depth with IDOT.
- Clearview. Please stop using it the wrong way it hurts my eyes! :banghead: HOWEVER they just resigned I-53 and I don't know if they used a contractor but the signs look fantastic and use Clearview correctly. Also saw a new sign on I-94 East just south of downtown with Clearview used correctly. So... fingers crossed!
- Inconsistency. I've seen some very awkward signage from them recently in Chicago.
- Exit Gore Signs. They suck. Wrong arrows, really small, crappy assembly in general. Just in general bad.
- Signs Pointing to the Freeways (and other routes). This is severely lacking in my area. Even the signs for the ramps are probably 20 years old, faded, and not legible. Trust me, they are not good.
For now that's all I can think of.
Quote from: Thing 342 on May 19, 2014, 04:45:49 PM
Of the states I regularly drive through, I would nominate NCDOT.
- Good signage practices
- No Clearview
- Active role in new Interstate construction (I-73/74, I-485, I-285, Greensboro Urban Loop, etc
- Large sections of 70 MPH, with progress towards 75
- Roads are well-maintained and generally free of debris
Though much of I-95 across the Tar Heel State is miserable in terms of deficient interchanges and narrow bridges (though the pavement is nearly always smooth).
Most toll road agencies and private operators keep their roads in decent to good condition, and upgrade them when they can, and seem to run their roads as the businesses (that they are when a user fee is charged).
And at least in the U.S., toll roads seem to have super-aggressive winter maintenance, which I appreciate.
Quote from: corco on May 19, 2014, 08:14:43 PM
Idaho is a pretty boring state to roadgeek in, because everything is so consistently done, but it is a good DOT.
the old business loops have lots of buried treasure. at least, as of 2009-10 or so. state named interstate shields, the occasional '61 spec US route marker.
also, tons of button copy on I-84, some of which still has shadows of numbers like I-80N and I-15W.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 20, 2014, 12:48:35 PM
Quote from: corco on May 19, 2014, 08:14:43 PM
Idaho is a pretty boring state to roadgeek in, because everything is so consistently done, but it is a good DOT.
the old business loops have lots of buried treasure. at least, as of 2009-10 or so. state named interstate shields, the occasional '61 spec US route marker.
also, tons of button copy on I-84, some of which still has shadows of numbers like I-80N and I-15W.
Yeah, Idaho has put in a lot of new signs in the past couple years- there is still a button copy sign here or there on the interstates. Most of it is gone on I 84 now though- at this point I 15 and I 90 are probably better for button copy.
I am almost certain there are no state named shields left in the entire state. The last ones I was aware of disappeared in 2012 or so. I haven't properly scoured the I 90 loops though, but I plan to this weekend. There are still a couple original spec business loop shields though around Pocatello
Quote from: 1 on May 18, 2014, 09:16:02 PM
Is there anything bad that NHDOT does?
I've never been thrilled about the fact that a "major" NHDOT freeway sign replacement project normally involves only two or three interchanges at most.
Quote from: corco on May 20, 2014, 01:09:04 PM
I am almost certain there are no state named shields left in the entire state.
gone?
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/ID/ID19790152i2.jpg)
the mainline one on I-90 is gone. what about the very first mainline I-15 shield coming southbound from Montana?
and I-86 at whichever exit this is?
(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/ID/ID19790864i1.jpg)
also I know there's a few of less than official origin around the Boise area; mainly trailblazers for routes miles away. let me know if there needs to be more made of less than official origin. I'll make sure the relevant parties get right on it.
The one on I 15 is gone-
http://www.corcohighways.org/highways/id/15/mtto22/1.jpg
I'll be in Pokie on Friday, so I'll check on that second one.
I forgot about that 86 shield. That one might still exist. I'll check if I have time.
I was only aware of two in and around Boise, and both are definitely gone, so, yeah, whatever has to happen.
Not even a single positive mention for N.Y.S.D.O.T.?
Thanks guys.
Quote from: CANALLER on May 20, 2014, 03:53:55 PM
Not even a single positive mention for N.Y.S.D.O.T.?
Thanks guys.
Don't worry, there's at least 20-25 other DOTs (rough guess) that haven't been mentioned yet.
Quote from: DaBigE on May 20, 2014, 04:51:32 PM
Don't worry, there's at least 20-25 other DOTs (rough guess) that haven't been mentioned yet.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Quote from: CANALLER on May 20, 2014, 03:53:55 PM
Not even a single positive mention for N.Y.S.D.O.T.?
Thanks guys.
I was debating about it. I don't know if the ranking compensates for budgetary restrictions or not.
At the very least, my region deserves mention for these wonderful tenth mile markers I can't help but gawk at every day: http://goo.gl/maps/a0WEW
Green on white is for negative numbers I think. Therefore that sign is 3 - 6 = -3. :spin:
TDOT
The interstates in Tennessee are in pretty good condition. TDOT signs several splits, 31E, 31W, and suffixes as well.
CTDOT only, and mean this, ONLY for customer service. They always respond to comments or e-mails. They also give me very detailed responses and pdf plans etc. They have even changed road lines based on my comments.
Everything else sucks...except the I-691/I-84 interchange and the I-84/I-291/I-384 interchange. I could rant but I'd be here FOREVER.
I'd like to shout out to CO... well maintained roads, clear signage, and excellent design are abound. It's hard not to put the state that built I-70 Glenwood Canyon near the top.
Caltrans Sorry, got hacked by blawp there.
I'd have to agree with NCDOT, out of the few states I've visited. MD SHA is decent, and VDOT is...well, I have my avatar for a reason.
WSDOT has steadily become worse and worse. Big Bertha is just the latest in a series of bad projects.
Quote from: Takumi on May 22, 2014, 11:11:25 PM
Caltrans Sorry, got hacked by blawp there.
How did he figure out your password?
Quote from: Henry on May 19, 2014, 03:39:47 PM
I'm going with Caltrans, mainly because of their well thought-out routing method (no duplicate routes, unless they're a continuation of each other, like I-110 and CA 110). Also, the major freeway/expressway/bridge projects have resulted in the roads involved being better off than they were before, though the traffic jams are another story.
I agree with the sentiment that the old Caltrans had all of these things. However, the new Caltrans Dist. 7 policy of getting rid of Freeway names, and Control Cities puts them near the bottom.
Of all the states, I've been to, I think Florida has the best DOT. All the signage was very clear and consistent.
As far as signage goes, I like Iowa. I like the fact that they still use square markers for three-digit routes. I hate their arrows, though.
I'm not a big fan of ISTHA ever since they doubled the tolls (OK - only 87.75% increase). The only changes I've seen are a lot of new, ugly, pointless signs with the yellow "Toll" banner on them and a lot of new (pointless) construction - like the Elgin O'Hare expressway that will (still) not go to O'Hare because the terminals are on the wrong side of the airport.
To be more positive, I would like to throw out OTC as the best transportation agency. Sure the Ohio Turnpike is not scenic or fancy, but it is well maintained and has the nicest travel plazas of any toll road I have visited so far. Driving it is easy and there is seldom a lot of traffic, save for severe weather or construction.