So it occurred to me recently that between Delaware and New Jersey there are only 8 total lanes connecting the two states (omitting the Lewes-Cape May Ferry). Are there any other states that have even less lanes connecting them? (Omitting ferries and such)
Appears to be 4 for Missouri-Tennessee: I-155 only.
Between MO and KY, there are only two unpaved roads that lead to unconnected orphans.
What about states that are only connected via ferry?
There's at least two:
Minnesota-Michigan (Isle Royale)
New York-Rhode Island (Block Island)
Neither carry vehicles at all, though, and the states are generally not thought of as neighbors.
Quote from: Thing 342 on May 24, 2014, 05:51:36 PM
Between MO and KY, there are only two unpaved roads that lead to unconnected orphans.
There are no land connections between Kentucky and Missouri, therefore no roads. The only connection is the Hickman-Dorena Ferry. Kentucky and Missouri have the distinction of being the only two border states in the nation with no direct crossing. Where do you get the idea that there are roads directly connecting the two states?
Quote from: getemngo on May 24, 2014, 06:29:26 PM
What about states that are only connected via ferry?
There's at least two:
Minnesota-Michigan (Isle Royale)
New York-Rhode Island (Block Island)
Neither carry vehicles at all, though, and the states are generally not thought of as neighbors.
As noted above, there is no connection between KY and MO save the ferry.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 24, 2014, 09:49:08 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on May 24, 2014, 05:51:36 PM
Between MO and KY, there are only two unpaved roads that lead to unconnected orphans.
There are no land connections between Kentucky and Missouri, therefore no roads. The only connection is the Hickman-Dorena Ferry. Kentucky and Missouri have the distinction of being the only two border states in the nation with no direct crossing. Where do you get the idea that there are roads directly connecting the two states?
Quote from: getemngo on May 24, 2014, 06:29:26 PM
What about states that are only connected via ferry?
There's at least two:
Minnesota-Michigan (Isle Royale)
New York-Rhode Island (Block Island)
Neither carry vehicles at all, though, and the states are generally not thought of as neighbors.
As noted above, there is no connection between KY and MO save the ferry.
There are a few orphans caused by the shifting of the Mississippi that are part of KY that are connected to MO by dirt roads:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/36.7400/-89.1527 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/36.7400/-89.1527)
Quote from: getemngo on May 24, 2014, 06:29:26 PM
What about states that are only connected via ferry?
There's at least two:
Minnesota-Michigan (Isle Royale)
New York-Rhode Island (Block Island)
Neither carry vehicles at all, though, and the states are generally not thought of as neighbors.
Well, you can have zero lanes, and zero ferries between neighboring states. As an example, you have Illinois-Michigan.
Quote from: hbelkins on May 24, 2014, 09:49:08 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on May 24, 2014, 05:51:36 PM
Between MO and KY, there are only two unpaved roads that lead to unconnected orphans.
There are no land connections between Kentucky and Missouri, therefore no roads. The only connection is the Hickman-Dorena Ferry. Kentucky and Missouri have the distinction of being the only two border states in the nation with no direct crossing. Where do you get the idea that there are roads directly connecting the two states?
Quote from: getemngo on May 24, 2014, 06:29:26 PM
What about states that are only connected via ferry?
There's at least two:
Minnesota-Michigan (Isle Royale)
New York-Rhode Island (Block Island)
Neither carry vehicles at all, though, and the states are generally not thought of as neighbors.
As noted above, there is no connection between KY and MO save the ferry.
Sorry, that's not quite true. There are no bridges over the Mississippi between MO & KY but there are two places where the river flow shifted eastward, leaving small parts of KY on the west bank of the Mississippi. These are mapped as having road access from MO.
There are zero lanes connecting Michigan with Illinois, zero lanes connecting Michigan with Minnesota, and only four lanes (all of them toll) connecting Michigan's two peninsulas.
Well how many paved lanes are there between, say, Nevada and Idaho?
(I still can't wrap my head around those two states being neighbors. I've accepted Oregon/Nevada, but not Idaho/Nevada...)
How the heck are Illinois and Michigan neighbors?
I've always found that annoying place called Indiana that gets in the way. Or Wisconsin, but that's another story...
Quote from: Brandon on May 24, 2014, 10:04:30 PM
Well, you can have zero lanes, and zero ferries between neighboring states. As an example, you have Illinois-Michigan.
Quote from: empirestate on May 25, 2014, 01:27:58 AM
Well how many paved lanes are there between, say, Nevada and Idaho?
(I still can't wrap my head around those two states being neighbors. I've accepted Oregon/Nevada, but not Idaho/Nevada...)
5- the two Idaho 51 lanes and the three US 93 lanes (passing lane at the border). The couple other connections are unpaved, unless I'm missing something.
Quote from: DevalDragon on May 25, 2014, 01:34:58 AM
How the heck are Illinois and Michigan neighbors?
They border somewhere in the middle of Lake Michigan. (And they get extra credit for a border as the two states with eponymous Sufjan Stevens albums....)
Quote from: DevalDragon on May 25, 2014, 01:34:58 AM
How the heck are Illinois and Michigan neighbors?
I've always found that annoying place called Indiana that gets in the way. Or Wisconsin, but that's another story...
The water boundary on Lake Michigan. Look at Google Maps, and you'll see it. On the Illinois side, it runs from the IL/WI border to the South Side of Chicago, and on the Michigan side it runs from just north of South Haven to the MI/IN border.
Now, I've seen maps that say "Indefinite Boundary" on that line, and I don't know what the legal status of the middle of Lake Michigan is. Maybe a surveyor can chime in? But it makes sense that, because all of Lake Michigan is within US jurisdiction, all of Lake Michigan is part of a state, and a Michigan/Illinois line would have to exist somewhere.
Quote from: US81 on May 24, 2014, 10:09:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 24, 2014, 09:49:08 PM
Quote from: Thing 342 on May 24, 2014, 05:51:36 PM
Between MO and KY, there are only two unpaved roads that lead to unconnected orphans.
There are no land connections between Kentucky and Missouri, therefore no roads...
Sorry, that's not quite true. There are no bridges over the Mississippi between MO & KY but there are two places where the river flow shifted eastward, leaving small parts of KY on the west bank of the Mississippi. These are mapped as having road access from MO.
Apparently, this went all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court in 1870.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/78/395/case.html
There are no lanes connecting any state with either Alaska or Hawaii.
Quote from: getemngo on May 25, 2014, 02:47:15 AM
Quote from: DevalDragon on May 25, 2014, 01:34:58 AM
How the heck are Illinois and Michigan neighbors?
I've always found that annoying place called Indiana that gets in the way. Or Wisconsin, but that's another story...
The water boundary on Lake Michigan. Look at Google Maps, and you'll see it. On the Illinois side, it runs from the IL/WI border to the South Side of Chicago, and on the Michigan side it runs from just north of South Haven to the MI/IN border.
Now, I've seen maps that say "Indefinite Boundary" on that line, and I don't know what the legal status of the middle of Lake Michigan is. Maybe a surveyor can chime in? But it makes sense that, because all of Lake Michigan is within US jurisdiction, all of Lake Michigan is part of a state, and a Michigan/Illinois line would have to exist somewhere.
Homeowners own the bottom of inland lakes in MI, but not the bottoms of the Great Lakes. They own only up to the water line.
So who does own the bottom of the Great Lakes? The states or the feds? If the states, then MI and IL do touch, as do MI and MN.
Back on track, there are 12 lanes connecting MI and ON - that's probably one of the fewest lanes per mile ratio of a border.
Quote from: GaryV on May 25, 2014, 08:53:55 AMBack on track, there are 12 lanes connecting MI and ON - that's probably one of the fewest lanes per mile ratio of a border.
Morocco-Algeria will own that, with 0 lanes, and a great many miles. Of course, if disputes stop and borders reopen, then Algeria have a 6-lane motorway that ends right at the border, waiting...
One of those few borders involving a land road and a major river is with Nebraska and Carter Lake, Iowa. Eppley Airfield is the airport for the Omaha area. Due to a old bend in the Missouri River which got changed with a major flood, a tiny piece of Iowa lies west of the river. Driving from that airport into Omaha requires a brief foray into Iowa territory on Abbott Drive (IA Route 165). East Locust Street a few blocks north of that becomes just Locust Street at the Nebraska line. So...at least 6 lanes with these crossings? (Abbott Drive is 4 lanes total).
Iowa and Wisconsin only have 8 lanes crossing their border of nearly 100 miles. That's fewer than I expected, even with the river.
Colorado and Arizona have 0 lanes.
Utah and New Mexico have 0 lanes.
:-D
A curiosity about Abbott Drive across Carter Lake, Iowa, is that since there are no intersections with any other Iowa roads or streets there, legally, cabs driving on it are not engaged in interstate commerce.
That concludes this episode of 'Oddities in the Law'.
:)
QuoteBack on track, there are 12 lanes connecting MI and ON - that's probably one of the fewest lanes per mile ratio of a border.
Sorry to nitpick, but I count 14 lanes: 4 on the Ambassador Bridge, 2 in the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, 3 on the new (eastbound) Blue Water Bridge, 3 on the old (westbound) Blue Water Bridge, and 2 on the International Bridge. There's also a truck ferry between Detroit and Windsor, a car ferry between Algonac and Walpole Island and a car ferry between Marine City and Sombra.
I can tell you who doesn't win least amount - NJ and PA crossings:
US 206 - 2 lanes
I-80 - 6 lanes
I-78 - 6 lanes
NJ 12 - 2 lanes
US 202 - 6 lanes (?)
NJ 179 / Bridge St, Lambertville - 2 lanes
NJ 29 bridge, Titusville - 2 lanes
I-95 (north of Trenton) - 6 lanes
Calhoun St Bridge, Trenton - 2 lanes
Trenton Makes / Lower Trenton Bridge - 2 lanes
US 1 in Trenton - 6 lanes
I-276 / PA Tpk Extension - 6 lanes
NJ 413 bridge, Burlington - 2 lanes
NJ 73 / Tacony Bridge - 3 lanes (2 for NJ -> PA, 1 for PA -> NJ)
NJ 90 / Betsy Ross Bridge - 6 lanes
I-676 / US 30 (Ben Franklin Bridge) in Camden - 6 lanes
I-76 / Walt Whitman Bridge in Camden - 6 lanes
US 322 / Commodore Barry Bridge - 4 lanes
In total, NJ and PA have a whopping 75 lanes between each border. Now that's a lot of crossings.
There are only two highways connecting Mississippi and Arkansas: US 49 between Lula, MS, and Helena-West Helena, AR; and US 82 betwwen Greenville and Lake Village, AR. I believe both are two lanes.
Quote from: golden eagle on May 25, 2014, 12:26:56 PM
There are only two highways connecting Mississippi and Arkansas: US 49 between Lula, MS, and Helena-West Helena, AR; and US 82 betwwen Greenville and Lake Village, AR. I believe both are two lanes.
There are a few places where the state border doesn't follow the river.
Quote from: Zeffy on May 25, 2014, 12:00:53 PM
I can tell you who doesn't win least amount - NJ and PA crossings:
US 206 - 2 lanes
I-80 - 6 lanes
I-78 - 6 lanes
NJ 12 - 2 lanes
US 202 - 6 lanes (?)
NJ 179 / Bridge St, Lambertville - 2 lanes
NJ 29 bridge, Titusville - 2 lanes
I-95 (north of Trenton) - 6 lanes
Calhoun St Bridge, Trenton - 2 lanes
Trenton Makes / Lower Trenton Bridge - 2 lanes
US 1 in Trenton - 6 lanes
I-276 / PA Tpk Extension - 6 lanes
NJ 413 bridge, Burlington - 2 lanes
NJ 73 / Tacony Bridge - 3 lanes (2 for NJ -> PA, 1 for PA -> NJ)
NJ 90 / Betsy Ross Bridge - 6 lanes
I-676 / US 30 (Ben Franklin Bridge) in Camden - 6 lanes
I-76 / Walt Whitman Bridge in Camden - 6 lanes
US 322 / Commodore Barry Bridge - 4 lanes
In total, NJ and PA have a whopping 75 lanes between each border. Now that's a lot of crossings.
Some of your lane counts are off and you left out one span
Dingman's Ferry: 2
Delaware Water Gap: 4
US 202: 4
I-276 / PA Tpk Extension: 4
Ben Franklin: 7
Walt Whitman: 7
Commodore Barry: 5 lanes
How about when one part of a state is seperate from the rest, such as the DelMarVa penisula, the VA part is only connected to the rest of the state via the Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel, 4 lanes on the above water and 2 through the tunnels
Edit: Decided to add a new section for something i discovered
Quote from: SteveG1988 on May 25, 2014, 12:47:24 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on May 25, 2014, 12:00:53 PM
I can tell you who doesn't win least amount - NJ and PA crossings:
US 206 - 2 lanes
I-80 - 6 lanes
I-78 - 6 lanes
NJ 12 - 2 lanes
US 202 - 6 lanes (?)
NJ 179 / Bridge St, Lambertville - 2 lanes
NJ 29 bridge, Titusville - 2 lanes
I-95 (north of Trenton) - 6 lanes
Calhoun St Bridge, Trenton - 2 lanes
Trenton Makes / Lower Trenton Bridge - 2 lanes
US 1 in Trenton - 6 lanes
I-276 / PA Tpk Extension - 6 lanes
NJ 413 bridge, Burlington - 2 lanes
NJ 73 / Tacony Bridge - 3 lanes (2 for NJ -> PA, 1 for PA -> NJ)
NJ 90 / Betsy Ross Bridge - 6 lanes
I-676 / US 30 (Ben Franklin Bridge) in Camden - 6 lanes
I-76 / Walt Whitman Bridge in Camden - 6 lanes
US 322 / Commodore Barry Bridge - 4 lanes
In total, NJ and PA have a whopping 75 lanes between each border. Now that's a lot of crossings.
Some of your lane counts are off and you left out one span
Dingman's Ferry: 2
Delaware Water Gap: 4
US 202: 4
I-276 / PA Tpk Extension: 4
Ben Franklin: 7
Walt Whitman: 7
Commodore Barry: 5 lanes
I-95 is only 4 lanes as well.
Maryland and Virginia, from west to east:
[crossing Potomac River]
U.S. 340 - 2 lanes
Md. 17/Va. 287 - 2 lanes
U.S. 15 - 2 lanes
White's Ferry [2 lanes on each side of the river]
I-495 (American Legion Bridge) - 10 lanes on the bridge itself, 8 lanes approaching both sides
I-95/I-495 (Woodrow Wilson Bridge) - 10 lanes approaching and crossing, 2 unused.
U.S. 301 (Gov. Harry Nice Memorial Bridge) - 2 lanes on the bridge, 4 lanes approaching
[Chesapeake Bay - passenger traffic only]
Crisfield, Md. to Tangier, Va.
[Delmarva Peninsula]
U.S. 13 - 4 lanes
Md. 12/Va. 679 - 2 lanes
Quote from: GaryV on May 25, 2014, 08:53:55 AMSo who does own the bottom of the Great Lakes? The states or the feds? If the states, then MI and IL do touch, as do MI and MN.
With a couple of minutes' searching last night, I was able to find multiple sources about how those states got their borders. Apparently the Northwest Ordinance had the IL and IN territories starting at the southernmost point of Lake Michigan. Well, those folks weren't too happy about not having any coastline, and so each of those negotiated for a better deal when they became states. And indeed, those borders do extend out into the middle of Lake Michigan.
Quote from: mhh on May 25, 2014, 11:41:08 AM
QuoteBack on track, there are 12 lanes connecting MI and ON - that's probably one of the fewest lanes per mile ratio of a border.
Sorry to nitpick, but I count 14 lanes: 4 on the Ambassador Bridge, 2 in the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, 3 on the new (eastbound) Blue Water Bridge, 3 on the old (westbound) Blue Water Bridge, and 2 on the International Bridge. There's also a truck ferry between Detroit and Windsor, a car ferry between Algonac and Walpole Island and a car ferry between Marine City and Sombra.
Are there 3 working lanes on each span of the Blue Water Bridge? I didn't know that. Then you are correct.
Quote from: Jardine on May 25, 2014, 10:59:12 AM
Colorado and Arizona have 0 lanes.
Utah and New Mexico have 0 lanes.
:-D
Well, Colorado and Arizona have
de facto the two lanes of US 160 connecting them, as the only intersecting road in New Mexico is... the one that leads to Four Corners.
Quote from: Jardine on May 25, 2014, 11:06:02 AM
A curiosity about Abbott Drive across Carter Lake, Iowa, is that since there are no intersections with any other Iowa roads or streets there, legally, cabs driving on it are not engaged in interstate commerce.
That concludes this episode of 'Oddities in the Law'.
:)
I thought there was a hotel on the Carter Lake portion of Abbott Dr., so if the cab driver is going there, then yes, he is engaged in interstate commerce (presuming he takes his customer into Omaha).
Quote from: GaryV on May 25, 2014, 03:34:03 PM
Quote from: mhh on May 25, 2014, 11:41:08 AM
QuoteBack on track, there are 12 lanes connecting MI and ON - that's probably one of the fewest lanes per mile ratio of a border.
Sorry to nitpick, but I count 14 lanes: 4 on the Ambassador Bridge, 2 in the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, 3 on the new (eastbound) Blue Water Bridge, 3 on the old (westbound) Blue Water Bridge, and 2 on the International Bridge. There's also a truck ferry between Detroit and Windsor, a car ferry between Algonac and Walpole Island and a car ferry between Marine City and Sombra.
Are there 3 working lanes on each span of the Blue Water Bridge? I didn't know that. Then you are correct.
The old bridge used to have two lanes plus a sidewalk but the sidewalk was removed (in the 1980s according to Wikipedia) to make room for three rather narrow lanes; I estimate the lanes to be about 11 feet wide each. The new bridge has three 12-foot lanes plus a sidewalk but the sidewalk has never been opened because of security concerns.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blue+Water+Bridge/@42.9986849,-82.4233787,60m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x88259c82ff885b65:0xa87d0c88ba859935 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Blue+Water+Bridge/@42.9986849,-82.4233787,60m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x88259c82ff885b65:0xa87d0c88ba859935)
Quote from: golden eagle on May 25, 2014, 12:26:56 PM
There are only two highways connecting Mississippi and Arkansas: US 49 between Lula, MS, and Helena-West Helena, AR; and US 82 betwwen Greenville and Lake Village, AR. I believe both are two lanes.
The new US 82 Greenville bridge has 4 lanes, not 2. And as noted above there are quite a few dirt roads that cross the land border, although I don't think any are paved.
Incidentally I've always wondered why nobody ever tried to build a casino in Mississippi on the west bank of the river.
Quote from: GaryV on May 25, 2014, 08:53:55 AM
So who does own the bottom of the Great Lakes? The states or the feds? If the states, then MI and IL do touch, as do MI and MN.
No place in the USA (save for DC and the territories, etc) is not a part of one state or another. The Constitution of Michigan specifically state that its border is "the middle of Lake Michigan".
No place in the USA (save for DC and the territories, etc) is not a part of one state or another. The Constitution of Michigan specifically state that its border is "the middle of Lake Michigan".
[/quote]
Not quite....state boundaries extend 3 miles out (see TIGER)....Federal waters are 3-12 miles out, and then the Exclusive Economic Zone is 12 miles up to half the distance to the next country, whichever comes first.
-------------------------------
Colorado and Arizona have 0 lanes.
Utah and New Mexico have 0 lanes.
-------------------------------
I guess "4 Corners" doesn't count? Is it possible to drive through the 4 corners or do you have to take the circle around the monument?
Quote from: woodpusher on May 25, 2014, 11:09:28 PM
Not quite....state boundaries extend 3 miles out (see TIGER)....Federal waters are 3-12 miles out, and then the Exclusive Economic Zone is 12 miles up to half the distance to the next country, whichever comes first.
The US actually claims an EEZ out to 200 nautical miles (with exceptions for neighboring countries, of course). Everything you'd ever want to know about US nautical claims, including those of the states: http://www.gc.noaa.gov/gcil_maritime.html
Quote from: Jardine on May 25, 2014, 10:59:12 AM
Colorado and Arizona have 0 lanes.
Utah and New Mexico have 0 lanes.
:-D
now divide that by the length of their shared borders...
Right, my bad. I had typed 200 miles or half the distance to the next country whichever comes first but somehow I lost the 200 miles.
Also not a winner, but fairly low: New Jersey and Delaware share eight bridge lanes, but zero on their two land borders.
Quote from: lordsutch on May 25, 2014, 11:17:05 PM
Quote from: woodpusher on May 25, 2014, 11:09:28 PM
Not quite....state boundaries extend 3 miles out (see TIGER)....Federal waters are 3-12 miles out, and then the Exclusive Economic Zone is 12 miles up to half the distance to the next country, whichever comes first.
The US actually claims an EEZ out to 200 nautical miles (with exceptions for neighboring countries, of course). Everything you'd ever want to know about US nautical claims, including those of the states: http://www.gc.noaa.gov/gcil_maritime.html
Just so I'm clear, is this discussion only about the ocean, or is it also encompassing the Great Lakes?
It seems to me that the NOAA page is very careful to specify that the info about territorial sea refers to "coastal States." I take that to mean that it doesn't refer to the Great Lakes states (except, I suppose, New York).
But this discussion could all be in rebuttal to the assertion that "No place in the USA (save for DC and the territories, etc) is not a part of one state or another," and not be specifically referring to the Great Lakes.
Nebraska and Missouri only have 4 paved lanes, 2 each for the Brownville Bridge (US 136) and the Rulo Bridge (US 159). There seem to be several gravel roads which connect to McKissick Island, the part of Nebraska east of the Missouri River, which is not really an island, although I assume it was once.
Quote from: woodpusher on May 25, 2014, 11:09:28 PM
Not quite....state boundaries extend 3 miles out (see TIGER)....Federal waters are 3-12 miles out, and then the Exclusive Economic Zone is 12 miles up to half the distance to the next country, whichever comes first.
Quite.
Michigan Constitution
QuoteARTICLE I
BOUNDARIES
Territorial jurisdiction.
The State of Michigan consists of and has jurisdiction over the territory embraced within the following boundaries, to wit: Commencing at a point on the eastern extremity of Lake Michigan to the most northerly cape of the Maumee Bay shall intersect the same--said point being the north-west corner of the State of Ohio, as established by act of congress, entitled "An act to establish the northern boundary line of the State of Ohio, and to provide for the admission of the State of Michigan into the Union upon the conditions therein expressed," approved June fifteenth, one thousand eight hundred and thirty-six; thence with the said boundary line of the State of Ohio till it intersects the boundary line between the United States and Canada in Lake Erie; thence with said boundary line between the United States and Canada through the Detroit river, Lake Huron and Lake Superior to a point where the said line last touches Lake Superior; thence in a direct line through Lake Superior to the mouth of the Montreal river; thence through the middle of the main channel of the said river Montreal to the head waters thereof; thence in a direct line to the centre of the channel between Middle and South Islands in the Lake of the Desert; thence in a direct line to the southern shore of Lake Brule; thence along said southern shore and down the river Brule to the main channel of the Menominie river; thence down the centre of the main channel of the same to the centre of the most usual ship channel of the said bay to the middle of Lake Michigan; thence through the middle of Lake Michigan to the northern boundary of the State of Indiana, as that line was established by the act of Congress of the nineteenth of April, eighteen hundred and sixteen; thence due east with the north boundary line of the said State of Indiana to the north-east corner thereof; and thence south with the eastern boundary line of Indiana to the place of beginning.
Quote from: New to Seattle on May 26, 2014, 02:28:35 AM
Just so I'm clear, is this discussion only about the ocean, or is it also encompassing the Great Lakes?
It seems to me that the NOAA page is very careful to specify that the info about territorial sea refers to "coastal States." I take that to mean that it doesn't refer to the Great Lakes states (except, I suppose, New York).
But this discussion could all be in rebuttal to the assertion that "No place in the USA (save for DC and the territories, etc) is not a part of one state or another," and not be specifically referring to the Great Lakes.
Good questions, yes. I was under the impression that TIGER was official, and apparently for some purposes it is. But my impression there was a ring of Federal water around the state waters may not be true, according to that NOAA page.
It says that President Reagan extended the territorial sea claim to 12 nm in 1988 - not that he invited states to do so (with TX FL and PR going to 9 miles); also that President Clinton extended the contiguous zone to 24 nm; and then the EEZ to 200 nm in 1983.
So do any U.S. Navy/U.S. Coast Guard ships patrol waters, say 9-12 nm off the coast of FL, TX, or PR?
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 26, 2014, 12:18:01 AM
Also not a winner, but fairly low: New Jersey and Delaware share eight bridge lanes, but zero on their two land borders.
That was the example given in the first post.
For international purposes, Prince Edward island is only connected to the rest of Canada via two lanes
Nokia Lumia 810
Quote[Delmarva Peninsula]
U.S. 13 - 4 lanes
Md. 12/Va. 679 - 2 lanes
There are at least 11 public road crossings (plus several other private crossings) of the MD/VA line on the Delmarva besides US 13 and MD 12/SR 679. I've been on 3 of them.
Quote from: 1 on May 26, 2014, 10:20:44 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 26, 2014, 12:18:01 AM
Also not a winner, but fairly low: New Jersey and Delaware share eight bridge lanes, but zero on their two land borders.
That was the example given in the first post.
Oh, sure, everything's clear if you
read.
Quote from: lordsutch on May 25, 2014, 06:36:59 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on May 25, 2014, 12:26:56 PM
There are only two highways connecting Mississippi and Arkansas: US 49 between Lula, MS, and Helena-West Helena, AR; and US 82 betwwen Greenville and Lake Village, AR. I believe both are two lanes.
The new US 82 Greenville bridge has 4 lanes, not 2. And as noted above there are quite a few dirt roads that cross the land border, although I don't think any are paved.
Incidentally I've always wondered why nobody ever tried to build a casino in Mississippi on the west bank of the river.
This came up more than 20 years ago. Two reasons: The existing casinos on the east side of the river didn't want the competition, and Arkansas said at the time it would refuse to provide services to the west side.
Quote from: Road Hog on May 26, 2014, 09:17:24 PM
This came up more than 20 years ago. Two reasons: The existing casinos on the east side of the river didn't want the competition, and Arkansas said at the time it would refuse to provide services to the west side.
What kind of services? Would they barricade the border to another state? Close down connecting roads? If it were profitable, the casinos could buy up some land and build a private road. Would Arkansas shut down all the roads to connect to an Arkansas-based private road, too?
Would they force Arkansas-side utilities not to serve casino areas? That would be unconstitutional interference with interstate commerce, so the US Congress would have to regulate it instead. I wouldn't expect them to be favorable to casinos, but would they affirm public utilities' right to play favorites? And couldn't Miss then provide its own utilities over the river? Heck, since the entire river flows through Miss territory at that point, couldn't Miss barricade the river to boats from Arkansas? :)
OK, that's getting a little fanciful, but it seems implausible that one state could try to cut off a legal business in another state without serious constitutional implications.
Quote from: New to Seattle on May 26, 2014, 09:47:37 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on May 26, 2014, 09:17:24 PM
This came up more than 20 years ago. Two reasons: The existing casinos on the east side of the river didn't want the competition, and Arkansas said at the time it would refuse to provide services to the west side.
What kind of services? Would they barricade the border to another state? Close down connecting roads? If it were profitable, the casinos could buy up some land and build a private road. Would Arkansas shut down all the roads to connect to an Arkansas-based private road, too?
Would they force Arkansas-side utilities not to serve casino areas? That would be unconstitutional interference with interstate commerce, so the US Congress would have to regulate it instead. I wouldn't expect them to be favorable to casinos, but would they affirm public utilities' right to play favorites? And couldn't Miss then provide its own utilities over the river? Heck, since the entire river flows through Miss territory at that point, couldn't Miss barricade the river to boats from Arkansas? :)
OK, that's getting a little fanciful, but it seems implausible that one state could try to cut off a legal business in another state without serious constitutional implications.
It has happened between DE and NJ.
I heard somewhere that a riverboat casino was planned down in salem county NJ, but since the DE state line is the NJ low tide line...it would be in violation of delaware law, even if they only had access from NJ. In 2008 BP wanted to build a natural gas terminal near Deepwater NJ...Delaware was able to block it due to "Enviromental Concerns" aka they did not want the dredge material to get into DE...Delaware has refineries in it, some along the chesapeake canal... I wonder if that had anything to do with it.
^^^
Sounds like Kentucky's reaction when Illinois first floated the idea of riverboat gambling. Kentucky's northern boundary is the low-water mark of the Ohio River as it existed in 1792. Our attorney general at the time threatened Illinois, saying all sorts of dire things might happen if one of their boats made it into Kentucky waters.
His quote was, "We don't allow gambling in Kentucky."
I'm sure the proprietors of Churchill Downs and Keeneland found that bit of news to be surprising.
The Virginia—Maryland state line (and, by derivation, the Virginia—DC and West Virginia—Maryland lines) is, for the most part, at the low-water mark on the Virginia shoreline (although there are some bays and other features at which the border cuts across from headland to headland). There are various stories about how back in the days when more of Virginia was "dry" than is the case now, various people wanting to sell alcohol built docks on the Virginia side, moored boats to them, but deliberately left a portion of the dock unconnected to the physical shoreline above the low-water mark so that you had to step over a gap in order to go out to where the boat was. Allegedly this was sufficient to locate the moored boat in Maryland with no connection to Virginia. The lack of a physical connection to Virginia was important because the colonial charter, which still forms the basis for the border issues, gives Virginia full riparian rights (meaning you can build docks and other such structures, draw water from the river, etc.).
For example, there used to be a boat "docked" in Maryland waters near Leesylvania State Park in Virginia that offered liquor by the drink and slot machines, but it shut down in 1958 after Maryland passed a law (due to complaints from the Virginia government) requiring that such facilities be accessible by land from Maryland. They could, of course, repeal that law.