Does your city or town have an easily identifiable traditional or ceremonial (not geographic) center point? To define it most simply, the center point is where you'd place the dot for your city if you were drawing a map. (Assume you have to place a dot symbol somewhere, even if the map is zoomed all the way in to street level.)
For example, at the moment I'm in Charlotte, NC, which has a very obvious center point at the intersection of Trade and Tryon Streets. At this point, the E, W, N and S directional suffixes and address numbering all originate, and it's also the vertex of the first, second, third and fourth wards of the city (as well as the newer chamber of commerce branding that defines the North, South, East and West quadrants of Uptown, conveniently offset by 45 degrees from both the ward boundaries and the corresponding compass directions).
For many cities, the center point would be on a courthouse square or similar civic feature, such as a prominent monument. In other cases you might place the dot at City Hall, even if it isn't particularly auspiciously situated.
Where would you put the point for New York City? On City Hall at the civic center? At Times Square, or Grand Central? Or maybe Columbus Circle, which was the traditional origin point in the old guidebooks? (Or maybe you're some kind of wiseguy and wouldn't even put it in Manhattan at all!)
DC is easy–you'd put it on the Zero Milestone. No wait–the Capitol. Or maybe the Washington Monument? Hmm...
How about Boston? On the State House, or Government Center? Maybe the old State House is better, or even Faneuil Hall?
And then there's Las Vegas: obviously you can't put the dot in the Strip, even though that's the best-known feature of the city. Still, it has to be factually accurate and fall within the city limits, doesn't it? Or does it?
That brings us to a case like London–does our dot have to fall within the City of London? Or could it be, say, on Buckingham Palace, or Parliament, and thus actually located in Westminster? (Or do we need two dots, to show two cities?)
OK, enough from me...have at it!
[EDIT: Clarifying that we're not looking for geographic centers.]
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.7956916,-79.4222783,16z
:bigass:
Toronto: it's either Queen's Park or City Hall or Yonge and Queen (one block east of City Hall).
Vaughan: Highway 7 and Weston, near the site of the under-construction subway station, which for obvious reasons is named Vaughan Metropolitan Center Centre.
Columbus is easy: Broad and High. Another good choice might be 40°N×83°W, as it's central to the area over which Columbus has grown over two centuries, but it's not good enough to beat the long-standing, rarely-disputed tradition of marking the center at Broad & High.
Hilliard: Main & Center. Some "residents" might instead put it at "the triangle" formed by Main, Cemetery, and Scioto Darby and containing a Donato's Pizza; some might even put it at Hilliard—Rome & Renner, but they are quite wrong.
Grove City: Broadway & Columbus, or maybe Broadway & Grove City Rd?
West Jefferson: Main & Walnut, probably.
Dublin: traditionally Bridge & High, today maybe Avery-Muirfield & Perimeter, in the future possibly Bridge & Riverside.
Galloway: Galloway & O'Harra (& the Camp Chase Industrial Railroad, formerly New York Central) but most people who live "in Galloway" have no clue.
I guess Ohio cities are pretty easy, as nearly all of them began as small platted grids with an obvious center.
Quote from: sammi on May 30, 2014, 01:13:54 AM
Toronto: it's either Queen's Park or City Hall or Yonge and Queen (one block east of City Hall).
Yeah, that's another tough one...obviously Queen's Park or the Legislature building makes sense, except it's a little way off from the city's commercial heart (sometimes the centerpoint of a province or state is not coincident with the centerpoint of the city it's in). I feel like Toronto's has to be on Yonge somewhere, either at Queen or maybe Dundas Square (or is that too touristy to be the genuine center?).
Quote from: empirestate on May 30, 2014, 01:55:18 AM
Quote from: sammi on May 30, 2014, 01:13:54 AM
Toronto: it's either Queen's Park or City Hall or Yonge and Queen (one block east of City Hall).
Yeah, that's another tough one...obviously Queen's Park or the Legislature building makes sense, except it's a little way off from the city's commercial heart (sometimes the centerpoint of a province or state is not coincident with the centerpoint of the city it's in). I feel like Toronto's has to be on Yonge somewhere, either at Queen or maybe Dundas Square (or is that too touristy to be the genuine center?).
I took a brief look at GMaps and thought Queen looked like an important axis, and of the arterials which intersect it, University looked to be the most central.
Looking at other major cities to which I am not at all a local:
NYC: 34th and Ave of the Americas (Google seems to put the dot near the west end of Brooklyn Bridge approach)
Chicago: Congress & Michigan
Houston: Main & Dallas
LA: 6th & Grand
I'm sure locals will disagree with me on these.
In San Francisco, it at least was at Mount Olympus which is topped by a statue that's now shrouded in overgrown trees. Apparently the true center has shifted in the past century due to landfill on the bay side. So now it's probably further south and east...I'd think in Noe Valley somewhere.
Denver: Either 16th and California, or Colfax and Broadway.
Fort Collins: College and Mountain (only streets in original grid to have 140' wide Rights-of-Way; all others were 100')
Atlanta's is Five Points: the intersection of Peachtree, Marietta and Decatur Streets with Edgewood Avenue.
The U.S. Capitol is where Washington D.C.'s four quadrants (NW, NE, SW, SE) meet, and the street grid works off of. It might once have been more or less at the perfect geographic center point (perhaps tweaked a little, to put the Capitol on ground more solid than a drained swamp), but no longer after the parts of D.C. west of the Potomac were returned to Virginia.
If the D.C. street grid ever extended west of the Potomac (why would it, with so few river crossings, all built post-retrocession?), it seems no trace of it remains in what are now Arlington County and part of Alexandria city.
QuoteAnd then there's Las Vegas: obviously you can't put the dot in the Strip, even though that's the best-known feature of the city. Still, it has to be factually accurate and fall within the city limits, doesn't it? Or does it?
That's a trick question. Freemont Street would probably be the 'center' point of Las Vegas. Why not the Strip? Because the Strip isn't in Las Vegas! The Strip is in an unincorporated part of the county.
In Philadelphia, the center point would easily be City Hall, in which Broad and Market Streets form a one-way square of travel around it.
In my current city of Jeffersonville, I would put the dot at the intersection of Spring St. and Court Ave.
Other Indiana cities:
Indianapolis - Monument Circle (duh)
South Bend - Michigan St and Colfax Ave
Elkhart - Main St. and Jackson Blvd.
Goshen - Main St. and Lincoln Ave.
Plymouth - Michigan St. and Lincoln Hwy.
On any map that would be at a scale that would use a dot, all those Boston examples end up being in the same place — their dots are indistinguishable.
Quote from: vtk on May 30, 2014, 02:21:13 AM
Looking at other major cities to which I am not at all a local:
Chicago: Congress & Michigan
I'm not so sure I'd go quite so far north for Chicago, and maybe further west - O'Hare skews the center point a bit. I'd probably pick Cermak (22nd St) and Kedzie due to O'Hare on one end, and the South Side extending down to 140th St (over 16 miles south of Madison and State) on the other end.
As for my city, Joliet's has moved west over time as land has been annexed to the west. Currently, I'd say it's somewhere near or at the Inwood Golf Course on the West Side near Essington and Jefferson (US-52).
Quote from: vtk on May 30, 2014, 02:04:48 AM
I took a brief look at GMaps and thought Queen looked like an important axis, and of the arterials which intersect it, University looked to be the most central.
They're a bit different in feel: Yonge definitely feels more centrally urban, while University seems more like a street on the periphery of an urban core. I think if you really came down to it, Bay St. would end up being the most central–which brings us back to the idea that maybe City Hall is the right spot.
Quote from: vtk on May 30, 2014, 02:21:13 AM
Looking at other major cities to which I am not at all a local:
NYC: 34th and Ave of the Americas (Google seems to put the dot near the west end of Brooklyn Bridge approach)
Google's dot would be at City Hall, then. Your spot is pretty reasonable, too. That's Herald Square and is a major commercial focus, and 6th Ave. does feel like the central thoroughfare of Midtown. What it comes to is whether you deem the locus of the city to be in Midtown, or in Lower Manhattan, which is the historic, financial and political core.
QuoteChicago: Congress & Michigan
Chicago has a N, S, E, W nexus at State and Madison, so that's where I'd put it.
Quote from: briantroutman on May 30, 2014, 02:31:14 AM
In San Francisco, it at least was at Mount Olympus which is topped by a statue that's now shrouded in overgrown trees. Apparently the true center has shifted in the past century due to landfill on the bay side. So now it's probably further south and east...I'd think in Noe Valley somewhere.
Quote from: Brandon on May 30, 2014, 10:20:28 AM
I'm not so sure I'd go quite so far north for Chicago, and maybe further west - O'Hare skews the center point a bit. I'd probably pick Cermak (22nd St) and Kedzie due to O'Hare on one end, and the South Side extending down to 140th St (over 16 miles south of Madison and State) on the other end.
As for my city, Joliet's has moved west over time as land has been annexed to the west. Currently, I'd say it's somewhere near or at the Inwood Golf Course on the West Side near Essington and Jefferson (US-52).
Sounds like you guys are thinking of the geographic center, which I don't think many mapmakers would chose for their center point (otherwise, cities like Juneau would be very misleadingly depicted!). It's usually going to be some kind of discernible social, political or commercial center, or better yet, an established ceremonial point or traditional locus. For San Francisco, I think this would be on Market St. at either Montgomery or California–certainly nowhere beyond the triangle of those three streets.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2014, 06:19:13 AM
QuoteAnd then there's Las Vegas: obviously you can't put the dot in the Strip, even though that's the best-known feature of the city. Still, it has to be factually accurate and fall within the city limits, doesn't it? Or does it?
That's a trick question. Freemont Street would probably be the 'center' point of Las Vegas. Why not the Strip? Because the Strip isn't in Las Vegas! The Strip is in an unincorporated part of the county.
Not meant to be a trick; in fact, it's meant as a legitimate question for the very reason you've stated!
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 30, 2014, 08:03:12 AM
On any map that would be at a scale that would use a dot, all those Boston examples end up being in the same place — their dots are indistinguishable.
That's very true, but remember that part of the exercise is to assume you have to choose a spot, even at a much closer zoom level than would be cartographically appropriate. The dot-on-a-map symbol is just a guide to illustrate the type of location we're looking for.
I'm also curious where you'd mark the center for a lot of the newer core-less cities, such as Irvine, CA and most of the others in south Orange County, or perhaps the Minneapolis suburbs that are essentially incorporated MCDs.
Oh, I misread that question entirely. You want a NON-geographic point of a city?
Trenton - The Battle Monument, hands down. Symbolizing George Washington's victory on the Hessians in Trenton, Trenton's nickname "The Turning Point of the Revolution" is echoed with the tallest structure in the city at the intersection of present day NJ 31 and US 206. Unfortunately, the neighborhood around that parts is beyond sketchy, which makes visiting it... sketchy as well. No other place in Trenton really comes to mind as a center point.
Camden - I would guess the Camden Co. City Hall, located on N 6th St near Federal and Market Streets.
Quote from: empirestate on May 30, 2014, 11:30:33 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2014, 06:19:13 AM
QuoteAnd then there's Las Vegas: obviously you can't put the dot in the Strip, even though that's the best-known feature of the city. Still, it has to be factually accurate and fall within the city limits, doesn't it? Or does it?
That's a trick question. Freemont Street would probably be the 'center' point of Las Vegas. Why not the Strip? Because the Strip isn't in Las Vegas! The Strip is in an unincorporated part of the county.
Not meant to be a trick; in fact, it's meant as a legitimate question for the very reason you've stated!
Since I was tricked by the non-trickiness of the question, what a lot of people refer to then at 'Center Strip' is the area around Bellagio, Caesars, Flamingo, & Ballys, which to most people would be the Center of Las Vegas.
Quote from: Zeffy on May 30, 2014, 11:49:57 AM
Oh, I misread that question entirely. You want a NON-geographic point of a city?
Trenton - The Battle Monument, hands down. Symbolizing George Washington's victory on the Hessians in Trenton, Trenton's nickname "The Turning Point of the Revolution" is echoed with the tallest structure in the city at the intersection of present day NJ 31 and US 206. Unfortunately, the neighborhood around that parts is beyond sketchy, which makes visiting it... sketchy as well. No other place in Trenton really comes to mind as a center point.
I would argue the State House is the center point of the city. Yes, it really doesn't have anything to do with the city itself, but for most people talking about or visiting the city, the State House would be the destination for many of those visitors.
Quote from: Zeffy on May 30, 2014, 11:49:57 AM
Oh, I misread that question entirely. You want a NON-geographic point of a city?
I thought much the same thing, the point of where a city would be balanced if placed on a pin or a pole.
Well, I can see the following, just around NE Illinois:
Chicago: State and Madison, maybe Michigan and the Chicago River (part way between State and the Mag Mile)
Joliet: Jefferson and Ottawa
Aurora: Galena Blvd and the Fox River (Stolp Island)
Naperville: Washington and Chicago
Plainfield: IL-59 and Lockport St
Lockport: State (IL-171) and 9th (IL-7)
London has a skyscraper next to Tottenham Court Road tube station called "Centre Point". It got the name as it is the centre of the tube map (where the horizontal Central Line and vertical Northern Line cross - the original Beck tube map treated those routes as defining the map), and will get Crossrail and Crossrail 2 to reinforce its centrality. However, it isn't really the centre and certainly doesn't feel like it.
Roadwise, Bank is the hub of the road network, and Charing Cross where distances are measured to.
Arguably, Trafalgar Square, right next to Charing Cross, is the centre - on the edge of the West End (shopping/entertainment centre), on the edge of the political centre at Westminster, though someway away from the traditional business centre in The City - certainly it is at the focal point of roads between them though. Trafalgar Square feels like a hub where action happens, but that has a lot to do with being a large open space near to where it actually happens, rather than lots happening there (other than tourism and occasional events). I'd still say it is the centre of London.
San Diego's political center is very much not the geographic center. Google Maps gives us Broadway at 4th. most of the government buildings, including City Hall and various county offices, are about two blocks west of there, but I'd say 4th is close enough.
Phoenix would have to be Central Ave and Washington St
Back to Toronto... :spin:
I picked Yonge because it's the axis of the street grid: street names change from East to West (and vice versa) upon crossing Yonge Street. One major grid street even changes names (Wilson to York Mills).
I don't know about Queen, but it just looks like the most viable candidate for a major east-west street. Eglinton and Bloor are both too far north, and Front is too far south. So Yonge and Queen it is.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fg3sf.x10.mx%2Fimg%2Ftoronto1.png&hash=72d2b44495841f95dc6fd615efabb43263de2431)
Looks off, doesn't it? The real geographical center would be near Bayview and Eglinton.
Laying it over the pre-amalgamation boundaries, Yonge and Queen is more geographically centered, but I think roughly Bloor would be the actual center of the old City of Toronto.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fg3sf.x10.mx%2Fimg%2Ftoronto2.png&hash=37a8eec0ff2708a21f0371e4acaf8e96b3799e31)
A few other parts of Toronto come to mind: North York gets Yonge and Park Home / Empress, near the location of North York Civic Centre and the North York Centre subway station. Scarborough is Scarborough Town Centre at Ellesmere and McCowan (which I may have misplaced on the map) and the Scarborough Centre RT station.
For any city with 4 quadrants, even if the quadrants aren't equal the intersection of those quadrants becomes the center:
Washington DC - US Capitol
Miami - Flagler & Miami Ave
For cities with N, S, E, W addresses, I'd say you pick the zero point of the addresses:
Chicago - State & Madison
Los Angeles - 1st & Main
Portland, OR - Burnside at the River
Baltimore - Charles & Baltimore
Atlanta - 5 Points
Some cities have unique systems where you have to go away from the above to pick the centerpoint. Including many cities that count zero from the river, ocean, or other boundary of the town. There, it's a matter of personal preferences.
Seattle - 4th & Madison.
San Francisco - Market & First
Philadelphia - City Hall
New York - Herald Square
Pittsburgh - Market Square
Boston - Washington and State
Cleveland - Superior & Ontario in Public Square
Geographic Center is a little harder to do, but probably more interesting. Should we set up a new thread to discuss?
Davenport: Either River and Brady (where the street numbering is centered) or River and Main (a block west).
Bettendorf: the foot of the I-74 bridge. That one is a bit harder, though, since it's basically a suburb.
Moline: John Deere Pavilion (River and 15th St)
Rock Island: 1st Ave and 17th St
Peoria, IL (just a guess): Main and Washington
Lansing, MI: the Capitol. That's an easy one. Likewise,
Iowa City, IA: the old Capitol.
Valparaiso, IN: This would definitely have to be somewhere on Lincolnway, probably at the courthouse (Washington St)
London - there would also be an argument to be made for London Bridge, the bridgeable point in the river there is why there's a city there.
Seattle - Westlake Park at 4th and Pine.
San Francisco - Union Square. Runners up would be the Civic Center plaza, as it's not only pretty but also the center of power; and the Ferry Building where most of the other streets radiate out from.
As I think through this, it's interesting how many of these points are nowhere near the geographical center of the city, even for cities not on a coastline, although some make more sense if you look back at the patterns and paths of development.
For San Francisco, I'd say the Ferry Building (foot of Market Street, at the Embarcadero) has the right combination of major intersection and iconic landmark.
San Jose: Plaza de Cesar Chavez (Market and Park) (also the location of the State Capitol when it held that position).
Los Angeles: This is tough - the nature of L.A. is that none of its iconic elements are located downtown (or at best they're on the periphery). Someone mentioned 6th and Grand, but I can't think of anything there that would say to me "I'm in Los Angeles." I could make a case for a Hollywood location (Sunset Strip, Hollywood and Vine, etc.)...if I stuck closer to downtown I could maybe argue 1st and Grand (Music Center and Disney Concert Hall, adjacent to City Hall/Civic Center), but so much of the adjoining area is given to parking and empty lots...maybe (keeping it in line with this forum) the Four-Level Interchange?
Long Beach: Ocean Boulevard and Pine Avenue.
Quote from: vtk on May 30, 2014, 01:30:38 AM
some might even put it at Hilliard—Rome & Renner, but they are quite wrong.
Let us never speak of that again :)
Hell, I live in Hilliard and I don't consider that Hilliard, haha.
Quote from: empirestate on May 30, 2014, 11:30:33 AM
Sounds like you guys are thinking of the geographic center...
Yes, I completely misread your original post. Pass me the dunce cap.
Quote from: empirestate on May 30, 2014, 11:30:33 AMFor San Francisco, I think this would be on Market St. at either Montgomery or California–certainly nowhere beyond the triangle of those three streets.
Quote from: kkt on May 30, 2014, 03:52:44 PM
San Francisco - Union Square. Runners up would be the Civic Center plaza... and the Ferry Building...
Quote from: DTComposer on May 30, 2014, 03:54:51 PM
For San Francisco, I'd say the Ferry Building
I think it's hard to pick a spiritual and cultural center of the city because it seems to me that there are many separate, disconnected San Franciscos. There's the Financial District SF that is full of out-of-town commuters during business hours and is dead at night. There's the Touristy SF that basically hugs the north end of the city from the Ferry Building through Fisherman's Wharf to the Golden Gate. There's the (relatively) poor residential SF in the south and east... It seems like many people exist within one or two and might not ever see the rest.
I'd say City Hall/Civic Center (or the intersection of Van Ness and Market nearby) would the point that best bridges these different parts of the city.
For the state of Connecticut, the center point is off of Savage Road in East Berlin, CT. For the city of New Britain, CT? Good question! The "dot" for the city is placed on City Hall, at the beginning of West Main Street downtown. A geographical center would probably be slightly north of that.
Boston MA: Government Center T station
Hartford CT: Pulaski Circle
Manchester NH: US 3 at Granite St.
New Haven CT: Yale
Providence RI: US 1/US 44 concurrency
Springfield MA: Approximately I-91, exit 7.
Worcester MA: MA 9/MA 70
Quote from: mrsman on May 30, 2014, 03:19:21 PM
For cities with N, S, E, W addresses, I'd say you pick the zero point of the addresses:
Chicago - State & Madison
Los Angeles - 1st & Main
Portland, OR - Burnside at the River
Baltimore - Charles & Baltimore
Atlanta - 5 Points
Sometimes this doesn't quite work. For Atlanta (which actually belongs in the "quadrant" category), it does - Five Points is the obvious choice (incidentally, it looks like Google opts for the State Capitol instead). In neighboring Decatur, however, this would work out to where McDonough Street crosses the railroad tracks - a pretty good geographic center, but not really the center of activity. I'd instead opt for the old courthouse, near the intersection of Ponce de Leon (historic US 29) and Clairemont Avenues.
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Boston MA: Government Center T station
Not Center City T station?
My previous non-local attempts were based almost entirely on the street grid itself. I didn't check against address data except for Chicago, and that information did not sway my opinion in that case.
Columbus has an unusual problem with geographical ignorance regarding the extents of suburbs. Due to long-standing agreements, the City Of Columbus tends to ooze out between the suburbs. The resulting contorted boundaries between Columbus, the suburbs, and unincorporated areas, can be tough to keep track of. Add to that suburban school districts which don't closely follow city boundaries, and ZIP codes which don't follow them at all, and it gets really fuzzy. Many people never even bother to look at a map, so they identify whatever suburb is named in their mailing address and/or school district with essentially all non-rural areas within some threshold driving time from their house. These are the people that horribly misplace Hilliard, Powell, or Galloway.
Quote from: vtk on May 30, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Boston MA: Government Center T station
Not Center City T station?
I can't find anything that says that there is a station called Center City.
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2014, 10:29:14 PM
Quote from: vtk on May 30, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Boston MA: Government Center T station
Not Center City T station?
I can't find anything that says that there is a station called Center City.
I visited in 2010 and rode the T a fair amount on two separate days. I thought there was a station named Center City, though the spot where it most likely was is now called Gov't Center on the MBTA subway map. It also says that station is closed for remodeling. Maybe it was called Center City before it was closed? Also, the various Green Line branches were only identified by their endpoints at that time, as I recall.
Edit: Wikipedia says my memory sucks. Also, I forgot to mention that when you first said Gov't Center, I thought you were referring to Courthouse, which is where I remember it from 2010, but apparently I didn't remember the correct name for it at first.
Quote from: DTComposer on May 30, 2014, 03:54:51 PMmaybe (keeping it in line with this forum) the Four-Level Interchange?
yep.
mileages to LA on freeways all use the Four-Level as the zero point.
This sort of stuff can change.
The traditional center point of Stamford, CT was at the intersection of Main St, Atlantic St, and Canal St (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.053181,-73.539427,132m/data=!3m1!1e3) - a five way intersection with city hall in the SW corner.
Of course, a quick glance at a modern map will reveal that this five way intersection is today only a three way intersection - two of the legs were knocked out in the late 1970s to make way for the perhaps aptly, perhaps ironically named Stamford Town Center - a typical ca. 1980 indoor suburban shopping mall, with a massive parking garage, and (originally at least, this has since been changed somewhat) no stores that face the street or anything that provides any welcome to pedestrians other than a massive brick wall with a few doors in it at the corners (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.053407,-73.536025,3a,75y,302.03h,94.55t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sIFSFiHmexQggyCpx4ze23A!2e0).
And the building which formerly was city hall is still there, but no longer serves that function. Clearly, this intersection is no longer the center point of the city. Today, if you choose a center point based on where things are the most happening, you want either Bedford St between Broad and Forest (one block north) or Summer St between Main and Broad (one block west). The latter probably wins in general, at the south end is Columbus Park (formerly known as "West Park"), which is the venue for a series of concerts every summer.
Quote from: kkt on May 30, 2014, 03:52:44 PMLondon - there would also be an argument to be made for London Bridge, the bridgeable point in the river there is why there's a city there.
So for Sydney the centre is in the middle of the harbour? For Plymouth, MA, it's some bits of air that directed the Mayflower to hit North America on that rock?
London Bridge was never the centre - reason for the city isn't the centre. While it remains part of the city proper to this day, it's never been inside the walls. Sure, like the area to the west of the walls, it was a major trading area, but Southwark took ages to grow from more than a village - it was that western area that grew, especially once Westminster was established in the 11th century (as a rival power - the City still has
sui generis government and almost isn't part of England*) when Edward the Confessor built a Palace and started rebuilding the church next to it as a Royal burial place, and then in 1066 Harold and William decided that there was the place to be crowned it gained a lot of import.
However, until about 300 years ago, when the West End really took off, the centre was in the area now roughly where Bank is. It's where the Roman Forum was, it's where the roads all converge, it's where Watling Street turned (it also turned at what are now New Cross Gate, Borough, and Marble Arch. Somehow the Marble Arch to New Cross Gate road is a pretty straight road, with Watling Street looking as if it retains it's original course, and if the Romans could have bridged at Vauxhall, that would have done it there). It's where the route out to Colchester (the capital before Londinium) ended. Bow bells, the definer of Cockney, ring out from the closest church to it (OK, there are others a similar distance, but St Mary-le-Bow is on the all-important route west out of the City, Cheapside (formerly Watling Street).
But despite Bank clearly being centre of the City (capital-C), the centre of the city (lower case-c) is Trafalgar Square as it deals with Westminster and the West End. Interestingly, it's been where distances were measured to for over 800 years (source) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2005/08/15/charingcross_feature.shtml) despite there being next to nothing NW of it until the 1700s.
*William the Conqueror built a keep on a unbuilt on small hill near London Bridge, just outside the city walls of London to keep the Londoners in and subdued, not to protect the city. It's that massively famous one, and no it isn't actually in the City of London proper (St Paul's is about the only thing that tourists visit in the actual City proper). When roads were classified in 1922, no classified roads entered the City of London, despite Bank being the centre of the whole English numbering system.
Orange Avenue and Central Boulevard for Orange County, FL in Downtown Orlando is considered the actual center point of the City of Orlando and the county it is in.
Lafayette, IN: The intersection of Main and 2nd streets.
Lexington, KY: The intersection of Main and Broadway. Even though Main St. is on a one way pairing and that isn't where the zero point is, those two streets are both very major and go through the whole city.
DeKalb: Lincoln Highway (IL-38) and 1st Street
Oak Lawn: 95th Street (US 12/20) and 53rd Ave, basically the Library and City Hall complex
Galena: Dodge and Franklin
Quote from: vtk on May 30, 2014, 11:11:26 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2014, 10:29:14 PM
Quote from: vtk on May 30, 2014, 10:26:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Boston MA: Government Center T station
Not Center City T station?
I can't find anything that says that there is a station called Center City.
I visited in 2010 and rode the T a fair amount on two separate days. I thought there was a station named Center City, though the spot where it most likely was is now called Gov't Center on the MBTA subway map. It also says that station is closed for remodeling. Maybe it was called Center City before it was closed? Also, the various Green Line branches were only identified by their endpoints at that time, as I recall.
Edit: Wikipedia says my memory sucks. Also, I forgot to mention that when you first said Gov't Center, I thought you were referring to Courthouse, which is where I remember it from 2010, but apparently I didn't remember the correct name for it at first.
"Center City" is a Philadelphia term. In Boston it's just "Downtown."
Prior to being named Government Center in the 1960s, it was Scollay Square.
Courthouse station, the fanciest bus stop you ever did see, is less than ten years old and has never has a different name.
Courthouse was definitely Courthouse when I was there. My association of "Gov't Center" with that station was essentially a fuzzy match.
Where the heck did I pick up the concept of a station called Center City? I've never been to Philly. I don't think Chicago has a station by that name. The L and the T are the only rail transit systems I've ever navigated...
Quote from: Zeffy on May 30, 2014, 11:49:57 AM
Trenton - The Battle Monument, hands down. Symbolizing George Washington's victory on the Hessians in Trenton, Trenton's nickname "The Turning Point of the Revolution" is echoed with the tallest structure in the city at the intersection of present day NJ 31 and US 206. Unfortunately, the neighborhood around that parts is beyond sketchy, which makes visiting it... sketchy as well. No other place in Trenton really comes to mind as a center point.
State and Broad looks like a good possibility to me, or perhaps along Warren somewhere. I like the monument in theory, but it's a bit off the beaten track.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2014, 12:19:29 PM
Since I was tricked by the non-trickiness of the question, what a lot of people refer to then at 'Center Strip' is the area around Bellagio, Caesars, Flamingo, & Ballys, which to most people would be the Center of Las Vegas.
Which actually raises the point: is there any argument for putting the center point there, if that's the location people are expecting to find when they look for "Las Vegas"? Can the center point be outside the thing being named?
Quote from: sammi on May 30, 2014, 02:14:53 PM
Back to Toronto... :spin:
I don't know about Queen, but it just looks like the most viable candidate for a major east-west street. Eglinton and Bloor are both too far north, and Front is too far south. So Yonge and Queen it is.
I was thinking maybe King, if not Queen (or Dundas).
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Manchester NH: US 3 at Granite St.
Providence RI: US 1/US 44 concurrency
Worcester MA: MA 9/MA 70
I feel like Manchester's is slightly north of that, perhaps around Hanover St. Similarly, I think Worcester's and Providence's are a little to the south.
Quote from: ET21 on May 31, 2014, 12:53:09 PM
Galena: Dodge and Franklin
Why there? There seems to be a pretty obvious downtown area several blocks to the south.
How about Lake Forest, CA? Would you put it at the old El Toro station, since that's the ancestor settlement of the city? Or would it go at the so-named Lake Forest development, since it's the city's current namesake? You surely wouldn't put it at city hall, which is about as far to the margin as you can get!
And how about nearby Irvine? At the ranch?
Quote from: ET21 on May 31, 2014, 12:53:09 PM
Galena: Dodge and Franklin
Why there? There seems to be a pretty obvious downtown area several blocks to the south.
[/quote]
Historic downtown technically does go up Franklin street, as the downtown has almost a triple-decker layout. Since the commercial area does go a bit further north, it seemed to be the best place.
In terms now of what you were thinking, it would be at US-20 and Main St
Quote from: ET21 on June 03, 2014, 02:29:27 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 03, 2014, 12:03:35 AM
Quote from: ET21 on May 31, 2014, 12:53:09 PM
Galena: Dodge and Franklin
Why there? There seems to be a pretty obvious downtown area several blocks to the south.
Historic downtown technically does go up Franklin street, as the downtown has almost a triple-decker layout. Since the commercial area does go a bit further north, it seemed to be the best place.
In terms now of what you were thinking, it would be at US-20 and Main St
Hmm, that's another unexpected choice. For what it's worth, my best guess, having never visited to town, would be Main St. at Perry or Hill, someplace like that: http://goo.gl/maps/D8FhW
Or maybe even at the nearby welcome center, which looks like a historic civic building: http://goo.gl/maps/Ruzwe
Franklin & Dodge, however, brings me to a (very attractive) residential intersection somewhat outside the apparent center of town: http://goo.gl/maps/UIlgx
Likewise, US 20 at Main St. seems to be along a relatively peripheral highway, at the very far end of the main drag: http://goo.gl/maps/iR6Vr
I wondered if there's something at these locations that I can't see from Google, that makes them candidates for the center point?
Quote from: empirestate on June 03, 2014, 12:03:35 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2014, 09:21:42 PM
Worcester MA: MA 9/MA 70
Similarly, I think Worcester's and Providence's are a little to the south.
I am not 100% clear on the question, but if there's a "center" of Worcester I don't think there's any question that it's the Common/City Hall block (you know, where the development called Worcester Center was built). Belmont at Lincoln (9/70) is off at one edge of downtown.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 04, 2014, 10:46:35 AM
I am not 100% clear on the question, but if there's a "center" of Worcester I don't think there's any question that it's the Common/City Hall block (you know, where the development called Worcester Center was built). Belmont at Lincoln (9/70) is off at one edge of downtown.
Having lived in Worcester for 21 years, I'm *very* clear on the question, and you are correct. No way the 9/70 junction is the "center of town."
Quote from: SidS1045 on June 04, 2014, 02:32:39 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 04, 2014, 10:46:35 AM
I am not 100% clear on the question, but if there's a "center" of Worcester I don't think there's any question that it's the Common/City Hall block (you know, where the development called Worcester Center was built). Belmont at Lincoln (9/70) is off at one edge of downtown.
Having lived in Worcester for 21 years, I'm *very* clear on the question, and you are correct. No way the 9/70 junction is the "center of town."
Having only visited in passing, I would definitely agree with that assessment. However, I can see how the 9/70 junction might appear as a center when depicted on a map that favors highways.
Montréal: Hmm... Rue Sainte-Catherine and Rue Saint-Laurent?
Ottawa: Wellington Street and either Elgin Street or Bank Street... not sure.
Beauharnois: Rue Ellice and Rue Richardson. Because I said so.
Longueuil: I'd say Rue Saint-Charles and Place Charles-Le Moyne.
Mount Holly NJ, i would place it on county route 537 that cuts right down the center of town, either place it at the post office or the corner of 537 and High St
For Cincinnati, I'd say 5th & Vine (a corner of Fountain Square).
My hometown of Highland Heights is tricky. I place the centerpoint at Main & Renshaw, since that's where the city's original model home was.
Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on June 04, 2014, 04:56:34 PM
Montréal: Hmm... Rue Sainte-Catherine and Rue Saint-Laurent?
Do you mean Boulevard Saint-Laurent? I was guessing further south at Place du Canada/Gare Central.
Manila:
https://www.google.com/maps/@14.5829713,120.9786119,16z
Rizal Park, km 0 of all Philippine highways. (You could also say this is the center point of the entire country.) I don't know where to put the exact point, but the km 0 monument is on the side facing Roxas Blvd. Other alternatives would be Intramuros (the bunch of streets just north of there) and near Central Terminal metro station, also roughly in the same area.
Baguio:
https://www.google.com/maps/@16.4108943,120.5944883,17z
I'd probably put the center right in the middle of Burnham Lake.
Quote from: empirestate on June 03, 2014, 03:34:52 PM
Quote from: ET21 on June 03, 2014, 02:29:27 PM
Quote from: empirestate on June 03, 2014, 12:03:35 AM
Quote from: ET21 on May 31, 2014, 12:53:09 PM
Galena: Dodge and Franklin
Why there? There seems to be a pretty obvious downtown area several blocks to the south.
Historic downtown technically does go up Franklin street, as the downtown has almost a triple-decker layout. Since the commercial area does go a bit further north, it seemed to be the best place.
In terms now of what you were thinking, it would be at US-20 and Main St
Hmm, that's another unexpected choice. For what it's worth, my best guess, having never visited to town, would be Main St. at Perry or Hill, someplace like that: http://goo.gl/maps/D8FhW
Or maybe even at the nearby welcome center, which looks like a historic civic building: http://goo.gl/maps/Ruzwe
Franklin & Dodge, however, brings me to a (very attractive) residential intersection somewhat outside the apparent center of town: http://goo.gl/maps/UIlgx
Likewise, US 20 at Main St. seems to be along a relatively peripheral highway, at the very far end of the main drag: http://goo.gl/maps/iR6Vr
I wondered if there's something at these locations that I can't see from Google, that makes them candidates for the center point?
There are some businesses and city services if you were turning left at Main (assuming you're going west on 20). The local paper (Gazette) along with a boating and canoe shop are down the road.
I do get what you're looking for though, I just tend to centralize the point for Galena considering the town boundaries and not the central business district.
Quote from: ET21 on June 05, 2014, 01:02:02 PM
I do get what you're looking for though, I just tend to centralize the point for Galena considering the town boundaries and not the central business district.
I see; you're thinking of perhaps a slightly different question then. It seems to me that the socio-cultural, or ethno-historical, or whatever you want to call it, center point would not be subject to change if the town boundaries were suddenly altered. It may, of course, move for other reasons, but they would have to result in an actual change of where the center of activity is (otherwise, every city's center point would be the location of the first building ever constructed there).
That said, having looked at this town so much recently on Google, I now really want to visit it!
Quote from: sammi on June 05, 2014, 10:04:40 AM
Manila:
https://www.google.com/maps/@14.5829713,120.9786119,16z
Rizal Park, km 0 of all Philippine highways. (You could also say this is the center point of the entire country.) I don't know where to put the exact point, but the km 0 monument is on the side facing Roxas Blvd. Other alternatives would be Intramuros (the bunch of streets just north of there) and near Central Terminal metro station, also roughly in the same area.
Budapest has a kilometer 0 monument as well. it's on the Buda side, just to the west of the Chain Bridge. given that Budapest is a fairly recent union of two old cities, and most of the buildings of national importance are on the Buda side, something as simple as the 0 stone is probably the best bet, for both the city and country center.
Quote from: empirestate on June 06, 2014, 12:13:26 PM
Quote from: ET21 on June 05, 2014, 01:02:02 PM
I do get what you're looking for though, I just tend to centralize the point for Galena considering the town boundaries and not the central business district.
I see; you're thinking of perhaps a slightly different question then. It seems to me that the socio-cultural, or ethno-historical, or whatever you want to call it, center point would not be subject to change if the town boundaries were suddenly altered. It may, of course, move for other reasons, but they would have to result in an actual change of where the center of activity is (otherwise, every city's center point would be the location of the first building ever constructed there).
That said, having looked at this town so much recently on Google, I now really want to visit it!
The entire downtown area is a historical landmark, really good restaurants, kinda like an oasis between Freeport and Dubuque :biggrin: