Can anyone come up with a logical routing so that US 412 can meet its parent?
No. :bigass:
looking at US 412's wikipedia page, it states that it is a violation of thier route numbering system. Has anyone considered starting a wikipedia page for a list of violations? This way, since eveything on wikipedia is true, we can actually see how AASHTO is ruining the system and how we can keep track of all of their ridiculous decisions. This page can also include Interstates.
Just renumber it as an extended US 58. This could also get rid of US 70-S in so doing...
Mapmikey
List of major numbering violations:
US 400
US 412
US 425
Proposed I-3
I-74 (North Carolina)
List of minor numbering violations:
US 6
US 44 (too far north)
US 46 (too far north)
US 52 (diagonals can't be fixed though)
US 62 (another diagonal)
US 202 (goes way too far from US 2)
I-30 (x0 Interstates should be longer)
I-45 (x5 Interstates should be longer)
I-85 (more east-west than north-south)
I-99
Other violations:
US 4 (not direct)
US 46 (too short)
Quote from: Don'tKnowYet on June 11, 2014, 12:02:14 PMsince eveything on wikipedia is true
When did this happen???????
Quote from: 1 on June 11, 2014, 12:14:08 PM
List of major numbering violations:
Proposed I-3
Is that seriously going to happen!? :banghead:
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2014, 12:19:20 PM
Quote from: Don'tKnowYet on June 11, 2014, 12:02:14 PMsince eveything on wikipedia is true
When did this happen???????
I can't imagine a page dedicated to "questionable off-grid route numbering" is something worthy enough for it's own article. It's probably best left for mention inside the discussion of the route or its system, if at all.
Quote from: hbelkins on June 11, 2014, 12:19:20 PM
Quote from: Don'tKnowYet on June 11, 2014, 12:02:14 PMsince eveything on wikipedia is true
When did this happen???????
I'm hoping there's a tone of sarcasm in there *somewhere* on Don'tKnow's part....
There is no way there can be a logical connection between US 12 and US 412. What should have been done with these US 400-series routes was to number them according to how they would fit into the "grid." US 412 should have been numbered US 464, US 400 should have been numbered US 454, and US 425 should have been numbered US 465. This numbering in increments of 12.5 with these new 400-series routes is rather bizarre.
Easy. From the western end of 412:
Business 25 North
I-25 North
NM 58 West
US 64 West
US 84 West
US 191 North
US 6 West
US 89 North
I-84 West
US 30 West
US 395 North
Quote from: Don'tKnowYet on June 11, 2014, 12:02:14 PM
looking at US 412's wikipedia page, it states that it is a violation of thier route numbering system. Has anyone considered starting a wikipedia page for a list of violations? This way, since eveything on wikipedia is true, we can actually see how AASHTO is ruining the system and how we can keep track of all of their ridiculous decisions. This page can also include Interstates.
Would be nominated for deletion. Believe or not, there are some people on Wikipedia who
aren't roadgeeks, and they have
opinions. Frequently.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 12, 2014, 06:26:44 AM
Quote from: Don'tKnowYet on June 11, 2014, 12:02:14 PM
looking at US 412's wikipedia page, it states that it is a violation of thier route numbering system. Has anyone considered starting a wikipedia page for a list of violations? This way, since eveything on wikipedia is true, we can actually see how AASHTO is ruining the system and how we can keep track of all of their ridiculous decisions. This page can also include Interstates.
Would be nominated for deletion. Believe or not, there are some people on Wikipedia who aren't roadgeeks, and they have opinions. Frequently.
They also have assholes.
Despite being a complete rip off of someone else's page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalously_numbered_roads_in_Great_Britain survives. And the talk page is actually discussing the topic of the page, rather than the normal crap that seems to be attracted to UK Roads Articles.
Quote from: 1 on June 11, 2014, 12:14:08 PM
List of major numbering violations:
US 400
US 412
US 425
Proposed I-3
I-74 (North Carolina)
I compiled a list of
major violations the weekend before the Memorial Day weekend in 2013. Here is the list, in addition to the quintet that 1 posted at the top:
US Route 4. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in New York.
US Route 33. Signed as east-west instead of north-south in Ohio and the Virginias.
US Route 42. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 52. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in the Virginias and Carolinas.
US Route 62. Signed as north-south instead of east west in Pennsylvania and New York.
US Route 68. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in Ohio.
US Route 96. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 98. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in Florida.
US Route 130. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 175. Signed as east-west instead of north-south.
US Route 206. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 211. Signed as east-west instead of north-south.
US Route 218. Signed as north-south instead of east west.
US Route 220. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.*
US Route 222. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 250. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in West Virginia.
US Route 258. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 340. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in the Virginias.
US Route 522. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 550. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
* - Relation to US 11, NOT US 20.
US 24 is signed as north-south instead of east-west in Michigan.
This doesn't even get into all the violations of the numbering grid - for example, US 6 being south of many, many even routes with higher numbers.
But are 3dus highways normally required to follow the odd = north-south, even = east-west rule? 3di's aren't.
Here is an
incomplete idea to fix some of the grid problems with US 64 and US 70 while eliminating US 412 entirely:
- US 70 follows what is now US 64 west from Morganton, NC to Chattanooga, TN. US 70N and US 70S become US 64N and US 64S, respectively.
- US 64 follows what was US 70 west of Morganton, NC to Jackson, TN.
- Extend US 74 west along what is now US 72 Chattanooga to Memphis.
- Move US 72 west from Chattanooga to Memphis from its current route to the former US 64 routing.
- Multiplex US 70 with US 41 from Chattanooga to Monteagle, TN, and then replaces US 41A from Monteagle, TN north to TN 270 northwest of Shelbyville. US 41A is truncated to this intersection northwest of Shelbyville. Multiplex US 70 with TN 270 and TN 99 to I-65. Replace US 412 from I-65 west to the intersection with present-day US 70 east of Jackson, TN.
- US 70 follows its current route from the current US 70/US 412 intersection just east of Jackson, TN to near Bartlett, TN with its intersection with US 64 (now US 72)
- US 70 follows what was US 64 west from the US 70/64 intersection near Bartlett, TN to Muskogee, OK.
- US 70 replaces what was US 62 west of Muskogee, OK to Paducah, TX.
- US 64 replaces US 412 west of Jackson, TN to Springdale, AR.
- US 64 replaces US 62 from Springdale, AR west to Muskogee, OK.
- US 62 replaces US 412 west of Springdale, AR to its western terminus in New Mexico.
- US 72 replaces what was US 70 from West Memphis, AR west to Globe, AZ. US 270 becomes US 272.
This is an incomplete idea though, because the farther west you go, the more complicated it gets, especially when you involve US 62. I also don't want to obliterate US 70's somewhat transcontinental status by replacing it with US 72.
Quote from: mjb2002 on June 12, 2014, 07:51:54 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 11, 2014, 12:14:08 PM
List of major numbering violations:
US 400
US 412
US 425
Proposed I-3
I-74 (North Carolina)
I compiled a list of major violations the weekend before the Memorial Day weekend in 2013. Here is the list, in addition to the quintet that 1 posted at the top:
US Route 4. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in New York.
US Route 33. Signed as east-west instead of north-south in Ohio and the Virginias.
US Route 42. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 52. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in the Virginias and Carolinas.
US Route 62. Signed as north-south instead of east west in Pennsylvania and New York.
US Route 68. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in Ohio.
US Route 96. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 98. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in Florida.
US Route 130. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 175. Signed as east-west instead of north-south.
US Route 206. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 211. Signed as east-west instead of north-south.
US Route 218. Signed as north-south instead of east west.
US Route 220. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.*
US Route 222. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 250. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in West Virginia.
US Route 258. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 340. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in the Virginias.
US Route 522. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 550. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
* - Relation to US 11, NOT US 20.
US 163.
Quote from: 1 on June 11, 2014, 12:14:08 PM
List of minor numbering violations:
I-30 (x0 Interstates should be longer)
I-45 (x5 Interstates should be longer)
I'm surprised you didn't include I-12 ("should be a 3di").
Quote from: jbnv on June 13, 2014, 04:33:49 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 11, 2014, 12:14:08 PM
List of minor numbering violations:
I-30 (x0 Interstates should be longer)
I-45 (x5 Interstates should be longer)
I'm surprised you didn't include I-12 ("should be a 3di").
I-12 is at least a non- I-x0 or I-x5 (major) interstate. The numbers other than those ending in 0 or 5 were meant to be shorter routes. Although I-12 is shorter than most, it fits the bill. I-45 never leaves its state, and I-30 is such a short I-x0 it's not even funny. I-30 should have been used, IMHO (and others) for the I-85 corridor.
Quote from: mjb2002 on June 12, 2014, 07:51:54 PM
US Route 42. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 52. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in the Virginias and Carolinas.
US Route 62. Signed as north-south instead of east west in Pennsylvania and New York.
US Route 68. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in Ohio.
US 42 is somewhat of a diagonal from Cleveland, OH to Louisville, KY. As are US 52 from Charleston, SC to the Canadian border AND US 62 from Canada to Mexico. As for US 68, it actually makes a turn north to the east of Lexington and crosses much of Ohio as a north-south oriented road.
So I wouldn't call those major violations. Minor, maybe.
US 412 doesn't have a parent. It acts as a 2 digit US highway. I consider the 4xx series of US highways to be a modern system of "super" highways. They're not a lot different from the Appalachian corridor system. The numbering does not bother me in the least. I actually think the numbering is neat, because it's different and sets the roads apart from the typical US route.
I'd say renumber US 412 as a child of US 64, since it's possibly the US Highway that US 412 parallels the most. Unless you want to pull a US 87 Colorado and run US 412 concurrently with I-65 until you get to Gary, Indiana/ US 12. :-D
Quote from: mjb2002 on June 12, 2014, 07:51:54 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 11, 2014, 12:14:08 PM
List of major numbering violations:
US 400
US 412
US 425
Proposed I-3
I-74 (North Carolina)
I compiled a list of major violations the weekend before the Memorial Day weekend in 2013. Here is the list, in addition to the quintet that 1 posted at the top:
US Route 4. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in New York.
US Route 33. Signed as east-west instead of north-south in Ohio and the Virginias.
US Route 42. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 52. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in the Virginias and Carolinas.
US Route 62. Signed as north-south instead of east west in Pennsylvania and New York.
US Route 68. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in Ohio.
US Route 96. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 98. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in Florida.
US Route 130. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 175. Signed as east-west instead of north-south.
US Route 206. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 211. Signed as east-west instead of north-south.
US Route 218. Signed as north-south instead of east west.
US Route 220. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.*
US Route 222. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 250. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in West Virginia.
US Route 258. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 340. Signed as north-south instead of east-west in the Virginias.
US Route 522. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
US Route 550. Signed as north-south instead of east-west.
* - Relation to US 11, NOT US 20.
You forgot US 35 in Ohio as well. Its signed East-West as well