AARoads Forum

I enjoy technology. I really do. But, some days, there are some design decisions that still has me thinking "Why?" Here is a few fustrations, and how I would solve them.

• GPS that does not include a "pause" button - Anyone who owns a GPS has experienced this frustration. You are driving a long trip, and need to make a stop because you are either A. hungry, B. thirsty, or C. need to use the bathroom. When you do that, your GPS starts going into the "recalculating" as it tries to figure out how to get back to the main highway as you are parking your car. Stopping the navigation requires pressing a few buttons, which is often a bad idea when driving. I just want to pause the unit from recalculating.
  
• If you can interface with the outside world, get your time - The days of setting your clock by +1-303-499-7111 is over. If your device interfaces with the outside world, then it should be able to set the time automatically from it, whether it be via the Internet via Network Time Protocol (NTP) (I prefer pool.ntp.org), Global Positioning Satellite (GPS), Cell Phone, Radio Broadcast Data System (RBDS) (if the station has the clock set correctly), and through the air via WWV/WWVH. Yet, despite having both a GPS compass and RBDS, I still have to set the clock manually in my car. Most people really don't bother, and their clocks slowly drift off by several minutes. Likewise, if I am updating the firmware of my MP3 player or iPod and have it hooked up to my computer, why not correct the time while you are at it?
  
• Not being able to combine Bluetooth with another audio source - A long time ago, having Bluetooth meant that you had a hand-free headset so that you can drive, answer the phone, and not get a ticket. Thanks to the Smartphone, I can also broadcast audio from my smartphone into a Bluetooth speaker. Very cool. Here is the frustrating part. I enjoy the XM radio that is included in my car (and am looking forward to the return of 40s on 4 station), and I use my phone for navigation. Can I combine the audio so that I can listen to XM music while receiving turn by turn directions through my phone? No. Sometimes, I swear that auto manufacturers are five years behind the rest of the world.
  
• The more critical my data, the less secure my password and account access is - This brings up one of my pet peeves, and it drives me up the wall. The most critical of anyone's accounts is their banking accounts, because if someone gets in there, they can clean me out, and I may not realize it until I get to the grocery store and get the "insufficient funds". Yet, my financial institutions allow only short 12-character passwords with a limit character set, and MAYBE two-factor authentication. Yet, my friend's web forum which can cause me absolutely no damage if hacked, allows a 100 character password with any sort of character sets. While brings me to another point...
  
• Better security... as long as someone else pays for it - Europe has had the chip-and-pin secure credit cards for at least a decade. When I was in Canada last year and ate at a restaurant, the waiter brought over a electronic unit where I could swipe my card, add the tip, and sign electronically, and get a receipt without my credit card leaving my possession. Yet, in the United States, if I was paying for my meal, I have to lose possession of my card by giving it to a waiter, and sign a paper receipt. The magnetic stripes are literally 1970s, and are still used because the cost of a card with a strip is cheaper than the card with a chip. Migration stalled because the merchants, banks, and credit card issues ended up arguing who should pay for the migration. It took the Target data breach to break the logjam.
  

What are you pain points in regards to technology?

Quote from: ZLoth on June 25, 2014, 06:07:13 PM
What are you pain points in regards to technology?

the iPhone's utterly terrible behavior when there is marginal signal quality.  it behaves well when there is signal, and when there is no signal - but in the in-between points, the user can't simply "fire and forget" messages but rather has to manually baby-sit all of them so they don't come bouncing back.

My problems at work are basically annoying IT policy, not anything to do with the software itself, in most instances:

• Mandatory password changes and lockouts after too many incorrect password entries are a pain in the ass. I understand they are good IT policy but it is easy to mistype three times, especially if the last person to use the computer left caps on and you're not expecting it to be on, so you don't check. Having to call up the IT help desk and have your account unlocked is a waste of everyone's time.
• Unnecessary user accounts, especially when combined with password lockouts. To get to the "real" login dialog for the accounting system at work, you have to first type in a user name and password which is just the name of the business. But if someone typos the password on that three times, the account is locked. And since everyone has to use that account...nobody in the entire business can log on until some arbitrary amount of time elapses.
• Automatic logouts due to inactivity. Boy, this one is annoying. Our IT department installed some sort of program on all of the systems that forces automatic log-out from Windows after some amount of time with no user input. However, this makes little sense in a lot of applications, since a good chunk of the systems at work are (1) kiosks used by employees for 5 minutes, used only to access applications that have their own login systems, so a random customer couldn't access critical data anyway (2) status display terminals that run an application showing a list of work to be done, which employees glance at and then leave to go do the work. Having to go through the entire Windows login process for either of these is a waste of time.

I do have problems with the recent trend of "let's 'simplify' interfaces by hiding/removing useful features!" Instead of simplifying things, I have to go on a hunt for my desired feature or kludge some workaround for the lack of said feature.

It's sort of neat that one's Google or Facebook login can be used to log in to lots of minor web services so one doesn't have to remember so many passwords.  But Google and Facebook are so evil!  How much would I have to pay for a login authentication service that was reliable and not selling everything I ever did to every merchant or busybody in the world?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenID might be useful.

Quote from: ZLoth on June 25, 2014, 06:07:13 PM
GPS that does not include a "pause" button - Anyone who owns a GPS has experienced this frustration. You are driving a long trip, and need to make a stop because you are either A. hungry, B. thirsty, or C. need to use the bathroom. When you do that, your GPS starts going into the "recalculating" as it tries to figure out how to get back to the main highway as you are parking your car. Stopping the navigation requires pressing a few buttons, which is often a bad idea when driving. I just want to pause the unit from recalculating.

But I LIKE parking lot directions! (This particular one was from just a few days ago, in a hotel parking lot in Allentown, PA):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi225.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd144%2Froadnut%2F944127BD-B53A-4287-81DE-0C20C72D554B.png&hash=a57abae2222213689824bb8962f2ca2004b329f1) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/roadnut/media/944127BD-B53A-4287-81DE-0C20C72D554B.png.html)

Quote from: ZLoth on June 25, 2014, 06:07:13 PM

• Not being able to combine Bluetooth with another audio source - A long time ago, having Bluetooth meant that you had a hand-free headset so that you can drive, answer the phone, and not get a ticket. Thanks to the Smartphone, I can also broadcast audio from my smartphone into a Bluetooth speaker. Very cool. Here is the frustrating part. I enjoy the XM radio that is included in my car (and am looking forward to the return of 40s on 4 station), and I use my phone for navigation. Can I combine the audio so that I can listen to XM music while receiving turn by turn directions through my phone? No. Sometimes, I swear that auto manufacturers are five years behind the rest of the world.
  

This is actually a "feature" intended to combat distracted driving.

Quote

• The more critical my data, the less secure my password and account access is - This brings up one of my pet peeves, and it drives me up the wall. The most critical of anyone's accounts is their banking accounts, because if someone gets in there, they can clean me out, and I may not realize it until I get to the grocery store and get the "insufficient funds". Yet, my financial institutions allow only short 12-character passwords with a limit character set, and MAYBE two-factor authentication. Yet, my friend's web forum which can cause me absolutely no damage if hacked, allows a 100 character password with any sort of character sets. While brings me to another point...

This is because the entire financial sector is run by by dinosaurs who think "The Google is some thing kids these days use".  Most technology in banking is just an illusion.  It gets ridiculous with checks.  If I want to deposit a check, I fill out a paper form, give it to the teller, who then types the info into the computer, only to have that info taken and put back into paper form and processed in the same manner checks have been processing since the 50s.

Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2014, 09:22:13 PM

Quote from: ZLoth on June 25, 2014, 06:07:13 PM

• Not being able to combine Bluetooth with another audio source - A long time ago, having Bluetooth meant that you had a hand-free headset so that you can drive, answer the phone, and not get a ticket. Thanks to the Smartphone, I can also broadcast audio from my smartphone into a Bluetooth speaker. Very cool. Here is the frustrating part. I enjoy the XM radio that is included in my car (and am looking forward to the return of 40s on 4 station), and I use my phone for navigation. Can I combine the audio so that I can listen to XM music while receiving turn by turn directions through my phone? No. Sometimes, I swear that auto manufacturers are five years behind the rest of the world.
  

This is actually a "feature" intended to combat distracted driving.

Quote

• The more critical my data, the less secure my password and account access is - This brings up one of my pet peeves, and it drives me up the wall. The most critical of anyone's accounts is their banking accounts, because if someone gets in there, they can clean me out, and I may not realize it until I get to the grocery store and get the "insufficient funds". Yet, my financial institutions allow only short 12-character passwords with a limit character set, and MAYBE two-factor authentication. Yet, my friend's web forum which can cause me absolutely no damage if hacked, allows a 100 character password with any sort of character sets. While brings me to another point...

This is because the entire financial sector is run by by dinosaurs who think "The Google is some thing kids these days use".  Most technology in banking is just an illusion.  It gets ridiculous with checks.  If I want to deposit a check, I fill out a paper form, give it to the teller, who then types the info into the computer, only to have that info taken and put back into paper form and processed in the same manner checks have been processing since the 50s.

I take a picture of my check.  What's a teller?  Something that tells? 

Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2014, 09:22:13 PM
Most technology in banking is just an illusion.  It gets ridiculous with checks.  If I want to deposit a check, I fill out a paper form, give it to the teller, who then types the info into the computer, only to have that info taken and put back into paper form and processed in the same manner checks have been processing since the 50s.

Both banks I use have you scan in checks for deposit at their ATMs, no deposit slip needed.  (Other people using online banking might get to scan their checks on their smartphones, as in the incessant PNC commercials in my market.)  Sometimes human intervention is needed (usually the result of my illegible handwriting, or for really big checks), but usually it's automatic and paperless.

With banks always whining about their thin margins on most retail accounts, they seem not at all shy about using technology to cut their costs, though they might do things the old-fashioned way as an exception to accommodate old-fashioned customers.

Quote from: ZLoth on June 25, 2014, 06:07:13 PM

• GPS that does not include a "pause" button - Anyone who owns a GPS has experienced this frustration. You are driving a long trip, and need to make a stop because you are either A. hungry, B. thirsty, or C. need to use the bathroom. When you do that, your GPS starts going into the "recalculating" as it tries to figure out how to get back to the main highway as you are parking your car. Stopping the navigation requires pressing a few buttons, which is often a bad idea when driving. I just want to pause the unit from recalculating.
  

Then don't use GPS navigators. :) You're a roadgeek. You just know your way around.

I've barely used our GPS navigator at all since AARoads; probably the only time was in Chicagoland when my uncle told us to take LaGrange (US 45) instead of I-355 and we got lost looking for US 6.

For my first bit of hate, I'm going to just let Randall do the talking:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fapp.png&hash=97d13825dcc44b6663f82a2031d418e2026e1689)

For my second, I will add: websites which require the use of Javascript in order to display static text. WHY!?

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 25, 2014, 06:37:27 PM
My problems at work are basically annoying IT policy, not anything to do with the software itself, in most instances:

• Mandatory password changes and lockouts after too many incorrect password entries are a pain in the ass. I understand they are good IT policy but it is easy to mistype three times, especially if the last person to use the computer left caps on and you're not expecting it to be on, so you don't check. Having to call up the IT help desk and have your account unlocked is a waste of everyone's time.
• Unnecessary user accounts, especially when combined with password lockouts. To get to the "real" login dialog for the accounting system at work, you have to first type in a user name and password which is just the name of the business. But if someone typos the password on that three times, the account is locked. And since everyone has to use that account...nobody in the entire business can log on until some arbitrary amount of time elapses.
• Automatic logouts due to inactivity. Boy, this one is annoying. Our IT department installed some sort of program on all of the systems that forces automatic log-out from Windows after some amount of time with no user input. However, this makes little sense in a lot of applications, since a good chunk of the systems at work are (1) kiosks used by employees for 5 minutes, used only to access applications that have their own login systems, so a random customer couldn't access critical data anyway (2) status display terminals that run an application showing a list of work to be done, which employees glance at and then leave to go do the work. Having to go through the entire Windows login process for either of these is a waste of time.

I do have problems with the recent trend of "let's 'simplify' interfaces by hiding/removing useful features!" Instead of simplifying things, I have to go on a hunt for my desired feature or kludge some workaround for the lack of said feature.

And along these lines, IT - or management - requiring mandatory password changes for multiple accounts (with varying length and character requirements) over short periods of time (monthy or quarterly) while also requiring employees to sign agreements that passwords can never ever be written down, on threat of termination. How can "they" really expect employees to choose  *secure* passwords when they dock employees who require account resets? 

Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2014, 09:22:13 PM

Quote from: ZLoth on June 25, 2014, 06:07:13 PM

• Not being able to combine Bluetooth with another audio source - A long time ago, having Bluetooth meant that you had a hand-free headset so that you can drive, answer the phone, and not get a ticket. Thanks to the Smartphone, I can also broadcast audio from my smartphone into a Bluetooth speaker. Very cool. Here is the frustrating part. I enjoy the XM radio that is included in my car (and am looking forward to the return of 40s on 4 station), and I use my phone for navigation. Can I combine the audio so that I can listen to XM music while receiving turn by turn directions through my phone? No. Sometimes, I swear that auto manufacturers are five years behind the rest of the world.
  

This is actually a "feature" intended to combat distracted driving.

Quote

• The more critical my data, the less secure my password and account access is - This brings up one of my pet peeves, and it drives me up the wall. The most critical of anyone's accounts is their banking accounts, because if someone gets in there, they can clean me out, and I may not realize it until I get to the grocery store and get the "insufficient funds". Yet, my financial institutions allow only short 12-character passwords with a limit character set, and MAYBE two-factor authentication. Yet, my friend's web forum which can cause me absolutely no damage if hacked, allows a 100 character password with any sort of character sets. While brings me to another point...

This is because the entire financial sector is run by by dinosaurs who think "The Google is some thing kids these days use".  Most technology in banking is just an illusion.  It gets ridiculous with checks.  If I want to deposit a check, I fill out a paper form, give it to the teller, who then types the info into the computer, only to have that info taken and put back into paper form and processed in the same manner checks have been processing since the 50s.

Checks are the most insecure document around.  What else do you own that contains your banking account number, your ABA number, your financial institution's name, and most likely your name and your address on it? 

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 26, 2014, 06:28:22 AM

Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2014, 09:22:13 PM

Quote from: ZLoth on June 25, 2014, 06:07:13 PM

• Not being able to combine Bluetooth with another audio source - A long time ago, having Bluetooth meant that you had a hand-free headset so that you can drive, answer the phone, and not get a ticket. Thanks to the Smartphone, I can also broadcast audio from my smartphone into a Bluetooth speaker. Very cool. Here is the frustrating part. I enjoy the XM radio that is included in my car (and am looking forward to the return of 40s on 4 station), and I use my phone for navigation. Can I combine the audio so that I can listen to XM music while receiving turn by turn directions through my phone? No. Sometimes, I swear that auto manufacturers are five years behind the rest of the world.
  

This is actually a "feature" intended to combat distracted driving.

Quote

• The more critical my data, the less secure my password and account access is - This brings up one of my pet peeves, and it drives me up the wall. The most critical of anyone's accounts is their banking accounts, because if someone gets in there, they can clean me out, and I may not realize it until I get to the grocery store and get the "insufficient funds". Yet, my financial institutions allow only short 12-character passwords with a limit character set, and MAYBE two-factor authentication. Yet, my friend's web forum which can cause me absolutely no damage if hacked, allows a 100 character password with any sort of character sets. While brings me to another point...

This is because the entire financial sector is run by by dinosaurs who think "The Google is some thing kids these days use".  Most technology in banking is just an illusion.  It gets ridiculous with checks.  If I want to deposit a check, I fill out a paper form, give it to the teller, who then types the info into the computer, only to have that info taken and put back into paper form and processed in the same manner checks have been processing since the 50s.

Checks are the most insecure document around.  What else do you own that contains your banking account number, your ABA number, your financial institution's name, and most likely your name and your address on it? 

Back in the day, checks were quite secure because the bank had actual people checking the signature on the check with the signature on the signature card.  But the bank decided to save some money for themselves by firing those people, and making the customer responsible for complaining if someone forged a check.

Some vehicles, if they have a Bluetooth or USB connection, allow you to simultaneously receive GPS directions while having a phone conversation. If you're using 4G, you can easily do this. If you're on 3G, you have create the route and let it navigate first, then place the phone call.

Apple drives me up a wall with their iOS: stop reminding me every time that I don't have a cellular or WiFi connection, especially the latter then I'm using Google or Apple Maps (as well as a few other apps/features which aren't dependent on a data connection)...they may as well remind me to carry a refrigerator with me in case my water bottle gets warm. Please, Apple...If your average customer can't be trusted with a "don't bother me again about this" option, or let them figure it out on their own. You already constantly waver this fine line between cryptic, pretentious, and annoyingly obvious.

Credit reporting...so, which one of seventy-three permutations of your name (full, partial middle name, initial, nickname, misspelled), current address (did we leave off your street type, forget a cardinal direction, misspell it, omit an apartment number), former addresses (not including the one we can't find a bill for, mixed up order of previous addresses), birthdate (two or four digit format, did we use the wrong year or century), and is there anything else to memorize? If you don't hit this Keno-like combination of your own identity correctly, good luck with anything and anyone who works with monthly payments. This probably would make sense in a day and age where people could be trusted to verify this information, but due to mistrust and a dizzying volume of total information overload, neither gets it right.

Quote from: kkt on June 26, 2014, 10:28:35 AM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 26, 2014, 06:28:22 AM

Quote from: vdeane on June 25, 2014, 09:22:13 PM

Quote from: ZLoth on June 25, 2014, 06:07:13 PM

• Not being able to combine Bluetooth with another audio source - A long time ago, having Bluetooth meant that you had a hand-free headset so that you can drive, answer the phone, and not get a ticket. Thanks to the Smartphone, I can also broadcast audio from my smartphone into a Bluetooth speaker. Very cool. Here is the frustrating part. I enjoy the XM radio that is included in my car (and am looking forward to the return of 40s on 4 station), and I use my phone for navigation. Can I combine the audio so that I can listen to XM music while receiving turn by turn directions through my phone? No. Sometimes, I swear that auto manufacturers are five years behind the rest of the world.
  

This is actually a "feature" intended to combat distracted driving.

Quote

• The more critical my data, the less secure my password and account access is - This brings up one of my pet peeves, and it drives me up the wall. The most critical of anyone's accounts is their banking accounts, because if someone gets in there, they can clean me out, and I may not realize it until I get to the grocery store and get the "insufficient funds". Yet, my financial institutions allow only short 12-character passwords with a limit character set, and MAYBE two-factor authentication. Yet, my friend's web forum which can cause me absolutely no damage if hacked, allows a 100 character password with any sort of character sets. While brings me to another point...

This is because the entire financial sector is run by by dinosaurs who think "The Google is some thing kids these days use".  Most technology in banking is just an illusion.  It gets ridiculous with checks.  If I want to deposit a check, I fill out a paper form, give it to the teller, who then types the info into the computer, only to have that info taken and put back into paper form and processed in the same manner checks have been processing since the 50s.

Checks are the most insecure document around.  What else do you own that contains your banking account number, your ABA number, your financial institution's name, and most likely your name and your address on it? 

Back in the day, checks were quite secure because the bank had actual people checking the signature on the check with the signature on the signature card.  But the bank decided to save some money for themselves by firing those people, and making the customer responsible for complaining if someone forged a check.

That's fine...if you're writing a check.  I have your name, address, and bank information.  Why would I write a check and leave a potential papertrail?  I would do everything electronically.

• Websites that are too lazy to write articles down and instead require you to watch a video (90% of the time being played by a flash-based player that makes my computer go into hairdryer mode)
• Awhile back, Busch Gardens replaced the turnstiles at the entrance where an employee would manually check your pass or ticket with turnstiles that used an infrared scanner and a fingerprint reader in order to theoretically improve pass detection and speed up entrance times. The problem is that the readers hardly ever read the pass correctly, and the print reader couldn't get a good print if the user (or users before them) had any oils on their skin (which included sunscreen), which basically meant that 85% of the visitors had to get their pass checked manually, but after waiting over 30s for the thing to try and fail at reading their pass/print. The result was that it now takes twice as long just to get into the park as it did before the new turnstiles.
• Staged update roll-outs, mostly because I seem to always be in the last 10%.
• The generally unusable Hands-Free phone bluetooth systems used in most cars.
• As Scott mentioned earlier, the continued trend in software design to hide or condense functions in software (see Google Maps). While I appreciate the initiative to declutter software interfaces, this is a step too far.

Quote from: US81 on June 26, 2014, 06:16:21 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 25, 2014, 06:37:27 PM
My problems at work are basically annoying IT policy, not anything to do with the software itself, in most instances:

• Mandatory password changes and lockouts after too many incorrect password entries are a pain in the ass. I understand they are good IT policy but it is easy to mistype three times, especially if the last person to use the computer left caps on and you're not expecting it to be on, so you don't check. Having to call up the IT help desk and have your account unlocked is a waste of everyone's time.
• Unnecessary user accounts, especially when combined with password lockouts. To get to the "real" login dialog for the accounting system at work, you have to first type in a user name and password which is just the name of the business. But if someone typos the password on that three times, the account is locked. And since everyone has to use that account...nobody in the entire business can log on until some arbitrary amount of time elapses.
• Automatic logouts due to inactivity. Boy, this one is annoying. Our IT department installed some sort of program on all of the systems that forces automatic log-out from Windows after some amount of time with no user input. However, this makes little sense in a lot of applications, since a good chunk of the systems at work are (1) kiosks used by employees for 5 minutes, used only to access applications that have their own login systems, so a random customer couldn't access critical data anyway (2) status display terminals that run an application showing a list of work to be done, which employees glance at and then leave to go do the work. Having to go through the entire Windows login process for either of these is a waste of time.

I do have problems with the recent trend of "let's 'simplify' interfaces by hiding/removing useful features!" Instead of simplifying things, I have to go on a hunt for my desired feature or kludge some workaround for the lack of said feature.

And along these lines, IT - or management - requiring mandatory password changes for multiple accounts (with varying length and character requirements) over short periods of time (monthy or quarterly) while also requiring employees to sign agreements that passwords can never ever be written down, on threat of termination. How can "they" really expect employees to choose  *secure* passwords when they dock employees who require account resets? 

I often lock myself out of my profile at work after the monthly password change.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 25, 2014, 09:48:08 PM
I take a picture of my check.  What's a teller?  Something that tells?

I wish I could.  my Wells Fargo mobile app makes me line up the image to within 1 degree of correctly oriented, has me do this over and over again, and finally when the photo is acceptable... it crashes. 

Quote from: Thing 342 on June 26, 2014, 01:10:47 PM

• Awhile back, Busch Gardens replaced the turnstiles at the entrance where an employee would manually check your pass or ticket with turnstiles that used an infrared scanner and a fingerprint reader in order to theoretically improve pass detection and speed up entrance times. The problem is that the readers hardly ever read the pass correctly, and the print reader couldn't get a good print if the user (or users before them) had any oils on their skin (which included sunscreen), which basically meant that 85% of the visitors had to get their pass checked manually, but after waiting over 30s for the thing to try and fail at reading their pass/print. The result was that it now takes twice as long just to get into the park as it did before the new turnstiles.

Disney World was no better; the wristbands they've come up with work only marginally better. But you still need a PIN for purchases, due to valid security reasons. Of course, Disney doesn't want you to start thinking of your monthly expenses while you're in the Mousetrap, but there really isn't much difference in time saved if you're still just reaching for your wallet and swiping a card, anyhow. The first time you set it up, you still have to show ID and wait on line to enter one of the parks for the first time.

Just come out and say, "It's for improved data collection and statistics" and stop the damn charades.

I get the idea we're getting a lot more interference and hassle with more technology, and I'm starting to understand why the Grandpa Simpson-s of the world exist.

• Paper towel dispensers. At one time, you pulled a piece of paper out of a slot, a process with which I rarely had any trouble. Today, you must rely on a machine to do this job for you, and it invariably performs poorly, if at all, at this most basic of tasks.
• Broadcast television. Although the year is 2014 and I live within the city limits of my country's most populous city, I don't receive all of the major networks through my antenna. This is not a problem I remember having 20 years ago.

I REALLY hate automatic toilets.  Seriously, in the time it takes to put myself back together, they inevitably decide to flush multiple times.  It's embarrassing.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 25, 2014, 09:48:08 PM
I take a picture of my check.  What's a teller?  Something that tells? 

Some of us don't have smart phones.

Quote from: oscar on June 25, 2014, 10:01:50 PM
Both banks I use have you scan in checks for deposit at their ATMs, no deposit slip needed.  (Other people using online banking might get to scan their checks on their smartphones, as in the incessant PNC commercials in my market.)  Sometimes human intervention is needed (usually the result of my illegible handwriting, or for really big checks), but usually it's automatic and paperless.

With banks always whining about their thin margins on most retail accounts, they seem not at all shy about using technology to cut their costs, though they might do things the old-fashioned way as an exception to accommodate old-fashioned customers.

It's an option for First Niagara as well, and I've used it when depositing regular checks.  That said, most of the checks I've dealt with lately are those jumbo-sized business ones (such as the refund on my security deposit for my last apartment), and I don't know if the ATM can handle those or not.  Plus I often use the opportunity to grab some quarters for my laundry, and I'm trying to get rid of the deposit slips that came with my checks anyways (and the checks, on the rare opportunity I have to use one; they haven't had my current city/address in over a year now).

Whenever I deposit a check, it becomes very obvious that the bank processes them the old fashioned way because any deposit made after 3pm shows up as "pending" in online banking until the next business day.  Plus if it's all electronic, why does it still take check two weeks to clear (note: fully clear, not just be added to your available balance), and why aren't online payments instant?

Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2014, 08:13:55 PM
I REALLY hate automatic toilets.  Seriously, in the time it takes to put myself back together, they inevitably decide to flush multiple times.  It's embarrassing.

There's another thread right over there that talks about why your fellow citizens have created the need for this.  I'll take the embarrassment over the alternative.

I get quite annoyed at apps that insist on promptIng you every time to turn on wi-fi to improve location services. The one that annoys me the most is the pedometer app I use when I go for a walk in the morning around the lake near our neighborhood. It's idiotic: The whole point of a pedometer is to measure how far you walk (mine also tracks number of steps, speed, time elapsed, and calories burned). Unless you're walking on a treadmill, you're highly unlikely to have wi-fi available!

It's another symptom of the programmers assuming the user is too stupid to determine for himself how best to use a device.

Regarding checks, the 20-something crowd seem to take a juvenile delight in ridiculing them as obsolete, and for many purposes they are, but sometimes you have no choice. State bar regulations in Virginia require the use of paper checks for transactions involving client money, for example. I don't care if a client wants money wired. If the bar requires me to send you a check, that is what you will receive.

I still have a number of transactions that require paper checks. My local water bill, for one.

Quote from: hbelkins on June 26, 2014, 10:41:56 PM
I still have a number of transactions that require paper checks. My local water bill, for one.

Or cash. You can always pay cash. :-)

Quote from: hbelkins on June 26, 2014, 10:41:56 PM
I still have a number of transactions that require paper checks. My local water bill, for one.

There are a lot of small-businesspeople that won't leave your property unless you hand them cash or a check.  Though the desk-bound or tech-tied among us may not realize it, there's still a huge part of the economy where payment in hand upon completion of services is required and critical.  Too many swindling douchebags out there to accept "It's electronically on its way to you, I swear" as reliable.  I think there's still quite a bit of naïvete about how a lot of business gets done on the person-to-person level among those who advocate a cashless/checkless society.

I use technology and it does not use me.  I am one of few people who proudly does not have a cellphone.  You should see the stunned and amazed looks on people's faces when I am asked for a cell number, I state that I have none.  Often, they stop and say something like, "aren't you lucky," or "oh, it must be wonderful not having that thing ringing all the time." :hmmm:

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 25, 2014, 06:37:27 PM
My problems at work are basically annoying IT policy, not anything to do with the software itself, in most instances:

• Mandatory password changes and lockouts after too many incorrect password entries are a pain in the ass. I understand they are good IT policy but it is easy to mistype three times, especially if the last person to use the computer left caps on and you're not expecting it to be on, so you don't check. Having to call up the IT help desk and have your account unlocked is a waste of everyone's time.

<snip>

I do have problems with the recent trend of "let's 'simplify' interfaces by hiding/removing useful features!" Instead of simplifying things, I have to go on a hunt for my desired feature or kludge some workaround for the lack of said feature.

^This is my mortgage holder.  Mandatory password change every 90 days, cannot use the same password more than once, ever.  Oh, and the THREE-factor login:  user name then password, identify the photo and answer a security question.  Just to pay my mortgage.   Ya know, if someone wants to hack into my lender's system and make a payment on my behalf, then more power to them.     

:bigass:

Don't freak out, you know I am just kidding.  I understand the need for Internet security.  It just seems that they are trying really hard to protect me from myself.  Meanwhile, the Hackers have simply run amok.

:banghead:

Quote from: empirestate on June 26, 2014, 07:44:38 PM

• Paper towel dispensers. At one time, you pulled a piece of paper out of a slot, a process with which I rarely had any trouble. Today, you must rely on a machine to do this job for you, and it invariably performs poorly, if at all, at this most basic of tasks.

I really hate paper towel dispensers, since they are inevitably set to the size of towel that would only do an adequate job drying a grade schooler's hands. So you have to pull out multiple servings, and if it's one of the stupid automatic ones, wait three seconds each time so it thinks you're a different person.

Not that the non-automatic ones are much better these days. My old job had those Dyson hand dryers (which work very well) but my current one has some where you have to pull a pre-perforated towel roll down out of the dispenser. Of course, since your hands are wet, the towel gets soggy and tears prematurely, so you don't even get the entire parsimonious towel portion allotted to you in one go sometimes.

The ones we had in school seemed ideal. You pushed a lever down to dispense a towel portion, but if you felt the need for more you could pull the lever multiple times in succession.

Automatic sinks are also pretty shit, especially the ones that decide you get five seconds of water and then NO MORE, CITIZEN, YOUR HAND WASHING RATION HAS BEEN EXHAUSTED, GO WIPE OFF THE REMAINING SOAP ON YOUR SQUARE DECIMETER OF TOWEL RATION. I would like control over when to turn on and off the tap!

Automatic toilets and urinals aren't bothersome, since the worst they can do is flush excessively, and it's not my water bill. They should have a button to force a flush if it's having problems, though.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 27, 2014, 03:48:17 AM
Automatic sinks are also pretty shit, especially the ones that decide you get five seconds of water and then NO MORE, CITIZEN, YOUR HAND WASHING RATION HAS BEEN EXHAUSTED, GO WIPE OFF THE REMAINING SOAP ON YOUR SQUARE DECIMETER OF TOWEL RATION. I would like control over when to turn on and off the tap!

The thing I find with most automatic sinks is that the sensor placement makes no sense...it's so high up that if I were to wash my hands where the sensor can see them, I would be splashing all sorts of water outside of the sink. If I lower my hands to a "doesn't make a mess" level in the sink, it doesn't trip the sensor, so I don't have water!

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 26, 2014, 10:28:01 PM

Quote from: vdeane on June 26, 2014, 08:13:55 PM
I REALLY hate automatic toilets.  Seriously, in the time it takes to put myself back together, they inevitably decide to flush multiple times.  It's embarrassing.

There's another thread right over there that talks about why your fellow citizens have created the need for this.  I'll take the embarrassment over the alternative.

Very simple: it prevents the spread of germs. While it's likely not needed in homes, they're quite welcome in restaurants, businesses, and airports. Some are just better at rationing the water than others, some just detect your presence better. Maybe I'm just used to the versions styles by now, but they're no more frustrating than they were a decade ago, just more prevalent.

Can't say I'm a great fan of the air dryers, because there's a 50/50 chance the entire handsfree-and-paperless premise is struck down by actually having to pull on a door handle to leave, rather than pushing out with an elbow, shoulder, or foot. Welcome back, germs...I may have well not washed.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 26, 2014, 11:29:41 PM"It's electronically on its way to you, I swear"

Back in a day, the phrase was, "The check is in the mail."

Quote from: xcellntbuy on June 26, 2014, 11:38:46 PM
I use technology and it does not use me.

Amen!  That's how it should be. 

Quote from: xcellntbuy on June 26, 2014, 11:38:46 PMI am one of few people who proudly does not have a cellphone.  You should see the stunned and amazed looks on people's faces when I am asked for a cell number, I state that I have none.  Often, they stop and say something like, "aren't you lucky," or "oh, it must be wonderful not having that thing ringing all the time." :hmmm:

I didn't get a cell phone until 2007 and the one I have today (my 2nd unit that's only a year old) is still a conventional flip-type that would be viewed today as an antique by some.

My only reason for getting one was due to the fact that pay phones (an item that I often used in my past travels) were just getting too darn scarce and my not having a cell phone contributed to a couple of missed communication issues (including one blown meet that was planned on another internet forum) with those that had cell phones. 

While steps should've been taken on the other's part to rectify the situation (one person knew that I did not have a cell phone at the time); that fact is the busts happened and I had no choice to take matters in my own hands to rectify such.  I found a cell plan that met my needs and budget and the rest is history.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 26, 2014, 11:29:41 PM
There are a lot of small-businesspeople that won't leave your property unless you hand them cash or a check.  Though the desk-bound or tech-tied among us may not realize it, there's still a huge part of the economy where payment in hand upon completion of services is required and critical.  Too many swindling douchebags out there to accept "It's electronically on its way to you, I swear" as reliable.  I think there's still quite a bit of naïvete about how a lot of business gets done on the person-to-person level among those who advocate a cashless/checkless society.

because swindling douches wouldn't try to pass a bad check?  for on-the-spot transactions, I prefer cash for ease, but am okay with a mobile phone based paypal transaction, verified by my own mobile phone.  (I'm far too lazy to get a portable card reader.)

Quote from: formulanone on June 27, 2014, 05:28:52 AM
Can't say I'm a great fan of the air dryers, because there's a 50/50 chance the entire handsfree-and-paperless premise is struck down by actually having to pull on a door handle to leave, rather than pushing out with an elbow, shoulder, or foot. Welcome back, germs...I may have well not washed.

If I had a nickel everytime someone got sick from using a door handle to leave a bathroom, I'd be a very poor man.

Many people focus on that bathroom door.  But at a restaurant, once you exit that bathroom you're still touching the chair, the menu, the condiments, and the doors to leave the establishment.  In other stores, you're touching products, counters, doors, etc.  Even touching your wallet to pay, you're touching money that has been through many other hands as well.

Forget worrying about the bathroom door - that's probably one of the cleaner things you'll touch all day!

Quote from: hbelkins on June 26, 2014, 10:41:56 PM
I still have a number of transactions that require paper checks. My local water bill, for one.

I use my online banking for most personal bills. If the recipient doesn't accept an electronic payment, the bank will cut a paper check and mail it.

---

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 27, 2014, 10:02:11 AM
If I had a nickel everytime someone got sick from using a door handle to leave a bathroom, I'd be a very poor man.

Many people focus on that bathroom door.  But at a restaurant, once you exit that bathroom you're still touching the chair, the menu, the condiments, and the doors to leave the establishment.  In other stores, you're touching products, counters, doors, etc.  Even touching your wallet to pay, you're touching money that has been through many other hands as well.

Forget worrying about the bathroom door - that's probably one of the cleaner things you'll touch all day!

I make a point of washing my hands every time I get home, unless I did nothing other than drive my own car (say, if I pick up my wife at the subway and make no other stops). It's easier than trying to figure out what I touched that other people may have touched.

I seem to recall there was a rather effective pro-hand-washing ad campaign on the New York subway a few years back with signs saying things like, "You are the 423d person to touch that pole today. Enough said." or "The last guy holding that pole was named Sal Monella."

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 27, 2014, 10:02:11 AM

Quote from: formulanone on June 27, 2014, 05:28:52 AM
Can't say I'm a great fan of the air dryers, because there's a 50/50 chance the entire handsfree-and-paperless premise is struck down by actually having to pull on a door handle to leave, rather than pushing out with an elbow, shoulder, or foot. Welcome back, germs...I may have well not washed.

If I had a nickel everytime someone got sick from using a door handle to leave a bathroom, I'd be a very poor man.

Many people focus on that bathroom door.  But at a restaurant, once you exit that bathroom you're still touching the chair, the menu, the condiments, and the doors to leave the establishment.  In other stores, you're touching products, counters, doors, etc.  Even touching your wallet to pay, you're touching money that has been through many other hands as well.

Forget worrying about the bathroom door - that's probably one of the cleaner things you'll touch all day!

I'm well aware of that, but I'd bet that same nickel most of those particular germs would be spread from the point of initial contact, the door handle or water faucet. There's germs everywhere, I go to enough hotel rooms, aircraft, rental cars, et al to not be much of a "germiphobe", but it does gall me to have to shake hands with someone who I've known does not wash themselves.

That said, it only all works together if folks do wash their hands in the first place, especially if you're preparing food, medicine,  coming in intentional contact with others, or responsible for cleaning things.

FWIW, Some properties/rental agencies still require their mortgage/rent to be paid by check and to be mailed to their P.O. Box.   So even if one pays for everything else by phone, electronically or what have you; there's still a need to write out a paper check and mail it somewhere... contrary to popular belief.

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 27, 2014, 10:13:18 AMthe bank will cut a paper check and mail it.

Such might be dependent upon who one banks with; plus could be subject to an additional bank fee (depending on the particular bank's policies).

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 27, 2014, 02:20:56 PM

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 27, 2014, 10:13:18 AMthe bank will cut a paper check and mail it.

Such might be dependent upon who one banks with; plus could be subject to an additional bank fee (depending on the particular bank's policies).

Of course. I thought my comment clearly implied that. The banks we use do not charge a fee for that, BTW, although it's interesting–I used online banking to send a check to my father once when I owed him some money and I told him he would receive a check that did not look like my normal ones. I wanted to warn him of this so he wouldn't think it was one of those scams where cashing the check allows them to change your long-distance provider or some such. Telling him didn't help–next time I was over there, he claimed I hadn't sent him the money. Of course when I went and looked on his desk I immediately found the check sent from the online banking!

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 27, 2014, 02:32:03 PMOf course. I thought my comment clearly implied that.

Not all areas have banks that aren't fee/money-grabbing leeches.  Most banks in the Philly area, where I live, fall in the fore-mentioned fee-frenzy category unless one carries & maintains a rediculously large balance in their account.

But that's another topic for another thread.

Quote from: empirestate on June 26, 2014, 11:27:50 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on June 26, 2014, 10:41:56 PM
I still have a number of transactions that require paper checks. My local water bill, for one.

Or cash. You can always pay cash. :-)

Won't work in my case. I work out-of-town and am generally not able to visit the office during normal working hours to pay in cash in person, and I'm hesitant to send cash through the mail. I drop my payment at a box at the office and they caution against using cash.

Until recently, I also had a car payment for which I had to use checks.

I pay my mortgage with a check, because a one-time bank transfer costs $3.50 (logic that, folks!) and recurring direct withdrawal has just ... failed.  I set it up, they say it will start on the next 16th of the month.  and it doesn't.  and I discover this, and have to send a check every month.

My two current big gripes with technology:

1.  The rise of the robocaller.

2.  Phones that have a bazillion memories for storing phone numbers of people you want to call, but lack sufficient space to auto-drop calls from callers you don't want to be bothered with.

The reason for those two gripes is left as an exercise for the reader.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on June 27, 2014, 09:13:54 AM

Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 26, 2014, 11:29:41 PM
There are a lot of small-businesspeople that won't leave your property unless you hand them cash or a check.  Though the desk-bound or tech-tied among us may not realize it, there's still a huge part of the economy where payment in hand upon completion of services is required and critical.  Too many swindling douchebags out there to accept "It's electronically on its way to you, I swear" as reliable.  I think there's still quite a bit of naïvete about how a lot of business gets done on the person-to-person level among those who advocate a cashless/checkless society.

because swindling douches wouldn't try to pass a bad check?  for on-the-spot transactions, I prefer cash for ease, but am okay with a mobile phone based paypal transaction, verified by my own mobile phone.  (I'm far too lazy to get a portable card reader.)

Do you tell the electrician when he finishes up, "I'll paypal it to you?"  This is the kind of situation I'm talking about, where an individual provides a service where payment is due upon its completion.  Generally cash or check is accepted in such situations.  Given the potential problems with checks, I see your point, but checks are very, very common in small business. 

The HVAC service company we uses takes cash or check only. Period. But a customer can use one of those checks the credit card companies send if he so desires.

It's pretty common for small businesses to want to avoid the credit card fees.

Quote from: 1995hoo on June 27, 2014, 06:28:35 PM
The HVAC service company we uses takes cash or check only. Period. But a customer can use one of those checks the credit card companies send if he so desires.

It's pretty common for small businesses to want to avoid the credit card fees.

I was just at a pizza place last week up in Appleton, WI...it's been around for over 50 years but still doesn't accept any plastic. Luckily, they had an ATM across from the cashier, but unfortunately, it was one with a surcharge :banghead:

For me, there is nothing wrong with a place that doesn't accept cards.
The problem is when a place doesn't accept cash.

by the way, it's versus not verses

Quote from: 1 on June 27, 2014, 09:29:28 PM
by the way, it's versus not verses

I actually noticed the first time, but didn't bother commenting, hoping OP would change the title. :pan:

About the OP's chip card complaint: the US is finally starting to implement EMV. Both of my credit cards now have chips. The US is going chip-and-signature though, not chip-and-PIN like most of Europe has. The card authenticates through the chip but you still have to sign a receipt. This isn't as secure as having a PIN but it will all but eliminate credit card cloning.

Quote from: realjd on June 29, 2014, 07:22:27 AM
The card authenticates through the chip but you still have to sign a receipt.

My understanding was that it was dependent on which company you had.  Honestly, it should all just be chip and pin so that American cards would actually work in foreign countries.

Quote from: Scott5114 on June 27, 2014, 03:48:17 AM
I really hate paper towel dispensers, since they are inevitably set to the size of towel that would only do an adequate job drying a grade schooler's hands. So you have to pull out multiple servings, and if it's one of the stupid automatic ones, wait three seconds each time so it thinks you're a different person.

Automatic sinks are also pretty shit, especially the ones that decide you get five seconds of water and then NO MORE, CITIZEN, YOUR HAND WASHING RATION HAS BEEN EXHAUSTED, GO WIPE OFF THE REMAINING SOAP ON YOUR SQUARE DECIMETER OF TOWEL RATION. I would like control over when to turn on and off the tap!

Automatic toilets and urinals aren't bothersome, since the worst they can do is flush excessively, and it's not my water bill. They should have a button to force a flush if it's having problems, though.

I will agree that paper towel dispensers can get annoying, although I find that about half the time I use a public restroom I will quickly wipe my hands dry on the sides of my pants rather than bothering with paper towels or an air dryer. I can do this while walking towards the door, so it saves time.

The sinks in the restrooms at work are automatic, and automatic sinks in public restrooms have become so common that sometimes if I'm not paying attention I find myself sticking my hands under a non-automatic faucet expecting it to start running, and then taking a second to realize I have to manually turn the tap. I fully prefer the automatic sinks, both because they are more sanitary and because they require less effort to use.

As for auto-flush toilets, false triggers are never a problem with urinals although when you have to take a dump it can be a fun game to see if you can make it out of there with the toilet only flushing once. I find I have about a 10% success rate.  :bigass: If you prefer to wipe standing up this will prove difficult if you do not modify your behavior.
Women, meanwhile, have to play this game even when they just pee, which I imagine might make it more annoying.

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 27, 2014, 02:20:56 PM
FWIW, Some properties/rental agencies still require their mortgage/rent to be paid by check and to be mailed to their P.O. Box.   So even if one pays for everything else by phone, electronically or what have you; there's still a need to write out a paper check and mail it somewhere... contrary to popular belief.

Yep. I get an envelope slipped under my door towards the end of every month with a statement and return envelope in it. To pay my rent I have to write a paper check, put it in said return envelope along with the bottom portion of the statement, and provide my own stamp.

I use paper checks voluntarily for other purposes as well. It's old technology but it works and it's more secure than some of the alternatives. Direct withdrawal requires giving the entity you're paying direct access to your bank account and license to draw potentially any amount of money from it, which is bad and I really don't like doing it. Sending payment electronically requires setting up an online banking account, which I refuse to do since it's likewise a security vulnerability (potentially catastrophic if it is ever hacked into and little practical benefit to make it worth the risk). Paying by credit card is highly convenient and quite secure since you're not liable for any fraud damage, but some places will charge you a fee to do that.

We pay the rent by dropping off checks at the leasing office on the other side of town. I think we can theoretically mail them, but most of the time it's more cost-effective to combine it with a trip to the grocery store or something.

Online banking is a bit of a security vulnerability, but I find it quite useful to be able to check my balance and not have to maintain a check register anymore. It also makes handling transfers between accounts easier.

Add a new annoyance.... late last week, my Galaxy S3 upgraded from 4.3 to 4.4.2 (aka KitKat). The update changes how the phone addresses the 64GB microSD card (see this article (http://markholtz.info/x4)), and I had to make some changes including moving the Audible audiobook files to another location. Google apparently prefers that you use the cloud over the internal memory. :(

Quote from: ZLoth on July 01, 2014, 03:50:26 AM
Add a new annoyance.... late last week, my Galaxy S3 upgraded from 4.3 to 4.4.2 (aka KitKat).

Did the phone do it, or did you tell the phone to do it?  :hmmm:

My iPhone is nagging me to upgrade from 6.1.2 to 7.x, but I haven't given it the go-ahead yet, and hope to hold off for as long as I can, for two reasons. One is the need to re-jailbreak; the other is that I have 7.x on my work iPad and I hate the look and the interface.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2014, 11:35:06 AM

Quote from: ZLoth on July 01, 2014, 03:50:26 AM
Add a new annoyance.... late last week, my Galaxy S3 upgraded from 4.3 to 4.4.2 (aka KitKat).

Did the phone do it, or did you tell the phone to do it?  :hmmm:

My S3 isn't jailbroken, so it was a carrier provided upgrade.

Quote from: ZLoth on July 01, 2014, 05:05:18 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2014, 11:35:06 AM

Quote from: ZLoth on July 01, 2014, 03:50:26 AM
Add a new annoyance.... late last week, my Galaxy S3 upgraded from 4.3 to 4.4.2 (aka KitKat).

Did the phone do it, or did you tell the phone to do it?  :hmmm:

My S3 isn't jailbroken, so it was a carrier provided upgrade.

So it was done automatically, and you didn't have the option not to upgrade?

Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2014, 11:02:17 PM

Quote from: ZLoth on July 01, 2014, 05:05:18 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2014, 11:35:06 AM

Quote from: ZLoth on July 01, 2014, 03:50:26 AM
Add a new annoyance.... late last week, my Galaxy S3 upgraded from 4.3 to 4.4.2 (aka KitKat).

Did the phone do it, or did you tell the phone to do it?  :hmmm:

My S3 isn't jailbroken, so it was a carrier provided upgrade.

So it was done automatically, and you didn't have the option not to upgrade?

Depending on the carrier, you may have the option to automatically allow updates to automatically download/install, similar to a PC. I know my S3 just had the 4.4.2 update released, but it's up to me whether or not to install it. I chose to, since in theory this update was supposed to address battery drain issues (which my phone randomly suffers from).

Quote from: MikeTheActuary on June 27, 2014, 04:20:47 PM
1.  The rise of the robocaller.

Same here. I keep getting calls on my cellphone from one every afternoon that are intended to go to a person whose name is Bryan (mine's David and there aren't any Bryans at my house). Something tells me that Bryan switched a couple of numbers in his number when he signed up for some kind of service and they are calling him for advertising or trying to get him to pay for that service. It's a local number surprisingly too (256 area code).

Quote from: DaBigE on July 02, 2014, 12:20:26 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2014, 11:02:17 PM

Quote from: ZLoth on July 01, 2014, 05:05:18 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 01, 2014, 11:35:06 AM

Quote from: ZLoth on July 01, 2014, 03:50:26 AM
Add a new annoyance.... late last week, my Galaxy S3 upgraded from 4.3 to 4.4.2 (aka KitKat).

Did the phone do it, or did you tell the phone to do it?  :hmmm:

My S3 isn't jailbroken, so it was a carrier provided upgrade.

So it was done automatically, and you didn't have the option not to upgrade?

Depending on the carrier, you may have the option to automatically allow updates to automatically download/install, similar to a PC. I know my S3 just had the 4.4.2 update released, but it's up to me whether or not to install it. I chose to, since in theory this update was supposed to address battery drain issues (which my phone randomly suffers from).

I was prompted to install it. I did. KitKat also addresses several security vulnerabilities, including a broken certificate.

Quote from: Duke87 on June 26, 2014, 12:24:10 AM
For my first bit of hate, I'm going to just let Randall do the talking:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgs.xkcd.com%2Fcomics%2Fapp.png&hash=97d13825dcc44b6663f82a2031d418e2026e1689)

For my second, I will add: websites which require the use of Javascript in order to display static text. WHY!?

Agreed. But worse, websites which require the use of Flash in order to display static text! WHY!!!??? Or when an entire website is in Flash, so if you open it without Flash installed, you see nothing.