OK, so I've lived in California for 85% of my life, so pardon if I sound strange, but I was reading thread
Traffic Signals Now Controlled By Stop Signs (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11946.0), and I noticed how many signals are just hanging by cables. To my eyes, that's unusual, as traffic signals around here are, almost without exception, handing within steel "standards" (I'm sure someone will correct me). I can look at the Sacramento climate records (http://markholtz.info/fz), and the high temperatures would probably bake the cables around here. Plus, the building code requires that buildings withstand a 70mph wind which has happened several times in Sacramento. Yet, I see signals hanging in states which are known to be hit by hurricanes in the past hanging by wires.
Can someone enlighten me on this?
They're known as span wires. It's a less expensive installation for cash strapped states. It does, however, require more maintenance than a mast arm installation or similar mounting method. They are quite common on the east coast outside of urban areas.
The State of Wisconsin bans span wire installations for all non-temporary purposes:
WMUTCD, Section 4D.11 QuoteG. Permanent traffic signals shall not be installed on overhead cables or any other means which would permit significant movement under windy conditions.
Option:
Temporary traffic signals may be installed on overhead cables if construction or maintenance operations would not make post or mast arm mounting possible. If installed on overhead cables, temporary traffic signals must be converted to post or mast arm mountings as soon as possible after the construction operation permits.
Span wire stop lights look very unkept and do not reflect any sense of care by the maintaining agency. IMHO
These are especially common in Indiana, Michigan, and Ohio. I always assumed they were normal in the less tornado-prone states (which might partially explain why the ones in Kansas are often temporary*). I actually like the way they look when they're done well. I consider them "done well" when the signal heads are in a consistent style, when the spacing of features is even or shows purposeful relationships, and when the signs are aligned properly (not crooked). I think span wire signal installations often give a "lightened up" appearance, while mast arm installations can look "weighty." Of course, anything can be done poorly, whether it's hung from a span wire or a mast arm. The difference lies in whether you can observe a clear design intent.
It's usually easy to tell the difference between a decent permanent installation and a temporary one. Here two examples off the top of my head:
Permanent: one of several along M-102/8 Mile Road (although you could probably pick any major arterial road in Michigan for similar examples): https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.445691,-83.170795&spn=0.009089,0.021136&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=42.445694,-83.170962&panoid=dNQSmM6c6MW9AMUSpMUpWQ&cbp=12,243.96,,0,-4.11
Temporary: US 54/400/Kellogg Avenue (future freeway): https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=37.679242,-97.232518&spn=0.00121,0.002642&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=37.679253,-97.232676&panoid=zQIYMBkSag1xeOgPxkgG6Q&cbp=12,68.28,,0,4.29
*5/21/2016 edit: I corrected myself regarding this point.
I don't think there's really any correlation between where span wife states and natural hazards. Over time, various states came up with various standards. Simple as that.
Kentucky uses mostly span wire. Doesn't bother me, and is probably less expensive than other types of mounting.
Here's a recent span wire installation in Indiana that I think is a real mess: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.698566,-86.137476,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU6muZcnACud09s88yoQMjQ!2e0?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.698566,-86.137476,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU6muZcnACud09s88yoQMjQ!2e0?hl=en)
I'm not sure if there is a good solution to this, though I'd like to hear your ideas. If mast arms were used, they would have to be very long, because these roads are so wide. Note that signals are, of necessity, so far back from the beginning of the intersection, that INDOT installed an extra signal face at the near side.
I've driven through here many times, and it does work, but boy is it ugly!
Span wires are cheaper than mast arms, but it depends on the states. Here in Florida it is optional. California, New Jersey, Arizona, and Kansas they uses arms exclusively except for temporary installations.
North Carolina, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, and even some New England States use span wires as their norm with occasional mast arms in urban areas.
To me it is all who hangs the assemblies as some mast arms are very sloppy as much as some of the mast arms are. However, if the span wires are hung diagonally across major intersections with large parameters they look more professional in that location. Box within a box, as Georgia uses, looks too tangled, but I heard from a friend who used to repair traffic signal assemblies tell me that practice is great for high wind conditions as well as the X wire placing which Orlando uses on Kirkman Road at Universal Studios Theme Parks entrance.
Quote from: theline on June 29, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
Here's a recent span wire installation in Indiana that I think is a real mess: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.698566,-86.137476,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU6muZcnACud09s88yoQMjQ!2e0?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.698566,-86.137476,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU6muZcnACud09s88yoQMjQ!2e0?hl=en)
I'm not sure if there is a good solution to this, though I'd like to hear your ideas. If mast arms were used, they would have to be very long, because these roads are so wide. Note that signals are, of necessity, so far back from the beginning of the intersection, that INDOT installed an extra signal face at the near side.
I've driven through here many times, and it does work, but boy is it ugly!
This one if it were Caltrans, would use the short mast arms and side mount signals on each of the four corners. Plus the left turn signals, if any, would be placed in the median on a 6 foot or higher mast pole.
New Jersey would place mast arms from every corner with two arms ascending one pole plus some mast arms extending from the median.
Ontario Canada, has one head per arm, but has one arm from the right side corner and one mast arm from the left (either the median or left side of the road) as standard practice to make the necessary two heads per way.
There are all kinds of way of doing it.
^^ A solution is to put diagonal cables starting at all 4 corner posts then have them connect an inner cable square above the intersection in which the signals are supported so they are closer to the stop line.
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 29, 2014, 02:52:46 PM
(which is why the only ones you'll see in Kansas are temporary)
Not necessarily:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3696/13927636872_fa695d7a1a.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ndJMdd)
48645 (https://flic.kr/p/ndJMdd) by richiekennedy56 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
Granted, KDOT chose a span-wire installation at 6th Street and K-10 because KDOT is looking at making this interchange a DDI.
Florida really does have a wide variety of signal installations.
Span Wire varieties include:
1. box
2. single diagonal wire
3. two diagonal wires
Examples:
SR 535& SR 536
https://maps.google.com/?ll=28.357145,-81.497061&spn=0.000002,0.000774&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=28.357145,-81.497061&panoid=uBDjso2zsikzVM6jMYwm0A&cbp=12,334,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=28.357145,-81.497061&spn=0.000002,0.000774&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=28.357145,-81.497061&panoid=uBDjso2zsikzVM6jMYwm0A&cbp=12,334,,0,0)
SR 436 & SR 426
https://maps.google.com/?ll=28.604094,-81.307319&spn=0.000002,0.001549&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=28.604094,-81.307319&panoid=H1hoXSZBW6XpjrhSbtdqUg&cbp=12,358.56,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=28.604094,-81.307319&spn=0.000002,0.001549&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=28.604094,-81.307319&panoid=H1hoXSZBW6XpjrhSbtdqUg&cbp=12,358.56,,0,0)
4. X
Example: US 301 & SR 44 in Wildwood:
https://maps.google.com/?ll=28.847136,-82.04577&spn=0.000019,0.012392&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=28.847134,-82.045911&panoid=gYsgxhHE-CaG4xR7GgGsfQ&cbp=12,96.37,,0,0 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=28.847136,-82.04577&spn=0.000019,0.012392&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=28.847134,-82.045911&panoid=gYsgxhHE-CaG4xR7GgGsfQ&cbp=12,96.37,,0,0)
5. X with box inside (Can't think of any examples)
Here are a few spanwire set-ups on a wiki I help maintain:
http://highwaydivides.com/wiki/index.php?title=Signal_Mounting_Styles#Span_Wires
Quote from: route56 on June 30, 2014, 12:39:55 AM
Quote from: stridentweasel on June 29, 2014, 02:52:46 PM
(which is why the only ones you'll see in Kansas are temporary)
Not necessarily:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3696/13927636872_fa695d7a1a.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ndJMdd)
48645 (https://flic.kr/p/ndJMdd) by richiekennedy56 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
Granted, KDOT chose a span-wire installation at 6th Street and K-10 because KDOT is looking at making this interchange a DDI.
And, let's not forget a number of span lights in Wichita, especially along Southeast Blvd. They have been fased out slowly here, but it some areas that last saw updates in 1968 or 78, well, they still have spans.
ICTRds
I've always been surprised to see as much span wire as I have in Florida. I'd have expected to see more mast arms there because I'd assume they're more durable. On the other hand, span wire does have the advantage of allowing the authorities to remove the lights and the wire in advance of a major storm like a hurricane if desired. I don't know whether that's ever done in Florida, but I remember in September 1996 when Hurricane Fran ripped through North Carolina, Durham County authorities took down lots of span-wire traffic signals in advance of the storm and fastened the wire around the poles on each corner.
Here in Northern Virginia, span wire used to be the norm, but nowadays mast arms are typical for new installations.
The Indiana example above is an outlier for Indiana in my experience though...usually their span wire assemblies look pretty good because of the "extra" wires (most places either use a cable below the signals or an extra bracing one above; INDOT uses both even with single-head flashing lights). If they'd had a mast in the median of the intersecting road above, they could have had the signals closer to the stop lines on 331, but there would have been a slight angle to everything.
Delaware has always had a ton of span wire assemblies but does use masts sometimes. Massachusetts also has a fair number of span wire assemblies, especially at larger intersections. Ohio loves span wire assemblies as well, including the type with the inner box.
Quote from: theline on June 29, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
Here's a recent span wire installation in Indiana that I think is a real mess: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.698566,-86.137476,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU6muZcnACud09s88yoQMjQ!2e0?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.698566,-86.137476,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU6muZcnACud09s88yoQMjQ!2e0?hl=en)
I'm not sure if there is a good solution to this, though I'd like to hear your ideas. If mast arms were used, they would have to be very long, because these roads are so wide. Note that signals are, of necessity, so far back from the beginning of the intersection, that INDOT installed an extra signal face at the near side.
Two left turn lanes? Three through traffic lanes? Very common in Sacramento. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.678187,-121.271639,3a,75y,23.84h,91.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s75veMmT2waFoX04QvCMpCA!2e0
Three left turn lanes and two through lanes? Sure. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.678187,-121.271639,3a,75y,23.84h,91.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s75veMmT2waFoX04QvCMpCA!2e0
When I moved to south Florida in early 1998, mast arms were almost universal in Miami-Dade County as a reaction to Hurricane Andrew in 1992. There were very few mast arms in Broward County to the north and the ones that did exist were isolated in places like Fort Lauderdale Beach Blvd. (FL A1A) and the like. Broward liked span wires with traffic lights being vertical. Palm Beach County liked the signal fastened directly to the wire itself.
A program to introduce mast arms began in Broward County about 12 years ago. It was a slow process, proceeding as funds were available. New installations or revamped installations were the places that had the first mast arms installed and they tended to be concentrated on the main 6-lane highways throughout the County.
In 2005, Hurricanes Frances, Jeanne and Wilma (in particular) changed all of that. Of the 1100-plus signalized intersections in the County, nearly 98% were damaged in some form during Hurricane Wilma. Entire span wire systems were damaged, missing signal heads, spun around backwards, dangled from broken wires remaining on the prestressed concrete transmission poles, blew away or collapsed into the roadways. Piles of broken traffic lights could found at almost every intersection. The same destruction occurred in Palm Beach County where span wires remained common.
In addition, in early 2005, Broward County had just converted all the red and green signals to LED lamps, the yellow LEDs would come later. To this day, many Broward intersections have a combination of incandescent and LED lamps, different colored partial back plates, black housing and can have an occasional dark green or even yellow signal head.
Mast arm installations have been stepped up dramatically since the last major hurricane season nine years ago and the traffic light system will be in better shape the next time around.
Florida also uses span wire with a thin cable on top with another cable below it that carries the conduits for the electrical power. Also Florida uses a small black box where the signal head is fastened that others who maintain span wire assemblies have a visible clamp except in St. Pete. The city signals using span wire follow the other state's method. Also Florida uses concrete poles to have the span wires attached to which others either use metal poles or telephone poles particularly in both Carolinas.
New York to keep the signal heads the same height have long arms extending down from the span wire as they like to droop the wire.
I am seeing them slowly pop up in New Jersey, such as at this location:
https://www.google.com/maps?ll=40.045021,-74.086309&spn=0.000004,0.00327&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.045003,-74.086658&panoid=-zGVljr9P5qFwIxh07dQMA&cbp=12,274.16,,0,3.99 (https://www.google.com/maps?ll=40.045021,-74.086309&spn=0.000004,0.00327&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.045003,-74.086658&panoid=-zGVljr9P5qFwIxh07dQMA&cbp=12,274.16,,0,3.99)
I hope this is not the start of a trend.
They can create a problem up here in the mountains when it gets very windy by blowing the signals around. In blowing snow the last thing you want is drivers seeing red and green lights at the same time.
Quote from: ZLoth on June 30, 2014, 07:02:02 PM
Quote from: theline on June 29, 2014, 07:32:34 PM
Here's a recent span wire installation in Indiana that I think is a real mess: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.698566,-86.137476,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU6muZcnACud09s88yoQMjQ!2e0?hl=en (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.698566,-86.137476,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sU6muZcnACud09s88yoQMjQ!2e0?hl=en)
I'm not sure if there is a good solution to this, though I'd like to hear your ideas. If mast arms were used, they would have to be very long, because these roads are so wide. Note that signals are, of necessity, so far back from the beginning of the intersection, that INDOT installed an extra signal face at the near side.
Two left turn lanes? Three through traffic lanes? Very common in Sacramento. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.678187,-121.271639,3a,75y,23.84h,91.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s75veMmT2waFoX04QvCMpCA!2e0
Three left turn lanes and two through lanes? Sure. https://www.google.com/maps/@38.678187,-121.271639,3a,75y,23.84h,91.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s75veMmT2waFoX04QvCMpCA!2e0
I think that SR-331 has two left turn lanes, two right turn lanes (there should be two right-only signs), and two through lanes.
As some have suggested, INDOT could have placed poles for masts in the median. They also could have built islands separating through traffic from right turns. Posts on the islands could have also supported masts. I'm sure they were trying to stretch the Major Moves money. You've got to give them credit for making that pay for a lot of projects.
Quote from: DSS5 on June 30, 2014, 11:29:53 PM
They can create a problem up here in the mountains when it gets very windy by blowing the signals around. In blowing snow the last thing you want is drivers seeing red and green lights at the same time.
I have seen Colorado use them in towns high up in the Rockies. In fact I was impressed with the fact they used them that far west as they are usually used in the east.
Quote from: ZLoth on June 29, 2014, 02:18:40 AM
OK, so I've lived in California for 85% of my life, so pardon if I sound strange, but I was reading thread
Traffic Signals Now Controlled By Stop Signs (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11946.0), and I noticed how many signals are just hanging by cables. To my eyes, that's unusual, as traffic signals around here are, almost without exception, handing within steel "standards" (I'm sure someone will correct me). I can look at the Sacramento climate records (http://markholtz.info/fz), and the high temperatures would probably bake the cables around here. Plus, the building code requires that buildings withstand a 70mph wind which has happened several times in Sacramento. Yet, I see signals hanging in states which are known to be hit by hurricanes in the past hanging by wires.
Can someone enlighten me on this?
Maryland and Virginia frequently install traffic signals on span wires, at least at state-maintained intersections.
The District of Columbia almost never installs signals on span wires, except if the installation is of a temporary nature.
ALDOT is a big fan of span wires. Almost every intersection they maintain uses them. Huntsville, Mobile, Birmingham, Montgomery, Dothan, Florence, Sheffield, Tuscumbia, and Athens (all of these are in Alabama) all use plenty of spanwires as well.
As far as Florida goes, FDOT found a way to use pivotal hangers to make them more sustainable under hurricanes. All major span wire intersections in Miami-Dade, and some in Broward and PBC were updated to have them. Meanwhile, some lights in the Tampa Bay area and most recently noted, the US 27 corridor have them.
Even though the mast arm idea took off, span wire intersections are still installed new in Broward. In fact, two intersections near Hard Rock that previously had mast arms were DOWNGRADED to have a diagonal wirehung installed. US 27, and the Griffin Rd/I-75 interchange had wire hungs installed.
Florida uses either of two setups for span wires. They use the double wire mentioned earlier but more recently have installed single wire span wire intersections, seen especially in the Tampa Bay area. IMO the single wires, especially US 301/SR 60 look "beep"ing hideous. Orange County still uses double wires.
Illinois is 100% mast-arms, right? Obviously in the suburbs and city its mast arms.
Quote from: JoePCool14 on July 05, 2014, 10:26:47 PM
Illinois is 100% mast-arms, right? Obviously in the suburbs and city its mast arms.
Just about. I recall one permanent span wire installation that I think Brandon shared with us a while back.
Northern Ohio has been s-l-o-w-l-y converting from span wires to mast arms....More like a trickle over the last 3 decades. Toledo and Akron had been using mast arms the most since the 70s, but both areas still have a combination of mast arms and span wires. Cleveland, and other smaller towns in Northern Ohio still use some of each. But overall, when upgrading intersections, I'd say any given intersection will have a 60% chance of converting to mast arms.
Colorado uses a combination of span wires and mast arms as well.
Pretty much every SPUI intersection in the DC area is span wire... except I believe I-270 and Falls Road, which is one of those "truss-thingy" arms? Anyway, check that out on Google Maps (or whatever aerial map you use) or you can go into Street View.
Quote from: brickbuilder711 on July 05, 2014, 12:44:06 AM
As far as Florida goes, FDOT found a way to use pivotal hangers to make them more sustainable under hurricanes. All major span wire intersections in Miami-Dade, and some in Broward and PBC were updated to have them. Meanwhile, some lights in the Tampa Bay area and most recently noted, the US 27 corridor have them.
Even though the mast arm idea took off, span wire intersections are still installed new in Broward. In fact, two intersections near Hard Rock that previously had mast arms were DOWNGRADED to have a diagonal wirehung installed. US 27, and the Griffin Rd/I-75 interchange had wire hungs installed.
Florida uses either of two setups for span wires. They use the double wire mentioned earlier but more recently have installed single wire span wire intersections, seen especially in the Tampa Bay area. IMO the single wires, especially US 301/SR 60 look "beep"ing hideous. Orange County still uses double wires.
You know what amazes me, is the way the signals are installed even for replacement. When Osceola County changed two signals on FL 535 a few years back, they had one that was previously mast arm while the other was previously span wire. They replaced the two at the same time, but you cannot help if engineers got both signals backwards as the mast arm got downgraded and the span wire got upgraded.
Then again at FL 535 and Poinciana Boulevard just recently got an X span wire mount to replace aging mast arms that were there for several years, but recently a few weeks back another intersection a few hundred feet away two tower posts just got a mast arm replacement instead of them making it all span wire as this is all part of the same interchange. The original mast arm NB on 535 is still there as there was nothing wrong with it, but the tower signals were temporary as the original mast arm for left turn signal got removed years ago, so Osceola County installed a DC type of median mount for the LTS. Now the SB FL 535 has permanent green arrows with two overhead signal heads for SB FL 535 turning left onto EB Osceola Parkway.
I think its the mood of the day of the engineers or the eeny minee mo thing decides if the signal should be mast arm or wires in Florida. Also that God awful green trusses that are used on OBT between the Beachline and I-4 that are hated by all, managed to make sure that a new installation for a Wal Mart near Oakridge Road got one of them. That burns me up on that one as those ugly green gantries are a total waste of our tax dollars.
Outside of cities, the standard in New York is span wire, even in windy areas such as Western New York and the Adirondacks/North Country, where signals often fall down during the 60-70 mph winds that happen once or twice a year. The city of Buffalo uses mast arms almost exclusively and Region 1 has a decent amount of mast arms. Growing up in Lake George, wide roads tended to have span wire, while those with 2 or 3 lanes, especially in Glens Falls and Saratoga County, usually had mast arms. NYC and Nassau County are also mostly mast arms and have been for decades. The new standard up here appears to be mast arms, as every NYSDOT signal replacement I have noticed since I started attending UB in Regions 4 and 5 has used them, many with the yellow reflective tape.
I was noticing that Schenectady and Albany as well as Nassau County use yellow signal heads instead of green even on standard NYS span wire assemblies. I believe Buffalo uses yellow on their mast arms and I think Niagara Falls uses yellow in Downtown near the Falls.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 10, 2014, 08:26:12 PM
I was noticing that Schenectady and Albany as well as Nassau County use yellow signal heads instead of green even on standard NYS span wire assemblies. I believe Buffalo uses yellow on their mast arms and I think Niagara Falls uses yellow in Downtown near the Falls.
Buffalo and Niagara Falls do use yellow, as do Suffolk and Monroe Counties and New York City. Most of upstate uses green to increase visibility in the snow. IIRC, every state installation is green, but local municipalities are free to choose.
Quote from: cl94 on July 10, 2014, 09:35:07 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 10, 2014, 08:26:12 PM
I was noticing that Schenectady and Albany as well as Nassau County use yellow signal heads instead of green even on standard NYS span wire assemblies. I believe Buffalo uses yellow on their mast arms and I think Niagara Falls uses yellow in Downtown near the Falls.
Buffalo and Niagara Falls do use yellow, as do Suffolk and Monroe Counties and New York City. Most of upstate uses green to increase visibility in the snow. IIRC, every state installation is green, but local municipalities are free to choose.
Some states the state itself tells the locals how to erect signals. I like the fact that NY lets each municipality choose, and it makes it interesting to see NYC different from the rest of the state pretty much.
New Jersey, on the other hand, is influenced heavily by the state. Counties like Burlington that used span wires on county owned installations were forced to conform to NJ truss style mast arms and Essex who had loved to use NYS Green were forced to make their signals yellow when NJ went yellow in the mid 80's. Also, I see Newark slowly abandoning the horizontal traffic signals for typical NJ trust mast arms with vertical signal heads and along McCarter Highway in Newark fancy brown monotube mast arms were installed north of LaFayette Street funded by NJ money which also abandoned the old Newark tradition of horizontal heads as well.
However, I did see some places like my hometown of Clark, NJ be allowed to use black signal heads as well as a few places in Rahway. Plus Union County, NJ seems to have developed their own kind of mast arm in the recent years where the arm rests atop the pole hanging over the end instead of it sprung out from the pole like normal. In addition the poles are either brown or green instead of bare metal and I have noticed most signals on county roads in Union have been changed out in the last twenty years to these new design including the Linden Shopping Center which had nice old signal heads mounted from fancy brackets on each corner along Wood Avenue that were so neat.
Maryland and Virginia frequently install traffic signals on span wires, at least at state-maintained intersections.
The District of Columbia almost never installs signals on span wires, except if the installation is of a temporary nature.
[/quote]
Since the early 1990s or so, the vast majority of new/replacement signal assemblies in Virginia (VDOT or otherwise) have been mast arms. Some exceptions exist such as new SPUI interchanges and temporary signals. The last new VDOT-installed span wire I've seen, other than at a SPUI, was at VA-28 and SR-619/Bristow Rd in Bristow around 2007 or so. Since then, VDOT has appeared to accelerate its efforts to replace many of the remaining span wire signals in Northern Virginia with mast arms.
Span wire assemblies are fairly rare now in VA with the exceptions of Northern Virginia and the Richmond suburbs.
-Dan
I don't think MD installs span wire anymore: all new installations I've seen are mast arms. In the older suburbs, though (closer into the city but not urban areas), there still exist mostly span wire installations, but they're being replaced by mast arms as they fall into disrepair, I think.
Quote from: brickbuilder711 on July 05, 2014, 12:44:06 AM
As far as Florida goes, FDOT found a way to use pivotal hangers to make them more sustainable under hurricanes. All major span wire intersections in Miami-Dade, and some in Broward and PBC were updated to have them. Meanwhile, some lights in the Tampa Bay area and most recently noted, the US 27 corridor have them.
Even though the mast arm idea took off, span wire intersections are still installed new in Broward. In fact, two intersections near Hard Rock that previously had mast arms were DOWNGRADED to have a diagonal wirehung installed. US 27, and the Griffin Rd/I-75 interchange had wire hungs installed.
Florida uses either of two setups for span wires. They use the double wire mentioned earlier but more recently have installed single wire span wire intersections, seen especially in the Tampa Bay area. IMO the single wires, especially US 301/SR 60 look "beep"ing hideous. Orange County still uses double wires.
The single wire setups are MUCH better able to withstand hurricanes:
http://www.dot.state.fl.us/structures/structuresresearchcenter/Final%20Reports/BD545_57.pdf
http://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/8501343983/in/photostream/
I hope that MD and VA do not get sloppy like this here assembly in Texas lol!
You are right, though about MD and VA. All through the 90's when clinching US 1 I have found both VA and MD increasing the number of mast arms quite dramatically.
There are still quite a few span wire intersections around. Maryland seems to only be converting the ones that are falling apart to mast arms. However, all the intersections seem to be getting new black visor yellow back signals. Take for example, MD 2, or Ritchie Hwy. I can't think of a single signal from here to MD 100 that is not now yellow and black, though there are still a few span wires in between.
I only see spanned wires in construction zones
Quote from: kj3400 on July 24, 2014, 02:42:56 PM
There are still quite a few span wire intersections around. Maryland seems to only be converting the ones that are falling apart to mast arms. However, all the intersections seem to be getting new black visor yellow back signals. Take for example, MD 2, or Ritchie Hwy. I can't think of a single signal from here to MD 100 that is not now yellow and black, though there are still a few span wires in between.
Baltimore City still uses the span wires. In fact I believe they still paint the poles green like the entire state did back in the 60's and 70's. I used to think that was neat seeing the dark green strain poles as that is just like the concrete one's that Florida uses.
Incidentally US 13 in Norfolk used to have Jersey Trust mast arms at the first intersection north of I-64. Now they use a Florida span wire system with the concrete poles on the four corners. What is interesting about that one is both times they used other state practices.
I was surprised to see so many signals on span wires in the downtown business district of Pittsburgh when I was there last weekend.
Here in NC span wire seems to be the rule. Even in new signal installations or conversions to new assemblies as permissive yellow phases in, they are most typically done on span wire.
There are a few spanned lights in Rockford. District 2 is very inconsistent in their mounting of lights
Quote from: roadman65 on July 24, 2014, 07:10:05 PM
Quote from: kj3400 on July 24, 2014, 02:42:56 PM
There are still quite a few span wire intersections around. Maryland seems to only be converting the ones that are falling apart to mast arms. However, all the intersections seem to be getting new black visor yellow back signals. Take for example, MD 2, or Ritchie Hwy. I can't think of a single signal from here to MD 100 that is not now yellow and black, though there are still a few span wires in between.
Baltimore City still uses the span wires. In fact I believe they still paint the poles green like the entire state did back in the 60's and 70's. I used to think that was neat seeing the dark green strain poles as that is just like the concrete one's that Florida uses.
Incidentally US 13 in Norfolk used to have Jersey Trust mast arms at the first intersection north of I-64. Now they use a Florida span wire system with the concrete poles on the four corners. What is interesting about that one is both times they used other state practices.
Nope, most of them are silver/gray/whatever you call metal colored poles now. And even the city is very slowly converting to mast arms (like, very slowly).
I passed under one of these rare to find span wire installations in DC yesterday.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.952167,-77.072729&spn=0.002395,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.952364,-77.073562&panoid=ynyFuWm437rz5PDxGbQT8Q&cbp=12,217.53,,0,6.92
Quote from: andrewkbrown on July 29, 2014, 02:05:25 PM
I passed under one of these rare to find span wire installations in DC yesterday.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.952167,-77.072729&spn=0.002395,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.952364,-77.073562&panoid=ynyFuWm437rz5PDxGbQT8Q&cbp=12,217.53,,0,6.92
Wow, that is weird. I have to say, though, it's much more visible than the normal mast signals around DC. Especially on multilane roads, I've almost missed signals because DC doesn't use overhead signals for middle lanes (and only sometimes for the right lane). Traffic light visibility is one thing Europeans (and Washingtonians) don't do very well.
ETA:
Would you know that this intersection was signalized if you were travelling at 35 mph? Maybe not until the last moment. This is where span-wire signals (or at least mast
arms) are more helpful.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg431%2Fwisvishr0%2FTenleytownsignals.jpg&hash=f674abd5507cb2049e3b7398688070dd2b43c680)
Quote from: andrewkbrown on July 29, 2014, 02:05:25 PM
I passed under one of these rare to find span wire installations in DC yesterday.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.952167,-77.072729&spn=0.002395,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.952364,-77.073562&panoid=ynyFuWm437rz5PDxGbQT8Q&cbp=12,217.53,,0,6.92
Minus the grey signals, this looks like your average intersection in Maine.
Actually, I'm pretty sure that those signals are MD-standard (black front and yellow black, rather than gray). They must have stolen them from MDOT or SHA.
From another angle, the signals appear to be formerly yellow, painted gray.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.952113,-77.072541&spn=0.002395,0.005284&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.952133,-77.073705&panoid=yD_NRip9o0weN9-eK0-QDg&cbp=12,349.95,,1,-8.9&z=18
Which wouldn't be the first one I've seen, another now yellow signal. Diagonally across from my firehouse.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.896231,-77.010958&spn=0.001198,0.002642&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.896121,-77.011431&panoid=HM1W9xgp1qTVkdJBsjnDEA&cbp=12,293.28,,0,-2.64&z=19
Quote from: andrewkbrown on July 29, 2014, 07:36:59 PM
From another angle, the signals appear to be formerly yellow, painted gray.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.952113,-77.072541&spn=0.002395,0.005284&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.952133,-77.073705&panoid=yD_NRip9o0weN9-eK0-QDg&cbp=12,349.95,,1,-8.9&z=18
Which wouldn't be the first one I've seen, another now yellow signal. Diagonally across from my firehouse.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.896231,-77.010958&spn=0.001198,0.002642&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.896121,-77.011431&panoid=HM1W9xgp1qTVkdJBsjnDEA&cbp=12,293.28,,0,-2.64&z=19
A lot of older signals in DC were repainted post-production because grey was a non-standard color. DDOT would get the signals, then they'd repaint them to their standard color because they couldn't order grey signals.
Quote from: andrewkbrown on July 29, 2014, 07:36:59 PM
From another angle, the signals appear to be formerly yellow, painted gray.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.952113,-77.072541&spn=0.002395,0.005284&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.952133,-77.073705&panoid=yD_NRip9o0weN9-eK0-QDg&cbp=12,349.95,,1,-8.9&z=18
Which wouldn't be the first one I've seen, another now yellow signal. Diagonally across from my firehouse.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.896231,-77.010958&spn=0.001198,0.002642&t=h&layer=c&cbll=38.896121,-77.011431&panoid=HM1W9xgp1qTVkdJBsjnDEA&cbp=12,293.28,,0,-2.64&z=19
Ahh, you're right. Sorry for that, I didn't look carefully enough.
Quote from: wisvishr0 on July 29, 2014, 04:01:24 PM
Quote from: andrewkbrown on July 29, 2014, 02:05:25 PM
I passed under one of these rare to find span wire installations in DC yesterday.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=38.952167,-77.072729&spn=0.002395,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.952364,-77.073562&panoid=ynyFuWm437rz5PDxGbQT8Q&cbp=12,217.53,,0,6.92
Wow, that is weird. I have to say, though, it's much more visible than the normal mast signals around DC. Especially on multilane roads, I've almost missed signals because DC doesn't use overhead signals for middle lanes (and only sometimes for the right lane). Traffic light visibility is one thing Europeans (and Washingtonians) don't do very well.
ETA:
Would you know that this intersection was signalized if you were travelling at 35 mph? Maybe not until the last moment. This is where span-wire signals (or at least mast arms) are more helpful.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1101.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg431%2Fwisvishr0%2FTenleytownsignals.jpg&hash=f674abd5507cb2049e3b7398688070dd2b43c680)
You're absolutely right. There needs to be a signal either overhead or in the middle so that it is clear that there is a signal ahead.
Is there some type of law in DC regarding that mast arms along certain corridors are prohibited because they obstruct the view of the monuments? It probably should be repealed in the interests of traffic safety.
A pair of span wire signals in Olathe/Gardner
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3878/15001698926_c0c5ce36b1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oRDCru)
49453 (https://flic.kr/p/oRDCru) by richiekennedy56 (https://www.flickr.com/people/39506502@N04/), on Flickr
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3895/15024705095_bb420b24f3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/oTFxnz)49454 (https://flic.kr/p/oTFxnz) by richiekennedy56 (https://www.flickr.com/people/39506502@N04/), on Flickr
The vast majority of signals in Seattle are hung by wires, over and under the trolleybus and streetcar wires. The local PUDs also prefer not to bury telephone wires, so streets end up looking like this:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcossdotblog.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2Fweb-of-wires-DSC_0722-RESIZE.jpg&hash=f888dec8e47e1ba4550162054d8f8e2d749bfaae)
(Broadway & Pine Street on Capitol Hill: Home to a new streetcar line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Hill_Streetcar) and 3 trolleybus routes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybuses_in_Seattle))
Here in Arizona, span wire is mostly only used for temporary installations. Also, some cities are now using portable masts as an alternative to span wire signals for temporary installations if the road width permits.