Saw this article today on MSN. I know a lot of people on this forum live in almost all of these states, and I was wondering if they wanted to refute the claims in this article? The full article is here (http://realestate.msn.com/10-worst-states-to-live-in#1), but I will list the supposed 10 worst states to live in below:
10. Arkansas
9. Kentucky
8. Ohio
7. Indiana
6. Michigan
5. Alabama
4. Louisiana
3. Missouri
2. Oklahoma
1. Tennessee ( :thumbdown: ? )
According to the article, the quality of life levels in these states are much lower compared to the rest of the 'States. I can't have an opinion since I have not visited any of these states, but for the people who do live in them, do you agree with this list, or disagree?
Not sure if I can trust an article that refers to the citizens of Indiana as Indianans. Seems that the article focuses more on health and air pollution as its main criteria. Not saying that those aren't important factors to determine if a state is the worse...but it's hardly the only ones of real focus.
Well anytime they use "quality of life" as part of the polling, Louisiana tends to make the "worst" list. We like our food :bigass:
Poverty levels and unemployment rates here usually puts us there.
Worst states? Let's look at environment, economy, politics, cost, education...
Like all of these type of ranking articles, it's subjective. The intro to the article says they use objective measures, but WHICH measures they chose to use is completely subjective. Plus, most states are large enough that factors such as pollution, crime, cost of living, etc., can have plenty of variation within the state itself.
All any one person can do is decide which is the best state (or city, or country) for themselves. Lists like this, while interesting for statistical comparison, should never use a title such as "worst state to live in." That's just asking for vitriol-laden state-bashing in the comments section (which might be what they want, if that increases page views and clicks).
One thing I saw that sucks about Tennessee is the speed trap disguised as traffic enforcement on I-55 south of Memphis. This is fairly rural area and despite that, the speed zones kept getting slower and slower as the border with Mississippi was approached with 45 MPH being the speed at the very end of the Volunteer State's territory. Pigs don't fly but they can sure do a great piranha imitiation the way they were swarmingly stationed on this stretch of freeway.
Once you cross the border into Mississippi you get a 70 MPH limit and no throngs of Official Government Thieves to cause troubles. If Russia and China want to send some nukes our way, I nominate this area for maximum overkill...LOL!
Louisiana is a Third World country disguised as an American state. As if half a year of humid swamp smells that go on day and night and all those fire ants weren't enough, the legendary levels of corruption and crime combined with poverty and racism make the Pelican State more like Pelican Bay Prison in far northern California. Nuke it too!
California, home of sanctimonious liberals and overreaching government, should have made the Top Ten. Overly expensive property, full of ripoffs, way too crowded, the highest gas prices in the US of A's lower 48, too many cultural/racial clashing points (even the Mexicans hate each other as the southern and northern ones are deadly rivals), home of the Hell's Angels and Mongols, lawsuits galore to hold up long-needed highway improvements...the old joke about California is to ask why it's like a breakfast cereal. The answer is once you get rid of the fruits and nuts, all you have left is the flakes! Conservative Orange County couldn't observe conservative principles about not living beyond one's means and taking care of your own business so they went bankrupt despite this county's vast wealth so it's not just libs who have screwed up down there in the Golden State. If China nukes this state they'll kill more Chinese than if they hit Taiwan...LOL!
Honorable mention goes to Idaho, the Aryan Nations and militia state of states. Hypocrisy and ultraconservatives galore. Bad winters are a fact of life but what would you expect from a state with Moscow in it? Catch the 411 on former Republican Senator "Wide Stance" Larry Craig to get an idea of what sprouts in their soil besides spuds:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal
About the worst thing I can say about my home state of Oregon is that we're keeping Portland weird with the largest nude bike parade on the planet, Oregonians don't tan, they rust, highway speeds are too low and that we were the HQ for Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh's cult back in the 80's. When we screw up it's genuinely funny and we screw up a lot out here!
Rick
I've lived in three of those states and there are great places to live in all of them and bad places to live. I see an anti-"flyover country" bias in this list. I never pay much attention to this list.
I do see Tulsa listed in many of the "best cities to live in" lists which is accurate depending on what part of town you live in. I'd rather live here than anywhere else I've ever lived and in many places that I've visited.
There are very few places I truly enjoyed living in. But I love NW Arkansas. Oklahoma is a republican stronghold that alone should make it one of the top places to live! I don't see how New Jersey didn't make the lust, it's only like dirtiest state in the country. Or Connecticut and it's crime and poor road system. The stretch of 95 should land Connecticut in the bottom 10 alone!
iPhone
DTComposer covers this well. Many dozens of these such articles out there, depends on what type of criteria they use for this or that article.
Also, state are pretty big, lots of difference between, using the state they pick on, Bristol from Memphis from Nashville from Chattanooga from some little town somewhere.
At the end of the day, NBC picks criteria that dis "fly over" country. What a newsflash.
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 04:02:47 AM
I don't see how New Jersey didn't make the (list), it's only like dirtiest state in the country.
How so?
Or is this based upon what one sees near exit 13 of the turnpike, so the entire state must be like that?
This list is bullshit. Illinois is missing.
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 04:02:47 AM
There are very few places I truly enjoyed living in. But I love NW Arkansas. Oklahoma is a republican stronghold that alone should make it one of the top places to live! I don't see how New Jersey didn't make the lust, it's only like dirtiest state in the country. Or Connecticut and it's crime and poor road system. The stretch of 95 should land Connecticut in the bottom 10 alone!
iPhone
You should probably visit some of the towns in Hunterdon, Warren, Sussex, Somerset, Mercer and Middlesex counties (among others) before coming to that assumption... I love New Jersey, and part of the reason is because it's beautiful in so many aspects.
Quote from: Zeffy on July 02, 2014, 11:10:22 AM
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 04:02:47 AM
There are very few places I truly enjoyed living in. But I love NW Arkansas. Oklahoma is a republican stronghold that alone should make it one of the top places to live! I don't see how New Jersey didn't make the lust, it's only like dirtiest state in the country. Or Connecticut and it's crime and poor road system. The stretch of 95 should land Connecticut in the bottom 10 alone!
iPhone
You should probably visit some of the towns in Hunterdon, Warren, Sussex, Somerset, Mercer and Middlesex counties (among others) before coming to that assumption... I love New Jersey, and part of the reason is because it's beautiful in so many aspects.
I'm sure New Jersey has nice places just like every state in the country does. Every state on that list has great places and horrible places. NJ has sky high taxes, overpopulated, sky high crime, that thing they call the turnpike, and from a roadgeek perspective those hideous oval shields
iPhone
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 11:15:14 AM
I'm sure New Jersey has nice places just like every state in the country does. Every state on that list has great places and horrible places. NJ has sky high taxes, overpopulated, sky high crime, that thing they call the turnpike, and from a roadgeek perspective those hideous oval shields
Sky high taxes - yes, that is pretty true. Overpopulated? Perhaps, but NYC which is right next to us has
2x the population of New Jersey. Sky high crime? Uh, WHAT? Looking at the averages for both violent crime and property crime, New Jersey is
below the national average in both categories... take a look here: http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/nj/crime/ . Yes, some cities in New Jersey are definitely crime-ridden (some to the extreme category), but to say the state itself has a crime problem is completely wrong. The New Jersey Turnpike is (like it or not) a national icon, and for the roadway itself, there's nothing wrong with it. The oval shields is nothing worse than what Kentucky, Missouri, Iowa, etc. use as well...
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 11:15:14 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on July 02, 2014, 11:10:22 AM
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 04:02:47 AM
There are very few places I truly enjoyed living in. But I love NW Arkansas. Oklahoma is a republican stronghold that alone should make it one of the top places to live! I don't see how New Jersey didn't make the lust, it's only like dirtiest state in the country. Or Connecticut and it's crime and poor road system. The stretch of 95 should land Connecticut in the bottom 10 alone!
iPhone
You should probably visit some of the towns in Hunterdon, Warren, Sussex, Somerset, Mercer and Middlesex counties (among others) before coming to that assumption... I love New Jersey, and part of the reason is because it's beautiful in so many aspects.
I'm sure New Jersey has nice places just like every state in the country does. Every state on that list has great places and horrible places. NJ has sky high taxes, overpopulated, sky high crime, that thing they call the turnpike, and from a roadgeek perspective those hideous oval shields
iPhone
OK, but you said NJ is the dirtest state in the country. What does that have to do with a state route shield or high taxes? And Zeffy pointed out the inaccuracies in everything else.
QuoteOne thing I saw that sucks about Tennessee is the speed trap disguised as traffic enforcement on I-55 south of Memphis. This is fairly rural area and despite that, the speed zones kept getting slower and slower as the border with Mississippi was approached with 45 MPH being the speed at the very end of the Volunteer State's territory.
When was your last time south of Memphis? It's very suburban now to south of MS 302. Heck, it's 8-10 lanes down to MS 302 at this point.
Regarding New Jersey and taxation, while New Jersey does have pretty high property, income, and sales taxes, they have one of the lowest gas tax rates in the country. Also, regarding sales taxes, except for Salem County which is exempt from collecting the state sales tax, they do not have any local sales taxes, unlike most other states. According to the Tax Foundation (http://taxfoundation.org/article/state-and-local-sales-tax-rates-2014), Tennessee has the highest combined state-and-average-local sales tax in the country (and tied for 2nd when considering state-only). Arkansastravelguy's own state is 2nd overall in the combined state-and-local sales tax, and tied for 9th for state-only sales tax.
Quote from: Alps on July 01, 2014, 07:13:33 PM
Worst states? Let's look at environment, economy, politics, cost, education...
And above all employment and employment opportunities.
Quote from: nexus73 on July 01, 2014, 09:23:21 PM
and that we were the HQ for Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh's cult back in the 80's.
Any relationship with New Vrindaban, West Virginia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Vrindaban,_West_Virginia)?
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 11:15:14 AM
that thing they call the turnpike, and from a roadgeek perspective those hideous oval shields
Ever actually
driven the New Jersey Turnpike?
It is always decently-maintained and the Turnpike Authority is putting the finishing touches on a massive widening project (probably the largest highway widening anywhere in the U.S. right now) between Interchanges 6 and 8A.
My only gripes with the New Jersey Turnpike:
- Posted speed limit on most of the Turnpike is 65 - it should be 75 (or even 80) MPH most of the way (and yes, I know it is not likely that the NJSP are going to stop anyone going 75 or less);
- Still only four lanes between Interchanges 1 and 4 (though recently redecked and reconstructed bridges have room for 6 or maybe 8 lanes);
- A breezewood near Bellmawr (south of Interchange 3) where the mainline of the Turnpike fails to properly connect to I-76, N.J. 42 and the ACE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_City_Expressway); and
- No posted "public" route number at all between Interchanges 1 and 6.
Quote from: froggie on July 02, 2014, 12:07:38 PM
Regarding New Jersey and taxation, while New Jersey does have pretty high property, income, and sales taxes, they have one of the lowest gas tax rates in the country. Also, regarding sales taxes, except for Salem County which is exempt from collecting the state sales tax, they do not have any local sales taxes, unlike most other states.
Salem County isn't exempt. Eligible businesses within the county are permitted to charge a 3.5% Sales Tax, similiar to the state's Urban Enterprise Zone Sales Tax Program. There are several exceptions though - prepared food, such as what one would purchase in at the 2 NJ Turnpike Service Plazas located within Salem CountY, is taxed at the normal 7% state sales tax rate, for example.
Relevant: last week, the New York Times made a map that ranks all the US counties (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/upshot/where-are-the-hardest-places-to-live-in-the-us.html) by quality of life.
What's interesting about Michigan, besides the way everyone pretends Wayne County doesn't exist, is that state pride has been on the rise in the last few years. I've seen more and more people talking about Michigan beers and Michigan bands, and suddenly everyone has a bumper sticker boasting about how great the state is.
Quote from: getemngo on July 02, 2014, 01:31:15 PM
...the New York Times made a map that ranks all the US counties (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/upshot/where-are-the-hardest-places-to-live-in-the-us.html) by quality of life.
How can the "Hardest Places to Live in the United States" not include some stats on crime and overall stress? I understand the latter is difficult to quantify without a survey, but money isn't everything, especially in a place where one's cost-of-living expenses are already high (but hey, a New York publication can't be down on itself, right)?
QuoteSalem County isn't exempt.
Salem County as a general rule is exempt from the STATE 7% sales tax. I should have clarified that, as you noted, they have a 3.5% local sales tax. But aside from that, there are no local sales taxes in New Jersey.
Quote from: nexus73 on July 01, 2014, 09:23:21 PMOne thing I saw that sucks about Tennessee is the speed trap disguised as traffic enforcement on I-55 south of Memphis. This is fairly rural area and despite that, the speed zones kept getting slower and slower as the border with Mississippi was approached with 45 MPH being the speed at the very end of the Volunteer State's territory. Pigs don't fly but they can sure do a great piranha imitiation the way they were swarmingly stationed on this stretch of freeway.
It's 55 through memphis, then goes up to 65 a few miles before hitting MS. I don't know what you're talking about. I fairly frequently go through there.
This is at the county (or county-equivalent) level, which is more informative.
N.Y. Times: Where Are the Hardest Places to Live in the U.S.? (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/upshot/where-are-the-hardest-places-to-live-in-the-us.html)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 02, 2014, 03:05:13 PM
This is at the county (or county-equivalent) level, which is more informative.
N.Y. Times: Where Are the Hardest Places to Live in the U.S.? (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/upshot/where-are-the-hardest-places-to-live-in-the-us.html)
Already presented in evidence.
Not that it matters, anyway–just another opportunity for New Yorkers to wring their hands while thinking about "those fat, stupid southerners" .
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 02, 2014, 03:05:13 PM
This is at the county (or county-equivalent) level, which is more informative.
N.Y. Times: Where Are the Hardest Places to Live in the U.S.? (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/26/upshot/where-are-the-hardest-places-to-live-in-the-us.html)
I've seen this map before. It's basically a map of poverty. They tried to take into account all these other factors, and in the end, pretty much created the same map as just showing the poverty rate by county.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fpcd%2Fissues%2F2007%2Foct%2Fimages%2F07_0091_01.gif&hash=af190f0e1400da547843d8611f6cd15ce2dfeccd)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffilipspagnoli.files.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F09%2Fus-poverty-rate-by-county-2010.jpg&hash=9414b3878abdad56862eddc19fe73c2519a7849b)
There are only subtle changes based on how one places the breaks between each category.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 02, 2014, 11:44:14 AM
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 11:15:14 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on July 02, 2014, 11:10:22 AM
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 04:02:47 AM
There are very few places I truly enjoyed living in. But I love NW Arkansas. Oklahoma is a republican stronghold that alone should make it one of the top places to live! I don't see how New Jersey didn't make the lust, it's only like dirtiest state in the country. Or Connecticut and it's crime and poor road system. The stretch of 95 should land Connecticut in the bottom 10 alone!
iPhone
You should probably visit some of the towns in Hunterdon, Warren, Sussex, Somerset, Mercer and Middlesex counties (among others) before coming to that assumption... I love New Jersey, and part of the reason is because it's beautiful in so many aspects.
I'm sure New Jersey has nice places just like every state in the country does. Every state on that list has great places and horrible places. NJ has sky high taxes, overpopulated, sky high crime, that thing they call the turnpike, and from a roadgeek perspective those hideous oval shields
iPhone
OK, but you said NJ is the dirtest state in the country. What does that have to do with a state route shield or high taxes? And Zeffy pointed out the inaccuracies in everything else.
The cities I've been in (Atlantic City, Camden, Newark) we're horrible horrible places. The turnpike is what it is.. A congested mess in a lot of places. Which isn't so bad except you have to pay a hefty amount to go from one side of NJ to another at a decent speed.
I don't understand why all these southern states are in the bottom ten. I'm not a huge fan of the south, but northerners are, because they are flocking down to the southern states.
iPhone
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 04:26:57 PM
The cities I've been in (Atlantic City, Camden, Newark) we're horrible horrible places. The turnpike is what it is.. A congested mess in a lot of places. Which isn't so bad except you have to pay a hefty amount to go from one side of NJ to another at a decent speed.
Please do not think that New Jersey's urban cities (ESPECIALLY CAMDEN!) are a representation of the rest of the state. The reason the cities are like they are is mainly corruption within the cities. In Camden's case, it's mainly because of it's status as an Industrial City, and, like Trenton, they both took the closing of the industrial areas in the city extremely hard. Trenton has the state government - Camden really doesn't. In time, both of these cities will become nice again, but you need to give it time. In Trenton's case, a lot of work is being done to make the quality of life better for Trentonians.
Please come back to New Jersey and visit some of the areas I recommend - Somerville, a small quaint town located in my county, Morristown, another small town on the rise a bit north, the Princeton area (or to an extent, the lesser Trenton area), the outlying areas of Hunterdon County, etc. There's a
lot more to New Jersey than corrupted and decaying cities.
If you don't like the Turnpike - don't ride it. Simple as that. But both the Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway are two of New Jersey's busiest roads, and calling it a congested mess is just unfair.
Your view of New Jersey is very flawed, and I don't think you actually experienced New Jersey if the places you visited were all some of the sketchy places to be.
Quote from: Zeffy on July 02, 2014, 04:54:23 PM
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 04:26:57 PM
The cities I've been in (Atlantic City, Camden, Newark) we're horrible horrible places. The turnpike is what it is.. A congested mess in a lot of places. Which isn't so bad except you have to pay a hefty amount to go from one side of NJ to another at a decent speed.
Please do not think that New Jersey's urban cities (ESPECIALLY CAMDEN!) are a representation of the rest of the state. The reason the cities are like they are is mainly corruption within the cities. In Camden's case, it's mainly because of it's status as an Industrial City, and, like Trenton, they both took the closing of the industrial areas in the city extremely hard. Trenton has the state government - Camden really doesn't. In time, both of these cities will become nice again, but you need to give it time. In Trenton's case, a lot of work is being done to make the quality of life better for Trentonians.
Please come back to New Jersey and visit some of the areas I recommend - Somerville, a small quaint town located in my county, Morristown, another small town on the rise a bit north, the Princeton area (or to an extent, the lesser Trenton area), the outlying areas of Hunterdon County, etc. There's a lot more to New Jersey than corrupted and decaying cities.
If you don't like the Turnpike - don't ride it. Simple as that. But both the Turnpike and the Garden State Parkway are two of New Jersey's busiest roads, and calling it a congested mess is just unfair.
Your view of New Jersey is very flawed, and I don't think you actually experienced New Jersey if the places you visited were all some of the sketchy places to be.
I have been to a few other places in Jersey, such as Cape May which was awesome. I appreciate you defending the state, anytime I've bashed Jersey I haven't gotten resistance... Even from my jersey friends. So you may be right that my perception is flawed, I just go by my experience
iPhone
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 02, 2014, 04:02:47 AM
There are very few places I truly enjoyed living in. But I love NW Arkansas. Oklahoma is a republican stronghold that alone should make it one of the top places to live! I don't see how New Jersey didn't make the lust, it's only like dirtiest state in the country. Or Connecticut and it's crime and poor road system. The stretch of 95 should land Connecticut in the bottom 10 alone!
iPhone
I do agree with you on Connecticut's I-95, but Connecticut has a lot more to offer then their horrible roads AND they are in the process of reconstructing bad sections of I-95. Honestly, some roads aren't THAT BAD. Sure, the crime is bad but almost every state with large cities is prone to that.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 02, 2014, 03:23:28 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fpcd%2Fissues%2F2007%2Foct%2Fimages%2F07_0091_01.gif&hash=af190f0e1400da547843d8611f6cd15ce2dfeccd)
the poop is going on with Rhode Island there? one extremely poor county?
To those who quoted and inquired about my I-55 south of Memphis to the MS state line experience, it took place in June 1996. I have never gone back!
Rick
The quality of life in a community is determined by a variety of factors: employment, safety, access to necessities and geographical (climate and distance from major cities). Sometimes, local government plays a role in mismanagement of communities to become poor or blighted.
In my area (the Inland Empire CA region), there are really bad cities like San Bernardino, sections like East Riverside, and towns like Desert Hot Springs rank among the worst places to live in CA or the country. Poverty rates are higher in towns surrounding San Bernardino and the town of Coachella, while prosperity is concentrated in Chino Hills, Rancho Cucamonga, Redlands, Temecula and Palm Desert where you find upper-middle-class and wealthy residents.
It's all subjective.
I live in one of the bottom 10 counties and it's not been particularly hard or difficult for me. Grew up here, came back here initially after college, and came back hopefully for good 12 years ago, and I hope to never move again. I'd rather live here than in Lexington despite this place's flaws and perceived "hardness."
Tennessee has no income tax, but the sales tax is outrageous. Jersey has a low gas tax but very restrictive firearms laws. Florida's too hot and humid. Maine's too cold. California's too liberal. Ohio's roads and drivers generally suck. Colorado has legalized pot. Kentucky has Louisville.
One person's paradise is another person's hell.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 02, 2014, 10:13:32 PM
It's all subjective.
I live in one of the bottom 10 counties and it's not been particularly hard or difficult for me. Grew up here, came back here initially after college, and came back hopefully for good 12 years ago, and I hope to never move again. I'd rather live here than in Lexington despite this place's flaws and perceived "hardness."
Tennessee has no income tax, but the sales tax is outrageous. Jersey has a low gas tax but very restrictive firearms laws. Florida's too hot and humid. Maine's too cold. California's too liberal. Ohio's roads and drivers generally suck. Colorado has legalized pot. Kentucky has Louisville.
One person's paradise is another person's hell.
Well said.
iPhone
Very well said.
We live in an era where most work is portable. Probably the next generation even more so. But everybody is different. People have different values, ideas, needs.