Since the new flyover has been built at the junction of the Fulbright Expressway and US 71B (the junction of US 71B and...US 71B) and it is now a full interchange, why not apply for an interstate spur designation for the Fulbright? It would make a dandy I-149. It would clear things up, as currently the US 71B goes in all three directions from the interchange. It has an interchange between I-54...er 49 and 71B. As far as I know it's up to interstate standards. Why not at least ask AASHTO? They've basically become a rubber stamp organization so they would probably approve it.
Quote from: bugo on July 04, 2014, 05:57:39 AM
Since the new flyover has been built at the junction of the Fulbright Expressway and US 71B (the junction of US 71B and...US 71B) and it is now a full interchange, why not apply for an interstate spur designation for the Fulbright? It would make a dandy I-149. It would clear things up, as currently the US 71B goes in all three directions from the interchange. It has an interchange between I-54...er 49 and 71B. As far as I know it's up to interstate standards. Why not at least ask AASHTO? They've basically become a rubber stamp organization so they would probably approve it.
At one time, that section was 471 Spur (though not posted), so it would not surprise me if it's (unsigned) 71 Spur. Maybe we could make it 49 Spur?
Quote from: bugo on July 04, 2014, 05:57:39 AM
Since the new flyover has been built at the junction of the Fulbright Expressway and US 71B (the junction of US 71B and...US 71B) and it is now a full interchange, why not apply for an interstate spur designation for the Fulbright? It would make a dandy I-149. It would clear things up, as currently the US 71B goes in all three directions from the interchange. It has an interchange between I-54...er 49 and 71B. As far as I know it's up to interstate standards. Why not at least ask AASHTO? They've basically become a rubber stamp organization so they would probably approve it.
I guess I don't see the benefit to designating it I-149, also there are really two sections that could get that designation. Which do you give it to?
I-49 Business would be interesting. But Arkansas doesn't seem big on Business Interstate designations for whatever reason.
Maybe they should just revert US 71B to US 71 since it disappears anyway
Quote from: bjrush on July 04, 2014, 12:47:45 PMalso there are really two sections that could get that designation. Which do you give it to?
Presumably the northern one that isn't part of US71...
I was going to say that it would be good to use for making a US421 bypass of Springdale, but a look on OSM that's planned to go round the north side.
I don't see why it couldn't be I-149. It's listed as 71B on the AHTD county map. I agree with making 71B just 71 but I think AASHTO considers in a "downgrade" and wouldn't approve it. The southern part is actually US71
iPhone
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 04, 2014, 02:47:36 PM
I don't see why it couldn't be I-149. It's listed as 71B on the AHTD county map. I agree with making 71B just 71 but I think AASHTO considers in a "downgrade" and wouldn't approve it. The southern part is actually US71
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Or make Alma to Bentonville 471 as was originally planned and send 71 up the expressway. Then bring back 471S.
I like 71 through the mountains the way it is, even for pure nostalgic reasons.
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Quote from: US71 on July 04, 2014, 10:55:14 AM
Quote from: bugo on July 04, 2014, 05:57:39 AM
Since the new flyover has been built at the junction of the Fulbright Expressway and US 71B (the junction of US 71B and...US 71B) and it is now a full interchange, why not apply for an interstate spur designation for the Fulbright? It would make a dandy I-149. It would clear things up, as currently the US 71B goes in all three directions from the interchange. It has an interchange between I-54...er 49 and 71B. As far as I know it's up to interstate standards. Why not at least ask AASHTO? They've basically become a rubber stamp organization so they would probably approve it.
At one time, that section was 471 Spur (though not posted), so it would not surprise me if it's (unsigned) 71 Spur. Maybe we could make it 49 Spur?
It's US 71, section 17B which means it is US 71B. Section 17B also runs north into Springdale from the College/Fulbright interchange. Section 16B runs from US 71 at the south side of Fayetteville and ends at the College/Fulbright interchange.
Quote from: english si on July 04, 2014, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: bjrush on July 04, 2014, 12:47:45 PMalso there are really two sections that could get that designation. Which do you give it to?
Presumably the northern one that isn't part of US71...
I was going to say that it would be good to use for making a US421 bypass of Springdale, but a look on OSM that's planned to go round the north side.
Yeah US 412 bypass is basically going through southern Lowell
Actually who knows how many generations will go by before that bypass is built. It won't even do anything IMO
Quote from: bjrush on July 04, 2014, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: english si on July 04, 2014, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: bjrush on July 04, 2014, 12:47:45 PMalso there are really two sections that could get that designation. Which do you give it to?
Presumably the northern one that isn't part of US71...
I was going to say that it would be good to use for making a US421 bypass of Springdale, but a look on OSM that's planned to go round the north side.
Yeah US 412 bypass is basically going through southern Lowell
Actually who knows how many generations will go by before that bypass is built. It won't even do anything IMO
I'm hearing ADHD is going to start on 412 bypass at the end of this year from 49 to 112 but it's hearsay. I'm not sure if it's so they can start the airport spur or not.
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Not to be anal, but it's *AHTD*.
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 04, 2014, 10:05:33 PM
Quote from: bjrush on July 04, 2014, 07:34:53 PM
Quote from: english si on July 04, 2014, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: bjrush on July 04, 2014, 12:47:45 PMalso there are really two sections that could get that designation. Which do you give it to?
Presumably the northern one that isn't part of US71...
I was going to say that it would be good to use for making a US421 bypass of Springdale, but a look on OSM that's planned to go round the north side.
Yeah US 412 bypass is basically going through southern Lowell
Actually who knows how many generations will go by before that bypass is built. It won't even do anything IMO
I'm hearing ADHD is going to start on 412 bypass at the end of this year from 49 to 112 but it's hearsay. I'm not sure if it's so they can start the airport spur or not.
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I believe that is still the plan, with estimated completion in late 2018
Quote from: bugo on July 04, 2014, 10:10:49 PM
Not to be anal, but it's *AHTD*.
Autocorrect
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The Interstate designation wouldn't do much good, really... And the mis-signed exit isn't up to Interstate standards
When I was younger, and before I lived here, I thought the Fayetteville "Bypass" was constructed in order to complete a loop around Fayetteville... I was wrong. Loved Rand McNally! :)
I remember reading a Reader's Digest article that listed US 71 as one of the most dangerous highways in America... Ahhh, my childhood!
I'm not sure what to do with the Fulbright, and that area. The signs along the Fulbright are substandard.
With the amount of traffic and the number of lanes, I don't know why they didn't do overhead structures, with the new "flyover". Cheap, cheap, cheap.
Quote from: M86 on July 05, 2014, 03:54:39 AM
The Interstate designation wouldn't do much good, really
It would clear up the confusion of the US 71B/US 71B interchange and it would give NWA another interstate route to brag about.
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And the mis-signed exit isn't up to Interstate standards
How is it not up to interstate standards? I've seen far worse.
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I remember reading a Reader's Digest article that listed US 71 as one of the most dangerous highways in America... Ahhh, my childhood!
I remember reading that article. It was infamous around western Arkansas at the time and got a lot of media attention.
Quote from: M86 on July 05, 2014, 03:54:39 AM
The Interstate designation wouldn't do much good, really... And the mis-signed exit isn't up to Interstate standards
When I was younger, and before I lived here, I thought the Fayetteville "Bypass" was constructed in order to complete a loop around Fayetteville... I was wrong. Loved Rand McNally! :)
I remember reading a Reader's Digest article that listed US 71 as one of the most dangerous highways in America... Ahhh, my childhood!
I'm not sure what to do with the Fulbright, and that area. The signs along the Fulbright are substandard.
With the amount of traffic and the number of lanes, I don't know why they didn't do overhead structures, with the new "flyover". Cheap, cheap, cheap.
Mis-signed Exit: you mean Gregg St (as opposed to Gregg Ave). It's been called Gregg St for as long as I remember (or Johnson Rd).
The "flyover" isn't perfect. It needs a dedicated lane just for using it. Instead it just forks off the left lane, while traffic backs up trying to get into the left lane. It's better than nothing, I suppose, but I wish it had been built when the original 71 Bypass was built.
71 down the mountain can still be treacherous if you're not careful, but moving most of the truck traffic to the expressway, makes it less so.
That's what you get when you let a global firm do a project in Fayetteville, AR
They give it to the intern so the real engineers can work on projects in Manhattan
I think I-149 would be beneficial. How do you get to the mall? Or better yet the hospital? Take 149. Car wreck on Fulbright? Where do you say you are? It's not signed at all. I don't think it's even signed Fulbright anywhere. Just "To 49". It needs to be named/numbered/signed something.
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US 71Y; problem solved.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 06, 2014, 02:09:58 AM
US 71Y; problem solved.
Why not U.S. 71F? For fullbright expressway. :happy:
What is this, Texas?
Pull a SC, use either CONN US 71 or BUS SPUR I-49.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 06, 2014, 11:38:47 AM
Pull a SC, use either CONN US 71 or BUS SPUR I-49.
What's CONN? I haven't heard of that one.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 06, 2014, 11:38:47 AM
Pull a SC, use either CONN US 71 or BUS SPUR I-49.
CONN 71 would confuse people. 71Spur would work, or a new designation: a Business-Spur, so we'd have 71BS :p
Quote from: cjk374 on July 06, 2014, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 06, 2014, 11:38:47 AM
Pull a SC, use either CONN US 71 or BUS SPUR I-49.
What's CONN? I haven't heard of that one.
Connector. It is used heavily for state routes in GA and it also used for US routes in SC.
Quote from: US71 on July 06, 2014, 12:15:31 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 06, 2014, 11:38:47 AM
Pull a SC, use either CONN US 71 or BUS SPUR I-49.
CONN 71 would confuse people. 71Spur would work, or a new designation: a Business-Spur, so we'd have 71BS :p
I'm sure the Fayetteville local businesses (especially the mall) would love an I-149 designation because it would bring their businesses that much closer to an interstate.
"If I was in charge":
Implement I-49 Business Loop, like Missouri.
I'm warming up to a I-149 designation for the Fulbright... but I don't think the ramps are up to current Interstate standards for the one exit... Need to research that more.
Is I-180 in WY up to interstate standards? How about I-124 in TN?
Hey, does every freeway need an Interstate shield attached to it?
Quote from: Henry on July 07, 2014, 04:35:25 PM
Hey, does every freeway need an Interstate shield attached to it?
No. They don't. And I agree with what your saying (I-2, I-69abcdefg bullshit, I-97), I don't think 3di's to me is as big of a deal. Besides I-149 is more logical that I-375 (pick one lol)
iPhone
Quote from: Henry on July 07, 2014, 04:35:25 PM
Hey, does every freeway need an Interstate shield attached to it?
No. That's why I advocate for 71Spur
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 06, 2014, 12:29:01 PM
Quote from: cjk374 on July 06, 2014, 11:40:50 AM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 06, 2014, 11:38:47 AM
Pull a SC, use either CONN US 71 or BUS SPUR I-49.
What's CONN? I haven't heard of that one.
Connector. It is used heavily for state routes in GA and it also used for US routes in SC.
There are SC State CONN Routes...
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=ware+place,+sc&hl=en&ll=34.435726,-82.482777&spn=0.032599,0.066047&sll=38.86332,-77.089283&sspn=0.015455,0.033023&t=h&hnear=Ware+Place&z=15&layer=c&cbll=34.435627,-82.482766&panoid=y1pCH6U4Qdgk54IwgfEDMg&cbp=12,34.43,,0,0
Mapmikey
Quote from: Henry on July 07, 2014, 04:35:25 PMHey, does every freeway need an Interstate shield attached to it?
Nope, but this concept of not-every-freeway needs an Interstate designation has been turned into "almost no freeways need an Interstate shield" and then further still into "almost no freeways should have an Interstate shield"
Quote from: US71 on July 07, 2014, 06:23:54 PMNo. That's why I advocate for 71Spur
How is that any better than keeping it as 71Bus and having a junction where all three arms are signed with US71 shields and different banners?
I see no reason why this shouldn't be interstate, and a very logical one as to why this should be an interstate.
Quote from: english si on July 08, 2014, 07:40:34 AM
Quote from: Henry on July 07, 2014, 04:35:25 PMHey, does every freeway need an Interstate shield attached to it?
Nope, but this concept of not-every-freeway needs an Interstate designation has been turned into "almost no freeways need an Interstate shield" and then further still into "almost no freeways should have an Interstate shield"
Quote from: US71 on July 07, 2014, 06:23:54 PMNo. That's why I advocate for 71Spur
How is that any better than keeping it as 71Bus and having a junction where all three arms are signed with US71 shields and different banners?
Maybe it's already (unsigned) 71S
It was 471S (unsigned) after 71 was re-routed in the 1980's.
Springdale has 412Y, but it's not signed.
Do you think the average motorist would care? Gregg Ave (Gregg St), Shiloh Dr and Futrall Dr are plainly signed as TO 49, TO 71 &/or TO 71B, though I take exception to WB being posted as TO 71B.
BTW: Google Maps has already updated to show the completed Fayetteville Flyover.
SR 999 to US 71B NB and SR 999 to I-49 SB. How about that. Just give it an unassigned state route number. Although SR 999 could refer to some street that is not marked at some campus somewhere.
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 08, 2014, 10:32:04 AM
SR 999 to US 71B NB and SR 999 to I-49 SB. How about that. Just give it an unassigned state route number. Although SR 999 could refer to some street that is not marked at some campus somewhere.
The campus routes are all 800 series
Quote from: US71 on July 08, 2014, 08:45:52 AM
Maybe it's already (unsigned) 71S
No, it's US 71, section 17B. If it were US 71S, it would be US 71, section 17Y.
Quote
Springdale has 412Y, but it's not signed.
Isn't it signed as mainline US 412?
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Do you think the average motorist would care? Gregg Ave (Gregg St), Shiloh Dr and Futrall Dr are plainly signed as TO 49, TO 71 &/or TO 71B, though I take exception to WB being posted as TO 71B.
The main reason I want I-149 is because of the Gregg Street exit. If the road had no exits, then TO US 71B and TO I-49 would be fine. But that exit in between is signed as US 71B in both directions. Signing that exit as TO I-49 and TO US 71B is another solution, but I'd rather see I-149.
Quote from: bugo on July 09, 2014, 01:17:01 AM
Quote from: US71 on July 08, 2014, 08:45:52 AM
Maybe it's already (unsigned) 71S
No, it's US 71, section 17B. If it were US 71S, it would be US 71, section 17Y.
Quote
Yet, maps show it as 71B
The 'B' at the end of 'section 17B' says that it's business, whereas a 'Y' there instead would suggest a spur
Quote from: english si on July 09, 2014, 11:46:48 AM
The 'B' at the end of 'section 17B' says that it's business, whereas a 'Y' there instead would suggest a spur
I knew that. I need more caffeine ;)
It's 71 business spur. Making it 71BS. Which is exactly what it is. 149 is perfect. I still propose making 71B 71 again. There's no point in having a business 71 for an unsigned 71.
iPhone
OK, I'm going to step aside here. I think we've about reached the point of sadomasochistic necrophilic bestiality (or beating a dead horse).
I wish AHTD would comment...
iPhone
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 09, 2014, 02:43:52 PM
It's 71 business spur. Making it 71BS. Which is exactly what it is. 149 is perfect. I still propose making 71B 71 again. There's no point in having a business 71 for an unsigned 71.
No, it isn't. There is no "spur" or "S" anywhere on the control section maps. It is simply US 71B.
Quote from: english si on July 09, 2014, 11:46:48 AM
The 'B' at the end of 'section 17B' says that it's business, whereas a 'Y' there instead would suggest a spur
If it were a spur, it would have an S at the end of the section number.
Quote from: bugo on July 09, 2014, 11:17:53 PM
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on July 09, 2014, 02:43:52 PM
It's 71 business spur. Making it 71BS. Which is exactly what it is. 149 is perfect. I still propose making 71B 71 again. There's no point in having a business 71 for an unsigned 71.
No, it isn't. There is no "spur" or "S" anywhere on the control section maps. It is simply US 71B.
It's not listed as a spur but it is a spur
iPhone
At this time there are no plans to change this from U.S. 71B (section 17B).
There are other U.S. highways in Arkansas built to Interstate standards that are not designated as such:
State Highway 549 in southwest Arkansas (will become I-49 soon).
U.S. Highway 67/U.S. Highway 167 in Central Arkansas from I-40 north toward State Highway 226.
Quote from: AHTD on July 10, 2014, 01:58:26 PM
At this time there are no plans to change this from U.S. 71B (section 17B).
There are other U.S. highways in Arkansas built to Interstate standards that are not designated as such:
State Highway 549 in southwest Arkansas (will become I-49 soon).
I noticed it on your new maps. :)
Making US 71B revert back to US 71 makes a lot of sense. It would be simple in the database and there aren't that many signs either
Quote from: bjrush on July 10, 2014, 02:19:47 PM
Making US 71B revert back to US 71 makes a lot of sense. It would be simple in the database and there aren't that many signs either
Won't happen. AASHTO wouldn't allow it (Ooh, an Allowed Cloud!)
Quote from: AHTD on July 10, 2014, 01:58:26 PM
At this time there are no plans to change this from U.S. 71B (section 17B).
Why not? It would give NWA another Interstate to brag about, and it would clear up some very confusing signage.
Quote from: AHTD on July 10, 2014, 01:58:26 PM
There are other U.S. highways in Arkansas built to Interstate standards that are not designated as such:
State Highway 549 in southwest Arkansas (will become I-49 soon).
U.S. Highway 67/U.S. Highway 167 in Central Arkansas from I-40 north toward State Highway 226.
And AR 440, US 71 from I-54H^H^H^H^H^H^H^49 to US 71B in south Fayetteville, the Hot Springs bypass (US 70 and US 270 in various places), US 70B in Hot Springs (other than the US 70 interchange), US 167 El Dorado bypass, US 82 El Dorado bypass, US 67 in Walnut Ridge, and US 63 from I-55 to AR 91 (Future I-555). I think that's about it. Some of these might not be up to 100% modern Interstate standards, but they're close enough.
Quote from: AHTD on July 10, 2014, 01:58:26 PMThere are other U.S. highways in Arkansas built to Interstate standards that are not designated as such:
The presence of other non-interstate interstate-standard freeways does not preclude giving an interstate designation to one such of these roads. All you've said is that it is possible for an interstate-standard road to not have an interstate designation. You haven't said why this interstate-standard road shouldn't have an interstate designation...
And what's with this first example of a US highway with interstate standards but not designated as such? A state highway with an AASHTO submitted and approved interstate designation that isn't enacted only as you are waiting to join it up with the Louisiana segment. There's better examples you could have used!
Quote from: bugo on July 11, 2014, 09:12:59 AMI think that's about it.
Given we're having state routes is AR151 up to scratch? I'm surprised that Texarkana, having got three sides of an interstate loop, don't want to finish the job!
The 151s shouldn't exist. 369 should be truncated to the 59/151 interchange (basically, it shouldn't exist until the freeway south of the loop is built). The rest of the loop should be I-230, with a short duplex with I-49. If Texas must, they could sign 369 north along 230, but that is neither here nor there. My point is that the loop should have one single number connecting the entire loop. Now it's US 59/I-369 to TX 151 to AR 151 to AR 549. If the entire loop were I-230 it would make navigation easier.
US 71BW