AARoads Forum

I have a 1995 Dodge Neon. This Christmas I was wanting to go to Mazatlan, Mexico and drive the new autopista from Durango to Mazatlan. My car doesn't really have any problems. It once in a while will leak fluids, but putting more in isn't a problem since I check them regularly. The last issue I had with it was the negative on the battery corroded and it wouldn't start. I cleaned it and it purrs like a kitten again. I am kind of nervous taking my car that far, especially since I'll be in Mexico for a few days, but I really want to drive there. Should I chance it?

Quote from: US 41 on July 06, 2014, 03:55:58 PM
I have a 1995 Dodge Neon. This Christmas I was wanting to go to Mazatlan, Mexico and drive the new autopista from Durango to Mazatlan. My car doesn't really have any problems. It once in a while will leak fluids, but putting more in isn't a problem since I check them regularly. The last issue I had with it was the negative on the battery corroded and it wouldn't start. I cleaned it and it purrs like a kitten again. I am kind of nervous taking my car that far, especially since I'll be in Mexico for a few days, but I really want to drive there. Should I chance it?

Would you feel comfortable doing it? Or would you be nervous the whole trip?

Quote from: US71 on July 06, 2014, 04:50:45 PM

Quote from: US 41 on July 06, 2014, 03:55:58 PM
I have a 1995 Dodge Neon. This Christmas I was wanting to go to Mazatlan, Mexico and drive the new autopista from Durango to Mazatlan. My car doesn't really have any problems. It once in a while will leak fluids, but putting more in isn't a problem since I check them regularly. The last issue I had with it was the negative on the battery corroded and it wouldn't start. I cleaned it and it purrs like a kitten again. I am kind of nervous taking my car that far, especially since I'll be in Mexico for a few days, but I really want to drive there. Should I chance it?

Would you feel comfortable doing it? Or would you be nervous the whole trip?

I'd feel pretty comfortable for the most part. The things that have went wrong with it in the past have been very cheap and easy fixes. I'm more nervous about breaking down in Mexico than anything. Mainly because I'm not fluent in Spanish. 

I wouldn't...not with a Neon.  My '98 Neon didn't even make it to 100K before it was destined for the junk heap...and I had problems long before that (namely the transmission).

Quote from: froggie on July 06, 2014, 05:21:53 PM
I wouldn't...not with a Neon.  My '98 Neon didn't even make it to 100K before it was destined for the junk heap...and I had problems long before that (namely the transmission).

Mine has 146,000 miles. It has definitely been driven a lot, mainly by me. When I bought it last year it had 116,000 on it. I drive way too much just for the fun of it.

I put 162,000 miles on mine (also a '95) until it met its demise thanks to 3000 pounds of other moving vehicle. No catastrophic engine problems, same clutch, needed A/C work too frequently, but fairly solid with some TLC...although it was quite worn out and squeaky after seven years (on a limited budget, too). Personally, I think an advantage of a vehicle like a Neon is it probably draws little to no attention towards itself.

If you're worried enough about it that you have to ask, it's probably a bad idea. Is renting a car feasible? If you could find an agency that specializes in renting for trips to Mexico, they may be able to help with the paperwork involved in importing the car to Mexico.

I don't have any experience with a Neon, but then again, I didn't expect to have a serpentine belt break on me last summer in Missouri and no one in Springfield having the replacement belt in stock.

You could always have a trusted mechanic look your car over and recommend any maintenance that needs to be done, or advise you about driving it that distance.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 06, 2014, 09:31:55 PM
If you're worried enough about it that you have to ask, it's probably a bad idea. Is renting a car feasible? If you could find an agency that specializes in renting for trips to Mexico, they may be able to help with the paperwork involved in importing the car to Mexico.

Good luck finding a U.S.-based rental agency that will let you take one of its vehicles into Mexico.  Probably better off looking for a Mexican agency, and get yourself there to pick up the car in Mexico (either fly or drive to a border city, or fly to an interior city like Monterrey).

I second Scott's advice about taking a doubtful car on a long road trip.  I've driven into some remote areas with higher-mileage cars, but my cars get lots of preventive maintenance to minimize the risk of breakdowns out in the middle of nowhere.  Then again, it sounds like your car isn't at high risk for a breakdown, and investing in some preventive maintenance before you leave might both minimize your breakdown risk and make you less nervous about it.

Maybe you could find a place to park the Neon on the US side of the border, then cross the border and head to the rental agency on foot/by taxi?

Short answer: No.

Longer answer: HELL No! :)

Do it, man, it'll be an adventure.

Honestly, there's good mechanics down there that are a lot cheaper than a mechanic north of the border, and probably a larger percentage of the population has the skills to fix a car. Friend of mine drove down recently in an 87 Land Cruiser and had to get his car fixed en route. Just don't push the car by driving insanely fast, though you wouldn't be doing that in Mexico anyway, and have time built in for delays.

That said, if you're taking care of your car and you trust it, you probably won't have any issue. You might, so be prepared for it, but I don't think it's the end of the world if you do. Especially once you're more than 100 miles inside the border where Mexico is safe, you'll find they're typically a lot more willing to help out than Americans are. If you're on D roads, the Angeles Verdes patrol fairly frequently to assist stranded travelers. Have 078 stored in your phone if you need to call them. Learn enough Spanish to be able to describe the location of your car (basically know your numbers so you can identify the nearest kilometer post). Honestly, I'd much rather be stranded on a toll road in interior Mexico than most places in the United States. Mexico doesn't do many things better than the US,but they sure do know how to do roadside assistance.

what corco said.

but first, have a good mechanic look over the car.

'it leaks fluids sometimes' may or may not be troubling.  oil's the one for which the occasional drip can be maintained through judicious refill; if one of my cars is leaking coolant or transmission fluid, it's going to the shop immediately.

that said, corco is correct on quality inexpensive mechanics down there.  I once had a car start spurting transmission fluid.  the pan gasket had gone out.  I got it patched up with rubber cement in an hour for 200 pesos - not a permanent fix, but good enough to make it back to the US.  if I had been more patient, I could have sourced a correct replacement part in a day or two.

   Thank you for all the replies. One of the main reasons I was wanting to go in December was so it would be easier on my car (so my car won't overheat). I was planning on driving 55-65 mph most of the way. The trip should take me a little more than a week, but I'm going to give myself 2 weeks to complete the trip. My car only leaks coolant and oil, but very very slowly. I'll make sure to have plenty of that if I go.
   Someone mentioned something about Cuidad Juarez. I'm not going there. My route in Mexico will be 85D south from Nuevo Laredo to Monterrey; 40D from Monterrey to Mazatlan; and 15D from Mazatlan to Nogales. I am really hoping that I can do this trip. The new 40D from Durango to Mazatlan is what I'm really looking forward to seeing.
   If I can go, I think I will probably chance it with the Neon. It's a good little car and if I do happen to break down, I'll just get it fixed and continue on. Nothing major has ever went wrong with it. Since I'll be on the toll roads in Mexico, I feel more comfortable knowing that the Green Angels will help me out if something does happen. I got the phone number for them in my phone now.
   Mexico does seem to be cheaper than the United States in a lot of ways. It probably reflects that most Mexicans don't make as much as Americans so they can't charge as much, unlike in America where they jack up the prices because they know people can afford it. 
 

Oil isn't as big a deal, it's the coolant leak that could be a problem. First-generation Neons are known for having head gasket issues (http://faq.neons.org/faq/FAQ_X.html#headgasket), although if you have a '95 that's still running, you've probably taken care of the cylinder head gasket issue at some point. (When the TSB the updated part was released, I made sure to have it replaced for a little more money during a timing belt change.)

Getting a coolant pressure test performed is much cheaper - runs about $40 at your average shop - it just takes 15 minutes to find out where it's leaking, and it will save you a potential headache later.

You will also have to obtain special insurance, US insurance does not carry over to the Mexican side of the border. let me say that again US INSURANCE DOES NOT CARRY OVER THE BORDER!

You will be on your own once you cross the border to Mexico.

If you are in a bad area i would sugguest you carry a first aid kit, a set of road flares, hazard triangle, extra oil+coolant, i would not trust the oil down there, you may not get something that meets the standards of your engine. It even happens in the USA at small gas stations, selling oil fit for a lawnmower only (no detergent) and calling it a 10W30 for cars. I would say take two 5 quart jugs of cheap 5W30 oil with you, Wal*Mart brand, two gallon Jugs of Universal Coolant, several jugs of drinkable water, and a jerry can for fuel. If your phone is unlocked and a GSM device, i would purchase a mexican cell carrier sim card once accross the border so you do not get roaming charges.

Do you have any other vehicles?

if you're staying on the three D-roads you mentioned, then you will not run into the substandard dirt roads that DesertDog described.  yes, those do exist - and if one wants to go there, then his advice is very relevant, but driving around the interior of Mexico is a completely different experience than the border area of southern Arizona.

Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 08, 2014, 06:21:42 PM
You will also have to obtain special insurance, US insurance does not carry over to the Mexican side of the border. let me say that again US INSURANCE DOES NOT CARRY OVER THE BORDER!

You will be on your own once you cross the border to Mexico.

If you are in a bad area i would sugguest you carry a first aid kit, a set of road flares, hazard triangle, extra oil+coolant, i would not trust the oil down there, you may not get something that meets the standards of your engine. It even happens in the USA at small gas stations, selling oil fit for a lawnmower only (no detergent) and calling it a 10W30 for cars. I would say take two 5 quart jugs of cheap 5W30 oil with you, Wal*Mart brand, two gallon Jugs of Universal Coolant, several jugs of drinkable water, and a jerry can for fuel. If your phone is unlocked and a GSM device, i would purchase a mexican cell carrier sim card once accross the border so you do not get roaming charges.

Do you have any other vehicles?

I'm ordering car insurance before I go from Bestmex.

Can you take oil, antifreeze, and a can of gas across the border?

I have a crappy Tracfone. They don't work in Mexico. I'd have to buy a cheap throwaway phone that works in Mexico once I cross the border.

The Neon is my only car. It runs great though. I just did a 4 hour nonstop trip in Indiana with it today.

Quote from: US 41 on July 08, 2014, 06:31:00 PM

Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 08, 2014, 06:21:42 PM
You will also have to obtain special insurance, US insurance does not carry over to the Mexican side of the border. let me say that again US INSURANCE DOES NOT CARRY OVER THE BORDER!

You will be on your own once you cross the border to Mexico.

If you are in a bad area i would sugguest you carry a first aid kit, a set of road flares, hazard triangle, extra oil+coolant, i would not trust the oil down there, you may not get something that meets the standards of your engine. It even happens in the USA at small gas stations, selling oil fit for a lawnmower only (no detergent) and calling it a 10W30 for cars. I would say take two 5 quart jugs of cheap 5W30 oil with you, Wal*Mart brand, two gallon Jugs of Universal Coolant, several jugs of drinkable water, and a jerry can for fuel. If your phone is unlocked and a GSM device, i would purchase a mexican cell carrier sim card once accross the border so you do not get roaming charges.

Do you have any other vehicles?

I'm ordering car insurance before I go from Bestmex.

Can you take oil, antifreeze, and a can of gas across the border?

I have a crappy Tracfone. They don't work in Mexico. I'd have to buy a cheap throwaway phone that works in Mexico once I cross the border.

The Neon is my only car. It runs great though. I just did a 4 hour nonstop trip in Indiana with it today.

I would carry all but the gasoline, have the jerry can empty, still sealed, with the receipt. Fill your gas tank up with only high octane fuel. You do not want to deal with mixing lower octanes when you go through mountainous regions.

Steve Gum, do you actually know much about Mexico? Mexican gas is good gas- probably more trustworthy than some American gas stations. PEMEX gas is federally distributed and is uniformly processed to the same standard. Absolutely no need to carry cans of extra gas if he's staying on toll roads- he's more likely to have problems from inhaling the fumes carrying the gas cans inside a Neon than he is to actually need that gas. It might be advisable to fill up a bit more frequently than normal, but there's no reason to carry extra gas.

Really, though, a good chunk of the Mexican population is driving cars that are as "shitty" as a 1995 Dodge Neon, and they get by just fine. You will too. With a Dodge Neon, you're not going to need to worry about octane ratings- whatever they're selling will work fine.

There are Walmarts and things in Mexico too, it's not like you're driving to the Canadian arctic or something- I might wait until I get down there to buy that stuff, if you even do so. It'll be cheaper. Mexico is a poorer country, but it's a civilized, populated country with plenty of services. A first aid kit is always a good idea, but flares and a triangle are probably excessive since you won't be driving at night (don't drive at night).

Quote from: corco on July 08, 2014, 07:15:41 PM
Steve Gum, do you actually know much about Mexico? Mexican gas is good gas- probably more trustworthy than some American gas stations. PEMEX gas is federally distributed and is uniformly processed to the same standard. Absolutely no need to carry cans of extra gas if he's staying on toll roads- he's more likely to have problems from inhaling the fumes carrying the gas cans inside a Neon than he is to actually need that gas. It might be advisable to fill up a bit more frequently than normal, but there's no reason to carry extra gas.

Really, though, a good chunk of the Mexican population is driving cars that are as "shitty" as a 1995 Dodge Neon, and they get by just fine. You will too.

There are Walmarts and things in Mexico too, it's not like you're driving to the Canadian arctic or something- I might wait until I get down there to buy that stuff, if you even do so. It'll be cheaper. Mexico is a poorer country, but it's a civilized, populated country with plenty of services. A first aid kit is always a good idea, but flares and a triangle are probably excessive since you won't be driving at night (don't drive at night).

Corco, do you drive in mountains?

In the USA you can get 85 octane in mountains. You are not supposed to use it if you are just traveling through, as once you get down to sea level it will start to ping and knock.

Quote from: corco on July 08, 2014, 07:15:41 PM
since you won't be driving at night (don't drive at night).

I don't like to drive at night anyways. My lights are terrible. My brights are probably dimmer than most people's dims. I always drive with my brights on anywhere I go. No one ever flashes their lights at me. When dark hits I'm going to pull into the next Pemex Parking Lot and go to sleep. 

Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 08, 2014, 07:42:00 PM

Quote from: corco on July 08, 2014, 07:15:41 PM
Steve Gum, do you actually know much about Mexico? Mexican gas is good gas- probably more trustworthy than some American gas stations. PEMEX gas is federally distributed and is uniformly processed to the same standard. Absolutely no need to carry cans of extra gas if he's staying on toll roads- he's more likely to have problems from inhaling the fumes carrying the gas cans inside a Neon than he is to actually need that gas. It might be advisable to fill up a bit more frequently than normal, but there's no reason to carry extra gas.

Really, though, a good chunk of the Mexican population is driving cars that are as "shitty" as a 1995 Dodge Neon, and they get by just fine. You will too.

There are Walmarts and things in Mexico too, it's not like you're driving to the Canadian arctic or something- I might wait until I get down there to buy that stuff, if you even do so. It'll be cheaper. Mexico is a poorer country, but it's a civilized, populated country with plenty of services. A first aid kit is always a good idea, but flares and a triangle are probably excessive since you won't be driving at night (don't drive at night).

Corco, do you drive in mountains?

In the USA you can get 85 octane in mountains. You are not supposed to use it if you are just traveling through, as once you get down to sea level it will start to ping and knock.

Yes, in fact I actually live in the land of 85 octane gas. It varies by engine, but for the most part small 4 cylinder engines do just fine with 85 even when driving downhill. A bigger V6 or V8 will probably knock.

That being said, I don't even think they sell 85 in Mexico.

Quote from: US 41 on July 08, 2014, 07:49:04 PMWhen dark hits I'm going to pull into the next Pemex Parking Lot and go to sleep.

that works, or any quiet side street in any poblado.  or find a hotel for ~$30 if your spine is starting to feel the nights of road sleep.

http://www.focusonmexico.com/About_Mexican_Fuels.html

Quote from: SteveG1988 on July 08, 2014, 07:42:00 PM
In the USA you can get 85 octane in mountains. You are not supposed to use it if you are just traveling through, as once you get down to sea level it will start to ping and knock.

In the USA, you can get 85 octane only in places that are more than a gas tank away from sea level.  In California's Sierra Nevadas (high elevation, but it takes less than a tank to reach sea level), the lowest octane available is 87.  That said, if I'm driving toward lower altitudes, I'll mix in some higher octane gas to be safe.

Having refueled exactly once in Mexico (near sea level), I can't speak to how Pemex deals with altitude changes. 

Has anyone ever crossed the border into Mexico by vehicle? I am probably going to cross the border on Texas SR 255 and sort of bypass Nuevo Laredo. I've read that this border is faster than the one in Laredo.

Now a question I really need answers to. When I enter Mexico, can I buy car insurance, a temporary import permit, and a tourist card at the border? Or do I have to get that stuff before I go?

Quote from: US 41 on July 30, 2014, 01:24:33 PM
Has anyone ever crossed the border into Mexico by vehicle? I am probably going to cross the border on Texas SR 255 and sort of bypass Nuevo Laredo. I've read that this border is faster than the one in Laredo.

Now a question I really need answers to. When I enter Mexico, can I buy car insurance, a temporary import permit, and a tourist card at the border? Or do I have to get that stuff before I go?

You can buy insurance at the border. The other stuff you'll actually get about fifty kilometers or so inside the border as you leave the border zone and pass through the first internal checkpoint (garita). I'm not sure exactly where that is in that area, but make sure you are taking a route that leads you to an internal checkpoint with those services, and not just one that is designed mainly for Mexican nationals. There is almost certainly one on 85, the question would be what kilometer post.

The internal garitas 20-50 km in are the real Mexican border. There's a decent chance you won't even have to talk to somebody as you enter Mexican soil though youd want to get insurance as soon as you enter the country. Plan on a car search as you cross the garita.

Thanks for the response. Now I'm not going to worry as much about it. I'm sure Mexican customs officials will be able to help me out too and point me in the right direction.

Quote from: US 41 on July 30, 2014, 01:41:54 PM
Thanks for the response. Now I'm not going to worry as much about it. I'm sure Mexican customs officials will be able to help me out too and point me in the right direction.

park immediately after you cross the border.  get out of your car, and ask a few questions.  I do not know this for sure, but I bet that the vehicle importation office is right at the border.  Nuevo Laredo is a big enough crossing that they should have all facilities. 

definitely don't get to the internal frontier without all your ducks in a row.  the officials there have the right to seize a vehicle.  hopefully they would just make you turn around, but that is not a guarantee.  I say do not leave Nuevo Laredo without your paperwork in complete order.

Quote from: US 41 on July 30, 2014, 01:41:54 PM
Thanks for the response. Now I'm not going to worry as much about it. I'm sure Mexican customs officials will be able to help me out too and point me in the right direction.

Jake has done this more than me, so listen to him

So should I cross at the busy crossing in Laredo or the Colombia crossing (TX 255)? Do all crossings have the same services?

Quote from: US 41 on July 30, 2014, 01:51:47 PM
So should I cross at the busy crossing in Laredo or the Colombia crossing (TX 255)? Do all crossings have the same services?

I've never been to either.  but, I believe Columbia was designed for truck traffic.  I say go with the city crossing in Laredo.  get there at 6am and they shouldn't be too busy. 

Quote from: US 41 on July 30, 2014, 01:51:47 PMSo should I cross at the busy crossing in Laredo or the Colombia crossing (TX 255)? Do all crossings have the same services?

I wouldn't try the SH 255 crossing since the smaller crossings that typically operate as satellites of nearby larger crossings often don't have the required facilities (such as a Banjercito module) for handling temporary vehicle importation.  I found this to be the case in the vicinity of Juárez when I tried to return to the US through Santa Teresa.

Here is a quick, concise primer on getting yourself and your vehicle into Mexico:

*  Buy insurance before you cross the border--there will typically be multiple insurance agents in border towns.

*  At the border crossing, obtain a tourist permit (used to be FMT-3, is now FMM something or other).

*  Also at the border crossing, find the adjacent Banjercito module and present your tourist permit, your driver's license, your passport, your credit card, and a document that proves your ownership of your vehicle (a registration receipt will normally suffice for this).  It will probably take about ten minutes to process all of the paperwork, and in return you will get a receipt and a hologram sticker, silvered on one side, which is to be applied to the inside of your windshield.  (It rips when it is peeled off so that the same sticker cannot be transferred from one vehicle to another.)  (It is possible some of the larger border crossings don't have Banjercito modules--if that is the case, there will typically be a Banjercito module at the internal frontier crossing.)

*  At the Customs facility at the internal frontier (people on this thread have called it garita but I don't recall ever seeing one signed as such; the advance signing tends to say things like "Pare para inspección aduanal a 300 m"), present your passport, your tourist permit, and the receipt for the temporary vehicle importation.

*  The tourist permit should have a detachable counterpart which has to be handed in with money at a Mexican bank that is authorized to accept payment for tourist permits.  (The form has a list, but essentially all of the major Mexican banks, including Banjercito, are so authorized.)  If you emerge from the Banjercito module with this counterpart still attached to the form, make sure you stop at a bank in the Mexican interior and make payment, otherwise there will be trouble the next time you enter Mexico.

*  When you prepare to return to the USA, you need to check your car out of Mexico, otherwise the presumption will be that it has been sold illegally in Mexico and it will be confiscated the next time it is taken into Mexico.  When you pass the internal frontier for the last time, hand over your windshield sticker.  You should receive in return a certificate indicating that the temporary vehicle importation has been successfully cancelled.

If you make this trip with another person, remember that that person cannot legally drive the car in Mexico unless he or she is listed as an owner or you are a passenger in the car.

In regard to the other issues that have been mentioned:

*  I wouldn't worry about a slow oil leak around the sump, but I definitely wouldn't drive long-distance with a coolant leak.  The cooling system is pressurized and it is probable the radiator has a crack that will only get wider if the car is subjected to many hours of operation with a warmed-up engine.

*  Parts availability in Mexico could be an issue because not all vehicle models available in the US are sold in Mexico, and those that are available in both countries tend to have very different fuel systems.  As an example, Mexican Fords continued to have variable-venturi carburetors long after the equivalent US models went over to throttle-body and then to multiport fuel injection.  Big American sedans could also continue to be ordered with 350 CID (5.7-L) engines in Mexico long after the maximum size available in the US became 305 CID (5.0 L).  When I travelled in Mexico, I drove a 1986 Nissan Maxima sedan and never worried about repairs because the Maxima is also sold in Mexico.  I drive a 1994 Saturn SL2 now and would have reservations about taking it south of the border because, as far as I know, Saturns were never sold in Mexico.

*  I don't get the hate for the libres.  They do tend to be a little rough with sharp curves, but they are fine as long as you are careful with topes, unsignalized railroad crossings (a full stop is invariably required), and cunetas (paved drainage gullies) that start right at the edge of the traveled way.  The toll roads are faster and more modern in design, but often have more checkpoints (nice variety of alphabet-soup Mexican law enforcement agencies--FPP, PJE, PGR, . . .), and some have a history of cartel infestation (tourists used to be told to avoid Mex. 15D in Sinaloa for this reason).

Edit:  If you are looking for an uncongested border crossing point with good chances of a Banjercito module right at the border, a fairly isolated small town is better than bigger places like Laredo/Nuevo Laredo, Nogales, El Paso/Juárez, and so on.  I have crossed twice at Presidio/Ojinaga without problems.  There really needs to be a website that lays out details of the experience at each of the authorized border crossings, but I have never found such a thing.

Thank you so much J N Winkler. Basically I just need to purchase insurance at Sanborns in Laredo, cross early in the morning, purchase a tourist card when I'm crossing the border, and get a temporary import permit as soon as I cross at a Banjercito. I think I will use the main crossing in Laredo. I found the Importation office on Google Maps. I assume that I will probably cancel the permit in the same place I got it from. 

Quote from: US 41 on July 08, 2014, 07:49:04 PMI don't like to drive at night anyways. My lights are terrible. My brights are probably dimmer than most people's dims. I always drive with my brights on anywhere I go. No one ever flashes their lights at me. When dark hits I'm going to pull into the next Pemex Parking Lot and go to sleep.

Well, that's because nobody really flashes their lights anymore.  I suppose they have a fear of retribution/road rage, or something.  I promise they're bothering people regardless.

Are they cloudy and yellow?  If so, you can get a restoration kit with sanding and polishing pads that attaches to a power drill that will clear them up.  You can also get plug-in wiring harness kits that attach directly to the battery and use relays to control switching.  No such kit was available for my car (a 1990 Volvo) so I made one from scratch.  Through the factory wiring, my headlight bulbs were getting 11.3v.  Through my custom wiring harness, the headlight bulbs get full running voltage, which is 13.75v.  Halogen bulbs lose efficiency (brightness) with voltage drop on a scale that is not linear; for every one volt you lose, you lose 20% efficiency.  I was down ~2.5v.  The difference was absolutely astounding, and this car has glass headlights.  Sylvania XtraVision bulbs will make a pretty big difference, too.

Quote from: US 41 on July 31, 2014, 09:11:31 AMThank you so much J N Winkler. Basically I just need to purchase insurance at Sanborns in Laredo, cross early in the morning, purchase a tourist card when I'm crossing the border, and get a temporary import permit as soon as I cross at a Banjercito. I think I will use the main crossing in Laredo. I found the Importation office on Google Maps. I assume that I will probably cancel the permit in the same place I got it from.

You are welcome.  You don't actually have to cancel the permit at the place where it was issued, but it is one location where you don't have to hunt for a Banjercito module.

About Pemex gas:  there are two scams that are usually talked about.  One is adulteration, where a Pemex station dilutes the gas with a cheaper petroleum fraction (like kerosene or heating oil), and the other is failure to zero the pump before dispensing gasoline.  I have only travelled in northern Mexico (Chihuahua and Sonora), but I have tracked fuel consumption for every car I have owned, and it has been my experience that fuel economy in Mexico or on Mexican-purchased fuel is in line with fuel economy in the US or on US-purchased fuel.  This would not be the case if the gas were impure or I were being robbed blind at the pump.

That said, Pemex stations are mandatory full-serve and things happen very quickly once you specify how much gas you want (either a set amount in liters or llenarse el tanque, por favor).  I don't think I have ever actually seen the pump indications start at zero--my eyes don't move that fast.

based on my scouting of the Laredo/Nuevo Laredo crossings on Google Earth and Streetview, I believe the process works something like this:

1) Buy insurance before crossing.
2) Cross the main bridge south of the end of I-35. If you get a red light, stop for inspection, if you get a green light, proceed.
3) Drive to the vehicle import office, which is basically under the bridge, but you have to drive a long way to get there. You'll turn left and drive through city streets, then be forced to make a right turn onto the road paralleling the river, and then make a left (almost a U-turn) onto the parallel road going back towards the bridge. Right under the bridge you'll come to the import office. It is signed.
4) You do FMM visa and vehicle import papers and Banjercito all in that one building. When you leave, you should have all papers.
5) Drive out the same way you came in, go back to the "river road" and continue south along the river until you intersect Mex 85. Turn left onto it going south, and right past Mex 2 you'll come to the inspection station.
6) Looks like there is an immigration booth and a customs stop (red light green light), and then you're in!

Coming home, there is actually a Banjercito booth on the approach to the bridge back to the USA where you can turn in your vehicle permits. Otherwise, drive back to the same place you got your permits from just before crossing.

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 30, 2014, 04:02:55 PM
*  Buy insurance before you cross the border--there will typically be multiple insurance agents in border towns.

I actually buy mine online via Sanborn's website.  they work directly with the relevant companies in Mexico (I end up with Seguros HDI every time, but it may be different if your intended travel plans take you elsewhere.)

http://www.sanbornsinsurance.com/

Quote*  At the border crossing, obtain a tourist permit (used to be FMT-3, is now FMM something or other).

FMM.  ask for 180 days.  officially, you have to cancel the card, but I've had one casually discarded by an official upon boarding an airplane in Cabo San Lucas, without any sort of formal cancellation, so I think that (unlike vehicle importation, which is by-the-book), they really don't care too much about this.  they do, however, check at the aduana (internal frontier) for the FMM so make sure you have gotten a valid one.

Quote*  Also at the border crossing, find the adjacent Banjercito module and present your tourist permit, your driver's license, your passport, your credit card, and a document that proves your ownership of your vehicle (a registration receipt will normally suffice for this).

I have, before all my trips that need vehicle importation, made copies in advance of license, passport's identity page, credit card, registration, title, and Mexican insurance.  the vehicle importation personnel have taken these copies gleefully, so I recommend that you carry such copies with you.  I do not take the title with me, but I do have the originals of all the other documents, which various officials have wanted to see from time to time.

Quote(It is possible some of the larger border crossings don't have Banjercito modules--if that is the case, there will typically be a Banjercito module at the internal frontier crossing.)

Nogales Fiscal is like this.  but that is a very, very special case.  if you are returning via Nogales (hwy 15), you need to make the decision 30 km south of the border to enter the fiscal corridor, because if you enter it, there is no way out, no turnaround, etc.  the cancellation module for your vehicle importation permit will be just south of the 15D (fiscal)/15 (city) split, so make sure you take care of the exit there.

QuoteWhen you pass the internal frontier for the last time, hand over your windshield sticker.  You should receive in return a certificate indicating that the temporary vehicle importation has been successfully cancelled.

I do not believe this is 100% correct.  the procedure is correct; however I do not believe that the aduana points at the internal frontier are all capable of handling an exit.  as I mentioned, for 15, you will need to do so at the kiosks that are just south of the fiscal split before Nogales.  I was able to do this without even exiting my car.  the attendant reached into the car, scraped off the sticker, and handed me a receipt.

this is a special case because 15 in certain places forms the border between the frontier and internal Mexico.  it is travel to the east of 15 which will quickly run you into an aduana inspection.  I believe there is one on 14 just east of Hermosillo; I drove past it in the other direction without thinking yet about vehicle importation cancellation, knowing I could do it at the Nogales 30km shop.  (I had imported my vehicle there the day before.)

*  I don't get the hate for the libres.  They do tend to be a little rough with sharp curves, but they are fine as long as you are careful with topes, unsignalized railroad crossings (a full stop is invariably required), and cunetas (paved drainage gullies) that start right at the edge of the traveled way.  The toll roads are faster and more modern in design, but often have more checkpoints (nice variety of alphabet-soup Mexican law enforcement agencies--FPP, PJE, PGR, . . .), and some have a history of cartel infestation (tourists used to be told to avoid Mex. 15D in Sinaloa for this reason).[/quote]

the libres are also far, far more interesting.

I've had about the same density of checkpoints on libres vs. cuotas but part of it may be because I have driven many libre roads that simply do not have a cuota equivalent.

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 31, 2014, 03:35:45 PM
About Pemex gas:  there are two scams that are usually talked about.  One is adulteration, where a Pemex station dilutes the gas with a cheaper petroleum fraction (like kerosene or heating oil), and the other is failure to zero the pump before dispensing gasoline.  I have only travelled in northern Mexico (Chihuahua and Sonora), but I have tracked fuel consumption for every car I have owned, and it has been my experience that fuel economy in Mexico or on Mexican-purchased fuel is in line with fuel economy in the US or on US-purchased fuel.  This would not be the case if the gas were impure or I were being robbed blind at the pump.

That said, Pemex stations are mandatory full-serve and things happen very quickly once you specify how much gas you want (either a set amount in liters or llenarse el tanque, por favor).  I don't think I have ever actually seen the pump indications start at zero--my eyes don't move that fast.

I have never had a problem at the Pemex.  once I had to negotiate from a terrible exchange rate (10 pesos per dollar) to a mediocre one (11.5, when the formal exchange rate was 12.5) but that was entirely my fault for not having sufficient pesos.

that's one thing to keep in mind: have pesos!  USD will be taken in a pinch, but you're on your own for negotiating the value of a USD - and lots of places simply will not have credit card service.  all of the big cities will have exchange facilities, and, in addition, most towns will have ATMs that allow withdrawal in pesos.  (don't forget to call your bank in advance and let them know you will be using your card in Mexico.) 

how many pesos do you need per day?  that's entirely based on your budget and the sort of experiences you need, but a good overestimate is to budget everything out in dollars, and then be pleasantly surprised when things are less expensive.  so if you're thinking $50 in gas per day, $50 for a hotel per night, $20 for a meal, then add all that up and exchange that many pesos at the first cambio you see in Nuevo Laredo.  you may end up with a fistful of pesos at the end of the trip, which you can change back (at a bit less than favorable exchange rate, unless you get lucky with arbitrage) at your home bank.  (in my case, I always keep my pesos, since I am a frequent visitor to Mexico.)

Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2014, 04:18:09 PM

I have never had a problem at the Pemex.  once I had to negotiate from a terrible exchange rate (10 pesos per dollar) to a mediocre one (11.5, when the formal exchange rate was 12.5) but that was entirely my fault for not having sufficient pesos.

that's one thing to keep in mind: have pesos!  USD will be taken in a pinch, but you're on your own for negotiating the value of a USD - and lots of places simply will not have credit card service.  all of the big cities will have exchange facilities, and, in addition, most towns will have ATMs that allow withdrawal in pesos.  (don't forget to call your bank in advance and let them know you will be using your card in Mexico.) 

how many pesos do you need per day?  that's entirely based on your budget and the sort of experiences you need, but a good overestimate is to budget everything out in dollars, and then be pleasantly surprised when things are less expensive.  so if you're thinking $50 in gas per day, $50 for a hotel per night, $20 for a meal, then add all that up and exchange that many pesos at the first cambio you see in Nuevo Laredo.  you may end up with a fistful of pesos at the end of the trip, which you can change back (at a bit less than favorable exchange rate, unless you get lucky with arbitrage) at your home bank.  (in my case, I always keep my pesos, since I am a frequent visitor to Mexico.)

Things are cheaper in Mexico, anyway. Even though the exchange rate is 1:13, actual prices are more like 1:9.

(Based on information from several websites.)

Quote from: 1 on July 31, 2014, 04:27:33 PM
Things are cheaper in Mexico, anyway. Even though the exchange rate is 1:13, actual prices are more like 1:9.

that is, I think, backwards.

it's also enough of a mindfuck of a sentence that after 5 minutes of staring at it, all I could go with was "I think".

According to Sanborn's website there is a Banjercito at the Colombia crossing that is open from 8 a.m. to midnight everyday. I think I'm going to go for that crossing. The average wait is usually 10-15 minutes if that. I'd like to enter at a easier crossing especially since I've never done this before.

I have 2,120 MXN Pesos right now. I'll obviously need more however. The toll prices will cost me about $180 (around 2300-2400 pesos). I will probably start out taking the toll roads. As I become more comfortable with Mexico I might meander onto the libres. I don't really want to chance it too much on the libres though. At least if I break down on the cuotas I can get towed by the Green Angels.

If you need pesos, find out whether your bank has an affiliation with a Mexican bank that lets you use the latter's ATMs without paying fees. I always use the Banorte ATM in Cozumel for that reason. Just be careful and use common sense when deciding whether a particular one is OK to use.

Quote from: US 41 on July 31, 2014, 07:30:18 PM
As I become more comfortable with Mexico I might meander onto the libres. I don't really want to chance it too much on the libres though. At least if I break down on the cuotas I can get towed by the Green Angels.

if you break down on the libre, you figure something else out.  flag someone down. 

Is 'libre' the correct term for free roads? I was of the impression that the two English uses of the word 'free', usually clarified with free-as-in-freedom and free-as-in-beer, map to different words in Spanish, with 'libre' referring to the free-as-in-freedom one (which is why you'll sometimes see the more pretentious free-software types refer to it as 'libre software' instead).

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 31, 2014, 09:47:15 PM
Is 'libre' the correct term for free roads? I was of the impression that the two English uses of the word 'free', usually clarified with free-as-in-freedom and free-as-in-beer, map to different words in Spanish, with 'libre' referring to the free-as-in-freedom one (which is why you'll sometimes see the more pretentious free-software types refer to it as 'libre software' instead).

yep, they even have "LIBRE" written on the guide signs.

in this case, it means freedom of access.  you can abut it as you see fit.  this as opposed to, interestingly, the US term "freeway" (implying "free as in freedom", because there are toll freeways) which is limited-access.

My only border crossing experience was through Canada. I never knew Mexico was so much more complicated.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 31, 2014, 09:47:15 PMIs 'libre' the correct term for free roads? I was of the impression that the two English uses of the word 'free', usually clarified with free-as-in-freedom and free-as-in-beer, map to different words in Spanish, with 'libre' referring to the free-as-in-freedom one (which is why you'll sometimes see the more pretentious free-software types refer to it as 'libre software' instead).

As Jake says, "libre" is the word used on guide signs.  But, actually, there is not that much difference between English free and Spanish libre.  My Spanish dictionary gives multiple uses of libre which correspond to English free as in the phrase "free of charge":  libre a bordo (free on board), libre de franqueo (freepost), libre de impuestos (tax-free).

I don't think the libre/cuota distinction in general takes account of the standard of access control.  Mexico has a number of tolled roads (e.g., Mex. 45 north of Chihuahua) which are not really closed corridors in the same sense as American freeways.  Meanwhile, there are libres in urban areas which have some of the features of freeways, such as comprehensive grade separation and access by ramps only (even if the separation between the main lanes and an adjacent "frontage road" is only pavement with some topes and faded striping).

The word cuota on guide signs and the letter D on toll-road shields are both abstractions of the standard phrase carretera directa de cuota = direct highway with tolls.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 31, 2014, 04:13:06 PM

Quote from: J N Winkler on July 30, 2014, 04:02:55 PMWhen you pass the internal frontier for the last time, hand over your windshield sticker.  You should receive in return a certificate indicating that the temporary vehicle importation has been successfully cancelled.

I do not believe this is 100% correct.  the procedure is correct; however I do not believe that the aduana points at the internal frontier are all capable of handling an exit.  as I mentioned, for 15, you will need to do so at the kiosks that are just south of the fiscal split before Nogales.  I was able to do this without even exiting my car.  the attendant reached into the car, scraped off the sticker, and handed me a receipt.

This is more or less what happened when I passed through the same kiosks in 2003.

It is also worth adding, in the interests of greater clarity, that there are two pitfalls to keep in mind when cancelling temporary vehicle importation.  It is, in fact, a much greater hassle to cancel the importation than it is to obtain it in the first place.

*  Once the importation is cancelled, you cannot backtrack to a location in Mexico that is behind the internal frontier, even to access a highway that leads to a different and possibly less congested exit point.  At Mex. 15 south of Nogales, for example, your choices of exit point are basically limited to Nogales III/Mariposa (north end of the corredor fiscal, so called because the border customs is located at the south end of the freeway, many kilometers south of the actual border) and urban Nogales/DeConcini.  This is because the cancellation kiosks are located north of the Mex. 2 intersection in Imuris (north end of a Mex. 2/Mex. 15 overlap that begins in Santa Ana).  If you want to return through Sasabe (God help you), you have to make that decision in Santa Ana, and if you want to return through Naco or Douglas, you must turn at Imuris.  Unless you have detailed advance knowledge of the port you propose to use as an exit point, you have to make the decision without knowing whether import cancellation will be possible there.  Quite often it isn't, as I discovered in 2002 when I tried to exit through Santa Teresa.

*  The potential pitfall to choosing an exit point that turns out not to have a Banjercito module or cancellation facilities is a lengthy round trip for the sole purpose of cancellation.  The options then are to drive to another border crossing that has issue (and thus cancellation) facilities right at the border, or to backtrack into Mexico and attempt cancellation at an internal frontier crossing (as an example:  I don't think the internal frontier behind Ojinaga has cancellation facilities, but the one south of Juárez does).  Smaller crossings tend not to have StreetView coverage and thus it is not possible to determine what facilities are available just by looking at imagery, as Mike has done upthread in the case of Laredo/Nuevo Laredo.

Border waits in or near major cities can be quite long, as I discovered in 2003 when I exited at Nogales III/Mariposa.  At the time it had limited hours of operation and I was waiting for about two hours before discharge of my car battery gave me a legitimate excuse to jump the queue and appeal to US immigration for a jumpstart.  (They provided it, but to get it I had to roll the car down the hill and across the magic line, since neither the US official nor the battery charger could set foot on Mexican soil.)  I later read in the Arizona Daily Star (the local newspaper for Tucson) that wait times reached eight hours plus.  People stuck in the queue when the US port of entry closed had to backtrack down the corredor fiscal, clear Mexican customs, and then drive into downtown Nogales to attempt crossing at DeConcini, which has 24-hour opening.  This was at the tail end of the Christmas holiday and the delays were blamed on Californians trying to get back from the Sonora coast in time to get their kids back in school.

I would say, in general, that it is worthwhile to drive far out of one's way to avoid major ports of entry.  As an example, Imuris to Tucson is 178 km through Nogales but 310 km through Naco, which means you come out ahead exiting through Naco even if the wait at Nogales is a relatively short 1 1/2 hours.

Quote from: J N Winkler on August 01, 2014, 12:02:37 PM
As Jake says, "libre" is the word used on guide signs.  But, actually, there is not that much difference between English free and Spanish libre.  My Spanish dictionary gives multiple uses of libre which correspond to English free as in the phrase "free of charge":  libre a bordo (free on board), libre de franqueo (freepost), libre de impuestos (tax-free).

interesting.  I had always thought "free as in beer" was gratis.  is that a different dialect of Spanish than Mexico? 

QuoteI later read in the Arizona Daily Star (the local newspaper for Tucson) that wait times reached eight hours plus.

and here I thought 7 hours at Otay was bad!  I crossed at Nogales Fiscal before I had SENTRI.  17 minute wait, on a Sunday morning. 

QuoteI would say, in general, that it is worthwhile to drive far out of one's way to avoid major ports of entry.  As an example, Imuris to Tucson is 178 km through Nogales but 310 km through Naco, which means you come out ahead exiting through Naco even if the wait at Nogales is a relatively short 1 1/2 hours.

I've only crossed Naco on foot.  there was no one there, either in the vehicle or pedestrian lines.  US customs gave me an exit interview out of sheer boredom.  "gonna get dinner and a bottle of tequila, back in half an hour."  yep, half an hour later... "bottle of tequila?" "yes indeed."  fastest US entry from Mexico ever.  (this was a Saturday afternoon.)

in general, I had always thought "Arizona waits are significantly better than California ones" - so much so that after coming back from San Felipe, I was tempted to head all the way over to San Luis Rio Colorado or even Sonoyta -- before deciding to cross back at Mexicali East instead.

Honestly, I will probably not go north on 15D to Nogales. I will probably go back east through the tunnels. It's not everyday you can go on a road with over 60 tunnels and the continent's highest bridge.

Quote from: US 41 on August 01, 2014, 02:05:37 PM
Honestly, I will probably not go north on 15D to Nogales. I will probably go back east through the tunnels. It's not everyday you can go on a road with over 60 tunnels and the continent's highest bridge.

which road are you planning on crossing back on?  if you do a loop entirely in Mexico and return via 85, then you have the advantage of knowing the facilities from your entry.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 01, 2014, 02:13:37 PM

Quote from: US 41 on August 01, 2014, 02:05:37 PM
Honestly, I will probably not go north on 15D to Nogales. I will probably go back east through the tunnels. It's not everyday you can go on a road with over 60 tunnels and the continent's highest bridge.

which road are you planning on crossing back on?  if you do a loop entirely in Mexico and return via 85, then you have the advantage of knowing the facilities from your entry.

If I come back through the tunnels I'll go via 85 to the border (Colombia crossing). If I go on 15 I'll leave at the Nogales crossing (maybe Naco as J N Winkler suggested, I looked it up and it does have a Banjercito).