If a road is not signed, what would be the default speed limit? Does it vary by state?
In Washington, the RCW defines speed limits, which are the defaults unless otherwise posted. 60 for state highways, 50 for county routes (of which we have none), and 25 for towns.
It depends on the type of road. It probably varies from state to state, but I would imagine only slightly.
Summing up Wisconsin's laws for "defaults" (SS 346.57 (https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/346/IX/57) if you want the explicit details):
- 15 mph in a school zone/near a school xing or park
- 15 mph in an alley
- 25 mph in residential areas
- 35 mph in commercial areas
- 45 mph on rustic roads
- 65 mph on a freeway or expressway
- 55 mph anywhere else
Quote50 for county routes (of which we have none)
Washington has thousands of miles of county maintained highway.
Quote from: corco on July 14, 2014, 01:34:34 AM
Quote50 for county routes (of which we have none)
Washington has thousands of miles of county maintained highway.
Is that what they meant, then? I didn't quite translate it properly. I thought it meant "county routes". In retrospect, that makes no sense.
It varies by state. In Texas, by statute the default speed limit on a rural state-maintained road is 70 mph. The default on a rural non-state maintained road is 60. A rural zone is technically a road outside of an "urban district," defined as an area with structures for human habitation or occupation no more than 100 feet apart for at least a quarter mile. In an urban district the default is 30 mph, except for an alley, with a default limit of 15.
I know that some counties adopt a different default. Johnson County, after a significant increase in rural truck traffic related to gas production, adopted a default of 40, and 30 for trucks. I'm not sure how the county order is considered, legally, on roads without speed limit signs when state law prescribes a different default. Some cities have signs that say "SPEED LIMIT XX" "ALL CITY STREETS UNLESS OTHERWISE SIGNED." Due to the signage, which I've never seen for a county in Texas, I'm pretty sure that's legally solid. I've noticed multiple counties in Oklahoma have signs saying that the speed limit on all county roads is 45 unless otherwise signed. I don't know if that's by state law or determined by each county.
As said earlier, it varies by state. Here in New York, the default "state speed limit" of 55 mph applies unless otherwise posted. To remind drivers of this, state policy is for all 55 signs to say "state speed limit 55". While urbanized and residential areas always have lower speed limits, there is no explicit state law requiring this. At the end of a speed limit under 55, it is not uncommon (but becoming rarer) to see a sign stating "end xx mph limit" or the old version, "end xx mile speed", where xx is the lower speed limit. While this means the speed limit reverts to 55, many do not know this and treat it very differently.
NJ is, (unless otherwise signed):
25 mph when passing through a school zone during recess, when the presence of children is clearly visible from the roadway, or while children are going to or leaving school, during opening or closing hours;
25 mph in any business or residential district;
35 mph in any suburban business or residential district
50 mph in all other locations, except as otherwise provided in the 65 MPH Speed Limit Implementation Act
In reality, it's extremely rare to find a road without a speed limit not in a residental or city environment. I can only think of 1 road that doesn't have a signed speed limit.
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2014, 08:12:36 AM
As said earlier, it varies by state. Here in New York, the default "state speed limit" of 55 mph applies unless otherwise posted. To remind drivers of this, state policy is for all 55 signs to say "state speed limit 55". While urbanized and residential areas always have lower speed limits, there is no explicit state law requiring this.
Along the lines of the "State Speed Limit 55" signs, there are also sometimes "City Speed Limit 30" or "Village Speed Limit 30" as you enter a city or village to indicate the default speed limit within that municipality. I think I've even seen some "Area Speed Limit 45" or similar variations.
QuoteAt the end of a speed limit under 55, it is not uncommon (but becoming rarer) to see a sign stating "end xx mph limit" or the old version, "end xx mile speed", where xx is the lower speed limit. While this means the speed limit reverts to 55, many do not know this and treat it very differently.
It has been a huge improvement as New York has replaced many of those "End xx MPH Limit" signs with the much clearer posting of the new actual speed limit.
Quote from: Jim on July 14, 2014, 09:21:41 AM
It has been a huge improvement as New York has replaced many of those "End xx MPH Limit" signs with the much clearer posting of the new actual speed limit.
The main places with the cryptic signage are Region 5, Saratoga County, and Erie County. Region 4 places them only if they're followed by a 55 sign within a short distance. I've never seen a 55 on a Saratoga County road and Erie County has about 15 55 signs, half of which were added last year to a stretch of road under 5 miles long. Region 5 loves posting them before intersections (something strictly forbidden by the state supplement to the MUTCD) and not following up with a 55.
Vermont clearly signs a default speed limit of 50 mph at its borders.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 14, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
NJ is, (unless otherwise signed):
25 mph when passing through a school zone during recess, when the presence of children is clearly visible from the roadway, or while children are going to or leaving school, during opening or closing hours;
25 mph in any business or residential district;
35 mph in any suburban business or residential district
50 mph in all other locations, except as otherwise provided in the 65 MPH Speed Limit Implementation Act
In reality, it's extremely rare to find a road without a speed limit not in a residental or city environment. I can only think of 1 road that doesn't have a signed speed limit.
New Jersey used to post the 25/50 defaults on or next to its Welcome signs when entering the state. I definitely remember a sign like this coming off the Walt Whitman into NJ, but a quick Google Street View scan shows these signs are long gone, at least for the south Jersey bridge crossings...
As others have said, it varies by state and states approach these sorts of things differently. Virginia has a statute (Va Code 46.2-870) titled "Maximum speed limits generally," but that section is followed by a series of other provisions including, but not limited to, "Maximum speed limits at school crossings; penalty" (46.2-873); "Maximum speed limit on nonsurface-treated highways" (46.2-873.1); "Maximum speed limit on rural rustic roads" (46.2-873.2); "Maximum speed limit in business and residence districts" (46.2-874); "Exceptions to maximum speed limits in residence districts; penalty" (46.2-874.1); "Maximum speed limit on certain other highways in cities and towns" (46.2-875); and various others.
The "generally" statute (46.2-870) applies a default speed limit of 55 mph to "interstate highways or other limited access highways with divided roadways, nonlimited access highways having four or more lanes, and all state primary highways"; on other highways, the default speed limit depends on the type of vehicle (either 55 or 45). Then there is a paragraph allowing speed limits of up to 70 mph on certain highways following traffic and engineering studies and up to 60 mph on certain specified segments of certain highways, again following traffic and engineering studies. In other words, 55 mph is the default speed limit on the main roads because a higher speed limit is never automatic under Virginia law.
Other default speed limits (all of which may be increased or decreased, though often a traffic and engineering study is required):
- School buses–posted speed limit applies except buses are limited to either 45 mph or the posted minimum speed if the speed limit is 55 mph or less, or 60 mph if the speed limit is higher than 55 mph
- School zones–25 mph and the statute applies restrictions on the times during which the school zone speed limit may apply
- Dirt and gravel roads "that have not been stabilized with a bituminous or cementitious material"–35 mph
- Rural rustic roads (designated pursuant to statute)–35 mph unless a different limit was in effect on a given road on 1 July 2008, in which case it still applies
- Business and residence districts–25 mph "except on interstate or other limited access highways with divided roadways or nonlimited access highways having four or more lanes and all state primary highways"; the latter two categories' speed limit "shall remain as indicated by signs posted prior to July 1, 2005, unless changed as provided by law."
- Exception to residence districts–certain cities and towns specified by statute may post a default speed limit of either 20 mph or 15 mph in residence districts
- "Certain other highways in cities and towns"–35 mph "except on interstate or other limited access highways with divided roadways and in business or residence districts."
Minimum speed limits: "No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law." The statute allows the posting of a numeric minimum, but I've never seen such posted anywhere in Virginia.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 14, 2014, 10:58:15 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 14, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
NJ is, (unless otherwise signed):
25 mph when passing through a school zone during recess, when the presence of children is clearly visible from the roadway, or while children are going to or leaving school, during opening or closing hours;
25 mph in any business or residential district;
35 mph in any suburban business or residential district
50 mph in all other locations, except as otherwise provided in the 65 MPH Speed Limit Implementation Act
In reality, it's extremely rare to find a road without a speed limit not in a residental or city environment. I can only think of 1 road that doesn't have a signed speed limit.
New Jersey used to post the 25/50 defaults on or next to its Welcome signs when entering the state. I definitely remember a sign like this coming off the Walt Whitman into NJ, but a quick Google Street View scan shows these signs are long gone, at least for the south Jersey bridge crossings...
Yep, that sign used to sit in this patch of grass, which is where traffic from 130 merges into 76 East. Those signs are extremely rare to find now.
US 9W had one on the left side of the road right where the old alignment of US 9W continues straight while then present alignment veers to the right. I have a photo of it and its 25 in urban/ 50 in rural or as posted.
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.000429,-73.911686,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1swnjTEbsYDpKdkPhzUBLF8w!2e0 It has since been moved but GSV shows it at its new location.
300,000 kilometers per second, everywhere.
And it's strictly enforced.
:-D
Quote from: Jardine on July 14, 2014, 01:47:55 PM
300,000 kilometers per second, everywhere.
And it's strictly enforced.
:-D
Touché.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 14, 2014, 08:41:15 AM
NJ is, (unless otherwise signed):
25 mph when passing through a school zone during recess, when the presence of children is clearly visible from the roadway, or while children are going to or leaving school, during opening or closing hours;
25 mph in any business or residential district;
35 mph in any suburban business or residential district
50 mph in all other locations, except as otherwise provided in the 65 MPH Speed Limit Implementation Act
In reality, it's extremely rare to find a road without a speed limit not in a residental or city environment. I can only think of 1 road that doesn't have a signed speed limit.
I wonder if you were thinking Wemrock Road in Freehold, NJ, between CR 522 and Route 33 (http://goo.gl/maps/Pcd4w). There it is not signed, but upon crossing the Route 33 bridge, there is a sign that says "Reduced Speed Ahead" (http://goo.gl/maps/mmDTR), which then you enter a 35 zone, then going onto Stillwells Corner Road (http://goo.gl/maps/Iz4BI). However, before this, there are no signs. I called up Freehold Township to see if they can put them up, but they don't want to. I needed to write a formal letter to the police department.
In Oregon:
15 MPH: Alleys, narrow residential areas (ambiguous?)
20 MPH: In any business district, within a school zone
25 MPH: In residential districts, In public parks, On ocean shores (if permitted)
55 MPH: On all other roads/highways not meeting any other definition
65 MPH: Rural interstates (not sure if this is a "default" legally; interstate speed limits are well posted)
Source: http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/37.pdf (page 34; PDF page 42)
Quote from: Jardine on July 14, 2014, 01:47:55 PM
300,000 kilometers per second, everywhere.
And it's strictly enforced.
:-D
Some neutrinos occasionally claim to have exceeded the limit, but it's usually experimental error. Make sure your fiber couplers are securely fastened!
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 14, 2014, 05:40:11 PM
Quote from: Jardine on July 14, 2014, 01:47:55 PM
300,000 kilometers per second, everywhere.
And it's strictly enforced.
:-D
Some neutrinos occasionally claim to have exceeded the limit, but it's usually experimental error. Make sure your fiber couplers are securely fastened!
Theoretically, it is possible to travel faster than the speed of light, but I'll let the physicists explain that one
Theoretically, or "theoretically"? Every experiment I've seen where someone claims to observe a particle moving faster than light has later been shown to be experimental error.
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 14, 2014, 06:08:50 PM
Theoretically, or "theoretically"? Every experiment I've seen where someone claims to observe a particle moving faster than light has later been shown to be experimental error.
It's serious. Miguel Alcubierre theorized that a "warp bubble" could be created, but that is far beyond the scope of this forum.
I have a very hard time putting any faith in a theory whose creator admits it can't be tested "for centuries if at all" (https://twitter.com/malcubierre/status/362011821277839360).
Unless it's changed in more recent years, there are many county roads in Salem County in NJ that have no posted speed limits.
Quote from: J Route Z on July 14, 2014, 01:09:25 AM
If a road is not signed, what would be the default speed limit? Does it vary by state?
Yes to your 2nd question.
The only two I know of locally is alleyways are 5 mph and open rural roads are 55 (45 for the isolated gravel one)
The speed limit in Connecticut is 30 MPH unless otherwise posted.
Connecticut speed limits are low.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 16, 2014, 12:18:33 AM
The speed limit in Connecticut is 30 MPH unless otherwise posted.
Connecticut speed limits are low.
Tell me about it, I drove US 7 through it and only the freeway portions were at 55 mph. Of course that is only between Danbury and New Milford, where everything else is two lanes and arterial. Therefore the speed limit was only 40 mph (maybe 45 in some spots) even in the rural areas of NW Connecticut.
Nevada only has one default speed limit:
Nevada Revised Statutes, Chapter 484 (http://www.leg.state.nv.us/NRS/NRS-484B.html#NRS484BSec600)
Quote
NRS 484B.600 Basic rule; additional penalties for violation committed in work zone or if driver is proximate cause of collision with pedestrian or person riding bicycle.
1. It is unlawful for any person to drive or operate a vehicle of any kind or character at:
(a) A rate of speed greater than is reasonable or proper, having due regard for the traffic, surface and width of the highway, the weather and other highway conditions.
(b) Such a rate of speed as to endanger the life, limb or property of any person.
(c) A rate of speed greater than that posted by a public authority for the particular portion of highway being traversed.
(d) In any event, a rate of speed greater than 75 miles per hour.
<snip>
QuoteVermont clearly signs a default speed limit of 50 mph at its borders.
With two categories above that. Default (unless otherwise signed) for limited-access highways is 55 MPH, whereas the default for rural 4-lane freeways (this to include US 4 west of Rutland) is 65 MPH.
Not every town follows the 50 MPH default either. Some towns set their default at 35 MPH, though this is not applicable to state highways.
Quote from: Duke87 on July 16, 2014, 12:18:33 AM
The speed limit in Connecticut is 30 MPH unless otherwise posted.
Connecticut speed limits are low.
New nickname for the state based on at least two cases (the other being the NEC rail) - "The antiquated state" :rofl:
Default speed limits for California...
15 MPH
* uncontrolled railroad crossing (i.e. no flagger or electronic gates & lights)
* uncontrolled, blind intersections
* all alleys
25 MPH (does not apply if the road is a state highway)
* within all business districts and residential areas
* school zones
* senior citizen facilities
55 MPH
* 2-lane undivided highways
65 MPH
* multi-lane highways
Of course, the maximum speed limit in California is 70 MPH.
Montana's defaults are (if my knowledge serves me):
Between 25-45 for local streets not including highways or interstates.
Between 55-70 for state highways, 60 for trucks.
70 for US highways, 60 for trucks, except when entering a community like Missoula, Polson, etc.
75 for I-15, 90 and 94, 65 for trucks.
QuoteBetween 55-70 for state highways, 60 for trucks.
Default is 70/60 on state highways, even unpaved state highways unless otherwise posted. Some state highways have speed limits between 55 and 70, but they're posted as such so it's not the default speed. If you turn on a state highway and there's no speed limit sign, the speed limit is 70.
Here is the MCA to that effect http://leg.mt.gov/bills/mca/61/8/61-8-303.htm
I know my county's speed limit is 35 on county roads unless otherwise posted, but there's very few speed limit signs. I think the Ovando-Helmville backroad (55) is the only exception to that rule. Oddly, I can't find that statute that authorizes that without doing an engineering study on all the roads, and I guarantee our county has never done that (unless "engineering study" can be interpreted really loosely). It may be illegal, but I don't think our barneys have ever written a speeding ticket on a county road anyway.
I've researched our road history in detail (searching the commissioner's journals for every single mention of the word "road" or "highway"), but for abandonment/establishment reasons- I didn't document the speed limit fiasco as I was researching this, but I know the speed limit on county roads didn't come into effect until Montana went "reasonable and prudent"- county roads were 55 prior to that time in accordance with NMSL. After NMSL was repealed, people started hauling ass on county roads, freaking people out and damaging the roads (we have very, very few miles of paved county road), causing the commissioners to pass an emergency resolution declaring the speed limit to be 35. At some point that was rolled into a normal resolution, and they've been 35 ever since, perhaps illegally. Given the state of documentation on road abandonments (I found several roads that we didn't know we had, and a few that we thought we had abandoned but never actually finished abandoning), this wouldn't surprise me.
In Idaho, I've noticed a lot of these signs:
Entering Caldwell:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fe7iACZk.png&hash=da69861130704dd0ccd93abc6a083df8c57469c3)
If you can't read it, the bottom says "UNLESS OTHERWISE POSTED"
Entering Nampa:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FH4InbaK.png&hash=e17eacdc95aefd289de2c501950358a5a041ba88)
(Both pictures from Google Street View)
These signs are both posted on arterials with a 45 Speed Limit. The first one in particular could be confusing, because if you aren't familiar with it, it looks like a instant drop from 45 to 20.
I've never seen anything like that in Oregon (that has well defined default speeds), so I'm guessing Idaho doesn't have much in the way of state defaults, leaving it up to local jurisdictions.
There are a bunch of signs like that entering New York City, even on expressways and parkways. If posted on a road with a higher speed limit, the higher speed limit is usually posted immediately after this sign. Rarely do I see somebody slow down from 55+ to 30 when they cross the city line.
Everywhere else in the state uses the aforementioned "village/city/town/area/etc. speed limit" signs instead of these. I have always wondered why NYCDOT hasn't switched over.
If I get it good, in the province of Québec, the default speed limit is 50 km/h (30 mph).
A municipal entity can lower its default maximum (and minimum) speed on the streets under its jurisdiction. Thus, in 2009, the city of Montréal lowered its default speed limit to 40 km/h (25 mph), except on the arterial network where it remained at 50 or was raised to 60 (37 mph) on controlled-access roads. That is why you might see "MAXIMUM 40 SECTEUR" (Maximum 40 Area) signs when driving the streets of MTL.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fville.montreal.qc.ca%2Fpls%2Fportal%2Fdocs%2Fpage%2Farrond_cdn_fr%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2Fpublic%2Fph_panneau_40km_secteur_mdp.jpg&hash=cf2a3add99fcea4863b825d3e2b1f684fd8ec24c)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fville.montreal.qc.ca%2Fpls%2Fportal%2Fdocs%2Fpage%2Farrond_cdn_fr%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2Fpublic%2Fph_exemple_signalisation_tgl.jpg&hash=3d2cbc27d56287a331df88d50dea5c2a335ec3b4)
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2014, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 14, 2014, 05:40:11 PM
Quote from: Jardine on July 14, 2014, 01:47:55 PM
300,000 kilometers per second, everywhere.
And it's strictly enforced.
:-D
Some neutrinos occasionally claim to have exceeded the limit, but it's usually experimental error. Make sure your fiber couplers are securely fastened!
Theoretically, it is possible to travel faster than the speed of light, but I'll let the physicists explain that one
I wouldn't want to go faster than the speed of light anyway because then my hat would blow off. :)
Quote from: hm insulators on July 22, 2014, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: cl94 on July 14, 2014, 05:59:14 PM
Quote from: algorerhythms on July 14, 2014, 05:40:11 PM
Quote from: Jardine on July 14, 2014, 01:47:55 PM
300,000 kilometers per second, everywhere.
And it's strictly enforced.
:-D
Some neutrinos occasionally claim to have exceeded the limit, but it's usually experimental error. Make sure your fiber couplers are securely fastened!
Theoretically, it is possible to travel faster than the speed of light, but I'll let the physicists explain that one
I wouldn't want to go faster than the speed of light anyway because then my hat would blow off. :)
Quote
Junior: Daddy, my hat blew off!
Sheriff Justice: I hope your God damn head was in it!
Quote from: cl94 on July 21, 2014, 03:39:01 PM
There are a bunch of signs like that entering New York City, even on expressways and parkways. If posted on a road with a higher speed limit, the higher speed limit is usually posted immediately after this sign. Rarely do I see somebody slow down from 55+ to 30 when they cross the city line.
Everywhere else in the state uses the aforementioned "village/city/town/area/etc. speed limit" signs instead of these. I have always wondered why NYCDOT hasn't switched over.
I should have mentioned that probably 100 ft or so after the SPEED LIMIT 20
UNLESS OTHERWISE POSTED sign, there is a standard SPEED LIMIT 45 sign, so if you drive through there once, it's pretty obvious what you're supposed to do. Then again, some people are stupid.