AARoads Forum

http://wivb.com/2014/07/25/cuomo-signs-law-approving-new-handicapped-signs/

Quote from: WIVB-TV, BuffaloALBANY, N.Y. (WIVB) — The old, familiar handicapped signs will soon be a thing of the past.

Governor Andrew Cuomo has signed a law that changes the traditional image of a wheelchair bound character used on ramps and accessible parking to show a character in motion. The new law also prohibits the use of the word "handicapped"  from being displayed on signs and instead only allows for the word "accessible."

Old on the left, new on the right.

I don't see what's wrong with what we have now.

The new sign marginalizes people in electric wheelchairs- are they not good enough to be recognized? Will their feelings not be hurt when they feel like they should be able to propel the wheelchair themselves?

I really don't see the point here.

It looks like the person is falling off.

Wow, this change is extremely pointless. Did people actually care about the old handicap (I'm sorry - accessibility) symbol?

Is the new character doing things the Max Power way — the same, but faster?

I know at least one person has mentioned being a wheelchair user on this forum. Being more or less able-bodied, I don't have any real opinion on either symbol. As far as I'm concerned–and honestly, it really doesn't matter what I think–people can use whatever makes them feel good.

Looks like a gang tag

Looks like he is using the toilet.

Quote from: Big John on July 27, 2014, 02:55:06 PM
Looks like he is using the toilet.

Looks like he fell in said toilet.

If this is the kind of thing Cuomo and the New York legislature are worried about, then I guess everything is just peaches and cream in the Empire State.

Racing wheelchairs only - no cars can park there now - regardless. :awesomeface:

EDIT:

QuoteIn a prepared statement, Cuomo said, "This bill is an important step toward correcting society's understanding of accessibility and eliminating a stigma for more than one million New Yorkers, and I am proud to sign it into law today."

The signs were given an update to emphasize the person rather than the disability itself.

HOW!??? 

The new one actually looks like a person sitting in something rather than the outline of the chair itself.

Also, the action pose seems ripe for meme comedy.

This is Euphemism at its best.  "They actually think that if they change the name of something it changes the thing itself! </paraphrase of a George Carlin quote>.  Ok, sensitivity becomes defensive awareness...

Cuomo's statement reeks of political correctness.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 27, 2014, 04:33:52 PM
Cuomo's statement reeks of political correctness.

Absolutely it does, and in this case I think there's an equally valid liberal politically correct rant to make that the new symbol is worse than the old symbol, because it singles out able-bodied people in wheelchairs as opposed to the elderly with mobility issues or the more significantly handicapped that can't move at all.

The disabled folks that need accommodation the least are now the ones on the sign, which is silly. Abled body, active wheelchair users are fully capable of parking far away and wheeling themselves to where they need to go (and often do so for the exercise, just as non wheelchair users frequently park away on purpose just for the exercise), as long as ramps and things are in place to make that physically possible.

Yeah, it promotes healthy lifestyles and independent wheelchair users, but it also marginalizes those with more substantial mobility issues by not including them on the sign- are they lesser people because they should be capable of propelling their own wheelchairs? The old symbol was more generic, which is good.

Either way, I think the whole thing is a load of hooey.

As I read it, this requirement only applies to "any new or replaced state signage". This means counties, municipalities, and private businesses are free to continue using the traditional symbol.

Meanwhile, I have no aesthetic objection to the new symbol. If anything it looks more modern and more stylistically appropriate for the 21st century. The old symbol looks like something out of the 1990s (because, well, it is).


I agree that all this nonsense about "oh no, we can't use the word handicapped" and "we need to show them in motion!" is dumb, although I do fault both the old and new symbols for having an entirely different flaw - namely, that not everyone who is handicapped is confined to a wheelchair, and the symbol therefore marginalizes people on crutches, using walkers, etc. Because of this symbol I have grown up with the idea in my head that "handicapped" equals "in a wheelchair" and those other possibilities seem less important since they're not what the picture shows. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

For an example of why this brings about unproductive thinking, I will point to the NYC subway. The vast majority of stations are not handicapped accessible at all, since they were built decades before the idea of handicapped people going out and taking care of themselves was a thing. In efforts to try and comply with ADA as much as is feasible, a lot of effort has been spent on adding elevators to stations so that people in wheelchairs may get in and out of them. But elevators are a rather low capacity form of vertical transportation, so they are not an efficient way of getting people in and out of a station. Especially when, the way most stations are set up, you need two elevators for each trip - one from the platform to the mezzanine level behind the turnstiles, and another from in front of the turnstiles to the street.

Realistically speaking, the majority of handicapped people are not confined to a wheelchair - they are elderly people who can walk, but can't handle climbing stairs very well. The subway would be made more accessible to a majority of handicapped users if the MTA made a point of installing escalators rather than elevators. This would also benefit all users since it would legitimately improve pedestrian flow (escalators are the highest capacity form of vertical transport available), and unlike elevators they never break down, they just temporarily become stairs. 

But, nope, the law says elevators or bust. Cost versus benefit be damned.

Well I'm definitely gonna hold handicapped people to this new standard. If I see this symbol start to appear on wheelchair crossing signs, I'll know I don't need to slow down as much.  :awesomeface:

It looks like it could be a sign for Wheelchair Basketball.

Couldn't New York State's money be better spent?  We really do not need a "new symbol" for those in wheelchairs or those with limited mobility.  The current one has worked for nearly 40 years.

Quote from: burgess87 on July 27, 2014, 01:30:14 PM
I don't see what's wrong with what we have now.

Because it looks like a toilet, that's why. When I was growing up in the '70s, I actually thought that symbol was a toilet.

I think it's like this:

OLD
Wheelchair user static
Passive
Invalid

NEW
Wheelchair user engaged in moving self
Active
Living productive life

It's silly to spend money on new signs, but as they replace them, I don't see the problem in updating the symbol. 

The problem with a single state changing a sign is that you start breaking away from uniformity.  And...many of those with wheelchairs aren't racing along.  They are barely getting from point a to point b.

Let's come up with a symbol for those that have a handicap placard, look fine while walking, but claim it's for a disability that one can't see but something could happen at any moment.  (Do those conditions exist for some people? Sure.  But if the parking lot is generally empty, these people could also use a regular parking spot right next to the handicap spots, freeing up the spots for those that truly need them.)

It's silly season folks.  Election time in the most dysfunctional state government in the Union. :rolleyes:

Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 28, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
It's silly season folks.  Election time in the most dysfunctional state government in the Union. :rolleyes:

Well, voters in NY State can change that this coming fall.  Will they? is another topic for another forum.

Quote from: Duke87 on July 27, 2014, 05:43:00 PMThe old symbol looks like something out of the 1990s (because, well, it is).

It's actually been around since the 70s... maybe even the late-60s 1968.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 28, 2014, 09:19:41 AM
The problem with a single state changing a sign is that you start breaking away from uniformity.

Bingo!  IIRC, the standard symbol is used in all related ADA and MUTCD signage; regardless of which state one's in.

handi-capable!!!

Why was good money wasted on doing this?

Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 28, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
It's silly season folks.  Election time in the most dysfunctional state government in the Union. :rolleyes:

I take it you've never been to Indiana.

Symbol dates to 1968:

http://www.riglobal.org/symbol-of-access/

'Watch for wheelchair racers'

:nod:

Mike

Quote from: bandit957 on July 28, 2014, 11:35:02 AM

Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 28, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
It's silly season folks.  Election time in the most dysfunctional state government in the Union. :rolleyes:

I take it you've never been to Indiana Illinois.

FIFY.  Indiana actually functions when compared to highly dysfunctional Illinois.  Hell, 48 other states are functional when compared to Illinois.  Maybe 49 if California is having a good day.

This is not a new symbol. It's a modified version of the International Symbol of Accessibility, as designed by the Accessible Icon Project (http://www.accessibleicon.org/). According to the group, the new icon is ADA-compliant.

Sorry the image is so blurry...you can thank the project for that.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.accessibleicon.org%2Fuploads%2F1%2F3%2F8%2F3%2F13834741%2F7724517_orig.png&hash=eda70264b83c60289e73e99653f3c06f1afd0a03)

I prefer the headless design created by Susan Koefoed.

It's worth noting that I've sen the Brandan Murphy design from 1994 in British Columbia parking areas.

EDIT: Here's what the website says the new design is about:

"The Accessible Icon Project provides supplies and services to transform the old International Symbol of Access into an active, engaged image. We think visual representation matters. People with disabilities have a long history of being spoken for, of being rendered passive in decisions about their lives. The old icon, while a milestone in ADA history, displays that passivity: its arms and legs are drawn like mechanical parts, its posture is unnaturally erect, and its entire look is one that make the chair, not the person, important and visible. As people with disabilities of all kinds–not just chair users–create greater rights and opportunities for social, political, and cultural participation, we think cities should evolve their images of accessibility too".

Quote from: jake on July 28, 2014, 03:01:14 PM
This is not a new symbol. It's a modified version of the International Symbol of Accessibility, as designed by the Accessible Icon Project (http://www.accessibleicon.org/). According to the group, the new icon is ADA-compliant.

Sorry the image is so blurry...you can thank the project for that.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.accessibleicon.org%2Fuploads%2F1%2F3%2F8%2F3%2F13834741%2F7724517_orig.png&hash=eda70264b83c60289e73e99653f3c06f1afd0a03)

I prefer the headless design created by Susan Koefoed.

It's worth noting that I've sen the Brandan Murphy design from 1994 in British Columbia parking areas.

I think it's pretty funny that the Koefoed design is clearly meant to be an empty wheelchair. Someone was probably like "Oh, there should be a person in it", so they stuck a head onto the wheelchair's chair back and voila, instant person.

I like the Murphy design the best of all of these.

The first Street Art Campaign one looks like the wheelchair has a temporary second occupant, and the two are enjoying each other's company, if you know what I mean.

Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 28, 2014, 09:39:02 AM
It's silly season folks.  Election time in the most dysfunctional state government in the Union. :rolleyes:

I fail to see what Oklahoma has to do with this story!

Quote from: jake on July 28, 2014, 03:01:14 PM
This is not a new symbol. It's a modified version of the International Symbol of Accessibility, as designed by the Accessible Icon Project (http://www.accessibleicon.org/). According to the group, the new icon is ADA-compliant.

Sorry the image is so blurry...you can thank the project for that.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.accessibleicon.org%2Fuploads%2F1%2F3%2F8%2F3%2F13834741%2F7724517_orig.png&hash=eda70264b83c60289e73e99653f3c06f1afd0a03)

I prefer the headless design created by Susan Koefoed.

I concur.  It gets the point across about what most of these spaces and ramps are for - wheelchair access.  If you have a cane or walker, you can use things like stairs (some are actually easier than ramps) or spaces further out.

The new NY design lacks the uniformity of understanding that the ADA and Koefoed designs have.

I can't wait to see what happens when the first person who sees one of these signs gets confused and parks into the wrong spot.  The new design does not say "handicapped" or "wheelchair" but rather "cartoon physics running with extra legs".  Plus when was the last time you saw someone in a wheelchair lean forward like that (well, aside from one guy I knew that has an unnaturally curved spine)?

I'm also in favor of Murphy's design; it doesn't connote that wheelchair users are all fully-able paraolympic athletes with a semicircle shooting out of their rear, yet still suggests movement and emphases the person over the devise.

Quote from: Zmapper on July 28, 2014, 09:11:50 PM
I'm also in favor of Murphy's design; it doesn't connote that wheelchair users are all fully-able paraolympic athletes with a semicircle shooting out of their rear, yet still suggests movement and emphases the person over the devise.

Agreed fully- that's a nice compromise design.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 28, 2014, 11:37:47 AM
Symbol dates to 1968:

Ah... you know, that makes sense. There are clearly handicapped parking signs out there that are of 70s vintage. :P

I always assumed the symbol was created by ADA in 1990. But I suppose it was merely first mandated by it.

Quote from: corco on July 28, 2014, 09:13:26 PM

Quote from: Zmapper on July 28, 2014, 09:11:50 PM
I'm also in favor of Murphy's design; it doesn't connote that wheelchair users are all fully-able paraolympic athletes with a semicircle shooting out of their rear, yet still suggests movement and emphases the person over the devise.

Agreed fully- that's a nice compromise design.

Here's how Brendan Murphy justifies the design (from 1994 (http://www.graphicology.com/storage/article-images/MA_ADA%20Symbol.pdf)):

The present wheelchair symbol and its designation as a symbol for all disabled people has been reviewed because of the rigid image it portrays, and its association with the word "handicapped"  which literally means "cap in hand"  or "beggar."  It is our feeling that under no circumstances should the term "handicapped"  be used in conjunction with this new symbol or efforts to comply with the ADA.

The new symbol tries to be sensitive to both the message and the audience – the person is no longer imprisoned by the chair – the chair is merely the vehicle with which he or she gains access. Activity and movement are suggested with body positioning – the angle of the torso, and the "pushing position"  of the arm. It attempts to portray an active, independent person, in sharp contrast to the former symbol which has been described as dependent, rigid, and helpless.

We think this is a perfect example of how to progressively communicate easy access and consideration to citizens who have disabilities.

Epic sign fail...

Quote from: jake on July 28, 2014, 11:12:19 PM
Here's how Brendan Murphy justifies the design (from 1994 (http://www.graphicology.com/storage/article-images/MA_ADA%20Symbol.pdf)):

The present wheelchair symbol and its designation as a symbol for all disabled people has been reviewed because of the rigid image it portrays, and its association with the word "handicapped"  which literally means "cap in hand"  or "beggar."  It is our feeling that under no circumstances should the term "handicapped"  be used in conjunction with this new symbol or efforts to comply with the ADA.

Sorry Mr. Murphy, but no.  http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/handicap.asp

If one is going to promote changing something, one should do the proper research.  (It took me more time to read it than to find it.)

Quote from: GaryV on July 29, 2014, 06:50:41 PM

Quote from: jake on July 28, 2014, 11:12:19 PM
Here's how Brendan Murphy justifies the design (from 1994 (http://www.graphicology.com/storage/article-images/MA_ADA%20Symbol.pdf)):

The present wheelchair symbol and its designation as a symbol for all disabled people has been reviewed because of the rigid image it portrays, and its association with the word "handicapped"  which literally means "cap in hand"  or "beggar."  It is our feeling that under no circumstances should the term "handicapped"  be used in conjunction with this new symbol or efforts to comply with the ADA.

Sorry Mr. Murphy, but no.  http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/handicap.asp

If one is going to promote changing something, one should do the proper research.  (It took me more time to read it than to find it.)

To be fair, he conducted his research in 1994. But I understand your point.

Quote from: Pete from Boston on July 28, 2014, 09:11:28 AM
I think it's like this:

OLD
Wheelchair user static
Passive
Invalid

NEW
Wheelchair user engaged in moving self
Active
Living productive life

It's silly to spend money on new signs, but as they replace them, I don't see the problem in updating the symbol. 

For the record, I am that one person here on AARoads that uses a wheelchair.

As for the new signage, Pete's comments above sum it up for my opinion. I like that symbol as an update for the 21st century. Despite my being paralyzed below the waist, I still try to lead a fairly active life. No two physical impairments are alike, of course. But to capture all the different types of disabilities, you'd need multiple symbols. 

Seems PC to me, but the big problem is the lack of universality.  If you travel, you know what a "whatever" sign or symbol is.  If every jurisdiction goes its own way, then we hurt the people we are trying to help.

To me, the new symbol looks like either:
a. a wheelchair racer going at speeds that rival what my cousins and I would do when screwing around with Grandpa's wheelchair
b. a cartoon runner with a dust cloud generated by his cartoon legs before the cartoon physics cause him to shoot forward like a rocket with speed lines behind him.

And why does the wheelchair have two semi-circles rather than one circle?

Quote from: vdeane on August 02, 2014, 12:16:56 PM
And why does the wheelchair have two semi-circles rather than one circle?

Because it broke.

Quote from: 1 on August 02, 2014, 12:21:42 PM

Quote from: vdeane on August 02, 2014, 12:16:56 PM
And why does the wheelchair have two semi-circles rather than one circle?

Because it broke.

The description offers the explanation that this invokes movement, and makes stenciling easier.

IMO they're invoking too much movement by making the wheelchair person look like he's in a race.  Personally, I never read anything into the old symbol, so I don't see the issue.  It was just there.  I was never once thinking "is the person passive or active" etc.

Dusting off this topic since FHWA has weighed in on the alternative symbols:  link. (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/2_09_111.htm)

So... The FHWA says that the new symbol shouldn't be used.
Interesting.

This is not a wheelchair symbol. It is a symbol that says "you may lean to one side if a circle is cut in a half unequally".

City of Phoenix, AZ is using the new Symbol/Graphic however is only placed on new/resurfaced pavement at on street parking meters/pay station spaces and on replacement & New Signs. Do not know if the Graphic is going to be used on Valley Metro buses owned by the City of Phoenix.   

Symbol Understandings (literally)

1968 - a nice little wheelchair  :D

1969/1984 - Add a head, now a sudden stickman appeared! He looks like he's sitting peacefully on a bitten orange.

1994 - Stickman is doing his yoga/gymnastics routine on a C.

2000 - More detailed than 1969/1984

2011 - Picture 1
You know that they're bros by sharing that wheelchair...how nice of them!

2011 - Picture 2
It looks like somebody is riding two circles and leaning forward for confidence. Watch for that stairstep that's about to come in 50 feet there.

2012 - Two magnets stuck together, and this guy used the magnets as a wheel and is a little bit overconfident. There's a car coming for you in about 50 inches.

I saw it for the first time in-person, at a Culvers in Wisconsin. Wasn't a fan of the new symbol before, like it even less now. Another potential issue, is the painted symbol does not match the posted sign. The designs aren't that far off, but I could potentially see someone getting confused/complaining.

Looking at it from a different angle, the latest version uses more paint, so it should take longer to wear away.

Neither FHWA nor the Federal ADA people have endorsed this new symbol  http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/2_09_111.htm

I actually like the new one, but I don't see how it really improves on the old one.

Quote from: roadman on June 12, 2015, 10:37:04 AM
Neither FHWA nor the Federal ADA people have endorsed this new symbol  http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/2_09_111.htm

Did you purposely re-post the link that Revive posted yesterday? Honest question :-D

Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2015, 01:44:25 PM

Quote from: roadman on June 12, 2015, 10:37:04 AM
Neither FHWA nor the Federal ADA people have endorsed this new symbol  http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/2_09_111.htm

Did you purposely re-post the link that Revive posted yesterday? Honest question :-D

Sorry.  My bad for not reading the other posts more thoroughly before I posted that.

Quote from: roadman on June 12, 2015, 02:02:51 PM

Quote from: jakeroot on June 12, 2015, 01:44:25 PM

Quote from: roadman on June 12, 2015, 10:37:04 AM
Neither FHWA nor the Federal ADA people have endorsed this new symbol  http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interpretations/2_09_111.htm

Did you purposely re-post the link that Revive posted yesterday? Honest question :-D

Sorry.  My bad for not reading the other posts more thoroughly before I posted that.

Oh hell, like I care. I've done that so many times. It's actually kind of a funny coincidence.