I pushed one today here in Huntsville and on the next cycle I got a walk signal.
Depends on where you live I guess.
They work here.
I notice them working — the walk signals go on, and all the traffic lights turn red.
I always laugh at the people who think pressing them six or seven times will somehow make the light change sooner. Same thing happens at elevators. Do people think it somehow doesn't count if they haven't pressed the button themselves?
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2014, 08:00:14 PM
I always laugh at the people who think pressing them six or seven times will somehow make the light change sooner. Same thing happens at elevators. Do people think it somehow doesn't count if they haven't pressed the button themselves?
No, it's just we have nothing better to do while we're waiting 1000000 million minutes for the signal to say "WALK."
1: I noticed that when I went to Boston (they stop all traffic, so you could basically just walk across the intersection if you wanted). They've implemented that in Takoma Park Maryland too, and I think it works great! And it only turns on if you press the button.
They do work, but not to get a faster green. It gives a walk signal when the signal would normally turn green so you have enough time to cross the road on the green. Other use is for actuated intersections where if there are no vehicles parallel to the crosswalk you are using, it will give the green and the walk signal where it would have otherwise skip the cycle and have a steady red.
They actually don't work. You all just got lucky and walked up at the right time.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 31, 2014, 08:53:40 PM
They actually don't work. You all just got lucky and walked up at the right time.
I guess I'm one lucky as hell person then. Because the pedestrian signals have changed every time I've walked up and pushed the button. :spin:
They notoriously aren't hooked up in NYC. Elsewhere, they almost always are hooked up. At the light at the entrance to my neighborhood for instance, the green for cars leaving the neighborhood is short but if the pedestrian button is pushed it shows the walk sign and extends the green long enough for pedestrians to cross the busy main road.
Quote from: realjd on July 31, 2014, 09:00:52 PM
They notoriously aren't hooked up in NYC. Elsewhere, they almost always are hooked up. At the light at the entrance to my neighborhood for instance, the green for cars leaving the neighborhood is short but if the pedestrian button is pushed it shows the walk sign and extends the green long enough for pedestrians to cross the busy main road.
There are several lights like that near our neighborhood. Makes sense for a six-lane arterial with a bus stop on each side. (Actually, counting the left-turn lane I guess it's seven lanes there.)
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 31, 2014, 08:58:25 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 31, 2014, 08:53:40 PM
They actually don't work. You all just got lucky and walked up at the right time.
I guess I'm one lucky as hell person then. Because the pedestrian signals have changed every time I've walked up and pushed the button. :spin:
You are - or the video detection is aimed at the sidewalk or a loop detector picked up your pocket change. :sombrero:
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 31, 2014, 08:58:25 PM
I guess I'm one lucky as hell person then. Because the pedestrian signals have changed every time I've walked up and pushed the button. :spin:
How does the signal operate when you DON'T press the push-button though? If the WALK still comes up, then you know the push-button is disabled and doesn't do anything.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 31, 2014, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 31, 2014, 08:58:25 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 31, 2014, 08:53:40 PM
They actually don't work. You all just got lucky and walked up at the right time.
I guess I'm one lucky as hell person then. Because the pedestrian signals have changed every time I've walked up and pushed the button. :spin:
You are - or the video detection is aimed at the sidewalk or a loop detector picked up your pocket change. :sombrero:
Quote from: tradephoric on July 31, 2014, 09:29:05 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 31, 2014, 08:58:25 PM
I guess I'm one lucky as hell person then. Because the pedestrian signals have changed every time I've walked up and pushed the button. :spin:
How does the signal operate when you DON'T press the push-button though? If the WALK still comes up, then you know the push-button is disabled and doesn't do anything.
I was being sarcastic.
I know all of the ones here in Huntsville work and the ones in Athens work as well.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 31, 2014, 07:32:45 PM
I pushed one today here in Huntsville and on the next cycle I got a walk signal.
Depends on where you live I guess.
The point is you would get a WALK if the push-buttons in Huntsville are disabled. Your initial post doesn't give enough information.
I've pushed a button to get the light on the main road to immediately turn yellow. The downside is that there's no "all red" between the end of the flashing don't walk and the green for the cars.
We all know that those in NYC do not work. With the amount of pedestrian traffic, having them is plain stupid. This is true with just about any place that has several pedestrians.
I've discovered that several in and around Buffalo do not work either. Some never trigger a walk cycle, but others will show the walk cycle even if the button is not pressed. The latter is obviously not an issue, but the former can get annoying. At NYSDOT signals, the walk cycle often triggers with a green light. Good example of this is US 20 / NY 78 at CRs 21/338 in Cheektowaga. County/city/village/town signals are a different story altogether.
There are some in Huntsville that don't work because a car knocked down a signal there and they haven't reactivated about half of the buttons there yet. They have the signs above them flipped so they face the poles instead.
I hardly ever have a reason to use them in Norman, but every time I do the signals certainly behave as though the buttons do work.
I was a little confused by the story. I'm guessing they tried to say that you won't get the walk signal the very moment you hit the button. Which is a good thing, because traffic would be unbelievably congested and gridlocked, and pedestrians would then be forced to squeeze between cars stuck in the gridlock. For many people, they probably drive into the city...meaning they would have been stuck in that same congestion.
Quote from: tradephoric on July 31, 2014, 09:29:05 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 31, 2014, 08:58:25 PM
I guess I'm one lucky as hell person then. Because the pedestrian signals have changed every time I've walked up and pushed the button. :spin:
How does the signal operate when you DON'T press the push-button though? If the WALK still comes up, then you know the push-button is disabled and doesn't do anything.
In my area, we have lights that are like that. But what some people fail to realize is that perhaps during the day (7a-7p) the lights run on a regular phasing cycle (part of a larger, area-wide synchronized system) which includes the crosswalk signals. During the off hours, these same lights go into "trip signal" mode and only change when it detects activity. That's when the crosswalk buttons come into play.
I questioned one upgraded intersection recently when I saw them install crosswalk buttons. I said, "WTF, the entire signal is on a timed cycle. What a waste of money". But then one night I happened to be through the area and realized that the intersection was running independently of others, and the crosswalk lights would not change on a green light.
Another reason why there may be buttons at an intersection with regular signal/crosswalk cycles is for the vision impaired -- the buttons may activate a "chirping sound" or other audio cue to let a visually-challenged person know when it is safe/not safe to cross. If the button is not pushed, then no cues/noises are made when the walk signal is activated. If you live/work within earshot of one of these intersections, it helps that you don't have to hear the crossing noises or tones EVERY 60 seconds -- only when the demand is there.
I have found that they do. You do not even have to hold the button until the green like most people do, however now the new style of call button is touch plate. There is no spring loaded button as to say, but you touch it like a touch screen and it beeps to let you know the call for the signal is placed.
Plus in Orange County, FL the School Crossing Guards do use them to make the light longer. In many places the crosswalks add twenty or so seconds to the signal green time. In LBV coming out of Crossroads Center, I have found when there is no pedestrians there the signal cheats those leaving the shopping center and creates a two or three light wait time. When the crosswalk is activated every vehicle leaving Crossroads makes the signal. It makes me want to leave my car and push the button when no pedestrians are present just to give the signal the proper timing it deserves.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 01, 2014, 12:53:58 AM
I hardly ever have a reason to use them in Norman, but every time I do the signals certainly behave as though the buttons do work.
They do work. I often see college kids waiting to cross at Lindsey who assume they don't work, and wonder why the light never changes.
Okay, they
usually work. There's a timer that sets a minimum delay before a button press will change the light. On weekends in the summer the lights on Lindsey are set so the delay is infinite, so automobile traffic always gets a green light and pedestrians never get a walk sign.
Quote from: thenetwork on August 01, 2014, 09:13:49 AM
Quote from: tradephoric on July 31, 2014, 09:29:05 PM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on July 31, 2014, 08:58:25 PM
I guess I'm one lucky as hell person then. Because the pedestrian signals have changed every time I've walked up and pushed the button. :spin:
How does the signal operate when you DON'T press the push-button though? If the WALK still comes up, then you know the push-button is disabled and doesn't do anything.
In my area, we have lights that are like that. But what some people fail to realize is that perhaps during the day (7a-7p) the lights run on a regular phasing cycle (part of a larger, area-wide synchronized system) which includes the crosswalk signals. During the off hours, these same lights go into "trip signal" mode and only change when it detects activity. That's when the crosswalk buttons come into play.
I questioned one upgraded intersection recently when I saw them install crosswalk buttons. I said, "WTF, the entire signal is on a timed cycle. What a waste of money". But then one night I happened to be through the area and realized that the intersection was running independently of others, and the crosswalk lights would not change on a green light.
Another reason why there may be buttons at an intersection with regular signal/crosswalk cycles is for the vision impaired -- the buttons may activate a "chirping sound" or other audio cue to let a visually-challenged person know when it is safe/not safe to cross. If the button is not pushed, then no cues/noises are made when the walk signal is activated. If you live/work within earshot of one of these intersections, it helps that you don't have to hear the crossing noises or tones EVERY 60 seconds -- only when the demand is there.
Those are good points. I never considered the pedestrian phase would be programmed to change mode type by time of day. However, is it worth the cost to install and maintain the push-buttons to reduce the delay for a small percentage of drivers (late night drivers)? Since the pedestrian phase would be designed to cycle from 7AM-7PM, how long would it take for the city to even realize when a push-button faults (and thus cycling the side-street 24/7 as opposed to 7AM-7PM)?
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on July 31, 2014, 08:53:40 PM
They actually don't work. You all just got lucky and walked up at the right time.
I once pushed the button and got a walk phase at an intersection that never displays walk. I must have gotten really lucky. And it's happened at other similar intersections too, every single time. I must be really lucky.
Quote from: wisvishr0 on July 31, 2014, 08:09:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 31, 2014, 08:00:14 PM
I always laugh at the people who think pressing them six or seven times will somehow make the light change sooner. Same thing happens at elevators. Do people think it somehow doesn't count if they haven't pressed the button themselves?
No, it's just we have nothing better to do while we're waiting 1000000 million minutes for the signal to say "WALK."
....
I just assumed nowadays anybody younger than age 30 would be completely focused on their little text messages to the point of forgetting they were waiting to cross the street! (Seriously, a few days ago I came up behind a guy who was waiting to merge onto an arterial street, but he didn't go when it was clear, so I went around him....he had his phone up on the steering wheel and had apparently forgotten he wanted to merge.)
A complaint I hear is that they work, but it doesn't matter because people push the button and cross long before the "walk" signal appears. Drivers then sit there fouling the air for 30 seconds.
Sometimes, they work here.
However, Saturday I walked from my house to the Radio Shack down the street. The lights on Turfway Road did not all work.
I always cringe when I happen upon a "cheap" crosswalk install that has a plastic button only about the size of my pinky nail. How long before some smart-alec kid(s) hit that button so hard to either jam it or shatter it inside the metal housing so you cannot push it. (Answer: Not long at all...)
The installs with the rubber covering around the last pretty long, and the newest of the bunch seem to be the best -- metal on metal with the button 3 or more inches wide. A far cry from that "microscopic" plastic button.
In DC, just about all signals call up the pedestrian phase on every cycle, meaning as a pedestrian, you need not push the button before you cross. There are enough pedestrians to justify this though. In my neighborhood, there are pushbuttons, and the only difference between pushing it and not pushing it is that the accessible ped crossing features (the speech indications, and chirping) only work when the button is pushed. Otherwise, all you hear is the pushbutton locator tone.
But out in Virginia on VDOT roads, you have to push the pedestrian pushbutton to trigger the walk. Otherwise, you will never see the walk signal. When you push the button, you immediately get 7 seconds of walk time, plus the flashing don't walk time if there is enough time to accomodate it in the current cycle, otherwise you get it at the beginning of the next cycle. The flashing don't walk ends whenever the flashing time maxes out, after the 7 seconds of walk indication, regardless of how much time is left on the cycle.
Oh, I remembered this story told to me by a longtime Florida traffic engineer. He was out doing field work one day, and he had to test the pedestrian signals to determine what the length of the walk and flashing don't walk phases were. So he pushed the pedestrian button, and then proceeded to watch the signal without actually crossing the street. Then he did it for the crosswalk in the other direction.
A police officer pulled up and told him that he can't push the button and then not cross, because he was holding up traffic. Only after a long explanation of what he was doing and showing his timing data sheets and business card did he get off. But seriously, who would try to ticket someone for something so inconsequential, and I would really love to know if there is actually a law that says, "once you push the button, you MUST cross".
Quote from: mtantillo on August 05, 2014, 07:28:33 PM
Oh, I remembered this story told to me by a longtime Florida traffic engineer. He was out doing field work one day, and he had to test the pedestrian signals to determine what the length of the walk and flashing don't walk phases were. So he pushed the pedestrian button, and then proceeded to watch the signal without actually crossing the street. Then he did it for the crosswalk in the other direction.
A police officer pulled up and told him that he can't push the button and then not cross, because he was holding up traffic. Only after a long explanation of what he was doing and showing his timing data sheets and business card did he get off. But seriously, who would try to ticket someone for something so inconsequential, and I would really love to know if there is actually a law that says, "once you push the button, you MUST cross".
There probably is no such law, but it's important to keep a respect for the law. This is especially important at ped only crossings. If there is no ped crossing, would people be willing to stop the next time?
In Los Angeles, they have a great mid-block crossing for pedestrians. You see this all over downtown and on certain busy pedestrian streets like Fairfax Ave. Drivers see a R-Y-G signal that only turns red when the pedestrians hit the button. But when the light turns red, the red light flashes. This means that if there are no pedestrians crossing (for instance a ped who crosses faster than the allotted time), drivers can treat the light as a stop sign and proceed even before the light turns green.
In the area I grew up, there's a signal for a pedestrian crossing. In theory, people going to/from the school and the historic neighborhood to the west can push the button and cross when the signal stops traffic. In practice, people push the button, jaywalk as soon as they see a break in traffic, only for the signal to stop traffic when they're long gone. It's not a frequently used crossing outside of school hours, and these days it probably wouldn't even be installed due to the frequency of jaywalking to the south and the decline in the number of walkers.
That generally depends on where you are located regarding traffic volume. Here in New Jersey, most crosswalks are actuated, in which is true for side streets of intersections. So, they do work; however, most pedestrians ignore the buttons to cross streets safely.
Being originally from New York City, I remember the inoperable buttons there. Most have been disconnected from service for over twenty years. Though some still work in certain areas, where traffic volume is low. Also, N.Y.C.D.O.T. continues to install them along with vehicular detection.
Quote from: mtantillo on August 05, 2014, 07:28:33 PM
A police officer pulled up and told him that he can't push the button and then not cross, because he was holding up traffic. Only after a long explanation of what he was doing and showing his timing data sheets and business card did he get off. But seriously, who would try to ticket someone for something so inconsequential, and I would really love to know if there is actually a law that says, "once you push the button, you MUST cross".
I imagine he could handwave it under some sort of "obstructing traffic" law, but whether it would stick in court might be interesting.
On a somewhat related note, there is a pedestrian crossing on Classen Boulevard (old US-77) in the Miller District of Norman. One of my friends used to live in the house adjacent to it (there's an elementary school across the street) along with five or six other people. On days with heavy traffic, or when someone was running late for work, it was a semi-regular thing to enlist the help of a friend to activate the signal so that someone from the house would have a clear shot out of the driveway!
I think the news story was extremely misleading by showing only the viewpoint of "big cities" with pre-timed signals in congested downtown areas. But that's not what people will get out of that story--people will think that all crosswalk buttons do not work everywhere. Even in its discussion of traffic congestion issues, there are other traffic coordination concerns where having the buttons activated is advantageous.
I.e. in Las Vegas, where signals are coordinated along a major arterial, the walk phase may show up automatically with the start of green on a major arterial but to cross the arterial along the side street requires pressing the button. Also, the main street coordination plan takes into account full green and walk time for the side street phases; however, if no pedestrian is there to activate the side street walk, the side street phase can end early resulting in early release for the major street.
Quote from: mrsman on August 05, 2014, 09:30:04 PM
In Los Angeles, they have a great mid-block crossing for pedestrians. You see this all over downtown and on certain busy pedestrian streets like Fairfax Ave. Drivers see a R-Y-G signal that only turns red when the pedestrians hit the button. But when the light turns red, the red light flashes. This means that if there are no pedestrians crossing (for instance a ped who crosses faster than the allotted time), drivers can treat the light as a stop sign and proceed even before the light turns green.
This, to me, sounds like a more intuitive approach to signaling a crosswalk than the new HAWK displays. I like the fact that it's always on (no dark phase as seen with a HAWK), but there's still the flashing red to allow cars to go if the crosswalk is clear.
As a driver, I like being able to judge where I am in the cycle when approaching a green light by observing the pedestrian indication through my peripheral vision. If I see a WALK, I know I have plenty of time to clear the intersection. If I see a FLASHING DON'T WALK (FDW), I know the light is about to change and be prepared to stop (if countdown timers are being displayed, ideally the light will change to yellow just as the countdown timer reaches zero). In some cases the signal won't change to yellow when there is no demand on the side-street and the signal is setup to REWALK, but that would be an exception that I can live with (since there are benefits of having a signal set up to REWALK). I never enjoy seeing a SOLID DON'T WALK as I'm approaching a green light since I have no idea when the signal is about to change. Now as a pedestrian, I like having the WALK extended for as long as possible to complete the crossing. I never enjoy seeing a SOLID DON'T WALK when there is plenty of time to safely cross the street.
If pushbuttons are used, drivers are likely to see a SOLID DON'T WALK when approaching a green light, which prevents the driver from knowing where they are in the cycle. Also, pedestrians are more likely to see a SOLID DON'T WALK even though there may be plenty of time to safely cross (since pushbuttons are often set up for only 7 second WALKS).
For these reasons, I think main-street push buttons should be used sparingly. There are cases when main-street pushbuttons are necessary but I think they are often overused. Now side-street pushbuttons are a whole different ballgame. Often times you want to skip the side-street when no vehicles are detected or shorten the side-street phase when no pedestrian are detected. In these cases, the use of side-street pushbuttons would be absolutely necessary. Basically, having pushbuttons at all 4 corners of an intersection is rarely needed (but you see it a lot).
Hopefully that made sense, or maybe i'm just rambling :hmmm:
Quote from: tradephoric on August 11, 2014, 05:09:41 PM
Hopefully that made sense, or maybe i'm just rambling :hmmm:
Yeah, I made sense of it. Except this part at the end:
Quote
... Basically, having pushbuttons at all 4 corners of an intersection is rarely needed (but you see it a lot).
For a typical 4-way intersection, even if you are only using push buttons for side street peds to cross, you still need a button on all four corners... :pan: