A former prolific poster on this forum alerted me that AASHTO Numbering decisions from 1967-87 can now be viewed on a wikipedia page: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Minutes_from_the_American_Association_of_State_Highway_and_Transportation_Officials
I've only been looking through some of these for a little while and already all kinds of nuggets I wasn't aware of:
US 13 was formally requested to extend southwest to Abbeville SC
US 270 was formally requested to extend north to I-70 Goodland KS
US 287 was formally requested to follow US 89 to Canada
US 251 was formally proposed in Illinois
VA 360 was requested to be US 360 ALT originally
I'm sure there's more to be learned...
Mapmikey
Here is a doozy from 1971:
Proposed extension of US 163 north to Yellowstone NP, following mostly today's US 191 (except would use WY 530). Not so unusual I suppose but they also proposed US 163E and US 163W.
163E would use current US 191 from I-80 north to US 189-191 jct while 163W would use US 30 to Kemmerer and US 189 north to 189-191 jct...
Mapmikey
Also of note, from the November 1975 meeting:
- Elimination of I-70S inside the Beltway (the unbuilt "North Central Freeway").
- Elimination of unbuilt I-95 inside the Beltway (though curiously "from I-295" instead of from the 3rd St Tunnel)
- Not sure if this was a typo or not, but it suggests that I-395 inside the Beltway was "conditionally approved as I-895" at first.
- Creation of I-97, I-197, I-297, "I-68" (later unsigned I-595), I-195, I-270, and I-370 in Maryland, as well as extending I-695 from I-95 to I-97.
In the November, 1972 meeting, Florida requested (but was denied) a US route along FL 50.
Apparently there used to be an I-70A and an I-70N in Columbus OH
Also, ND-SD tried to renumber US 85 as an extended US 385...
In June 1974 there was an I-53 conditionally approved for a route that would encompass I-155 and I-180.
Quote from: froggie on August 05, 2014, 07:52:54 AM
In the November, 1972 meeting, Florida requested (but was denied) a US route along FL 50.
In June 1975 Texas and NM tried to get a new US route from Dallas to Elida NM via mostly TX 114
Apparently, the Kansas Highway Commission/Department of Transportation had applied for business interstate designations. All of them were rejected, apparently because all of the routes were duplicated.
If you think US 321 into Tennessee is weird...
In June 1978, Tennessee tried to get US 74 extended, leaving NC at the I-40 crossing, then using TN 32 to current US 321 which it would've followed more less to I-40 west of Knoxville, then went northeast from there to end at US 25W Clinton.
Quote from: Mapmikey on August 05, 2014, 08:01:11 AM
Apparently there used to be an I-70A and an I-70N in Columbus OH
Current I-670?
QuoteIn June 1974 there was an I-53 conditionally approved for a route that would encompass I-155 and I-180.
Let me guess, Illinois tried for this with backing from boosters and politicians from Peoria.
Some others not yet mentioned, by month:
June, 1968
- Texas was denied an extension of US 90 from Van Horn north along TX 54 to US 62/180.
- Nebraska was denied a rerouting of US 75 between Omaha and Blair via NE 133.
- AASHO ratified the deletion of I-278 and addition of I-195 in New Jersey.
June, 1969
- Appears to be the month where AASHO gave its rubber stamp to the Interstate designations/extensions designated by the 1968 Howard-Cramer amendment (which added 1,500 miles to the system). Of note:
- Milwaukee to Green Bay was designated as "I-57"
- What is now free CO 470 in Denver was designated "I-470"
- The "northeast quadrant of a route in Phoenix", as I-410
- I-96 and I-196 in Michigan were swapped.
- Several Interstate redesignations in the New York City area, including the official removal of I-495 west of I-278/BQE.
October, 1969
- Action deferred on redesignating US 164 along today's US 163 from US 160/Kayenta, AZ to today's US 191, then north along today's US 191 to I-70/Crescent Jct, UT. Similar actions at the same time were also deferred on extending US 160 west along its existing route to US 89 (at the time, it followed today's US 491 to Monticello then today's US 191 to Crescent Jct), and extending US 666 to Monticello (later approved, then turned into US 491).
- US 48 was "reserved" for what is today's I-68 between Morgantown and Cumberland.
- Former I-281 near Syracuse became I-481.
- I-87 was relocated from today's I-684 onto the NYs Thruway (approved by Congress in the 1968 Highway Act and by FHWA in September, 1969). This is when I-684 was designated.
- I-410 around New Orleans was designated, using in part the old I-310 (later reinstated when 410 was dropped).
The extension of US 13 into SC mentioned above by Mapmikey was denied twice...in 1968 and 1969.
I'll do more of this detailed look-by-month later.
In Oct 1983 the US 9 Truck in Delaware was approved. I have seen board posts that suggest the US 19 Truck in Pittsburgh was the only Truck route ever approved by AASHTO.
Utah tried to get US 666 extended northwest twice, mostly using UT 95 and UT 24:
In June 1985 they tried for an endpoint of I-70 near Richfield
In May 1987 they tried for an endpoint of US 89 Sigurd
There are some shenanigans in the Wilmington DE area in the 1970s that require detailed reading...
Mapmikey
Quote from: froggie on August 05, 2014, 01:17:27 PM
Some others not yet mentioned, by month:
October, 1969
- Action deferred on redesignating US 164 along today's US 163 from US 160/Kayenta, AZ to today's US 191, then north along today's US 191 to I-70/Crescent Jct, UT. Similar actions at the same time were also deferred on extending US 160 west along its existing route to US 89 (at the time, it followed today's US 491 to Monticello then today's US 191 to Crescent Jct), and extending US 666 to Monticello (later approved, then turned into US 491).
So I was right in thinking that US-163 was originally planned as US-164. A N-S US-164 would have made much more sense than an out-of-place US-163, personally. </tangent>
Also, it never got past UDOT (and doesn't show up here), but San Juan County also suggested around this time that US-163 get extended west to I-15 west of Hurricane. So not only would 163 have been out of place, it may not have even have ran the right direction (which is the reason why it wound up with its number in the first place)!
I still think that 1980s plan for 163 would be a good one--provided it becomes 164.
Quote from: Mapmikey on August 05, 2014, 02:07:35 PM
Utah tried to get US 666 extended northwest twice, mostly using UT 95 and UT 24:
In June 1985 they tried for an endpoint of I-70 near Richfield
In May 1987 they tried for an endpoint of US 89 Sigurd
Mapmikey
I recall seeing both plans as well.
How many times Oklahoma attempted to get that extension of US 377 approved before giving up and signing it without official recognition?
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on August 05, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
How many times Oklahoma attempted to get that extension of US 377 approved before giving up and signing it without official recognition?
This appears at least 9 times from 1969-88.
The notes involving the I-895 concept in Wilmington were revealing.
At the June 1978 meeting, the renumbering of I-95 through Wilmington as I-595 was disapproved while the relocation of I-95 over I-495 to the east was approved.
At the October 1978 meeting, conditional approval was given to the southern portion of I-95, from DE 141 to US 202 (Concord Pike?) as I-195 and the northern portion of I-95 from US 202 north to the PA line as I-395
At the June 1979 meeting, the conditional designations of I-195 and 395 were collectively renumbered as I-895.
By the November 1980 meeting, I-895 reverting to I-95 and the restoration of I-495 were approved.
The October 1979 meeting has the request to design I-296
The May 1984 meeting includes the approval of I-195 for the Center Leg Freeway in DC and the redesignation of I-695 as I-395 along the Southeast Freeway. This change was reflected on the Downtown Washington inset on Rand McNally atlases.
Continuing my earlier breakdown:
June, 1970
- Elimination of US 164 entirely, extension of US 160 (as it exists today), extension of US 666 (now US 491) to Monticello, and creation of US 163 instead of US 164.
- Original I-105 and I-110 near downtown Los Angeles (the minutes erroneously say San Francisco) eliminated.
- Baton Rouge version of I-410 LA eliminated (odd that it happened after the New Orleans version was approved) and I-110 Baton Rouge added.
- I-420 Monroe, LA eliminated.
- Maryland I-170 and I-395 added.
- I-80 moved out of Cleveland onto the Ohio Turnpike with I-480 taking its place.
- I-79 and I-279 swap in Pittsburg, except that I-279 only follows Parkway North. I-76, which had already been on Parkway East, extended along Parkway West to today's I-79/I-376 interchange.
- I-479 Pittsburgh renumbered as I-876 (today's I-579).
- I-178 and I-378 PA eliminated.
- I-110, I-345, and parts of I-410 and I-610 TX all added, as is I-180 WY.
- Includes a list of then-existing US routes entirely within one state, ranging from US 92 FL to US 377 TX.
November, 1970
- (of note to Alex) Former US 13A Wilmington becomes mainline US 13, with old US 13 becoming BUSINESS US 13. US 202 eliminated between I-95 and I-295.
- Proposal to eliminate US 34 from its duplex with US 66 in Chicago, from Ogden Ave/Harlem Ave (today's US 34 terminus at IL 43) to Jackson Dr/Michigan Ave (Michigan Ave was US 14 at the time). Unclear of disposition as no action is mentioned in the minutes, though US 34 is shown as truncated on the 1972 IL map.
- Proposal to eliminate US 136 in Indianapolis and reroute US 36 and US 421 to the I-465 loop. Unclear of disposition as no action is mentioned in the minutes.
- Proposal to eliminate US 641 between Marion, KY and Henderson, KY. Though no action is mentioned in the minutes, was likely approved as 1970 KY map shows 641 duplexed with US 60, but 1971 KY map shows US 60 alone north(east) of Marion.
- US 57 Texas created.
- US 380 Texas eliminated from Old Glory to Cisco (replaced by TX 283 and part of TX 6) and instead routed east from Old Glory to Greenville (ending at today's I-30/TX 302 interchange).
- Action deferred on a Connecticut request to reroute US 7 onto what was then planned as a new freeway between I-84 and I-95.
- By request of the National Park Service, US 441 be "discontinued" through Great Smokey Mountains National Park. Intended purpose was to ban commercial truck traffic through the park.
June, 1971
- ALT US 30 in Illinois eliminated.
- US 54 truncated from Chicago to US 36 Pittsfield, IL.
- New York was denied eliminating US 15 between Rochester and Painted Post.
- US 104 in New York eliminated.
- Utah/Wyomin were denied a US 163 extension, as noted by Mapmikey above.
December, 1971
- Illinois initially submitted but later withdrew a request to eliminate US 150 west of Danville.
- US 213 in Maryland eliminated.
- Minnesota was denied eliminating US 61 north of Wyoming, MN (they were successful in 1990).
- US 371 in Minnesota eliminated.
- US 73 eliminated north of Winnebago, NE (had extended along today's US 75/77 to US 20).
- US 99/US 99E/US 99W eliminated north of Ashland, OR (i.e. most of Oregon).
- Oregon was denied an ALT US 101, would have used OR 42S and OR 42 from Bandon via Coquille to US 101/OR 42 south of Coos Bay.
- Both US 106 and US 611 in Pennsylvania eliminated.
- US 466 eliminated.
- I-80S OH-PA redesignated as I-76. Related changes resulted in creation of I-376, I-579, and an extended I-279 (along Parkway West) in Pittsburgh.
To go with the archive, there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._Roads/Resources/AASHTO_minutes which has a summary chart of all of the requests as well.
Interesting to note that the relocation of I-95 around Boston, the extension of I-93 to Canton, and the re-designation of the NE Expressway as US1 was approved at the June 1975 AASHTO USRN meeting, though if I remember correctly, I-95 and I-93 shields up along their new routes in the fall of 1974. Also, for a short time what became extended I-93 was designated as I-95, but it appears this was not along enough to get an application sent for approval.
Quote from: froggie on August 05, 2014, 09:54:38 PM
November, 1970
- Proposal to eliminate US 34 from its duplex with US 66 in Chicago, from Ogden Ave/Harlem Ave (today's US 34 terminus at IL 43) to Jackson Dr/Michigan Ave (Michigan Ave was US 14 at the time). Unclear of disposition as no action is mentioned in the minutes, though US 34 is shown as truncated on the 1972 IL map.
I have been wondering for years why 34 ended at a state route instead of back at La Grange Rd. Now I know.
Quote
December, 1971
- Illinois initially submitted but later withdrew a request to eliminate US 150 west of Danville.
Weird, I wonder why they would withdraw that request. It's not like 150 serves any major purpose in Illinois.
Last page of June 1985 meeting: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Why did they approve THAT?
Well, US 69 Alt isn't THAT bad, is it? :biggrin:
From June 1975 :
Relocation of US 1 onto the Northeast Expressway between Revere and Boston.
Quote from: pianocello on August 05, 2014, 11:44:19 PM
Quote from: froggie on August 05, 2014, 09:54:38 PM
November, 1970
- Proposal to eliminate US 34 from its duplex with US 66 in Chicago, from Ogden Ave/Harlem Ave (today's US 34 terminus at IL 43) to Jackson Dr/Michigan Ave (Michigan Ave was US 14 at the time). Unclear of disposition as no action is mentioned in the minutes, though US 34 is shown as truncated on the 1972 IL map.
I have been wondering for years why 34 ended at a state route instead of back at La Grange Rd. Now I know.
Quote
December, 1971
- Illinois initially submitted but later withdrew a request to eliminate US 150 west of Danville.
Weird, I wonder why they would withdraw that request. It's not like 150 serves any major purpose in Illinois.
In many ways, IDOT chose the wrong route to truncate. US-66 should've been truncated there instead of US-34 in retrospect.
As for US-150, why not just eliminate it from the state completely? Why just end it at Danville? US-150 is fairly redundant as it comes in from Indiana.
Then, I saw an approval to truncate US-136 between US-41 and Indy that was never acted upon. It was based on a proposal to truncate US-136 east of what is now I-74 (Exit 152).
From
November 1975:
QuoteI-93 Extension Approved: Beginning at the present terminus of I-93 South in Quincy, thence southwesterly overlapping State Road 128 to the intersection of I-95.
The extension of I-93 to the Braintree Split & the re-routing of I-95 onto 128 are logged in the fore-mentioned June 1975 report.
Personally, I didn't see
any I-93 shields along the Central Artery & Southeast Expressway when my family went on a summer trip to Cape Cod circa 1975. I started seeing them pop up about a year later.
Continuing on:
June, 1972
- US 91 relocated between Pocatello and Idaho Falls onto its present routing, along what had previously been US 191. Prior to this, US 91 was concurrent with I-15. This also eliminated the old BUSINESS US 91's in Blackfoot and Idaho Falls.
- US 227 in Kentucky eliminated.
- US 17 relocated onto I-95 between Ridgeland and Pocatiligo, SC.
- US 240 in Maryland/DC eliminated.
- Related to US 91 above, US 191 eliminated between Idaho Falls, ID and Brigham City, UT.
- US 30S eliminated between Burley, ID and Granger Jct, WY. US 30N between the two junctions redesignated as US 30.
- Proposed extension of US 163 to Yellowstone, mentioned above by Mapmikey was again denied.
- I-76 and I-676 swapped in Philadelphia.
- I-81E PA redesignated as I-380. I-84 also extended along the route to I-81 (I-84 had previously ended at I-81E).
November, 1972
- US 202 relocated onto its current corridor between Danbury and Avon, CT. Previously, it had used a CT 53/CT 302/US 6/CT 10 routing. (Kurumi's website (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/ct/us202.html) says this actually happened in May, 1974. AASHO approval is what took place in 1972.)
- As I noted above, Florida was denied a US Route along FL 50.
- US 64 eliminated between Taos and Santa Fe, NM and instead extended to US 550/Farmington.
- US 9 relocated from Cape May, NJ to the Cape May-Lewes Ferry terminal.
- US 30S eliminated between Delphos and Mansfield, OH, with US 30N becoming US 30.
June 1982: Illinois tries to get a business route for I-72 in Champaign. Given that I-20 got a business spur in Florence, SC, I am curious as to why I-72 couldn't have one.
November 1975: US 460 is wiped out west of the Indiana border.
November 1975: Relocation of I-35 from the east leg and current route of I-670 to I-35's present route is conditionally approved, creation of I-670 was deferred.
June 1979: Redesignating part of I-270 as I-255 in Illinois and Missouri is approved subject to FHWA concurrence.
June 1983: California replaces I-180 with I-580, everyone's favorite I-x38 is created.
June 1983: 'US 52' in Connecticut and Massachusetts is replaced with I-395
October 1983: Apparently US 73 did enter Missouri at one time, as cutting US 73 back into Kansas was approved.
December 1984: I-39 in Illinois is rejected. The "I-72 Spur" into Champaign is rejected again
May 1987: The extension of I-72 west of I-55 in Illinois is rejected - it appears in this plan I-72 would have gone up IL 336 (I-172 today) to Quincy.
May 1987: The I-64 extension to Wentzville, MO is approved.
Quote from: admtrap on August 06, 2014, 12:17:07 PM
Well, US 69 Alt isn't THAT bad, is it? :biggrin:
Alt 69 should be extended down OK 69A to OK 10 then down the Will Rogers Turnpike access road to provide a connection between I-44 and US 69 in Kansas without going through Vinita, Afton, and Miami.
November 1973: I290 in Ohio is renumbered as I-490, the eastern terminus is shifted south to I-480 at Maple Heights.
June 1974: US 66 is axed east of Joplin, Missouri.
June 1974: Changing I-57 to I-43 in Wisconsin is approved.
June 1974: Making I-244 and I-255 in Missouri part of I-270 is approved.
October 1979: I-296 in Grand Rapids, Michigan, is eliminated
October 1979: Missouri tries again for "I-44 Spur" over "former US 66 Spur" at Fort Leonard Wood and is denied again.
October 1979: Kansas wipes out US 383, Us 154, and US 156. Kansas also tries to get many alternate routes which are approved as business routes.
June 1980: US 412 is established, US 67 in Arkansas to US 70 in Tennessee.
Quote from: froggie on August 05, 2014, 09:54:38 PM
June, 1970
- Includes a list of then-existing US routes entirely within one state, ranging from US 92 FL to US 377 TX.
The table shows 212 Maryland, when they meant 213 Maryland.
These additional documents are a great find, and they leave me clamoring for copies of the applications, maps, and rationale for the various proposals shown in the minutes. I'd love to see a map of this US 163E/W split they had. And here I thought I knew most of the Wyoming US route proposals. I am still trying to find something that demonstrates that Wyoming officially requested US 187 be extended east along I-80 and then south along today's Wyo 789 into Colorado, but I've not been able to find anything other than an oil company map.
The same is true for another oil company map I found that showed US 23 heading south out of Jacksonville, Florida, cosigned with US 17. I have found no other evidence that such a southerly extension was ever requested officially by Florida.
Quote from: andy3175 on August 07, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
These additional documents are a great find, and they leave me clamoring for copies of the applications, maps, and rationale for the various proposals shown in the minutes. I'd love to see a map of this US 163E/W split they had.
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=crescent+junction+utah&daddr=41.1345469,-109.5968597+to:44.1343229,-110.6658962+to:41.7770615,-110.54023+to:E+Flaming+Gorge+Way&hl=en&ll=41.566142,-110.632324&spn=5.868432,12.689209&sll=41.523841,-109.451916&sspn=0.01147,0.024784&geocode=FVA5UgIdpVR0-SmnOXRZsIlIhzHqNxqnVYxaEg%3BFdKpcwIdRa93-SkTsythXwpQhzEY5ioCYQ1KrA%3BFbJvoQIdWF9n-SmtQSVXIj1SUzGAcxnp2KRpKA%3BFaV3fQIdOkpp-SkJrw0XFDBRhzFwHTPKg_zx0w%3BFbiaeQIdlsx5-Q&gl=us&mra=dme&mrsp=4&sz=16&via=1,2,3&t=m&z=7
Quote from: andy3175 on August 07, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
The same is true for another oil company map I found that showed US 23 heading south out of Jacksonville, Florida, cosigned with US 17. I have found no other evidence that such a southerly extension was ever requested officially by Florida.
Droz claims it was deferred in 1945 (he may have seen the original documents, or FDOT's copies): http://www.us-highways.com/us1.htm#US_23
Quote from: andy3175 on August 07, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
And here I thought I knew most of the Wyoming US route proposals. I am still trying to find something that demonstrates that Wyoming officially requested US 187 be extended east along I-80 and then south along today's Wyo 789 into Colorado, but I've not been able to find anything other than an oil company map.
Same here: http://www.us-highways.com/us1.htm#US_187
Something I noticed: the entries for the creation of US 57 and US 163 note that the number was 'suggested', probably by AASHTO.
Left off with 1972 earlier, moving on:
June, 1973
- US 82 rerouted onto its current alignment from Crossett, AR to south of Hamburg. Its old alignment was along AR 133 and AR 52.
- US 30 rerouted onto then-I-80N (today's I-84) between New Plymouth, ID and Meridian, ID (at ID 69).
- US 6 rerouted onto I-80 between US 71 and Adair, IA (at CR N54).
- US 45 rerouted onto its current alignment from MI 26 to Ontonagon, MI. It previously followed MI 26 to near Greenland then followed MI 38.
- The Dakotas were denied an extension of US 385 north to the Canadian border, as noted earlier by Mapmikey.
- Ohio received approval to eliminate ALT US 20 west of Maumee. Apparently, Ohio changed their mind and kept the route instead.
- US 285 extended from US 85 Englewood, CO east then north to US 40/287 Aurora (via Hampden Ave and Havana St).
November, 1973
- I-80N IA redesignated as I-680.
- I-69 extended from I-75 to I-475 in Flint, MI.
- I-590 NY added.
- I-490 OH redesignated as I-290, with the planned eastern terminus changed from I-271 Shaker Heights to I-480 Maple Heights.
- (to answer an earlier question of Brandon's): I-70A and I-70N redesignated in Columbus, OH. Here's how they existed: I-70N was today's I-670 between I-70 and OH 315. I-70A formed the west and north legs of the loop around downtown Columbus: OH 315 between I-70/71 and I-670, and I-670 between OH 315 and I-71. The request and approval specifically mention elimination of a portion of I-70A, which is the section that's now OH 315. It should be noted that, while the loop around downtown was completed, both old I-70N and mainline I-70 west of I-71/OH 315 were not completed yet at the time.
- I-255 TN redesignated as I-240.
- US 1 relocated between Old Lyme, CT and New London, following what had been CT 51 west of Exit 75 and ALT US 1 east of there into New London. US 1's previous routing was along I-95.
- Elimination of a SPUR US 36 into Macon, MO.
- Oklahoma was denied eliminating BUSINESS US 271 in Hugo.
- Vermont received approval to sign the Bennington Bypass as US 7 and designate existing US 7 through Bennington as a BUSINESS route. Of course, VTrans has yet to finish the rest of the Bennington Bypass.
June, 1974
- AASHTO approved eliminating US 15 north of Painted Post, NY (had been denied 3 years prior in 1971).
- US 97 rerouted north of Ellensburg, WA along what had previously been WA 131, replacing what had been a longer concurrency with I-90 to Cle Elum then backtracking along today's WA 970.
- US 91 eliminated from Baker, CA to Brigham City, UT....suggesting that there was more than one round of US 91 removal in California.
- US 67 rerouted onto Lindbergh Blvd around St. Louis, MO. Former routing includes MO 21, MO 30, Kingshighway, and MO 367.
- US 159 rerouted onto its present alignment between MO 111 and US 59. Former routing followed MO 111 north of US 159 to US 59 at Craig. An earlier attempt to reroute US 159 to I-29/Exit 79 had failed, presumably because I-29 had not been built yet.
- North/South Dakota were again denied in their request to replace US 85 north of Leads, SD with a US 385 extension.
- (of note for Alex) US 113 and ALT US 113 in Dover, DE truncated from Dupont Hwy/State St to Dupont Hwy/Bay Rd. The mainline 113 truncation may have happened sooner...DelDOT maps took it off the Dover inset sometime between 1961 and 1966, although maps in the 1966-1973 timeframe still had ALT US 113 continuing up State St to US 13/Dupont Hwy.
- US 50 rerouted out of St. Louis, using IL 3, the Jefferson Barracks Bridge, and Lindbergh Blvd to I-44. BYPASS US 50, which used a similar alignment but also bypassed East St. Louis via IL 157, was eliminated.
- US 66 eliminated east of Joplin, MO.
- IN/MI requested but were denied eliminating US 27 north of Fort Wayne, IN (something they'd later be successful on).
- I-57 WI redesignated as I-43.
- I-80S CO/NE redesignated as I-76.
- I-244 MO redesignated as I-270. Redesignation of I-255 around St. Louis as I-270 was approved, but apparently never happened.
- Conditional approval for "I-53" as a "Future Interstate Route" from I-55 Lincoln, IL to I-80 near Princeton, IL, as mentioned earlier by Mapmikey.
- US 9 extended across the Cape May-Lewes Ferry, then southwest to US 13.
November, 1974
- US 27 reroute in Fort Wayne, IN, along its current routing to I-69. Previous routing was along Coldwater Rd. Indiana had previously requested but was denied this.
- ALT US 1's in Wake Forest and Franklinton, NC approved.
- US 36 eliminated between Uhrichsville, OH and Cadiz, leaving just US 250.
- I-635 TX extension west of I-35E to TX 121 conditionally approved.
Quote from: froggie on August 07, 2014, 02:16:43 PM
- IN/MI requested but were denied eliminating US 27 north of Fort Wayne, IN (something they'd later be successful on).
What was going to be the number of the US 27 expressway/freeway in Michigan? The notes don't mention a number.
Quote from: froggie on August 05, 2014, 09:54:38 PM
- US 57 Texas created.
I wonder if there were any TEXAS US 57 cutouts. I have heard Texas stopped using cutouts in 1969, but I've seen one stamped 1972 that must've been a straggler. old stock that was put into service. I wonder if they ever found an old stock shield with no number and slapped a 57 on it.
Quote from: froggie on August 05, 2014, 09:54:38 PMUS 106
I have never seen a US-106 shield.
I had for some reason had it in my mind that it was one of those very early routes that was gone by the 30s.
Quote from: froggie on August 06, 2014, 08:30:53 PM
- I-81E PA redesignated as I-380. I-84 also extended along the route to I-81 (I-84 had previously ended at I-81E).
when was this signed in the field? for some reason I remember in the late 1980s noticing that the way to get from New England to DC (without using a long swath of I-95) was to take 84, to 380, to 81, to 83. this as opposed to 84 directly to 81.
Quote from: bugo on August 07, 2014, 02:21:34 PM
Quote from: froggie on August 07, 2014, 02:16:43 PM
- IN/MI requested but were denied eliminating US 27 north of Fort Wayne, IN (something they'd later be successful on).
What was going to be the number of the US 27 expressway/freeway in Michigan? The notes don't mention a number.
My best guess is that US-127 would've been extended as it is now. The US-127 freeway in Lansing existed at this time and ended at US-27 (Exit 87 on current I-69). A state route (M-xx) just does not make sense, IMHO.
Quote from: froggie on August 07, 2014, 02:16:43 PM
June, 1974
- I-57 WI redesignated as I-43.
- Conditional approval for "I-53" as a "Future Interstate Route" from I-55 Lincoln, IL to I-80 near Princeton, IL, as mentioned earlier by Mapmikey.
1. I-57 does make a better number for the corridor. Did Wisconsin run into problems with Illinois again? They did with I-43 possibly being extended south over what is now I-39, and later on with I-55 being extended north to Green Bay.
2. Had I-53 come to pass, I sincerely doubt I-39 would've been built between Bloomington and I-80. The big question is, how would this have gone north from the current end of I-180 toward Rockford? My best guess, is that it would've gone toward Dixon and then along the Rock River to Rockford. This placement might have made a divided highway or freeway facility feasible along the IL-23 corridor (Pontiac - Streator - Ottawa - DeKalb - Belvidere). And it appears IDOT had dreams of doing so. There is a stretch of divided highway along IL-23 for about 4-5 miles north of Streator.
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 06, 2014, 05:52:36 PM
From November 1975:
QuoteI-93 Extension Approved: Beginning at the present terminus of I-93 South in Quincy, thence southwesterly overlapping State Road 128 to the intersection of I-95.
The extension of I-93 to the Braintree Split & the re-routing of I-95 onto 128 are logged in the fore-mentioned June 1975 report.
That November 1975 entry was to correct an error AASHTO made in the June 1975 approvals. MassDPW's 1975 changes, and FHWA's subsequent concurrences, always indicated that I-93 would be extended to I-95 in Canton, and not just to the Braintree split (I have copies of the original documents that verify this).
Quote from: Brandon on August 07, 2014, 02:51:58 PM
Quote from: froggie on August 07, 2014, 02:16:43 PM
June, 1974
- I-57 WI redesignated as I-43.
- Conditional approval for "I-53" as a "Future Interstate Route" from I-55 Lincoln, IL to I-80 near Princeton, IL, as mentioned earlier by Mapmikey.
1. I-57 does make a better number for the corridor. Did Wisconsin run into problems with Illinois again? They did with I-43 possibly being extended south over what is now I-39, and later on with I-55 being extended north to Green Bay.
Yes. IDOT did not want to sign I-57 north of its northern terminus.
Quote2. Had I-53 come to pass, I sincerely doubt I-39 would've been built between Bloomington and I-80. The big question is, how would this have gone north from the current end of I-180 toward Rockford? My best guess, is that it would've gone toward Dixon and then along the Rock River to Rockford. This placement might have made a divided highway or freeway facility feasible along the IL-23 corridor (Pontiac - Streator - Ottawa - DeKalb - Belvidere). And it appears IDOT had dreams of doing so. There is a stretch of divided highway along IL-23 for about 4-5 miles north of Streator.
Info in the Illinois Freeway Research thread seems to suggest that both freeway corridors were still proposed between I-74 and I-80.
Rick Powell also commented in that thread that the IL 23 corridor was considered at one time for what became I-39.
I-86 in CT being returned to I-84 sometime in the 80's. Then of course I-84 becoming I-384 east of the former I-86 junction that never tied in until later anyway.
Quote from: roadman65 on August 07, 2014, 05:51:03 PM
I-86 in CT being returned to I-84 sometime in the 80's. Then of course I-84 becoming I-384 east of the former I-86 junction that never tied in until later anyway.
was there ever a RHODE ISLAND I-84 shield posted? even as part of some FUTURE corridor? I know there were NEW YORK I-78 shields for a while in Queens.
Quote from: NE2 on August 07, 2014, 02:57:59 AM
Quote from: andy3175 on August 07, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
These additional documents are a great find, and they leave me clamoring for copies of the applications, maps, and rationale for the various proposals shown in the minutes. I'd love to see a map of this US 163E/W split they had.
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=crescent+junction+utah&daddr=41.1345469,-109.5968597+to:44.1343229,-110.6658962+to:41.7770615,-110.54023+to:E+Flaming+Gorge+Way&hl=en&ll=41.566142,-110.632324&spn=5.868432,12.689209&sll=41.523841,-109.451916&sspn=0.01147,0.024784&geocode=FVA5UgIdpVR0-SmnOXRZsIlIhzHqNxqnVYxaEg%3BFdKpcwIdRa93-SkTsythXwpQhzEY5ioCYQ1KrA%3BFbJvoQIdWF9n-SmtQSVXIj1SUzGAcxnp2KRpKA%3BFaV3fQIdOkpp-SkJrw0XFDBRhzFwHTPKg_zx0w%3BFbiaeQIdlsx5-Q&gl=us&mra=dme&mrsp=4&sz=16&via=1,2,3&t=m&z=7
Quote from: andy3175 on August 07, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
The same is true for another oil company map I found that showed US 23 heading south out of Jacksonville, Florida, cosigned with US 17. I have found no other evidence that such a southerly extension was ever requested officially by Florida.
Droz claims it was deferred in 1945 (he may have seen the original documents, or FDOT's copies): http://www.us-highways.com/us1.htm#US_23
Quote from: andy3175 on August 07, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
And here I thought I knew most of the Wyoming US route proposals. I am still trying to find something that demonstrates that Wyoming officially requested US 187 be extended east along I-80 and then south along today's Wyo 789 into Colorado, but I've not been able to find anything other than an oil company map.
Same here: http://www.us-highways.com/us1.htm#US_187
Something I noticed: the entries for the creation of US 57 and US 163 note that the number was 'suggested', probably by AASHTO.
In that vein, while I'm not sure such a plan hapened during the 1967-1987 range, but us-highways.com also mentioned that US-160 was planned to go to California. (http://www.us-highways.com/us2.htm#US_160) A California US-160 extension is mentioned twice, leading me to wonder if it may have been planned to go to Long Beach via Bishop (eventually picked up by US-6) in 1937, then maybe considered again in 1970 (???) with its reroute to Tuba City AZ.
is there any explanation of the numbering rationale?
is the 400 series actually "octant-based", or is that just a roadgeek retcon? i.e. after 400, 412, 425, is the pattern defined by law to be 437, 462, 475, 487?
... 500?
also, why the rationale of 163 over 164? familiarity? I'm glad the extension was shot down and replaced with the far more sensibly-numbered 191.
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 06, 2014, 10:07:56 PM
October 1979: Kansas wipes out US 383, Us 154, and US 156. Kansas also tries to get many alternate routes which are approved as business routes.
Much of these approved changes were not implemented until 1981.
Also, the State Highway Commission had implemented many of these bannered US routes withouth seeking AASHTO approval (US 169B, for instance, goes back to 1936).
My guess is when the SHC became KDOT, there was a review of all of the US routes and found that there were several routes not in compliance with then-current AASHTO regulations. As 154, 156, and 383 were for all intents and purposes intrastate highways (strictly speaking, US 383 did enter Nebraska), KDOT elected to re-designated them as K-numbered routes.
Quote
was there ever a RHODE ISLAND I-84 shield posted? even as part of some FUTURE corridor? I know there were NEW YORK I-78 shields for a while in Queens.
Not that I am aware of. The one part that was built, today's US-6 freeway, was originally signed as RI-195 until the early 1990s when 6 was moved from the surface road onto the highway.
Quote from: NE2 on August 07, 2014, 02:57:59 AM
Quote from: andy3175 on August 07, 2014, 01:45:17 AM
These additional documents are a great find, and they leave me clamoring for copies of the applications, maps, and rationale for the various proposals shown in the minutes. I'd love to see a map of this US 163E/W split they had.
http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=crescent+junction+utah&daddr=41.1345469,-109.5968597+to:44.1343229,-110.6658962+to:41.7770615,-110.54023+to:E+Flaming+Gorge+Way&hl=en&ll=41.566142,-110.632324&spn=5.868432,12.689209&sll=41.523841,-109.451916&sspn=0.01147,0.024784&geocode=FVA5UgIdpVR0-SmnOXRZsIlIhzHqNxqnVYxaEg%3BFdKpcwIdRa93-SkTsythXwpQhzEY5ioCYQ1KrA%3BFbJvoQIdWF9n-SmtQSVXIj1SUzGAcxnp2KRpKA%3BFaV3fQIdOkpp-SkJrw0XFDBRhzFwHTPKg_zx0w%3BFbiaeQIdlsx5-Q&gl=us&mra=dme&mrsp=4&sz=16&via=1,2,3&t=m&z=7
US 163W would have been a circuitous route going all the way west to Kemmerer. They could have used Wyo 240 to cut some of the distance, but it would still not be a direct route. I wonder why they preferred to have US 163 use the Wyo 530 side of Flaming Gorge. Maybe the dam was not traverse-able as it is today? I believe there was a disconnection between former Wyo 373 and former Utah 260 (both now current US 191) and old Utah 43 south of the dam. I think the current US 191 alignment staying east of Flaming Gorge makes sense given the existing road network, but it's possible the planners at the time were considering still non-existent, more direct route to Jackson that could have been achieved if a highway were built alongside the west side of the Green River from the dam north to Big Piney and Bondurant. That alignment would not be possible today, especially with Seedskadee Natl Wildlife Refuge along the route, but it would be interesting to know the planners' thought process.
June 1969 - I-491 in Hartford and I-84 Manchester to Sturbridge redesignated as I-86. I-84 designated Hartford to Providence.
May 1983 - CT and MA Routes 52 New London to Auburn (note: incorrectly identified in the minutes as US 52) re-designated as I-395.
October 1983 - I-84 designation eliminated in Rhode Island.
May 1984 - I-86 East Hartford to Sturbridge re-designated as I-84, I-84 East Hartford to Holden Notch re-designated as I-384.
I'm still a bit puzzled by I-70A in Columbus. To me it would have made more sense as I-71A, as it connected to I-71 at the southwest and northeast corners of the Innerbelt. Might this be a clerical error of some sort?
Quote from: andy3175 on August 08, 2014, 12:19:29 AM
I think the current US 191 alignment staying east of Flaming Gorge makes sense given the existing road network, but it's possible the planners at the time were considering still non-existent, more direct route to Jackson that could have been achieved if a highway were built alongside the west side of the Green River from the dam north to Big Piney and Bondurant. That alignment would not be possible today, especially with Seedskadee Natl Wildlife Refuge along the route, but it would be interesting to know the planners' thought process.
Isn't this WYO 372?
Quote from: vtk on August 08, 2014, 09:39:57 PM
I'm still a bit puzzled by I-70A in Columbus. To me it would have made more sense as I-71A, as it connected to I-71 at the southwest and northeast corners of the Innerbelt. Might this be a clerical error of some sort?
I think this is what was done: http://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zJ6tKQcwi70c.kAu5RW1YhumM
70A was the entire Innerbelt except the south side. But originally I-70 was on the west and south sides, and I-70A was on the north and east (see original plans (http://www.roadfan.com/maps-plans.html), but note that in 1957 all four sides were 70 and 71). Some time in the 1960s, I-70 between Valleyview and the southwest corner was added to the Interstate system, and the bypassed section west of the Innerbelt became I-70N. I-71 was apparently not defined on any of the Innerbelt until 1973.
Quote from: Rover_0 on August 07, 2014, 07:32:55 PM
In that vein, while I'm not sure such a plan hapened during the 1967-1987 range, but us-highways.com also mentioned that US-160 was planned to go to California. (http://www.us-highways.com/us2.htm#US_160) A California US-160 extension is mentioned twice, leading me to wonder if it may have been planned to go to Long Beach via Bishop (eventually picked up by US-6) in 1937, then maybe considered again in 1970 (???) with its reroute to Tuba City AZ.
I was living in New Mexico when the terminus of U.S. 64 at Santa Fe was eliminated and the route was extended from Taos to Farmington using a new highway over the San Juan Mountains. At that time there was "talk" that the highway would eventually be extended west to California (route not specified). As U.S. 64 now ends at U.S. 160 just inside Arizona, this would be the same extension with a different name.
This borders on the fantasy highway forum, but why not extend US 64 along US 160 and US 89, then replacing AZ 64 to end at I-40 on the west end of Williams. If this were to happen, US 160 could technically be decommissioned along the US 64 plex but I don't see any reason to do so.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on August 09, 2014, 10:14:00 AM
Quote from: Rover_0 on August 07, 2014, 07:32:55 PM
In that vein, while I'm not sure such a plan hapened during the 1967-1987 range, but us-highways.com also mentioned that US-160 was planned to go to California. (http://www.us-highways.com/us2.htm#US_160) A California US-160 extension is mentioned twice, leading me to wonder if it may have been planned to go to Long Beach via Bishop (eventually picked up by US-6) in 1937, then maybe considered again in 1970 (???) with its reroute to Tuba City AZ.
I was living in New Mexico when the terminus of U.S. 64 at Santa Fe was eliminated and the route was extended from Taos to Farmington using a new highway over the San Juan Mountains. At that time there was "talk" that the highway would eventually be extended west to California (route not specified). As U.S. 64 now ends at U.S. 160 just inside Arizona, this would be the same extension with a different name.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3762/9637109587_342ff18e0e_h.jpg)
:awesomeface:
Quote from: bugo on August 09, 2014, 10:23:56 AM
This borders on the fantasy highway forum, but why not extend US 64 along US 160 and US 89, then replacing AZ 64 to end at I-40 on the west end of Williams. If this were to happen, US 160 could technically be decommissioned along the US 64 plex but I don't see any reason to do so.
If you send US-64 to Williams, why not send 160
back into Utah--this time to I-15 west of Hurricane--or at least to Page?
That's the next big question: Where could've US-160 (or US-64) actually have gone?* I know I've seen some Arizona documents^ that mention efforts (sometime between 1959 and 1964) that were to extend US-64 to US-89 near Tuba City.
*EDIT: I'm thinking US-160/(US-89)/AZ-64/(I-40)/AZ-68/NV-163/(US-95)/NV-164/Nipton Rd to I-15, then maybe along CA-58/(US-101)/CA-41 to Morrow Bay.
^Arizona highway resolutions from this now-nonfunctioning site (http://azhighwaydata.com/) (even on Internet Explorer), which is also where I got that 164 was being the original proposed number for US-163.
Quote from: NE2 on August 09, 2014, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: andy3175 on August 08, 2014, 12:19:29 AM
I think the current US 191 alignment staying east of Flaming Gorge makes sense given the existing road network, but it's possible the planners at the time were considering still non-existent, more direct route to Jackson that could have been achieved if a highway were built alongside the west side of the Green River from the dam north to Big Piney and Bondurant. That alignment would not be possible today, especially with Seedskadee Natl Wildlife Refuge along the route, but it would be interesting to know the planners' thought process.
Isn't this WYO 372?
Yes, the proposal map does show Wyo 372. But I was thinking that a new route, one that hugged more closely to the Green River, would have to be built to make a more direct north-south route without having to travel nearly to Kemmerer. Wyo 240 sort of does this, but in my mind there would need to be even more mileage cut off to make the western alignment work as a viable alternative to the eastern alignment in terms of mileage and directness.
Quote from: andy3175 on August 14, 2014, 12:56:16 AM
Quote from: NE2 on August 09, 2014, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: andy3175 on August 08, 2014, 12:19:29 AM
I think the current US 191 alignment staying east of Flaming Gorge makes sense given the existing road network, but it's possible the planners at the time were considering still non-existent, more direct route to Jackson that could have been achieved if a highway were built alongside the west side of the Green River from the dam north to Big Piney and Bondurant. That alignment would not be possible today, especially with Seedskadee Natl Wildlife Refuge along the route, but it would be interesting to know the planners' thought process.
Isn't this WYO 372?
Yes, the proposal map does show Wyo 372. But I was thinking that a new route, one that hugged more closely to the Green River, would have to be built to make a more direct north-south route without having to travel nearly to Kemmerer. Wyo 240 sort of does this, but in my mind there would need to be even more mileage cut off to make the western alignment work as a viable alternative to the eastern alignment in terms of mileage and directness.
372 is 16 miles shorter than 240...
Quote from: Beeper1 on August 07, 2014, 10:22:50 PM
Quote
was there ever a RHODE ISLAND I-84 shield posted? even as part of some FUTURE corridor? I know there were NEW YORK I-78 shields for a while in Queens.
Not that I am aware of. The one part that was built, today's US-6 freeway, was originally signed as RI-195 until the early 1990s when 6 was moved from the surface road onto the highway.
Those RI-195 signs, at ones used for trailblazers had I-shield outlines & borders in black and
RHODE ISLAND lettering (also in black) where the word
INTERSTATE typically goes.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F1%2F11%2FRI_195_special.svg%2F300px-RI_195_special.svg.png&hash=2bebc88f65eede1ffc0946a3d4ff56032ffd0bc8)
The US 13 extension is odd because it would have ended at a state route, SC 28. It could have been extended to Athens, GA but I am guessing that Georgia didn't want anything to do with it.
Quote- (to answer an earlier question of Brandon's): I-70A and I-70N redesignated in Columbus, OH. Here's how they existed: I-70N was today's I-670 between I-70 and OH 315. I-70A formed the west and north legs of the loop around downtown Columbus: OH 315 between I-70/71 and I-670, and I-670 between OH 315 and I-71. The request and approval specifically mention elimination of a portion of I-70A, which is the section that's now OH 315. It should be noted that, while the loop around downtown was completed, both old I-70N and mainline I-70 west of I-71/OH 315 were not completed yet at the time.
Quote from: NE2 on August 09, 2014, 02:05:47 AM
Quote from: vtk on August 08, 2014, 09:39:57 PM
I'm still a bit puzzled by I-70A in Columbus. To me it would have made more sense as I-71A, as it connected to I-71 at the southwest and northeast corners of the Innerbelt. Might this be a clerical error of some sort?
I think this is what was done: http://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zJ6tKQcwi70c.kAu5RW1YhumM
70A was the entire Innerbelt except the south side. But originally I-70 was on the west and south sides, and I-70A was on the north and east (see original plans (http://www.roadfan.com/maps-plans.html), but note that in 1957 all four sides were 70 and 71). Some time in the 1960s, I-70 between Valleyview and the southwest corner was added to the Interstate system, and the bypassed section west of the Innerbelt became I-70N. I-71 was apparently not defined on any of the Innerbelt until 1973.
No! No! No! No!
The original numeral plan for Columbus was...
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2Fcbus57.jpg&hash=59def2c881a797ddb1c9a153721d527f7d213368)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.roadfan.com%2F62ohcol.jpg&hash=a7641c0e166591531d8b4b9a2bbad10cf816ac2c)
By the late 60s/early 70s City of Columbus & ODOT realized that having I-70 go into the Spring-Sandusky interchange was not going to work, and I-70 west was rerouted from Harper Rd south to Mound Street and enter the Columbus innerbelt that way.
Work was prioritized to complete I-70 west from 270 west to the (newly) revamped Mound-Sandusky interchange (aka I-70-71 west split) and was completed in 1976.
There were no I-70A or I-70N shields in Columbus/Franklin County because these were only paper designations while the roads got built.
By 1976, I-71 was confined to the current corridor (previously was signed on all 4 sides of the innerbelt), 315 was extended south to the west split (as Columbus was getting the Olentangy Expressway completed) and I-670 was designated along the northern part of the innerbelt (in conjunction with (then) new plans to get a direct route from downtown Columbus to Port Columbus Airport)