Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
amen. I don't understand why this isn't standardized. I almost refused to buy the car my wife wanted because the gas filler is on the "wrong" side.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
Wow, I didn't know this was a thing. All the cars I've driven have the tank on the driver-side door.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
I don't necessarily know if that's a bad thing. I have one car (an RX-7) with the gas cap on the passenger side. At crowded stations it often means I get to the pump more quickly because some people don't want to approach from the other direction or don't want to do a three-point turn to back up to the pump, so I just go around them and pull up to a right-side pump.
My first car (a 1977 Ford Granada) had the gas cap in the center of the rear below the trunk lid, so it didn't matter which side the pump was on.
Quote from: Zeffy on September 24, 2014, 02:35:30 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
Wow, I didn't know this was a thing. All the cars I've driven have the tank on the driver-side door.
It's a big deal in New Jersey with their stupid full-service law. I've seen signs at some stations up there saying they'll refuse service if you pull up to the pump and your gas cap is on the wrong side. Makes me wonder how many people pull up to the wrong side. I've always been surprised at how many people don't even know their own license-plate numbers, so I assume some people must be unable to remember which side their gas caps are on.
Some cars from the '70s had the gas tank access literally behind the rear license plate, which was on a spring-loaded hinge.
Many of today's cars have a little arrow (more of a triangle than a true arrow) on the fuel gauge pointing to the side where you pump.
how do vehicle designers decide where to put the gas cap? it seems fairly arbitrary. at one point I thought that "Japanese on the left, all others on the right" was a rule with some consistency, but my Toyota truck has it on the right, a Chevy I rented not too long ago had it on the left...
Quote from: lepidopteran on September 24, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
Some cars from the '70s had the gas tank access literally behind the rear license plate, which was on a spring-loaded hinge.
.....
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 24, 2014, 03:09:59 PMIt's a big deal in New Jersey with their stupid full-service law. I've seen signs at some stations up there saying they'll refuse service if you pull up to the pump and your gas cap is on the wrong side. Makes me wonder how many people pull up to the wrong side. I've always been surprised at how many people don't even know their own license-plate numbers, so I assume some people must be unable to remember which side their gas caps are on.
I know that the Sunoco stations along the NJ Turnpike & GSP (the service plaza ones) all have signs saying that the pump's hoses are long enough to accomodate both sides of a parked vehicle.
However, that didn't stop one meathead of an attendant at the Montvale Plaza along the GSP a year ago to tell me to park at the other side of the pump
despite the clearly visable posted sign saying the hoses are long enough to accomodate such. I pointed to the signs and he said that such has changed and the signs will be taken down.
After I got my car fueled up, I parked in the lot and walked into the station to see the manager/supervisor to verify such. It turns out, that wasn't the case and the attendant was dead wrong and shouldn't have told me to move to the other side of the pumps.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
Agreed. Most gas stations would have smoother traffic if one didn't have to worry about someone coming from the opposite direction at their chosen pump.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 24, 2014, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
I don't necessarily know if that's a bad thing. I have one car (an RX-7) with the gas cap on the passenger side. At crowded stations it often means I get to the pump more quickly because some people don't want to approach from the other direction or don't want to do a three-point turn to back up to the pump, so I just go around them and pull up to a right-side pump.
Not to get too far OT, but this. You double the throughput of a gas station by having 50% on the right and 50% on the left. Matters less at your neighborhood station, but matters a lot on a freeway rest area where everyone has to point the same way.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 24, 2014, 03:09:59 PM
It's a big deal in New Jersey with their stupid full-service law. I'vie seen signs at some stations up there saying they'll refuse service if you pull up to the pump and your gas cap is on the wrong side. Makes me wonder how many people pull up to the wrong side. I've always been surprised at how many people don't even know their own license-plate numbers, so I assume some people must be unable to remember which side their gas caps are on.
I fuel up about twice a week. I need to know my license plate number about never.
Quote from: lepidopteran on September 24, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
Some cars from the '70s had the gas tank access literally behind the rear license plate, which was on a spring-loaded hinge.
Yep, my '79 Olds Cutlass did.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
Manufacturers don't even keep consistency with their different models. I have a 2013 Altima and the cap's on the left. My mom has a 2013 Sentra and the cap's on the right. Go figure.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 24, 2014, 04:01:44 PM
how do vehicle designers decide where to put the gas cap? it seems fairly arbitrary. at one point I thought that "Japanese on the left, all others on the right" was a rule with some consistency, but my Toyota truck has it on the right, a Chevy I rented not too long ago had it on the left...
Probably the same people who design the door locks on all vehicles as some models have you turn the key clockwise to unlock the door, while others have you turn it counterclockwise to open it.
What really sucks is the fact many gas stations will not make the hoses long enough to reach. At least Costco Wholesale club in Orlando has it now long enough so you can pull up either side of the pump. If only all stations though that way there would be no problem with this.
It was always my understanding that manufacturers aimed for A 50-50 split for precisely the reason of making gas stations function better.
The only gas station I around here with frequent lines (a Stop & Shop where frequent customers get big gas discounts) has a sign declaring "hoses no longer reach both sides of vehicle." i would be it takes a pretty damn long hose to reach around all vehicles, and if you waited on a long line and it didn't reach around yours, I can see a fight brewing over who's going to let you switch to the pump on the other side.
What I find could lead to a fight is you find a full gas station with one open pump on your side. You move to it and someone else comes in from the other side and takes your pump. That happens at Sam's Club a lot. They are always crowded because of their cheap prices of the day, and the way the pumps are aligned there is no "one way" road passing in or out like at Costco who has one entrance in and one out.
I know its first come first serve, but some people can and will be anal about it. Having the long hose would be the best option at least at wholesale clubs or at least one way driveways with enforcement. The Sams in Kissimmee, FL has one way driveways in and out, but I have seen plenty times where someone pulls in the wrong way and of course the station attendant does nothing to stop them just as cashiers in supermarkets do nothing about people ignoring the 10 item or less sign at the check out.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on September 24, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
Some cars from the '70s had the gas tank access literally behind the rear license plate, which was on a spring-loaded hinge.
Yep, my '79 Olds Cutlass did.
GM continued with that spring-loaded hinge design through 1996 on its full-size RWD sedans (Caprice/Impala SS, Roadmaster & Fleetwood).
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 25, 2014, 07:37:53 AM
It was always my understanding that manufacturers aimed for A 50-50 split for precisely the reason of making gas stations function better.
It's only an issue at gas stations that are one-way, a distinct minority. IMO, I don't like having to take the physical effort to move the hose to the other side (it's not weightless, and the hoses are already awkward enough when you're not walking to the other side of the car; plus, I like to take the gas cap off while I'm starting my transaction and put it on again while I'm finishing it; this is impossible if it's not on the same side).
Quote from: vdeane on September 25, 2014, 12:49:40 PMIMO, I don't like having to take the physical effort to move the hose to the other side (it's not weightless, and the hoses are already awkward enough when you're not walking to the other side of the car; plus, I like to take the gas cap off while I'm starting my transaction and put it on again while I'm finishing it; this is impossible if it's not on the same side).
:confused: Not sure what you mean by
transaction.
I would think that it's rather obvious that one always has to take the gas cap off prior to refueling and place it back on when completed...
regardless of which side of the vehicle one's gas cap is located.
I think I'm missing something in your post.
A transaction is an exchange of money for goods/services. In the case of when I refuel, it looks like this:
-pull up in front of gas pump
-insert/remove credit card
-while waiting for the card to process, remove the gas cap; may have to enter credit/debit (usually not zip, but sometimes; sometimes get asked if I want a receipt but not usually)
-push the button for the fuel type; wait some more and be thankful if the weather isn't too bad
-insert fuel nozzle into car
-actually pump the gas
-put fuel nozzle back
-put gas cap back on while waiting for the pump to say either complete or ask if I want a receipt
As you can see, I do some tasks concurrently. This would not be possible if the gas pump were on the other side of the car as the gas access, and refueling would take even longer, and there would be more waiting, as every step has a 5-10 second waiting period where I'm ready for the next step but the pump is not.
This dynamic might be different if someone pays cash for gas, but I never do.
Quote from: vdeane on September 25, 2014, 01:46:13 PM
A transaction is an exchange of money for goods/services. In the case of when I refuel, it looks like this:
-pull up in front of gas pump
-insert/remove credit card
-while waiting for the card to process, remove the gas cap; may have to enter credit/debit (usually not zip, but sometimes; sometimes get asked if I want a receipt but not usually)
-push the button for the fuel type; wait some more and be thankful if the weather isn't too bad
-insert fuel nozzle into car
-actually pump the gas
-put fuel nozzle back
-put gas cap back on while waiting for the pump to say either complete or ask if I want a receipt
As you can see, I do some tasks concurrently. This would not be possible if the gas pump were on the other side of the car as the gas access, and refueling would take even longer, and there would be more waiting, as every step has a 5-10 second waiting period where I'm ready for the next step but the pump is not.
I'm still not seeing how having the gas cap on the opposite side would impact the above and I've been refueling my vehicles longer than you've been alive.
If one
knows which side their gas cap's on from the get-go (I know you've had the same car for several years); one would simply
pull up to the pump in a way so that their gas cap is next to it and thereby eliminate any stretching of the pump hose to the other side of the car as well as walking back-and-forth to/from the driver's side door
more than twice.
I still don't see what the big deal is if one follows the above.
PHLBOS & vdeane, as an NJ resident I don't understand any of this discussion. I just lower my window and tell the attendant to fill it up. If it was raining or cold, I would raise the window while the fueling takes place. When finished I would pay the attendant in cash.
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 25, 2014, 02:13:02 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 25, 2014, 01:46:13 PM
A transaction is an exchange of money for goods/services. In the case of when I refuel, it looks like this:
-pull up in front of gas pump
-insert/remove credit card
-while waiting for the card to process, remove the gas cap; may have to enter credit/debit (usually not zip, but sometimes; sometimes get asked if I want a receipt but not usually)
-push the button for the fuel type; wait some more and be thankful if the weather isn't too bad
-insert fuel nozzle into car
-actually pump the gas
-put fuel nozzle back
-put gas cap back on while waiting for the pump to say either complete or ask if I want a receipt
As you can see, I do some tasks concurrently. This would not be possible if the gas pump were on the other side of the car as the gas access, and refueling would take even longer, and there would be more waiting, as every step has a 5-10 second waiting period where I'm ready for the next step but the pump is not.
I'm still not seeing how having the gas cap on the opposite side would impact the above and I've been refueling my vehicles longer than you've been alive.
If one knows which side their gas cap's on from the get-go (I know you've had the same car for several years); one would simply pull up to the pump in a way so that their gas cap is next to it and thereby eliminate any stretching of the pump hose to the other side of the car as well as walking back-and-forth to/from the driver's side door more than twice.
I still don't see what the big deal is if one follows the above.
I think you're misunderstanding my posts. I'm talking about issues with
having the gas pump be on the opposite side of the car as the gas cap. I would do away with the split not because of not knowing where it is, but because I'm sick and tired of people with the gas cap on the "wrong" side beating me to the last available gas pump on the "correct" side from my direction. If that were to occur, I would then either have to wait, or have the gas cap and the pump on opposite sides (which does introduce the problems I mentioned).
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 25, 2014, 06:37:23 PM
PHLBOS & vdeane, as an NJ resident I don't understand any of this discussion. I just lower my window and tell the attendant to fill it up. If it was raining or cold, I would raise the window while the fueling takes place. When finished I would pay the attendant in cash.
And as a NY resident, I don't understand why one would pay cash (in fact, I don't
ever use cash if I can avoid it) as those infernal cash/credit price splits are rare here (until recently, they were even illegal).
I am also confused.
In most non-directional gas stations, it's a free-for-all. Some come from one way, some from others. Some pull up on the right, some on the left. Almost no one pulls up on the side their gas cap isn't. And it pretty much works out
In the days before the hanging-from-above vapor-recovery hoses, in fact, I don't recall anyone doing this at all.
To bring this back on topic, can you imagine the even longer lines at the Turnpike gas stations if gas caps were all on the same side?
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 25, 2014, 06:37:23 PM
PHLBOS & vdeane, as an NJ resident I don't understand any of this discussion. I just lower my window and tell the attendant to fill it up. If it was raining or cold, I would raise the window while the fueling takes place. When finished I would pay the attendant in cash.
Heehee...I was thinking a smartass comment as well, but left it alone. After all, it's magical in NJ: You tell someone you want the tank filled up, and it happens! :-)
Quote from: vdeane on September 25, 2014, 06:51:46 PM
And as a NY resident, I don't understand why one would pay cash (in fact, I don't ever use cash if I can avoid it) as those infernal cash/credit price splits are rare here (until recently, they were even illegal).
Some people truly don't have a credit card! For some, it's because they maxed it out, or don't want one, but there are those people out there without it. I'll see this issue on occasion on travel forums I visit, as when they make their reservations the hotel usually wants a credit card for a deposit (they'll take cash deposits as well). Like you though, I'm almost always paying with credit.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 25, 2014, 06:57:38 PM
To bring this back on topic, can you imagine the even longer lines at the Turnpike gas stations if gas caps were all on the same side?
Since the overwhelming majority of gas caps are on the left, you will see long lines on the right side of the pumps. For those with gas caps on the left, they can usually pull right up to an open pump. Even though the signs state the hoses are long and you can go to either side, I've never seen the attendants encourage drivers to go to an open, opposite side pump.
My daughter had a 2002 Mitsubishi Eclipse with gas on passenger side. Most of the gas stations around her would form lines from both directions to accommodate the majority with the gas on the driver side. There were a few times no one would let her get "in-line" to get to a pump because the lines were full of cars with gas caps on the left and no one understood or cared why she was trying to queue from the other direction. She had to make a point to buy gas on weekdays at off-peak hours.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 25, 2014, 06:57:38 PMIn most non-directional gas stations, it's a free-for-all. Some come from one way, some from others. Some pull up on the right, some on the left. Almost no one pulls up on the side their gas cap isn't. And it pretty much works out.
Bingo! That's exactly the point I was trying to make.
Most Mazda vehicles have it on the passenger (right) side, although nearly other every Asian nameplate vehicle has it on the driver's (left) side. Our Mazda 5 van has it on the passenger side, but the CX-5 has it on the driver's side.
There's little consistency, but most American cars made in the past twenty years seem to have it on the driver's (left) side, although I rented 2014 Chevy Malibu which bucked its own trend, by putting it on the passenger side.
Speaking of caps, Ford vehicles in the past few years don't have any...lift the flap and pour.
I'm guessing the location of the fuel filler neck, cap, and door flap is shelved until after 99% of the design, planning, and engineering is already completed.
I avoid the single priced stations because the cash customers are subsidizing the credit customers. At the dual priced stations, credit is between 4 and 8 cents per gallon difference. Just comparing the cash price at dual priced stations and the price at single priced stations shows what the subsidy is.
Quote from: formulanone on September 26, 2014, 08:40:47 AM
Most Mazda vehicles have it on the passenger (right) side, although nearly other every Asian nameplate vehicle has it on the driver's (left) side. Our Mazda 5 van has it on the passenger side, but the CX-5 has it on the driver's side.
My last three vehicles have been Mazdas and all have been on the driver's side - a 2003 Protege 5, a 2010 CX-7, and a 2013 CX-5.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 26, 2014, 10:09:30 AM
I avoid the single priced stations because the cash customers are subsidizing the credit customers. At the dual priced stations, credit is between 4 and 8 cents per gallon difference. Just comparing the cash price at dual priced stations and the price at single priced stations shows what the subsidy is.
As the actual cost of electronic transactions is negligible, the government should just abolish price differentials between cash and credit/debit transactions. Same goes for ATM fees. It may be called a "fee", but it's no different than price gouging.
Quote from: formulanone on September 26, 2014, 08:40:47 AMThere's little consistency, but most American cars made in the past twenty years seem to have it on the driver's (left) side, although I rented 2014 Chevy Malibu which bucked its own trend, by putting it on the passenger side.
Every Ford Motor Company vehicle I've owned ('69 LTD, two '76 LTDs, '85 Grand Marquis, '97 Crown Victoria & '07 Mustang) indeed has/had the fuel door/gas cap located on the left (driver's) side. However, the pre-'91 Ford Escort models had the fuel door/gas cap located on the right (passenger's) side; my family owned three of those Escorts ('83, '86 & '87).
OTOH, my two Chevys ('74 Impala hardtop & '89 Caprice sedan) had the gas cap behind the rear license plate (which had the spring-hinge).
Quote from: formulanone on September 26, 2014, 08:40:47 AMSpeaking of caps, Ford vehicles in the past few years don't have any...lift the flap and pour.
IIRC, such is called a
resealable (capless) system. For the first year or so it was offered; some car reviewers commented that was prone to spillage. Not sure whether later models had a fix for such.
Quote from: roadman on September 26, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 26, 2014, 10:09:30 AM
I avoid the single priced stations because the cash customers are subsidizing the credit customers. At the dual priced stations, credit is between 4 and 8 cents per gallon difference. Just comparing the cash price at dual priced stations and the price at single priced stations shows what the subsidy is.
As the actual cost of electronic transactions is negligible, the government should just abolish price differentials between cash and credit/debit transactions. Same goes for ATM fees. It may be called a "fee", but it's no different than price gouging.
Good luck w/that. Several years ago, ATMs in CT weren't allowed to charge an
on-the-spot fee; but several large banks (First Union being one of them) challenged the ban in court and, sadly, won.
Quote from: spooky on September 26, 2014, 10:20:10 AM
Quote from: formulanone on September 26, 2014, 08:40:47 AM
Most Mazda vehicles have it on the passenger (right) side, although nearly other every Asian nameplate vehicle has it on the driver's (left) side. Our Mazda 5 van has it on the passenger side, but the CX-5 has it on the driver's side.
My last three vehicles have been Mazdas and all have been on the driver's side - a 2003 Protege 5, a 2010 CX-7, and a 2013 CX-5.
My 2002 Protege is also driver's side.
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 26, 2014, 10:52:32 AM
Quote from: formulanone on September 26, 2014, 08:40:47 AMThere's little consistency, but most American cars made in the past twenty years seem to have it on the driver's (left) side, although I rented 2014 Chevy Malibu which bucked its own trend, by putting it on the passenger side.
Every Ford Motor Company vehicle I've owned ('69 LTD, two '76 LTDs, '85 Grand Marquis, '97 Crown Victoria & '07 Mustang) indeed has/had the fuel door/gas cap located on the left (driver's) side. However, the pre-'91 Ford Escort models had the fuel door/gas cap located on the right (passenger's) side; my family owned three of those Escorts ('83, '86 & '87).
The '03 Focus I used to own had it on the right. The current '10 Fusion has it on the left. I wonder if the Focus coming over from Europe has something do with the filler cap location?
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 26, 2014, 10:52:32 AM
Quote from: formulanone on September 26, 2014, 08:40:47 AMSpeaking of caps, Ford vehicles in the past few years don't have any...lift the flap and pour.
IIRC, such is called a resealable (capless) system. For the first year or so it was offered; some car reviewers commented that was prone to spillage. Not sure whether later models had a fix for such.
Ford officially calls it the
Easy Fuel™ Capless Fuel System or
Easy Fuel™ for short. My Fusion has it, and as along as you don't attempt to "top-off" your tank (don't attempt to continue to fill after the pump shuts off), I've had no problems with spillage.
I never gave it a second thought, but apparently some filler nozzles are not compatible (http://owner.ford.com/servlet/ContentServer?cid=1251735780107&pagename=Owner/Page/ArticleDetail). I thought all unleaded nozzles were the same, other than the emissions capture systems.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 25, 2014, 07:43:40 PM
Some people truly don't have a credit card!
some people also truly don't have a driver's license!
I think that to absolutely go without one is senseless. to not use a credit card would not even match the analogy of not driving. if you want to build credit (and, in this society, it's necessary that one has it) then you need to use a credit card and pay it off frequently. it's just the sensible thing to do.
like you two, I put as much as I can on my card. I pay it off every time the balance hits about $1000. sometimes a day or two later if I'm on the road.
Quote from: roadman on September 26, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 26, 2014, 10:09:30 AM
I avoid the single priced stations because the cash customers are subsidizing the credit customers. At the dual priced stations, credit is between 4 and 8 cents per gallon difference. Just comparing the cash price at dual priced stations and the price at single priced stations shows what the subsidy is.
As the actual cost of electronic transactions is negligible, the government should just abolish price differentials between cash and credit/debit transactions. Same goes for ATM fees. It may be called a "fee", but it's no different than price gouging.
Why is this something the government has to fix? If you don't like the fees, go to businesses/ATMs that don't charge them.
If you really want to tilt at windmills, you could report merchants with differential pricing to the credit card companies.
Quote from: roadman on September 26, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
As the actual cost of electronic transactions is negligible, the government should just abolish price differentials between cash and credit/debit transactions. Same goes for ATM fees. It may be called a "fee", but it's no different than price gouging.
it should be done in reverse.
credit card? free
pay cash and make someone have to count it? 1%
pay with a check? 3%
didn't have the check recipient, signature, and other static fields filled out before you got to the register? 5%
haggling at the tollbooth? (saw it just the other day! a trucker was trying to get a discount because his truck was empty.) 10%
playing Magic: the Gathering with coupons? ("and if I cast '$2 off' *after* 'double next coupon' then my dragon is free!") 15%
"oh, I've got the 9 cents here ... let me start digging through this endless heap of old receipts, used condoms, etc..." 25%
time is money, people.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 26, 2014, 01:04:46 PM
some people also truly don't have a driver's license!
....
I find it hard to fathom going without a driver's license in the USA. The "ID cards" issued by the DMV to people who can't or won't get a driver's license are sometimes met with suspicion by people who think a driver's license is the only acceptable form of ID. Even passports confuse some people. I've used my passport as ID on Election Day a few times, mainly because I don't want to go to the nuisance of pulling my driver's license out of the leather case it's in. Some of the old ladies at the polling place get annoyed or confused. One of them complained it didn't have my address on it and so she didn't want to take it. I told her she had no choice because the Virginia statute specifically names a passport as acceptable. Her supervisor agreed with me.
If I'm really in an ornery mood, I sometimes use my passport card. That one really baffles some people. The guy at the Apple Store and I were laughing about that once when I picked up an order and used my passport card after hearing his British accent. He said he uses his green card as ID and it almost always confuses people.
A TSA employee at Reagan Airport once wanted to know why I was using my passport for a flight to Charlotte. I replied, "It's a valid, government-issued photo ID." I didn't see the need to tell him I was connecting on to Mexico in Charlotte. Given his job, he should have been able to surmise I had a connection somewhere.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 25, 2014, 06:57:38 PM
I am also confused.
In most non-directional gas stations, it's a free-for-all. Some come from one way, some from others. Some pull up on the right, some on the left. Almost no one pulls up on the side their gas cap isn't. And it pretty much works out
In the days before the hanging-from-above vapor-recovery hoses, in fact, I don't recall anyone doing this at all.
To bring this back on topic, can you imagine the even longer lines at the Turnpike gas stations if gas caps were all on the same side?
Personally, I'd like to
end the free-for-all. Take the local Stewart's for example. Traffic coming from Wade Rd Ext can use one side. Traffic coming from Forts Ferry Rd can use the other. It works great until someone shows up who has a gas cap on the right. Granted, stations would have to be modified to be non-directional (or at least bi-directional like the Stewart's I just cited).
Quote from: kkt on September 26, 2014, 01:05:42 PM
Quote from: roadman on September 26, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on September 26, 2014, 10:09:30 AM
I avoid the single priced stations because the cash customers are subsidizing the credit customers. At the dual priced stations, credit is between 4 and 8 cents per gallon difference. Just comparing the cash price at dual priced stations and the price at single priced stations shows what the subsidy is.
As the actual cost of electronic transactions is negligible, the government should just abolish price differentials between cash and credit/debit transactions. Same goes for ATM fees. It may be called a "fee", but it's no different than price gouging.
Why is this something the government has to fix? If you don't like the fees, go to businesses/ATMs that don't charge them.
If you really want to tilt at windmills, you could report merchants with differential pricing to the credit card companies.
While it's easy to avoid split cash/credit pricing while home in NY, it's very common in NJ. Unless you refuel exclusively on the Turnpike, I don't know if it's even possible to avoid split cash/credit pricing down there.
Avoiding ATM fees requires that one deal exclusively with an ATM from their own bank. Not practical if one runs out of cash while traveling (unless they have an account with a "too big to fail" bank with crappy service).
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 26, 2014, 01:14:03 PM
A TSA employee at Reagan Airport once wanted to know why I was using my passport for a flight to Charlotte. I replied, "It's a valid, government-issued photo ID." I didn't see the need to tell him I was connecting on to Mexico in Charlotte. Given his job, he should have been able to surmise I had a connection somewhere.
There's a reason why I like to call them things like
Twits and
Stupid
Assholes.
Quote from: vdeane on September 26, 2014, 01:24:19 PM
....
Avoiding ATM fees requires that one deal exclusively with an ATM from their own bank. Not practical if one runs out of cash while traveling (unless they have an account with a "too big to fail" bank with crappy service).
Or patronize a bank that reimburses you for ATM fees charged by other banks. (Ours does that.)
Quote from: vdeane on September 26, 2014, 01:24:19 PM
While it's easy to avoid split cash/credit pricing while home in NY, it's very common in NJ. Unless you refuel exclusively on the Turnpike, I don't know if it's even possible to avoid split cash/credit pricing down there.
All you have to do is ask one of the many people here that live in NJ.
The answer is Yes, you can avoid it. The #1 and most consistent way is by going to Wawa, which advertises Same Price Cash or Credit. After that, it can widely vary. A Citgo around the corner from me is Same Price. Another one a few miles away did Same Price, then split pricing (Cash Discount)...then Same Price...and now Cash Discount (Yeah, I almost wonder if they do that to trick people). A Hess nearby also is Same Price. Lukoil seems to be very consistent with Cash Discount pricing. The truck stops I'll hit for gas (Loves at NJ Turnpike Int. 7; Flying J & Pilot near the Del. Mem. Bridge) all do Same Price.
So if someone is one that tends to hit the same gas stations often, you know which ones are always same price. While traveling elsewhere, you know Wawa will be same price, and just keep an eye out at other stations for their pricing structures.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 26, 2014, 01:09:27 PM
Quote from: roadman on September 26, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
As the actual cost of electronic transactions is negligible, the government should just abolish price differentials between cash and credit/debit transactions. Same goes for ATM fees. It may be called a "fee", but it's no different than price gouging.
it should be done in reverse.
credit card? free
pay cash and make someone have to count it? 1%
pay with a check? 3%
didn't have the check recipient, signature, and other static fields filled out before you got to the register? 5%
haggling at the tollbooth? (saw it just the other day! a trucker was trying to get a discount because his truck was empty.) 10%
playing Magic: the Gathering with coupons? ("and if I cast '$2 off' *after* 'double next coupon' then my dragon is free!") 15%
"oh, I've got the 9 cents here ... let me start digging through this endless heap of old receipts, used condoms, etc..." 25%
time is money, people.
Love that idea! :clap: When I was a cashier, I looked forward to customers paying with plastic. Those that came with small change for a large purchase... :ded:
I absolutely loathe getting stuck behind someone that pays by check. And instead of at least filling out the basics (name of the store, date, etc.) while they're in queue, they waste their time reading the tabloids. :banghead:
To make this NJ Turnpike related (yeah, that's right Steve...merge this back with the NJ Turnpike thread!), I would have people come into the toll lane...hand me their ticket, and then fish around for money. They've been sitting in line. They knew they had to pay a toll. Even if they didn't know the toll amount, at least they could've had their wallet in hand...or had a $20. At the time, even for trucks, tolls would not be more expensive than $20.
And guess what...most of the time, after looking at their money, they eventually pulled out a $20 anyway. That, my friends, is one of the reasons why toll lines take forever. It's not the toll operator. Its the motorist that takes forever to pull their money out of their ass (nearly quite literally).
As for the people that had a toll of, say, $3.55, hand me a $20, and then try to look for exact change: They give me the $20. I would have the $16.45 in my hand by their door within seconds. After they finally searched for and successfully (or unsuccessfully) found that change, they would turn and see my stretched-out hand with their change all ready for them. I would have to be in a really nice mood if I took their 55 cents at that point, because they just slowed me down, and slowed everyone else behind them down too.
The Taurus/Sable from 1986-2007 had it on the passenger side
Quote from: DaBigE on September 26, 2014, 02:34:12 PM
Love that idea! :clap: When I was a cashier, I looked forward to customers paying with plastic. Those that came with small change for a large purchase... :ded:
....
I remember when I worked at a computer store and a guy paid for a $4600 purchase in cash, all $100 bills. That held up the line forever as I had to count it multiple times. Ugh. Really made me wish there were something larger than a $100.
Regarding the tolls, I remember when the Verrazano had a lane marked for exact cash (not a toll machine–bills were OK, but it had to be exact) or tokens only in the years prior to E-ZPass. One time the toll collector was berating the guy ahead of us.....turned out the guy wanted to pay with a $50, in the exact toll lane, for what was then a $7 toll.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on September 26, 2014, 02:28:53 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 26, 2014, 01:24:19 PM
While it's easy to avoid split cash/credit pricing while home in NY, it's very common in NJ. Unless you refuel exclusively on the Turnpike, I don't know if it's even possible to avoid split cash/credit pricing down there.
All you have to do is ask one of the many people here that live in NJ.
The answer is Yes, you can avoid it. The #1 and most consistent way is by going to Wawa, which advertises Same Price Cash or Credit. After that, it can widely vary. A Citgo around the corner from me is Same Price. Another one a few miles away did Same Price, then split pricing (Cash Discount)...then Same Price...and now Cash Discount (Yeah, I almost wonder if they do that to trick people). A Hess nearby also is Same Price. Lukoil seems to be very consistent with Cash Discount pricing. The truck stops I'll hit for gas (Loves at NJ Turnpike Int. 7; Flying J & Pilot near the Del. Mem. Bridge) all do Same Price.
So if someone is one that tends to hit the same gas stations often, you know which ones are always same price. While traveling elsewhere, you know Wawa will be same price, and just keep an eye out at other stations for their pricing structures.
The QuickCheck along US 130 just north of NJ 32 (which interchanges w/I-95/NJTP at Exit 8A) also charges the same price per gallon cash/credit/debit. I first discovered that station one day when I was bypassing the Turnpike due to construction-related jam-ups in that vicinity.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 26, 2014, 02:20:48 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 26, 2014, 01:24:19 PM
....
Avoiding ATM fees requires that one deal exclusively with an ATM from their own bank. Not practical if one runs out of cash while traveling (unless they have an account with a "too big to fail" bank with crappy service).
Or patronize a bank that reimburses you for ATM fees charged by other banks. (Ours does that.)
Sounds like either a credit union or USAA Bank.
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 26, 2014, 03:44:31 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 26, 2014, 02:20:48 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 26, 2014, 01:24:19 PM
....
Avoiding ATM fees requires that one deal exclusively with an ATM from their own bank. Not practical if one runs out of cash while traveling (unless they have an account with a "too big to fail" bank with crappy service).
Or patronize a bank that reimburses you for ATM fees charged by other banks. (Ours does that.)
Sounds like either a credit union or USAA Bank.
Nope, it's a local bank that's been in business forever. We also have accounts at other banks, but patronizing one that doesn't charge fees when you use someone else's ATM
and reimburses the other bank's fee is really nice when you travel.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 26, 2014, 02:57:10 PM
The Taurus/Sable from 1986-2007 had it on the passenger side
yep; I've got a 97 Taurus so I know that fact well. between this and the '89 Escort and '02 Mustang that I have owned, I had thought it a universal that Ford had theirs on the passenger side.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 26, 2014, 05:22:52 PM
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 26, 2014, 02:57:10 PM
The Taurus/Sable from 1986-2007 had it on the passenger side
yep; I've got a 97 Taurus so I know that fact well. between this and the '89 Escort and '02 Mustang that I have owned, I had thought it a universal that Ford had theirs on the passenger side.
The original Mustangs through '73 had the gas cap located in the center-back above the rear bumper. Such was repeated for the '70-'77 Maverick (& Mercury Comet) and the '75-'80 Granada (& Mercury Monarch & '77-'80 Lincoln Versailles).
All full-size (RWD) Fords from 1965 onward, all mid-size Fords from '72-'79 (Torino, Elite, LTD II, '77-'79 T-Bird), and all Pintos & Mustang IIs ('74-'78) had the fuel door/gas cap on the driver's side.
Quote from: SteveG1988 on September 26, 2014, 02:57:10 PM
The Taurus/Sable from 1986-2007 had it on the passenger side
All years and generations of the Taurus have been on the right side. Even the Ford 500 that was made for a few years in place of the Taurus filled on the right.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 26, 2014, 01:09:27 PM
didn't have the check recipient, signature, and other static fields filled out before you got to the register? 5%
I usually get stuck behind the one asshole in the county who still pays for groceries with a check. They will wait until every item and coupon is scanned, then the woman (it's always an older woman) will unload the entire contents of her purse out onto the conveyor belt to find her check book. They then need to ask the cashier to borrow a pen. The cashier often doesn't have one since the need for one is almost nonexistent because everything is electronic nowadays. They finally get a pen from another cashier and the woman begins to fill out the check after asking for the amount owed 3 or 4 times. Then she will turn around and ask me the date. I once took a line from Al Bundy, "I don't know, lady. Look at the date on your milk and add one. Hurry it up, my fucking ice cream is melting!" She then had the nerve to look at me as if I were the asshole. I've made it a policy to not queue in line behind an old woman. If it isn't miss check writer, it's coupon queen instead.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 26, 2014, 01:09:27 PM
Quote from: roadman on September 26, 2014, 10:31:51 AM
As the actual cost of electronic transactions is negligible, the government should just abolish price differentials between cash and credit/debit transactions. Same goes for ATM fees. It may be called a "fee", but it's no different than price gouging.
it should be done in reverse.
credit card? free
pay cash and make someone have to count it? 1%
{...}
time is money, people.
Small businesses in and around NYC usually prefer that their customers pay in cash, because when you pay in cash the owner will likely put it in his pocket and not report it on his taxes. Can't do that with credit card transactions because they leave a digital record trail. I've even had people explicitly tell me "yes, I can take your credit card, but I'm going to have to charge you sales tax if you pay that way".
As for split cash/credit pricing on gasoline, good luck finding a station on Long Island that doesn't do it. It's a way of life out there. In the five boroughs it is common but not universal. Head north out of the city and you pretty quickly stop seeing it. It is interesting how there is such drastic regional variation on this practice within the same state. I assume that Long Island reached some tipping point where so many stations were doing it that you'd lose more money than you gained by not doing it, and that Long Island's geographic isolation helped this occur as well as helped prevent it from spreading.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 26, 2014, 08:57:57 PM
Small businesses in and around NYC usually prefer that their customers pay in cash, because when you pay in cash the owner will likely put it in his pocket and not report it on his taxes. Can't do that with credit card transactions because they leave a digital record trail. I've even had people explicitly tell me "yes, I can take your credit card, but I'm going to have to charge you sales tax if you pay that way".
Arco gas stations in California and some other western states generally don't take credit cards either. They do take debit cards, though. What they're trying to avoid is not the paper trail, but rather the fees charged by the credit card companies (so by cutting out the fees, they can charge lower prices). Or so they say. At least they don't give you a hard time about giving change on a $50 or $100 bill, so long as you fill up your gas tank before coming back inside to get your change.
I've been to a few other gas stations in remote places where the owner pressed me to pay in cash, without explicitly refusing to take my credit card. I did not force the issue with them, since I wasn't sure I could make it to the next gas stations along my route.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 25, 2014, 08:07:45 AM
I know its first come first serve, but some people can and will be anal about it. Having the long hose would be the best option at least at wholesale clubs or at least one way driveways with enforcement. The Sams in Kissimmee, FL has one way driveways in and out, but I have seen plenty times where someone pulls in the wrong way and of course the station attendant does nothing to stop them just as cashiers in supermarkets do nothing about people ignoring the 10 item or less sign at the check out.
What causes this behavior is an edict from management that no customer shall be turned away from the register even if they have 91 items, because then you get people whining to corporate about how they had A Bad Experience and I'll Never Shop Here Again By Which I Mean Tomorrow, and people arguing that since they have two of something it should count as one item, and so on.
You get something similar with gas pumps because no matter who ends up with the pump, a sale is being made either way. It's not worth the station's time to step in and risk pissing someone off. Personally, I avoid stations that are that busy. I'd rather pay a few cents extra than deal with getting in a fight because of something stupid like a gas pump.
Re: ATM fees -- check to see if your bank is a member of the Alliance One network. Both my local bank and my credit union are Alliance One members. That means fee-free ATM transactions. I can withdraw money from my credit union (based in Frankfort) locally at my bank's ATM without incurring any fees.
Quote from: signalman on September 26, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
The cashier often doesn't have one since the need for one is almost nonexistent because everything is electronic nowadays.
Not even for having credit card customers paying over $50 sign their receipt?
Quote from: vdeane on September 27, 2014, 07:33:55 PM
Quote from: signalman on September 26, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
The cashier often doesn't have one since the need for one is almost nonexistent because everything is electronic nowadays.
Not even for having credit card customers paying over $50 sign their receipt?
I haven't signed a paper receipt at a grocery store in a few years now- the signature is usually done by one of those digital pens in the credit card machine. Even the local IGAs around here have you sign the credit card machine instead of a paper receipt.
Quote from: corco on September 27, 2014, 08:33:37 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 27, 2014, 07:33:55 PM
Quote from: signalman on September 26, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
The cashier often doesn't have one since the need for one is almost nonexistent because everything is electronic nowadays.
Not even for having credit card customers paying over $50 sign their receipt?
I haven't signed a paper receipt at a grocery store in a few years now- the signature is usually done by one of those digital pens in the credit card machine. Even the local IGAs around here have you sign the credit card machine instead of a paper receipt.
I don't think I've seen a Price Chopper/Market Bistro (Price Chopper's attempt to ensure Wegmans never expands to Albany) with one outside of the pharmacy (though Market Bistro might have them at the eateries, the Starbucks, or the doctor's office).
Quote from: corco on September 27, 2014, 08:33:37 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 27, 2014, 07:33:55 PM
Quote from: signalman on September 26, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
The cashier often doesn't have one since the need for one is almost nonexistent because everything is electronic nowadays.
Not even for having credit card customers paying over $50 sign their receipt?
I haven't signed a paper receipt at a grocery store in a few years now- the signature is usually done by one of those digital pens in the credit card machine. Even the local IGAs around here have you sign the credit card machine instead of a paper receipt.
Apparently the companies that supply the equipment to capture the signatures charge a fee based on how many signatures you capture (this based on information from my brother when he worked at a computer store that had you sign the paper slip). Evidently that's one reason why some stores still use paper.
The grocery store I usually visit has the electronic things corco mentions in the self-checkout lanes, but in the manned lanes you sign the paper slip. Weird.
My wife and I are planning a trip to Rome. I need to ask American Express whether I can get a chip-and-PIN card. (I'm also interested in trying out Apple Pay next month when it debuts.)
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but most vehicles have some kind of indicator on the fuel gauge telling you which side the filler is located on. Of course, the people who have trouble remembering which side the filler is on probably won't remember that either.
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 28, 2014, 12:00:26 AM
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but most vehicles have some kind of indicator on the fuel gauge telling you which side the filler is located on. Of course, the people who have trouble remembering which side the filler is on probably won't remember that either.
Actually, it was...back on post #4
Quote from: signalman on September 26, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
I've made it a policy to not queue in line behind an old woman. If it isn't miss check writer, it's coupon queen instead.
In my experience the common old lady grocery store offense is arguing over the price of an item because it was 20 cents cheaper in the circular in the newspaper.
This is one reason of several why I always use the self checkout. Old ladies won't touch it. Even still, I used to often have a problem where I'd find myself behind someone (non-elderly) at the self checkout who had trouble figuring out how to get items to scan. But interestingly, this seems to have stopped happening - I guess self-checkouts have been around long enough now that you no longer encounter people using them who are noobs at doing so.
Quote from: corco on September 27, 2014, 08:33:37 PM
Quote from: vdeane on September 27, 2014, 07:33:55 PM
Quote from: signalman on September 26, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
The cashier often doesn't have one since the need for one is almost nonexistent because everything is electronic nowadays.
Not even for having credit card customers paying over $50 sign their receipt?
I haven't signed a paper receipt at a grocery store in a few years now- the signature is usually done by one of those digital pens in the credit card machine. Even the local IGAs around here have you sign the credit card machine instead of a paper receipt.
The electronic signature pads is what I was making reference to. Thanks for clarifying that for me, corco. There are places around that you still have to sign the paper receipt; I work at one. But most large retailers have the electronic signature pads.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 28, 2014, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: signalman on September 26, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
I've made it a policy to not queue in line behind an old woman. If it isn't miss check writer, it's coupon queen instead.
In my experience the common old lady grocery store offense is arguing over the price of an item because it was 20 cents cheaper in the circular in the newspaper.
This is one reason of several why I always use the self checkout. Old ladies won't touch it. Even still, I used to often have a problem where I'd find myself behind someone (non-elderly) at the self checkout who had trouble figuring out how to get items to scan. But interestingly, this seems to have stopped happening - I guess self-checkouts have been around long enough now that you no longer encounter people using them who are noobs at doing so.
I forgot to mention the ones arguing over 20 cents. I even once gave a lady a quarter just so she'd stop her complaining and get out of my way. "Here miss, here's a quarter. I have more important things to do today than wait behind you haggling over small change."
In regards to self checkout, I will use it when it's available. I prefer doing things myself and the impersonal approach when at all possible. Unfortunately at the two places that I buy groceries they do not have it. I'm assuming it's because of produce since it has to be weighed or charged by the piece.
Quote from: signalman on September 28, 2014, 02:25:57 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on September 28, 2014, 01:00:17 AM
Quote from: signalman on September 26, 2014, 06:25:30 PM
I've made it a policy to not queue in line behind an old woman. If it isn't miss check writer, it's coupon queen instead.
In my experience the common old lady grocery store offense is arguing over the price of an item because it was 20 cents cheaper in the circular in the newspaper.
This is one reason of several why I always use the self checkout. Old ladies won't touch it. Even still, I used to often have a problem where I'd find myself behind someone (non-elderly) at the self checkout who had trouble figuring out how to get items to scan. But interestingly, this seems to have stopped happening - I guess self-checkouts have been around long enough now that you no longer encounter people using them who are noobs at doing so.
I forgot to mention the ones arguing over 20 cents. I even once gave a lady a quarter just so she'd stop her complaining and get out of my way. "Here miss, here's a quarter. I have more important things to do today than wait behind you haggling over small change."
In regards to self checkout, I will use it when it's available. I prefer doing things myself and the impersonal approach when at all possible. Unfortunately at the two places that I buy groceries they do not have it. I'm assuming it's because of produce since it has to be weighed or charged by the piece.
Interesting, because the grocery store I go (Shoppers) to lets you weigh the produce on the self checkout lanes yourself, so that can't be the case.
Quote from: kj3400 on September 28, 2014, 02:43:26 AM
Interesting, because the grocery store I go (Shoppers) to lets you weigh the produce on the self checkout lanes yourself, so that can't be the case.
Hmm, good point. Now that I think about it, I've seen it available at other grocery stores in other areas. I guess the two local stores don't want to offer it for reasons that don't seem obvious to me. One cannot buy alcohol at a grocery store in NJ either, so checking IDs for alcohol purchases isn't a concern either.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 26, 2014, 09:43:56 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 25, 2014, 08:07:45 AM
I know its first come first serve, but some people can and will be anal about it. Having the long hose would be the best option at least at wholesale clubs or at least one way driveways with enforcement. The Sams in Kissimmee, FL has one way driveways in and out, but I have seen plenty times where someone pulls in the wrong way and of course the station attendant does nothing to stop them just as cashiers in supermarkets do nothing about people ignoring the 10 item or less sign at the check out.
What causes this behavior is an edict from management that no customer shall be turned away from the register even if they have 91 items, because then you get people whining to corporate about how they had A Bad Experience and I'll Never Shop Here Again By Which I Mean Tomorrow, and people arguing that since they have two of something it should count as one item, and so on.
You get something similar with gas pumps because no matter who ends up with the pump, a sale is being made either way. It's not worth the station's time to step in and risk pissing someone off. Personally, I avoid stations that are that busy. I'd rather pay a few cents extra than deal with getting in a fight because of something stupid like a gas pump.
The store I go to lets customers slide up to about 50% over the limit, ie about 15 items in the "10 or fewer" line and so on. Past that, during high volume hours (evenings and weekends), the cashier can flag some sort of supervisor who "helps" the offending customer by claiming that the specific register won't handle the number of groceries the customer wants to check out but that the store staff can help them over in one of the regular lines. The supervisor remains very apologetic, helps to cart the groceries over to an appropriate register, etc. I've seen it happen several times, these folks are very smooth and it sure looks like they manage to avoid insulting the overladen customer while winning over the rest of us.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 28, 2014, 01:00:17 AM
This is one reason of several why I always use the self checkout. Old ladies won't touch it. Even still, I used to often have a problem where I'd find myself behind someone (non-elderly) at the self checkout who had trouble figuring out how to get items to scan. But interestingly, this seems to have stopped happening - I guess self-checkouts have been around long enough now that you no longer encounter people using them who are noobs at doing so.
In my area the old ladies use the self-checkout, but since they have no clue about how to use it they end up getting full service from the attendant, resulting in knowledgeable customers with legitimate requests for help not being able to get it.
A few months ago I experienced a self-checkout delay when the customer in front of me accidentally scanned the same item twice. When she asked for help, the attendant, who was busy counting paper clips, responded "It'll be awhile; I'm busy," then she went back to counting paper clips. When I tried to speak to the manager later by phone, he didn't care. A week later, at the same store, the attendant (a different one this time) closed a self-checkout machine and put up an "out of order" sign, even though there was no apparent problem. A few minutes later an off-duty employee bypassed the long line of customers (including me) and went to the "out of order" machine; the attendant then removed the sign –
the attendant had reserved the machine for the employee! Again, the manager didn't care. I reported these incidents to corporate headquarters. I was told that the regional manager would get in touch with me, but I've heard nothing.
Thanks, Meijer! :angry:
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on September 24, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
Some cars from the '70s had the gas tank access literally behind the rear license plate, which was on a spring-loaded hinge.
Yep, my '79 Olds Cutlass did.
So does my '83 Grand Prix.
Quote from: signalman on September 28, 2014, 02:49:45 AM
Now that I think about it, I've seen it available at other grocery stores in other areas. I guess the two local stores don't want to offer it for reasons that don't seem obvious to me. One cannot buy alcohol at a grocery store in NJ either, so checking IDs for alcohol purchases isn't a concern either.
I've purchased alcohol at a self-checkout. The way it works is the system flags it and the attendant has to come over to check your ID before you can proceed from scanning to paying.
The thing about self-checkout is that it is a significant capital investment to install it. A lot of stores that don't have it probably don't have it because they haven't had the money to spend on it or the desire to spend money on it.
Also, in cases where the store workers are unionized, that can be an obstacle as well since it cuts a few jobs. Although, the store I go to has a set of self-checkout machines despite being a union shop, so it
can be done.
The whole cap thing's weird, but I guess I've been lucky.
My Festiva, Civic, Regal and Sentra all had the gas caps on the driver's side, as does my girlfriend's Explorer. It really does make things so much easier.
I think my old Monte Carlo was a center fill (1976 model, 2 door), but I'm not sure. I never actually got to drive it. (Broken transmission.)
My Silverado had them on both sides ('85 model, dual tanks), but only the passenger one actually worked (tank switching toggle was broken), and a friend's Taurus that I ride in a lot also has the cap on the passenger side. All of my hate for having to cross the car like that.
Quote from: Alps on September 24, 2014, 06:39:43 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 24, 2014, 03:09:59 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Now if only all vehicle manufacturers would put their gas caps on the same sides of cars. If I'm driving my wife's vehicle, I always pull in to the pump the wrong way because her gas intake is on the passenger's side and the ones on my car and my truck are on the driver's side.
I don't necessarily know if that's a bad thing. I have one car (an RX-7) with the gas cap on the passenger side. At crowded stations it often means I get to the pump more quickly because some people don't want to approach from the other direction or don't want to do a three-point turn to back up to the pump, so I just go around them and pull up to a right-side pump.
Not to get too far OT, but this. You double the throughput of a gas station by having 50% on the right and 50% on the left. Matters less at your neighborhood station, but matters a lot on a freeway rest area where everyone has to point the same way.
I can't comment on gas stations at rest areas because I avoid them like the plague, but this does not work for "neighborhood" stations. Since many more cars have the tank on the left side, they will pull into the station and take up all of the pumps facing the convenience store first, then will drive around at the end of the pumps and take up all of the pumps facing the road, causing a left side gas tank monopoly.
I know this because I have only ever owned cars with right side gas tanks (two Chevy cavaliers). Half the time I have to rush to back into a pump, which is incredibly annoying, and ruins the flow of traffic. (And then there's some left side dumbass pulled in front of me so that I have to parallel my way out of the spot!) If all had pumps were on the left, then an actual traffic pattern could be created and enforced at gas stations.
iPhone
Quote from: kj3400 on September 28, 2014, 02:43:26 AM
Interesting, because the grocery store I go (Shoppers) to lets you weigh the produce on the self checkout lanes yourself, so that can't be the case.
The one I usually patronize (Giant) does that as well. But they also have something better, a system I first saw at Wegmans: They have digital scales throughout the produce area that let you weigh the item and print out a barcoded label to stick on the plastic bag. It saves time at the checkout regardless of whether you use the self-scanner gun, the self-checkout lane, or a manned lane. For some reason, though, a lot of people simply refuse to use those scales. I'd rather generate the label myself because I'll know I entered the correct item code and got the correct price, whereas it's less easy to remain on top of that sort of thing when the cashier is punching in four-digit codes. Plus invariably the cashier winds up looking for a code at some point.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 28, 2014, 08:32:32 PM
Quote from: signalman on September 28, 2014, 02:49:45 AM
Now that I think about it, I've seen it available at other grocery stores in other areas. I guess the two local stores don't want to offer it for reasons that don't seem obvious to me. One cannot buy alcohol at a grocery store in NJ either, so checking IDs for alcohol purchases isn't a concern either.
I've purchased alcohol at a self-checkout. The way it works is the system flags it and the attendant has to come over to check your ID before you can proceed from scanning to paying.
....
Same here. I regularly buy beer or wine at the self-checkout lane using the self-scanner gun I described earlier. The system lets me do everything except finalize payment; before I can do that, an employee has to come over and tell it I'm over age 21 (I think I've been carded one time at that store....funny thing is, though, at age 41 I've been carded more times since turning 40 than I was in all of my 30s combined).
I find it interesting to look at the different self-checkout systems and to see their pluses and minuses. Giant and BJ's Wholesale Club have the self-checkout lanes configured pretty similarly to the manned lanes in terms of there being a conveyor belt leading to a bagging area. After you scan your item you have to place it on the belt (unless you used the self-scanner gun) and it passes a sensor sort of thing to confirm you put it on the belt. Some other stores, such as Harris Teeter and Safeway and Home Depot, have a metal "bagging area" that acts as a scale to detect when you put the item there. What I don't like about that system is that if you bring your own reusable bag or cardboard box, the system often balks when you put the bag in the bagging area–it detects an "unknown item" and shuts down your lane until the cashier can override it. Pain in the arse. It works better, I've found, if you scan your first item and place it in the bag as you set the bag in the bagging area. (All the more reason why I prefer the self-scan gun, but Giant is the only store that has that. They also have an iPhone app that will do the scanning, but I tried it and didn't like it.)
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 28, 2014, 12:00:26 AM
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but most vehicles have some kind of indicator on the fuel gauge telling you which side the filler is located on. Of course, the people who have trouble remembering which side the filler is on probably won't remember that either.
It's funny, I don't think I've ever driven a car, including rentals, that had any such indicator. I have seen very prominent "DIESEL" indicators on the fuel gauge on rental cars I drove in the UK, but that's quite understandable.
I find it hard to fathom why people who drive just a single car on a regular basis have trouble remembering where the fuel filler door is. I can understand why you might forget if you regularly switch between cars having it on the other side and you have to fill them up reasonably often (example: my father's car has it on the left, my mother's on the right, and my father drives both cars fairly often and tends to forget Mom's Volvo has it on the other side because all his cars dating back at least to 1982 have had it on the left). But if you always drive the same car and fill it up regularly, I can't understand why it wouldn't become second-nature to know where it is. Sort of like light switches at home: I don't have to look for them and I don't have any trouble finding them in the dark because after 13 years I know where they are.
Quote from: cjk374 on September 28, 2014, 02:49:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 24, 2014, 10:45:15 PM
Quote from: lepidopteran on September 24, 2014, 03:46:34 PM
Some cars from the '70s had the gas tank access literally behind the rear license plate, which was on a spring-loaded hinge.
Yep, my '79 Olds Cutlass did.
So does my '83 Grand Prix.
No surprise there, the Olds Cutlass & Pontiac Grand Prix shared the same platform during those model years.
GM's full & mid-size RWD coupes & sedans from the 60s onward had the center-located gas cap with the spring-hinged license plate door. The last mid-sizes to offer such were the 1988 Chevy Monte Carlo & Olds Cutlass Supreme Classic. As previously stated, GM's full-size sedans offered such through 1996.
All GM RWD station wagons had the fuel door on the driver's side.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2014, 09:54:41 AMQuote from: JREwing78 on September 28, 2014, 12:00:26 AM
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but most vehicles have some kind of indicator on the fuel gauge telling you which side the filler is located on. Of course, the people who have trouble remembering which side the filler is on probably won't remember that either.
It's funny, I don't think I've ever driven a car, including rentals, that had any such indicator. I have seen very prominent "DIESEL" indicators on the fuel gauge on rental cars I drove in the UK, but that's quite understandable.
Vehicles sold in the U.S.,
regardless of make & model at least among domestic brands, have had such fuel door marking indicators near the fuel gauge since the 1990s.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2014, 09:54:41 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on September 28, 2014, 12:00:26 AM
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet, but most vehicles have some kind of indicator on the fuel gauge telling you which side the filler is located on. Of course, the people who have trouble remembering which side the filler is on probably won't remember that either.
It's funny, I don't think I've ever driven a car, including rentals, that had any such indicator. I have seen very prominent "DIESEL" indicators on the fuel gauge on rental cars I drove in the UK, but that's quite understandable.
That little indicator on the guage is one of those things where you would never notice it if someone doesn't point it out, you've driven enough cars with the caps on the opposite sides or if you stumbled upon it in a manual. I don't think I realized what that was until a few cars in, probably after I noticed that it was pointing in opposite directions depending on the car I was driving at the time...
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 29, 2014, 10:12:18 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2014, 09:54:41 AM
It's funny, I don't think I've ever driven a car, including rentals, that had any such indicator. I have seen very prominent "DIESEL" indicators on the fuel gauge on rental cars I drove in the UK, but that's quite understandable.
Vehicles sold in the U.S., regardless of make & model, have had such fuel door marking indicators near the fuel gauge since the 1990s.
Not disputing your comment, but I can't say I've ever noticed any such indicator in any car I've ever driven. I'll have to get down really close and squint at my dashboard this afternoon....
(edited to fix mangled quotes)
Just look to see if there is a little triangle pointing to the right or the left located in close proximity to the gas gauge.
Drove my wife's vehicle on Saturday and noticed the text "FUEL > DOOR" (but the > was a triangle) near the gas gauge. I think mine just has the triangle without the text. Hers is a 2003 Saturn Vue, mine is a 2008 Vue.
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2014, 10:46:41 AM
Just look to see if there is a little triangle pointing to the right or the left located in close proximity to the gas gauge.
Drove my wife's vehicle on Saturday and noticed the text "FUEL > DOOR" (but the > was a triangle) near the gas gauge. I think mine just has the triangle without the text. Hers is a 2003 Saturn Vue, mine is a 2008 Vue.
My 2012 Focus has a gas pump icon with a > symbol, but it only appears if you pull up the "Average MPG" screen. My 1999 Contour had a similar gas pump
icon, but IIRC, the > symbol only appeared when the "Low Fuel" light came on.
edited to clarify the gas pump icon - thanks PHLBOS
Quote from: hbelkins on September 29, 2014, 10:46:41 AM
Just look to see if there is a little triangle pointing to the right or the left located in close proximity to the gas gauge.
Drove my wife's vehicle on Saturday and noticed the text "FUEL > DOOR" (but the > was a triangle) near the gas gauge. I think mine just has the triangle without the text. Hers is a 2003 Saturn Vue, mine is a 2008 Vue.
None of our cars have any sort of triangle whatsoever. The only thing I can think of that might be considered to show which side the fuel-filler door is on would be the position of the pump in the gas-pump icon. I just e-mailed this same picture to my parents and asked them to tell me how the icon is oriented in my mother's Volvo S80. Her gas cap is on the passenger's side, so I'm curious whether the pump icon is reversed in that car. (If that's supposed to tell the driver on which side he can find the fuel-filler door, that's pretty damn subtle for the average driver out there. I think the "exit tab is on the side of the sign where the ramp is" principle is not something most drivers know about, yet it's far less subtle than the way the gas-pump icon faces.)
Picture of my 2004 Acura TL taken about 15 minutes ago (fuel-filler door is on driver's side):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2F3EF42895-4ECB-4424-8C5B-59E6B8E4BFAE_zpsjcrnpbkv.jpg&hash=8da70cddeb7b3ae483bc108f2fad05e644f5f8dc)
Edited to follow up: I asked my father about the Volvo and he looked at both their cars (a 1998 Acura 3.5 RL and a 2010 Volvo S80). He said the pump icon looks the same on each despite the fuel-filler doors being on opposite sides (driver's side on the Acura, passenger's side on the Volvo). The Volvo doesn't use a gauge with a needle, though–it has a digital graph-like thing and that graph has a little triangle pointing to the passenger's side. The Acura has a gauge with a needle and no triangle or other indicator. So the idea that the pump icon tells you on which side you can find the fuel-filler door appears to be an urban legend.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2014, 03:11:14 PM
None of our cars have any sort of triangle whatsoever. The only thing I can think of that might be considered to show which side the fuel-filler door is on would be the position of the pump in the gas-pump icon.
Picture of my 2004 Acura TL taken about 15 minutes ago (fuel-filler door is on driver's side):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2F3EF42895-4ECB-4424-8C5B-59E6B8E4BFAE_zpsjcrnpbkv.jpg&hash=8da70cddeb7b3ae483bc108f2fad05e644f5f8dc)
I'm surprsed to see that your Acura doesn't have the triangle next to the fuel gauge pointing to the left side of the car. Acura's lesser expensive counterpart Honda has it. I currently own a 2014 Civic and I've driven serveral Accords ranging from 2002 to 2014; all of which had the triangle pointing to the left.
Granted, I've never seen a Honda or Acura that had the fuel door on the right. But how is John Q. Vehicle owner/leasee supposed to know that?
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2014, 03:11:14 PMPicture of my 2004 Acura TL taken about 15 minutes ago (fuel-filler door is on driver's side):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi31.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc378%2F1995hoo%2F3EF42895-4ECB-4424-8C5B-59E6B8E4BFAE_zpsjcrnpbkv.jpg&hash=8da70cddeb7b3ae483bc108f2fad05e644f5f8dc)
The 2014 Acura models have the arrow next to the gas pump symbol in question.
2014 Acura TSX shown below:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xmMQKdTUKQc%2FUjhzz2-d54I%2FAAAAAAAANi4%2FScscsJy_6qA%2Fs1600%2F2014-acura-tsx-interior-special-edition-gauge-cluster-speedometer.jpg&hash=9452f0c5f8d1bc0d9fc03882ae7233eeb45f7661)
Doing another Image Search and found a 2008 TL instrument cluster that had the same fuel door arrow as well. I have no idea why a 2004 Acura would
not feature such. Just about every other car in the market did by then.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2014, 03:11:14 PMSo the idea that the pump icon tells you on which side you can find the fuel-filler door appears to be an urban legend.
Not the pump icon itself (which has been on instrument panels since 1981) but rather an arrow/triangle next to said-icon.
The 2008 and 2014 may have that, but I wouldn't consider that to be conclusive as to the following blanket statement, would you?
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 29, 2014, 10:12:18 AM
Vehicles sold in the U.S., regardless of make & model, have had such fuel door marking indicators near the fuel gauge since the 1990s.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 29, 2014, 05:11:25 PM
The 2008 and 2014 may have that, but I wouldn't consider that to be conclusive as to the following blanket statement, would you?
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 29, 2014, 10:12:18 AM
Vehicles sold in the U.S., regardless of make & model at least among domestic brands, have had such fuel door marking indicators near the fuel gauge since the 1990s.
Original post has been since edited/corrected; see above.
My '97 Crown Vic, a vehicle that was considered to be an archiac dinosaur even then, had the
< indicated with the words
FUEL FILL DOOR placed right next to it. The first Crown Vic that offered it was the 1990 model.
Quote from: roadman on September 29, 2014, 03:05:43 PMMy 2012 Focus has a gas pump icon with a > symbol, but it only appears if you pull up the "Average MPG" screen.
I just did an Image Search for the 2012 Focus and the fuel gauge shows the gas pump icon with the small triangle pointing towards to the right.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frcdn.carreview.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F10%2F2012_ford_focus_30.jpg&hash=521b259ad1efe97c9b458efa60c67f7e298f35fe)
Quote from: roadman on September 29, 2014, 03:05:43 PMMy 1999 Contour had a similar symbol, but it only appeared when the "Low Fuel" light came on.
That's odd. Most of the Ford Contour clusters, eBay has several, show the fuel pump icon with the triangle pointing right located at the lower right corner of the fuel gauge.
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 29, 2014, 05:46:45 PM
That's odd. Most of the Ford Contour clusters, eBay has several, show the fuel pump icon with the triangle pointing right located at the lower right corner of the fuel gauge.
Thanks for the correction (I've updated my original post). What I meant to say was that the cluster had the gas pump icon, but the > symbol only came on when the low fuel light came on. The only reason I recall this is because as I went to leave on the test drive (the salesmen trusted me to take the car out by myself), I noticed the low fuel light was lit. Salesman took the car and came back about ten minutes later - car had a full tank of gas.
After that, Sarah's fuel warning light came on only once in all the years I drove her - see https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8784.msg208812;topicseen#msg208812 for details.
My girlfriend's 2013 Focus looks basically the same as the above image. It has that angle bracket to the right but it's not immediately intuitive that it's pointing to the gas cap. My 2009 Focus had a right pointing triangle next to the fuel pump icon and my 2011 Sentra does as well.
What I don't recall ever having seen is a left pointing triangle. It seems to me that they put the right pointing triangle as a reminder since a drivers' side cap is more intuitive to most people.
Of course, for quite a while every car in my immediate family has featured a passenger side gas cap, so at this point having the gas cap be on the drivers' side seems weird to me!
I am aware enough of this being an issue, though, that whenever I get in an unfamiliar car the question of "which side is the gas cap on" is something I do usually think to check before pulling into a gas station. The first car in my family to have a passenger side cap (one of my father's Sentras from several cars ago) also had the triangle and after we realized the oddity of the cap being on the right we very quickly noticed the little triangle on the fuel gauge. Ever since I now know to look for it. This is a thing a lot of people don't notice, eh?
The instrument cluster in the MK3 Focus (2012 to present) hasn't changed between 2012 and 2014. Can't vouch for the new 2015 model, as I've not seen one yet.
Quote from: 1995hoo on September 27, 2014, 10:10:38 PM
My wife and I are planning a trip to Rome. I need to ask American Express whether I can get a chip-and-PIN card. (I'm also interested in trying out Apple Pay next month when it debuts.)
Amex, along with most other big banks, is issuing EMV cards now if you call and ask. They're all going chip-and-signature though, not chip-and-PIN. It still works fine in a Europe.
Be prepared for the occasional confused store clerk here in the US. As the chip readers are starting to come online here in the US, store clerks are very confused when they swipe your card and it comes back with an "error: insert card" message.
As for the triangle on the fuel gauge icon, it's been a very long time since I drove a rental car without the triangle. Left or right, foreign or domestic, they all have it.
Quote from: realjd on September 29, 2014, 10:26:16 PM
Amex, along with most other big banks, is issuing EMV cards now if you call and ask. They're all going chip-and-signature though, not chip-and-PIN. It still works fine in a Europe.
Be prepared for the occasional confused store clerk here in the US. As the chip readers are starting to come online here in the US, store clerks are very confused when they swipe your card and it comes back with an "error: insert card" message.
Chip-and-signature won't work on automated card readers where there's no clerks (kiosks, gas pumps, etc.) and I've read that some merchants have a policy that says they won't accept signature-based cards even if they can carry out the transaction. I don't understand why we're doing it this way. We're going to the expense of a new standard but adopting one that is less secure, less convenient (who wants to sign when using their card? Not me - I'd rather punch in a PIN and be done, especially since I never mastered the art of signing things quickly/consistently), and still different from the entire rest of the world, just because some Americans (and Visa) fear change.
Quote from: Duke87 on September 29, 2014, 08:03:02 PMWhat I don't recall ever having seen is a left pointing triangle.
Both my fore-mentioned '97 Crown Vic. & '07 Mustang have such.
2005-2009 Mustang GT gauge shown:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdealeraccelerate-all.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fbca%2Fimages%2F1%2F7%2F5%2F175%2F3824_628950dba0_low_res.jpg&hash=3fc2be3a510b84e5da5aaa74c223de27c2951fc9)
Quote from: vdeane on September 30, 2014, 01:02:37 PM
Chip-and-signature won't work on automated card readers where there's no clerks (kiosks, gas pumps, etc.) and I've read that some merchants have a policy that says they won't accept signature-based cards even if they can carry out the transaction. I don't understand why we're doing it this way. We're going to the expense of a new standard but adopting one that is less secure, less convenient (who wants to sign when using their card? Not me - I'd rather punch in a PIN and be done, especially since I never mastered the art of signing things quickly/consistently), and still different from the entire rest of the world, just because some Americans (and Visa) fear change.
It has nothing to do with fearing change and everything to do with being cheap and not wanting to spend money.
Going from using a magstrip to using a chip is a front-end change for which most of the cost is borne by retailers, since they are the ones that have to buy new card readers. Pretty much all the credit card companies have to do is start sticking a chip in the new cards they send people. I got one myself last week. It's spiffy.
Going from signature to PIN, however, is largely a back-end change that requires the credit card companies to rewrite their software and such, and take the effort of making all their customers create a PIN when they get a new card. I'm sure the credit card companies have done their actuarial work and determined that the cost of doing this would exceed the lost revenue of not doing it and that therefore it isn't worth it, customer convenience be damned. So you're not going to start seeing PINs unless regulators demand it or unless the signatures prove to be an achilles heel which allows there to still be major security issues.
Yes, this means the US does it a different way from the rest of the world, but that's true of a lot of things. This means Americans may have problems using their credit cards when they travel, and people from other countries may have problems using their credit cards when they visit the US. The industry has determined that both of these problems are infrequent enough to not matter. 64% of Americans do not even have a passport, after all.
When I got my initial HSBC MasterCard, it has a pre-set cash advance PIN that was randomly generated. The card companies could just do that.
I think chip-and-pin cards work with chip-and-signature systems, but of course the reverse is not true, so in essence, anyone will be able to use a credit card anywhere, unless they're American, in which case they will be able to use a card in the US only. *cue rant about unfairness and how we have a duty to make life as fair as possible for everyone*
Quote from: vdeane on September 30, 2014, 01:02:37 PM
Quote from: realjd on September 29, 2014, 10:26:16 PM
Amex, along with most other big banks, is issuing EMV cards now if you call and ask. They're all going chip-and-signature though, not chip-and-PIN. It still works fine in a Europe.
Be prepared for the occasional confused store clerk here in the US. As the chip readers are starting to come online here in the US, store clerks are very confused when they swipe your card and it comes back with an "error: insert card" message.
Chip-and-signature won't work on automated card readers where there's no clerks (kiosks, gas pumps, etc.) and I've read that some merchants have a policy that says they won't accept signature-based cards even if they can carry out the transaction. I don't understand why we're doing it this way. We're going to the expense of a new standard but adopting one that is less secure, less convenient (who wants to sign when using their card? Not me - I'd rather punch in a PIN and be done, especially since I never mastered the art of signing things quickly/consistently), and still different from the entire rest of the world, just because some Americans (and Visa) fear change.
I've used my chip-and-sig EMV cards in plenty of unattended kiosks in several countries. The only place I really have a problem with it is Australia where they have their EFTPOS network, but it's never an issue at manned ticket counters. There are also plenty of other countries that are primarily chip-and-sig (much of SE Asia and South America for instance) so the US isn't alone in that. A few EU nations are primarily chip-and-sig also (Italy and Spain IIRC).
I've encountered foreign shopkeepers uncomfortable with mag-swipe cards but never chip-and-sig. The worst that happens is that I have to inform them that I have to sign because they don't really look at the slip that prints out.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 01, 2014, 02:08:00 AM
Quote from: vdeane on September 30, 2014, 01:02:37 PM
Chip-and-signature won't work on automated card readers where there's no clerks (kiosks, gas pumps, etc.) and I've read that some merchants have a policy that says they won't accept signature-based cards even if they can carry out the transaction. I don't understand why we're doing it this way. We're going to the expense of a new standard but adopting one that is less secure, less convenient (who wants to sign when using their card? Not me - I'd rather punch in a PIN and be done, especially since I never mastered the art of signing things quickly/consistently), and still different from the entire rest of the world, just because some Americans (and Visa) fear change.
It has nothing to do with fearing change and everything to do with being cheap and not wanting to spend money.
Going from using a magstrip to using a chip is a front-end change for which most of the cost is borne by retailers, since they are the ones that have to buy new card readers. Pretty much all the credit card companies have to do is start sticking a chip in the new cards they send people. I got one myself last week. It's spiffy.
Going from signature to PIN, however, is largely a back-end change that requires the credit card companies to rewrite their software and such, and take the effort of making all their customers create a PIN when they get a new card. I'm sure the credit card companies have done their actuarial work and determined that the cost of doing this would exceed the lost revenue of not doing it and that therefore it isn't worth it, customer convenience be damned. So you're not going to start seeing PINs unless regulators demand it or unless the signatures prove to be an achilles heel which allows there to still be major security issues.
Yes, this means the US does it a different way from the rest of the world, but that's true of a lot of things. This means Americans may have problems using their credit cards when they travel, and people from other countries may have problems using their credit cards when they visit the US. The industry has determined that both of these problems are infrequent enough to not matter. 64% of Americans do not even have a passport, after all.
Chip-and-pin isn't a back end change. The technology works by authenticating the PIN against the chip itself, not a server, so it's offline authentication.