When did "I-(number)" and "M-(number)" become common usage for interstates and Michigan state roads respectively?
And why is the state initial-route number combo unique AFAIK to the Wolverine State?
ixnay
QuoteWhen did "I-(number)" and "M-(number)" become common usage for interstates and Michigan state roads respectively?
I've seen the former for as long as I can remember (at least to the early 1980s).
QuoteAnd why is the state initial-route number combo unique AFAIK to the Wolverine State?
It's not unique. K-xx is commonly used for Kansas state routes.
M-xx has been around a very long time, maybe from as long as 1918, when they were first posted. The original signs were a diamond with a block M at the top, "STATE TRUNK LINE" across the middle, and the number at the bottom. By 1926, they just had the M at the top and the number below as today.
Quote from: froggie on September 28, 2014, 08:55:47 AM
QuoteWhen did "I-(number)" and "M-(number)" become common usage for interstates and Michigan state roads respectively?
I've seen the former for as long as I can remember (at least to the early 1980s).
QuoteAnd why is the state initial-route number combo unique AFAIK to the Wolverine State?
It's not unique. K-xx is commonly used for Kansas state routes.
We always say "ell-ay" (LA) for the Louisiana state highways.
Many times my dad calls Interstate 75 "I-75", and he has my entire life, so I don't see it as unusual at all. When I'm talking I'll say "I-xx" half the time and "Interstate xx" the other half of the time. When I'm typing I'll almost always say "I-xx".
Quote from: adventurernumber1 on September 28, 2014, 10:01:18 AM
Many times my dad calls Interstate 75 "I-75", and he has my entire life, so I don't see it as unusual at all. When I'm talking I'll say "I-xx" half the time and "Interstate xx" the other half of the time. When I'm typing I'll almost always say "I-xx".
Everything in New Jersey is either Route xx or xx. On NJ.com, US Highways are Routes, State Highways are Routes, County Roads are XX County Road YYY, and even Interstates are referred to as Routes (78, 287, for example). However, some articles do mention Interstates as Interstates and not Routes. Why is this? Because most New Jerseyans (and this is pretty common in the Northeast, so I imagine Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, etc don't care as well) simply know the number and that's it. My Dad knows the US Highway shield from an Interstate shield - but he never calls them anything but the number.
Other ways for state routes are of course SR which can mean State Route, or State Road, or SH, which can be State Highway. Don't expect a British fellow to call Michigan Route 10 M-10 though, because then he would think it's a Motorway. :biggrin:
Quote from: Zeffy on September 28, 2014, 12:12:18 PM
Don't expect a British fellow to call Michigan Route 10 M-10 though, because then he would think it's a Motorway. :biggrin:
Actually, most of M-10
is a "motorway", the John C. Lodge Freeway. :bigass:
Kansas is like Michigan but calls its state highway designations K-x. No KS 96, but K-96 goes from Hutchinson, KS to Wichita, KS as a Kansan would say.
US routes and interstates are by what we call them.
Some states use SR, SH, or state abbreviation before the number, but Michigan and Kansas use the one letter.
Quote from: Zeffy on September 28, 2014, 12:12:18 PM
Everything in New Jersey is either Route xx or xx. On NJ.com, US Highways are Routes, State Highways are Routes, County Roads are XX County Road YYY, and even Interstates are referred to as Routes (78, 287, for example). However, some articles do mention Interstates as Interstates and not Routes. Why is this? Because most New Jerseyans (and this is pretty common in the Northeast, so I imagine Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, etc don't care as well) simply know the number and that's it. My Dad knows the US Highway shield from an Interstate shield - but he never calls them anything but the number.
I suspect this has something to do with the fact that NJ does not have any state routes that share a number with a US or Interstate route, so just using a number is unique enough. County route numbers do repeat (except the 500 series), but tend not to get used (the street names are used instead) except in very rural areas.
PA and NY are a bit different as they like their main freeways named.
Quote from: bzakharin on September 28, 2014, 02:06:16 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on September 28, 2014, 12:12:18 PM
Everything in New Jersey is either Route xx or xx. On NJ.com, US Highways are Routes, State Highways are Routes, County Roads are XX County Road YYY, and even Interstates are referred to as Routes (78, 287, for example). However, some articles do mention Interstates as Interstates and not Routes. Why is this? Because most New Jerseyans (and this is pretty common in the Northeast, so I imagine Pennsylvanians, New Yorkers, etc don't care as well) simply know the number and that's it. My Dad knows the US Highway shield from an Interstate shield - but he never calls them anything but the number.
PA and NY are a bit different as they like their main freeways named.
Interstate 81 is named? I know I-99 is named after the idiot who created its number, even then do people call it the Bud Schuster Byway as it is implied by some signs on the side of the road. I never heard I-83, I-84, etc. called by name.
NY is also "route XX" once you get upstate, despite the fact that we have some duplication.
It was explained to me, when I was living in Michigan, that the use of "M" before the number was partially due to the M being on the sign, and also to differentiate between Michigan Trunk Routes, and US Highways as there is no prohibition on duplication between road types.
In Washington, most people either just use the route number, SR, or Highway (even though we haven't had state highways is 50 years), the same is true largely for Oregon. However, when in Oregon, you normally refer to Oregon routes either by number, or as Route XXX, and always differentiate them from Washington routes by saying SR XXX.
Well in parts California roadgeeks will call state routes CA-XX or the Bay Area calls it Highway XX or in Socal its "The XX"
US Routes similar ways The 101 in SoCal, Highway 101 in the Bay Area and in Sacramento US-50.
Interstates SoCal Calls it "the 5 Freeway", Norcal its Highway 880 and in Solano and Sacramento Counties its I-80, I-505 and I-5.
I know some Socal People visiting Norcal and they refer I-505 as the 505 Freeway similar to the way they say the 405 freeway (I-405)
County Routes in California only local name such as "Capitol Expressway" is used for Public ID. Never its official number Such as E-1, E-2, E-3 as it is in Sacramento.
Thanks for the answers, but what *hasn't* been answered (unless I missed it) was whether anyone was calling them "I-xx" from 1956 when Ike signed the bill? Of course, a lot of people who would've had the opportunity to do so in the late '50s would be dead by now and unable to answer. As for this 53-yo, I first heard "interstate" as a 7yo (in my father mentioning "we're going on Interstate 95"). My mom used "interstate" rather than "I" in that context too. It wasn't until I was maybe 9 yo that I first heard or read "I-xx". I turned 9 in 1970, so that would've bene 14 years after Ike signed the bill.
ixnay
As far as I know, K-xx is the official nomenclature. The only thing I've seen KDOT expand it to is e.g. "K-31 Highway". I believe the same is true for Michigan.
So the answer to your question is likely whenever highways of that type were first designated. Throwing a guess out there: since Michigan was signing highways before Kansas, the above explanation for Michigan happened first, then Kansas borrowed the term.
It may be different for Interstates since the I- is actually an abbreviation.
Officially, Nebraska Department of Roads refers to its highways as N-x, but as far as I know, no one ever calls a state highway anything but Highway X, and US highways are US Highway X. Then again, if you are in a town somewhere, it's probable they call it whatever the town decided to call the street the highway is on instead of the highway number.
Growing up in NJ, "I-" was foreign to me, such that when I first heard "I-95," I was certain someone was misreading "195." The very thought of someone speaking "eye eighty" in New Jersey feels... wrong. It doesn't happen.
What do they say, just "80"? That practice is common nationwide, and often co-exists with "I-".
New Jersey tends to say "Root" xx, regardless of the type of route shield.
Quote from: roadman65 on September 28, 2014, 04:00:25 PMQuote from: bzakharin on September 28, 2014, 02:06:16 PM
PA and NY are a bit different as they like their main freeways named.
Interstate 81 is named? I know I-99 is named after the idiot who created its number, even then do people call it the Bud Schuster Byway as it is implied by some signs on the side of the road. I never heard I-83, I-84, etc. called by name.
People refer to I-95 in Philly as such or just
95 or
Route 95 and never refer to it as the Delaware Expressway.
It seems to me that
most if not all of the northeastern states refer to any route, regardless of type, as just the route number or
Route XX (fill in applicable number).
What I find mildly interesting is that the use of "I-xx," with the hyphen, is pretty much universal among people on this forum, yet people often omit the hyphen when referring to other sorts of roads, such as US Routes. Some of us (myself included) use the hyphen for all classes of road in that context: I-95, US-29, VA-236, etc. Some people only use it for Interstates: I-95, US 29, VA 236 (or SR 236 if the state context is clear), etc.
I've always used the hyphen simply because that's how I'd always seen it done and it seems logical to me to use the same format for all the different types. I suppose from a grammatical standpoint the hyphen might be said to serve a similar function to an apostrophe.
I pronounce "route" as rhyming with "out." I once heard someone argue that the distinction is that the pronunciation "root" should be a noun and "rout" should be a verb: A person with a paper route ("root") is required to route ("rout") the papers to customers' homes. (Similar concept to a computer router, I suppose?) But since my grandparents and parents all said it like "rout," it sounds funny to me to hear it otherwise.
My first exposure to state abbreviations for highways was in the newspapers years ago, when they referred to Kentucky state routes as KY nn. At some point about 10-12 years ago, they started referring to state highways as Ky. nn. I think the general practice is still to call routes on the United States numbered highway system US nn as opposed to U.S. nn.
KYTC generally refers to them as KY nn and US nn, and those are the abbreviations I use in press releases and so forth. I don't have any interstates in my district but I generally hyphenate, I-nn.
Years ago, I had a girlfriend whose family called it "Hi" (or "High") 64" instead of I-64. I think they were using "Hi" as an abbreviation for "highway" in the context that the interstate was a highway while other roads were just roads.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on September 29, 2014, 06:13:04 AM
The very thought of someone speaking "eye eighty" in New Jersey feels... wrong. It doesn't happen.
Yeah... I agree with this statement. Even I just say the number without anything proceeding it, at least in real life. Even on here though, I jump from including the I-, US, SR prefixes to not including them.
For all of New England, Interstates are "I-xx" or just "xx" , and any US or state highway is "Route-xx" Only limited access roads are often called by their actual names. This includes: Merritt/Wilbur Cross Parkways (often just "The Parkway"), Berlin Turnpike, Milford Connector, Mass Pike, Maine Turnpike, Spaulding Turnpike,
Traditionally, Utah state routes were referred to as "U-xx," but considering how similar "U-xx" is to "US-xx," those within UDOT and the general public refer to state routes as "SR-xx" for differentiation reasons. That said, it still doesn't curb all confusion between "US" and "SR."
Let's not forget that the CO state highways are prefixed as "C-xx". (i.e. the southwestern part of the still-not-yet-complete Denver loop is called C-470)
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 29, 2014, 09:46:56 AMPeople refer to I-95 in Philly as such or just 95 or Route 95 and never refer to it as the Delaware Expressway.
Philly area:
I-95: 95
I-76: Schuylkill Expressway, the Schuylkill, the #$%^ Schuylkill
I-276: the Turnpike, the PA Turnpike
I-476: the Blue Route, 476, the NE Extension
I-676: the Vine, Vine St Expressway
Most PA State Routes: local names only.
US 1: always by local name (City Ave/City Line Ave/Roosevelt Blvd) except N of the Turnpike, where it's Route 1
Everything else: number only (e.g. US 202/422 are just 202 and 422)
NJ side:
I-76: 42, the 42 freeway
I-95(M): 95
I-295: 295, Route 295
I-676: 676, N-S freeway
NJ 42: 42, the 42 freeway, N-S freeway, Route 42
US 30: Admiral Wilson Blvd, White Horse Pike
NJ 154: Brace Rd
NJ 168/42/US 322: Black Horse Pike
Most county routes: local names only. It's not 537, it's Federal St or Maple Ave or Main St or Marne Hwy or...
Everything else: "Route xx," occasionally just "xx". Nobody uses "I-" or "US" or "NJ."
Texas, of course, has the farm-to-market roads which are called FM xxxx in normal conversation (even though the shields say "Farm Road"). Interstates are called Interstate xx (though the state has a habit of putting IH-xx on mileage signs), and U.S. and proper state highways are Highway xx. Then there are the assorted loops, spurs and business.
Quote from: PHLBOS on September 29, 2014, 09:46:56 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 28, 2014, 04:00:25 PMQuote from: bzakharin on September 28, 2014, 02:06:16 PM
PA and NY are a bit different as they like their main freeways named.
Interstate 81 is named? I know I-99 is named after the idiot who created its number, even then do people call it the Bud Schuster Byway as it is implied by some signs on the side of the road. I never heard I-83, I-84, etc. called by name.
People refer to I-95 in Philly as such or just 95 or Route 95 and never refer to it as the Delaware Expressway.
It seems to me that most if not all of the northeastern states refer to any route, regardless of type, as just the route number or Route XX (fill in applicable number).
I've lived my entire life in PA, MD, and, briefly, NJ, and done a lot of vacationing, shopping, and working in Delaware, and rarely venturing west of the Appalachians, and that's how I grew up pronouncing them and hearing them pronounced (using I-xx or "root" xx). OTOH both of Delaware's daily newspapers, for reasons know only to their editors (apparently), use "(state name) xx" (a mentality that obviously exits on this board, unnecessarily).
If I were to move to MI, KS, etc., tomorrow, I probably would continue to use "root" xx for state and U.S. routes, I hate to tell you.
ixnay
Well I have my father who call all numbered routes "highway ##" - which is very typical of such in Wisconsin. (Officially, its I-xx, US-xx and STH-XX (alt: WIS-xx)
Quote from: Henry on October 06, 2014, 12:46:49 PM
Let's not forget that the CO state highways are prefixed as "C-xx". (i.e. the southwestern part of the still-not-yet-complete Denver loop is called C-470)
Actually, C-470 is the only Colorado state highway referred to with the C- prefix. All others are, for example, SH-83 or just Highway 83.
Quote from: halork on October 07, 2014, 11:45:52 PM
Actually, C-470 is the only Colorado state highway referred to with the C- prefix. All others are, for example, SH-83 or just Highway 83.
C-470 may be the one most commonly used (to distinguish the free state highway from the E-470 toll road), but it's not uncommon to hear it used colloquially for any other state highway. Same reason as Michigan, because there's a C on the sign.
Quote from: ixnay on October 07, 2014, 08:49:57 PM
....
If I were to move to MI, KS, etc., tomorrow, I probably would continue to use "root" xx for state and U.S. routes, I hate to tell you.
Heh. I could never bring myself to say "Highway xx" (example: "Highway 83," as in halork's post just up the thread). It sounds utterly unnatural to me because I've always heard "highway" as a generic term referring to the class of road most roadgeeks refer to as a "freeway" (e.g., "If you're heading into DC during rush hour, stay off the highway because of the traffic.").
Quote from: ixnay on October 07, 2014, 08:49:57 PM
If I were to move to MI, KS, etc., tomorrow, I probably would continue to use "root" xx for state and U.S. routes, I hate to tell you.
Then you'd probably be constantly corrected by the locals. Don't sweat it too much, I tend to use the following for other states:
A-nn for Alabama, Arkansas, Alaska, Arizona
C-nn for Colorado, Connecticut
Cal-nn for California
D-nn for Delaware
F-nn for Florida
G-nn for Georgia
H-nn for Hawai'i
Idaho-nn for Idaho
Illinois-nn for Illinois (I-nn was used prior to the interstates and survived for years for Illinois 5, locally called "I-5")
Indiana-nn for Indiana
Iowa-nn for Iowa
K-nn for Kansas and Kentucky
LA-nn for Louisiana
M-nn for Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Minnesota, Montana, Missouri
N-nn for Nebraska, Nevada
NJ-nn for New Jersey
NY-nn for New York
NM-nn for New Mexico
NH-nn for New Hampshire
NC-nn for North Carolina
ND-nn for North Dakota
O-nn for Ohio, Oregon
OK-nn for Oklahoma
Penna-nn for Pennsylvania
RI-nn for Rode Island
SC-nn for South Carolina
SD-nn for South Dakota
Tenn-nn for Tennessee
Tex-nn for Texas
U-nn for Utah
V-nn for Vermont, Virginia
WV-nn for West Virginia
Wash-nn for Washington
Wis-nn for Wisconsin (they actually had this on the signs at one time)
Wyo-nn for Wyoming
DC-295 for DC
Many are based on having learned the M-nn for Michigan as a youngster.
Quote from: Brandon on October 08, 2014, 04:06:51 PM
Then you'd probably be constantly corrected by the locals. Don't sweat it too much, I tend to use the following for other states:
A-nn for Alabama, Arkansas, Alaska, Arizona
C-nn for Colorado, Connecticut
Cal-nn for California
D-nn for Delaware
F-nn for Florida
G-nn for Georgia
H-nn for Hawai'i
Idaho-nn for Idaho
Illinois-nn for Illinois (I-nn was used prior to the interstates and survived for years for Illinois 5, locally called "I-5")
Indiana-nn for Indiana
Iowa-nn for Iowa
K-nn for Kansas and Kentucky
LA-nn for Louisiana
M-nn for Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Mississippi, Minnesota, Montana, Missouri
N-nn for Nebraska, Nevada
NJ-nn for New Jersey
NY-nn for New York
NM-nn for New Mexico
NH-nn for New Hampshire
NC-nn for North Carolina
ND-nn for North Dakota
O-nn for Ohio, Oregon
OK-nn for Oklahoma
Penna-nn for Pennsylvania
RI-nn for Rode Island
SC-nn for South Carolina
SD-nn for South Dakota
Tenn-nn for Tennessee
Tex-nn for Texas
U-nn for Utah
V-nn for Vermont, Virginia
WV-nn for West Virginia
Wash-nn for Washington
Wis-nn for Wisconsin (they actually had this on the signs at one time)
Wyo-nn for Wyoming
DC-295 for DC
Many are based on having learned the M-nn for Michigan as a youngster.
I don't see Massachusetts in the list.
OK- for Oklahoma is mostly a roadgeekism. More professional print sources usually use "SH-xx", "S.H. xx" or "Oklahoma xx", while in speech it's "Highway xx".
Because I deal with roads in two states and the federal district, I always use the state abbreviation and number for state-maintained roads.
For U.S. and Interstate routes (many of which can be found in more than one jurisdiction), I try to qualify them so it is clear what road is being discussed.
Interestingly enough, one of the newer PIOs emailed his colleagues about abbreviations for Kentucky state routes. I mentioned in the reply that this topic had come up on a transportation board I frequent.
Here in Dallas people mostly just refer to roads as their number, not really any "I" "US" or "TX" used in conversation ("I work right off of 635", etc.) The only exception is the Woodall Rodgers Freeway, which is referred to as its name as opposed to "366". As if you couldn't tell, I live right near US-75 and whenever I hear the road referred to as "I-75", the perfectionist/roadgeek inside of me gets a little sick. Texas is like Oklahoma in the state highway=SH department, personally I would like TX-xx a bit more. :sombrero:
Remember when Tom From Ohio referred to US routes as "U-xx" and all state highways by the first letter in the state's name ("M-128", "F-84", "T-130")...etc. Everyone would get FURIOUS at him for this.
I'm sure it's different in other parts of the state (like so many things are), but growing up in northern Ohio, we'd call our state highways and US highways "routes" (rhymes with 'out'). For example, State Route 113 would often be called 'Route 113' and US Route 250 would be called 'Route 250.' Or if the route had a local name like Milan Road, etc. it would be called by that name. Also, sometimes the 'Route' name would be dropped in conversation and the highway would be called '113' or 250.' All of these would be acceptable (much like every region in the country has a few variations).
Interstates would be called I-71 or I-75 (and interchangeably '71' or '75'). Interstate 80/90 is called the 'Turnpike.' Also, freeway-standard Ohio State Route 2 is just called "Route 2."
The news media in Albuquerque is largely responsible for not distinguishing a highway as either a state or a federal route. They are pretty good at referring to Interstates as I-40 or I-25, but if it is a US highway like US 60, it is often reported as NM 60. This mistake is common in both newspaper and TV news.
Quote from: sandiaman on November 13, 2014, 04:01:21 PM
The news media in Albuquerque is largely responsible for not distinguishing a highway as either a state or a federal route. They are pretty good at referring to Interstates as I-40 or I-25, but if it is a US highway like US 60, it is often reported as NM 60. This mistake is common in both newspaper and TV news.
...
Quote from: mhh on September 28, 2014, 12:19:02 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on September 28, 2014, 12:12:18 PM
Don't expect a British fellow to call Michigan Route 10 M-10 though, because then he would think it's a Motorway. :biggrin:
Actually, most of M-10 is a "motorway", the John C. Lodge Freeway. :bigass:
And that interchange with I-696 that is pretty much directional including the US-24 interchange with M-10 but isn't signed in a way that those not familiar with the interchange(s) could go from some directions to others.
Quote from: bing101 on September 28, 2014, 06:28:30 PM
Well in parts California roadgeeks will call state routes CA-XX or the Bay Area calls it Highway XX or in Socal its "The XX"
US Routes similar ways The 101 in SoCal, Highway 101 in the Bay Area and in Sacramento US-50.
Interstates SoCal Calls it "the 5 Freeway", Norcal its Highway 880 and in Solano and Sacramento Counties its I-80, I-505 and I-5.
I know some Socal People visiting Norcal and they refer I-505 as the 505 Freeway similar to the way they say the 405 freeway (I-405)
County Routes in California only local name such as "Capitol Expressway" is used for Public ID. Never its official number Such as E-1, E-2, E-3 as it is in Sacramento.
The Sacramemto things are because being near CalTrans HQ people are more informed about roads.
Last night, one of the newsreaders in Detroit referred to the highway on the west side of the state as "I-31."
I wish I could be paid so much to be incompetent. :bigass:
Quote from: renegade on November 14, 2014, 01:41:05 PM
Last night, one of the newsreaders in Detroit referred to the highway on the west side of the state as "I-31."
I wish I could be paid so much to be incompetent. :bigass:
Get a degree in meteorology and work as a weatherman. You can be wrong and still get the big bucks.