From 1939 to 1943, OK 11 followed North Peoria south to E 15th Street to Lewis in south Tulsa and somehow made it to the old Jenks Bridge (the one that is not standing although there are Lally columns in the river from the old bridge. Not the white 19 span pony truss that is open as a pedestrian bridge, as it was built after OK 11 was rerouted.) My question is how did it get from south Lewis to 96th (old Jenks bridge) across the river and beyond. There is no current routing that swings to the east like OK 11 supposedly did. Note that in 1939 OK 11 ended at US 75 (Future US 75A) near Kiefer but in 1940 it ends at the Creek/Tulsa county line. It probably headed south of Jenks along Peoria ("Elm") then west on W 121st Street. Part of today's OK 117 was likely once a part of OK 11.
Does anybody have any more information?
Here are some maps of the Tulsa vicinity:
1939:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu126%2Fbugo348%2Ftulsaarea1939_zps58196611.jpg&hash=294f0b0a1897a2d489115cc4a13f1ab2aef964cd)
1940:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu126%2Fbugo348%2Ftulsaarea1940_zps9e5f8da0.jpg&hash=fb63276b79be92c2cfd4842b0044e89330b323e8)
1943:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi167.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu126%2Fbugo348%2Ftulsaarea1943_zps237471ba.jpg&hash=a7b2f69ae3b0ee425a27fadd6f619cbb46c8d070)
Before Riverside Dr. was extended, Lewis Ave. ended at 91st St. Traffic headed to Jenks would head east on 91st to Delaware Ave, then south on Delaware to the Jenks Bridge at 96th St., all two-lane roads.
Hence the right turn ramp at 91st and Delaware.
Rand Mcnally (http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~247525~5515470:Road-map-of-Oklahoma) implies it used Peoria-71st-Lewis. Topos show there used to be a similar ramp at 71st and Lewis. The inset on the 1939 official (the last to have SH 11 on an inset) may be wrong.
According to http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/memorial/legal/sh11.htm there was apparently another alignment between January 4 and April 4, 1939. SH-11 was truncated on May 20, 1941, with the description "Removal SH 11 from US 75 to the Tulsa County Line".
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 30, 2015, 07:35:20 PM
Quote
Quote from: rte66man on May 29, 2015, 11:01:30 PM
Dream on. That will happen.........NEVER!
Oh yeah? OK 7 Spur...
SH-7 Spur is only a thing because the bonds for the Chickasaw Turnpike specifically authorized a transfer to ODOT. None of Oklahoma's other turnpikes included this language, including the Creek, the first section of which was built as part of the same bond package.
No, this is a fairly clear-cut matter of history, not my personal opinion. Only the Chickasaw Turnpike was given language in its original bond package that allowed it and it alone to be transferred to ODOT and made toll-free. None of the other turnpikes contain this authorization, so they cannot be transferred in such a way without the Legislature passing new legislation to authorize it.
Not that creating SH-7 Spur wasn't an accomplishment in and of itself. OTA voted in 2002 to begin the process of transferring the road. ODOT initially rebuffed the proposal, saying that it was too deteriorated and didn't meet ODOT standards (!). OTA had to close the road for upwards of six months and entirely rehabilitate it at a cost of $12 million, as well as cut ODOT a check for an additional $14 million, before the Transportation Commission voted to accept the transfer in 2011.
Personal opinion time: 2002 to 2011... that's nine years and $26,000,000 to transfer a road that was specifically set up for such a transfer. Now imagine how much longer it would take with the Legislature having to pass enabling legislation, and with roads that are far larger and get far more use than the Chickasaw. ODOT is perpetually hurting for money, so expect them to push back against any attempt to dump the toll roads on them, and expect political opposition from legislators who aren't willing to sacrifice the OTA revenue stream and be forced to find a way to make up that revenue. The most obvious replacement would be increased gas taxes, and if you pay any attention at all to Oklahoma politics you know the way that song finishes.
Don't get me wrong, I would love to see OTA consigned to the dustbin of history, and it's theoretically possible that could happen, but at the present point in time I'm equally likely to go into work Monday and have my boss clap me on the shoulder and hand me a strap of $100 bills.
...Actually, what happened was the voters of Oklahoma passed a referendum in 1954 authorizing OTA to use Turner Turnpike toll revenue to finance other turnpikes rather than discontinue the tolls when the road was paid off.
As far as I'm aware the tribes were not involved at all.
OK route 11 goes through Skiatook, my maternal grandpa's hometown: born in 1922 on the Osage county side on the reservation, he with his family later moved to Kern county CA north of L.A. in the mid 1930s. He moved back to Tulsa around 1970 after 25+ years in the L.A. area with grandma and two children, while the oldest (my Mom) moved back to Southern CA in 2 years after relocation. That route is part of my family history, as much US route 66 has, and the former US 466 from Barstow to Bakersfield. US routes 6, 60, 91, 99 and 395 played a role as well. In Tulsa, the old 66 was either Admiral Place or 11th street (I forgot which one).
Quote from: Mike D boy on June 19, 2015, 11:10:46 AM
OK route 11 goes through Skiatook, my maternal grandpa's hometown: born in 1922 on the Osage county side on the reservation, he with his family later moved to Kern county CA north of L.A. in the mid 1930s. He moved back to Tulsa around 1970 after 25+ years in the L.A. area with grandma and two children, while the oldest (my Mom) moved back to Southern CA in 2 years after relocation. That route is part of my family history, as much US route 66 has, and the former US 466 from Barstow to Bakersfield. US routes 6, 60, 91, 99 and 395 played a role as well. In Tulsa, the old 66 was either Admiral Place or 11th street (I forgot which one).
66 originally followed 193rd from Catoosa, headed west on 11th, then north on Mingo, west on Admiral, south on Lewis, then through a maze of downtown streets...later it was reroute to follow 11th all the way through town.
There are US 66 websites with detailed maps. Original US 66 turned south on Lewis and then west on one of the numbered streets (I can't remember which one) that is now a dead end because it was cut off by I-444.
Quote from: bugo on June 20, 2015, 09:50:57 PM
There are US 66 websites with detailed maps. Original US 66 turned south on Lewis and then west on one of the numbered streets (I can't remember which one) that is now a dead end because it was cut off by I-444.
http://www.okhistory.org/shpo/thematic/rt66roadbed.pdf
Skip down a dozen or so pages to get to the maps.
Quote from: rte66man on June 21, 2015, 08:38:59 PM
Quote from: bugo on June 20, 2015, 09:50:57 PM
There are US 66 websites with detailed maps. Original US 66 turned south on Lewis and then west on one of the numbered streets (I can't remember which one) that is now a dead end because it was cut off by I-444.
http://www.okhistory.org/shpo/thematic/rt66roadbed.pdf
Skip down a dozen or so pages to get to the maps.
Thanks, 66. This is an interesting document.
Quote from: bugo on June 21, 2015, 10:25:39 PM
Quote from: rte66man on June 21, 2015, 08:38:59 PM
Quote from: bugo on June 20, 2015, 09:50:57 PM
There are US 66 websites with detailed maps. Original US 66 turned south on Lewis and then west on one of the numbered streets (I can't remember which one) that is now a dead end because it was cut off by I-444.
I was working for OHS when this came out.
http://www.okhistory.org/shpo/thematic/rt66roadbed.pdf
Skip down a dozen or so pages to get to the maps.
Thanks, 66. This is an interesting document.