Looking on Google Maps around the US-Canada border, and most particularly between Québec and Vermont and New York (there are far fewer in the West), there are a lot of tiny local roads that run up to the border, stop, then immediately resume their course on the other side.
Based on their trajectories, it seems obvious that these pairs are each parts of a single, severed road.
My question is, does anyone know the background of how, when, why such severings took place? It seems safe to assume that a lightly-used crossing would be closed, but I am curious if these were all staffed crossings, and if they were closed gradually, en masse, or what.
There are some listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canada%E2%80%93United_States_border_crossings#Closed_road_crossings
More here about US 75: http://usends.com/70-79/075/075.html
hot dang, I wish I had known about the old Pigeon River crossing. that was once a terminus of US-61. I was there in Dec 2012 and didn't explore the area well enough.
Quote from: NE2 on October 21, 2014, 06:03:29 PM
There are some listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canada%E2%80%93United_States_border_crossings#Closed_road_crossings
More here about US 75: http://usends.com/70-79/075/075.html
Thank you, that's way more interesting detail than I would have expected.
A lot of these weren't staffed. Take this town straddling the border in Vermont (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0081462,-72.097501,15z). Really screwed things up in that small town when Homeland Security decided that everyone had to go through customs. Hell, the library (mostly in Canada) has an entrance in Vermont. Certainly isn't the only town like that. This here is why the border should be open, but I digress.
Derby Line is horseshit. if little Johnny bounces a ball into the neighboring country, does he have to fill out export forms?
during my only visit to Derby Line, I walked three feet into Canada to better compose a photo of a STOP sign, and was detained by the US border patrol for four hours. their last words to me were "stay away from Canada!"
right.
Why does Derby Line put up with Homeland Stupidity's nonsense?
If I was the mayor or police chief of that town, I'd have Homeland Stupidity arrested. (Do they have a mayor?)
This is why I support the Community Rights Movement.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 21, 2014, 06:32:00 PM
hot dang, I wish I had known about the old Pigeon River crossing. that was once a terminus of US-61. I was there in Dec 2012 and didn't explore the area well enough.
I knew about it from this website:
http://www.deadpioneer.com/routes/US61/historicus61se/oldborderroad/oldborderroad.html
It makes me want to visit Minnesota just to drive this stretch of old highway.
At the north end of US 75, it appears that you can walk a few feet past the border monument into Manitoba, until you get to the barricade blocking the road. While I saw nobody on either side of the border watching me, I worried that there might be remote surveillance, and I might get hassled by CBP. The I-29 crossing into the U.S. from Winnipeg was my most unpleasant encounter ever with CBP (thorough secondary vehicle search), which I didn't wish to repeat, so I just drove right up to the border monument then turned back.
I might add that there's no end sign marking the exact terminus of US 75, so it doesn't necessarily reach the border monument.
Quote from: oscar on October 21, 2014, 09:04:26 PM
I might add that there's no end sign marking the exact terminus of US 75, so it doesn't necessarily reach the border monument.
As far as I'm aware neither the state nor AASHTO has modified their definition of it, so it still officially ends at the border.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 22, 2014, 01:30:51 AM
Quote from: oscar on October 21, 2014, 09:04:26 PM
I might add that there's no end sign marking the exact terminus of US 75, so it doesn't necessarily reach the border monument.
As far as I'm aware neither the state nor AASHTO has modified their definition of it, so it still officially ends at the border.
Clinched Highway Mapping puts the end about a hundred meters or so south of the border, rather than right on the border. Maybe MnDOT shapefiles, or other official route definition data, exclude from the route the old U.S. customs area.
MnDOT's logpoint still has US 75 up to the border. I'm not sure why CHM has the end short of the border...wasn't that way when I initially created the Minnesota files.
Quote from: cl94 on October 21, 2014, 07:49:49 PM
A lot of these weren't staffed. Take this town straddling the border in Vermont (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0081462,-72.097501,15z). Really screwed things up in that small town when Homeland Security decided that everyone had to go through customs. Hell, the library (mostly in Canada) has an entrance in Vermont. Certainly isn't the only town like that. This here is why the border should be open, but I digress.
How did unstaffed crossings work?
And what, exactly, goes on here (http://goo.gl/maps/pm5xt)?
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
How did unstaffed crossings work?
You crossed, and nobody cared. Before 9/11, customs was just a formality, but then the federal government decided that the existence of Canada was a security risk.
Quote
And what, exactly, goes on here (http://goo.gl/maps/pm5xt)?
Presumably the road is treated as American for border crossing purposes since there's nothing on the Canadian side except half a cemetery and a turnaround where the pavement ends.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 21, 2014, 07:49:49 PM
A lot of these weren't staffed. Take this town straddling the border in Vermont (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0081462,-72.097501,15z). Really screwed things up in that small town when Homeland Security decided that everyone had to go through customs. Hell, the library (mostly in Canada) has an entrance in Vermont. Certainly isn't the only town like that. This here is why the border should be open, but I digress.
How did unstaffed crossings work?
....
There's an unstaffed crossing in the Northwest Angle that requires you to report via videophone. There's no Street View, but you can find various YouTube clips of the border crossing if you do a Google search for "northwest angle customs."
Quote from: vdeane on October 23, 2014, 12:51:20 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
How did unstaffed crossings work?
You crossed, and nobody cared. Before 9/11, customs was just a formality, but then the federal government decided that the existence of Canada was a security risk.
So odd, because they still gave the third degree at the staffed crossings before 9/11. I was seldom made to feel it was "just a formality."
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 23, 2014, 01:34:41 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 21, 2014, 07:49:49 PM
A lot of these weren't staffed. Take this town straddling the border in Vermont (https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0081462,-72.097501,15z). Really screwed things up in that small town when Homeland Security decided that everyone had to go through customs. Hell, the library (mostly in Canada) has an entrance in Vermont. Certainly isn't the only town like that. This here is why the border should be open, but I digress.
How did unstaffed crossings work? ....
There's an unstaffed crossing in the Northwest Angle that requires you to report via videophone. There's no Street View, but you can find various YouTube clips of the border crossing if you do a Google search for "northwest angle customs."
On the flip side, the small airport on Pelee Island, Ontario I visited last week (an "international airport" only because it's so close to Ohio) had a sign instructing people flying in from outside Canada to call Canadian border authorities immediately on arrival (just a regular toll-free phone number, no videophone) unless they belong to Canada's CANPASS pre-clearance program. In the summer, there's a staffed border inspection facility at the island's ferry terminal for people and vehicles arriving on the seasonal ferry service from Sandusky, Ohio; summer arrivals at the airport may be instructed to go there for inspection.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2014, 01:34:45 PM
Quote from: vdeane on October 23, 2014, 12:51:20 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
How did unstaffed crossings work?
You crossed, and nobody cared. Before 9/11, customs was just a formality, but then the federal government decided that the existence of Canada was a security risk.
So odd, because they still gave the third degree at the staffed crossings before 9/11. I was seldom made to feel it was "just a formality."
Certainly was that way in New York. Show your license and you were on your way. Could take anything across, including take-out food that you're bringing home from the other country.
Quote from: vdeane on October 23, 2014, 12:51:20 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 23, 2014, 12:28:01 PM
How did unstaffed crossings work?
You crossed, and nobody cared. Before 9/11, customs was just a formality, but then the federal government decided that the existence of Canada was a security risk.
It doesn't help that a lot of people after 9/11 for whatever reason arrived at the conclusion that the hijackers entered the US via Canada. This turned out to not be true but many Americans continue to erroneously believe that it is, including the former secretary of homeland security herself and a former presidential candidate (http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mccain-defends-napolitano-insists-9-11-perpetrators-came-from-canada-1.830149). :banghead:
To be fair, though, while none of
those terrorists entered the US from Canada, there have been
other documented instances of nefarious individuals attempting to enter the US from Canada but getting caught by CBP.
You also then do have the issue of home-grown threats in both countries. The man responsible for yesterday's shootings was a Canadian citizen, native born.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 24, 2014, 12:09:45 AM
You also then do have the issue of home-grown threats in both countries.
In the United States, homegrown terrorism is a far more serious threat than international terrorism. Of course, The Media ignores this threat.
Homegrown terrorism should be a priority front and center by every law enforcement agency in the land.
Quote from: Duke87 on October 24, 2014, 12:09:45 AMYou also then do have the issue of home-grown threats in both countries. The man responsible for yesterday's shootings was a Canadian citizen, native born.
But unless an organisation like RCMP, CIA, FBI, Homeland Security or whatever had flags on him, there's no reason why he couldn't have attacked targets south of the St Lawrence, rather than Ottowa.
Home-grown terrorism is clearly a threat that US officials must take seriously else there would have been more attacks that reached implementation. The Media, of course, will ignore it - even in the UK, which has had 4 or 5 attacks that were implemented by home grown (two falling flat on their face - 22/7 and Glasgow Airport and two that very much shocked the nation - 7/7 and the beheading of soldier Lee Rigby as he walked along the street) it is mostly ignored save for just after an attack (other than occasionally the publishing of a figure of foiled attempted attacks and thanking the police and security services for stopping them).
It's a good idea for the media to ignore it - alienating those of brown skin by stirring up fear of Islamist terror is going to help recruit more people to the terror groups. Of course they aren't all poor disaffected young men (one of the Glasgow Airport attackers was a middle-aged doctor, for instance).
Quote from: bandit957 on October 24, 2014, 11:23:13 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 24, 2014, 12:09:45 AM
You also then do have the issue of home-grown threats in both countries.
In the United States, homegrown terrorism is a far more serious threat than international terrorism. Of course, The Media ignores this threat.
Homegrown terrorism should be a priority front and center by every law enforcement agency in the land.
Why is Cliven Bundy not in jail awaiting trial for terrorism and treason?
Is the story about the Muslim who beheaded a woman in Oklahoma getting much national media attention? It got a lot here at first.
I found it rather sad when I was watching Canadian television (CBC news) in mid-2006. I learned that the Canadian border guards were going to be armed for the first time. Why? Mind you, this is well after the whole 9/11 hysteria here in the US. It was because they were afraid of AMERICANS! Americans had been pulling guns on them, there had been police shootouts, and more. We were the "terrorists", not some other country. Seeing that on their news did not make me feel proud of my country in the least.
The CPB can go to a very hot place as far as I'm concerned, at least when it comes to their internal checkpoints. I was pulled to the side recently at the I-5 San Onofre checkpoint while on my motorcycle. They said I shouldn't have split lanes past the stopped cars (very much legal in California) and even wanted to have my bike sniffed for ????? Asked me where I was going to and what a sticker was on my bike. The only information I gave them was my citizenship. They don't seem to like the US Constitution and the 4th Amendment.
I bring this up as they apparently have a policy to not "interdict" things as much at the border, but within a certain distance to the border. If security is such a concern for them, why let people past the gate and up to the house windows? Why not keep them far from those windows instead?
Quote from: bandit957 on October 24, 2014, 11:23:13 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 24, 2014, 12:09:45 AM
You also then do have the issue of home-grown threats in both countries.
In the United States, homegrown terrorism is a far more serious threat than international terrorism. Of course, The Media ignores this threat.
Homegrown terrorism should be a priority front and center by every law enforcement agency in the land.
It is. They take a photograph of every piece of mail ever sent now, and scan our phone, texts, and email. That's not enough?
Quote from: bandit957 on October 24, 2014, 11:23:13 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on October 24, 2014, 12:09:45 AM
You also then do have the issue of home-grown threats in both countries.
In the United States, homegrown terrorism is a far more serious threat than international terrorism. Of course, The Media ignores this threat.
Homegrown terrorism should be a priority front and center by every law enforcement agency in the land.
How many rights are you willing to give up for that? One of our "Founding Fathers" is quoted as saying - "Those that would give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither and will lose both." I certainly am unwilling to give those up. I think that to do so spits on the graves of all those that have died to help preserve them. Terrorism and Tyranny are not that far apart.
Quote from: cl94 on October 23, 2014, 03:26:20 PM
Certainly was that way in New York. Show your license and you were on your way. Could take anything across, including take-out food that you're bringing home from the other country.
Yeah, when I was little I didn't even know the difference between customs and toll booths! In my mind, they were both places where you had to wait in line, stop, and interact with someone in a booth. My Dad even once asked CBSA for driving directions because he didn't feel like taking ON 401! My brain didn't really get the concept of what a foreign country was either (and it doesn't help that the only place outside of the US I had ever been to before 2009 was Ontario).
I am starting to wonder if they treated border state residents differently in the pre-9/11 days, given that we're from NY and Pete from Boston is from MA. Of course, even back then they reserved the right to give disrespectful travelers a very hard time.
I also had another thought recently regarding the difference in how US and Canadian customs treat travelers: they have entirely different missions. The mission of CBSA is to welcome immigrants/tourists while turning away those who are trying to enter illegally. The mission of CBP, on the other hand, is to fight terrorism while allowing "legitimate" traffic through. It's essentially "innocent until proven guilty" verses "guilty until proven innocent" (quite visible in that Canada will ask one to justify their travels if they think you're lying for some reason, while the US almost always will grill you on something).
Quote from: sdmichael on October 24, 2014, 12:31:53 PM
I bring this up as they apparently have a policy to not "interdict" things as much at the border, but within a certain distance to the border. If security is such a concern for them, why let people past the gate and up to the house windows? Why not keep them far from those windows instead?
Because then they wouldn't be able to use CBP as a backdoor federal police force.
I do recall hearing it was easier for folks in border states. Also, I started driving to Canada when I was 18. The border agents, like cops, suspect know kids are usually up to something (whether bringing back undeclared liquor, hiding a joint somewhere, etc.), and to be fair, the main motivation for going that far was being able to go out to bars and clubs.
And they still break my balls a little over what I'm going to Canada for ("had a great time camping at Mont-Orford, thought I'd try Mont-Mégantic" is not really satisfying enough). I've gotten "Do you know anyone in Canada?" "You're coming back here already?" And I'm a very polite individual in my public interactions, very happy to answer their questions. Perhaps I don't act scared enough.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 24, 2014, 01:29:33 PM
I do recall hearing it was easier for folks in border states. Also, I started driving to Canada when I was 18. The border agents, like cops, suspect know kids are usually up to something (whether bringing back undeclared liquor, hiding a joint somewhere, etc.), and to be fair, the main motivation for going that far was being able to go out to bars and clubs.
And they still break my balls a little over what I'm going to Canada for ("had a great time camping at Mont-Orford, thought I'd try Mont-Mégantic" is not really satisfying enough). I've gotten "Do you know anyone in Canada?" "You're coming back here already?" And I'm a very polite individual in my public interactions, very happy to answer their questions. Perhaps I don't act scared enough.
I have, so far, found Canadian border officials to be pleasant. They do ask a lot of questions sometimes, but I am traveling to a foreign country, so I expect it. One of the last trips to Canada, I was on a bicycle trip. I was only staying there as long as it took me to bicycle back to the US (day one of my tour was Vancouver, BC to Bellingham, WA). They were initially confused about the answer I gave them but cleared it up easily. Even so, they were still friendly and added "Welcome to Canada".
When returning to the US, I have been treated very poorly. I've been accused of lying about where I stayed and more. In one instance, they went through my bags, found a paper - which I said was a receipt for a hostel I stayed at in Seattle a few days earlier. In Canada, I had stayed with a friend. They took that as I was lying and stayed somewhere else in Canada... they are not friendly in the least and really have no reason to treat people so poorly other than a power trip for themselves. Never did get a "Welcome to the US"... unless being grilled like a criminal suspect is now the way we as a country welcome people.
Ditto. I've always been warmly welcomed to Canada, but rudely treated by U.S. officials. Every. Single. Time. (Over 40 times in the past two years alone.)
Quote from: Sherman Cahal on October 24, 2014, 02:33:25 PM
Ditto. I've always been warmly welcomed to Canada, but rudely treated by U.S. officials. Every. Single. Time. (Over 40 times in the past two years alone.)
I've had mostly ok experiences with US customs, but I've seen really poor treatment by them. The worst was a bus trip through Highgate Springs where the agent angrily told the busload of passengers to prepare to have him take his bad day out on them. "Welcome to the United States, and fuck you."
Quote from: Sherman Cahal on October 24, 2014, 02:33:25 PM
Ditto. I've always been warmly welcomed to Canada, but rudely treated by U.S. officials. Every. Single. Time. (Over 40 times in the past two years alone.)
I don't think I've ever encountered a
rude US customs employee. I wouldn't say most of them are particularly friendly, but I've never found them rude. I remember the very first time I went to Canada, a day trip to Campobello Island during a vacation to Maine with my parents and brother when I was maybe eight years old, I asked my mom why the customs agent in Lubec was being so mean to my father. She said he wasn't being mean, just being "cold and official."
They certainly don't go out of their way to be helpful. I almost left my camera at passport control at JFK after flying in from London on the aircraft seen in my avatar (so I really did not want to lose those pictures). The immigration agent didn't say anything and kind of smirked when I came running back over and grabbed it.
On the other hand, on our most recent trip over the Thousand Islands Bridge southbound a few years back, the customs asked what my personalized license plate means and, after I told him, he was more interested in talking about Concorde than about our trip to Canada.
I got a hard time simply for not having anything to declare. I've also gotten asked who owned my car a couple times (and it's worth noting that I have never actually owned a vehicle I crossed the border with; my last car was still in my Mom's name at the time of those crossings, and my current car is leased because I couldn't afford to buy it outright (the previous car had over $2000 in needed repairs to get it in a state where it would be safe/reliable enough to drive out of town)). My last trip they even grilled me on my employment history for some reason.
The above is all from US customs. Canadian customs once sent me to secondary for an unknown reason (probably inexperience with customs combined with driving all the way to Montreal from Potsdam via the Ogdensburg-Prescott Bridge (not the most direct route) simply to meet up with someone from here for the first time for a few hours and nothing else) but otherwise has been pretty easy. One time they did ask me about college, but that made sense since I was coming from Potsdam while my enhanced driver's license had a Rochester address (they also asked if I had any electronics, but I was a computer science major so at least it wasn't totally random). Last time it was almost like having Nexus because they only asked a couple questions which didn't even include the usual "where are you from" and "where are you going".
Both sides have acted professionally in all of my dealings with them (the privilege resulting from being a cute young woman, perhaps?).
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 24, 2014, 02:53:40 PM
On the other hand, on our most recent trip over the Thousand Islands Bridge southbound a few years back, the customs asked what my personalized license plate means and, after I told him, he was more interested in talking about Concorde than about our trip to Canada.
Thousand Islands was the last time I have ever come back from Canada and had a friendly official. since I have a green card, she was looking at that, and asked me how long I had been in the US. I honestly answered "about 20 seconds? I don't remember how far back the border is." - and she actually burst out laughing, asked me for a brief clarification ("oh, you mean 1986.") - then promptly gave me my documents back, and sent me on my way.
this was in 2006; approximately 12-15 Canada to US crossings ago.
on the Alcan in 2010, my friend and I got one that gave us the nine yards, but actually explained why he felt the need to do so. "usually it's older people going off their retirement savings that make this kind of trip that you're doing. and they do it in the summer, not the winter. and they don't enter Canada from Washington less than 48 hours before. so I have to ask you a more thorough set of questions." he rambled on a bit more, saying "I wish I could drive the Alcan, but I just don't have the money". apparently, even a winter-hazard outpost doesn't pay all that well. I told him he should save up and do it.
I never joke with them, instead just maintaining a pleasant yet serious demeanor. Probably out of fear of another "having a bad day" incident. Best poker face at all times.
And learn to shut up! I was asked once if I'd ever been before a judge. Telling them that I was a witness once was not a useful answer in light of their clear desire to know if I'd been in trouble with the law, so I let it go. When asked "Are you bringing anything back you acquired in Canada," I don't list the plastic water bottles I'm planning to recycle.
The friendliest US border guard I've met was in Calais, Maine. He was a young, chill guy whi told us why he was asking what he was asking, and let us know he just didn't want us to get in any trouble. I appreciated that.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 24, 2014, 03:42:26 PM
I never joke with them, instead just maintaining a pleasant yet serious demeanor.
I was seriously thinking that '20 seconds' was the right answer ... due to nerves, border crossings never get me at my most intelligent.
QuoteWhen asked "Are you bringing anything back you acquired in Canada," I don't list the plastic water bottles I'm planning to recycle.
I've been known to declare tanks of gasoline and candy bars.
Quote from: vdeane on October 24, 2014, 02:57:01 PM
I got a hard time simply for not having anything to declare. I've also gotten asked who owned my car a couple times (and it's worth noting that I have never actually owned a vehicle I crossed the border with; my last car was still in my Mom's name at the time of those crossings, and my current car is leased because I couldn't afford to buy it outright (the previous car had over $2000 in needed repairs to get it in a state where it would be safe/reliable enough to drive out of town)). My last trip they even grilled me on my employment history for some reason.
On that trip back from Canada where they grilled me about where I had stayed... they even asked me if I owned a car! I was traveling by train and I haven't owned a car since August 2011 (trip was in November 2011). Rude to be sure. WTF sort of a question is "Do you own a car?" Do I have to own one to reenter my own country by train?
Quote from: sdmichael on October 24, 2014, 04:04:34 PM
On that trip back from Canada where they grilled me about where I had stayed... they even asked me if I owned a car! I was traveling by train and I haven't owned a car since August 2011 (trip was in November 2011). Rude to be sure. WTF sort of a question is "Do you own a car?" Do I have to own one to reenter my own country by train?
not owning a car is un-American. stay in Canada, you weird hippie!
I think some of the questions are just to see how you react, whether they trip you up and whether you seem to be inventing answers.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 24, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
I think some of the questions are just to see how you react, whether they trip you up and whether you seem to be inventing answers.
They also compare answers from when you entered the country. Tell them the same thing going there and back and you won't raise any red flags. Change your story and they'll give you hell.
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 24, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
I think some of the questions are just to see how you react, whether they trip you up and whether you seem to be inventing answers.
I'm terrible at inventing answers, and sometimes even stumble when coming up with a correct but non-pedantic one - so I'll just respond with the literal truth. "20 seconds" came out much more smoothly than "um, err... since June 3, 1986."
Quote from: cl94 on October 24, 2014, 04:19:50 PM
They also compare answers from when you entered the country. Tell them the same thing going there and back and you won't raise any red flags. Change your story and they'll give you hell.
the US and Canada very rarely give exit interviews. I recall only three in the US that I've ever had: it was going into Mexico each time. Columbus, NM, Naco, AZ, and Sasabe, AZ.
no traffic coming into the US, so the US officers stopped me and asked me a few questions, as they had nothing else to do.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 24, 2014, 04:22:11 PM
Quote from: cl94 on October 24, 2014, 04:19:50 PM
They also compare answers from when you entered the country. Tell them the same thing going there and back and you won't raise any red flags. Change your story and they'll give you hell.
the US and Canada very rarely give exit interviews. I recall only three in the US that I've ever had: it was going into Mexico each time. Columbus, NM, Naco, AZ, and Sasabe, AZ.
no traffic coming into the US, so the US officers stopped me and asked me a few questions, as they had nothing else to do.
Computer systems are linked. Guy in Canada types in what you say and the US guy sees it when you come back.
Everyone who crosses the US/Canadian border has an exit interview - it just happens to be conducted by the other country. Didn't know they essentially shared transcripts though. How do they type that fast?
I'm also not very good with the tendency of customs agents to phrase questions in odd ways. I would NEVER think that "have you ever appeared before a judge" meant "have you ever been in trouble with the law" for example. And I tend to have a hard time interacting with people when I'm nervous, which I always am with customs. Authority that has power over me makes me nervous even in the best of circumstances (I'm VERY fiercely independent, plus I have an anxious temperament to begin with, and I don't trust any authority to have my best interests at heart), and customs agents have a VERY broad set of authority to make your day very bad if they feel like it. My heart tends to start beating very fast when I'm in line and it's always a HUGE relief when they finally let me go.
1995hoo put it best when he said these questions seem to be largely to see how you react. In this way, it is like most personal interaction–people judge at least as much how you say things as they do what you say. Smiling and looking them in the eye is far easier in the long run than going over to some building to be grilled further or having the car searched for basically acting nervous, neither of which is particularly uncommon. It is a very practical skill to nurture. Remember, nothing to hide means nothing to be afraid of, and moreover you're a citizen and their job is to protect you, not to "allow" you into the country you're part owner of.
Quote from: vdeane on October 24, 2014, 06:40:26 PM
Everyone who crosses the US/Canadian border has an exit interview - it just happens to be conducted by the other country. Didn't know they essentially shared transcripts though.
I should've figured that.
QuoteHow do they type that fast?
they don't need to. they just need to get the entry info typed in by the time you are done visiting the country. if you're in the country a week, then the border guards have one week to type up the report.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 24, 2014, 06:51:27 PMnothing to hide means nothing to be afraid of
this statement has the severe assumption that all law enforcement has your best interests in mind at all times. ideally this would be the case, but it is far from true in reality.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 24, 2014, 06:56:14 PM
QuoteHow do they type that fast?
they don't need to. they just need to get the entry info typed in by the time you are done visiting the country. if you're in the country a week, then the border guards have one week to type up the report.
And they can remember verbatim what you said for longer than it takes for the next car to pull up to the booth?
I've had a couple of interesting encounters with border crossings in both directions. In general Canadian officials have been more friendly than US.
Once my father in law nearly got us pulled over coming back into the US for replying "Nothing but memories" when asked what we were bringing back with us.
The most interesting was when we decided spur of the moment to cross to Sarnia. The guard wanted our kids' birth certificates. He said he was protecting us, that we'd appreciate it if someone was trying to steal our kids. Then my wife remembered she happened to still have my daughter's birth cert in her purse from registering my daughter at school. He looked at it, and wanted to know which kid it was for. Err, the girl, who looks to be much closer to 5 years old than 2?
Only later did I think of a great comeback. Just try to separate our boys from us, and they'd have screamed bloody murder!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 24, 2014, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 24, 2014, 06:51:27 PMnothing to hide means nothing to be afraid of
this statement has the severe assumption that all law enforcement has your best interests in mind at all times. ideally this would be the case, but it is far from true in reality.
It doesn't assume that. It means that if you project the idea that you have something to hide or something to be afraid of, chances are the person on the other end is going to believe you. You may not ultimately have control over whether they do or they don't, but it certainly isn't in your interest to help them there, whether with law enforcement or anyone else.
Oddly, I've always had much better luck with CBP than CBSA. I get secondaried pretty often going into Canada, ranging from me just sitting in the office real quick while they run a more detailed warrant check or something to having to empty my pockets and surrender my laptop for search. Of about 10 times crossing into Canada since I've gone to college, I think I've not been secondaried twice. Once I was going to a concert in Vancouver and had the ticket and it was very clear why I was going. The other time was a cross country roadtrip, and crossing from Michigan to use 401 to get to northern New Hampshire was a pretty reasonable excuse.
I've only been secondaried once re-entering the USA- on the trip I just mentioned from Quebec into Vermont at about 2 AM in 2007, and they were certain we were smuggling alcohol (we were all 18). Even then it was just a quick search of the coolers we had (cross country road trip) and the guy was amused we had good bottled Root Beer from Wisconsin on us.
The last three times I've re-entered the US, I've been waved through in less than a minute by friendly border guards.
If they're sharing transcripts, that makes sense- the USA sees "Canada checked this guy out good, he's not a risk" and my story lines up, so that's good. For whatever reason I'm always more confident at re-entry anyway. It's easier for me to say what I did out of the country than what I'm going to do, and I keep all my receipts in Canada anyway just so they can see where I've traveled and what I've done if they are interested, but I've never had to show them.
That being said, Canada is usually polite. When I crossed last year and was subject to a laptop search (I was nervous at the border and gave them route numbers for my drive, which they straight up told me was sketchy), the guy finally said "you're just a guy who likes road trips, aren't you?" and I said "yes" and he gave me my passport back. As he walked away, he said "now you have a story!"
I crossed in 2008 heading to Vancouver though where my car was searched and I had to empty my pockets and got the American-style "where's the drugs? just tell me where they are and it'll be okay" routine. That was my only rude encounter with CBSA.
Quote from: GaryV on October 24, 2014, 07:03:45 PM
I've had a couple of interesting encounters with border crossings in both directions. In general Canadian officials have been more friendly than US.
Once my father in law nearly got us pulled over coming back into the US for replying "Nothing but memories" when asked what we were bringing back with us.
The most interesting was when we decided spur of the moment to cross to Sarnia. The guard wanted our kids' birth certificates. He said he was protecting us, that we'd appreciate it if someone was trying to steal our kids. Then my wife remembered she happened to still have my daughter's birth cert in her purse from registering my daughter at school. He looked at it, and wanted to know which kid it was for. Err, the girl, who looks to be much closer to 5 years old than 2?
Only later did I think of a great comeback. Just try to separate our boys from us, and they'd have screamed bloody murder!
This is funny in retrospect, but not funny at the time. Back in the early 1990s I worked in downtown Detroit. One night, 3 of my work buddies and I decided to go over to Windsor and check out the, uh, "adult entertainment." Returning to Detroit via the tunnel, we pulled up to the customs inspection. First question is the usual, "What county are you a citizen of?" To which my friend Bert, who was the driver, replied with a perfectly deadpan face, "Cuba."
My first thought was, "We're all going to the slammer." But then, the customs guy gets this funny look on his face, peeks into the car at the rest of us, and says, "All of you?" Bert, it turned out, had emigrated to the U.S as a child along with his family shortly after the revolution. But none of us knew that then. He had a yellow resident alien card that had "POLITICAL ASYLUM" in big letters on it. As soon as the agent saw that, he was all smiles and chatted with Bert for a couple of minutes about the state of Cuban affairs. Then he said to the rest of us, "I'm going to assume you guys aren't Cuban," laughed and waved us by.
Quote from: GaryV on October 24, 2014, 06:57:43 PM
And they can remember verbatim what you said for longer than it takes for the next car to pull up to the booth?
that's why there's always that short delay, is my guess. how long does it take for them to type 'in Canada for 4 days, visiting family in Toronto, WAS DARK-SKINNED SO GIVE HIM GRIEF ON HIS RETURN TO USA'.
My visit to Canadian customs on I-87 was very pleasant. The officer was friendly and welcomed me and asked if I knew French well enough to read the signs (I'm fluent reading French). The US border patrol was a complete ass. Gave me hell because I was born in Oklahoma and had a North Carolina license. I guess we have to live where we were born? 60 seconds leaving the us, 45 minutes to get back in.
iPhone
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on October 25, 2014, 11:26:13 AM
My visit to Canadian customs on I-87 was very pleasant. The officer was friendly and welcomed me and asked if I knew French well enough to read the signs (I'm fluent reading French). The US border patrol was a complete ass. Gave me hell because I was born in Oklahoma and had a North Carolina license. I guess we have to live where we were born? 60 seconds leaving the us, 45 minutes to get back in.
I was once living in Mass., crossing the border with someone from NJ, in her NJ-registered car. We were departing from Mass. This was enough to get the US Customs agent really annoyed.
I swear, sometimes you'd think every day was their first.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on October 25, 2014, 11:45:07 AM
Quote from: Arkansastravelguy on October 25, 2014, 11:26:13 AM
My visit to Canadian customs on I-87 was very pleasant. The officer was friendly and welcomed me and asked if I knew French well enough to read the signs (I'm fluent reading French). The US border patrol was a complete ass. Gave me hell because I was born in Oklahoma and had a North Carolina license. I guess we have to live where we were born? 60 seconds leaving the us, 45 minutes to get back in.
I was once living in Mass., crossing the border with someone from NJ, in her NJ-registered car. We were departing from Mass. This was enough to get the US Customs agent really annoyed.
I swear, sometimes you'd think every day was their first.
I drove into Canada from Montana while I was living in Montana in a rental car with Washington plates once. That blew both CBSA's and CBP's minds. I had a hunch that might be a problem when I picked it up in Great Falls and almost went back in to ask for another car but decided that was stupid. In hindsight, I should have. CBP even said "If you rented it in Montana and you live in Montana, why does it have Washington plates?"