QuoteOrange lane markings to be used in Zoo Interchange
Improved visibility is goal of orange lane marking test project
The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) will apply orange reflective epoxy paint within a I-94 westbound work zone just west of the Zoo Interchange (Zoo IC) Tuesday night and Wednesday night, weather permitting. The traditional white and yellow lane and edge markings will be replaced with an approved orange paint which is being tested in the Zoo IC with the goal to provide more clearly defined lanes in the construction zone. Last year motorists at times experienced difficult conditions in winter work zones as salt residue on the roadway surface left the traditional white lane markings very challenging to pick out.
Orange reflective epoxy paint has been used in Canada, New Zealand and in Europe but not previously in the U.S. The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) has granted the Zoo IC team the permission to use the orange paint in test areas in at least three separate locations along I-94 both east and west of the actual Zoo IC. WisDOT will track the performance of the paint under diverse weather and time of day conditions and will also be monitoring the reaction of motorists to the orange lane markings. A survey will follow after the lane markings have been in place to gather further reaction and opinions from motorists using this portion of the freeway system.
source: WisDOT News Release (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/news/releases/285-nr.htm)
Ontario uses them for construction zones.
Quote from: Brandon on December 01, 2014, 04:36:33 PM
Ontario uses them for construction zones.
Yes. I think it's pretty useful. Highlights that the markings are temporary. IMO, the US as a whole should adopt orange for construction zones. Make sure people know they're in an active work zone by changing the lane markings.
I don't like that both the yellow and white lines change to orange. I drove through a zone like that in Canada, and the absence of that yellow line on my left assuring me I was going in the right direction was really disconcerting, far more than I would have thought beforehand.
That said, I like the idea of specific temporary markings, but something should be done to distinguish the white from the yellow. What, though, I have to admit I don't know.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 01, 2014, 06:06:18 PM
I don't like that both the yellow and white lines change to orange. I drove through a zone like that in Canada, and the absence of that yellow line on my left assuring me I was going in the right direction was really disconcerting, far more than I would have thought beforehand.
That said, I like the idea of specific temporary markings, but something should be done to distinguish the white from the yellow. What, though, I have to admit I don't know.
Remember that the yellow-white system is only common in the western hemisphere (minus Chile). Rest of the world uses white for almost everything, with Norway being a notable exception. They seem to be fine.
For a while in Ontario, the MTO seemed to have some reluctance in using orange on roads with opposing traffic flow, but orange line paint has become increasingly common in those situations as well.
Quote from: cl94 on December 01, 2014, 06:41:41 PM
Remember that the yellow-white system is only common in the western hemisphere (minus Chile). Rest of the world uses white for almost everything, with Norway being a notable exception. They seem to be fine.
Indeed, here white is used for all markings, except construction/temporary markings which are yellow. I've never once felt uncertain if I'm going in the right direction.
Quote from: cl94 on December 01, 2014, 06:41:41 PM
Remember that the yellow-white system is only common in the western hemisphere (minus Chile). Rest of the world uses white for almost everything, with Norway being a notable exception. They seem to be fine.
True. But, here, it's the standard, and I, for one, rely on it quite a bit. And overall, I think the loss of information that comes from only uses orange lines is something to be avoided.
We very briefly discussed this as to Ontario a few years ago. I liked the idea then and still do.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7496.msg168691#msg168691
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 01, 2014, 07:09:10 PM
We very briefly discussed this as to Ontario a few years ago. I liked the idea then and still do.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7496.msg168691#msg168691
Don't get me wrong. I like the idea too. I just think something needs to be done to distinguish the yellow from white. Having tossed the idea over in my head over the past little bit, I think doubling the left-side line would be a good way to keep things distinct, while keeping the temporary lines orange.
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on December 01, 2014, 09:10:55 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 01, 2014, 07:09:10 PM
We very briefly discussed this as to Ontario a few years ago. I liked the idea then and still do.
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7496.msg168691#msg168691
Don't get me wrong. I like the idea too. I just think something needs to be done to distinguish the yellow from white. Having tossed the idea over in my head over the past little bit, I think doubling the left-side line would be a good way to keep things distinct, while keeping the temporary lines orange.
Okay. How about double orange on the left and single on the right? Seems to me that would work.
If it's a temporary zone, I don't see what the big deal would be either about using all orange lines. In most cases, it's very apparent which lane is for which direction of travel. Personally, I think it's sometimes confusing when multiple lanes are marked by solid white lines - is the lane to the right a shoulder lane not to be driven in or a temporary lane for travel?
What I hate is when they rip up the old lane markings, put down either new or temporary ones, and fail to clean up the ruts in the pavement left by the old markings. At night, and especially at night in the rain, it can be quite difficult to distinguish the ruts from the actual markings. I have no idea whether the orange markings help with that because I haven't seen them in person.
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 02, 2014, 08:52:12 AM
What I hate is when they rip up the old lane markings, put down either new or temporary ones, and fail to clean up the ruts in the pavement left by the old markings. At night, and especially at night in the rain, it can be quite difficult to distinguish the ruts from the actual markings. I have no idea whether the orange markings help with that because I haven't seen them in person.
That 295/42/76 project near me? They've actually repaved I-76 twice since that project began (in less than a year's time): The first time because they eliminated the express/local lane structure and new lines wouldn't match up with the old lines, and then again after they were done with lane shifts and divisions. It was probably a good million dollars eaten up each time to repave a mile or so of roadway in each direction, but it definitely eliminates the old markings & ruts!
If on a divided road, I think this is a great idea. For two lane roads, I think it could get confusing.
How about using yellow for the center markings but using orange for the white markings? that'd help distinguish which one is right and which one is left.
Ontario has used orange line paint on construction projects for about a decade now, give or take. If the practice was confusing people and either causing additional collisions within their vicinity or reducing the throughput through a construction zone, it would stand to reason that the MTO would have discontinued, or at the very least, altered how it uses orange striping through a construction zone.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2FOntroads%2FHwy69_orange.jpg&hash=34ccb0fa6e2221c5933df923007b875868731490)
Québec has been experimenting with it for a while.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7070/7082741177_a30fcf0630_c.jpg) (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13137334@N06/7082741177/)
IMG_6363 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/13137334@N06/7082741177/) par Dr Frankenstein (https://www.flickr.com/people/13137334@N06/), sur Flickr
I also don't like that both yellow and white turn to orange; I'd rather have the yellow lines stay as-is.
This is A-20 on the South Shore by the A-25 interchange right? This is the only location I think I've ever seen MTQ use orange on its network.
In the following album - of sections of the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee, WisDOT had contractors use (first) yellow, then orange lines.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/sets/72157654780524576/
Both are hideous - They're attempting to make roads more visible during the winter months - but it just looks gawd-awful fugly
WisDOT's explanation (http://projects.511wi.gov/zoo-interchange-project/orange-pavement-markings/)
Ontario has been doing this for years. I like it actually.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 31, 2015, 04:29:28 PM
Some pictures of the 417 construction related to the LRT construction in eastern Ottawa:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_410-427_images%2F417_cl_116_east_EB_May15_forum.jpg&hash=d19add0abc07f90af7f50762606d8cfd734f470f)
Easterly view from the Belfast Road overpass
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_410-427_images%2F417_cl_117_east_WB_May15_forum.jpg&hash=fadc15f558b2e5ae241806d6c6c3bcb40f8bde4f)
Easterly view along the 417 towards the new pedestrian overpass from the Vanier Parkway overpass
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_410-427_images%2F417_cl_117_west_WB_May15_forum.jpg&hash=1c0c750c6f4d5c9eb279ce4addfcc0d45895b2b6)
Westerly view towards the Rideau River bridge from the Vanier Parkway overpass
Fuck winter visibility -- they are far better at helping drivers realize they're in construction zones than anything else.
Quote from: WisDOTLast year motorists at times experienced difficult conditions in winter work zones as salt residue on the roadway surface left the traditional white lane markings very challenging to visually pick out.
How is that any different in a construction zone than any other area in winter?
Quote from: briantroutman on June 21, 2015, 12:09:46 AM
Quote from: WisDOTLast year motorists at times experienced difficult conditions in winter work zones as salt residue on the roadway surface left the traditional white lane markings very challenging to visually pick out.
How is that any different in a construction zone than any other area in winter?
I'm thinking perhaps it has to do with the lanes being moved over temporarily during construction sometimes. Refer to the images I posted above.
Previous discussion: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14127.msg2024483#msg2024483 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14127.msg2024483#msg2024483)
I just drove through that experiment Saturday (looks like Scott and I may have just missed each other driving the 94 corridor). :wave: Its second (third?) paint iteration looks as ugly as when I first saw it this past winter. They are having a horrible time keeping the orange colorfast, as it's mostly looking yellow now. However, one section (maybe just re-done?) was such a deep orange, it almost looked red.
And as Scott's second link points out, it's to make the construction zone stand out more overall, not just for the winter months. (As if all the orange barrels and signs aren't enough of a clue.) :pan:
There was a presentation on this experiment at our ITE workshop this past spring, and the state marking engineer said that the suppliers are still trying to perfect the orange color. The second round of the public survey was more positive than the first time they surveyed folks just after the orange was first put down back in December.
Strange, definitely. Was wondering though, how reflective it is at night, especially since it is temp striping.
Something else caught my eye....the 5th Flickr-pic down (sorry, I'm not where I have full pic/graphics capability right now) has a construction-diamond sign showing how wide the lanes in the construction zone are (11' wide). Is this a local/state DOT thing in WI, or is it a new national MUTCD addition I'm not familiar with? Either way, I kinda like it. I could probably name a few previous construction projects where having that kind of signage might have helped at least somewhat.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on June 21, 2015, 12:04:43 AM
Ontario has been doing this for years. I like it actually.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on May 31, 2015, 04:29:28 PM
Some pictures of the 417 construction related to the LRT construction in eastern Ottawa:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_410-427_images%2F417_cl_116_east_EB_May15_forum.jpg&hash=d19add0abc07f90af7f50762606d8cfd734f470f)
Easterly view from the Belfast Road overpass
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_410-427_images%2F417_cl_117_east_WB_May15_forum.jpg&hash=fadc15f558b2e5ae241806d6c6c3bcb40f8bde4f)
Easterly view along the 417 towards the new pedestrian overpass from the Vanier Parkway overpass
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_410-427_images%2F417_cl_117_west_WB_May15_forum.jpg&hash=1c0c750c6f4d5c9eb279ce4addfcc0d45895b2b6)
Westerly view towards the Rideau River bridge from the Vanier Parkway overpass
Also on Queen Elizabeth Way
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.298029,-79.796821,3a,75y,335.6h,89.05t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s2naz193sz1GVoryDdyLiaw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D2naz193sz1GVoryDdyLiaw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D100%26h%3D80%26yaw%3D103.53382%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656
Quote from: DaBigE on June 21, 2015, 01:03:50 AM
Previous discussion: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14127.msg2024483#msg2024483 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14127.msg2024483#msg2024483)
I just drove through that experiment Saturday (looks like Scott and I may have just missed each other driving the 94 corridor). :wave: Its second (third?) paint iteration looks as ugly as when I first saw it this past winter. They are having a horrible time keeping the orange colorfast, as it's mostly looking yellow now. However, one section (maybe just re-done?) was such a deep orange, it almost looked red.
And as Scott's second link points out, it's to make the construction zone stand out more overall, not just for the winter months. (As if all the orange barrels and signs aren't enough of a clue.) :pan:
There was a presentation on this experiment at our ITE workshop this past spring, and the state marking engineer said that the suppliers are still trying to perfect the orange color. The second round of the public survey was more positive than the first time they surveyed folks just after the orange was first put down back in December.
I knew there was a topic out there...
:banghead:
Merged... (text color delibrate ;) )
Quote from: txstateends on June 21, 2015, 09:39:21 AM
Strange, definitely. Was wondering though, how reflective it is at night, especially since it is temp striping.
Something else caught my eye....the 5th Flickr-pic down (sorry, I'm not where I have full pic/graphics capability right now) has a construction-diamond sign showing how wide the lanes in the construction zone are (11' wide). Is this a local/state DOT thing in WI, or is it a new national MUTCD addition I'm not familiar with? Either way, I kinda like it. I could probably name a few previous construction projects where having that kind of signage might have helped at least somewhat.
The Max-width sign is standard, the "Each Lane" part - why???? cause some people don't "get it"
The EACH LANE has become a very recent WisDOT standard, mainly for oversized load routes. The rationale comes from oversized load truckers getting confused as to exactly how much room they have to operate, since the MAX WIDTH signs are generally placed far in advance of a construction zone. Without the plaque, some truckers assumed that the whole roadway has, in this example, 11-feet of width, meaning that a 13-foot wide load would not fit and would have to turn detour. This way, they have an idea that there are multiple concurrent lanes that are 11-feet wide, meaning that the 13-foot load could still pass thru.
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 21, 2015, 11:24:42 AM
Quote from: txstateends on June 21, 2015, 09:39:21 AM
Something else caught my eye....the 5th Flickr-pic down (sorry, I'm not where I have full pic/graphics capability right now) has a construction-diamond sign showing how wide the lanes in the construction zone are (11' wide). Is this a local/state DOT thing in WI, or is it a new national MUTCD addition I'm not familiar with? Either way, I kinda like it. I could probably name a few previous construction projects where having that kind of signage might have helped at least somewhat.
The Max-width sign is standard, the "Each Lane" part - why???? cause some people don't "get it"
That must be a State standard sign. I can't seem to find that max width sign in the MUTCD construction sign section. Seems like a good idea to make a national standard for use with narrow lanes.
I wish we would make it a standard to require thermoplastic tape for temporary markings. Using paint for it makes the new road covered in gouges from paint removal before it's even been fully completed. If tape is used it comes off cleaner and you can actually enjoy a pristine road surface for a while.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 31, 2015, 04:19:05 PM
I wish we would make it a standard to require thermoplastic tape for temporary markings. Using paint for it makes the new road covered in gouges from paint removal before it's even been fully completed. If tape is used it comes off cleaner and you can actually enjoy a pristine road surface for a while.
Depends on how long-term the work is. If it extends through the winter, you can't use thermoplastic up north because of snow. Short-term thermoplastic also deforms quite easily. I care more about how easily the markings can be understood in all types of weather than how it looks when complete.
This is a decent point, but here, we don't have such a problem. In fact, all of the obliterated markings make it difficult to tell where the real ones are in some cases.
But then again, why am I expecting anything from OkDOT? You would have thought I'd learned after 20 years.
On the recently widened/reconstructed sections of Thruway between exits 23-24 and 39-40, the "temporary" markings in what is now the shoulder are STILL fully visible. It's one of the ugliest things I've ever seen. For a while, the "temporary" lane markings were fully visible too, giving the road TWO sets of pavement lines that contradicted each other.
Ideally, completed construction should look so seamless that one can't even tell the road was ever in a different condition.
I've seen gouges that look like regular lines in the late afternoon sun. I hate it when that happens. The regular road users usually know where the correct lines are, but it's a crapshoot which "lines" the out-of-towners will follow.
I didn't know Europe (specifically Switzerland) also used orange for construction zones:
https://goo.gl/maps/AKFA79mn5xA2
Quote from: SignGeek101 on September 26, 2015, 10:49:33 AM
I didn't know Europe (specifically Switzerland) also used orange for construction zones:
https://goo.gl/maps/AKFA79mn5xA2
I could be wrong, but I think that's where Ontario got the idea from in the first place.
Quote from: jakeroot on September 26, 2015, 08:32:31 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on September 26, 2015, 10:49:33 AM
I didn't know Europe (specifically Switzerland) also used orange for construction zones:
https://goo.gl/maps/AKFA79mn5xA2
I could be wrong, but I think that's where Ontario got the idea from in the first place.
:nod:
Per the MTO policy on Fluorescent Orange Temporary Pavement Markings (2011), "The concept has been applied by many European countries such as Germany and the Netherlands."
Quote from: cbeach40 on September 28, 2015, 05:07:38 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on September 26, 2015, 08:32:31 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on September 26, 2015, 10:49:33 AM
I didn't know Europe (specifically Switzerland) also used orange for construction zones:
https://goo.gl/maps/AKFA79mn5xA2
I could be wrong, but I think that's where Ontario got the idea from in the first place.
:nod:
Per the MTO policy on Fluorescent Orange Temporary Pavement Markings (2011), "The concept has been applied by many European countries such as Germany and the Netherlands."
It certainly works. Orange markings ups the "seriousness" level. I drive through a construction zone with orange lines in Ontario more cautiously than one without, as do other drivers. It's a lot harder to miss orange paint on the road than an orange sign that might be hidden by traffic or missed due to conditions.