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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: talllguy on December 06, 2014, 05:28:42 AM

Title: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: talllguy on December 06, 2014, 05:28:42 AM
Greetings,

The I-95 ETL project is completed, and the lanes open to traffic this morning at 6am. Yesterday I was able to drive by and take some pictures. Some interesting signs that I've not seen before, dealing with the differentiation between lanes. How do these compare to ETLs in your town?

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7574/15769778920_59dfbc803b_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q2weS1)
65/55 (https://flic.kr/p/q2weS1) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7528/15931281696_55a14bfa0f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qgMZ1C)
Left Entrance (https://flic.kr/p/qgMZ1C) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7575/15771034839_aaf5b974a3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q2CFcM)
Express Merge (https://flic.kr/p/q2CFcM) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7466/15957050255_a12720ac43_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qj5478)
Green Entrance (https://flic.kr/p/qj5478) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7491/15771254949_44bcb5304a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q2DNCM)
Exit Only (https://flic.kr/p/q2DNCM) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7513/15955309781_3dc6719bc7_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qiV8HX)
No Cash (https://flic.kr/p/qiV8HX) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7463/15771553987_499363177d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q2FkwB)
Toll Rate VMS (https://flic.kr/p/q2FkwB) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7563/15955311201_7b302df99d_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qiV99r)
No Access to 695 (https://flic.kr/p/qiV99r) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

Notice anything interesting? Here is the full set: https://www.flickr.com/photos/talllguy/sets/72157649213490737
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: jrouse on December 06, 2014, 10:40:38 AM
A couple of MUTCD violations - They are using a "NO CASH" plaque where they should be saying "ONLY".  And the word "TOLL" on the toll rate sign should be displayed in the regulatory part of the sign above the rates themselves, not in the yellow plaque on the green header.   

Nice looking signs otherwise.  Thanks for capturing and sharing.  I've been curious as to how they would be signed.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: riiga on December 06, 2014, 11:29:27 AM
Quote from: talllguy on December 06, 2014, 05:28:42 AM
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7575/15771034839_aaf5b974a3_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q2CFcM)
Express Merge (https://flic.kr/p/q2CFcM) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr
Nice pics!

Why wasn't this sign used instead though?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/MUTCD_W4-2R.svg/100px-MUTCD_W4-2R.svg.png)
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: rawmustard on December 06, 2014, 11:40:32 AM
Quote from: riiga on December 06, 2014, 11:29:27 AM
Nice pics!

Why wasn't this sign used instead though?
(snip image)

Sometimes the text version is used, sometimes the graphic is used, and sometimes both are used (agency preference). It should be noted that the sign pictured is the previous version. (The current version has all its text at a consistent size, although I prefer the previous version in this instance.)
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: 1995hoo on December 06, 2014, 12:03:20 PM
In Virginia, the speed limit sign for the managed lanes would ordinarily be placed on the left side of said lanes while the sign for the general-purpose lanes would be placed on the right side of those lanes, so as to separate them as far as possible. (The new I-95 HO/T lanes instead have electronic variable speed limit signs mounted on overhead gantries.) They do use banners similar in concept to what Maryland has there.

I think the "NO CASH" is a useful thing to have on the sign, regardless of what the MUTCD might say, though it might be nice if there were some way to display that using some sort of symbol for people who don't speak or read English. I don't know whether the Maryland ETLs offer a toll-by-plate option like the Intercounty Connector does. If so, that would be a reason for not saying "E-ZPass Only" since there is another payment option.

Those signs all look good, though. I think Maryland generally seems to do a decent job with signs and these are no exception.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: 02 Park Ave on December 06, 2014, 12:25:13 PM
There is a "Video Toll Rate".  It is, for motorcars, $1 higher than the E-Z Pass rate for the time/day of travel.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: 1995hoo on December 06, 2014, 03:23:38 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on December 06, 2014, 12:25:13 PM
There is a "Video Toll Rate".  It is, for motorcars, $1 higher than the E-Z Pass rate for the time/day of travel.

Thanks. In that case, I'd feel they give you an option of how to pay such that "E-ZPass Only" isn't quite accurate. Compare to Virginia's HO/T lanes, where if they send you a bill, it has a $12.50 surcharge because E-ZPass is required. It certainly simplifies the signage for Maryland's lanes compared to ours!
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: CtrlAltDel on December 06, 2014, 04:11:12 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on December 06, 2014, 12:03:20 PM
I think the "NO CASH" is a useful thing to have on the sign, regardless of what the MUTCD might say, though it might be nice if there were some way to display that using some sort of symbol for people who don't speak or read English.

Something like this maybe?

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi59.tinypic.com%2Fr26cmu.png&hash=aecaff6139e6096a212aa148596789873332624e)
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: Zeffy on December 06, 2014, 04:19:24 PM
Here's what I came up with. It's similar to the NO TRUCKS plaques (in symbol form) or the NO {X} TURN signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8la0JPr.png&hash=cda1f9e01822500b10876f5502b13e66e3ae8a74)
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: NE2 on December 06, 2014, 04:57:09 PM
Coins only!
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: riiga on December 06, 2014, 05:45:52 PM
How about these for various situations on the toll road?
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.majhost.com%2Fgallery%2Friiga%2FSkyltar%2Fez-pass.png&hash=bdd159e58da3e2abb29ed8489ccd7495b69302e7)
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: NE2 on December 06, 2014, 06:05:02 PM
How about "no cash"? Much easier to read at highway speeds.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: 1995hoo on December 06, 2014, 06:19:56 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 06, 2014, 06:05:02 PM
How about "no cash"? Much easier to read at highway speeds.

They're responding to what I said earlier: "I think the 'NO CASH' is a useful thing to have on the sign, regardless of what the MUTCD might say, though it might be nice if there were some way to display that using some sort of symbol for people who don't speak or read English."

Note the signs already say "NO CASH." I was responding to someone's comment that it should say "ONLY" next to the E-ZPass logo.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: Alex on December 07, 2014, 10:19:00 AM
Quote from: talllguy on December 06, 2014, 05:28:42 AM
Greetings,

The I-95 ETL project is completed, and the lanes open to traffic this morning at 6am. Yesterday I was able to drive by and take some pictures. Some interesting signs that I've not seen before, dealing with the differentiation between lanes. How do these compare to ETLs in your town?

Similarly, the 595 Express Lanes (https://www.aaroads.com/guide.php?page=i0595efl) in South Florida have a 70 mph speed limit while the general purpose lanes remain at 65 mph.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: Henry on December 07, 2014, 01:37:47 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 06, 2014, 04:19:24 PM
Here's what I came up with. It's similar to the NO TRUCKS plaques (in symbol form) or the NO {X} TURN signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8la0JPr.png&hash=cda1f9e01822500b10876f5502b13e66e3ae8a74)
I like that!

As for the ETL's, will non-EZPass users either get a bill in the mail or be banned from using them altogether?
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: 1995hoo on December 07, 2014, 02:27:39 PM
Quote from: Henry on December 07, 2014, 01:37:47 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 06, 2014, 04:19:24 PM
Here's what I came up with. It's similar to the NO TRUCKS plaques (in symbol form) or the NO {X} TURN signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8la0JPr.png&hash=cda1f9e01822500b10876f5502b13e66e3ae8a74)
I like that!

As for the ETL's, will non-EZPass users either get a bill in the mail or be banned from using them altogether?

See earlier in the thread. I asked about that.

Quote from: 02 Park Ave on December 06, 2014, 12:25:13 PM
There is a "Video Toll Rate".  It is, for motorcars, $1 higher than the E-Z Pass rate for the time/day of travel.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: PHLBOS on December 07, 2014, 04:15:22 PM
Quote from: talllguy on December 06, 2014, 05:28:42 AM(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7528/15931281696_55a14bfa0f_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qgMZ1C)
Left Entrance (https://flic.kr/p/qgMZ1C) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr
That is one ugly I-95 shield on that TOLL 95 EXPRESS post-mounted LGS.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: Stratuscaster on December 07, 2014, 09:37:07 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 06, 2014, 04:19:24 PM
Here's what I came up with. It's similar to the NO TRUCKS plaques (in symbol form) or the NO {X} TURN signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8la0JPr.png&hash=cda1f9e01822500b10876f5502b13e66e3ae8a74)
I know more than a few folks that would think this means "free."
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: cpzilliacus on December 07, 2014, 10:06:23 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 06, 2014, 04:19:24 PM
Here's what I came up with. It's similar to the NO TRUCKS plaques (in symbol form) or the NO {X} TURN signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8la0JPr.png&hash=cda1f9e01822500b10876f5502b13e66e3ae8a74)

The Dulles Greenway (Va. 267 in Loudoun County) has signage very much like the above - at night, the mainline toll barrier on the Greenway is unstaffed.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: Alex on December 08, 2014, 10:01:43 AM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 07, 2014, 04:15:22 PM
That is one ugly I-95 shield on that TOLL 95 EXPRESS post-mounted LGS.

Why are ugly renditions of standard Interstate shields used for managed lanes anyway?

(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/TX/TX20050101i1.jpg)
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: talllguy on December 08, 2014, 10:20:34 AM
Quote from: rawmustard on December 06, 2014, 11:40:32 AM
Quote from: riiga on December 06, 2014, 11:29:27 AM
Nice pics!

Why wasn't this sign used instead though?
(snip image)

Sometimes the text version is used, sometimes the graphic is used, and sometimes both are used (agency preference). It should be noted that the sign pictured is the previous version. (The current version has all its text at a consistent size, although I prefer the previous version in this instance.)

DelDOT cannot decide which one to use:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7461/15969730161_8239b76218_n.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/qkc3pc)
Lane Ends Merge Left (https://flic.kr/p/qkc3pc) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: jrouse on December 08, 2014, 07:40:43 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on December 06, 2014, 12:25:13 PM
There is a "Video Toll Rate".  It is, for motorcars, $1 higher than the E-Z Pass rate for the time/day of travel.
I had forgotten about the video tolling.  In that case, then, they should not be using a purple header panel, because purple is to be used for only those cases where registration in some type of electronic toll collection program is required.  From what I read, I don't think you need to be registered in any sort of program to use video tolling.  In that case, a white header would be appropriate, with the EZPass logo and the phrase "OR VIDEO TOLL ONLY", or something to that effect.  I would have to double check Chapter 2F of the MUTCD but I think the use of the "ONLY" regulatory message is required regardless of what method is used.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: jakeroot on December 08, 2014, 11:00:43 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 07, 2014, 04:15:22 PM
Quote from: talllguy on December 06, 2014, 05:28:42 AM
Left Entrance (https://flic.kr/p/qgMZ1C) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

That is one ugly I-95 shield on that TOLL 95 EXPRESS post-mounted LGS.

I was thinking the exact opposite. I think the Series C in the LGS looks much nicer a little nicer than the overly huge Series D "95" in the overhead BGS. The MUTCD (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/SHSm/Guide.pdf) seems to indicate that Interstate shields should not have numbers that large.

EDIT: The LGSs "5" in the "95" seems to have a squished lower hook which looks a little strange to me. Then again, it might just be the angle.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: PHLBOS on December 09, 2014, 11:52:24 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on December 08, 2014, 11:00:43 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on December 07, 2014, 04:15:22 PM
Quote from: talllguy on December 06, 2014, 05:28:42 AM
Left Entrance (https://flic.kr/p/qgMZ1C) by Elliott Plack (https://www.flickr.com/people/88483799@N00/), on Flickr

That is one ugly I-95 shield on that TOLL 95 EXPRESS post-mounted LGS.

I was thinking the exact opposite. I think the Series C in the LGS looks much nicer a little nicer than the overly huge Series D "95" in the overhead BGS. The MUTCD (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/SHSm/Guide.pdf) seems to indicate that Interstate shields should not have numbers that large.

EDIT: The LGSs "5" in the "95" seems to have a squished lower hook which looks a little strange to me. Then again, it might just be the angle.
I was referring to the shape of that I-shield, not the numerals themselves with my earlier comment.  BTW, those numerals are actually an elongated version of Series D.  I've seen PennDOT do similar practice done with 3di shields recently.

Personally, I don't mind the larger size of the Series D numerals like the one shown on that pull-through BGS at all.  Incidentally, some newer installations elsewhere (can't speak for MD) are now using smaller numerals on the I-shields... at least for the 2dis; but one problem that's been surfacing as of late is that these numerals, on many instances, get placed either too high or too close together and looks like absolute crap IMHO.  If one's going to use smaller numerals on I-shields; they should at least place them in their respective proper spots.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on December 18, 2014, 07:29:08 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on December 07, 2014, 09:37:07 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on December 06, 2014, 04:19:24 PM
Here's what I came up with. It's similar to the NO TRUCKS plaques (in symbol form) or the NO {X} TURN signs:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F8la0JPr.png&hash=cda1f9e01822500b10876f5502b13e66e3ae8a74)
I know more than a few folks that would think this means "free."

I was thinking the same thing. I think a text "no cash" is honestly the best way to communicate electronic-only tolling at this point.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: WashuOtaku on December 18, 2014, 08:03:09 PM
I think they put "no cash" on there is because there are other tolls in Maryland that have booths.  This doesn't appear in North Carolina or Georgia, where they have full ETC systems.  It's either, you have a responder or we mail you a bill by tag.
Title: Re: I-95 Express Toll Lane Signage!
Post by: roadman on December 19, 2014, 10:19:44 AM
Massachusetts includes a "NO CASH OPTION" banner on the signs for the Tobin Bridge ETC system, which is E-ZPass or "Pay By Plate" (billed by mail) for those without transponders.