When did the now familiar pentagon first appear? What state/county?
New to me: http://rrhproduce.blogspot.com/2009/08/william-d-mcintosh-highway.html
QuoteAfter WWII my mother's father became a county engineer with Lassen County. He worked on road design, construction, and maintenance at all levels. From operating machinery, to surveying, to layout and design.
In the 1950's, as a member of the County Supervisors Association of California, he put forward the idea of identifying and standardizing major county routes and he brought it up at a state meeting. There was some initial opposition citing the cost, however one major backer was the California State Automobile Association. They made road maps and recognized that standardized route and markers would greatly simplify driving in California.
So a committee was created, with my grandfather as the head, to investigate a state route marker program.
And In 1958, the County Supervisors Association of California established the California County Route Marker Program.
They developed this sign: County, Number, Blue and gold for California.
The program designates the more important county routes by assigning them as "County Sign Routes" and giving route numbers to them.
The committee developed the following statement of purpose:
"The County Route Marker Program should be clearly defined as a program to mark County routes of major importance that are of general public interest; that are constructed to sufficient standards to guarantee safe passage to the motorist; that are properly signed in conformance with the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices to further ensure safe travel; and that have a logical beginning and logical terminus."
It was very important that the routes were between two logical destinations, and not roads to nowhere.
The program was successful, so my grandfather took it to the National Association of Counties and looked to establish a similar program for the rest of the states.
And in 1967, it was incorporated nationwide as the National Uniform County Route Marker Program adopted by the National Association of Counties (NACO). The signs remained the same blue and gold signs.
I had a feeling you knew the answer, SPUI.
I didn't.
You **found** the answer.
If www.aaroads.com/shields/show.php?image=NY19620091 is correct, Nassau County adopted their variant in 1962. Apparently orange and blue are Nassau's colors.
This explains why Lassen County is used on mock-ups such in the MUTCD. Nice of FHWA to give them a nod.
Oddly, Puerto Rico uses the "County" pentagon for secondary routes, while uses circles/ellipses for tertiary routes. I always thought it should be the other way around (Primary routes use a blue and white flat top/pointed bottom shield, while urban primary routes use the same design but in white and black).
Quote
and that have a logical beginning and logical terminus.
Did that make it into the program? I can think of a zillion county routes that randomly start/end at city/village lines because the county only signs the portions they maintain. To me, it would be logical to sign the route to the next county/state road even if the county doesn't maintain that portion.
Quote from: vdeane on December 30, 2014, 01:14:10 PM
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and that have a logical beginning and logical terminus.
Did that make it into the program?
Yes. The California program.
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
^^ WI county roads are maintained by the counties and non-pentagonal signs.
QuoteDoes any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons?
Are you talking about full states or just parts of states? If the latter, there are counties in both Minnesota and Mississippi where this is the case.
Some South Carolina counties minimally mark some of the roads that they maintain for themselves - I have definitely seen Orangeburg and Oconee Counties do this in the late 80s.
Buchanan County Virginia may also be doing this...
Mapmikey
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Depending on how you define "signed", Georgia might count (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8547883,-82.851825,3a,37.5y,152.63h,81.3t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sNwg5KxyYvhmqxYmT2FrZWg!2e0). There aren't any reassurance markers along the route or anything like that, just these numbers on the backs of stop signs.
I remember seeing one or two in Polk County TN and maybe somewhere else. I think maybe Meigs County. However, there were no reassurance markers just pentagons at junctions like I have seen in other states.
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
There are a couple shielded routes in Kitsap County, Washington that use a county outline shield. There are no pentagons in Washington to my knowledge.
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Oklahoma.
Quote from: bugo on December 31, 2014, 06:53:13 AM
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Oklahoma.
Where does Oklahoma have signed county routes?
Quote from: NE2 on December 31, 2014, 07:37:53 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 31, 2014, 06:53:13 AM
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Oklahoma.
Where does Oklahoma have signed county routes?
Most county roads have either blades or green signs that are attached to the backs of stop signs.
Most Michigan counties that sign county roads use the older square marker. MDOT specifies the pentagon for specific county-designated, or inter county, highways. I know at least one (Gogebic) uses the pentagon for their primary CRs without putting them into MDOT's program. Delta County also has some of their primary CRs marked with a green and white square marker, while the rest are black and white.
iPhone
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Does Ohio have any pentagons that aren't on street name blades? Whenever I have seen a CR signed (rare), it's a white square with black lettering.
Indiana uses rectangular signs for county routes, that look a lot like the state route marker.
Quote from: Big John on December 30, 2014, 06:04:53 PM
^^ WI county roads are maintained by the counties and non-pentagonal signs.
Yep, Wisconsin specifies the black-on-white square for county trunk highways (as noted, interestingly enough, in NE2's avatar).
Now, when Illinois counties sign them, they use the pentagonal marker. That is, when they sign them, if they sign them at all.
Quote from: cl94 on December 31, 2014, 09:37:30 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Does Ohio have any pentagons that aren't on street name blades? Whenever I have seen a CR signed (rare), it's a white square with black lettering.
In my Ohio travels, Ohio's Madison county uses the pentagons, as well as Mahoning and Tuscarawas. Like other states, consistently inconsistent.
Quote from: route17fan on January 04, 2015, 03:23:35 PM
Quote from: cl94 on December 31, 2014, 09:37:30 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Does Ohio have any pentagons that aren't on street name blades? Whenever I have seen a CR signed (rare), it's a white square with black lettering.
In my Ohio travels, Ohio's Madison county uses the pentagons, as well as Mahoning and Tuscarawas. Like other states, consistently inconsistent.
Inconsistent even within the county. Coming off of the Ohio Turnpike is a square for Mahoning CR 18, while the actual route gets a pentagon (just looked at that one). One thing is consistent: I've yet to see a BGS with a pentagon, with all getting squares.
Not the Ohio Turnpike, but I've seen a BGS with a pentagon on I-77 north of I-70. It's a fairly recent (Clearview) installation.
I rarely see pentagon shields in Arizona. In fact, the only one I ever recall seeing is Yavapai County Road 78 when I go on trips to Sedona via SR 179.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 04, 2015, 07:05:23 PM
Not the Ohio Turnpike, but I've seen a BGS with a pentagon on I-77 north of I-70. It's a fairly recent (Clearview) installation.
Yes indeed - Kimbolton/Plainfield - Exit 54 on I-77 :)
Ohio:
Almost every county signs its county route numbers, but most just put that as additional info, secondary to the name, on blade signs. Some counties use pentagon consistently (but not Madison county as previously noted; they put MAD CO XX on their blades, and the only pentagons I know of are surrounding a single intersection that was realigned ca 2000). I do recall seeing a pentagon on a BGS somewhere northeast or southeast. Some counties use standard white square, foremost in my mind Fairfield county. A few counties made up their own style county route marker.
To my knowledge, no county makes any distinction between useful county routes with logical termini, and other roads that just happen to be county maintained. (However, the least important rural roads are usually township maintained, so the county designation does carry some minimal implication of importance.)
Quote from: bugo on December 31, 2014, 08:06:21 AM
Quote from: NE2 on December 31, 2014, 07:37:53 AM
Quote from: bugo on December 31, 2014, 06:53:13 AM
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Oklahoma.
Where does Oklahoma have signed county routes?
Most county roads have either blades or green signs that are attached to the backs of stop signs.
The green signs on the back of stop signs are ODOT reference markers. Top line is county number (same as on the back of your drivers license), middle line is control section number, bottom line is mileage. It has nothing to do with the county roads.
Oklahoma doesn't have county routes in the sense that other states do. One route does exist in Ottawa County, which is a former state highway and is now signed as a CR of the same number with nonstandard signs. I don't remember the exact number but photos exist on OKHighways.
Quote from: Pink Jazz on January 04, 2015, 07:08:31 PM
I rarely see pentagon shields in Arizona. In fact, the only one I ever recall seeing is Yavapai County Road 78 when I go on trips to Sedona via SR 179.
Yavapai uses them a fair bit.
http://goo.gl/maps/rIiEm
http://goo.gl/maps/My8SG
http://goo.gl/maps/Rwab7
http://goo.gl/maps/s8Nol
There are also END signs on many of them where they switch to city or state maintenance.
Mohave uses them too:
http://goo.gl/maps/PsGcC (old US 91 routing)
http://goo.gl/maps/mSbTc
http://goo.gl/maps/anmiY
And Coconino:
http://goo.gl/maps/EIQFG
http://goo.gl/maps/Lqf0k
http://goo.gl/maps/9aB84
Quote from: vtk on January 04, 2015, 08:06:38 PM
Ohio:
Almost every county signs its county route numbers, but most just put that as additional info, secondary to the name, on blade signs. Some counties use pentagon consistently (but not Madison county as previously noted; they put MAD CO XX on their blades, and the only pentagons I know of are surrounding a single intersection that was realigned ca 2000). I do recall seeing a pentagon on a BGS somewhere northeast or southeast. Some counties use standard white square, foremost in my mind Fairfield county. A few counties made up their own style county route marker.
To my knowledge, no county makes any distinction between useful county routes with logical termini, and other roads that just happen to be county maintained. (However, the least important rural roads are usually township maintained, so the county designation does carry some minimal implication of importance.)
Good to know - I had just moved back home to Ohio and found my best friend from high school in Plain City and was just driving around the area when I happened upon a sample or two of the shields and just thought they were county-wide. Thank you for the info :)
Quote from: cl94 on December 31, 2014, 09:37:30 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 05:54:24 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on December 30, 2014, 05:51:09 PM
Of course, not every state uses county pentagon markers. :crazy:
Does any state have actual signed county-maintained county routes but no pentagons? Hawaii? (But don't they just sign them as state routes?)
Does Ohio have any pentagons that aren't on street name blades? Whenever I have seen a CR signed (rare), it's a white square with black lettering.
Tuscarawas County, OH always used the white square with black lettering for CR signs. I have not made frequent enough return visits to tell you when it was done, but those signs were replaced by blue/yellow shields at some point in the past 15-20 years. Perhaps more recently than that.
Come to think of it, I think Seneca County OH uses them too.
Quote from: route17fan on January 12, 2015, 12:41:18 PM
Come to think of it, I think Seneca County OH uses them too.
Not in the eastern half of the county – that's all street name blades, with CR XX or TR XX instead of names. I pass through semiregularly on OH 4 and OH 269, and sometimes venture a couple of miles west or east of those routes on the local roads.
Since New Jersey's county route system is much more extensive than other states, when did we stop using the black on white rectangular shields and start using the pentagon ones?