What was the reason for US 70 to be extended into California? Were there plans to give it its own alignment in Los Angeles? Or did they just want a transcontinental route?
EDIT: Change message icon. --Roadfro
I'm not as familiar with the earlier US 70 plans, but if I were to guess, it would be because they wanted a transcontinental route, although that purpose was already served by US 60, which is today's CA 60. And I think that route would've been unnecessary for the same reason, as there would've been nowhere else to put it. US 80 was going to San Diego, so Los Angeles would've been better served by a standalone US 60. Of course, what is now CA 70 was once US 40 Alt, but that's for another topic. Here's a link that would be more helpful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_70#History
Probably just so it could end at the coast. It's old freeway alignment is just 2 blocks away from me.
It did give an east-west number to the San Bernardino Freeway, which was US 99.
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 01:24:11 PM
It did give an east-west number to the San Bernardino Freeway, which was US 99.
Having said that, wasn't a majority of the Ramona Boulevard/Parkway (now San Bernardino Freeway) route west of Ontario already US 60 too?
Seems like US 60 took Ramona Parkway to Valley Blvd then switched over there, though it's sometimes hard to tell from the older large scale maps.
I think the Garvey Avenue route for 60-70-99 was completed (mid-30s) by the time U.S. 70 was extended. U.S. 70 actually was marked as a solo route for a year or two, on the very short segment of the San Bernardino Freeway west of the Golden State. The markings for U.S. 60 were removed from guide signage along the San Bernardino west of Pomona, and the reassurance markers were separated from the I-10/U.S. 70/U.S. 99 route markers, evidently in preparation for ultimately moving the U.S. 60 designation to the Pomona Freeway. WB on the San Bernardino at the Golden State, there was a U.S. 70/Los Angeles pull-through sign.
Long answer, but ultimately the conclusion is that U.S. 70 was always superfluous in California.
US 60 was not planned to follow the Pomona Freeway. It was to be constructed after US 60 was truncated to Arizona. The signs showing US 70 only reflected the earlier truncation of US 60 to Pomona itself at the present-day Kellogg Hill Interchange where State 71/State 57/I-10/(former I-210) meet.
Quote from: sdmichael on December 30, 2014, 10:02:01 PM
US 60 was not planned to follow the Pomona Freeway. It was to be constructed after US 60 was truncated to Arizona. The signs showing US 70 only reflected the earlier truncation of US 60 to Pomona itself at the present-day Kellogg Hill Interchange where State 71/State 57/I-10/(former I-210) meet.
Except, when the East L.A. interchange opened in the early 60s, there was the corner of a U.S. shield peeking out of the blank overlay on the future signage for the Pomona Freeway. The Pomona was certainly planned way prior to 1964, so if the Pomona wasn't going to be U.S. 60, what was it?
For that, I'll have to consult the sign plans for that interchange at District 7 HQ. Now that I'll have Mondays off, I will make a visit in the near future.
Quote from: NE2 on December 30, 2014, 01:24:11 PM
It did give an east-west number to the San Bernardino Freeway, which was US 99.
This seems like the most likely reason for US 70 making it west to LA, along with giving US 70 the prestige of going coast to coast. I would have liked to have seen US 70 rerouted somehow to head to Orange County to give another US route to a population center (perhaps via SR 74), but in those days, the key destination on the West Coast was LA ... and it still is, given how it is signed from places as far away as Flagstaff and Sacramento.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on December 30, 2014, 10:37:26 PM
Quote from: sdmichael on December 30, 2014, 10:02:01 PM
US 60 was not planned to follow the Pomona Freeway. It was to be constructed after US 60 was truncated to Arizona. The signs showing US 70 only reflected the earlier truncation of US 60 to Pomona itself at the present-day Kellogg Hill Interchange where State 71/State 57/I-10/(former I-210) meet.
Except, when the East L.A. interchange opened in the early 60s, there was the corner of a U.S. shield peeking out of the blank overlay on the future signage for the Pomona Freeway. The Pomona was certainly planned way prior to 1964, so if the Pomona wasn't going to be U.S. 60, what was it?
Yes, see this sign over here: http://goo.gl/maps/MojTI
Where the 60 highway (not entirely freeway here) splits off from I-10 in Beaumont there is definitely a CA-60 covering an old US-60 sign.
IMO, US 60 should've reamained the designation for the entire freeway from the East LA interchange and US 60 should have multiplexed with I-10 between Beaumont and Quartsize.
US 70 is superfluous and it was rightfully removed when the I-10 designation became standard.
Quote from: mrsman on January 05, 2015, 11:43:23 AM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on December 30, 2014, 10:37:26 PM
Quote from: sdmichael on December 30, 2014, 10:02:01 PM
US 60 was not planned to follow the Pomona Freeway. It was to be constructed after US 60 was truncated to Arizona. The signs showing US 70 only reflected the earlier truncation of US 60 to Pomona itself at the present-day Kellogg Hill Interchange where State 71/State 57/I-10/(former I-210) meet.
Except, when the East L.A. interchange opened in the early 60s, there was the corner of a U.S. shield peeking out of the blank overlay on the future signage for the Pomona Freeway. The Pomona was certainly planned way prior to 1964, so if the Pomona wasn't going to be U.S. 60, what was it?
Yes, see this sign over here: http://goo.gl/maps/MojTI
Where the 60 highway (not entirely freeway here) splits off from I-10 in Beaumont there is definitely a CA-60 covering an old US-60 sign.
IMO, US 60 should've reamained the designation for the entire freeway from the East LA interchange and US 60 should have multiplexed with I-10 between Beaumont and Quartsize.
US 70 is superfluous and it was rightfully removed when the I-10 designation became standard.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F05%2Fd1cfc05b0d9ea0263489c412107f754b.jpg&hash=6335c81c8e8c6ed7fea5423091b1a50d857c7e8a)
Yes, US 60 split from I-10 there. It ALWAYS split there, even from US 70 / US 99. However, I have not seen any plans showing US 60 planned to go anywhere west of Pomona (State 71), certainly not to I-5) along the present-day Pomona Freeway. I plan to visit Caltrans in the next month to check the sign plans for the East Los Angeles Interchange to verify this. Cosigning US 60 with I-10 from its present end in Arizona all the way to Beaumont just to have a shorter freeway get the US 60 designation does seem a bit much though. It would be on its own for a shorter length than it would be signed with I-10.
SDMichael,
I await your research on this area, as it will provide historic insight.
And as far as cosigning US 60 across the desert, this wasn't a new request, this was in fact maintaining the original status quo.
And it is clear that they named the new freeway CA-60 as an homage to the old US-60 route. Yes, US 60 probably never ran on its own route west of CA-71, but once you plan on building a freeway that is about 5 miles south of the San Bernardino Freeway to go from LA to Pomona to Riverside, and the Pomona to Riverside portion is already US 60, wouldn't it be easier to just move the US 60 designation to the LA to Pomona portion and not have US 60 rejoin I-10?
So, I think that it is very likely that US 60 may have been planned for the western Pomona Freeway, but then became CA-60 as a result of the 1964 renumbering. Whether any section was signed as US 60, is a mystery.
I can guarantee already that no portion of the current State 60 freeway west of the 71 was signed as US 60, mostly as it had not yet opened or was constructed by 1964. In all my research, I've found no indication it was to be US 60. Yes, US 60 had not been cut back to Arizona, more than likely US 60 would have gone on the present freeway.
US 70 also went by routes 60 and 99 in So CA, esp. from Indio/Coachella to Beaumont/Banning the route had 3 numbers: 60/70/99. From there through San Bernardino, Ontario, Pomona, Covina, El Monte, Alhambra and to downtown L.A., the 70-99. I find interesting 6 US routes crossed the San Bernardino-Riverside area such as Old 66 (Foothill Blvd), the Inland Empire's two largest cities (Riverside has more people than the considered hub San Bernardino). The interstate and CA freeway systems replaced the US routes when the Inland Empire region suburbanized from new residents moving in from L.A. or the OC, and San Diego. Old US 66 itself reminds the locals what the region used to be in most of the 20th century, as well fond memories of US 60, 70, 91, 99 and 395.
So... I went to Caltrans today. I will post more when i get home. So far, no. US 60 was not posted or planned at the East Los Angeles Interchange. What was, however, was State 26. A state highway shield under an overlay would appear similar to a US highway shield. I found a whole lot more as well.
Quote from: sdmichael on February 02, 2015, 09:27:03 PM
So... I went to Caltrans today. I will post more when i get home. So far, no. US 60 was not posted or planned at the East Los Angeles Interchange. What was, however, was State 26. A state highway shield under an overlay would appear similar to a US highway shield. I found a whole lot more as well.
Very interesting. I do know that CA-26 was once On Olympic Blvd. Could it be that there were plans to continue the Pomona Freeway as the Santa Monica Freeway as one routing (CA-26) and have I-10 terminate at US 101 near Union Station?
Plans apparently did call for the Pomona Freeway to be numbered as State 26 originally. It also appears that I-10 was to be cosigned with State 26, how far west I do not know. This is the first time I've seen anything other than 60 or just 10 on those freeways.
I've seen some maps showing U.S. 60 signed along Valley Blvd west of Pomona going towards Los Angeles, but they were early maps.
Here is a 1947 photo showing U.S. 60-70-99 approaching easterly towards "five points" on the west outskirts of Pomona. At the traffic light, U.S. 99-70 would continue east and U.S. 60 turned left and head south to Fifth Ave (now Mission Blvd), then turn left onto Fifth and head east out past Ontario and Riverside as U.S. 60 and eventually join back up with U.S. 70-99 in Beaumont.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx351%2FMrMemories64%2FFivePoints1946-Copy.jpg&hash=ca0da1f6117c37ce8c267c061ce4415cf35e98c8) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/MrMemories64/media/FivePoints1946-Copy.jpg.html)
Where would the approximate location be? The 71/Holt/Valley/Fairplex intersection?
Quote from: JustDrive on February 05, 2015, 07:25:39 PM
Where would the approximate location be? The 71/Holt/Valley/Fairplex intersection?
Exactly at Holt/Valley and Fairplex.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.historicaerials.com%2Fapi%2Flayers%2F1948%2F17%2F22650%2F52331%3FETag%3D0&hash=74f635763077043e0f4b67166aef02a44312fe3c)(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.historicaerials.com%2Fapi%2Flayers%2F1948%2F17%2F22651%2F52331%3FETag%3D0&hash=d196e0a80ad486175764f7c40034fa131bef7716)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.historicaerials.com%2Fapi%2Flayers%2F1948%2F17%2F22650%2F52332%3FETag%3D0&hash=661172608a70d3f6b9a758c442d50e2b9e8a1c64)(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.historicaerials.com%2Fapi%2Flayers%2F1948%2F17%2F22651%2F52332%3FETag%3D0&hash=109cb0c6fb19f07c617fb12771e029a23a781b02)
Quote from: CaliforniaRoadologist on February 05, 2015, 01:34:00 AM
I've seen some maps showing U.S. 60 signed along Valley Blvd west of Pomona going towards Los Angeles, but they were early maps.
Here is a 1947 photo showing U.S. 60-70-99 approaching easterly towards "five points" on the west outskirts of Pomona. At the traffic light, U.S. 99-70 would continue east and U.S. 60 turned left and head south to Fifth Ave (now Mission Blvd), then turn left onto Fifth and head east out past Ontario and Riverside as U.S. 60 and eventually join back up with U.S. 70-99 in Beaumont.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx351%2FMrMemories64%2FFivePoints1946-Copy.jpg&hash=ca0da1f6117c37ce8c267c061ce4415cf35e98c8) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/MrMemories64/media/FivePoints1946-Copy.jpg.html)
I have some photos of the intersection (aerials) from 1965 on my site - State Highway 71 - http://socalregion.com/highways/la_highways/sr-71/ (http://socalregion.com/highways/la_highways/sr-71/).
Just Drive....as NE2 mentioned, it was taken at the junction of Holt, Valley, Fairplex (then called Belleview Ave at the time) and the U.S. 60 connection from Holt to Mission. I used NE2's aerial to show the approximate spot the photo was taken from and the direction it was facing by using a red dot with an arrow,
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx351%2FMrMemories64%2F5points.jpg&hash=103e554eb561bb611694e340b57a5e1a52ddcf0a) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/MrMemories64/media/5points.jpg.html)
Here are some more of that intersection in 1957 looking north from Holt Ave at Five Points."
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx351%2FMrMemories64%2F5points3.jpg&hash=99fb771ae59cf6e82b900e86c2e83a7eca399d27) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/MrMemories64/media/5points3.jpg.html)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1177.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fx351%2FMrMemories64%2F5points4.jpg&hash=dcac61177077cf051273bbdb1c17c756c3710bf4) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/MrMemories64/media/5points4.jpg.html)
Quote
I have some photos of the intersection (aerials) from 1965 on my site - State Highway 71 - http://socalregion.com/highways/la_highways/sr-71/ (http://socalregion.com/highways/la_highways/sr-71/).
Yes, I have seen your site before, and I enjoyed it. That's where I learned about the remaining 1932 guardrail along the 71.
Roadologist: I'm very much enjoying your contributions. Just a friendly request, as a moderator, if you could post without the "12 point font" size tag. Thanks!
Well, that's interesting. Since I-10 occupied the pre-1964 LRN (173) for SR-26, that meant the state route would have been eliminated upon construction of the Santa Monica Freeway. So, it would not be illogical to extend the designation further east over the new Pomona Freeway. That raises the question of what the eastern terminus of SR-26 would be; would it have ended where U.S. 60 joined at Pomona, with U.S. 60 signed on the freeway to Riverside?
I wonder what current state sign route designations in California would be had the revision to the state statute that resulted in the great renumbering not occurred. I think that most U.S. routes still would have been truncated where they are concurrent with Interstates.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on February 07, 2015, 12:49:01 PM
I wonder what current state sign route designations in California would be had the revision to the state statute that resulted in the great renumbering not occurred. I think that most U.S. routes still would have been truncated where they are concurrent with Interstates.
The one that I've seen mentioned before is US 6 running down all of the Hollywood Freeway (the signage plans for that have been posted on here in the past) southward to get to the Four-Level, rather than the Golden State Freeway/Arroyo Seco Parkway routing that it remained on until the renumbering.
How did US 6 get to the Arroyo Seco Parkway from what I assume is modern I-5? Did westbound US 6 head that far east? Where did it end?
US 6 used modern I-5 to 110, but a move to 170/101 was planned.
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
Quote from: TheStranger on February 07, 2015, 05:43:29 PM
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on February 07, 2015, 12:49:01 PM
I wonder what current state sign route designations in California would be had the revision to the state statute that resulted in the great renumbering not occurred. I think that most U.S. routes still would have been truncated where they are concurrent with Interstates.
The one that I've seen mentioned before is US 6 running down all of the Hollywood Freeway (the signage plans for that have been posted on here in the past) southward to get to the Four-Level, rather than the Golden State Freeway/Arroyo Seco Parkway routing that it remained on until the renumbering.
1963 maps showed U.S. 6 re-routed off the Golden State onto the Hollywood. It was never actually posted that I know.
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
There's a site that covers the endpoints of U.S. Highways. Perhaps you've heard of it?
http://usends.com/Focus/LongBeach/index.html
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
The end wasn't going to change, just part of the routing. US 6 was planned, though never fully was implemented, to separate from US 99 at the present I-5/SR-170 interchange, run south along the 170 (would have been the US 6 freeway without State 170), thence onto the 101 to the Four Level Interchange, rejoining its older routing down the present 110 to Long Beach. This new routing was partially signed, though I have found no evidence of any signage changes beyond the signs posted on the south end of the 170.
Quote from: The High Plains Traveler on February 07, 2015, 12:49:01 PM
Well, that's interesting. Since I-10 occupied the pre-1964 LRN (173) for SR-26, that meant the state route would have been eliminated upon construction of the Santa Monica Freeway. So, it would not be illogical to extend the designation further east over the new Pomona Freeway. That raises the question of what the eastern terminus of SR-26 would be; would it have ended where U.S. 60 joined at Pomona, with U.S. 60 signed on the freeway to Riverside?
State 26 did extend east through East Los Angeles, though Olympic Blvd, not along the future routing of the Pomona Freeway. Next trip I'll see what the plans show for the 60/710 interchange, perhaps they may shed some more light on this plan. I have a lot more to research there.
Quote from: sdmichael on February 08, 2015, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
The end wasn't going to change, just part of the routing. US 6 was planned, though never fully was implemented, to separate from US 99 at the present I-5/SR-170 interchange, run south along the 170 (would have been the US 6 freeway without State 170), thence onto the 101 to the Four Level Interchange, rejoining its older routing down the present 110 to Long Beach. This new routing was partially signed, though I have found no evidence of any signage changes beyond the signs posted on the south end of the 170.
Here's a 1963 map showing US 6 on Lankershim, then onto the 101 Hollywood Freeway:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2Fmap-CA170-1963_zpsa8e8d75f.jpg&hash=31fda8c386579fb83aed42daab57800a49114e3b)
Quote from: MarkF on February 08, 2015, 02:13:28 AM
Quote from: sdmichael on February 08, 2015, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
The end wasn't going to change, just part of the routing. US 6 was planned, though never fully was implemented, to separate from US 99 at the present I-5/SR-170 interchange, run south along the 170 (would have been the US 6 freeway without State 170), thence onto the 101 to the Four Level Interchange, rejoining its older routing down the present 110 to Long Beach. This new routing was partially signed, though I have found no evidence of any signage changes beyond the signs posted on the south end of the 170.
Here's a 1963 map showing US 6 on Lankershim, then onto the 101 Hollywood Freeway:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2Fmap-CA170-1963_zpsa8e8d75f.jpg&hash=31fda8c386579fb83aed42daab57800a49114e3b)
However, at this time, US 6 shields were posted on the south stub of the Hollywood Freeway Extension. I've found no evidence, other than the H.M. Gousha maps that showed US 6 making the full change.
Quote from: NE2 on February 05, 2015, 07:55:51 PM
Quote from: JustDrive on February 05, 2015, 07:25:39 PM
Where would the approximate location be? The 71/Holt/Valley/Fairplex intersection?
Exactly at Holt/Valley and Fairplex.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.historicaerials.com%2Fapi%2Flayers%2F1948%2F17%2F22650%2F52331%3FETag%3D0&hash=74f635763077043e0f4b67166aef02a44312fe3c)(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.historicaerials.com%2Fapi%2Flayers%2F1948%2F17%2F22651%2F52331%3FETag%3D0&hash=d196e0a80ad486175764f7c40034fa131bef7716)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.historicaerials.com%2Fapi%2Flayers%2F1948%2F17%2F22650%2F52332%3FETag%3D0&hash=661172608a70d3f6b9a758c442d50e2b9e8a1c64)(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapps.historicaerials.com%2Fapi%2Flayers%2F1948%2F17%2F22651%2F52332%3FETag%3D0&hash=109cb0c6fb19f07c617fb12771e029a23a781b02)
Great contributions NE2 and CA-Roadologist,
First pointt, it's interesting that the old signals had stop signs on them. I guess after a certain hour at night the lights were turned off and then the stop signs were active. No longer legal to do that, as the stop sign would conflict with a green signal.
Second point, correct me if I'm wrong about the modern equivalents to NE2's photo:
To the north, Fairplex Dr and Orange Grove avenue shooting off from it;
To the south, an old alignment for what is now the 71 freeway curving toward the Pomona Blvd interchange (US 60 towards Mission Blvd);
TO the east, Holt Avenue (US 99 US 70);
To the west, Valley Blvd (which was a very old alignment for US 99 - 70 - 60 towards L.A.)
To the northwest, back at the time the photo was taken was the 99-60-70 alignment to L.A. along Garvey Avenue. Garvey Avenue is now on the right of way of the I-10 and 71 freeways between Covina and the west edge of Pomona.
Am I correct?
Quote from: mrsman on February 08, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Great contributions NE2 and CA-Roadologist,
First pointt, it's interesting that the old signals had stop signs on them. I guess after a certain hour at night the lights were turned off and then the stop signs were active. No longer legal to do that, as the stop sign would conflict with a green signal.
Am I correct?
California erected STOP signs at traffic lights routinely until about 1960. The green light was considered to override the stop sign. It was not, however, so the lights could be turned off at night; if desired, lights would go on flash at night. (I think the old Acmes in L.A. did go dark, but newer lights didn't.) Instead, it was to provide control at the intersection in the event of a power outage.
Quote from: NE2 on February 07, 2015, 11:26:59 PM
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
There's a site that covers the endpoints of U.S. Highways. Perhaps you've heard of it?
http://usends.com/Focus/LongBeach/index.html
Never heard of it.
Quote from: bugo on February 08, 2015, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 07, 2015, 11:26:59 PM
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
There's a site that covers the endpoints of U.S. Highways. Perhaps you've heard of it?
http://usends.com/Focus/LongBeach/index.html
Never heard of it.
Besides, there's no mention of US 6 following the Arroyo Seco Parkway.
Quote from: bugo on February 08, 2015, 08:30:12 PM
Quote from: bugo on February 08, 2015, 08:01:14 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 07, 2015, 11:26:59 PM
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
There's a site that covers the endpoints of U.S. Highways. Perhaps you've heard of it?
http://usends.com/Focus/LongBeach/index.html
Never heard of it.
Besides, there's no mention of US 6 following the Arroyo Seco Parkway.
US 6 followed the Arroyo Seco Parkway from San Fernando Road to the Four Level Interchange. South of there it followed the Harbor Freeway (and Figueroa St before).
Quote from: mrsman on February 08, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 05, 2015, 07:55:51 PM
Quote from: JustDrive on February 05, 2015, 07:25:39 PM
Where would the approximate location be? The 71/Holt/Valley/Fairplex intersection?
Exactly at Holt/Valley and Fairplex.
Great contributions NE2 and CA-Roadologist,
First pointt, it's interesting that the old signals had stop signs on them. I guess after a certain hour at night the lights were turned off and then the stop signs were active. No longer legal to do that, as the stop sign would conflict with a green signal.
Second point, correct me if I'm wrong about the modern equivalents to NE2's photo:
To the north, Fairplex Dr and Orange Grove avenue shooting off from it;
To the south, an old alignment for what is now the 71 freeway curving toward the Pomona Blvd interchange (US 60 towards Mission Blvd);
TO the east, Holt Avenue (US 99 US 70);
To the west, Valley Blvd (which was a very old alignment for US 99 - 70 - 60 towards L.A.)
To the northwest, back at the time the photo was taken was the 99-60-70 alignment to L.A. along Garvey Avenue. Garvey Avenue is now on the right of way of the I-10 and 71 freeways between Covina and the west edge of Pomona.
Am I correct?
Mrsman,
1. Re: your first point...I have never understood why the stop signs were still in place after the lights were installed. The only thing I can think of is when the traffic light went out, due to a malfunction, the would turn off completely because they didn't have a back up power source, then the stop signs would kick into place. Maybe an old DMV handbook from the 1940's would explain why. Years ago, many traffic lights would start blinking intermittently from 11 PM till maybe 6 AM in the morning because there was virtually no traffic out on the streets at that time. The main thoroughfare would get the flashing yellow light and the cross streets would get the red, unless they were also a busier thoroughfare, then all directions would get a flashing red light.
2. Re: second point...yes you are right about the modern equivalents to NE2's photo on all counts.
When that aerial was taken, Fairplex Ave was called Belleview Ave. Later, it was renamed Ganesha Blvd, and recently Fairplex.
I know that Valley Blvd was an old alignment of U.S. 60, but have never seen a map of it carrying U.S. 70-99 as well. Understand that the portion from the junction in the pic above and going up over Kellogg Hill had opened to traffic in 1933, so that has to be when U.S. 60 was routed there with U.S. 70-99, I'm assuming. U.S. 70 was extended from Indio to Los Angeles in 1934, and U.S. 99 was cosigned with U.S. 66 prior to being cosigned with 60 and 70. Some real research has to go into when these changes were made.
Fixed quote. --roadfro
Quote from: CaliforniaRoadologist on February 08, 2015, 09:17:43 PM
Quote from: mrsman on February 08, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 05, 2015, 07:55:51 PM
Quote from: JustDrive on February 05, 2015, 07:25:39 PM
Where would the approximate location be? The 71/Holt/Valley/Fairplex intersection?
Exactly at Holt/Valley and Fairplex.
Great contributions NE2 and CA-Roadologist,
First pointt, it's interesting that the old signals had stop signs on them. I guess after a certain hour at night the lights were turned off and then the stop signs were active. No longer legal to do that, as the stop sign would conflict with a green signal.
Second point, correct me if I'm wrong about the modern equivalents to NE2's photo:
To the north, Fairplex Dr and Orange Grove avenue shooting off from it;
To the south, an old alignment for what is now the 71 freeway curving toward the Pomona Blvd interchange (US 60 towards Mission Blvd);
TO the east, Holt Avenue (US 99 US 70);
To the west, Valley Blvd (which was a very old alignment for US 99 - 70 - 60 towards L.A.)
To the northwest, back at the time the photo was taken was the 99-60-70 alignment to L.A. along Garvey Avenue. Garvey Avenue is now on the right of way of the I-10 and 71 freeways between Covina and the west edge of Pomona.
Am I correct?
Mrsman,
1. Re: your first point...I have never understood why the stop signs were still in place after the lights were installed. The only thing I can think of is when the traffic light went out, due to a malfunction, the would turn off completely because they didn't have a back up power source, then the stop signs would kick into place. Maybe an old DMV handbook from the 1940's would explain why. Years ago, many traffic lights would start blinking intermittently from 11 PM till maybe 6 AM in the morning because there was virtually no traffic out on the streets at that time. The main thoroughfare would get the flashing yellow light and the cross streets would get the red, unless they were also a busier thoroughfare, then all directions would get a flashing red light.
2. Re: second point...yes you are right about the modern equivalents to NE2's photo on all counts.
When that aerial was taken, Fairplex Ave was called Belleview Ave. Later, it was renamed Ganesha Blvd, and recently Fairplex.
I know that Valley Blvd was an old alignment of U.S. 60, but have never seen a map of it carrying U.S. 70-99 as well. Understand that the portion from the junction in the pic above and going up over Kellogg Hill had opened to traffic in 1933, so that has to be when U.S. 60 was routed there with U.S. 70-99, I'm assuming. U.S. 70 was extended from Indio to Los Angeles in 1934, and U.S. 99 was cosigned with U.S. 66 prior to being cosigned with 60 and 70. Some real research has to go into when these changes were made.
Valley Blvd in the IE carried 70-99
Fixed quote. --roadfro
Quote from: MarkF on February 08, 2015, 02:13:28 AM
Quote from: sdmichael on February 08, 2015, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
The end wasn't going to change, just part of the routing. US 6 was planned, though never fully was implemented, to separate from US 99 at the present I-5/SR-170 interchange, run south along the 170 (would have been the US 6 freeway without State 170), thence onto the 101 to the Four Level Interchange, rejoining its older routing down the present 110 to Long Beach. This new routing was partially signed, though I have found no evidence of any signage changes beyond the signs posted on the south end of the 170.
Here's a 1963 map showing US 6 on Lankershim, then onto the 101 Hollywood Freeway:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2Fmap-CA170-1963_zpsa8e8d75f.jpg&hash=31fda8c386579fb83aed42daab57800a49114e3b)
Mark, do you have a continuation of this map to the north to show US 6 connecting up with US 99? Until now, I've never seen a map that showed US 6 on Lankershim (even though it may or may not have been signed).
Quote from: andy3175 on February 08, 2015, 09:24:39 PM
Quote from: MarkF on February 08, 2015, 02:13:28 AM
Quote from: sdmichael on February 08, 2015, 01:21:04 AM
Quote from: bugo on February 07, 2015, 11:16:44 PM
That's bizarre. Where did US 6 end when it was signed along the Arroyo Seco Parkway?
The end wasn't going to change, just part of the routing. US 6 was planned, though never fully was implemented, to separate from US 99 at the present I-5/SR-170 interchange, run south along the 170 (would have been the US 6 freeway without State 170), thence onto the 101 to the Four Level Interchange, rejoining its older routing down the present 110 to Long Beach. This new routing was partially signed, though I have found no evidence of any signage changes beyond the signs posted on the south end of the 170.
Here's a 1963 map showing US 6 on Lankershim, then onto the 101 Hollywood Freeway:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2Fmap-CA170-1963_zpsa8e8d75f.jpg&hash=31fda8c386579fb83aed42daab57800a49114e3b)
Mark, do you have a continuation of this map to the north to show US 6 connecting up with US 99? Until now, I've never seen a map that showed US 6 on Lankershim (even though it may or may not have been signed).
That is the top of that map, a Standard Oil street map of Los Angeles. Here is the overall L.A. area map showing US 6 coming off at Lankershim:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi96.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl200%2Fmrkf%2F1962-US6-SFVa_zpsb531c6d6.jpg&hash=f3694b609685f05a25963deba5bd50a0bfbc585d)
I have a 1964 Long Beach map with the same overall LA map, but with the old numbers in grey.
Interesting that in the above map, US 99 is on the Golden State Freeway corridor coming in from Newhall, goes to SF Rd between Sylmar and Sun Valley and then resumes the freeway corrdior all the way to Downtown LA.
I guess signage must have been in constant flux during the golden era of freeway building in So Cal.
Quote from: mrsman on February 12, 2015, 08:38:59 PM
Interesting that in the above map, US 99 is on the Golden State Freeway corridor coming in from Newhall, goes to SF Rd between Sylmar and Sun Valley and then resumes the freeway corrdior all the way to Downtown LA.
I guess signage must have been in constant flux during the golden era of freeway building in So Cal.
That map does have errors. US 99 was signed on the Golden State Freeway until its final removal in 1968. I have photos to prove it on my http://www.socalregion.com/highways/la_highways/i-5/ (http://www.socalregion.com/highways/la_highways/i-5/) I-5 page.