I'm older than every single turnpike service plaza that I've been in except for ones that have already been demolished. What is the oldest one still in use? And for bonus points, which have gone longest without major renovations i.e. not just switching food vendors?
I can tell you that it's not in New York. All of ours were rebuilt in the late 80s, 90s, and early 2000s (most recently Angola, IIRC). I think that, by this point, all of Ontario's and Ohio's have been rebuilt or are in the process of being rebuilt.
By the way the reasons I put this is the pictures section is because thread is useless without pix!
I'd presume probably one of the ones on the original segment of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, perhaps Midway?
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2015, 08:30:32 PM
I'd presume probably one of the ones on the original segment of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, perhaps Midway?
South Midway was renovated several years back. North Midway is currently closed for a rehab.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 05, 2015, 08:34:11 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 05, 2015, 08:30:32 PM
I'd presume probably one of the ones on the original segment of the Pennsylvania Turnpike, perhaps Midway?
South Midway was renovated several years back. North Midway is currently closed for a rehab.
But he also said oldest one still in use. I interpreted that as being a separate question from the issue of not having major renovations.
On the NJTP, while I'm pretty sure most if not all of the main plaza buildings were rebuilt or extensively renovated, some still have separate "snack bar" structures that don't seem to have changed much since they were built. In fact, one of them, at least until recently, still had the words "Snack Bar" in the original Howard Johnson's neon. Can anyone confirm?
And for an example that doesn't count, one of the EB plazas on the PATP was recently rebuilt, but with the exterior structure preserved, complete with the dormer windows.
I know a lot of the Mass Pike ones have been redone a few times, but there is one on 128 north (east) in Beverly that looks incredibly old.
Of course I guess I missed the concept of the thread being a turnpike service plaza...
I suppose non-turnpike service plazas are in play too, but they cannot be just gas stations with a McDs in them or be 100% privately-owned. I just didn't think that there were very many non-TPK ones.
The Indiana Toll Road still has a snack bar in use, but it is not used for its original intended purpose. The state police post at MM 72 (near US-31) was a snack bar until the 1970s. The building remains, but the state police use it for their HQ now.
GSV: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.730324,-86.323048&spn=0.001698,0.002642&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=41.730539,-86.323094&panoid=-8hRIQu_RtOjweBcfMwG1g&cbp=12,182.15,,1,1.3
Aerial: https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=41.729719,-86.323037&spn=0.001699,0.002642&t=h&z=19
Quote from: Cjzani on January 05, 2015, 10:46:17 PM
I know a lot of the Mass Pike ones have been redone a few times, but there is one on 128 north (east) in Beverly that looks incredibly old.
The building that houses a Burger King & Subway at the Beverly Plaza was probably a HoJos in its former life.
All of the ones in CT have been totally rebuilt within the last couple years or a are currently closed for renovations.
All of the ones in Maine were rebuilt within the last 5-6 years.
The plaza in Beverly on MA-128 may still be the original. I think the service areas on MA-24 in Bridgewater are also around the same age as the Beverly one.
In NJ, the Vince is still in the original building, though altered many times over the years. Some of the small service areas on the northern stretch of the GSP certainly seem old enough to be original.
Aren't there some very old, small service areas on the Turner Tpk in Oklahoma that are still largely original?
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 06, 2015, 10:23:51 AMThe plaza in Beverly on MA-128 may still be the original. I think the service areas on MA-24 in Bridgewater are also around the same age as the Beverly one.
I believe that the ones along MA 24 were redone around the same time that the I-495 cloverleaf was constructed (early 1980s).
I believe the last of the original service plazas on the Ohio Turnpike has recently been demolished -- the ones on the I-76 stretch near Youngstown. I believe all the others have been rebuilt from the ground up already.
What about the Vince Lombardi service plaza near the north end of the New Jersey Turnpike?
I got the impression (perhaps incorrect) that this plaza was rather old and worn, unlike most of the rest of the Turnpike plazas, which seem reasonably current.
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 06, 2015, 09:51:39 AM
Quote from: Cjzani on January 05, 2015, 10:46:17 PM
I know a lot of the Mass Pike ones have been redone a few times, but there is one on 128 north (east) in Beverly that looks incredibly old.
The building that houses a Burger King & Subway at the Beverly Plaza was probably a HoJos in its former life.
Correct. All the service plazas in Massachusetts, including the ones on the Mass. Pike, were originally HoJos. However, the MA 128 one in Beverly is the only plaza that hasn't had significant changes to the original building when ownership changed.
Quote from: thenetwork on January 06, 2015, 11:08:51 AM
I believe the last of the original service plazas on the Ohio Turnpike has recently been demolished -- the ones on the I-76 stretch near Youngstown. I believe all the others have been rebuilt from the ground up already.
All except the second set between the Indiana state line and Toledo. Those are just empty paved areas currently.
All of the ISTHA ones were rebuilt from the girders up back in 2004 with the exception of the DeKalb Oasis. That one was just renovated (in 2004 instead of rebuilt) and is now the oldest oasis building on the ISTHA system (dating from 1975).
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 05, 2015, 10:52:53 PM
I suppose non-turnpike service plazas are in play too, but they cannot be just gas stations with a McDs in them or be 100% privately-owned. I just didn't think that there were very many non-TPK ones.
I guess this disqualifies the little ones on the Merritt Parkway, whose recently-renovated buildings are still very old.
The buildings on the Connecticut Turnpike were replaced recently, but does anyone remember if their predecessors were just renovated when converted to McDonald's in the 1980s, or replaced from the ground up?
Quote from: thenetwork on January 06, 2015, 11:08:51 AM
I believe the last of the original service plazas on the Ohio Turnpike has recently been demolished -- the ones on the I-76 stretch near Youngstown. I believe all the others have been rebuilt from the ground up already.
Looks like the new facility was already complete when the Google car drove by in September '14. The 2008 drive-by shows a vastly different structure.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2015, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 05, 2015, 10:52:53 PM
I suppose non-turnpike service plazas are in play too, but they cannot be just gas stations with a McDs in them or be 100% privately-owned. I just didn't think that there were very many non-TPK ones.
I guess this disqualifies the little ones on the Merritt Parkway, whose recently-renovated buildings are still very old.
The buildings on the Connecticut Turnpike were replaced recently, but does anyone remember if their predecessors were just renovated when converted to McDonald's in the 1980s, or replaced from the ground up?
The interiors were just renovated. The structures themselves were the originals from 1957.
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 06, 2015, 10:23:51 AM
Aren't there some very old, small service areas on the Turner Tpk in Oklahoma that are still largely original?
Two service plazas on the Turner have been demolished in recent years and will not be rebuilt: WB at Wellston http://goo.gl/maps/oxyB2 (http://goo.gl/maps/oxyB2) and EB at Bristow http://goo.gl/maps/Gfy6C (http://goo.gl/maps/Gfy6C). There is a gas station-only service area still open on WB near Bristow. http://goo.gl/maps/qzNSQ (http://goo.gl/maps/qzNSQ)
The only other service plaza remaining on the Turner Turnpike is near Stroud. http://goo.gl/maps/j5ks4 (http://goo.gl/maps/j5ks4)
The Indian Nation Turnpike has 3 service areas: 2 of which are quite old and the other just opened in McAlester last month.
Antlers: http://goo.gl/maps/uQSjt
Dustin: http://goo.gl/maps/Mq3rc
McAlester (when construction was in progress on the now-southbound lanes): http://goo.gl/maps/Nb4uj
Quote from: okroads on January 06, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 06, 2015, 10:23:51 AM
Aren't there some very old, small service areas on the Turner Tpk in Oklahoma that are still largely original?
Two service plazas on the Turner have been demolished in recent years and will not be rebuilt: WB at Wellston http://goo.gl/maps/oxyB2 (http://goo.gl/maps/oxyB2) and EB at Bristow http://goo.gl/maps/Gfy6C (http://goo.gl/maps/Gfy6C). There is a gas station-only service area still open on WB near Bristow. http://goo.gl/maps/qzNSQ (http://goo.gl/maps/qzNSQ)
The only other service plaza remaining on the Turner Turnpike is near Stroud. http://goo.gl/maps/j5ks4 (http://goo.gl/maps/j5ks4)
The Oklahoma (https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3699661,-98.4098971,384m/data=!3m1!1e3) and Kansas (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.4710044,-96.1850423,288m/data=!3m1!1e3) ones struck me as a bit strange. I'm used to having one main building for the food and shop with an outbuilding for fuel like in Illinois (http://www.google.com/maps/@41.5786478,-87.5996757,293m/data=!3m1!1e3), Indiana (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5879284,-87.21703,391m/data=!3m1!1e3), or Ohio (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6044515,-84.4083778,384m/data=!3m1!1e3). Those in Oklahoma and Kansas looked like each vendor built their own on the site.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 06, 2015, 12:37:58 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on January 06, 2015, 11:08:51 AM
I believe the last of the original service plazas on the Ohio Turnpike has recently been demolished -- the ones on the I-76 stretch near Youngstown. I believe all the others have been rebuilt from the ground up already.
Looks like the new facility was already complete when the Google car drove by in September '14. The 2008 drive-by shows a vastly different structure.
The Glacier Hills (EB) and Mahoning Valley (WB) Service Plazas opened in their current form on May 22, 2013. This makes sense as they were empty lots when I passed by in November 2012 but I stopped there for lunch in June 2013.
Source: http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/may/04/relief-ahead-new-turnpike-plazas-to-open/ (http://www.vindy.com/news/2013/may/04/relief-ahead-new-turnpike-plazas-to-open/)
Not sure if the service area on the Western Kentucky Parkway has been rebuilt or not.
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 06, 2015, 02:00:08 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 06, 2015, 12:35:17 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 05, 2015, 10:52:53 PM
I suppose non-turnpike service plazas are in play too, but they cannot be just gas stations with a McDs in them or be 100% privately-owned. I just didn't think that there were very many non-TPK ones.
I guess this disqualifies the little ones on the Merritt Parkway, whose recently-renovated buildings are still very old.
The buildings on the Connecticut Turnpike were replaced recently, but does anyone remember if their predecessors were just renovated when converted to McDonald's in the 1980s, or replaced from the ground up?
The interiors were just renovated. The structures themselves were the originals from 1957.
Interesting. I remember the renovations happening right around the time of the toll removal, but we tended to take the toll-free roads in those days. Do you recall what was in there just prior to McDonald's?
The service areas on I-95 were converted into McDs in 1985. Before that (1975-1985) they were Howard Johnson's. I think the HoJos were all cafeteria-style on the turnpike. Before 1975 they were run, I think, by Interstate Host.
Before the current renovations, the plazas on I-395 and CT-15 did not have restaurants, just gas.
Here's some oldies of service plazas on the Will Rogers Turnpike -- Glass House and Interstate Host:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/94207108@N02/14315103305/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/94207108@N02/14315103305/in/photostream/)
What happened to these structures?
When I was a kid in the '80s a lot of stuff was still left over from the '50s and '60s unrenovated. By 1995 most of it was wiped out. Things certainly get remodeled much more often today. Here's an Illinois Turnpike Oasis HoJo pic representing what kind of photos I was fishing for:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.panix.com%2F%7Erbean%2Foasis%2Fhojo%2Fhojo-inside.jpg&hash=d0d447e6a1dd0ac81f2eaaa000c042427484e1bd)
That 60s Atomic Age architecture, kinda ugly as it was, has some charm to it.
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 06, 2015, 08:42:18 PM
The service areas on I-95 were converted into McDs in 1985. Before that (1975-1985) they were Howard Johnson's. I think the HoJos were all cafeteria-style on the turnpike. Before 1975 they were run, I think, by Interstate Host.
Before the current renovations, the plazas on I-395 and CT-15 did not have restaurants, just gas.
I had to get my head around Dunkin' Donuts or Subway being truly restaurants for a minute, but I guess they qualify. The primary seating faces your speedometer, though.
The Merritt/W.C. ones actually had a little (disused) garage bay at some or all of them, as did the Turnpike areas. I know there are none on the parkways anymore, and would be surprised if the new Turnpike areas had them.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 06, 2015, 09:19:49 PM
When I was a kid in the '80s a lot of stuff was still left over from the '50s and '60s unrenovated. By 1995 most of it was wiped out. Things certainly get remodeled much more often today. Here's an Illinois Turnpike Oasis HoJo pic representing what kind of photos I was fishing for:
I finally just got to an Oasis and, realizing they are not the old buildings, declined to stop. Hell of a picture you have there.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 06, 2015, 09:19:49 PM
When I was a kid in the '80s a lot of stuff was still left over from the '50s and '60s unrenovated. By 1995 most of it was wiped out. Things certainly get remodeled much more often today.
If you're talking about unrenovated plazas with original décor and fittings, I doubt that anything of the kind is left. The '80s saw a massive wave of service plaza renovation for a few major reasons. One is that the plaza structures were reaching 30 or 40 years of age by then, and many suffered from deferred maintenance, needing repair and renovation just to remain viable.
The other reason is that the original 30 or 40-year concession contracts were coming up for renewal, and in nearly every case, the dying Howard Johnson company was dumped in favor of fast food franchises, which were exploding in popularity at the time. Accordingly, sit-down dining rooms originally configured for table service had to be extensively reworked to accommodate a fast food setup.
About renovation cycles in general, though, I don't know that they're accelerating much if at all. At least using the PA Turnpike as an example: The original plazas were built roughly between 1940 and 1950. Then they were remodeled (poorly, I might add) for fast food about 30-40 years later (1980-90). And now they've recently been reconstructed–about 30 years later (2010-15). They seem to be keeping an approximately 30-year cycle.
^I mean in general spaces get remolded more often; not turnpike plazas specifically. If something looks "too '90s" today it will get renovated, ore even "too early 2000s". Whereas growing up in the '80s I was constantly in '50-'70s environments. There was still tons of pea green shag carpeting around in 1990.
I remember when most, if not all of the Ohio Turnpike service areas were HoJos up until the early 80s (if not the late 70s). And for as many times my family drove the Turnpike between Cleveland & Toledo, I can remember the gift shops, Sohio service stations (with service garages), the restrooms with the coin-op shoe shiners & vending machines (even selling little toy compasses and plastic telescopes), but darned if I cannot remember the setup that HoJos had (cafeteria or casual sit-down).
Quote from: thenetwork on January 06, 2015, 10:54:06 PM
I remember when most, if not all of the Ohio Turnpike service areas were HoJos up until the early 80s (if not the late 70s). And for as many times my family drove the Turnpike between Cleveland & Toledo, I can remember the gift shops, Sohio service stations (with service garages), the restrooms with the coin-op shoe shiners & vending machines (even selling little toy compasses and plastic telescopes), but darned if I cannot remember the setup that HoJos had (cafeteria or casual sit-down).
My recollection of the HoJos on both Ohio and Pensy Turnpikes was that they were exclusively cafeteria style. I clearly recall the rows of rubber Jello on display. Like most travelers, we learned to alter our travel plans to find food away from the HoJos, which is what eventually brought about their demise.
Now that I think of it the HoJos on the WV TPK varied. The large single southbound plaza was sit-down while the two smaller northbounds were cafeteria-style I believe. Or maybe you could also get sit-down at the two northbound ones.
I can't help but feel that terrible built-to-a-price school lunches played a major factor in the decline of the popularity of cafeterias. People who are over 70 now patronized cafeterias heavily in the past and still support the few that are still open -- their schools didn't have cafeterias. Fast-causal places are cafeterias too. They just specialize in one or two major ingredients and cook massive amounts of them at a time.
My recollection (late 1960s - early 1970s) of the HoJos on the Jersey Turnpike was that they were traditional sit-down. Part of the restaurant was booths and the other part was a counter with stools. Of course, we never ate there except for ocassionally getting ice cream after we finished our packed lunches in the car.
Even now, I remember looking at those Winross toy trucks behind the counter and wanting one so badly. Never was able to convince my parents to buy me one (or for Santa to give me one as a Christmas present) though.
Nowadays almost no one packs lunches for travel.
What is the story with the Colonia Service Areas and the Brookdale NB Service Areas on the GSP? They seem to be really odd. Colonia has two separate gas stations on each side and seems to operate very differently from the other areas in the state (no gas proce controls, etc...). Brookdale NB is possibly the only service area I know of that not only doesn't have food but also has no public restrooms. Why are these areas so strange?
Quote from: Beeper1 on January 06, 2015, 08:42:18 PM
The service areas on I-95 were converted into McDs in 1985. Before that (1975-1985) they were Howard Johnson's. I think the HoJos were all cafeteria-style on the turnpike. Before 1975 they were run, I think, by Interstate Host.
Before the current renovations, the plazas on I-395 and CT-15 did not have restaurants, just gas.
I've seen photographic evidence that the original service area restaurant provider was Savarin. It was HoJo's next, then McDonald's, now the present Subway. The original buildings constructed lasted until the present contract to reconstruct the service areas. While most were complete tear-downs, the Montville-SB and Plainfield-NB/SB buildings were gutted and rebuilt, not torn down. Same hold true for the Merritt/WCP service plazas.
And for those playing along at home, all turnpike plazas have been rebuilt and open except Fairfield-SB and Madison-SB, both which should open sometime this winter or spring, I'd guess.
During the early 80s, I remember seeing the original turnpike signage for the service plazas, which displayed FOOD / FUEL with McDonalds and a Mobil logo. The Mobil logo was covering up a former Sunoco logo. But at least since 1982, if not longer, Mobil has been the provider of fuel on the turnpike.
And there used to be service areas on the WCP in Vernon, too. Those are LONNNNNGGGGG gone, but they were very similar to those on the rest of the Merritt/WCP system.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 06, 2015, 09:19:49 PM
When I was a kid in the '80s a lot of stuff was still left over from the '50s and '60s unrenovated. By 1995 most of it was wiped out. Things certainly get remodeled much more often today. Here's an Illinois Turnpike Oasis HoJo pic representing what kind of photos I was fishing for:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.panix.com%2F%7Erbean%2Foasis%2Fhojo%2Fhojo-inside.jpg&hash=d0d447e6a1dd0ac81f2eaaa000c042427484e1bd)
Wow, I remember those ceilings back in the 1980s and 1990s, prior to the oases being completely rebuilt from the bridge girders up. The decor may be left over from the Fred Harvey restaurants the oases opened with in 1958 (1967 for the Lincoln Oasis).
I am drawing a blank, the Mass Pike up until around 2000 had a decent fast food restaurant in some of the rest areas. One example, the eastbound one in Charlton that abutted US 20. Was it Roy Rogers?
Quote from: Cjzani on January 07, 2015, 08:37:02 PM
I am drawing a blank, the Mass Pike up until around 2000 had a decent fast food restaurant in some of the rest areas. One example, the eastbound one in Charlton that abutted US 20. Was it Roy Rogers?
Probably. Every Roy Rogers I've eaten at is on the Thruway or was on the Mass Pike.
Quote from: Cjzani on January 07, 2015, 08:37:02 PM
I am drawing a blank, the Mass Pike up until around 2000 had a decent fast food restaurant in some of the rest areas. One example, the eastbound one in Charlton that abutted US 20. Was it Roy Rogers?
I'm not sure, but it would seem likely. All nine plazas were at one time Howard Johnson's, and after Marriott (who created the Roy Rogers chain) bought the Howard Johnson company in 1985, all nine were converted to Roy Rogers...at least according to this unverifiable list (https://www.flickr.com/groups/royrogers/discuss/72157605953381633/) that contains a lot of other information that I know is accurate.
Quote from: Cjzani on January 07, 2015, 08:37:02 PM
I am drawing a blank, the Mass Pike up until around 2000 had a decent fast food restaurant in some of the rest areas. One example, the eastbound one in Charlton that abutted US 20. Was it Roy Rogers?
Charlton East had a Roy Rogers. They had a fire in about 1998 and closed permanently, since Marriott lost the contract shortly thereafter. A temporary Roy's trailer operated in the parking lot for a year or so after that.
Damn, this all has me craving a Double-R-Bar Burger.
I want a damn Howard Johnson's grilled cheese sandwich.
Get driving. Lake Placid, Lake George, and Bangor are all that's left, and they're sort of on the make-your-own-menu plan. Bundle up.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 07, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
Get driving. Lake Placid, Lake George, and Bangor are all that's left, and they're sort of on the make-your-own-menu plan. Bundle up.
Lake George had closed a couple years ago, but it supposedly reopened. I have vivid memories of going there when I was growing up. Ice cream was good, but service would have been faster if I killed the cow and butchered it myself.
It's rumored on fan sites that Bangor will be closing and Lake Placid is supposedly up for sale.
No road trips for me these days. Only one day off work at a time with no vacations. I own a business that is only closed on Christmas.
Quote from: shadyjay on January 07, 2015, 04:42:01 PM
And for those playing along at home, all turnpike plazas have been rebuilt and open except Fairfield-SB and Madison-SB, both which should open sometime this winter or spring, I'd guess.
During the early 80s, I remember seeing the original turnpike signage for the service plazas, which displayed FOOD / FUEL with McDonalds and a Mobil logo. The Mobil logo was covering up a former Sunoco logo. But at least since 1982, if not longer, Mobil has been the provider of fuel on the turnpike.
And there used to be service areas on the WCP in Vernon, too. Those are LONNNNNGGGGG gone, but they were very similar to those on the rest of the Merritt/WCP system.
The WCP also had a set of service areas in Union, just west of Exit 74. They were eliminated the same time as the Vernon areas, when the highway was modernized. They were also small and looked like the parkway areas.
I think one set on the Merritt Parkway (New Caanan?) is still closed for renovations?
Yup, New Canaan on the Merritt is still closed, according to ctserviceplazas.com.
I never remembered Roy Rogers on the MassPike. I do remember the Burger King restaurants and was psyched when they were upgraded to McDonalds. It also brought food service to Bandford-East and Lee-West, which previously had just fuel service. I think the only 2 times I ate at a Roy Rogers was once on the NJ Tpke at about 3am and once on the Thruway.
Before being renovated into McDs in the early 2000s, the Newton and Lexington plazas on I-95/MA-128 were Roy Rogers.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 07, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
...and they're sort of on the make-your-own-menu plan...
I believe you were alluding to it, but since all of their trademark foods were prepared in regional commissaries, frozen, and then trucked to the restaurants, Howard Johnson's already died when the commissaries closed. The two or three that remain are basically independent diners that happen to be located in an old Howard Johnson's.
Quote from: shadyjay on January 08, 2015, 12:14:24 AM
Yup, New Canaan on the Merritt is still closed, according to ctserviceplazas.com.
I never remembered Roy Rogers on the MassPike. I do remember the Burger King restaurants and was psyched when they were upgraded to McDonalds. It also brought food service to Bandford-East and Lee-West, which previously had just fuel service. I think the only 2 times I ate at a Roy Rogers was once on the NJ Tpke at about 3am and once on the Thruway.
The Ludlow plaza had a Roy Rogers. I'm positive there was one westbound, but I'm pretty sure there was one eastbound as well. The westbound one was cafeteria style, as I recall.
I drove from Exit 10 to the western end quite a bit in the early 90s. Going westbound Charlton had Burger King, Ludlow had Roy Rogers, Blandford had Burger King, and Lee was gas and vending only. I'm less positive of them going eastbound - I guess going back to school I would stop for fast food, but coming home I wouldn't bother because I could have my mom's cooking. My best recollection of eastbound is that Lee had BK, Blandford was gas/vending only, Ludlow had Roy Rogers and Charlton had BK.
Quote from: spooky on January 08, 2015, 07:16:11 AM
Quote from: shadyjay on January 08, 2015, 12:14:24 AM
Yup, New Canaan on the Merritt is still closed, according to ctserviceplazas.com.
I never remembered Roy Rogers on the MassPike. I do remember the Burger King restaurants and was psyched when they were upgraded to McDonalds. It also brought food service to Bandford-East and Lee-West, which previously had just fuel service. I think the only 2 times I ate at a Roy Rogers was once on the NJ Tpke at about 3am and once on the Thruway.
The Ludlow plaza had a Roy Rogers. I'm positive there was one westbound, but I'm pretty sure there was one eastbound as well. The westbound one was cafeteria style, as I recall.
I drove from Exit 10 to the western end quite a bit in the early 90s. Going westbound Charlton had Burger King, Ludlow had Roy Rogers, Blandford had Burger King, and Lee was gas and vending only. I'm less positive of them going eastbound - I guess going back to school I would stop for fast food, but coming home I wouldn't bother because I could have my mom's cooking. My best recollection of eastbound is that Lee had BK, Blandford was gas/vending only, Ludlow had Roy Rogers and Charlton had BK.
I'm basing Charlton East having Roy's on the fact that they had a Roy's trailer after the fire. My pre-fire memory of that building is less clear.
Framingham (westbound) had a BK and a Big Boy, but is it possible they also had a Roy's? I remember another fast food operation in there.
Westborough (westbound only) had a Sbarro and possibly a Popeye's. It was an oddball of the lot, with a different layout of building as well.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 08, 2015, 08:00:24 AM
Quote from: spooky on January 08, 2015, 07:16:11 AM
Quote from: shadyjay on January 08, 2015, 12:14:24 AM
Yup, New Canaan on the Merritt is still closed, according to ctserviceplazas.com.
I never remembered Roy Rogers on the MassPike. I do remember the Burger King restaurants and was psyched when they were upgraded to McDonalds. It also brought food service to Bandford-East and Lee-West, which previously had just fuel service. I think the only 2 times I ate at a Roy Rogers was once on the NJ Tpke at about 3am and once on the Thruway.
The Ludlow plaza had a Roy Rogers. I'm positive there was one westbound, but I'm pretty sure there was one eastbound as well. The westbound one was cafeteria style, as I recall.
I drove from Exit 10 to the western end quite a bit in the early 90s. Going westbound Charlton had Burger King, Ludlow had Roy Rogers, Blandford had Burger King, and Lee was gas and vending only. I'm less positive of them going eastbound - I guess going back to school I would stop for fast food, but coming home I wouldn't bother because I could have my mom's cooking. My best recollection of eastbound is that Lee had BK, Blandford was gas/vending only, Ludlow had Roy Rogers and Charlton had BK.
I'm basing Charlton East having Roy's on the fact that they had a Roy's trailer after the fire. My pre-fire memory of that building is less clear.
Framingham (westbound) had a BK and a Big Boy, but is it possible they also had a Roy's? I remember another fast food operation in there.
Westborough (westbound only) had a Sbarro and possibly a Popeye's. It was an oddball of the lot, with a different layout of building as well.
I missed your earlier post about the fire and the Roy Rogers trailer. Like I said, my memory is not as sharp on the eastbound plazas.
In the late 90s I was taking a lot of trips from I-495 to Pittsfield, but by then the service plaza renovations were under way. I can confirm the oddball Westborough plaza. That one is still an oddball of sorts because it is grade separated and not really visible from the highway.
Courtesy of the 'ole Wayback machine...
https://web.archive.org/web/20000609192711/http://www.masspike.com/t_traveler/service.html#char
Quote from: shadyjay on January 08, 2015, 10:18:00 AM
Courtesy of the 'ole Wayback machine...
https://web.archive.org/web/20000609192711/http://www.masspike.com/t_traveler/service.html#char
Thanks. You beat me to it.
So there was a Popeye's, but it was the second fast-food offering at Framingham, not Westborough.
Quote from: briantroutman on January 08, 2015, 03:04:39 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 07, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
...and they're sort of on the make-your-own-menu plan...
I believe you were alluding to it, but since all of their trademark foods were prepared in regional commissaries, frozen, and then trucked to the restaurants, Howard Johnson's already died when the commissaries closed. The two or three that remain are basically independent diners that happen to be located in an old Howard Johnson's.
So the food will most likely be from GFS or Sysco then.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 08, 2015, 10:22:15 AM
Quote from: briantroutman on January 08, 2015, 03:04:39 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 07, 2015, 10:06:07 PM
...and they're sort of on the make-your-own-menu plan...
I believe you were alluding to it, but since all of their trademark foods were prepared in regional commissaries, frozen, and then trucked to the restaurants, Howard Johnson's already died when the commissaries closed. The two or three that remain are basically independent diners that happen to be located in an old Howard Johnson's.
So the food will most likely be from GFS or Sysco then.
I try to enjoy the illusion whenever in an old HoJo's rather than dwell too much on where the food came from.
Quote from: spooky on January 08, 2015, 08:20:08 AM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 08, 2015, 08:00:24 AM
Quote from: spooky on January 08, 2015, 07:16:11 AM
Quote from: shadyjay on January 08, 2015, 12:14:24 AM
Yup, New Canaan on the Merritt is still closed, according to ctserviceplazas.com.
I never remembered Roy Rogers on the MassPike. I do remember the Burger King restaurants and was psyched when they were upgraded to McDonalds. It also brought food service to Bandford-East and Lee-West, which previously had just fuel service. I think the only 2 times I ate at a Roy Rogers was once on the NJ Tpke at about 3am and once on the Thruway.
The Ludlow plaza had a Roy Rogers. I'm positive there was one westbound, but I'm pretty sure there was one eastbound as well. The westbound one was cafeteria style, as I recall.
I drove from Exit 10 to the western end quite a bit in the early 90s. Going westbound Charlton had Burger King, Ludlow had Roy Rogers, Blandford had Burger King, and Lee was gas and vending only. I'm less positive of them going eastbound - I guess going back to school I would stop for fast food, but coming home I wouldn't bother because I could have my mom's cooking. My best recollection of eastbound is that Lee had BK, Blandford was gas/vending only, Ludlow had Roy Rogers and Charlton had BK.
I'm basing Charlton East having Roy's on the fact that they had a Roy's trailer after the fire. My pre-fire memory of that building is less clear.
Framingham (westbound) had a BK and a Big Boy, but is it possible they also had a Roy's? I remember another fast food operation in there.
Westborough (westbound only) had a Sbarro and possibly a Popeye's. It was an oddball of the lot, with a different layout of building as well.
I missed your earlier post about the fire and the Roy Rogers trailer. Like I said, my memory is not as sharp on the eastbound plazas.
In the late 90s I was taking a lot of trips from I-495 to Pittsfield, but by then the service plaza renovations were under way. I can confirm the oddball Westborough plaza. That one is still an oddball of sorts because it is grade separated and not really visible from the highway.
Westborough is an oddball because it wasn't built at the same time as the other plazas on the Pike. All the others are original to when the road opened in the late 50s. The Westborough Plaza was built in the mid/late 60s after I-495 and its interchange opened. Planners knew there would be an increase in traffic on that section of the Pike and felt that another plaza was needed. I guess they didn't feel it would be as much of an issue for eastbound, as the 38 miles between Charlton and Natick is still the longest distance between services on the MassPike.
On trips from New York and beyond, that 38 miles is *exactly* where I get tired.
It's somewhere between impractical and not in demand, but it sure would be nice to have a loop ramp to/from the eastbound Pike and the Westborough Plaza.
I remember both Roy Rodgers and BK on the MassPike very well. IIRC, at that time the principal food brands available at plazas were staggered. So, you'd have BK at one plaza, and TriggerBurger at the next one, then BK at the following one, etc..
Quote from: shadyjay on January 08, 2015, 10:18:00 AM
Courtesy of the 'ole Wayback machine...
https://web.archive.org/web/20000609192711/http://www.masspike.com/t_traveler/service.html#char
I know some people prefer McDonald's, but damn the quality of choice went downhill since then.
While it's not a US turnpike, I came across a reference to some of the original Autobahn service area facilities still being in use at Michendorf and Hermsdorf (http://www.thirdreichruins.com/misc_sites2.htm). Sadly, no GSV coverage at either locale.
Maryland House came close to be one. However we all know that since last year, a brand new building now houses the iconic service area. That original structure had to be in service for over 50 years.
Anybody got any theories on why we bulldoze these rather than rehab? Why can't anything in the U.S. last more than 30 years? While some may deny it, it is damaging to people's psyche to see so many structures from their childhood destroyed. People in other countries know this.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 29, 2015, 09:41:32 PM
Anybody got any theories on why we bulldoze these rather than rehab? Why can't anything in the U.S. last more than 30 years? While some may deny it, it is damaging to people's psyche to see so many structures from their childhood destroyed. People in other countries know this.
Yes. It is cheaper and easier to build new. Ask any contractor who has had to deal with a century of bad/changed/obsolete motives manifested in an old house. It's a shitload of expensive work.
Old buildings were designed around old habits. In buildings that exist specifically to house a marketing concept (like a rest area or stadium), this is particularly true.
And people in other countries
believe your assertion rather than know it, because it is the custom they're used to. Here that is not the case. We're a pretty young society–our collective psyche is a little different.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 29, 2015, 09:50:09 PM
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 29, 2015, 09:41:32 PM
Anybody got any theories on why we bulldoze these rather than rehab? Why can't anything in the U.S. last more than 30 years? While some may deny it, it is damaging to people's psyche to see so many structures from their childhood destroyed. People in other countries know this.
Yes. It is cheaper and easier to build new. Ask any contractor who has had to deal with a century of bad/changed/obsolete motives manifested in an old house. It's a shitload of expensive work.
Old buildings were designed around old habits. In buildings that exist specifically to house a marketing concept (like a rest area or stadium), this is particularly true.
And people in other countries believe your assertion rather than know it, because it is the custom they're used to. Here that is not the case. We're a pretty young society–our collective psyche is a little different.
As an engineer, I can affirm this. Heck of a lot cheaper (and faster) to tear down and build new, partly because the old building doesn't have to painstakingly be brought up to code. If a renovation touches enough of a building, the entire thing has to become ADA and compliant with current codes. For some of these moderately-old buildings, it just isn't worth it. There's also a difference between a building that is 50-60 years old and one that is over 80. If it's that old, you'll try to keep it because of the historic value. Just look at New York, New England, and Washington.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 29, 2015, 09:50:09 PM
And people in other countries believe your assertion rather than know it, because it is the custom they're used to. Here that is not the case. We're a pretty young society–our collective psyche is a little different.
Sorry, I don't subscribe to "snowflake Americans" theory. We are not different than other nationalities. We are all people and are not special.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 29, 2015, 10:21:14 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 29, 2015, 09:50:09 PM
And people in other countries believe your assertion rather than know it, because it is the custom they're used to. Here that is not the case. We're a pretty young society–our collective psyche is a little different.
Sorry, I don't subscribe to "snowflake Americans" theory. We are not different than other nationalities. We are all people and are not special.
I don't know what "snowflake Americans" means. I know every society possesses its own history that shapes its worldview. You tacitly acknowledged this when you contrasted us with "people in other countries."
We do not have anywhere close to the amount of thousand-plus-year-old buildings, monuments, etc., that many societies have. We have practically created a wave of extremely accelerated technological change, and a culture of manufacture and newness that celebrates innovation and replacement.
No one did this to us. We created and followed this path. It's a part of our cultural DNA. I'm not sure why you insinuate that our values are or should be what some other societies' are.
Quote from: cl94 on January 29, 2015, 09:59:16 PM
There's also a difference between a building that is 50-60 years old and one that is over 80. If it's that old, you'll try to keep it because of the historic value. Just look at New York, New England, and Washington.
True, but eventually those 50-60 year old buildings become the over-80 ones, and then where are we? Imagine how many turn-of-the-century buildings (Beaux-Arts, City Beautiful-era) were razed in the 50s and 60s because they were old enough to be outmoded but not yet old enough to be historic, or at least nostalgic. And yes, in many cases that was because they were truly decrepit and it wasn't seen as practical (or necessary) to save them, but we do now find ourselves wishing we could have some of that building stock back.
It makes me wonder, although we'd all probably love to bulldoze all those horrid Brutalist eyesores from the 60s-70s with their crumbling, moldy concrete façades and their cold, desolate plazas–yet will there be a time not so long from now when we'll admire them as aesthetic triumphs of an earlier age, and spend millions to preserve and restore as many of them as we can?
This discussion is getting way too heavy for the type of thing we're talking about: places designed for people to get a burger and take a piss.
Who is traumatized by the demolition and replacement of a damn rest area building? Seriously. If it is cheaper, more efficient and usually a nicer end product for the traveling public to replace a building whose purpose is purely utilitarian than to try to rehab a decades-old, worn-out, not up to modern safety codes structure, so be it.
Quote from: empirestate on January 30, 2015, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: cl94 on January 29, 2015, 09:59:16 PM
There's also a difference between a building that is 50-60 years old and one that is over 80. If it's that old, you'll try to keep it because of the historic value. Just look at New York, New England, and Washington.
True, but eventually those 50-60 year old buildings become the over-80 ones, and then where are we? Imagine how many turn-of-the-century buildings (Beaux-Arts, City Beautiful-era) were razed in the 50s and 60s because they were old enough to be outmoded but not yet old enough to be historic, or at least nostalgic. And yes, in many cases that was because they were truly decrepit and it wasn't seen as practical (or necessary) to save them, but we do now find ourselves wishing we could have some of that building stock back.
It makes me wonder, although we'd all probably love to bulldoze all those horrid Brutalist eyesores from the 60s-70s with their crumbling, moldy concrete façades and their cold, desolate plazas–yet will there be a time not so long from now when we'll admire them as aesthetic triumphs of an earlier age, and spend millions to preserve and restore as many of them as we can?
Exactly. There's already renewed interest in mid-century architecture (but not Brutalism yet) and furniture. The furniture was just old crap when I was a kid in the '80s but there was still a lot of it around. The retro curve on everything varies. Cars hit the retro curve around 25 years old (remember when muscle cars were just "used cars") whereas most video games that are between 5-15 years old are valueless.
The fact that no old turnpike service plazas are left is a microcosm of how willing Americans are willing to dump anything that isn't new enough or old enough to be cool.
Then again, not everything that's old has historic value. Some old one-room cabin isn't valuable just because it's old. Usually the greatest examples get preserved, which also leads to a tendency to forget how bad things were for lots of people.
Quote from: GCrites80s on January 30, 2015, 10:38:35 AM
Quote from: empirestate on January 30, 2015, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: cl94 on January 29, 2015, 09:59:16 PM
There's also a difference between a building that is 50-60 years old and one that is over 80. If it's that old, you'll try to keep it because of the historic value. Just look at New York, New England, and Washington.
True, but eventually those 50-60 year old buildings become the over-80 ones, and then where are we? Imagine how many turn-of-the-century buildings (Beaux-Arts, City Beautiful-era) were razed in the 50s and 60s because they were old enough to be outmoded but not yet old enough to be historic, or at least nostalgic. And yes, in many cases that was because they were truly decrepit and it wasn't seen as practical (or necessary) to save them, but we do now find ourselves wishing we could have some of that building stock back.
It makes me wonder, although we'd all probably love to bulldoze all those horrid Brutalist eyesores from the 60s-70s with their crumbling, moldy concrete façades and their cold, desolate plazas–yet will there be a time not so long from now when we'll admire them as aesthetic triumphs of an earlier age, and spend millions to preserve and restore as many of them as we can?
Exactly. There's already renewed interest in mid-century architecture (but not Brutalism yet) and furniture. The furniture was just old crap when I was a kid in the '80s but there was still a lot of it around. The retro curve on everything varies. Cars hit the retro curve around 25 years old (remember when muscle cars were just "used cars") whereas most video games that are between 5-15 years old are valueless.
The fact that no old turnpike service plazas are left is a microcosm of how willing Americans are willing to dump anything that isn't new enough or old enough to be cool.
That's a reach. First of all, highway rest areas weren't built to be beautiful or to last 100 years. As pointed out upthread, anyone with any experience in the matter will tell you there is a very high cost involved with renovating that often is eclipsed in ROI by building anew. If you're going to tell me that there is great enough intrinsic cultural value in a utilitarian cafeteria building that now acts as a food court, and that such value merits putting more taxpayer money in with less return than starting over, I would suggest you lobby for the extra investment to save these places. I assure you even the preservation community would ask you to stop distracting from more pressing needs.
Hell, even I salivate over finding a grocery store that still has vestiges of the 1970s or earlier to it. But I don't think it reflects poorly on us that our commercial structures follow the demands of the market.
I admit there were some gems of rest areas out there, that in some cases probably would have been nice to incorporate into new structures, but on the whole, not a lot was lost other than a few people's objects of sentimentality.
It's too bad this site went down and then was reborn with almost no content:
http://recentpast.org/
It had a lot of good examples at one time of distinguished vernacular postwar buildings, but it's mostly gone now. The old site is at archive.org, but without the photos that were its true treasures.
All the talk about the old Charlton plazas has me missing the old Charlton West. I remember when it had a Burger King. As worn-out as that place was, it was one of my happy places, because any time I was there, we (family and I) were on our way to see Grandma Wassell, and that was always overshadowed by nearly uncontainable excitement, at least on my part.
And I remember the fire at Charlton East, and the temporary trailer, before it was finally rebuilt from the ground up. I never had the same feelings about Charlton East as I did about Charlton West; east meant going home, back to reality.
Ahh, to be a kid again, and to still have all beloved family members still living...