AARoads Forum

National Boards => General Highway Talk => Traffic Control => Topic started by: Pink Jazz on January 08, 2015, 05:57:40 PM

Title: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 08, 2015, 05:57:40 PM
I was thinking, could anyone think of some traffic control devices that the U.S. borrowed from Europe that are now standard installation?

One of them that seems to come to mind are lane control signals (red X/green down arrow).  Another one is symbolic pedestrian signals, although modified (raised hand instead of standing man, as well as Portland Orange/Lunar White instead of Red/Green).

EDIT: Oops, wrong forum.  Please move to Traffic Control forum.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: NE2 on January 08, 2015, 06:48:39 PM
The English language.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 08, 2015, 07:06:43 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 08, 2015, 06:48:39 PM
The English language.

Of course, Vienna Convention road signs are far less verbose than those of the MUTCD, using more pictograms rather than words.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: WashuOtaku on January 08, 2015, 07:57:13 PM
Driving on the right, thanks France!  :cool:
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2015, 08:03:08 PM
Fairly certain these were European inventions:

- Zebra crosswalks
- Shark-teeth yield lines
- Roundabouts
- High-visibility signal backplates (chiefly white in Europe but the concept is the same)
- Diverging-diamond interchange
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: Brandon on January 08, 2015, 08:04:51 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on January 08, 2015, 07:57:13 PM
Driving on the right, thanks France!  :cool:

Actually, we developed that on our own.  The first law of any type regarding the side traffic should stay to was in 1792.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2015, 08:08:42 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 08, 2015, 08:04:51 PM
Quote from: WashuOtaku on January 08, 2015, 07:57:13 PM
Driving on the right, thanks France!  :cool:

Actually, we developed that on our own.  The first law of any type regarding the side traffic should stay to was in 1792.

Before that, some places drove on the left due to British Influence. Hell, parts of Canada were staying to the left as late as 1940.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: US 41 on January 08, 2015, 09:54:26 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 08, 2015, 08:03:08 PM
- Roundabouts

I wish they would've kept these over there. I find it annoying when you have some people that don't know what they're doing when they approach these. I also find many roundabouts to be too small. I know that most semi truck drivers do not like them at all. Studies also show that their are more accidents in a roundabout intersection than a traditional intersection (however a traditional intersection has more accidents that are fatal or cause serious injuries).
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: jakeroot on January 08, 2015, 10:05:52 PM
Quote from: US 41 on January 08, 2015, 09:54:26 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 08, 2015, 08:03:08 PM
- Roundabouts

I wish they would've kept these over there. I find it annoying when you have some people that don't know what they're doing when they approach these. I also find many roundabouts to be too small. I know that most semi truck drivers do not like them at all. Studies also show that their are more accidents in a roundabout intersection than a traditional intersection (however a traditional intersection has more accidents that are fatal or cause serious injuries).

We need another thread to debate roundabouts.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: roadman on January 09, 2015, 09:30:00 AM
In the mid 1960s, there were parts of the Back Bay in Boston where European style signs were installed as an experiment.  IIRC, some of the guide signs remained in place until the early 1980s.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: PHLBOS on January 09, 2015, 09:42:54 AM
Quote from: roadman on January 09, 2015, 09:30:00 AM
In the mid 1960s, there were parts of the Back Bay in Boston where European style signs were installed as an experiment.  IIRC, some of the guide signs remained in place until the early 1980s.
I saw one of those signs (complete with C-9 & C-28 references) as late as 1990.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: 1995hoo on January 09, 2015, 09:49:36 AM
Maryland used to have some white-on-blue round arrow signs posted on some of their roundabouts (the ones near the Naylor Road Metrorail stop come to mind). I used to see them out the window of the Metro trains between about 2008 and early 2010 (I recall the time frame because the only time I road the trains on that segment was when Nationals Park first opened, before I found reliable cheap parking near the ballpark). They've been replaced with US-spec signage.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: Pete from Boston on January 09, 2015, 10:45:28 AM

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 09, 2015, 09:42:54 AM
Quote from: roadman on January 09, 2015, 09:30:00 AM
In the mid 1960s, there were parts of the Back Bay in Boston where European style signs were installed as an experiment.  IIRC, some of the guide signs remained in place until the early 1980s.
I saw one of those signs (complete with C-9 & C-28 references) as late as 1990.

Still on Arlington St. well into the 2000s, but apparently now gone, according to GMSV.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: NE2 on January 09, 2015, 04:44:33 PM
Yes, these lasted at least to 2001-02:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/8431698259/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/8432779488/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/8431688719/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/8431685933/
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: PHLBOS on January 09, 2015, 05:34:08 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 09, 2015, 04:44:33 PM
Yes, these lasted at least to 2001-02:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/8431698259/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/8432779488/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/8431688719/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41203461@N00/8431685933/
Thank you for the links.

The third sign photo in your listing is clearly one from the late 60s and the ones that Roadman, Pete & I were referring to. 

The other sign photos you posted sporting European-like styling are at least a decade or two newer.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: jakeroot on January 09, 2015, 07:17:41 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 09, 2015, 09:49:36 AM
Maryland used to have some white-on-blue round arrow signs posted on some of their roundabouts (the ones near the Naylor Road Metrorail stop come to mind). I used to see them out the window of the Metro trains between about 2008 and early 2010 (I recall the time frame because the only time I road the trains on that segment was when Nationals Park first opened, before I found reliable cheap parking near the ballpark). They've been replaced with US-spec signage.

June 2014 GMSV still has them as being installed. I'm guessing they have been replaced since then? They look pretty cool, although I would have mounted them lower, closer to where the chevrons are typically installed. Raised up on a post like that looks a bit strange IMO.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: KEK Inc. on January 10, 2015, 02:50:42 AM
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.986703,-104.824318,3a,46.9y,79.13h,83.53t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sK6nKKN2Su4uPa7ovlDaUpg!2e0
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: jakeroot on January 10, 2015, 03:08:50 AM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 10, 2015, 02:50:42 AM
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.986703,-104.824318,3a,46.9y,79.13h,83.53t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sK6nKKN2Su4uPa7ovlDaUpg!2e0

Pre-MUTCD roundabout signage is one of the most fascinating things.

EDIT: like the bollard here...

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mini-roundabout.com%2Fimages%2Fdimondalemini2.jpg&hash=9c01403956f0e7f68f96905dbaf7cfe7d7d98f09)
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: KEK Inc. on January 10, 2015, 03:10:21 AM
I think this was installed after 2009.  Pretty sure it's a play on the town name, Brighton. 


iPhone
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: riiga on January 10, 2015, 08:45:45 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 09, 2015, 07:17:41 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 09, 2015, 09:49:36 AM
Maryland used to have some white-on-blue round arrow signs posted on some of their roundabouts (the ones near the Naylor Road Metrorail stop come to mind). I used to see them out the window of the Metro trains between about 2008 and early 2010 (I recall the time frame because the only time I road the trains on that segment was when Nationals Park first opened, before I found reliable cheap parking near the ballpark). They've been replaced with US-spec signage.

June 2014 GMSV still has them as being installed. I'm guessing they have been replaced since then? They look pretty cool, although I would have mounted them lower, closer to where the chevrons are typically installed. Raised up on a post like that looks a bit strange IMO.

Nice! (http://goo.gl/maps/4ZkHG)




I'm pretty sure 2+1 roads (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road) can be added to the list, though I only know of one in use in the US.

I know there's one (albeit without barriers) in Missouri on MO-5 between Lebanon and Camdenton. MoDOT made a video about it too (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxd54Qy-1yk).
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: 1995hoo on January 10, 2015, 09:07:12 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 09, 2015, 07:17:41 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on January 09, 2015, 09:49:36 AM
Maryland used to have some white-on-blue round arrow signs posted on some of their roundabouts (the ones near the Naylor Road Metrorail stop come to mind). I used to see them out the window of the Metro trains between about 2008 and early 2010 (I recall the time frame because the only time I road the trains on that segment was when Nationals Park first opened, before I found reliable cheap parking near the ballpark). They've been replaced with US-spec signage.

June 2014 GMSV still has them as being installed. I'm guessing they have been replaced since then? They look pretty cool, although I would have mounted them lower, closer to where the chevrons are typically installed. Raised up on a post like that looks a bit strange IMO.

That's wild. Last time I went through there, the other roundabout down the road had gone to US-style signs.

I rather like the European arrows there. I don't think there's any reason for the US to insist on reinventing signage that has been shown to work perfectly well.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: cpzilliacus on January 11, 2015, 07:29:37 PM
The DO NOT ENTER (R5-1) sign is directly adapted from a European design.

U.S.:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trafficsign.us%2F650%2Freg%2Fr5-1.gif&hash=24460963c92fa45e840367ee6c4c20f34b77df63)

Sweden:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.transportstyrelsen.se%2FVagmarken%2FForbudsmarken%2FC1%2FC1-1%2Fladdahem%2FC1-1.png&hash=c7119216ef3f186edfdc2aa1d397df4cd592977b)

Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: Pink Jazz on January 11, 2015, 07:44:32 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 11, 2015, 07:29:37 PM
The DO NOT ENTER (R5-1) sign is directly adapted from a European design.


And actually, I think the current Yield sign was modified from a European design as well.  Yield signs in the United States were previously yellow and originally were keystone shaped with the words "YIELD RIGHT OF WAY".  The second revision changed the shape to a triangle.  The third revision removed the words "RIGHT OF WAY", and the current red/white color scheme was adopted in 1969.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: jakeroot on January 11, 2015, 08:01:20 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 11, 2015, 07:29:37 PM
The DO NOT ENTER (R5-1) sign is directly adapted from a European design.

U.S.:
http://www.trafficsign.us/650/reg/r5-1.gif

Sweden:
http://www.transportstyrelsen.se/Vagmarken/Forbudsmarken/C1/C1-1/laddahem/C1-1.png

Additional proof -- Canada (sorry for ridiculous size):

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5210/5345047522_d87a026470_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: Jardine on January 11, 2015, 09:39:19 PM
Maybe borrow something else from England:

Install gibbets (with rotting corpses) near dangerous intersections to inspire caution.

:wow:
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: english si on January 12, 2015, 07:03:31 AM
We've not had that in 200+ years.

And it wasn't for traffic offences that people were publically executed in town squares, or on hills overlooking the town (as happened in my town), or at road junctions (eg Tyburn. now Marble Arch) - rather than giving the message 'drive slower' it would be 'get the hell away from here asap and don't do what these criminals did' as it was back then.
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: US 41 on January 12, 2015, 10:24:08 AM
Were speed cameras and red light cameras first used in Europe?
Title: Re: Traffic control devices the U.S. borrowed from Europe
Post by: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 01:37:29 AM
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.644755,-106.377846,3a,45.1y,244.73h,93.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sLX_8b25YtQF7xy8ny3no1w!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.643367,-106.378235,3a,45.5y,177.4h,87.29t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sTHRQUcDeXDYgfFn1Mw6HGw!2e0