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National Boards => General Highway Talk => Topic started by: Mergingtraffic on August 09, 2009, 06:12:48 PM

Title: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Mergingtraffic on August 09, 2009, 06:12:48 PM
What expressway interchanges do you think was designed well but have a qwerk or two to make it a "non-perfect" interchange?

Some examples:

Loop ramps that are too tight.

Well designed but that one elft-exit or entrance.

Flyover with that pesky tight loop ramp or left entrance

sharp curves.
etc
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: SSOWorld on August 09, 2009, 06:39:53 PM
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Revive 755 on August 10, 2009, 04:29:43 PM
* I-70/I-170 interchange west of St. Louis:  All left turn movements are left exits and left entrances.  However, NB I-170 has an extra left exit that enters WB I-70 on the right to provide access to the Lambert Airport exit.  With the proximity of the airport and a light rail line angling through the interchange, it might be hard to convert it into a stack.  Plus I've been told that the interchange functions fine by a MoDOT official.

* The I-170 Boeing Exit:  Pretty much a private ramp to a Boeing factory entrance, has a closed gate at the end; however, the gate is positioned so it can be used as a NB to SB u-turn ramp.

* I-55/I-44/Truman interchange in St. Louis:  Biggest problem is the 20 mph left exit that dumps traffic on the left side of I-44.  Then there's a poorly designed lane drop on a curve for the SB Truman to I-55 movement.

* I-44/I-270/MO 366 interchange:  Maybe well designed at the time, but the volume on the loops make this cloverstack in need of upgrading to a full stack.  Bigger design flaw is the narrow WB I-44 to SB I-270 ramp and the weave between traffic using that ramp and WB MO 366 traffic.

* Western I-80/US 77 interchange in Lincoln, NE:  Big flaw is given the ramp with the highest truck volume a tight loop and too short of acceleration lane.

* Planned NE 2/South Beltway/East Beltway interchange at Lincoln, NE:  Someone needs to explain how the current complicated design is better than using a rotated version of the I-680/US 6 interchange in Omaha.  If the Lincoln beltway is given a single number, it might work better, but as of now it will have left side ramps for what will become mainline NE 2.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Scott5114 on August 10, 2009, 04:57:26 PM
I-240 between I-44 and I-35. Can you say "weave city"?
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Ian on August 10, 2009, 05:58:05 PM
-I-676 in Philadelphia right before the Ben Franklin Bridge has traffic signals. Though thats mainly because they didn't want to interfere with Independence Park.

-I-95 at DE 1/7 in Christiana, DE has very tight ramps. Though DelDOT is trying to fix that.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: vdeane on August 10, 2009, 06:28:01 PM
Here's one on NY 590: http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=r5w9978j4bxd&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&scene=8960812&encType=1 (http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=r5w9978j4bxd&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&scene=8960812&encType=1)

First, the deceleration lanes are tiny, forcing drivers to slow down on the freeway.  Additionally it's impossible to go faster than 20 mph on the loop ramp.  Thankfully there is a very long acceleration lane there.  This used to be a cloverleaf.  I can only imagine how it must have worked with the tight loop ramps and weaving.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: jdb1234 on August 10, 2009, 08:03:52 PM
The interchange between I-65 and I-20/59 in Birmingham consists of left exits and entrances that have caused many wrecks over the years leading to the name "Malfunction Junction"

The ramp from I-20 West onto I-59 South near the airport features a very sharp curve which is known as "Deadman's Curve."

A left exit and entrance exists on I-20/59 at its interchange with 22nd Street in Birmingham due to the interchange's close proximity to the Red Mountain Expressway interchange. 
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: PAHighways on August 10, 2009, 08:31:32 PM
Quote from: PennDOTFan on August 10, 2009, 05:58:05 PM
-I-676 in Philadelphia right before the Ben Franklin Bridge has traffic signals. Though thats mainly because they didn't want to interfere with Independence Park.

PennDOT considers the streets through Franklin Square and the Bridge as only US 30.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: mapman on August 11, 2009, 02:10:33 AM
The US 101/I-280/I-680 interchange in San Jose, California.  If it weren't for the small loop ramp from southbound I-280 to northbound US 101, it'd be a symetrical stack interchange.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Terry Shea on August 11, 2009, 09:33:52 PM
The entrance ramp from BL I-69 to westbound I-69 northeast of Lansing, MI is absolutely ridiculous.  Instead of looping it to the left and going fairly straight they looped it around to the right.  I believe the speed limit is 15 MPH (it might be 25), but even going that slowly it feels like you're going to fast.  Either way they had to cut it through a wooded area so I don't know why they chose the stupid way.  It's very hard to accelerate and merge with traffic after looping around that slowly.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Alps on August 11, 2009, 10:28:39 PM
Why would it loop to the left?  You're talking EB 69 BL to WB I-69.  That's not a high-volume movement.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: WNYroadgeek on August 12, 2009, 07:18:32 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.143207,-77.548671&spn=0.007625,0.013797&t=k&z=16 (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.143207,-77.548671&spn=0.007625,0.013797&t=k&z=16)

They don't call it the Can of Worms for nothing.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: berberry on August 12, 2009, 10:58:40 PM
Hattiesburg, MS has an oddball at the junction of U.S. Highways 11 and 49:  an old, full cloverleaf that lacks merging lanes between the loop ramps.  In other words, both roadways maintain two lanes in each direction through the entire interchange; there is no extra lane for weaving movements. 

Mississippi uses cloverleaf interchanges almost exclusively in small cities and towns, and I've never noticed another one anywhere that lacks weaving lanes.  If somebody knows of another one I'd be interested to know where it is.

Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: jdb1234 on August 12, 2009, 11:08:43 PM
Although not in Mississippi, the US 31 interchange with AL 149 in Homewood, AL is a full cloverleaf without any weaving lanes.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Terry Shea on August 13, 2009, 01:02:27 AM
Quote from: AlpsROADS on August 11, 2009, 10:28:39 PM
Why would it loop to the left?  You're talking EB 69 BL to WB I-69.  That's not a high-volume movement.
After it crosses over I-69 it could have taken a much straighter path to the left instead of cloverleafing around to the right, basically doing a 360 (or more).  I can't believe ROW acquisition could have been a problem nor could I see any difference in environmental issues unless there's a swamp back there in the woods and the environmentalists were worried about a few mosquitos getting killed.  Yeah, that's probably it.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: berberry on August 13, 2009, 09:18:52 AM
Sorry, JDB, I didn't mean to imply that I was only interested in Mississippi examples, although I guess that's what it sounded like.

Since Homewood is metro Birmingham, I wonder how that interchange performs in high traffic.  Although I've been through the Hattiesburg cloverleaf many times, I've never done it at rush hour.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Hellfighter on August 13, 2009, 10:20:17 AM
The I-75/I-375/Connector M-3 interchange is bad. For those who want I-75 southbound, you have to take a two lane, sharp 25 Mph curve, which I've seen many trucks jackknife on it. For northbound I-75, you have to deal with a sharp flyover curve.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: froggie on August 13, 2009, 01:33:40 PM
QuoteMississippi uses cloverleaf interchanges almost exclusively in small cities and towns, and I've never noticed another one anywhere that lacks weaving lanes.  If somebody knows of another one I'd be interested to know where it is.

What is now the I-20/59/MS 145 interchange in Meridian was originally a full cloverleaf that lacked auxiliary lanes between the loops.  It was built ca. 1950 for what was then a US 11/80 Meridian bypass (Tom Bailey Drive...what is now I-20/59 through town) and US 45 (which ran along 22nd St in Meridian).  The upgrading to the current configuration happened in the late '70s.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on August 14, 2009, 12:40:54 PM
US 82 & US 61 near Leland?
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: froggie on August 14, 2009, 06:55:44 PM
Wouldn't count.  It's much more recent construction than the other two (mid-70s, versus mid-40s for 11/49/Hattiesburg and 1950 for 11/80/45/Meridian).  And it does have weaving lanes between the loops.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: berberry on August 15, 2009, 11:16:55 PM
QuoteWhat is now the I-20/59/MS 145 interchange in Meridian was originally a full cloverleaf that lacked auxiliary lanes between the loops.  It was built ca. 1950 for what was then a US 11/80 Meridian bypass (Tom Bailey Drive...what is now I-20/59 through town) and US 45 (which ran along 22nd St in Meridian).  The upgrading to the current configuration happened in the late '70s.

So the current partial cloverleaf at 22nd Ave used to be a full cloverleaf?  I had no idea. 

I remember the highways of Vicksburg much better from those days.  The current I-20 originally opened as the U.S. 80 expressway route.  I remember that drivers could cross the median at several points.  I think most - if not all - of the current interchanges were first built for Hwy 80, and I seem to remember a traffic light at Wisconsin, which now crosses I-20 without access.

What is curious to me is the fact that Jackson's stretch of I-20 has been there as long as I can remember (I was born in 1960).  I don't think it was originally built as an expressway route for 80, as happened in Vicksburg.  Since both of these current I-20 segments were built in not only the same state, but the same highway commission district (which, if you know much about historical politics in Mississippi, REALLY makes a difference), I can't understand why the planners of the Vicksburg expressway didn't plan their project instead as I-20, from the very start.  Why did they ever bother to re-route U.S. 80?

Instead of one oddball interchange, Vicksburg has a matching pair on I-20:  two back-to-back half cloverleafs with (kinda sorta) flyover ramps and no left turns at Clay Street and at U.S. 61 North.  The "flyover" ramps are at left-hand exits, and at each interchange there is one motion that cannot be made. 

I say "kinda sorta" because those flyovers are only one level above grade.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Duke87 on August 16, 2009, 12:13:36 PM
The Den Road "interchange" on the Merritt Parkway (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=41.100391,-73.579688&spn=0.007664,0.014913&z=16).

Den Road, prior to the construction of the parkway in 1936, used to go through. Now it does not, but the two ends on either side of the highway instead default onto/off of it. Right turn movements are simple. Left turn movements involve going the long way around via Riverbank Road.


Plenty of similar situations to this exist on some of the older parkways in the Hudson Valley, sure, but with highways like the Saw Mill, BRP, and Taconic... well, there are plenty of at-grade intersections, too, so it's not fully-controlled access anyway and it doesn't stand out as much. The Merritt did have a single at-grade intersection when it first opened (exit 30), but it was removed in the 50's.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: SSOWorld on August 16, 2009, 12:15:36 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 16, 2009, 12:13:36 PM
The Den Road "interchange" on the Merritt Parkway (http://maps.google.com/).

Den Road, prior to the construction of the parkway in 1936, used to go through. Now it does not, but the two ends on either side of the highway instead default onto/off of it. Right turn movements are simple. Left turn movements involve going the long way around via Riverbank Road.


Plenty of similar situations to this exist on some of the older parkways in the Hudson Valley, sure, but with highways like the Saw Mill, BRP, and Taconic... well, there are plenty of at-grade intersections, too, so it's not fully-controlled access anyway and it doesn't stand out as much. The Merritt did have a single at-grade intersection when it first opened (exit 30), but it was removed in the 50's.
might want to fix that link on your message ;)
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: Sykotyk on August 16, 2009, 06:48:12 PM
US-24 in central Kansas has an interchange with KS-258.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=rook+county,+ks&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,13306675398284548219&ei=o4uISr_ILpGsNsST0MkE&ll=39.419652,-99.416914&spn=0.016344,0.038581&z=15 (http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&q=rook+county,+ks&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,13306675398284548219&ei=o4uISr_ILpGsNsST0MkE&ll=39.419652,-99.416914&spn=0.016344,0.038581&z=15)

U.S. 24 is a nice road, however. But with so many other intersections and towns, it seems foolish for off-ramps to be here, where it's not built up to handle expansion for a second carriageway.

Still neat, though.

Sykotyk
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: njroadhorse on August 17, 2009, 03:38:35 PM
Exit 15 on I-78 in PA has the two ends of the road default onto 78.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: agentsteel53 on August 17, 2009, 03:46:00 PM
looks like I-78 cut the road in two, and they never built an overpass.  Very odd!

it resembles a common freeway-building technique of the 1940s and 50s (see the Arroyo Seco Parkway in LA), where the on- and off-ramps are not split among the two sides of an overpass, but rather they are all located off to one side.  Here, however, there is no overpass.  It is unclear how one is supposed to proceed along that side street, unless they go down to exit 16, make a U-turn at the diamond interchange, and come back. 
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: SSOWorld on August 17, 2009, 03:54:45 PM
Quote from: njroadhorse on August 17, 2009, 03:38:35 PM
Exit 15 on I-78 in PA has the two ends of the road default onto 78.
I had to look at this to figure out what you meant.

Yeah - definitely wierd - I wonder if that's actually substandard.
Title: Re: expressway interchange qwerks!
Post by: signalman on August 17, 2009, 06:07:03 PM
It definitely is for trucks.  There was a sign going west saying "No Trucks" the last time I was out there.  Granted it's been several years  since I've been that far west on I-78.