WTSP-TV (Channel 10): Safety experts hunt for wrong-way crash fixes (http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/local/2015/01/13/safety-experts-hunt-for-wrong-way-crash-fixes/21679605)
QuoteTampa, Florida -- In a Safety Summit on Tuesday morning, experts will work on ending the Tampa Bay area's epidemic of wrong-way drivers.
QuoteWrong-way crashes killed at least twelve people in Tampa Bay last year. It's a scary safety concern for your family.
QuoteThe state says it's serious about looking at every suggestion to fix this. They've told me they've even had folks suggest they install pop-up nets to stop wrong-way cars.
FDOT unveils new technology to help wrong-way drivers (http://www.wtsp.com/story/traffic/2015/01/14/wrong-way-driving-technology/21745091/)
QuoteTAMPA, Florida -- Wrong-way crashes killed at least 12 people in Tampa Bay last year. In a Safety Summit on Tuesday, experts discussed how to combat the wrong-way driving epidemic, which they said is worse than they imagined.
QuoteAccording to the Florida Department of Transportation, the answer lies in technology. The department is looking at innovative ways to prevent wrong-way driving with new technology on the market being considered. The newest high-tech system is being tested on the Florida Turnpike right now: it's a sign that detects a driver before they turn onto the ramp.
Florida's Turnpike press release (with illustrations) from 2014: Wrong-way vehicle detection pilot project under way on Turnpike roadways in South Florida (http://www.floridasturnpike.com/PressReleases/2014/Wrong-way%20vehicle%20detection%20pilot%20project%20under%20way.pdf) (.pdf)
Related topic: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14055
Quote from: cpzilliacus on January 15, 2015, 09:10:48 PMIt's a scary safety concern for your family.
As an aside: I hate that the news does this. "Here's a problem, and here's why YOU should be
VERY VERY SCARED and stay tuned for news of other things that should scare you."
Why is it a big issue in Florida and nowhere else? Is it due to design issues with the intersections or a higher density of incompetent motorists and poor driver's education?
If it's the latter, the technology is not the issue.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 02:32:02 PM
Why is it a big issue in Florida and nowhere else?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Folks_at_Home
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 02:32:02 PM
Why is it a big issue in Florida and nowhere else? Is it due to design issues with the intersections or a higher density of incompetent motorists and poor driver's education?
If it's the latter, the technology is not the issue.
It seems to happen a lot in Chicagoland as well. Usually the culprits are drunk.
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2015, 05:01:08 PM
It seems to happen a lot in Chicagoland as well. Usually the culprits are drunk.
BINGO!!! Impairment, whether it be due to alcohol, drugs, medication, or physical/medical condition, is the principal cause of wrong-way crashes. Short of a ten foot high solid steel barrier that magically rises from the roadway when a wrong way entry is detected, no "high tech" solution will solve this problem.
Quote from: roadman on January 16, 2015, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2015, 05:01:08 PM
It seems to happen a lot in Chicagoland as well. Usually the culprits are drunk.
BINGO!!! Impairment, whether it be due to alcohol, drugs, medication, or physical/medical condition, is the principal cause of wrong-way crashes. Short of a ten foot high solid steel barrier that magically rises from the roadway when a wrong way entry is detected, no "high tech" solution will solve this problem.
Actually, it could be solved by adding a road (from the wrong-way ramp to the right-way ramp, in a way that it does not require much of a curve) so that the the "wrong way" people end up going the right way unless they intentionally want to go to the wrong way.
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2015, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: roadman on January 16, 2015, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2015, 05:01:08 PM
It seems to happen a lot in Chicagoland as well. Usually the culprits are drunk.
BINGO!!! Impairment, whether it be due to alcohol, drugs, medication, or physical/medical condition, is the principal cause of wrong-way crashes. Short of a ten foot high solid steel barrier that magically rises from the roadway when a wrong way entry is detected, no "high tech" solution will solve this problem.
Actually, it could be solved by adding a road (from the wrong-way ramp to the right-way ramp, in a way that it does not require much of a curve) so that the the "wrong way" people end up going the right way unless they intentionally want to go to the wrong way.
No.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2015, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: roadman on January 16, 2015, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2015, 05:01:08 PM
It seems to happen a lot in Chicagoland as well. Usually the culprits are drunk.
BINGO!!! Impairment, whether it be due to alcohol, drugs, medication, or physical/medical condition, is the principal cause of wrong-way crashes. Short of a ten foot high solid steel barrier that magically rises from the roadway when a wrong way entry is detected, no "high tech" solution will solve this problem.
Actually, it could be solved by adding a road (from the wrong-way ramp to the right-way ramp, in a way that it does not require much of a curve) so that the the "wrong way" people end up going the right way unless they intentionally want to go to the wrong way.
No.
Pretty much impossible. Too much taxpayer money would be wasted on such instance.
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on January 16, 2015, 10:18:01 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2015, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: roadman on January 16, 2015, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2015, 05:01:08 PM
It seems to happen a lot in Chicagoland as well. Usually the culprits are drunk.
BINGO!!! Impairment, whether it be due to alcohol, drugs, medication, or physical/medical condition, is the principal cause of wrong-way crashes. Short of a ten foot high solid steel barrier that magically rises from the roadway when a wrong way entry is detected, no "high tech" solution will solve this problem.
Actually, it could be solved by adding a road (from the wrong-way ramp to the right-way ramp, in a way that it does not require much of a curve) so that the the "wrong way" people end up going the right way unless they intentionally want to go to the wrong way.
No.
Pretty much impossible. Too much taxpayer money would be wasted on such instance.
And taxpayer money is not wasted on what they are doing right now?
I remember there was a big issue with these incidents in the mid-2000s when I lived in Columbus. ODOT installed an insane amount of wrong way signage at several heights along with much reflective red tape.
Back to the Technology, NYSTA put a wrong-way detection system at I-190 Exit 9 (SB exit ramp) a year or 2 ago. When a vehicle enters the ramp going the wrong way, flashing lights and VMSes on the ramp activate, while VMSes back to Niagara Falls immediately display a "wrong way driver" warning. This ramp in particular had several issues because of its length.
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2015, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: roadman on January 16, 2015, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2015, 05:01:08 PM
It seems to happen a lot in Chicagoland as well. Usually the culprits are drunk.
BINGO!!! Impairment, whether it be due to alcohol, drugs, medication, or physical/medical condition, is the principal cause of wrong-way crashes. Short of a ten foot high solid steel barrier that magically rises from the roadway when a wrong way entry is detected, no "high tech" solution will solve this problem.
Actually, it could be solved by adding a road (from the wrong-way ramp to the right-way ramp, in a way that it does not require much of a curve) so that the the "wrong way" people end up going the right way unless they intentionally want to go to the wrong way.
Draw that for us. You would basically have to duplicate every movement for entire interchanges. And with extremely long overpasses to boot. And remember, the ramps would need to be built for almost no one to use.
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on January 16, 2015, 10:18:01 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 07:06:21 PM
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2015, 06:58:00 PM
Quote from: roadman on January 16, 2015, 05:43:49 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 16, 2015, 05:01:08 PM
It seems to happen a lot in Chicagoland as well. Usually the culprits are drunk.
BINGO!!! Impairment, whether it be due to alcohol, drugs, medication, or physical/medical condition, is the principal cause of wrong-way crashes. Short of a ten foot high solid steel barrier that magically rises from the roadway when a wrong way entry is detected, no "high tech" solution will solve this problem.
Actually, it could be solved by adding a road (from the wrong-way ramp to the right-way ramp, in a way that it does not require much of a curve) so that the the "wrong way" people end up going the right way unless they intentionally want to go to the wrong way.
No.
Pretty much impossible. Too much taxpayer money would be wasted on such instance.
And it doesn't solve the problem.
It's an issue with people who shouldn't carry a drivers license, not infrastructure.
iPhone
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 11:05:05 PM
It's an issue with people who shouldn't carry a drivers license, not infrastructure.
There are plenty of drivers that should not be licensed, or driving with (or without) a license.
We have solved this problem.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.std.org%2Fimages%2FtigerTeeth3.jpg&hash=4fc37543c6fdf84ab3290075a6f81cc8d403a004)
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
We have solved this problem.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.std.org%2Fimages%2FtigerTeeth3.jpg&hash=4fc37543c6fdf84ab3290075a6f81cc8d403a004)
That works well in parking lots, not so much on freeway off-ramps...
Quote from: roadfro on January 18, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
We have solved this problem.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.std.org%2Fimages%2FtigerTeeth3.jpg&hash=4fc37543c6fdf84ab3290075a6f81cc8d403a004)
That works well in parking lots, not so much on freeway off-ramps...
How do you know?
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 07:34:39 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 18, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
We have solved this problem.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.std.org%2Fimages%2FtigerTeeth3.jpg&hash=4fc37543c6fdf84ab3290075a6f81cc8d403a004)
That works well in parking lots, not so much on freeway off-ramps...
How do you know?
Tiger teeth are designed to be driven forward at a max speed of 15 MPH. Generally, you're supposed to stop before driving over it.
It's a control device that will cause more issues than the rare idiot going the wrong way.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 18, 2015, 08:02:19 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 07:34:39 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 18, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
We have solved this problem.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.std.org%2Fimages%2FtigerTeeth3.jpg&hash=4fc37543c6fdf84ab3290075a6f81cc8d403a004)
That works well in parking lots, not so much on freeway off-ramps...
How do you know?
Tiger teeth are designed to be driven forward at a max speed of 15 MPH. Generally, you're supposed to stop before driving over it.
It's a control device that will cause more issues than the rare idiot going the wrong way.
Except the concept still applies. Replace the tiger teeth with a spring-loaded steel plate that can only be driven over in one direction. Theoretically, it could work. Don't know if it's practical, but it's simple enough.
Quote from: cl94 on January 18, 2015, 08:17:11 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 18, 2015, 08:02:19 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 07:34:39 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 18, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
We have solved this problem.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.std.org%2Fimages%2FtigerTeeth3.jpg&hash=4fc37543c6fdf84ab3290075a6f81cc8d403a004)
That works well in parking lots, not so much on freeway off-ramps...
How do you know?
Tiger teeth are designed to be driven forward at a max speed of 15 MPH. Generally, you're supposed to stop before driving over it.
It's a control device that will cause more issues than the rare idiot going the wrong way.
Except the concept still applies. Replace the tiger teeth with a spring-loaded steel plate that can only be driven over in one direction. Theoretically, it could work. Don't know if it's practical, but it's simple enough.
Yes. There are check valves in all kinds of networked systems. Why not roads?
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 11:21:22 PM
Quote from: cl94 on January 18, 2015, 08:17:11 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 18, 2015, 08:02:19 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 07:34:39 PM
Quote from: roadfro on January 18, 2015, 06:00:47 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 18, 2015, 03:39:11 PM
We have solved this problem.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.std.org%2Fimages%2FtigerTeeth3.jpg&hash=4fc37543c6fdf84ab3290075a6f81cc8d403a004)
That works well in parking lots, not so much on freeway off-ramps...
How do you know?
Tiger teeth are designed to be driven forward at a max speed of 15 MPH. Generally, you're supposed to stop before driving over it.
It's a control device that will cause more issues than the rare idiot going the wrong way.
Except the concept still applies. Replace the tiger teeth with a spring-loaded steel plate that can only be driven over in one direction. Theoretically, it could work. Don't know if it's practical, but it's simple enough.
Yes. There are check valves in all kinds of networked systems. Why not roads?
I actually thought of that when I was in Washington and saw all of the barriers that retract into the road (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.887598,-77.008126,3a,75y,170.28h,83.68t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sPkunp57MyIJO8a7sn5xMDw!2e0). Just have to add a fail-safe so it can't pop up into the bottom of a car.
Quote from: hubcity on January 16, 2015, 09:34:23 AM
As an aside: I hate that the news does this. "Here's a problem, and here's why YOU should be VERY VERY SCARED and stay tuned for news of other things that should scare you."
Agreed. "If it bleeds it leads" is another favorite of TV news shows, especially at the local level.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 02:32:02 PM
Why is it a big issue in Florida and nowhere else? Is it due to design issues with the intersections or a higher density of incompetent motorists and poor driver's education?
If it's the latter, the technology is not the issue.
Its a combination of a lot of issues. Another thing I've noticed quite a bit in the Central Florida region not mentioned here is the diluting of the meaning of the DO NOT ENTER signs that usually indicate not to go down a street. I've also noticed they're used in place of a NO LEFT TURN or AUTHORIZED VEHICLE ONLY very frequently. There is also a lot of poor placement, such as directly in the center of the median so its hard to tell which direction it is for.
Quote from: UCFKnights on January 19, 2015, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 02:32:02 PM
Why is it a big issue in Florida and nowhere else? Is it due to design issues with the intersections or a higher density of incompetent motorists and poor driver's education?
If it's the latter, the technology is not the issue.
Its a combination of a lot of issues. Another thing I've noticed quite a bit in the Central Florida region not mentioned here is the diluting of the meaning of the DO NOT ENTER signs that usually indicate not to go down a street. I've also noticed they're used in place of a NO LEFT TURN or AUTHORIZED VEHICLE ONLY very frequently. There is also a lot of poor placement, such as directly in the center of the median so its hard to tell which direction it is for.
That's a genuine issue. In the West Coast, we do use 'DO NOT ENTER' for authorized vehicle use, but there's usually a supplementary 'EXCEPT ...'.
In Washington, we put a DO NOT ENTER sign right at the intersection, and then up the off-ramp, there's a couple of 'WRONG WAY' (reassurance?) signs. California groups the 'DO NOT ENTER' sign and 'WRONG WAY' signs together, but also puts 'ONE WAY' signs pointing towards the intersection. Apart from that, on one way streets in the Pacific Northwest, we actually use DO NOT ENTER sparingly.
Entering on the exit ramps is problem everywhere. In Oregon we put Do Not Enter signs at the intersection, followed by Wrong Way signs about halfway down the exit ramp. Still, people occasionally get "confused." Hopefully FDOT's active warning system will prevent a few crashes.
I wonder what specific type of technology FDOT is using to detect wrong-way vehicles. It looks like they have a couple pendant cameras at the sign - are they doing pixel tracking? Or just using the cameras for confirmation/post-alert analysis?
And are those RRFB light bars on the wrong way sign? I thought those were only for pedestrian crossings? Is FDOT experimenting?
"Wrong Way"?
How would they know where we're headed?!
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 19, 2015, 06:42:49 PM
"Wrong Way"?
How would they know where we're headed?!
"He says we're going the wrong way."
"Oh, he's drunk. How does he know which way we're going."
From
Planes, Trains, and Automobiles
Quote from: roadman on January 19, 2015, 06:46:13 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on January 19, 2015, 06:42:49 PM
"Wrong Way"?
How would they know where we're headed?!
"He says we're going the wrong way."
"Oh, he's drunk. How does he know which way we're going."
From [I Planes, Trains, and Automobiles[/I]
I was close. It's the thought that counts.
Death is an excellent low-cost technology that prevents wrong-way drivers from ever making that mistake again.
Quote from: Scott5114 on January 19, 2015, 07:41:48 PM
Death is an excellent low-cost technology that prevents wrong-way drivers from ever making that mistake again.
I recently designed funeral programs for a business associate whose 28-year-old niece was killed by a wrong way driver (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/sep/09/woman-killed-wrong-way-collision-215-identified/) on I-215 in Las Vegas. The niece was sober–the drunk wrong-way driver who hit her escaped with only minor injuries. He'll live to make the mistake again.
Does anyone here recall wrong-way drivers being a recurring problem on I-84 in New Britain, Connecticut, before the early 1980s? I remember hearing that a counterintuitive ramp setup somewhere around 72, presumably since fixed, was a contributing factor.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 19, 2015, 04:20:29 PM
Quote from: UCFKnights on January 19, 2015, 12:07:05 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 16, 2015, 02:32:02 PM
Why is it a big issue in Florida and nowhere else? Is it due to design issues with the intersections or a higher density of incompetent motorists and poor driver's education?
If it's the latter, the technology is not the issue.
Its a combination of a lot of issues. Another thing I've noticed quite a bit in the Central Florida region not mentioned here is the diluting of the meaning of the DO NOT ENTER signs that usually indicate not to go down a street. I've also noticed they're used in place of a NO LEFT TURN or AUTHORIZED VEHICLE ONLY very frequently. There is also a lot of poor placement, such as directly in the center of the median so its hard to tell which direction it is for.
That's a genuine issue. In the West Coast, we do use 'DO NOT ENTER' for authorized vehicle use, but there's usually a supplementary 'EXCEPT ...'.
In Washington, we put a DO NOT ENTER sign right at the intersection, and then up the off-ramp, there's a couple of 'WRONG WAY' (reassurance?) signs. California groups the 'DO NOT ENTER' sign and 'WRONG WAY' signs together, but also puts 'ONE WAY' signs pointing towards the intersection. Apart from that, on one way streets in the Pacific Northwest, we actually use DO NOT ENTER sparingly.
I lived in South Florida before Central Florida and I at least never noticed abuse and poorly placed signs. But my time in Central Florida definitely taught me that Do Not Enter is a sign to ignore, as its usually inaccurate or portraying a very low priority message. I've since moved away, but they also sometimes did wrong way reassurance signs, but they would sometimes put them on the jersey barrier that separate the exit/entry ramps, so the wrong way would seemingly be just as much for the right way as the wrong way. One really has to assume if the wrong way sign was to one's left, the sign was likely wrong. If its to the right, it's likely right, but that is not how we're trained on that sign.
I can't find where now, but I've also seen a do not enter with a local traffic only sign. One ramp had a do not enter sign, which did get removed thankfully after tons of complaints, facing away from the intersection on the entrance ramp. Literally everyone's first time there, when making that left, would ask if they're going the wrong way, even though they weren't as a result of a sign facing away from them without any signs facing towards them.
I really wish they would ban placing the signs at an angle intended to only be read by traffic in one direction. The Florida wind is strong and can make them twist a few degrees. and it often goes unnoticed.
San Diego Union-Tribune: Fatal wrong-way crashes lead to freeway changes -
Caltrans improving off-ramp signs after 13 died on San Diego freeways (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jan/31/wrong-way-driving-crash-caltrans/)
QuoteWrong-way drivers killed 13 people on San Diego freeways last year, an alarming number that has prompted state officials to take new measures to keep motorists going the right way.
QuoteCaltrans is conducting a pilot program this year that calls for improved warning devices, such as bigger "wrong way" signs, flashing lights and sensors, on off-ramps along Interstate 15 through much of San Diego County. Researchers will study what systems work to reduce the number of drivers who enter the freeway on those off-ramps.
QuoteAuthorities say most wrong-way driving crashes occur after midnight and involve drunken drivers who don't realize they've entered the freeway on an exit ramp. Smaller numbers of wrong-way drivers are elderly, suicidal, or trying to evade law officers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKoJY6s3ni4
This is the perfect technology to stop wrong-way drivers! Sarcasm, boy! Can't you see?
Quote from: noelbotevera on February 15, 2016, 11:09:06 PM
This is the perfect technology to stop wrong-way drivers! Sarcasm, boy! Can't you see?
The drivers that would "benefit" from that are probably too drunk (or have other brain issues) to take advantage of it.
Quote from: noelbotevera on February 15, 2016, 11:09:06 PM
This is the perfect technology to stop wrong-way drivers! Sarcasm, boy! Can't you see?
https://youtu.be/d6AnXi2N_do?t=377 (https://youtu.be/d6AnXi2N_do?t=377)
Considering the article is siting roads in Florida I would suspect that it has a lot to do with the terrible ramp designs for the tollways and older sections of Interstates in Tampa/Orlando that are being replaced currently. Just have a look at the interchange for US 17/92/441, FL 528 and Florida's Turnpike....I don't know how FDOT thought any of that was logical in the slightest. It seems like the Turnpike especially is designed to wind people around and around around and around for traffic back up at the toll plazas and even sometimes the on/off ramp are literally feet from each other.
The one I never understood that was fairly recent was the rash of wrong way accidents on I-17 in Phoenix. It seemed like there was several a year on that Interstate for a couple years in there. The only thing that I could think of that it was the older part of the freeway that as part of AZ 69 but even still they had fairly logical ramp designs and the drivers were hammered.