I would like to know, which states have state route shields on BGS that are different from standalone shields ?
I know that in New Mexico, the BGS shields don't normally include the red Zia symbol. Also, 3-digit BGS shields are normally elliptical while 3-digit standalone shields are nearly always circular.
Does anyone know of other examples?
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Texas moves the state name from the bottom to the top, and the FM/RM shield is usually completely different.
Rhode Island usually removes the R.I.
It wouldn't surprise me if Minnesota county roads are handled differently on guide signs.
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Minnesota county roads are handled differently on guide signs.
Having driven through there, it varies by county (and sometimes by exit).
We do nothing weird.
Quote from: SD Mapman on January 16, 2015, 09:39:55 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Minnesota county roads are handled differently on guide signs.
Having driven through there, it varies by county (and sometimes by exit).
We do nothing weird.
I also know New Mexico used to use white rectangular shields with the abbreviation C.R. and the route number on BGS for county routes, however, newer BGS use the correct blue/gold pentagon shields.
I'm not sure about Massachusetts. There are 3 "types" of state route shields, but they may or may not have any correlation with BGS/standalone:
1. Square (2-digit). Can occasionally appear on 3-digit routes.
2. Rectangular, with the most common font size used. Usually for 1xx routes.
3. Rectangular, with a thinner font used for the numerals. Used for some 2xx routes, but not all.
In addition, there are two "erroneous" state route shield types. These are almost always standalone.
4. Thick bordered shields, pretending to be in Connecticut.
5. MA 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 20, 44, and 202. Especially 202 (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ma/us_202/).
Quote from: Pink Jazz on January 16, 2015, 09:31:21 PM
I would like to know, which states have state route shields on BGS that are different from standalone shields ?
I know that in New Mexico, the BGS shields don't normally include the red Zia symbol. Also, 3-digit BGS shields are normally elliptical while 3-digit standalone shields are nearly always circular.
Does anyone know of other examples?
Texas. Farm Roads on the exit signs are rectangles with FM and the route number. The free standing Farm Road signs are white silhouettes on black with a black number.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3240/3058210557_c63acddfe5_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7250/7423581600_1e3ac8f24c_z_d.jpg)
HOWEVER: there are FR signs along some non-Interstates that use a while silhouette on a green sign
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2258/2475275342_5c048c80c2_z_d.jpg)
In addition: Massachusetts has numbers without shields (in the form of paddle signs). This would be neither standalone nor BGS, but its own separate category. I forgot to mention this before.
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions... (sentence continues)
You mentioned it yourself.
Michigan
Independent mount shields are always square, and have a bold, slab-serif M in the top.
On freeway and expressway guide signs, the M is omitted, and for three digit routes the square is stretched to become a rhombus.
Ohio
Although very similar, the shape of the state route marker has minor differences between guide sign and independent mount usage (as well as between two and three digit routes–it's not just a geometric stretch). One might argue that the difference is insignificant, but there are separate specs pages for each type, so...
Nevada
BGS version has simplified state outline (compared to independent mount) which omits the state name.
New York. You probably all know about our shields. Thankfully, the short and fat shields on signs are being replaced by standard shields as signage is replaced.
Ontario is another example, with a greatly simplified shield being displayed on signage.
Montana and Arizona both neuter their state route markers on BGSs.
Idaho BGSes are black on white instead of the usual white on black.
Quote from: SD Mapman on January 16, 2015, 09:39:55 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Minnesota county roads are handled differently on guide signs.
Having driven through there, it varies by county (and sometimes by exit).
We do nothing weird.
Minnesota county markers on guide signs are handled uniformly. Both the blue pentagonal and white square signs omit the county name and move "COUNTY" to the top of the sign, e.g. COUNTY / 45.
Quote from: corco on January 16, 2015, 10:40:29 PM
Montana and Arizona both neuter their state route markers on BGSs.
Idaho BGSes are black on white instead of the usual white on black.
Not the case for the approach signage for the junction of US 93 and MT 200 at The Wye. All six approach signs on Interstate 90 don't show a neutered "200". It shows the state-named "200". It was neutered before it was changed to the state named shield. I don't think all of Montana's route markers on interstate signage are neutered.
Quote from: Billy F 1988 on January 16, 2015, 11:41:31 PM
Quote from: corco on January 16, 2015, 10:40:29 PM
Montana and Arizona both neuter their state route markers on BGSs.
Idaho BGSes are black on white instead of the usual white on black.
Not the case for the approach signage for the junction of US 93 and MT 200 at The Wye. All six approach signs on Interstate 90 don't show a neutered "200". It shows the state-named "200". It was neutered before it was changed to the state named shield. I don't think all of Montana's route markers on interstate signage are neutered.
Well right, there's the odd exception everywhere- Idaho and Arizona have oddities too. Generally though...I've driven the entire interstate mileage in both directions in Montana, I can off the top of my head think of only two instances with non-neutered shields. One is where you described and the other is at I-15 and Montana 68 in Cascade.
The old green filled in Louisiana shields on BGS of which I think there are only a few left at junctioning highways, and not on mainline interstates anymore
Maryland omits the state name from its state route signs when they are on BGSs.
Quote from: US71 on January 16, 2015, 10:03:11 PM
Texas. Farm Roads on the exit signs are rectangles with FM and the route number. The free standing Farm Road signs are white silhouettes on black with a black number.
HOWEVER: there are FR signs along some non-Interstates that use a while silhouette on a green sign
Also, standalone signs are always square, while BGSs can be rectangles and have proportionally larger numbers. And I'm not sure if a border counts as a background, but no borders on BGSs.
SC uses Series on the standalone markers, but series E on the BGS markers.
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Tempting fate here, but NJ does something interesting with county routes. It's been beaten to death that NJ doesn't (usually) use cutouts for state or US routes, but they also *add* a yellow-orange background to the county route shield.
Quote from: 1 on January 16, 2015, 09:52:10 PM
I'm not sure about Massachusetts. There are 3 "types" of state route shields, but they may or may not have any correlation with BGS/standalone:
1. Square (2-digit). Can occasionally appear on 3-digit routes.
2. Rectangular, with the most common font size used. Usually for 1xx routes.
3. Rectangular, with a thinner font used for the numerals. Used for some 2xx routes, but not all.
In addition, there are two "erroneous" state route shield types. These are almost always standalone.
4. Thick bordered shields, pretending to be in Connecticut.
5. MA 1, 3, 5, 6, 7, 20, 44, and 202. Especially 202 (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ma/us_202/).
Don't forget
6. "Television" outline shield: https://goo.gl/maps/Sk6JZ
Quote from: bassoon1986 on January 17, 2015, 12:19:13 AM
The old green filled in Louisiana shields on BGS of which I think there are only a few left at junctioning highways, and not on mainline interstates anymore
I think this is the last: http://www.instantstreetview.com/2bmpwvz1mhtn2z24tzpgz2u (http://www.instantstreetview.com/2bmpwvz1mhtn2z24tzpgz2u)
Or maybe the last 2: http://www.instantstreetview.com/2bml69z1mhmd2z1pbzoqz2u (http://www.instantstreetview.com/2bml69z1mhmd2z1pbzoqz2u)
Also in Louisiana...the BGSs don't put the LA above the number as the state route markers have.
Cjk, I'd forgotten about that exit since most of Louisiana has gone through an overhaul on BGS and many of them to clearview.
The old style LA shields on BGS that I know of left are on US 71/LA 1 at I-220 and on LA 1 northbound approaching the Natchitoches Bypass
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on January 17, 2015, 12:52:41 AM
Maryland omits the state name from its state route signs when they are on BGSs.
Usually, though I have seen Maryland BGS panels with the state name included.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on January 17, 2015, 10:52:29 PM
Cjk, I'd forgotten about that exit since most of Louisiana has gone through an overhaul on BGS and many of them to clearview.
The old style LA shields on BGS that I know of left are on US 71/LA 1 at I-220 and on LA 1 northbound approaching the Natchitoches Bypass
You can mark US 71/LA 1 @ I-220 off your list, as all of those BGS shields are now white fill-ins.
However, I have never been on LA 1 south of Natchitoches. This is a nice find. So that means we now have the only 3 BGSs left in LA with the open state shield cataloged in this thread?
http://www.instantstreetview.com/2b3wfwz1mwkupz2u4zp6z2u (http://www.instantstreetview.com/2b3wfwz1mwkupz2u4zp6z2u)
I know it has been mentioned, but Ontario has probably the most dramatic difference between route route shields on BGS vs standalone shields:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_400_images%2F400_dv_20_north_Apr05.jpg&hash=a37c7217fc36001129392a6a5304cf2c5bba1916)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_401_images%2F401_sign_HoH_Bill.jpg&hash=3085b38977383402df6b146ccfa59b92392bfbf5)
The only real difference in Washington, that I recall, is that on the BGSes, the route shield is a cut out, but is on a black background when stand alone, except for the experimentation with LGSes to make everything uniform. Don't get me started on how inconsistent the fonts are for the numbers, we could be here all day.
Indiana, uses a square sign with Indiana written at the top, which is omitted from BGSes.
Did anyone mention Michigan yet? Standalone shields have an "M" at the top, while BGS shields do not.
The Indiana BGS route markers do, in fact, have the state name. They have the black outline and are pretty much identical to the standalone markers.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2010_SEPA_Day_6%2FImages%2F7.jpg&hash=1153182a732f0a58707ada3dab5703f9d677b468)
However, Illinois' BGS route markers do not have the black outline.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.millenniumhwy.net%2F2010_Iowa_Day_2%2FImages%2F25.jpg&hash=9ea2d4dc0e4014b043c527322afadf8e22dd51fb)
No one has mentioned the Connecticut outline button copy state route markers.
Quote from: hbelkins on January 18, 2015, 03:44:25 PM
No one has mentioned the Connecticut outline button copy state route markers.
Like this:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4069/4357139764_39b4f85d4d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7D2tRo)
Thankfully those are going away.
Quote from: kurumi on January 18, 2015, 04:20:17 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on January 18, 2015, 03:44:25 PM
No one has mentioned the Connecticut outline button copy state route markers.
Like this:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4069/4357139764_39b4f85d4d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/7D2tRo)
Thankfully those are going away.
Why in any way are you thankful?
Quote from: TEG24601 on January 18, 2015, 12:24:10 PM
The only real difference in Washington, that I recall, is that on the BGSes, the route shield is a cut out, but is on a black background when stand alone...
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
I'll just leave this here.
Oklahoma has subtle differences involving the placement of the state outline relative to the number. On BGS signs the number is quite a bit further south.
I'd say Idaho has different shields from the BGS, but I don't really know what's the proper standard for their shields.
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/idaho090/i-090_eb_exit_062_04.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fb9%2FID-4.svg%2F250px-ID-4.svg.png&hash=a1629629a08caf44d33798bb5f451052d8407508)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on January 18, 2015, 08:06:18 PM
I'd say Idaho has different shields from the BGS, but I don't really know what's the proper standard for their shields.
(https://www.aaroads.com/west/idaho090/i-090_eb_exit_062_04.jpg)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2Fb%2Fb9%2FID-4.svg%2F250px-ID-4.svg.png&hash=a1629629a08caf44d33798bb5f451052d8407508)
That is the proper shield standard- top is normal BGS, bottom is normal standalone marker.
Steve Riner already mentioned what Minnesota does with county routes.
Minnesota also has another difference: 3-digit US and Minnesota routes have 2-digit-sized shields for standalone shields, but 3-digit-sized shields on guide signage. There are a few examples otherwise, of a 3-digit-size standalone shield (first one coming to mind is MN 210 around Fergus Falls), but these are contractor errors.
Until the mid 1990s, Massachusetts state route shields on BGS signs omitted the inset border, while standalone shields had the border.
When I went to Utah years ago, I noticed that some of the really old BGS's used a distorted beehive that looked like a big puffy cloud instead of the beehive on stand-alone shields.
Quote from: bandit957 on January 21, 2015, 01:19:09 PM
When I went to Utah years ago, I noticed that some of the really old BGS's used a distorted beehive that looked like a big puffy cloud instead of the beehive on stand-alone shields.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fut%2Fi-15%2Fscedar.jpg&hash=8637a39a422940b0bac815466734459a275f34b9)
from http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ut/i-15/
Wisconsin's STH BGS shield is different then the standalone version, it is more rounded and has slightly different aspect ratio.
Quote from: NE2 on January 21, 2015, 01:20:41 PM
Quote from: bandit957 on January 21, 2015, 01:19:09 PM
When I went to Utah years ago, I noticed that some of the really old BGS's used a distorted beehive that looked like a big puffy cloud instead of the beehive on stand-alone shields.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fut%2Fi-15%2Fscedar.jpg&hash=8637a39a422940b0bac815466734459a275f34b9)
from http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ut/i-15/
Quit goofing around, Utah.
Quote from: roadman on January 21, 2015, 12:36:08 PM
Until the mid 1990s, Massachusetts state route shields on BGS signs omitted the inset border, while standalone shields had the border.
Additionally, such omission of the inset border was done on state BGS shields since the early 70s. Earlier BGS' included the black inset on state route shields (which were usually more rectangular)
as well as on US shields*.
The original 70s era
modern BGS' along US 1 and I-95 in Peabody & Danvers had a mixture of shields with and without black insets.
The BGS' at the MA 114 interchange had the inset borders but the ones further north at the MA 62 interchange did not. The dividing line seemed to be at the Centre St./Dayton St. interchange. If one was heading to US 1 South from Centre St., they were greeting with two
1 SOUTH TO 114 Peabody BGS' at each right turn; the one just after the US 1 overpass had the black insets on both shields but the one at the Dayton St. intersection did not.
It's assumed that the BGS' from Centre St. south are slightly older (~1 year) than the BGS' northward.
*A couple recent LGS' along US 20 at MA 32 in Palmer feature black inset borders on its US 20 shields.
US 20 West D8 LGS (http://goo.gl/maps/m5xhW)
US 20 East-MA 32 South D6 LGS (pardon the GSV blur on the US 20 shield) (http://goo.gl/maps/A36RR)
Florida used to have "partial cutouts" on most BGSes, where the number is boxed in on the west coast of the outline, just like the standalone shields. But the east coast was cut away. These seemed to disappear in the 1990s, but they can still be found from time to time.
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2924/14054436347_71a3db84a8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/npWEh4)
There were also stretched rectangle shields for some 1970s/80s-era three-digit routes. This style seems to be gone now.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3447/3394205370_b39737f172_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/6aWc1f)
They would get even more of a stretch at the Panhandle if it was a state secondary route (S-###).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Ffl%2Ffl_834%2Fw95.jpg&hash=12a5451cc6e6da508f3d8a8e37f0e0af577a1c1f)
(Photo courtesy of AlpsRoads/Michael Summa)
Quote from: US71 on January 16, 2015, 10:03:11 PM
Texas. Farm Roads on the exit signs are rectangles with FM and the route number. The free standing Farm Road signs are white silhouettes on black with a black number.
A far more subtle difference: for state highways, the word "TEXAS" appears on the top of the marker on a BGS, but on the bottom of the standalone shield.
Quote from: formulanone on January 21, 2015, 04:25:46 PM
They would get even more of a stretch at the Panhandle if it was a state secondary route (S-###).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Ffl%2Ffl_834%2Fw95.jpg&hash=12a5451cc6e6da508f3d8a8e37f0e0af577a1c1f)
(Photo courtesy of AlpsRoads/Michael Summa)
Wow, that looks ridiculous.
At least it's a simple extension, rather than a stretch like is so easily done with computers these days...
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 21, 2015, 02:44:40 PM
Quote from: roadman on January 21, 2015, 12:36:08 PM
Until the mid 1990s, Massachusetts state route shields on BGS signs omitted the inset border, while standalone shields had the border.
Additionally, such omission of the inset border was done on state BGS shields since the early 70s. Earlier BGS' included the black inset on state route shields (which were usually more rectangular) as well as on US shields*.
The original 70s era modern BGS' along US 1 and I-95 in Peabody & Danvers had a mixture of shields with and without black insets.
The BGS' at the MA 114 interchange had the inset borders but the ones further north at the MA 62 interchange did not. The dividing line seemed to be at the Centre St./Dayton St. interchange. If one was heading to US 1 South from Centre St., they were greeting with two 1 SOUTH TO 114 Peabody BGS' at each right turn; the one just after the US 1 overpass had the black insets on both shields but the one at the Dayton St. intersection did not.
It's assumed that the BGS' from Centre St. south are slightly older (~1 year) than the BGS' northward.
I miss those old signs as I once lived not too far from them. I seem to recall that in the late 80s or early 90s(?) a pair of old stacked BGSs were faithfully carbon-copied with very rectangular 114 shields with inset borders approaching 114 on US 1 NB, but alas they did not last all that long because the general replacement along that stretch with overheads with boring shields happened soon after.
I always wondered about the BGS signing on US 1 through Saugus and Lynnfield that is also from the 90s, in many instances on the all-access section in Saugus being the first BGSs for the old interchanges that previously only had paddle signage for advances (Lynn Fells Parkway being the exception due to its younger age)....They seemed to use the Walnut St. interchange lawns for some storage and preparation. Guess which interchange NEVER got any new BGSs (despite MA 129 entering/leaving US 1 there)....yep, Walnut Street. Never understood how they overlooked, missed, omitted, or whatever.
On IN 25 near Delphi the new signage for the US 421/IN 18/IN 39 exit has borderless perfectly square shields for 18 and 39 that scream that they were made by someone more familiar with making Illinois signage. They look totally wrong.
I am with Steve. Why be thankful that the Connecticut button copy outline markers are going away? I like them. Connecticut should have pulled a Caltrans and made standalone markers white on green, leaving BGS shields alone, so that they would all match. :D (And specify button copy for the shields, even on otherwise reflective signs, because I said so.)
Quote from: bandit957 on January 21, 2015, 09:24:01 PM
Quote from: formulanone on January 21, 2015, 04:25:46 PM
They would get even more of a stretch at the Panhandle if it was a state secondary route (S-###).
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Ffl%2Ffl_834%2Fw95.jpg&hash=12a5451cc6e6da508f3d8a8e37f0e0af577a1c1f)
(Photo courtesy of AlpsRoads/Michael Summa)
Wow, that looks ridiculous.
Looks like FL now owns Mobile, Gulfport, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, and everything from there to Houston. :sombrero: :pan:
Quote from: cjk374 on January 22, 2015, 06:27:07 AM
Looks like FL now owns Mobile, Gulfport, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, and everything from there to Houston. :sombrero: :pan:
West Florida will rise again.
Quote from: PurdueBill on January 22, 2015, 01:03:28 AMI miss those old signs as I once lived not too far from them. I seem to recall that in the late 80s or early 90s(?) a pair of old stacked BGSs were faithfully carbon-copied with very rectangular 114 shields with inset borders approaching 114 on US 1 NB, but alas they did not last all that long because the general replacement along that stretch with overheads with boring shields happened soon after.
Sometime around 1983 or 1984; the DPW replaced the shields on its BGS' along I-95 mainline between Exits 46 and 50 (the numbers & exit tabs weren't erected yet) with ones that were (more) reflective. These newer MA 62 & MA 114 shields did not have the black insets and the ground-mounted BGS' had smaller, squarer shields vs. the retro-fitted shields on the overhead BGS'.
Additionally, the replacement US 1 shields for those I-95 BGS' were white squares with the US shield outlined in them.
IIRC, the only BGS' along US 1 mainline that had the 80s replacement shields placed on them were at the I-95 interchange (Exit 50) and at I-95/MA 128 interchange (Exit 44); the latter BGS' were only a year or two old when the DPW erected replacement I-95 & MA 128 shields (the original shields featured the experimental font that both the DPW & RIDOT toyed around with at the time). Strangely, one supplemental BGS along US 1 South between Exit 46 & 44 replaced its I-95 shield but not the accompanying I-90 shield that had a very strange font for the
90 numerals.
The newly replaced shields also coincided with the DPW rewording its I-95/MA 128 interchange BGS from:
95 SOUTH 128
Burlington
Gloucesterto
95 SOUTH 128 NORTH-SOUTH
Burlington
Gloucester(the direction cardinals were much smaller and the
NORTH-SOUTH listings for 128 were stacked vertically)
Additionally, the original 70s era ground-mounted BGS at the MA 114 East exit ramp from US 1 South was replaced with an identical BGS (sans the the black inset for the MA 114 shield & displaced
EAST lettering (the DPW accidentally featured NORTH-SOUTH cardinals for 114 and changed them some 2 years later)) sometime during the late 80s. Such was like a replacement due to the original BGS being damaged in an accident.
Quote from: PurdueBill on January 22, 2015, 01:03:28 AMI always wondered about the BGS signing on US 1 through Saugus and Lynnfield that is also from the 90s, in many instances on the all-access section in Saugus being the first BGSs for the old interchanges that previously only had paddle signage for advances (Lynn Fells Parkway being the exception due to its younger age)....They seemed to use the Walnut St. interchange lawns for some storage and preparation. Guess which interchange NEVER got any new BGSs (despite MA 129 entering/leaving US 1 there)....yep, Walnut Street. Never understood how they overlooked, missed, omitted, or whatever.
If memory serves, I briefly saw a set of proposed signing plans during the late 80s at the District 5 DPW office that showed a revised diamond interchange for US 1/MA 129 & Walnut St. as well as freeway-style BGS'. Needless to say, that interchange redesign & corresponding sings never happened.
Prior to the 90s, the only BGS' along US 1 between
but not including the I-95/MA 128 & MA 99 interchanges in S. Lynnfield & Saugus were the early-70s era BGS at the Lynn Fells Parkway and the late 60s/early 70s BGS' (with button-copy all-caps lettering) at the MA 129 East/Lynnfield St. interchange.
Jersey puts all of its BGS shields on backdrops (except interstates) and that includes county roads which are on gold backdrops. Standalones are of the cutout variety.
Quote from: ekt8750 on January 22, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Jersey puts all of its BGS shields on backdrops (except interstates) and that includes county roads which are on gold backdrops. Standalones are of the cutout variety.
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2015, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: ekt8750 on January 22, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Jersey puts all of its BGS shields on backdrops (except interstates) and that includes county roads which are on gold backdrops. Standalones are of the cutout variety.
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
I live though. I mentioned backgrounds being added where there aren't usually backgrounds :)
Quote from: on_wisconsin on January 21, 2015, 01:48:21 PM
Wisconsin's STH BGS shield is different then the standalone version, it is more rounded and has slightly different aspect ratio.
The BGS shield is also the only place you'll find the shape change (widen) for a three-digit highway in Wisconsin.
Quote from: ekt8750 on January 23, 2015, 12:03:35 AM
Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2015, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: ekt8750 on January 22, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Jersey puts all of its BGS shields on backdrops (except interstates) and that includes county roads which are on gold backdrops. Standalones are of the cutout variety.
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
I live though. I mentioned backgrounds being added where there aren't usually backgrounds :)
To be fair, I think New Jersey is a different animal. NE2's comment was about using cutouts on the BGS and black square backgrounds for independent mounts, which basically all 49 other states do. Ekt is posting about NJ doing the opposite for county routes, using cutouts for independent mounts, but including a yellow square on BGSs.
That said, if memory serves, this practice is inconsistent at best.
Quote from: ekt8750 on January 23, 2015, 12:03:35 AM
Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2015, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: ekt8750 on January 22, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Jersey puts all of its BGS shields on backdrops (except interstates) and that includes county roads which are on gold backdrops. Standalones are of the cutout variety.
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
I live though. I mentioned backgrounds being added where there aren't usually backgrounds :)
Quote from: odditude on January 17, 2015, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Tempting fate here, but NJ does something interesting with county routes. It's been beaten to death that NJ doesn't (usually) use cutouts for state or US routes, but they also *add* a yellow-orange background to the county route shield.
...so that was already covered a week ago, too.
Of course there is Texas with totally different shields on BGSes than on stand alone shields for TX FM routes. The freeway signs get a square while the stand alone signs get a Texas outline.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 23, 2015, 12:32:52 PM
Of course there is Texas with totally different shields on BGSes than on stand alone shields for TX FM routes. The freeway signs get a square
Not usually, unless the number is the perfect width.
Quote from: NE2 on January 23, 2015, 01:28:36 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 23, 2015, 12:32:52 PM
Of course there is Texas with totally different shields on BGSes than on stand alone shields for TX FM routes. The freeway signs get a square
Not usually, unless the number is the perfect width.
Yes, I stand corrected some of those 3 digits and especially the 4 digit routes do get the rectangle just like in NJ, DE, and KY where anything more than 2 digits gets an oval instead of the circle.
Anyway, the guide signs do not even come close to the actual shield design itself. At least with neutered or non neutered shields at least keeps the same design, which is the difference, in lets say RI and MD, between the stand alone shields and the BGS shields.
Quote from: AsphaltPlanet on January 18, 2015, 12:14:30 PM
I know it has been mentioned, but Ontario has probably the most dramatic difference between route route shields on BGS vs standalone shields:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_400_images%2F400_dv_20_north_Apr05.jpg&hash=a37c7217fc36001129392a6a5304cf2c5bba1916)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.asphaltplanet.ca%2FON%2Fhwy_401_images%2F401_sign_HoH_Bill.jpg&hash=3085b38977383402df6b146ccfa59b92392bfbf5)
Not to mention, Trailblazer shields for at least the 400-series freeways are white-on-green shields :
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpsroads.net%2Froads%2Fon%2Fon_2%2Fw401.jpg&hash=1037dfb7166de9e7bb2f7a85a5d224b2ba669cf4)
I am also surprised that no one has yet to mention California's BGSs which usually use a neutered outline of the California spade, while the ground-mounted shields are white-on-green and state named.
I never understood the difference of the crowns on Ontario's highways. It is just like Puerto Rico and the the different colors of their shields on the one's that would be state highways if it were a state. Some are black on white and some are white on blue. I know there the circle gets used for secondary roads and the county like gold on blue shields are regional roads on that island. However, I do not know what each means in Ontario.
Quote from: roadman65 on January 23, 2015, 07:53:02 PM
I never understood the difference of the crowns on Ontario's highways. It is just like Puerto Rico and the the different colors of their shields on the one's that would be state highways if it were a state. Some are black on white and some are white on blue. I know there the circle gets used for secondary roads and the county like gold on blue shields are regional roads on that island. However, I do not know what each means in Ontario.
Puerto Rico used to use semicircular signs with a silhouette of the island on standalone shields, while BGS shields were circular. With the 1999 shield redesign indicating the class of route (primary, urban primary, secondary, and tertiary), newer BGS now typically have the same type of shields as standalone shields, although there still exists some older signage with circular shields on BGS for primary, urban primary, and secondary routes.
And actually, the county style pentagon shields are used for secondary routes while circular shields are used for tertiary routes. Seems counterintuitive for statesiders, but that is actually the way it is in Puerto Rico. White on blue shields are primary highways, while the same design except in black on white are urban primary routes and are typically mostly found in the urban areas of the island (San Juan metro area, Ponce, Mayaguez, Arecibo, and Aguadilla).
I remember back in 1976 when I was there as a kid the circle was used for all highways even PR 26 which was an arterial back then known as Baldiority de Castro Avenue and not Expressway as it is now. Then again that was when Puerto Rico used NJ style signal practices at intersections with the back to back signal heads on two separate mast arms. Now they seemed to adopted Florida's practice of all black signal heads 12-12-12 where they used to be yellow 12-8-8 or green signal heads. The island seemed to have done a major shield and signal change since then.
A couple of comments related to other things said earlier:
Wisconsin's county markers are different between independent mount and BGS usage. The BGS version lacks the word "County" and the distinctive black border. Instead, it's just a square with the letters.
Michigan also uses the gold background behind pentagons on BGS. I seem to recall seeing a white background behind off-Interstate business route markers as well, but I think it was only in one location.
I'm surprised that the Louisiana people completely missed the main difference between BGS shields and standalone shields. Newer standalone shields have a properly-proportioned outline of the state. BGSs have a distorted outline of the state with a flatter coastline. Personally, I think they should just make a standard cutout with a flat coastline for the BGSs. (Thought I had a mockup saved but apparently not.)
Quote from: roadman65 on January 23, 2015, 07:53:02 PM
I never understood the difference of the crowns on Ontario's highways. I do not know what each means in Ontario.
Well, as far as I know there are non-cut outs and cutouts, but they mean the same thing. The non-cut outs seem to be mostly at junctions:
http://goo.gl/maps/clt4a (this one is a classic, old Ontario font)
http://goo.gl/maps/Y1Ima (again, an old shield, next to an Ontario Secondary route shield.
Then... there's this. Don't really know what to think. Clearview, a non-cut out, cutout shield... the city of Sault Ste Marie.
http://goo.gl/maps/ishHa
But cutouts are standard and trailblazer signs posted along a highway:
http://goo.gl/maps/ZNAro
http://goo.gl/maps/ikQGM
Green shields are for TO routes, though I'm not a fan because the word TO is difficult to read.
http://goo.gl/maps/Osdt5 (very old non-cut out with old Ontario font, but cut-outs exist I believe).
On a BGS: http://goo.gl/maps/Y9Kp5
For BGSes, the standard is "the wide crown".
Quote from: jbnv on March 16, 2015, 10:24:50 PM
I'm surprised that the Louisiana people completely missed the main difference between BGS shields and standalone shields. Newer standalone shields have a properly-proportioned outline of the state. BGSs have a distorted outline of the state with a flatter coastline. Personally, I think they should just make a standard cutout with a flat coastline for the BGSs. (Thought I had a mockup saved but apparently not.)
Some of our BGSs have some fairly decent shields:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.547949,-92.776554,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQh9aSf6H5fBz7A2shnIvbw!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.547949,-92.776554,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQh9aSf6H5fBz7A2shnIvbw!2e0)
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.34962,-89.91523,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdVDyqKQBG3ZuCjhDyu7k0A!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.34962,-89.91523,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdVDyqKQBG3ZuCjhDyu7k0A!2e0)
And then we have our not-so-great shields:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.566689,-92.92513,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDkSL8lXbc-7L298afLDZ7A!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.566689,-92.92513,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDkSL8lXbc-7L298afLDZ7A!2e0)
Quote from: cjk374 on March 18, 2015, 09:01:43 PM
Quote from: jbnv on March 16, 2015, 10:24:50 PM
I'm surprised that the Louisiana people completely missed the main difference between BGS shields and standalone shields. Newer standalone shields have a properly-proportioned outline of the state. BGSs have a distorted outline of the state with a flatter coastline. Personally, I think they should just make a standard cutout with a flat coastline for the BGSs. (Thought I had a mockup saved but apparently not.)
Some of our BGSs have some fairly decent shields:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.547949,-92.776554,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQh9aSf6H5fBz7A2shnIvbw!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.547949,-92.776554,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQh9aSf6H5fBz7A2shnIvbw!2e0)
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.34962,-89.91523,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdVDyqKQBG3ZuCjhDyu7k0A!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.34962,-89.91523,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdVDyqKQBG3ZuCjhDyu7k0A!2e0)
And then we have our not-so-great shields:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.566689,-92.92513,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDkSL8lXbc-7L298afLDZ7A!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.566689,-92.92513,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDkSL8lXbc-7L298afLDZ7A!2e0)
There are a couple of really old-style Louisiana shields on BGS's on I-10 near Gonzales:
https://goo.gl/maps/pOKHX
They're very narrow
Quote from: odditude on January 23, 2015, 09:15:19 AM
Quote from: ekt8750 on January 23, 2015, 12:03:35 AM
Quote from: cl94 on January 22, 2015, 11:54:18 PM
Quote from: ekt8750 on January 22, 2015, 11:49:34 PM
Jersey puts all of its BGS shields on backdrops (except interstates) and that includes county roads which are on gold backdrops. Standalones are of the cutout variety.
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming.
I live though. I mentioned backgrounds being added where there aren't usually backgrounds :)
Quote from: odditude on January 17, 2015, 10:47:41 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
Tempting fate here, but NJ does something interesting with county routes. It's been beaten to death that NJ doesn't (usually) use cutouts for state or US routes, but they also *add* a yellow-orange background to the county route shield.
...so that was already covered a week ago, too.
What nobody mentioned is that county names are not included on BGSs, which is significant for the 600+ series which can repeat from county to county sometimes not far from each other (see CR 644 in Gloucester County vs CR 644 in Camden County).
Quote from: roadman65 on January 23, 2015, 03:50:52 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 23, 2015, 01:28:36 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on January 23, 2015, 12:32:52 PM
Of course there is Texas with totally different shields on BGSes than on stand alone shields for TX FM routes. The freeway signs get a square
Not usually, unless the number is the perfect width.
Yes, I stand corrected some of those 3 digits and especially the 4 digit routes do get the rectangle just like in NJ, DE, and KY where anything more than 2 digits gets an oval instead of the circle.
Anyway, the guide signs do not even come close to the actual shield design itself. At least with neutered or non neutered shields at least keeps the same design, which is the difference, in lets say RI and MD, between the stand alone shields and the BGS shields.
I've seen a rectangular blank used on an overhead BGS for a two-digit FM number before, though I can't remember precisely where. Somewhere on I-35 southbound north of Hillsboro, I'm pretty sure. I don't think I've ever seen it for a 1dsr, though.
Quote from: bassoon1986 on March 19, 2015, 10:59:51 AM
Quote from: cjk374 on March 18, 2015, 09:01:43 PM
Quote from: jbnv on March 16, 2015, 10:24:50 PM
I'm surprised that the Louisiana people completely missed the main difference between BGS shields and standalone shields. Newer standalone shields have a properly-proportioned outline of the state. BGSs have a distorted outline of the state with a flatter coastline. Personally, I think they should just make a standard cutout with a flat coastline for the BGSs. (Thought I had a mockup saved but apparently not.)
Some of our BGSs have some fairly decent shields:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.547949,-92.776554,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQh9aSf6H5fBz7A2shnIvbw!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.547949,-92.776554,3a,75y,270h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sQh9aSf6H5fBz7A2shnIvbw!2e0)
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.34962,-89.91523,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdVDyqKQBG3ZuCjhDyu7k0A!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.34962,-89.91523,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sdVDyqKQBG3ZuCjhDyu7k0A!2e0)
And then we have our not-so-great shields:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.566689,-92.92513,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDkSL8lXbc-7L298afLDZ7A!2e0 (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.566689,-92.92513,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sDkSL8lXbc-7L298afLDZ7A!2e0)
There are a couple of really old-style Louisiana shields on BGS's on I-10 near Gonzales:
https://goo.gl/maps/pOKHX
They're very narrow
But then you have one of 5 of these classics left in the entire field known as Louisiana...specifically northwest LA: http://www.instantstreetview.com/@32.519841,-93.708079,-148.9h,-3.4p,1z (http://www.instantstreetview.com/@32.519841,-93.708079,-148.9h,-3.4p,1z)
Links to the other 4 can be found here: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=79.msg2035505#msg2035505 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=79.msg2035505#msg2035505)
Quote from: Kacie Jane on January 18, 2015, 07:22:07 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on January 18, 2015, 12:24:10 PM
The only real difference in Washington, that I recall, is that on the BGSes, the route shield is a cut out, but is on a black background when stand alone...
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
I'll just leave this here.
It was more of a test... plus, it was really the font inconsistencies that were my point, but too lengthy to say here.
Also, I do recall seeing the name on Indiana's BGSs but that seems relatively new, like since the new speed limits too hold.
Quote from: TEG24601 on March 22, 2015, 05:19:25 PM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on January 18, 2015, 07:22:07 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on January 18, 2015, 12:24:10 PM
The only real difference in Washington, that I recall, is that on the BGSes, the route shield is a cut out, but is on a black background when stand alone...
Quote from: NE2 on January 16, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
I'll shoot anyone who mentions the background being removed on guide signs.
I'll just leave this here.
It was more of a test... plus, it was really the font inconsistencies that were my point, but too lengthy to say here.
Also, I do recall seeing the name on Indiana's BGSs but that seems relatively new, like since the new speed limits too hold.
Indiana, like Illinois, uses the state name on the state route bgs shields 99.99% of the time, and has for decades.