http://www.idot.illinois.gov/projects/il-29-project-study
Anyone else find this project kind of stupid? I do for a couple of reasons
1. I thought IDOT decided a four-lane facility was not needed in this corridor? You already have I-39 just east of the project area, what will this solve?
2. If they are going to build it, why not just make it fully access-controlled (freeway) the entire length? They are proposing to extend the IL-6 freeway to Chillicothe and put interchanges in Sparland and Henry, so it would not be terribly difficult to do. Again, I don't think this is necessary due to I-39 being just east, but building an expressway to connect two freeway's doesn't make sense.
3. IDOT needs to focus it's resources on completing IL-336 between Macomb and Peoria (including the Macomb bypass). That is more worthwhile IMO.
Does anyone know whether or not this corridor will be fully utilized, when it is fully built? Or will it be under-utilized like Interstate 180 to the north?
In all truth, NEITHER corridor really needs to be a 4-lane corridor. Looking at traffic volumes, Macomb-Peoria has even less than the IL 29 corridor.
Looking at both projects, the only parts that would really be cost effective are extending IL 6 to Chillicothe, a Macomb bypass (but more for US 67 than for "IL 336" or "IL 110" or whatever they're calling it these days), a 2-lane bypass of Canton, and a more direct connection from IL 116 to I-474. That's about all that's really needed. Volumes are just too low to justify more.
Quote from: froggie on February 04, 2015, 04:36:04 PM
In all truth, NEITHER corridor really needs to be a 4-lane corridor. Looking at traffic volumes, Macomb-Peoria has even less than the IL 29 corridor.
Looking at both projects, the only parts that would really be cost effective are extending IL 6 to Chillicothe, a Macomb bypass (but more for US 67 than for "IL 336" or "IL 110" or whatever they're calling it these days), a 2-lane bypass of Canton, and a more direct connection from IL 116 to I-474. That's about all that's really needed. Volumes are just too low to justify more.
I disagree about IL-336. I think the traffic volumes are low because there is not a direct 4 lane connection between Macomb and Peoria. Put in the expressway and you'll see traffic on the corridor skyrocket. Western Illinois needs some highway access. IL-29 however, is not needed.
People who really want to go to Peoria from western IL already have existing state highways to utilize. Quite a few. Even if you consolidate those together, volumes would have to double before you'd get to a range where a 4-lane could be justified, and that type of "skyrocketing" just isn't in the cards. The proposed new-terrain route between Macomb and Peoria closely follows various routes (including on top of sections of IL 78 and IL 116), so there's already a way to get a rough gauge on what volumes are like. In short, not enough. 67 warrants far more attention than this.
Sometimes it's better to have multiple two lane routes available rather than one four lane that takes all the traffic.
Quote from: froggie on February 04, 2015, 05:07:24 PM
People who really want to go to Peoria from western IL already have existing state highways to utilize. Quite a few. Even if you consolidate those together, volumes would have to double before you'd get to a range where a 4-lane could be justified, and that type of "skyrocketing" just isn't in the cards. The proposed new-terrain route between Macomb and Peoria closely follows various routes (including on top of sections of IL 78 and IL 116), so there's already a way to get a rough gauge on what volumes are like. In short, not enough. 67 warrants far more attention than this.
Your right. Building IL-336 between Macomb and Quincy was a stretch, and it doesn't need to connect to Peoria. It would be better to upgrade U.S 67 to Interstate standards between St. Louis and Monmouth (connect with I-74 via U.S 34) and leave it at that. Western Illinois needs some sort of north-south limited access highway, but I'm not sure the Peoria to Quincy corridor is the answer.
The only thing that would make both the IL-336 (and the IL-29 project for that matter) worth it at all is if both corridors were upgraded to Interstate standards and connected and signed as one Interstate route (such as I-37). Even then, I'm not sure if the traffic volumes would improve a lot.
You are all correct on this one. I just drove IL 29 last fall. Its really a high grade 2 lane now and they could add a passing lane anywhere as needed . It is actually LONGER to use it to Chicago from downtown Peoria than 74/55 and I am counting from IL 29 in downtown. Its a leftover ,really from the supplemental freeway days when 39 was routed away from Peoria . IDOT could reconstruct IL 9 and 116 for a fraction of the 4 lane cost and make both 3 lanes
This route to Macomb would save only 9 miles over 110 from Chicago . 34 Galesburg to 80 would save 12 and that would be great with a couple of passing lanes too near Kewanee. Also cut a couple of outmoded lights out of Kewanee.
Macomb really doesnt need a bypass. The road is good its just has like Kewanee unneeded traffic lights .
I would rather see like all of you 67 first
I doubt an Interstate would be useful in that vicinity. There just isn't the population mass to create the traffic levels that would make a full freeway-grade facility worthwhile. And it's too far from Chicago to be touted as a "Chicago bypass", which I-39 and I-74 already de-facto serve as.
I think 67 should be made 37 to 72 first and all the "to 37" signs along the rest of the route would have the desired effect. Based on the 39 history we could get that from AASTO
Finish the expressway to Macomb. Finish the 3 lanes north of Viola and get rid of the new stupid school bus stop at the 4 lane transition in Rock Island county
Quote from: froggie on February 04, 2015, 05:34:14 PM
I doubt an Interstate would be useful in that vicinity. There just isn't the population mass to create the traffic levels that would make a full freeway-grade facility worthwhile. And it's too far from Chicago to be touted as a "Chicago bypass", which I-39 and I-74 already de-facto serve as.
One of the reasons Western Illinois is suffering and losing population is because of lack of highway access. Western Illinois University is an hour and a half away from an Interstate highway. I'm sure they'd like some sort of highway. A north south Interstate in Western Illinois (either along U.S 67 or IL-336) would boost the area's economy.
Of course, if we really want to talk about projects downstate, the first thing IDOT ought to do is extend I-39 south to I-57. That would be more worthwhile then
anything in Western Illinois.
Froggie I agree IDOT did consider a freeway to Jerseyville because that has 10,000 per day but after the drop off is dramatic . IDOT is building this one well and it would be an easy upgrade. BUT every other project we mentioned should be first( I mean 2 or 3 lane improvements on those Peoria projects )
Back to Peoria . While there seems to be traffic to Chillocothe, the cost of extending 6 would be high through that terrain like 20 in the north . Its a good 4 lane and not a lot of lights . The largest factory in Illinois is on it Cats engine plant . I think Illinois sometimes just likes to pander to Caterpiller on the Peoria stuff
Quote from: 3467 on February 04, 2015, 05:41:51 PM
I think 67 should be made 37 to 72 first and all the "to 37" signs along the rest of the route would have the desired effect. Based on the 39 history we could get that from AASTO
Finish the expressway to Macomb. Finish the 3 lanes north of Viola and get rid of the new stupid school bus stop at the 4 lane transition in Rock Island county
So in other words, build U.S 67 to freeway between I-72 and Godfrey and sign it as I-37 and then build an expressway the rest of the way to Macomb?
So in other words, build U.S 67 to freeway between I-72 and Godfrey and sign it as I-37 and then build an expressway the rest of the way to Macomb?
Yes It was always an idea I had . I would like to see it 1-37 to Monmouth (or La Claire) but I think this is the start , Have you driven the new 4 lane sections? You can really see how upgradeable it is, I would ask for the designation to replace all of 255 to Missouri
First things first Lets get the expressway done first to Macomb Finish the improvements to 67 north of Monmouth -Make it a 3lane as IDOT originally proposed THEN go back and make 37 so even if there is more funding we are talking about 20 years from now
Quote from: 3467 on February 04, 2015, 08:12:08 PM
So in other words, build U.S 67 to freeway between I-72 and Godfrey and sign it as I-37 and then build an expressway the rest of the way to Macomb?
Yes It was always an idea I had . I would like to see it 1-37 to Monmouth (or La Claire) but I think this is the start , Have you driven the new 4 lane sections? You can really see how upgradeable it is, I would ask for the designation to replace all of 255 to Missouri
First things first Lets get the expressway done first to Macomb Finish the improvements to 67 north of Monmouth -Make it a 3lane as IDOT originally proposed THEN go back and make 37 so even if there is more funding we are talking about 20 years from now
I know the section between IL-255 and Delhi is fairly upgradable, as is the road from Jacksonville to Manchester. Do you know for a fact that Jerseyville bypass to Godfrey section will become freeway?
I know the section between IL-255 and Delhi is fairly upgradable, as is the road from Jacksonville to Manchester. Do you know for a fact that Jerseyville bypass to Godfrey section will become freeway?
It wont initially but in the EIS IDOT thought it should
20 years ago I pointedly asked the IDOT engineers when the Macomb/Jacksonville Feas study started if it would be easy to upgrade . I think I cited US 51 as an example. They told me they tried to avoid those situations -now this is 1995 or so .....Most others just wanted a 4 lane I wanted done right . In this case so far so good At the time the farmers wanted the road but wanted the access. In 20 years with cultured meat I don't see many farmers left .
BTW The Corridor we have here 29 had some issues that would prevent full freeway upgrade . Peoria Macomb is all new alignment and could be (though I think we agree it should be turned into an existing road improvement)
US 20 and US 30 could be But the rest of the corridors under study for 4 lane all have fatal upgrade flaws US51 as you have pointed out ....US 50 ....IL 127 I would really argues 20 and 30 do too because they cant be freeways in Iowa
Oh one last one 34 to Burlington another easy upgrade ex Monmouth Bypass and in Iowa too
Quote from: 3467 on February 04, 2015, 08:40:10 PM
20 years ago I pointedly asked the IDOT engineers when the Macomb/Jacksonville Feas study started if it would be easy to upgrade . I think I cited US 51 as an example. They told me they tried to avoid those situations -now this is 1995 or so .....Most others just wanted a 4 lane I wanted done right . In this case so far so good At the time the farmers wanted the road but wanted the access. In 20 years with cultured meat I don't see many farmers left .
BTW The Corridor we have here 29 had some issues that would prevent full freeway upgrade . Peoria Macomb is all new alignment and could be (though I think we agree it should be turned into an existing road improvement)
US 20 and US 30 could be But the rest of the corridors under study for 4 lane all have fatal upgrade flaws US51 as you have pointed out ....US 50 ....IL 127 I would really argues 20 and 30 do too because they cant be freeways in Iowa
Oh one last one 34 to Burlington another easy upgrade ex Monmouth Bypass and in Iowa too
I believe there were environmental concerns back in the 1970's that prompted major opposition to a freeway along IL-29 between I-180 and Peoria. Plus, the need is not really there in that corridor because you already have I-39 to the east. And unless you build the corridor as a full freeway, it is not worth it. So it's kind of a paradox........ I'd say scrap it and look towards improving highways in Western Illinois
IL-336 could easily be upgraded to a full freeway in the future, in fact, the very eastern section will be built as freeway, it'll change to an expressway west of Hanna City. I believe the Macomb bypass will be a full freeway too. That is why I was initially saying it may be worth it at this point to pursue finishing the IL-336 expressway and upgrade to freeway in the future. Again, I agree it's not really worth pursuing because of the traffic counts, but it may be cheaper than upgrading U.S 67, which will likely never be upgraded to interstate standards.
IMO, I-180 in IL should be decommissioned and renumbered as IL-29 to its northern terminus with I-80. The remaining segment from the stack interchange that crosses the Illinois River to Hennepin can be signed as IL-71. The existing 2-lane IL-29 from I-180 to US 6 can be given another SR number.
The IL 29 study, although taken to completion with a Record of Decision, is on the far back burner with the East Peoria Bypass being the primary planning project in the Peoria area right now. There is no crossing of the Illinois River between US 24 and IL 17, and the so called "Ring Road" would provide it, as well as completing the I-474-IL 6 loop around Peoria. The IL 29 study, in its infancy, also considered skipping across the river at Hennepin and connecting to I-39 via IL 71, and another alternative of 4-laning IL 116 or a close-by parallel route, between I-55 and Metamora. The Peoria to Chicago and Peoria Ring Road studies were once competitors; I recall reading some stories about Rep. LaHood's involvement in deciding which one got priority over a decade ago.
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on February 17, 2015, 06:28:57 PM
IMO, I-180 in IL should be decommissioned and renumbered as IL-29 to its northern terminus with I-80. The remaining segment from the stack interchange that crosses the Illinois River to Hennepin can be signed as IL-71. The existing 2-lane IL-29 from I-180 to US 6 can be given another SR number.
I agree with your statement 100%. I-180 is a pointless Interstate, it does not connect to anything, downgrade it to a state route.
Quote from: Rick Powell on February 17, 2015, 08:02:17 PM
The IL 29 study, although taken to completion with a Record of Decision, is on the far back burner with the East Peoria Bypass being the primary planning project in the Peoria area right now. There is no crossing of the Illinois River between US 24 and IL 17, and the so called "Ring Road" would provide it, as well as completing the I-474-IL 6 loop around Peoria. The IL 29 study, in its infancy, also considered skipping across the river at Hennepin and connecting to I-39 via IL 71, and another alternative of 4-laning IL 116 or a close-by parallel route, between I-55 and Metamora. The Peoria to Chicago and Peoria Ring Road studies were once competitors; I recall reading some stories about Rep. LaHood's involvement in deciding which one got priority over a decade ago.
Frankly, it's only worth building a four lane IL-29 IF it is built as a freeway (so as to connect IL-6 and I-180), but I don't believe IL-29 needs four lanes at all. You already have I-39 to the east, so another freeway/Interstate just west would be pointless, even an expressway would be a stretch.
This is an incredibly pointless project that needs to be scrapped ASAP. Even IL-336 is more worth time and effort than this. Focus on the ring road around Peoria.
The ring road has always been a district engineer priority -the problem is it has never been a public priority and that is why LaHood got involved last time . I think Dist 4s obsession with it means nothing is going to be done in Dist 4 . I really welcome Rick Powells insights on this . I have been on 29 recently and adding a passing lane would be a breeze and that's all that is needed ,I-180 could then be IL 29 . The same could be done on the even emptier Peoria-Macomb route. Adam maybe you want to make this the " do the Peoria routes make sense thread. I did the math 29 from downtown saves all of 4 miles off 74/55
http://www.nix336.org/ The opposition to 336 The IDOT responses were kind of interesting
This route was never pushed by Macomb or Peoria. Macomb was pushing better connections on existing routes that well made a lot more sense to me. I was at some Macomb chamber meetings and IDOT wouldn't go along with those instead Bushnell paid a lobbyist 3000 and got this study and then Bushnell hoping for an IL 9 4 lane got this thing. Right now I think its just Canton . Once again this thing will cost at least 8 million a mile because its all new alignment and has some freeway segments so at least 500 million . 24 could be 4 laned to route 9 and 9 could have a passing lane to 67 ...sporadic passing lanes could be added to more of 24 and IL 116 all for less than 100 million probably and I bet everyone would be happy . Any common sense @IDOT
The Peoria bypass
http://www.idot.illinois.gov/projects/Eastern-Bypass-Study
and the final Dist 4 project a Road that has actually been partially built US 34 Biggsville bypass is open
http://www.idot.illinois.gov/projects/US-34-Project
Quote from: 3467 on February 17, 2015, 09:06:40 PM
The ring road has always been a district engineer priority -the problem is it has never been a public priority and that is why LaHood got involved last time . I think Dist 4s obsession with it means nothing is going to be done in Dist 4 . I really welcome Rick Powells insights on this . I have been on 29 recently and adding a passing lane would be a breeze and that's all that is needed ,I-180 could then be IL 29 . The same could be done on the even emptier Peoria-Macomb route. Adam maybe you want to make this the " do the Peoria routes make sense thread. I did the math 29 from downtown saves all of 4 miles off 74/55
I agree 29 does not need any additional work, I thought I made that clear? And I think IL-336 is incredibly stupid, even the existing segment between Quincy and Macomb was not necessary. But the point I was making is IL-29 is even stupider, you don't need a four lane highway when you already have I-39 east of there. Even adding a passing lane would be a stretch.
Think of how much progress could have been made on U.S 67 with all the money spent on studies/construction on the IL-29/336 corridor.
Quote from: adamlanfort on February 17, 2015, 10:55:14 PM
Think of how much progress could have been made on U.S 67 with all the money spent on studies/construction on the IL-29/336 corridor.
The cost of a study is but a small fraction of actual construction. I have worked on at least 4 medium-to-mega-projects that got scrapped, and the combined money spent on the planning studies for these might've been enough to build 5 miles of freeway.
IMO, an alternate to 4-laning IL-29 to IL-180 might be to upgrade US 24 from Washington to I-55 at Chenoa to make it easier for Peoria traffic to connect to I-39 and I-55. Using 24 to get to I-55 is also 17 miles shorter than taking I-74 to I-55 at Normal, and an upgraded US 24 expressway/freeway from Peoria to I-39 and I-55 would be quicker. Though this is getting into fictional territory.
Those were all looked at those corridors in Peoria Chicago and were shot down by the counties leaving only those along 29 saying well OK ...I just checked the Peoria-Chicago study The shortest route only saved 8 miles over the interstate 74-55 route and half the Chicago trips were using it now.
I enjoy Rick Powells insights.
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on February 19, 2015, 10:19:07 PM
IMO, an alternate to 4-laning IL-29 to IL-180 might be to upgrade US 24 from Washington to I-55 at Chenoa to make it easier for Peoria traffic to connect to I-39 and I-55. Using 24 to get to I-55 is also 17 miles shorter than taking I-74 to I-55 at Normal, and an upgraded US 24 expressway/freeway from Peoria to I-39 and I-55 would be quicker. Though this is getting into fictional territory.
Quote from: 3467 on February 19, 2015, 10:31:48 PM
Those were all looked at those corridors in Peoria Chicago and were shot down by the counties leaving only those along 29 saying well OK ...I just checked the Peoria-Chicago study The shortest route only saved 8 miles over the interstate 74-55 route and half the Chicago trips were using it now.
I enjoy Rick Powells insights.
I agree. I enjoy Rick Powell's insights too.
I actually have family who lives in Eureka, so I drive that stretch (U.S 24 from I-39 to Eureka and sometimes to Washington) a couple times a year. It does not need a full blown expressway, but it could defiantly use some passing lanes like 3647 suggests for other routes. They did study this for the Peoria to Chicago highway, but it would require bypassing Eureka, El Paso, Gridley, etc (there is no way you could build four lanes through those towns).
And IDOT could do a lot of Projects like passing lanes on 24 if they would get over this freeway or near freeway or nothing attitude they seem to have!
Quote from: 3467 on February 19, 2015, 10:55:38 PM
And IDOT could do a lot of Projects like passing lanes on 24 if they would get over this freeway or near freeway or nothing attitude they seem to have!
Agreed. I have changed my mind and now concede that U.S 20 doesn't need four lanes, a Galena bypass and passing lanes would be fine.
I really think Wisconsin and Missouri are on to something but Illinois being a richer state with the world class city bristles at doing anything like its neighbors -well it needs to get off its high horse Both those states have better run DOTS under both parties .
Iowa seemed to be going in a similar direction but they are a joke too but in a different way. They main arterials but 66% of their road mileage is gravel. They are the anti-Illinois too far the other way
Quote from: 3467 on February 19, 2015, 11:10:39 PM
I really think Wisconsin and Missouri are on to something but Illinois being a richer state with the world class city bristles at doing anything like its neighbors -well it needs to get off its high horse Both those states have better run DOTS under both parties .
Iowa seemed to be going in a similar direction but they are a joke too but in a different way. They main arterials but 66% of their road mileage is gravel. They are the anti-Illinois too far the other way
Wisconsin builds more freeways and expressways than Illinois, even in some areas that really don't need it. Missouri DOT is in worse shape financially than Illinois.
Illinois should be an economic powerhouse, but corruption and Chicago politics is dragging the state down.
Mo DOT is in really bad shape but that forced them to come up with innovative ideas IDOT hasn't It just gives up
Quote from: 3467 on February 19, 2015, 11:35:52 PM
Mo DOT is in really bad shape but that forced them to come up with innovative ideas IDOT hasn't It just gives up
What kind of innovative ideas is MoDOT thinking of? Last I heard, they are creating a program where they will only fund critical corridors for maintenance.
Quote from: 3467 on February 19, 2015, 11:35:52 PM
Mo DOT is in really bad shape but that forced them to come up with innovative ideas IDOT hasn't It just gives up
Too true. IDOT feels like they just give up. I do wish they were more like ISTHA with innovative thinking. :-(
Brandon is right Like Rick Powell said they just scrap them Well maybe something is needed but not a mega project That is how the EIS process should be done
MoDOT came up with a very interesting 3 lane design I will try to link later. They cam up with innovative funding for US 61 and US 36
http://www.pjstar.com/article/20150221/NEWS/150229863/13313/SPORTS
In a series of stories that featured the revenue problems that are a big topic here from 70 in Mo to other sources of funding The Peoria paper included the local wish list -the Eastern Bypass is here but 29 and 336 are not . If IDOT didn't really want to build those they should rush in and offer some passing lanes but they just are not that smart
Quote from: 3467 on February 22, 2015, 10:43:21 PM
http://www.pjstar.com/article/20150221/NEWS/150229863/13313/SPORTS
In a series of stories that featured the revenue problems that are a big topic here from 70 in Mo to other sources of funding The Peoria paper included the local wish list -the Eastern Bypass is here but 29 and 336 are not . If IDOT didn't really want to build those they should rush in and offer some passing lanes but they just are not that smart
Good, both IL-336 and IL-29 should be scrapped and the priorities should be shifted elsewhere.