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Non-Road Boards => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Brian556 on February 13, 2015, 10:19:35 AM

Title: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Brian556 on February 13, 2015, 10:19:35 AM
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Driver-Blames-GPS-for-Ending-Up-on-Railroad-Tracks-291786731.html?partner=nbcnews?par=nbcnews&site=nbcnews.com&cm_ven=nbcnews&cm_cat=Article (http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Driver-Blames-GPS-for-Ending-Up-on-Railroad-Tracks-291786731.html?partner=nbcnews?par=nbcnews&site=nbcnews.com&cm_ven=nbcnews&cm_cat=Article)
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Zeffy on February 13, 2015, 10:50:54 AM
The average person who has an ounce of common sense would notice they are on railroad tracks and not the road if they bothered to pay attention to their surroundings. I mean, come on now, did the invention of GPS make motorists collectively dumber?
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2015, 11:05:49 AM
Vehicles on railroad tracks have the right of way over vehicles on the road.  I give this person credit for taking advantage of that.  Shame she didn't get the "Railtracks Driving Package" upgrade though on that vehicle.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: roadman65 on February 13, 2015, 11:25:40 AM
I supposed next someone will blame the GPS for leading them the wrong way on a one way street.  Or better yet when a road is closed for construction, someone will drive down it because "their GPS said to drive on it."
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: kkt on February 13, 2015, 11:38:02 AM
GPS has become the dog that ate people's homework or the post office that lost their rent check.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: tchafe1978 on February 13, 2015, 11:53:56 AM
Reminds me of this that happened in Milwaukee back in November:

http://www.wisn.com/news/semi-plows-into-lake-park-damaging-historic-bridge/29670688
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: PHLBOS on February 13, 2015, 12:26:44 PM
It's been said many times before; there's no cure for stupid.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2015, 12:39:49 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 13, 2015, 11:25:40 AM
I supposed next someone will blame the GPS for leading them the wrong way on a one way street.  Or better yet when a road is closed for construction, someone will drive down it because "their GPS said to drive on it."

Then read #8 of this regarding the construction excuse: http://theweek.com/articles/464674/8-drivers-blindly-followed-gps-into-disaster

What most of the stories in the links have in common:  The drivers admit to ignoring the actual conditions because the GPS told them to do something, and the police, who are accustomed to seeing accidents of all types, are amazed that these types of accidents actually happen.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 13, 2015, 12:41:31 PM
Do GPS really route someone down a one way street though? I've used various GPS devices and I've never had ONE direct me down a one -way street.

What kind of dollar store GPSes are these people buying?
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Dr Frankenstein on February 13, 2015, 01:06:18 PM
My hometown recently made some streets one-way and flipped some others. If your GPS data is obsolete, then it'll give you conflicting instructions. Very, very few people keep their GPS up to date (I blame the manufacturers charging for the updates for that).

As for the railroad track incident, I'd blame alcohol (and the stupidity of driving drunk) for that, not the GPS unit.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 13, 2015, 01:07:30 PM
I encounter that issue when I drive through any area in NC with new I-74/73 construction. At that point though, I'm smart enough to know my route enough that I can adjust. Critical thinking skills are a great thing to have.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: roadman65 on February 13, 2015, 01:08:54 PM
GPSes always tell you to not rely on them completely as roads do often close, change alignments, or something else comes up locally that prevents roads selected to not be usable. 

Bottom line is you have to use common sense!  Heading on a RR track is plain stupid.  I mentioned the one way street as that is just as silly as that same driver driving the wrong way down the one way street scenario.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: vtk on February 13, 2015, 01:10:03 PM
It depends on where the data comes from. A cheap source of road data is the Census Bureau, but their dataset doesn't contain info about one way streets, so that would have to come from somewhere else, and that supplementary source may be incomplete.

Or the data may just be outdated. Onewayness can change.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: roadman65 on February 13, 2015, 01:14:32 PM
Yes one day a town or city can change a two way street to a one way.  It may take the GPS a while before their database gets the info to display to drivers.

Also that left turn prohibition added to an intersection can also get in the way as well.  For years you can turn left into a street and the next day a NO LEFT TURN sign could be added.  Or even a divider added to a median can also be added to prevent a left turn that was able to made for years, that the GPS may have always been giving directions there for it, now is blocked off.

Things change and that is why the disclosure is there.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Roadrunner75 on February 13, 2015, 01:19:00 PM
This has proven to be a popular spot for people ending up on railroad tracks, drunk or not:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.713537,-74.040942&spn=0.000004,0.002626&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.713501,-74.041543&panoid=wbVgn0H7zKI0wGHdphu4hQ&cbp=12,315.01,,0,3.31 (https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.713537,-74.040942&spn=0.000004,0.002626&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.713501,-74.041543&panoid=wbVgn0H7zKI0wGHdphu4hQ&cbp=12,315.01,,0,3.31)

Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 13, 2015, 01:28:25 PM
Yeah, GPSes are good to have for general directions but relying on them verbatim is always a bad call. They're best for two things: interstate highway travel and intracity travel in a place that you've never been before. In both cases, you need to read signs because things change. GPSes will never replace being able to read a sign.

But even still, one way alignments don't change THAT often. I don't even buy high end GPSes and I've still never had that happen.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Henry on February 13, 2015, 01:34:54 PM
Another way to get your license revoked for life...
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Brian556 on February 13, 2015, 01:51:09 PM
Quote from Roadrunner 65:

QuoteThis has proven to be a popular spot for people ending up on railroad tracks, drunk or not:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.713537,-74.040942&spn=0.000004,0.002626&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.713501,-74.041543&panoid=wbVgn0H7zKI0wGHdphu4hQ&cbp=12,315.01,,0,3.31

I can't figure out why they have concrete slabs like a street a short distance down the tracks. this is probably contributing to the problem. Also, the railroad ahead sign is mis-used and makes no sense where it is.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: kkt on February 13, 2015, 02:09:51 PM
Are commercial trucks required to be inspected every year?  Should the inspection be required to include a current truck GPS?
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 13, 2015, 02:11:46 PM
Do trucks come equipped with a GPS? A friend of mine is a truck driver and he uses his own personal GPS in his truck.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: kkt on February 13, 2015, 02:20:03 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 13, 2015, 02:11:46 PM
Do trucks come equipped with a GPS? A friend of mine is a truck driver and he uses his own personal GPS in his truck.

Maybe they should, so that drivers wouldn't be tempted to use personal GPSs that weren't made for trucks?
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: jeffandnicole on February 13, 2015, 02:38:49 PM
Quote from: Henry on February 13, 2015, 01:34:54 PM
Another way to get your license revoked for life...

Why? 

Quote from: kkt on February 13, 2015, 02:09:51 PM
Are commercial trucks required to be inspected every year?  Should the inspection be required to include a current truck GPS?


It depends on the state.  GPSs should always be optional equipment and shouldn't be required.  Most truck drivers know what they're doing and where they are going.  For the most part, equipment made for cars don't work well in trucks, regardless of what it is.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: slorydn1 on February 13, 2015, 04:36:10 PM
In my county we have had two instances of people driving their cars down a dead end road and straight off a boat ramp into the river because their GPS routed them that way.

In one of the two instances, there were signs stating dead end road, then the pavement ends several hundred feet before the water and still no thought sent to the brain that something isn't quite right.....

After the first one happened I punched up the location that the driver said he wanted to get to on my early generation Garmin Quest (way back in the day) and I'll be darned if it didn't say to go the way he did.

Still, It all goes back to childhood. Those of us that got smoked worse for saying "So and so made me do it" when caught with our hands in the cookie jar learned personal responsibility and those who didn't blame everything on someone/something else.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Mr. Matté on February 13, 2015, 04:42:47 PM
In real life, only one person (maybe two, the driver and her attorney) should be blaming the GPS device for driving on the tracks, but to my amazement, about 21 out of 22 posters here missing the real reason.

Dr. Frankenstein so far is the only one correctly placing the blame, on the drunk driver.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: slorydn1 on February 13, 2015, 05:29:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on February 13, 2015, 04:42:47 PM
In real life, only one person (maybe two, the driver and her attorney) should be blaming the GPS device for driving on the tracks, but to my amazement, about 21 out of 22 posters here missing the real reason.

Dr. Frankenstein so far is the only one correctly placing the blame, on the drunk driver.

No, I didn't miss the real reason why this particular incident occurred, I figured the part about her being impaired was so self evident it didn't need rehashing.

I can't speak for the rest of the posters, but I was only relating my experiences with other people blaming the GPS for their failure to drive the car instead of allowing a computer to do it for them.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: kkt on February 13, 2015, 06:37:05 PM
Quote from: Mr. Matté on February 13, 2015, 04:42:47 PM
In real life, only one person (maybe two, the driver and her attorney) should be blaming the GPS device for driving on the tracks, but to my amazement, about 21 out of 22 posters here missing the real reason.

Dr. Frankenstein so far is the only one correctly placing the blame, on the drunk driver.

Obviously driving while impaired is bad and getting incorrect advice from a GPS does not in any way let a drunk driver off the hook.  Or even a sober driver.

But there seem to be a lot of accidents that would be avoided by truck drivers, especially, getting good advice because they were using appropriate GPSs for their vehicles.

Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 13, 2015, 07:09:28 PM
This is one reason why self-driving cars would potentially be scary. If they are relying on GPSes then we could end up with this happening a lot.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: vdeane on February 13, 2015, 08:18:56 PM
Perhaps there should be a law requiring GPS data updates to be FREE and for the devices to have some form of automatic check for updates, perhaps with an automatic bricking of the device if the data gets too old.  Also make it a ticketable offense to be operating a truck with a car GPS.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: NE2 on February 13, 2015, 08:26:14 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on February 13, 2015, 07:09:28 PM
This is one reason why self-driving cars would potentially be scary. If they are relying on GPSes then we could end up with this happening a lot.
Obviously a self-driving car would primarily take its cues from real-world conditions. The problem is when those are confusing (e.g. Roadrunner's example if it didn't have the do not enters).

Quote from: Roadrunner75 on February 13, 2015, 01:19:00 PM
This has proven to be a popular spot for people ending up on railroad tracks, drunk or not:
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.713537,-74.040942&spn=0.000004,0.002626&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.713501,-74.041543&panoid=wbVgn0H7zKI0wGHdphu4hQ&cbp=12,315.01,,0,3.31 (https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.713537,-74.040942&spn=0.000004,0.002626&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.713501,-74.041543&panoid=wbVgn0H7zKI0wGHdphu4hQ&cbp=12,315.01,,0,3.31)
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Billy F 1988 on February 13, 2015, 08:54:57 PM
Why someone would blame the computer (or onboard GPS for that matter) is beyond me. It was her fault that she drove the car on to the tracks where it should never have been to begin with and she ought to be thankful the police called BNSF ahead of time because had there been a BNSF train rolling that night and found her car on the tracks, she'd been toast. More importantly, she would have been better off not drinking alcohol to begin with! So, if you think the railroad is to blame or the GPS, or some other piece of junk, chances are, it's perhaps YOU! And for our buzzed out Camry driver, that's what she gets! Snag the license away, and that will take one less stupid drunk off the road.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: ZLoth on February 14, 2015, 03:10:09 AM
The root cause exists someplace between the car seat and the steering wheel, but I can't figure out where.  :-P
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: NE2 on February 14, 2015, 03:47:37 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on February 14, 2015, 03:10:09 AM
The root cause exists someplace between the car seat and the steering wheel, but I can't figure out where.  :-P
PEBSAW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_error)
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: vdeane on February 14, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.
Coffee is NOT normally nearly as hot as McDonalds serves it.  I'm pretty sure the temperature of their coffee was even deemed unfit for human consumption.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: US81 on February 14, 2015, 01:58:32 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.

Hot beverages are usually about 140F, McDonald's sells their coffee at 190F. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Brian556 on February 14, 2015, 02:05:43 PM
quote from Roadman 65:
QuoteIt reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.

I actually think that lawsuit was legit and reasonable. It is very easy to spill coffee. Happens all the time. There is no need for them to serve it at such a high temperature.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: 6a on February 14, 2015, 02:07:36 PM

Quote from: US81 on February 14, 2015, 01:58:32 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.

Hot beverages are usually about 140F, McDonald's sells their coffee at 190F. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
The coffee machines we run are set at 202F.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: slorydn1 on February 14, 2015, 02:09:07 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 14, 2015, 01:49:30 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.
Coffee is NOT normally nearly as hot as McDonalds serves it.  I'm pretty sure the temperature of their coffee was even deemed unfit for human consumption.


Oh I don't know, I consumed plenty of it before and after that lawsuit. I consumed it just fine before she spilled hers and the last time I looked in the mirror I'm human. For years afterwards, thanks to the ridiculous monetary award she got for her own screw up I couldn't get anything but luke warm, barely drinkable coffee from a McD's. It has gotten somewhat better the last few years, maybe they have begun to crank the heat back up again?
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: kkt on February 14, 2015, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.

Learn something about the case.  The coffee was served at over 200 F., much hotter than coffee should be served or was served at other restaurants.  The woman was not in the driver's seat, she was a passenger and the car was stationary.  She suffered 3rd degree burns over most of her seat.  Does spilled coffee normally do that?  I don't think so.  She asked McDonald's to cover her hospital bills and nothing else.  McDonald's refused, so lawyers were called in.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 02:27:06 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 14, 2015, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.

Learn something about the case.  The coffee was served at over 200 F., much hotter than coffee should be served or was served at other restaurants.  The woman was not in the driver's seat, she was a passenger and the car was stationary.  She suffered 3rd degree burns over most of her seat.  Does spilled coffee normally do that?  I don't think so.  She asked McDonald's to cover her hospital bills and nothing else.  McDonald's refused, so lawyers were called in.

The point is, whether the coffee was 110 degrees or 200 degrees you still exercise caution!  Even when you make mistakes, you accept them and do not blame other people for them.  Heck I burned myself  a few times with hot cheese dripping off a slice of pizza, you did not see me get a lawyer and sue the pizza place that cooked the pizza.  It was my fault or an act of nature that it happened.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Pete from Boston on February 14, 2015, 02:50:33 PM
There's nothing to be gained from brewing coffee that hot except the illusion that your coffee is fresher because it's undrinkably hot.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: ZLoth on February 14, 2015, 03:47:48 PM
And people wonder why I don't drink coffee. But, then again, I was stuck in the era of badly made coffee that was often compared with motor oil.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: The Nature Boy on February 14, 2015, 09:50:03 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on February 14, 2015, 02:50:33 PM
There's nothing to be gained from brewing coffee that hot except the illusion that your coffee is fresher because it's undrinkably hot.

I agree, I like my coffee to be mildly hot. Even when I get my coffee from Dunkin, I give it a few seconds to cool down before I start to drink it.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: kkt on February 15, 2015, 03:13:34 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 02:27:06 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 14, 2015, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.

Learn something about the case.  The coffee was served at over 200 F., much hotter than coffee should be served or was served at other restaurants.  The woman was not in the driver's seat, she was a passenger and the car was stationary.  She suffered 3rd degree burns over most of her seat.  Does spilled coffee normally do that?  I don't think so.  She asked McDonald's to cover her hospital bills and nothing else.  McDonald's refused, so lawyers were called in.

The point is, whether the coffee was 110 degrees or 200 degrees you still exercise caution!  Even when you make mistakes, you accept them and do not blame other people for them.  Heck I burned myself  a few times with hot cheese dripping off a slice of pizza, you did not see me get a lawyer and sue the pizza place that cooked the pizza.  It was my fault or an act of nature that it happened.

Did you have to go to the hospital and need reconstructive surgery?
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: NE2 on February 15, 2015, 03:53:44 AM
Whoa, I'm proud of you guys.

Anyway, the point is that had the coffee been normal temperature, her actions might have not been the smartest, but she would merely have some pain, not fused labia. I'm unable to think of a proper analogy to the GPS case; perhaps someone can make something from the GPS telling him they're an abandoned railroad and he should drive on it.
Title: Re: Drunk Driver Drives on RR Tracks, Blames GPS
Post by: Pete from Boston on February 15, 2015, 10:12:15 AM

Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 02:27:06 PM
Quote from: kkt on February 14, 2015, 02:21:04 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 14, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
It reminds me of the old lady who sued McDonalds for getting burned with Hot Coffee.  It was not for the temp of the coffee that caused her burn, but the entity between the seat and the steering wheel did not exercise caution when handling uhhh a beverage that is always hot.

Learn something about the case.  The coffee was served at over 200 F., much hotter than coffee should be served or was served at other restaurants.  The woman was not in the driver's seat, she was a passenger and the car was stationary.  She suffered 3rd degree burns over most of her seat.  Does spilled coffee normally do that?  I don't think so.  She asked McDonald's to cover her hospital bills and nothing else.  McDonald's refused, so lawyers were called in.

The point is, whether the coffee was 110 degrees or 200 degrees you still exercise caution!  Even when you make mistakes, you accept them and do not blame other people for them.  Heck I burned myself  a few times with hot cheese dripping off a slice of pizza, you did not see me get a lawyer and sue the pizza place that cooked the pizza.  It was my fault or an act of nature that it happened.

I'm going to use that "Act of Nature" line next time I spill something on myself.  I'll give Fate the finger for good measure.