(Wasn't sure if this had been covered before, but oh well here goes anyway)
After seeing the latest part of the I-11 thread referring to Las Vegas and Phoenix being the 2 largest US cities without a connecting interstate, I wondered. What would be the next 2 largest (assuming I-11 gets built, and I-22 not too far from done Memphis-Birmingham) US cities without that connection?
Any rational possibilities left (preferably between 2 cities that probably could benefit from having a legitimate interstate connection) ?
Does distance matter?
New York City and Los Angeles don't have a connecting Interstate.
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2015, 09:53:51 AM
Does distance matter?
New York City and Los Angeles don't have a connecting Interstate.
...they have an all-Interstate route connecting them, smartarse.
You can't obviously sort city pairs by population (do you add the two? if so, NYC-Podunk beats anything else; take the smaller one? this might work, but there may be problems; geometric mean? this would place a connection between 10M and 1M cities above two with 1.1M, but might have other problems). Austin-Houston (mean 2.60M) is roughly comparable to Las Vegas-Phoenix (mean 2.62M). If we want to come up with actual rankings, we need to figure out what figure to use. (Obviously we want to use urbanized area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas) populations, not just inside city limits, to prevent this from being complete trivia.)
PS: NYC-Philadelphia :bigass:
Quote from: NE2 on February 22, 2015, 10:29:50 AM
PS: NYC-Philadelphia :bigass:
So, your answer to the thread topic is Phoenix and Las Vegas?
Quote...they have an all-Interstate route connecting them, smartarse.
So do Phoenix and Las Vegas- > I-15 to I-40 to I-17
Seriously though, before somebody says Denver to Salt Lake, I-25 to I-80 is about six miles longer than I-70 to US-6 to I-15 (where a "direct" interstate would run).
What about Boise to Reno? Boise to Spokane?
I would say Phoenix-San Diego, but I'm sure many people would consider I-10 -> I-8 or I-10 -> I-215 -> I-15 to be close enough.
Also, Fresno-anywhere could qualify, but probably not as the largest pair.
Tampa and Jacksonville in Florida do not have it. The former is the third largest city in Florida and the latter is the largest in the state.
Now I-4 and I-95 do count, but many avoid it going between the two because of Orlando's traffic nightmare, and would rather go as far as to take I-10 and I-75 to Lake City or put up with Waldo and Starke's money hungry cops then deal with I-4 in Orlando.
I would actually say if we are dealing with direct, and not meandering routes, the following, in my mind, would qualify...
Portland, OR and Spokane, WA (US 395 doesn't count, it isn't an Interstate)
Reno, NV/Carson City, NV and Las Vegas, NV
Green Bay, WI and Sault Set Marie, MI
Bakersfield, CA and everywhere
Columbus - Detroit
Hartford-Providence
Tulsa-Wichita and Oklahoma City-Denver spring to mind.
Phoenix-Mesa, connected by US 60 and Loop 202. Mesa, a suburb of Phoenix, is larger in population than many more famous cities such as Atlanta or Miami.
Austin - Houston
LV-Phoenix isn't direct. I'd have to say I-15 to I-40 to I-17 is a horribly roundabout way to travel between the two. Saying NYC-LA isn't as there isn't a single non-freeway route that cuts time off the trip in any appreciable way. Or even a part of it.
Honestly, I'd think the next culprits are going to be routes such as: Austin-Houston (as mentioned by ski-man, which has a very well-done expressway/freeway option). RGV area to Houston or San Antonio as well. You could argue Orlando-Miami uses the Florida's Turnpike, though functionally the same.
Buffalo-Washington DC or Buffalo-Baltimore are underserved by US219 not being finished to a decent junction point for those points. Both Rochester and Syracuse have decent routes (or future routes) to handle traffic to and from the mid-atlantic metro areas.
Toledo-Fort Wayne is getting full freeway (only the one light at the I-469 holds up the full-freeway route). IN-25 will continue Fort Wayne through to Lafayette. US322 limits Harrisburg-Erie traffic but is the better route than the turnpike (cheaper, too).
Pittsburgh-Scranton, sticking with Pennsylvania, is best done with PA-28, but requires two-lane from Kittaning to I-80 to handle the traffic flow. Scranton-Erie also has issues as either NY-17/I-86 or just sticking to US-6 is the best route than I-81-to-I-80-to-I-79.
Wheenling (WV) to any other city in West Virginia is underserved and forced to travel through either PA, OH, or MD to access Morgantown, Martinsburg, Charleston, Huntington, or Parkersburg via freeway. How Wheeling didn't get an Appalachian Highway corridor on US250 to help connect it to the rest of the state better (given Robert Byrd was the big backer of that endeavor) is odd.
Memphis-Indianapolis would be I-55 to I-57 to I-70, though I-69 will cut down that once it's finished completely. Memphis-Houston will be much better served by I-69 than the alternate freeway route of I-55 to I-10.
Denver-Dallas, though, may be the biggest cities not directly served by a direct freeway route. I-70 to I-235 to I-35 is a bit long compared to the non-freeway route of either I-40 to US287 or I-25 to US 87 to US 287.
I've driven US287 several times. There is a lot of traffic on a two-lane road. I know sometimes mapping software recommends the all-freeway routing through Wichita, but it is a bit ridiculous. Enough people have figured out that US 287 is a much better route for time, even with the perceived slow down of the two-lane aspect.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 22, 2015, 02:01:58 PM
Tampa and Jacksonville in Florida do not have it. The former is the third largest city in Florida and the latter is the largest in the state.
Now I-4 and I-95 do count, but many avoid it going between the two because of Orlando's traffic nightmare, and would rather go as far as to take I-10 and I-75 to Lake City or put up with Waldo and Starke's money hungry cops then deal with I-4 in Orlando.
Waldo's police department has recently been disbanded over the fraud there
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/26680063/2014/10/01/speed-ticket-quotas-led-to-demise-of-waldo-police-department
Fresno to Bakersfield. These Cities depend more on CA-99.
Modesto to Fresno Need CA-99 more.
Portland-Las Vegas
For rankings, I propose this metric: p1p2e^(-d/D). The variables p1, p2, and little d are obviously metro populations and distance between them. Big D is a constant, let's say 500 miles – about a good day's drive for a typical driver. Let distance be measured along the approximate non existent Interstate connection.
Quote from: UCFKnights on February 22, 2015, 11:41:43 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 22, 2015, 02:01:58 PM
Tampa and Jacksonville in Florida do not have it. The former is the third largest city in Florida and the latter is the largest in the state.
Now I-4 and I-95 do count, but many avoid it going between the two because of Orlando's traffic nightmare, and would rather go as far as to take I-10 and I-75 to Lake City or put up with Waldo and Starke's money hungry cops then deal with I-4 in Orlando.
Waldo's police department has recently been disbanded over the fraud there
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/26680063/2014/10/01/speed-ticket-quotas-led-to-demise-of-waldo-police-department
Your missing the point, people were doing it regardless over decades of time. My point was that I-4 Orlando traffic was far worse then the police in two cities in many drivers minds.
Quote from: NE2 on February 22, 2015, 10:29:50 AM
Quote from: 1 on February 22, 2015, 09:53:51 AM
Does distance matter?
New York City and Los Angeles don't have a connecting Interstate.
...they have an all-Interstate route connecting them, smartarse.
You can't obviously sort city pairs by population (do you add the two? if so, NYC-Podunk beats anything else; take the smaller one? this might work, but there may be problems; geometric mean? this would place a connection between 10M and 1M cities above two with 1.1M, but might have other problems). Austin-Houston (mean 2.60M) is roughly comparable to Las Vegas-Phoenix (mean 2.62M). If we want to come up with actual rankings, we need to figure out what figure to use. (Obviously we want to use urbanized area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas) populations, not just inside city limits, to prevent this from being complete trivia.)
PS: NYC-Philadelphia :bigass:
Using that rationale, you CAN get from Phoenix to Vegas via interstate
New York City & Fresno
Quote from: vtk on February 23, 2015, 11:06:17 AM
For rankings, I propose this metric: p1p2e^(-d/D). The variables p1, p2, and little d are obviously metro populations and distance between them. Big D is a constant, let's say 500 miles – about a good day's drive for a typical driver. Let distance be measured along the approximate non existent Interstate connection.
So using this formula, Phoenix-Las Vegas would be 4.72
p1=4.193
p2=1.951 (I decided to use millions of people rather than people to avoid incredibly large numbers. If you were to use the actual population, the answer would be the same *10^12)
d=275 miles (give or take)
This seems like an interesting measure, but I feel like existing interstate connections should be taken into account. For example, Phoenix to San Diego would probably generate a large number given their sizes and relatively small distance apart, but a hypothetical interstate connection along AZ 85 would only shave about 50 miles off of the shortest all-interstate route.
What if we use your metric, but instead of making Big D a constant, let it be the shortest existing interstate mileage between the cities?
Quote from: UCFKnights on February 22, 2015, 11:41:43 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 22, 2015, 02:01:58 PM
Tampa and Jacksonville in Florida do not have it. The former is the third largest city in Florida and the latter is the largest in the state.
Now I-4 and I-95 do count, but many avoid it going between the two because of Orlando's traffic nightmare, and would rather go as far as to take I-10 and I-75 to Lake City or put up with Waldo and Starke's money hungry cops then deal with I-4 in Orlando.
Waldo's police department has recently been disbanded over the fraud there
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/story/26680063/2014/10/01/speed-ticket-quotas-led-to-demise-of-waldo-police-department
Wow. At least Waldo had the sense not to follow New Rome, thus avoiding living up to the real life example of "Where's Waldo?"
Denver-Salt Lake City
Denver-Oklahoma City
Denver-Dallas
(Notice a trend?)
Quote from: Henry on February 23, 2015, 12:52:41 PM
Denver-Salt Lake City
Denver-Oklahoma City
Denver-Dallas
(Notice a trend?)
Yes, but not only in this post: you reply without reading the thread.
Quote from: corco on February 22, 2015, 01:37:33 PM
Seriously though, before somebody says Denver to Salt Lake, I-25 to I-80 is about six miles longer than I-70 to US-6 to I-15 (where a "direct" interstate would run).
I calculated geometric mean and vtk's value for most pairs mentioned in this thread using 2010 urban area populations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas). Note that NYC-Philly is not a real answer; 95-195-295-76 is close enough. Jax-Tampa is also debatable; going via Orlando adds only 20 miles. And note that Brownsville excludes the Mexican side of the border (as does San Diego).
The order using geometric mean is:
Dallas Denver
Phoenix San Diego
Miami Orlando
Los Angeles Fresno
Phoenix Las Vegas
Houston Austin
Las Vegas Portland
Detroit Indianapolis
Houston Memphis
Detroit Columbus
Washington Buffalo
Tampa Jacksonville
San Francisco Fresno
Denver OKC
Las Vegas Reno
Providence Hartford
Houston Brownsville
Memphis Birmingham
Portland Spokane
Pittsburgh Scranton
San Antonio Brownsville
Tulsa Wichita
Reno Spokane
Reno Boise
and using vtk's value is:
Phoenix San Diego
Miami Orlando
Los Angeles Fresno
Houston Austin
Phoenix Las Vegas
Detroit Columbus
Detroit Indianapolis
Dallas Denver
Washington Buffalo
Tampa Jacksonville
Houston Memphis
San Francisco Fresno
Las Vegas Portland
Providence Hartford
Denver OKC
Las Vegas Reno
Houston Brownsville
Memphis Birmingham
Pittsburgh Scranton
Portland Spokane
San Antonio Brownsville
Tulsa Wichita
Reno Boise
Reno Spokane
http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EB6bdnNKz49vB1XrKlk7VaIxju5QMKZyBZZhL3I6fs0/edit?usp=sharing for the full details.
Quote from: Sykotyk on February 22, 2015, 11:08:43 PM
Toledo-Fort Wayne is getting full freeway (only the one light at the I-469 holds up the full-freeway route).
More than just that one traffic light - there's quite a bit of US-24 that is expressway, not freeway.
Quote from: NE2 on February 23, 2015, 01:40:09 PM
Reno Boise
Reno Spokane
If it weren't for Oregon's ridiculous speed limits, these
wouldn't be worth the build, amirite? :bigass:
Quote from: pianocello on February 23, 2015, 11:27:11 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 23, 2015, 11:06:17 AM
For rankings, I propose this metric: p1p2e^(-d/D). The variables p1, p2, and little d are obviously metro populations and distance between them. Big D is a constant, let's say 500 miles – about a good day's drive for a typical driver. Let distance be measured along the approximate non existent Interstate connection.
What if we use your metric, but instead of making Big D a constant, let it be the shortest existing interstate mileage between the cities?
The factor e^(-d/D) is the distance component of traffic demand. (I don't know if the pros use a formula like this, but to me it makes more sense than 1/d^2 for a few reasons.) Making the change you suggest, we would lose that. We would gain consideration of existing Interstates, but it wouldn't have a very strong effect on the number.
So here's a new formula that keeps my distance factor, but also considerably weakens pairs that are served by reasonable existing routes:
p1 * p2 * (1 — d1 / d0) * e ^ (-d1 / D)
Variables p1, p2, and big D are the same as before. Using population in millions is probably a good idea. Little d0 is the length of the existing freeway route (use an arbitrarily large figure if no existing all-freeway route exists) and little d1 is the length of the hypothetical direct new Interstate connection.
I'd be interested to see how some pairs involving Alaska would score relative to others discussed.
Quote from: NE2 on February 23, 2015, 01:40:09 PMand using vtk's value is:
something that makes a bit more sense that just a raw population thing.
Here's the top 11 - things don't look that bad.
Phoenix San Diego: AZ85 upgrade - really not that hard to fix.
Miami Orlando: A branding issue, rather than a deficiency of the road network!
Los Angeles Fresno: Is this similar to Miami-Orlando now, or does CA99 need a bit more effort?
Houston Austin: Given Texan pork further south, why isn't this proposed as a toll road, or a porky project?
Phoenix Las Vegas: I-11.
Detroit Columbus: They are making US23 a freeway to get Columbus - I-75 north, aren't they? Revive I-73 north of Columbus!
Detroit Indianapolis: Given other states on I-69 are going all out on the spurs and stuff, it seems silly that IN didn't try and push the Toledo-Fort Wayne route as part of the network. If OH or IN were IL, TX or NC, this would be proposed as interstate. It's getting built to a decent standard though.
Dallas Denver: That Fort Worth - Raton interstate. Kind of ruined by the four-lane emptiness, making upgrades pretty pointless surely?
Washington Buffalo: I-99 pork helps, but State College - Buffalo is missing. 20 miles more via 390 and a more direct connection than I-90. Would 20 miles difference be enough to get it considered done? Buffalo - I-390 is a lot less construction than Buffalo - State College! Plus the Buffalo - I-390 connection takes just over 20 miles off the shortest interstate-only Buffalo-NYC connection (I-80, I-380, I-81, I-90).
Tampa Jacksonville: Only about 65 miles to get a Jacksonville - I-75 connection that would do this.
Houston Memphis: The US59 interstate in TX will sort this.
Quote from: NE2 on February 23, 2015, 01:40:09 PM
I calculated geometric mean and vtk's value for most pairs mentioned in this thread using 2000 urban area populations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas). Note that NYC-Philly is not a real answer; 95-195-295-76 is close enough. Jax-Tampa is also debatable; going via Orlando adds only 20 miles. And note that Brownsville excludes the Mexican side of the border (as does San Diego).
The order using geometric mean is:
Dallas Denver
Phoenix San Diego
Miami Orlando
Los Angeles Fresno
Phoenix Las Vegas
Houston Austin
Las Vegas Portland
Detroit Indianapolis
Houston Memphis
Detroit Columbus
Washington Buffalo
Tampa Jacksonville
San Francisco Fresno
Denver OKC
Las Vegas Reno
Providence Hartford
Houston Brownsville
Memphis Birmingham
Portland Spokane
Pittsburgh Scranton
San Antonio Brownsville
Tulsa Wichita
Reno Spokane
Reno Boise
and using vtk's value is:
Phoenix San Diego
Miami Orlando
Los Angeles Fresno
Houston Austin
Phoenix Las Vegas
Detroit Columbus
Detroit Indianapolis
Dallas Denver
Washington Buffalo
Tampa Jacksonville
Houston Memphis
San Francisco Fresno
Las Vegas Portland
Providence Hartford
Denver OKC
Las Vegas Reno
Houston Brownsville
Memphis Birmingham
Pittsburgh Scranton
Portland Spokane
San Antonio Brownsville
Tulsa Wichita
Reno Boise
Reno Spokane
http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EB6bdnNKz49vB1XrKlk7VaIxju5QMKZyBZZhL3I6fs0/edit?usp=sharing for the full details.
What about St Paul & St Louis?
Quote from: english si on February 24, 2015, 09:12:05 AM
Detroit Columbus: They are making US23 a freeway to get Columbus — I-75 north, aren't they? Revive I-73 north of Columbus!
They were going to. ODOT officially abandoned I-73 years ago, and doesn't seem to consider the Delaware County section to be worth fixing or bypassing. I agree this should be revived, and my I-171 proposal (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4801.0) is probably the path of least resistance between Marion and Columbus.
Quote from: texaskdog on February 24, 2015, 09:55:46 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 23, 2015, 01:40:09 PM
I calculated geometric mean and vtk's value for most pairs mentioned in this thread using 2000 urban area populations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas). Note that NYC-Philly is not a real answer; 95-195-295-76 is close enough. Jax-Tampa is also debatable; going via Orlando adds only 20 miles. And note that Brownsville excludes the Mexican side of the border (as does San Diego).
The order using geometric mean is:
Dallas Denver
Phoenix San Diego
Miami Orlando
Los Angeles Fresno
Phoenix Las Vegas
Houston Austin
Las Vegas Portland
Detroit Indianapolis
Houston Memphis
Detroit Columbus
Washington Buffalo
Tampa Jacksonville
San Francisco Fresno
Denver OKC
Las Vegas Reno
Providence Hartford
Houston Brownsville
Memphis Birmingham
Portland Spokane
Pittsburgh Scranton
San Antonio Brownsville
Tulsa Wichita
Reno Spokane
Reno Boise
and using vtk's value is:
Phoenix San Diego
Miami Orlando
Los Angeles Fresno
Houston Austin
Phoenix Las Vegas
Detroit Columbus
Detroit Indianapolis
Dallas Denver
Washington Buffalo
Tampa Jacksonville
Houston Memphis
San Francisco Fresno
Las Vegas Portland
Providence Hartford
Denver OKC
Las Vegas Reno
Houston Brownsville
Memphis Birmingham
Pittsburgh Scranton
Portland Spokane
San Antonio Brownsville
Tulsa Wichita
Reno Boise
Reno Spokane
http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EB6bdnNKz49vB1XrKlk7VaIxju5QMKZyBZZhL3I6fs0/edit?usp=sharing for the full details.
What about St Paul & St Louis?
Also, (if I did the formulas correctly) Los Angeles-San Jose would be near the top of this list based on mean.
San Jose is part of the Frisco urban area.
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2015, 08:12:10 PM
San Jose is part of the Frisco urban area.
I absolutely agree with you in real-world usage, but the Census Bureau (which is your stated source for data) does not.
Quote from: english si on February 24, 2015, 09:12:05 AM
Los Angeles Fresno: Is this similar to Miami-Orlando now, or does CA99 need a bit more effort?
CA 99 is very close to being a full freeway from I-5 to Sacramento. Substandard of course given the age of a lot of it, but close enough once they finish it all.
QuoteHouston Austin: Given Texan pork further south, why isn't this proposed as a toll road, or a porky project?
US 290 is slowly being upgraded. Most of the big towns have been bypassed, with Giddings being the only really nasty spot left. Manor and Elgin will need some work to close off access, and it's easy to see that being an extension of the existing toll road in a few years. Something will need to be done to reconfigure the interchange with the Brenham bypass. The rest can more or less be upgraded in-place with some frontage roads and a few overpasses. SH 71 to I-10 is another simple upgrade once the toll road near the airport is done. There are already projects on the books to finish the freeway through Bastrop, which is the other troublesome spot (especially that stoplight at SH 95 near the Buc-ee's, with that overpass being on the Prop 1 list).
QuoteDallas Denver: That Fort Worth - Raton interstate. Kind of ruined by the four-lane emptiness, making upgrades pretty pointless surely?
Needs bypasses. Lots of bypasses.
Quote from: DTComposer on February 25, 2015, 12:53:24 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2015, 08:12:10 PM
San Jose is part of the Frisco urban area.
I absolutely agree with you in real-world usage, but the Census Bureau (which is your stated source for data) does not.
Hmmm, you're right. That's an interesting case.
QuoteDallas Denver: That Fort Worth - Raton interstate. Kind of ruined by the four-lane emptiness, making upgrades pretty pointless surely?
After doing this recently, both ways, I kinda wondered myself. 87 in NM is done the entire way, but it's very, very desolate. There's still that missing link around Dumas. The Amarillo outer bypass is not entirely to standard. 287 in Texas has almost no bypasses between Amarillo and Wichita Falls.
The entire route in general seems to lack a lot of services. All but 25 miles of the whole thing is four lane but it's a long, long way from being an interstate corridor.
My vote goes to Jacksonville-Atlanta. Both are legitimately large cities (and the largest in their states), but because there are no cities of significance between them, we'll probably never see such a road.
I was going to say, Jacksonville bigger than Miami?! Then I actually looked up the numbers. Hell, Portland's bigger than Miami. Whaddyaknow.
Quote from: Bickendan on March 02, 2015, 02:03:29 PM
I was going to say, Jacksonville bigger than Miami?! Then I actually looked up the numbers.
Only because Jacksonville merged with its county. Miami-Dade County has three times the population of Duval, and the Miami urban area has five times the population of the Jax urban area.
PS: Jax-Atlanta has a reasonable connection. Not the most direct, but not indirect like Vegas-Phoenix or Austin-Houston.
Quote from: mrose on March 01, 2015, 02:31:09 AM
QuoteDallas Denver: That Fort Worth - Raton interstate. Kind of ruined by the four-lane emptiness, making upgrades pretty pointless surely?
After doing this recently, both ways, I kinda wondered myself. 87 in NM is done the entire way, but it's very, very desolate. There's still that missing link around Dumas. The Amarillo outer bypass is not entirely to standard. 287 in Texas has almost no bypasses between Amarillo and Wichita Falls.
The entire route in general seems to lack a lot of services. All but 25 miles of the whole thing is four lane but it's a long, long way from being an interstate corridor.
The interstate system wasn't all about current needs, or there would be no freeways in Montana or the Dakota.
Quote from: mrose on March 01, 2015, 02:31:09 AM
QuoteDallas Denver: That Fort Worth - Raton interstate. Kind of ruined by the four-lane emptiness, making upgrades pretty pointless surely?
After doing this recently, both ways, I kinda wondered myself. 87 in NM is done the entire way, but it's very, very desolate. There's still that missing link around Dumas. The Amarillo outer bypass is not entirely to standard. 287 in Texas has almost no bypasses between Amarillo and Wichita Falls.
The entire route in general seems to lack a lot of services. All but 25 miles of the whole thing is four lane but it's a long, long way from being an interstate corridor.
Most of the truck traffic doesn't go through Raton- taking 287 all the way from Denver is shorter, less mountainous, and bypasses Colorado Springs and Pueblo.
I don't know that either needs to be an interstate, but having driven both I can tell you for sure the trucks are on 287 between Denver and Dumas.
Quote from: corco on March 02, 2015, 03:37:23 PM
I don't know that either needs to be an interstate, but having driven both I can tell you for sure the trucks are on 287 between Denver and Dumas.
But not Boise City. Those trucks were elimitanted.
Buffalo, NY with Baltimore and DC which we all have brought up on fictional highways too many times.
How about Wilmington, NC to Charlotte, NC? Yes it has I-40 and I-85, but that is going out of your way. US 74 is still your best bet and many truckers use that way, which is why many of discussed here how useless the present plan of I-74 east of Rockingham is.
To have one following US 74 between those two cities would be more useful to the motoring public than what is on the books now.
Quote from: NE2 on March 02, 2015, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: corco on March 02, 2015, 03:37:23 PM
I don't know that either needs to be an interstate, but having driven both I can tell you for sure the trucks are on 287 between Denver and Dumas.
But not Boise City. Those trucks were elimitanted.
The trucks weren't elimitanted, only their trarffic
For those who are new to the party (yeah right)...
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 24, 2012, 10:57:07 PM
Quote from: corco on May 19, 2012, 11:17:22 PM
Just 287 according to the maps associated with the AASHTO filings. I'll be there in a couple weeks to properly investigate.
When you get down there you'll have to tell us whether the bypass has managed to, as ODOT said, "elimitante the truck trarffic".
Quote from: NE2 on March 02, 2015, 03:02:51 PM
Quote from: Bickendan on March 02, 2015, 02:03:29 PM
I was going to say, Jacksonville bigger than Miami?! Then I actually looked up the numbers.
Only because Jacksonville merged with its county. Miami-Dade County has three times the population of Duval, and the Miami urban area has five times the population of the Jax urban area.
PS: Jax-Atlanta has a reasonable connection. Not the most direct, but not indirect like Vegas-Phoenix or Austin-Houston.
What is this "reasonable connection" you speak of? Not trying to be confrontational or anything. Is it I-10 to I-75? Or is it I-95 to I-16 to I-75? Or does it involve taking the US highways and state routes through Georgia?
I-10 to I-75. For the amount of traffic actually going between the two cities, it's good enough.
Quote from: NE2 on March 03, 2015, 07:31:24 PM
I-10 to I-75. For the amount of traffic actually going between the two cities, it's good enough.
Agreed. And if not taking I-10 to I-75 or I-95 to I-16 to I-75, just from my head I'd say a good alternative is US 1/US 23 to US 23 to US 341 all the way to GA 224 to I-75, and almost all of that is multi-lane.