I live in Clemmons, NC, a village of nearly 20,000 people, and realized we don't have a NC state highway in city limits. What are other large towns without a state highway? Specifically ones in your state.
Hopefully this hasn't been discussed before, or that it is simply a boring/bad topic.
Clemmons has several federal routes and a number of secondary state roads. I'd be a lot more interested in any place without any state maintained highway (or even without any primary state highway).
Queen Creek, Arizona with a population of 26,361 as of the 2010 Census does not have any state highways serving the town directly. Nearest state route is SR 24, to the north in Mesa.
Babbitt, MN looks like a top candidate for our winner.
Quote from: NE2 on March 10, 2015, 07:02:58 PM
Clemmons has several federal routes and a number of secondary state roads. I'd be a lot more interested in any place without any state maintained highway (or even without any primary state highway).
Oh, I understand that of course. I am just interested in the primary state routes. Why didn't I state that like you? :banghead:
Using NE2s prompt because there are hundreds of populated cities with US routes or interstates but no primary state highways in the US:
Point Roberts WA and Alta WY :bigass:
Montana's system is so extensive that there isn't much. Fort Smith (pop 161) is probably the biggest. Wyoming does a really good job with coverage too. Idaho has dozens of well-known place names that don't have state highway access, but I can't think of one larger than Garden Valley (394) off the top of my head.
White Swan, Washington is fairly large with 3,033, and it's unique because it had a state highway until 1992.
Just looking at a map of Illinois, we have a very small number of municipalities (cities, villages, and the rare town) without a state route (interstate/tollway/US highway/state route) of some kind within the municipal boundaries.
Here's the list I found thus far:
Cleveland: 188
Greenwood: 255
Trout Valley: 537
Oakwood Hills: 2,083
Evanston: 74,486
Merrionette Park: 1,900
Burnham: 4,206
Flossmoor: 9,464 (Governors Highway may be an unmarked state route)
Jerome: 1,656
Leland Grove: 1,503
Grandview: 1,441
East Carondelet: 499
Of these, Evanston is the undisputed winner. Evanston used to have state routes within its municipal boundaries (IL-42 being one of them), but has not had one for at least three decades.
If the definition of state highway excludes Interstates and US Routes, Avondale, Arizona with a population of 76,238 is only served by I-10 (although Loop 101 comes very close but does not actually enter or touch the city limits).
If US Routes don't count... Hillsborough, New Jersey with a population of nearly 40k is not served by any state routes.
Quote from: Zeffy on March 10, 2015, 07:54:01 PM
If US Routes don't count... Hillsborough, New Jersey with a population of nearly 40k is not served by any state routes.
Hoboken at 50,005 beats you: doesn't have any state routes, state-maintained routes, or state-numbered routes (not even any 500 county roads).
Long Beach has none, partially because it is relatively isolated from the state road network and has no limited-access highways.
The remaining few New York has (at least that I can think of) are much smaller than anything already listed. Every portion of the state is incorporated as a town, village, or city (villages are incorporated on top of towns) and even the unincorporated hamlets (unincorporated as in not a city or village) of any decent size typically have a state highway.
Quote from: cl94 on March 10, 2015, 11:11:11 PM
Long Beach has none, partially because it is relatively isolated from the state road network and has no limited-access highways.
The remaining few New York has (at least that I can think of) are much smaller than anything already listed. Every portion of the state is incorporated as a town, village, or city (villages are incorporated on top of towns) and even the unincorporated hamlets (unincorporated as in not a city or village) of any decent size typically have a state highway.
True if we're talking population, but if we're looking at area then any state with civil towns/townships is likely to have numerous contenders (New York included). Of course, while these are municipalities, they are arguably not incorporated places (not "incorporated" by NY terminology, and not "places" by Census terminology).
Besides towns, in NY there are numerous incorporated villages, particularly on Long Island, that have no state roads whatsoever. Most of these have small populations, but some have extensive areas (Lloyd Harbor, for example). The most populous I can find offhand is Garden City, at about 22,000.
(Garden City is famous for being the seat of Nassau County's government, but not the Nassau County seat.)
Clark, NJ population of 14, 500, though not as much as Hoboken has no state highway, and not even a 500 series route either.
I used to feel left out growing up there as all of our neighbors had state highways transiting them. All except Winfield, which was smaller than Clark and barely a township as it was measured more in acreage then square miles. Even some large estates have more land than it, but nonetheless, the township had no major state routes although the Garden State Parkway passed through it, but its un-numbered except on paper.
For Mississippi, it'd be Gulfport (pop. 71K+).
In Iowa, it's Johnston, population 17K. The southern border goes up to the ROW of I-35/80 in a few places, but never actually crosses it.
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 12:27:39 AM
For Mississippi, it'd be Gulfport (pop. 71K+).
What about MS 605?
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 12:27:39 AM
For Mississippi, it'd be Gulfport (pop. 71K+).
What about US-49 and US-90? Those are both state roads.
I'm still waiting to see if anything beats Evanston, Illinois at 74,486. There are no current state roads of any kind (state route, US highway, or interstate) within Evanston's municipal boundaries. IL-42 and IL-58 used to, but were removed decades ago.
The only town I can think of in Alabama that is incorporated and doesn't have any State/Federal Highways serving it is the town of Eva, AL with a population of 519 as of 2010.
The only roads serving it are county routes.
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 11, 2015, 10:36:58 AM
The only town I can think of in Alabama that is incorporated and doesn't have any State/Federal Highways serving it is the town of Eva, AL with a population of 519 as of 2010.
The only roads serving it are county routes.
Pleasant Grove, AL - a Birmingham suburb - with a population of 10,110 does not have a State or Federal Highway within its city limits. Alabama 269 is adjacent to a small finger of land that was annexed by Pleasant Grove.
Burlington Twp, NJ, population slightly over 20,000, does not have a state route...under NJDOT jurisdiction. NJ 700, better known as the NJ Turnpike, does clip Burlington Twp. So use your judgement whether it counts or not.
What about NJ 413, the continuation of PA 413? That's entirely within Burlington City.
Camden, NJ, population about 77,000, amazingly almost fits into this category. Just a small piece of NJ 168 - about 1/3 of a mile, enters Camden.
Quote from: clong on March 11, 2015, 11:01:02 AM
Quote from: freebrickproductions on March 11, 2015, 10:36:58 AM
The only town I can think of in Alabama that is incorporated and doesn't have any State/Federal Highways serving it is the town of Eva, AL with a population of 519 as of 2010.
The only roads serving it are county routes.
Pleasant Grove, AL - a Birmingham suburb - with a population of 10,110 does not have a State or Federal Highway within its city limits. Alabama 269 is adjacent to a small finger of land that was annexed by Pleasant Grove.
Hueytown, AL (just to the SW of Pleasant Grove) also doesn't have any state or federal highways either.
California's largest city without a numbered route running through it is Huntington Park (58K) near Los Angeles, in part because the Route 90 freeway gap from Marina Del Rey to Orange County will never be completed.
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 06:36:47 AM
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 12:27:39 AM
For Mississippi, it'd be Gulfport (pop. 71K+).
What about US-49 and US-90? Those are both state roads.
49 & 90 are federal highways.
After further review, 605 does run through Gulfport. I was looking at an old map that didn't 605 signed. It appears now that the largest city without a state route is Clinton (about 26K).
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 11:48:21 PM
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 06:36:47 AM
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 12:27:39 AM
For Mississippi, it'd be Gulfport (pop. 71K+).
What about US-49 and US-90? Those are both state roads.
49 & 90 are federal highways.
After further review, 605 does run through Gulfport. I was looking at an old map that didn't 605 signed. It appears now that the largest city without a state route is Clinton (about 26K).
As far as I'm concerned, "state road" means anything maintained by the state, be it interstate, US highway (not federal highway), or state route. It may even include an unmarked state road.
Same here. An Interstate highway and an unsigned secondary state route are both state highways. But then what do we do with Minnesota? (CSAH)
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
As far as I'm concerned, "state road" means anything maintained by the state, be it interstate, US highway (not federal highway), or state route. It may even include an unmarked state road.
According to IDOT GIS data, they maintain South Boulevard north of Calvary Cemetery (several other streets including Dempster are tagged as having 'joint maintenance responsibility'). This may be an error, but in 2009 the state repaved it (http://evanstonnow.com/story/news/bill-smith/2009-07-09/caution-road-work-ahead).
Quote from: kphoger on March 11, 2015, 11:59:19 PM
Same here. An Interstate highway and an unsigned secondary state route are both state highways. But then what do we do with Minnesota? (CSAH)
State aid is not state maintenance any more than federal aid is federal maintenance.
SoCal towns:
Huntington Park, CA (pop. 59k)
Cypress, CA (pop. 49k)
Beverly Hills, CA (pop. 35k) (SR-2 was relinquished to the City in 2005)
Walnut, CA (pop. 30k)
Maywood, CA (pop. 28k)
San Fernando, CA (pop. 24k)
Port Hueneme, CA (pop. 22k)
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 11:48:21 PM
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 06:36:47 AM
Quote from: golden eagle on March 11, 2015, 12:27:39 AM
For Mississippi, it'd be Gulfport (pop. 71K+).
What about US-49 and US-90? Those are both state roads.
49 & 90 are federal highways.
After further review, 605 does run through Gulfport. I was looking at an old map that didn't 605 signed. It appears now that the largest city without a state route is Clinton (about 26K).
As far as I'm concerned, "state road" means anything maintained by the state, be it interstate, US highway (not federal highway), or state route. It may even include an unmarked state road.
Right, but the OP called for "state highways", an ambiguous term that could mean roads under state maintenance/ownership/jurisdiction–including US routes and Interstates–but that I believe was meant to refer to state-numbered
routes. And as we all now by now, there are lots of state roads that aren't state routes (US routes, Interstates, unsigned or secondary highways, non-numbered systems like parkways, etc.), and there are lots of state routes that aren't state roads (most NY state-numbered routes along city streets, for example).
Indeed, if we apply the latter fact to the question, there might be a sizable city in NYS that has no state roads in it, because all of the NYS routes in the city run along city-maintained streets. (Although on reflection I sort of doubt it, since pretty much every city has at least one segment of freeway or arterial that is a bona-fide state road.)
If we're only counting signed state routes, then Bend, OR (~81k pop) has none. The two highways in Bend are US-97 and US-20. The Cascade Lakes Highway (Century Drive Highway) is in the state highway system (as are all state, US and interstate routes, with internal highways numbers unrelated to the signed route number; 372 in this case), but is not signed as a state route so I don't think it counts. If you're unfamiliar with how Oregon's highway system works, this might better explain it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_named_state_highways_in_Oregon
If Interstate and US routes do not count, and only state routes count, then Washington DC (population around 659,000) would probably top the list since DC-295 is not a state route, regardless of what some politicians there might like you to believe. :bigass:
The FHWA considers DC a state for the purposes of its operations. DC is essentially a de facto state from a purely roads point of view.
Quote from: NE2 on March 12, 2015, 12:34:05 AM
Quote from: Brandon on March 11, 2015, 11:53:07 PM
As far as I'm concerned, "state road" means anything maintained by the state, be it interstate, US highway (not federal highway), or state route. It may even include an unmarked state road.
According to IDOT GIS data, they maintain South Boulevard north of Calvary Cemetery (several other streets including Dempster are tagged as having 'joint maintenance responsibility'). This may be an error, but in 2009 the state repaved it (http://evanstonnow.com/story/news/bill-smith/2009-07-09/caution-road-work-ahead).
Dempster is definitely still an unmarked state route, even if Evanston takes care of the day to day maintenance, IDOT still gets to make major decisions for the route.
A Cook County jurisdiction map (http://cookviewer1.cookcountyil.gov/hwyjurisdiction/) has seven unmarked state routes in the city limits. (South Boulevard, Dempster Street, Asbury Avenue, Church Street, Crawford Avenue, Gross Point Road, and Green Bay Road). Depending on the source, Golf Road/Emmerson Street is also state for a hundred feet or so inside the western boundary.
EDIT: It does appears though that Cook County is not keeping that map up to date on some of the transfers to other local agencies, as I am finding a few routes still shown as state that have definitely been transferred.
Pending clarification from the OP on just what he meant by "state highway", I'm with Brandon in that I interpret it to be state designated/state maintained highway. In that regard, U.S. highways and Interstates are "state highways". While Interstates fall under FHWA oversight, they are still owned by the states or state-designated authorities (i.e. city of Baltimore for I-83 or various toll authorities for tolled routes).
The only thing "federal" about the U.S. routes is that they were intended as a uniform route marking system that crossed state lines. Otherwise, they are VERY MUCH part of each respective state's highways.
So on that note, I did a quick check via GIS of Mississippi, and the largest incorporated town I could find without a state highway is Friars Point (pop 1200) in northern Coahoma County near the Mississippi River.
In Minnesota, the largest by far is Andover (pop 30,598).
I'm guessing (also pending clarification) that the OP was referring to largest-population towns and not largest-landarea towns as a few responses have been.
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 13, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
If Interstate and US routes do not count, and only state routes count, then Washington DC (population around 659,000) would probably top the list since DC-295 is not a state route, regardless of what some politicians there might like you to believe. :bigass:
No, Philadelphia would then win since I-76, PA 611, etc. are maintained by the Commonwealth (not state) of Pennsylvania.
Quote from: froggie on March 14, 2015, 02:28:05 PM
So on that note, I did a quick check via GIS of Mississippi, and the largest incorporated town I could find without a state highway is Friars Point (pop 1200) in northern Coahoma County near the Mississippi River.
Which is, however, on a legislatively-defined unmaintained (and unsigned) extension of MS 316: http://mdot.ms.gov/documents/planning/Maps/State%20Designated%20State%20Maintained.pdf
Quote from: Mr. Matté on March 14, 2015, 02:31:21 PM
No, Philadelphia would then win since I-76, PA 611, etc. are maintained by the Commonwealth (not state) of Pennsylvania.
The only thing better than nitpicking is incorrect nitpicking.
Quote from: TheStranger on March 11, 2015, 11:55:59 AM
California's largest city without a numbered route running through it is Huntington Park (58K) near Los Angeles, in part because the Route 90 freeway gap from Marina Del Rey to Orange County will never be completed.
Isn't Gardena just a tiny bit bigger? (59K) And CA-91 now ends at the Gardena city limit?
Ann Arbor, MI is real close to being on his list. M-14 just clips the NW corner of the city. If it weren't for that, they might be a clear-cut winner.
Quote from: Mr. Matté on March 14, 2015, 02:31:21 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on March 13, 2015, 03:32:32 PM
If Interstate and US routes do not count, and only state routes count, then Washington DC (population around 659,000) would probably top the list since DC-295 is not a state route, regardless of what some politicians there might like you to believe. :bigass:
No, Philadelphia would then win since I-76, PA 611, etc. are maintained by the Commonwealth (not state) of Pennsylvania.
Difference is, a "commonwealth" in that context is just a fancier term for a state and it has no legal significance. The District of Columbia is not a state (regardless of the FHWA treating it as one).
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on March 15, 2015, 07:00:34 AM
Ann Arbor, MI is real close to being on his list. M-14 just clips the NW corner of the city. If it weren't for that, they might be a clear-cut winner.
Google Maps shows that several miles of I-94 are within the city limits, and portions of I-94, US 23, and M-14 (centerlines?) serve as the city limits. Not even close, at least if Google is accurate.
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 15, 2015, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on March 15, 2015, 07:00:34 AM
Ann Arbor, MI is real close to being on his list. M-14 just clips the NW corner of the city. If it weren't for that, they might be a clear-cut winner.
Google Maps shows that several miles of I-94 are within the city limits, and portions of I-94, US 23, and M-14 (centerlines?) serve as the city limits. Not even close, at least if Google is accurate.
Well, it would be close if M-14 did indeed just trace the city limits, but it appears to have long stretches wholly inside the boundary (again, according to Google, which is presumably TIGER data, and thus as accurate as you're likely to find without actually going to city hall).
One that actually just barely misses is Melrose, MA (population 27000). MA 99 goes just barely inside.
EDIT: Nantucket (population 10000) won't win, but at least the fact that it has no numbered highways is indisputable.
Has this place become Facebook, where posts disappear randomly? I could have sworn I posted in this topic, but I can't see my post.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 15, 2015, 05:05:04 PM
Has this place become Facebook, where posts disappear randomly? I could have sworn I posted in this topic, but I can't see my post.
I cannot see your post either. If it existed, what number reply was it?
Quote from: 1 on March 15, 2015, 05:07:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on March 15, 2015, 05:05:04 PM
Has this place become Facebook, where posts disappear randomly? I could have sworn I posted in this topic, but I can't see my post.
I cannot see your post either. If it existed, what number reply was it?
Unless you post something political or get into a flame war, it should not be removed.
Check other posts or go through your own history. Sometimes I post in one topic and then go to a similar one days later trying to find that one post and its not there of course.
He made a troll comment about Carl Rogers.
Quote from: NE2 on March 15, 2015, 06:24:17 PM
He made a troll comment about Carl Rogers.
The CalRog comment was funny. What happened after was not.
Not pooing is funnier than IDiOT/Calrog.
Quote from: Occidental Tourist on March 12, 2015, 11:40:27 PM
SoCal towns:
Huntington Park, CA (pop. 59k)
Cypress, CA (pop. 49k)
Beverly Hills, CA (pop. 35k) (SR-2 was relinquished to the City in 2005)
Walnut, CA (pop. 30k)
Maywood, CA (pop. 28k)
San Fernando, CA (pop. 24k)
Port Hueneme, CA (pop. 22k)
Wait I thought CA-118 at I-210 interchange is within San Fernando City Limits right?
Took me a while to come up with the largest municiaplities for indiana, but here we go:
The largest community without a state route only would be Carmel (pop. 85k.) I-465, US 31 and US 421 pass through, but no state roads.
The largest community with no INDOT-maintained highways running through, the home of the Indy 500, Speedway (pop. 12k.) I-465 does form the western edge but is never fully within the city and with US 136's truncation a few years back that highway only hits the western edge. Close enough.
Quote from: empirestate on March 15, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
Quote from: dfwmapper on March 15, 2015, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on March 15, 2015, 07:00:34 AM
Ann Arbor, MI is real close to being on his list. M-14 just clips the NW corner of the city. If it weren't for that, they might be a clear-cut winner.
Google Maps shows that several miles of I-94 are within the city limits, and portions of I-94, US 23, and M-14 (centerlines?) serve as the city limits. Not even close, at least if Google is accurate.
Well, it would be close if M-14 did indeed just trace the city limits, but it appears to have long stretches wholly inside the boundary (again, according to Google, which is presumably TIGER data, and thus as accurate as you're likely to find without actually going to city hall).
Just to check, I pulled up MDOT's Physical Reference Finder Map (http://www.mcgi.state.mi.us/prfinder/mapBasic.aspx), which has the official city limits, and Ann Arbor has several state highways within its boundaries.
- Most of the ROW for US 23 on the east side is just outside the city limits, but between Packard and the south side of the cloverleaf for Washtenaw Avenue, it is in the city. Part of the ROW at the Plymouth Road interchange is in the city as well.
- Bus US 23/M-14 crosses through part of the city at the Huron River. M-14 continues through the city west to Maple Road, exits and then re-enters the city to the west side of the ramps for Miller Road.
- I-94 runs through the city from Wagner Road to Liberty Road, where the boundary runs next to the I-94 ROW. The line zig-zags back and forth to encompass sections of the ROW from there until the State Street interchange. From there until Ellsworth Road, I-94 is firmly within the city.
- Any segments of BL I-94 and Bus US 23 that aren't on the freeways are within the city, and yes, those are considered state highways by MDOT; the department has jurisdiction and control over business routes in the state
The ten largest cities without a state highway in Michigan that I can find are:
- Grosse Point Woods (16,135) in Wayne County
- Grosse Pointe Park (11,555) in Wayne County
- South Lyon (11,327) in Oakland County
- East Grand Rapids (10,694) in Kent County
- Beverly Hills" (10,267) in Oakland County
- Ecorse (9,512) in Wayne County
- Grosse Pointe Farms (9,479) in Wayne County
- Plymouth (9,132) in Wayne County
- Flushing (8,389) in Genesee County
- Grand Blanc (8,144) in Genesee County
" Village
The other various villages lacking highways are all smaller, and none of the cities rank in the top 100 municipalities by population (which includes some townships). The city of Wyandotte at 25,883 would be the largest, but M-85 (Fort Street) forms part of its western boundary with the city limits along the center line. East Grand Rapids used to have part of US 16 on its northern boundary along Cascade Road, but that hasn't been a state highway in decades. M-37/M-44 on the East Beltline just misses the NW corner of the city by less than 100 feet.
Quote from: bulldog1979 on March 16, 2015, 04:52:26 AM
Quote from: empirestate on March 15, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
Well, it would be close if M-14 did indeed just trace the city limits, but it appears to have long stretches wholly inside the boundary (again, according to Google, which is presumably TIGER data, and thus as accurate as you're likely to find without actually going to city hall).
Just to check, I pulled up MDOT's Physical Reference Finder Map (http://www.mcgi.state.mi.us/prfinder/mapBasic.aspx), which has the official city limits, and Ann Arbor has several state highways within its boundaries.
- Most of the ROW for US 23 on the east side is just outside the city limits, but between Packard and the south side of the cloverleaf for Washtenaw Avenue, it is in the city. Part of the ROW at the Plymouth Road interchange is in the city as well.
- Bus US 23/M-14 crosses through part of the city at the Huron River. M-14 continues through the city west to Maple Road, exits and then re-enters the city to the west side of the ramps for Miller Road.
- I-94 runs through the city from Wagner Road to Liberty Road, where the boundary runs next to the I-94 ROW. The line zig-zags back and forth to encompass sections of the ROW from there until the State Street interchange. From there until Ellsworth Road, I-94 is firmly within the city.
- Any segments of BL I-94 and Bus US 23 that aren't on the freeways are within the city, and yes, those are considered state highways by MDOT; the department has jurisdiction and control over business routes in the state
Yeah, that matches what I see in Google. So Ann Arbor definitely doesn't count, but the only reason it doesn't is M-14, since the OP is
Quote from: geocachingpirate on March 10, 2015, 07:15:43 PMjust interested in the primary state routes
–meaning the M-routes, in this case. (Of course, US 23, I-94 and the business routes further disqualify Ann Arbor from the side question of largest municipalities with no highways under state jurisdiction, so it's just a no-go however you slice it.)
I would be hard-pressed to name a single incorporated municipality in Kentucky without a state highway. Perhaps some of those subdivision-as-incorporated-city places in Louisville might qualify, but I doubt any of them would qualify as "largest."
Heck some of Kentucky's smallest county seat towns have a US highway (Hyden, McKee, Frenchburg) or three two-digit state routes (Booneville) running through them.
Quote from: hbelkins on March 16, 2015, 12:01:57 PM
I would be hard-pressed to name a single incorporated municipality in Kentucky without a state highway. Perhaps some of those subdivision-as-incorporated-city places in Louisville might qualify, but I doubt any of them would qualify as "largest."
Heck some of Kentucky's smallest county seat towns have a US highway (Hyden, McKee, Frenchburg) or three two-digit state routes (Booneville) running through them.
Yep, same with Louisiana. Unless there's a part of New Orleans or Baton Rouge that doesn't have even a hyphenated neighborhood route, Louisiana may not have any.
Quote from: DTComposer on March 14, 2015, 05:28:43 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on March 11, 2015, 11:55:59 AM
California's largest city without a numbered route running through it is Huntington Park (58K) near Los Angeles, in part because the Route 90 freeway gap from Marina Del Rey to Orange County will never be completed.
Isn't Gardena just a tiny bit bigger? (59K) And CA-91 now ends at the Gardena city limit?
91 reaches Vermont Avenue (the city limit) - I feel honestly that'd be enough to count it as having a numbered route reach the area. Also, heading west along Artesia, the route is still signed in spots as of 2014.
Huntington Park on the other hand has never had a numbered route through it and is a mile away from the nearest one (Long Beach Freeway/I-710).
Quote from: bing101Wait I thought CA-118 at I-210 interchange is within San Fernando City Limits right?
Nope: https://goo.gl/maps/xmI9c
The east city limit at Foothill Boulevard (and the Pacoima Wash) is only a few feet away from 210 though. Prior to the mid-1950s, US 6 & 99 ran along San Fernando Road through the heart of town.
Quote from: empirestate on March 16, 2015, 11:50:16 AM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on March 16, 2015, 04:52:26 AM
Quote from: empirestate on March 15, 2015, 04:05:23 PM
Well, it would be close if M-14 did indeed just trace the city limits, but it appears to have long stretches wholly inside the boundary (again, according to Google, which is presumably TIGER data, and thus as accurate as you're likely to find without actually going to city hall).
Just to check, I pulled up MDOT's Physical Reference Finder Map (http://www.mcgi.state.mi.us/prfinder/mapBasic.aspx), which has the official city limits, and Ann Arbor has several state highways within its boundaries.
- Most of the ROW for US 23 on the east side is just outside the city limits, but between Packard and the south side of the cloverleaf for Washtenaw Avenue, it is in the city. Part of the ROW at the Plymouth Road interchange is in the city as well.
- Bus US 23/M-14 crosses through part of the city at the Huron River. M-14 continues through the city west to Maple Road, exits and then re-enters the city to the west side of the ramps for Miller Road.
- I-94 runs through the city from Wagner Road to Liberty Road, where the boundary runs next to the I-94 ROW. The line zig-zags back and forth to encompass sections of the ROW from there until the State Street interchange. From there until Ellsworth Road, I-94 is firmly within the city.
- Any segments of BL I-94 and Bus US 23 that aren't on the freeways are within the city, and yes, those are considered state highways by MDOT; the department has jurisdiction and control over business routes in the state
Yeah, that matches what I see in Google. So Ann Arbor definitely doesn't count, but the only reason it doesn't is M-14, since the OP isQuote from: geocachingpirate on March 10, 2015, 07:15:43 PMjust interested in the primary state routes
–meaning the M-routes, in this case. (Of course, US 23, I-94 and the business routes further disqualify Ann Arbor from the side question of largest municipalities with no highways under state jurisdiction, so it's just a no-go however you slice it.)
Man, you folks are getting anal. The original post was about STATE highways, not interstates or US routes, or their business routes. I am well aware that decades ago, Ann Arbor set their city limits at the highways that encircled the city, and have since progressed beyond them in spots. Had the question been inclusive for federal highways, I wouldn't have bothered posting it.
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 22, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
This. How anyone can argue that Interstates and US routes don't count is silly in my view.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2015, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 22, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
This. How anyone can argue that Interstates and US routes don't count is silly in my view.
Most states count both as state routes. Take New York for example. Officially, I-87 is Route 87I. Heck, PA's markers even list I-90 as "SR 90".
Quote from: corco on March 10, 2015, 07:18:32 PM
Using NE2s prompt because there are hundreds of populated cities with US routes or interstates but no primary state highways in the US:
Point Roberts WA and Alta WY :bigass:
Montana's system is so extensive that there isn't much. Fort Smith (pop 161) is probably the biggest. Wyoming does a really good job with coverage too. Idaho has dozens of well-known place names that don't have state highway access, but I can't think of one larger than Garden Valley (394) off the top of my head.
White Swan, Washington is fairly large with 3,033, and it's unique because it had a state highway until 1992.
I think you will find that Point Roberts and White Swan are not towns or cities, they are simply a CDP (Census Designated Place) with a post office. My hometown of Langley (pop 1015) is the latest city to fall under RWC concerning State Routes (requiring a State Route to serve populations over 1000), but one has not yet been designated, instead we got a compromise, of a Signed Route, sponsored by the state, and maintained by the City and County called the "Langey Loop". No number, no assistance in maintenance, we just bought the templates from the state, and the county road shop makes them. They can't be bothered to make the signs correctly, either. They put the Arrows in the body of the sign, instead of making a standard sign, then using MUTCD approved directional arrows below, it makes it look tacky.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=47.17.001 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=47.17.001)
QuoteIf Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
MN 30 (http://www.dot.state.mn.us/maps/gdma/data/maps/city/Over5000/withMSAS/rochester3.pdf)...
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2015, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 22, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
This. How anyone can argue that Interstates and US routes don't count is silly in my view.
They are all routes... maintained by the state or a state designated entity.
Now, Indiana could cause some consternation, what with IDOT's idiotic removal of State Roads from within city limits with bypass routes, you might find an independent suburb of Indianapolis, Ft. Wayne, or Lafayette that would count.
Speedway, IN may come close, since no State Road, US Route, or Interstate enters the city, but I-465 and I-74 meet at the edge of the city limits.
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2015, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 22, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
This. How anyone can argue that Interstates and US routes don't count is silly in my view.
Eh, doesn't surprise me, the way some of us like to explore every angle of every different minutia that we can think of. It's no different than asking for the largest place with no US routes (Interstate and State routes being OK) or no Interstates (US and State routes being OK). I personally agree that it's more interesting to find the largest places with none of these types of routes, rather than just the State kind, but if the OP is specifically interested only in State routes, and you think that BS, I guess you'll just have to take it up with him. :-)
Then I guess in that case...if we're going to go to the technicality bin and discount Rochester for MN 30 clipping a couple blocks of the city limits near the airport, the undisputed winner is probably Moorhead at 40,000. (MN 336 is nearby, but fully outside the city limits)
Disputed:
Woodbury (65K; MN 95 follows the city line but never actually enters it)
Lakeville (58K; used to have decommissioned MN 50 running through it)
Quote from: TEG24601 on March 22, 2015, 04:23:07 PM
Now, Indiana could cause some consternation, what with IDOT's idiotic removal of State Roads from within city limits with bypass routes, you might find an independent suburb of Indianapolis, Ft. Wayne, or Lafayette that would count.
Minor quibble, IDOT is Illinois, InDOT is Indiana. InDOT even uses InDOT as on their trucks, items, and website (http://www.in.gov/indot/index.htm).
Quote from: empirestatebut if the OP is specifically interested only in State routes
In his reply to SPUI (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14993.msg2049690#msg2049690), he seemed to agree with the premise of state-maintained routes (i.e. including Interstates and US routes). There's enough here to where we could probably include both...largest city/town lacking a designated state route, and largest town lacking any state/US/Interstate highway.
QuoteWoodbury (65K; MN 95 follows the city line but never actually enters it)
MnDOT defines MN 95 as being in Woodbury here and not in Afton, so I'd go with Lakeville as the "largest without state route" winner, while Andover is the largest without any state-maintained route.
Quote from: empirestate on March 22, 2015, 11:01:29 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2015, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 22, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
This. How anyone can argue that Interstates and US routes don't count is silly in my view.
Eh, doesn't surprise me, the way some of us like to explore every angle of every different minutia that we can think of. It's no different than asking for the largest place with no US routes (Interstate and State routes being OK) or no Interstates (US and State routes being OK). I personally agree that it's more interesting to find the largest places with none of these types of routes, rather than just the State kind, but if the OP is specifically interested only in State routes, and you think that BS, I guess you'll just have to take it up with him. :-)
There's a difference between asking the biggest town without a U.S. Route (but state routes are okay) or asking the biggest town without a state route.
Take Forks, WA. Reasonably sized town, though smaller than many of the ones on this thread. Happened to be the first one I thought of served only by a U.S. Route. And because it's served by a U.S. Route, it already has a highway maintained by the state running through it. There's no good reason for them to sign another route just for the heck of it. It's already on the "state highway system", even if it's not part of the "system of highways signed with George Washington's head".
Whereas if we're discussing cities not on the U.S. highway system, we're typically discussing somewhat larger cities. And if I'm discussing it from the perspective of someone in Fresno, I'm whining about not being part of the national network of highways. And you could argue till you're blue in the face that 99 is an adequate substitute (and outside this hypothetical, I'd agree with you), but in the eyes of many it's not. Whereas you can't make a legitimate argument that US 101 is not an adequate substitute for a Washington's head highway to connect Forks to the rest of the state.
TL;DR: If we're discussing U.S. Routes, of course highways of a lower classification don't count. If we're discussing state routes, of course highways of a higher classification should count. (But I purposely stayed away from comparing U.S. Routes and Interstates, since I don't think anyone really agrees on how those should coexist.)
Sorry for being 2 years late, but I'm pretty sure that Connecticut has no towns without a state route, but I'll do a list of the largest towns without US Routes:
1. Waterbury (109k)
2. New Britain (73k)
3. Middletown (47k)
Now without Interstates:
1. Bristol (60k)
2. Torrington (35k)
3. Glastonbury (34k)
I'll have to scour the state for others, but here in Appleton area, the Villages of Combined Locks (3328 - 2010 USCensus) and Kimberly (6468) both have no state highways within their borders. Kimberly goes west to WI 441, but the ROW itself is in Appleton (only a very tiny part of the NB on-ramp at College Ave is in Kimberly). I also know that the Village of Shorewood Hills (Madison suburb - 1565) has no state highways within its borders. There are many other isolated little 'dot on the map' incorporated munis statewide that are also not on state highways.
Mike
Towns and similar divisions in Vermont with no state highways (with 2010 populations):
Brookline (467)
Sandgate (405)
Stannard (216)
Granby (88)
Victory (62)
Somerset (5)
Lewis (0)
Avery's Gore (0)
Warner's Grant (0)
Definitions of a State Highway for the purpose of this reply: A public way that is both numbered and signed, regardless of maintenance responsibility, excluding National Forest Highways.
Quote from: DJDBVT on July 03, 2017, 10:45:33 PM
Towns and similar divisions in Vermont with no state highways (with 2010 populations):
Brookline (467)
Sandgate (405)
Stannard (216)
Granby (88)
Victory (62)
Somerset (5)
Lewis (0)
Avery's Gore (0)
Warner's Grant (0)
Definitions of a State Highway for the purpose of this reply: A public way that is both numbered and signed, regardless of maintenance responsibility, excluding National Forest Highways.
How can you call a place a town if it has a population of 0? Wouldn't these be better termed ghost towns?
Quote from: roadguy2 on July 04, 2017, 03:18:08 AM
Quote from: DJDBVT on July 03, 2017, 10:45:33 PM
Towns and similar divisions in Vermont with no state highways (with 2010 populations):
Brookline (467)
Sandgate (405)
Stannard (216)
Granby (88)
Victory (62)
Somerset (5)
Lewis (0)
Avery's Gore (0)
Warner's Grant (0)
Definitions of a State Highway for the purpose of this reply: A public way that is both numbered and signed, regardless of maintenance responsibility, excluding National Forest Highways.
How can you call a place a town if it has a population of 0? Wouldn't these be better termed ghost towns?
Welcome to New England. While Vermont calls them towns, they have no government. NH calls these very low to not-at-all populated places townships, and the state manages their affairs.
Quote from: roadguy2 on July 04, 2017, 03:18:08 AM
How can you call a place a town if it has a population of 0? Wouldn't these be better termed ghost towns?
Somerset is the only town on the list that could conceivably be called a ghost town. A former logging town, it's peak population was just over 300 in the mid 1850s. The town once boasted several mills and railway access, all of which are long gone. There are still a number of camps and seasonal residences, and the town's single-room schoolhouse still stands. The town was disincorporated by the state in 1937. The other areas on the list with lower populations never had more than a handful of residents at any one time and were never incorporated. There are several other low- or no-population towns in the state that have a state highway within their borders.
New Berlin WI pop 40,000 just has barely one WI-59 clips the very NW corner of the city. WI-24 once served it but even then only the very SE corner. Many of the main roads aren't even county highways. That is the closest that comes to mid for a larger city in Wisconsin without a state highway.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 07, 2017, 09:37:21 PM
New Berlin WI pop 40,000 just has barely one WI-59 clips the very NW corner of the city. WI-24 once served it but even then only the very SE corner. Many of the main roads aren't even county highways. That is the closest that comes to mid for a larger city in Wisconsin without a state highway.
Isn't the entire length of WI 59's (Greenfield Ave) eastbound side in New Berlin?
Mike
Quote from: mgk920 on August 08, 2017, 11:02:51 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 07, 2017, 09:37:21 PM
New Berlin WI pop 40,000 just has barely one WI-59 clips the very NW corner of the city. WI-24 once served it but even then only the very SE corner. Many of the main roads aren't even county highways. That is the closest that comes to mid for a larger city in Wisconsin without a state highway.
Isn't the entire length of WI 59's (Greenfield Ave) eastbound side in New Berlin?
Mike
Most of Greenfield runs along the border with Brookfield Only the very western most mile west of Barker/ Johnson runs entirely within New Berlin as it dips a little farther south. Brookfield still has Capitol Dr WI-190 that runs through that city on both sides for it's whole length. Now if you go back to the early 70's County Hwy ES aka National Ave was the old WI-15 until the freeway was built which is now I-43. Although I am thinking Burlington population around 10,000 may now take the cake as to not having any state highway. Around 2010 all the state highways were removed within the city and rerouted onto the bypass which I think runs all out of the city limits.
Quote from: TEG24601 on March 22, 2015, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2015, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 22, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
This. How anyone can argue that Interstates and US routes don't count is silly in my view.
They are all routes... maintained by the state or a state designated entity.
Now, Indiana could cause some consternation, what with IDOT's idiotic removal of State Roads from within city limits with bypass routes, you might find an independent suburb of Indianapolis, Ft. Wayne, or Lafayette that would count.
Speedway, IN may come close, since no State Road, US Route, or Interstate enters the city, but I-465 and I-74 meet at the edge of the city limits.
Greenwood comes to mind. I believe it is only served by I-65 and US-31. IN-37 is too far west.
I think there are a few small incorporated towns on the Eastern Shore of Virginia that don't have any primary routes serving them (I know of Saxis and Hallwood), but I can't think of any on the mainland.
Every US Route and Interstate highway is a state road in Florida. There might be some larger CDPs, villages, or municipalities I've missed which are aligned with, but do not "cross over" a state-maintained road, but I don't count those. Many seem to border it, and then have a tiny bit of it annexed, for whatever reason.
Marco Island, Florida has 13,300 residents, but no state-maintained roads within its borders. In November 2004, FL 951 was turned over to the city, according to FDOT's straight-line diagram (http://www2.dot.state.fl.us/Straight-linesOnlineGIS/blank.aspx?docId=28105). Technically, SR 951 approaches right up to the city limits. CR 92 was FL 92, but was probably decommissioned in the 1970's SHS turnback.
Fellsmere has 5,330 residents...but somehow, uninhabited areas align themselves right up against I-95. Depends on how picky you want to be with that one.
Atlantis, which is basically a country club with about 2,050 residents, is a city and a medical center, surrounded by CR 809 (downgraded FL 809) and CR 812. It's vaguely one mile to FL 802, maybe two miles to I-95.
Center Hill has about 1000 residents, on two former state-secondary (now county roads) and is 2 miles from FL 471, 5 miles from FL 33.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington,_California
Kensington, CA one of the Bay Area largest county territories without a state route of any kind.
Quote from: bing101 on August 08, 2017, 10:31:33 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington,_California
Kensington, CA one of the Bay Area largest county territories without a state route of any kind.
Unincorporated.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 08, 2017, 11:16:37 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on March 22, 2015, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2015, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 22, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
This. How anyone can argue that Interstates and US routes don't count is silly in my view.
They are all routes... maintained by the state or a state designated entity.
Now, Indiana could cause some consternation, what with IDOT's idiotic removal of State Roads from within city limits with bypass routes, you might find an independent suburb of Indianapolis, Ft. Wayne, or Lafayette that would count.
Speedway, IN may come close, since no State Road, US Route, or Interstate enters the city, but I-465 and I-74 meet at the edge of the city limits.
Greenwood comes to mind. I believe it is only served by I-65 and US-31. IN-37 is too far west.
SR 135 goes through the west side of Greenwood.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross,_California
Ross,CA an incorporated town in Marin County has no state routes.
Broadmoor, California its entirely is surrounded by Daly City but has no state routes but it's pretty close to Ca-1 and I-280 by a few feet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadmoor,_California
Time to revive this, since I may have found a big one.
The city of Sammamish, Washington, just east of Seattle/Bellevue, is a fairly new suburb with 51,229 people and no state highways. SR 202 runs a bit north of the city limits and I-90 is a bit further south in Issaquah.
From April to June 1992, however, SR 901 was routed along the lakeshore through Sammamish (but the city wasn't incorporated for another seven years) before being decommissioned entirely.
Washington has one other suburban city that makes the cut: University Place (32,282), located just southwest of Tacoma near the Narrows Bridge.
Since a new thread of this variety was opened up and this thread was brought up I'll post here. On a somewhat local level in Fresno County California the City of Reedley is not on a state highway at about 25,000 residents. The City is served directly from CA 99 by a largely four-lane Manning Avenue.
Just did a check for Delaware and it appears that Bowers Beach is the largest town without a signed route, at 335 (bearing in mind that most towns in Delaware have very small populations due to the vast majority of the state being unincorporated).
No idea if it's the largest, but the only incorporated city/town I can think of in Georgia (well, metro Atlanta, at least) without a numbered route is Pine Lake, population 730.
https://www.sierrahealth.org/assets/images/maps/HSC-Community-Boundaries-Map.jpg
The largest municipality in Sacramento County to have no state routes is Carmichael,CA.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 08, 2017, 11:14:18 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 08, 2017, 11:02:51 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 07, 2017, 09:37:21 PM
New Berlin WI pop 40,000 just has barely one WI-59 clips the very NW corner of the city. WI-24 once served it but even then only the very SE corner. Many of the main roads aren't even county highways. That is the closest that comes to mid for a larger city in Wisconsin without a state highway.
Isn't the entire length of WI 59's (Greenfield Ave) eastbound side in New Berlin?
Mike
Most of Greenfield runs along the border with Brookfield Only the very western most mile west of Barker/ Johnson runs entirely within New Berlin as it dips a little farther south. Brookfield still has Capitol Dr WI-190 that runs through that city on both sides for it's whole length. Now if you go back to the early 70's County Hwy ES aka National Ave was the old WI-15 until the freeway was built which is now I-43. Although I am thinking Burlington population around 10,000 may now take the cake as to not having any state highway. Around 2010 all the state highways were removed within the city and rerouted onto the bypass which I think runs all out of the city limits.
I-94 and US 18 also run through Brookfield while I-43 passes through New Berlin.
In addition, the Burlington, WI bypass does enter the City of Burlington.
Mike
Quote from: geocachingpirate on March 10, 2015, 06:58:54 PM
I live in Clemmons, NC, a village of nearly 20,000 people, and realized we don't have a NC state highway in city limits. What are other large towns without a state highway? Specifically ones in your state.
Hopefully this hasn't been discussed before, or that it is simply a boring/bad topic.
https://goo.gl/maps/43u6CVa3yPM2 (https://goo.gl/maps/43u6CVa3yPM2)If we are going by the OP's criteria of no State routeshttps://goo.gl/maps/UxeN3zCZbkz (https://goo.gl/maps/UxeN3zCZbkz) https://goo.gl/maps/Guoi3gYrX5k (https://goo.gl/maps/Guoi3gYrX5k)
Benicia, CA and Vacaville, CA are the largest cities halfway from Sacramento and San Francisco has no CA state routes in their city limits and is mainly accessible by Interstates I-80, I-680, I-505, and I-780.https://goo.gl/maps/ShQSJmuvhWR2
Citrus Heights, CA has no State Routes touching its area though.
Quote from: dvferyance on August 08, 2017, 11:16:37 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on March 22, 2015, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 22, 2015, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on March 22, 2015, 09:29:25 AM
Ok people
If Interstates and U.S. Routes don't count - Rochester, MN Wins!
But I'm considering US and Interstate routes part of the state's highway system, so good luck finding an incorporated place not on a highway.
This. How anyone can argue that Interstates and US routes don't count is silly in my view.
They are all routes... maintained by the state or a state designated entity.
Now, Indiana could cause some consternation, what with IDOT's idiotic removal of State Roads from within city limits with bypass routes, you might find an independent suburb of Indianapolis, Ft. Wayne, or Lafayette that would count.
Speedway, IN may come close, since no State Road, US Route, or Interstate enters the city, but I-465 and I-74 meet at the edge of the city limits.
Greenwood comes to mind. I believe it is only served by I-65 and US-31. IN-37 is too far west.
And then there's Munster, IN, which is a suburb of Chicago, and has about 23,000 people living in it. The only reason it doesn't qualify here is because US 6, I-80, and I-94 all clip inside the northern border for a few blocks. The only direct connection to the rest of Munster is through the Calumet Avenue exit, which is technically in Hammond. US 41 goes around it, through Highland. Other than that brief half mile segment, no other routes run through Munster.
The only other one I know of around here is Flossmoor, which used to have US 54 in it. That was removed, and no routes currently exist within its borders.
I'm sure there must be a few in the K.C. metro area and perhaps Richie would know more about those.
There's a few decent-sized towns in south-central Kansas near Wichita that don't have any state highways going through them. Clearwater (Pop. 2,481), Valley Center (6,822), and Sedgwick (1,695) are among them. Buhler (1,327) is close to Hutchinson.
Vinalhaven (population 1,165) is the largest town in Maine without a state highway. The town is located on an island of the same name roughly 9-10 miles off the coast east of Rockland, so no road bridge to the mainland for a state route to connect to. Maine is generally good about connecting its towns with the state highway system. Minus the island communities and small plantations up in the North Woods, I can't think of any towns in the state not covered.
The largest cities in Utah currently without a state-maintained route are Ivins and Santa Clara, with 2017 populations of 8,726 and 7,418. Both are suburbs of St. George and are some of the fastest-growing municipalities in the state.
It should be noted that Ivins had SR-300 until around 1999, and both cities are served by the old alignment of US-91 (Sunset Blvd) which is no longer state-maintained. Despite what you might see on some maps, SR-8 ends at Dixie Drive, which is still within the city limits of St George.