When do you think Wisconsin will convert the remaining expressway portions of US 41 from Abrams to Oconto bypass and from the Oconto bypass to the Peshtigo bypass to freeway? WisDOT has plans in the 2030 connections to possibly do that, but we'll see. Doing so would make US 41 a full freeway for basically it's entire length in Wisconsin. They also say something about converting to freeway between Peshtigo and Marinette, but I doubt that ever happens.
http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/state/docs/corridor-peshtigo.pdf (http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/state/docs/corridor-peshtigo.pdf)
Did U.S 41 really need to be four lanes to begin with north of Abrams? It doesn't seem to carry a huge amount of traffic (compared to the corridor south of Abrams), but maybe I'm wrong.
I believe you just answered your own question.
in other words - they won't
The old two-lane US 41 through there was nasty. The current four-lanes 'expressway' should be sufficient for the foreseeable future, although I can see the part between US 141 (Abrams Interchange) and Oconto being upgraded in the 20-30 year future. That part has only a few crossroads and driveway entrances that can all be easily eliminated.
Anything beyond Peshtigo will have to wait until MDOT finally decides that it is time to bypass Menominee. However, when that time does come, most of the current four lanes that would not be bypassed between Peshtigo and Marinette should provide few difficulties in upgrading.
Mike
The expressway was a good idea, but I'm not sure full blown freeway is needed, at least at this time.
A Menomin-ette bypass is going to have a fun time finding a place to cross the Menominee River that's not way, way out of town.
I think most Michiganders would agree their state should spend money on something other than building freeways in the UP.
Related topic; and I'm honestly asking this:
Why does US 41 head straight north from Menominee instead of following M-35 to Escanaba? Clearly M-35 is the faster route.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 22, 2015, 09:51:46 AM
A Menomin-ette bypass is going to have a fun time finding a place to cross the Menominee River that's not way, way out of town.
I think most Michiganders would agree their state should spend money on something other than building freeways in the UP.
Related topic; and I'm honestly asking this:
Why does US 41 head straight north from Menominee instead of following M-35 to Escanaba? Clearly M-35 is the faster route.
From Chris Bessert's Michigan Highways page:
"When examining a highway map of the Upper Peninsula, one might wonder just why US-41 "tees" into US-2 from the south at Powers instead of running directly between Menominee and Escanaba. In the 1920s and even into the 1930s, the State Highway Department had long-range plans to continue US-41 directly north of US-2 at Powers on new alignment through northern Menominee and southern Marquette Cos to the Gwinn area, then northerly via the present-day M-553 corridor into Marquette. Thus, the "eastern detour" through Escanaba, Gladstone and Rapid River was intended as a temporary routing which became the permanent route when the Powers-to-Marquette route was never built."
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 22, 2015, 09:51:46 AM
A Menomin-ette bypass is going to have a fun time finding a place to cross the Menominee River that's not way, way out of town.
I think most Michiganders would agree their state should spend money on something other than building freeways in the UP.
Related topic; and I'm honestly asking this:
Why does US 41 head straight north from Menominee instead of following M-35 to Escanaba? Clearly M-35 is the faster route.
I highly doubt there will ever be an Marinette/Menominee bypass, it really isn't needed. The only improvements I see to U.S 41 is converting the remaining expressway sections to freeway between Abrams and Peshtigo. I was only wondering if anyone knew if Wisconsin had a committed timetable, or is it like the last U.S 51 expressway section between Merrill and Tomahawk where it is mapped for freeway, but there is no committed timetable for conversion.
The upgrades to US-141 north of Abrams were similarly necessary. There were lots of small towns bunching up traffic, few passing zones, and no opportunities to pass due to the traffic.
I don't see that same level of traffic on the current 2-lane sections of US-41, US-141, or M-35, and there's not much value in extending I-41 or I-43 northward unless they're going to reach the Iron Mountain or Escanaba areas. Michigan has been very good about providing passing lanes to break up the long trains of cars, something that made US-141 awful prior to the 4-lane widening.
There's no committed timetable to future US-41 or US-141 upgrades. WisDOT will spot upgrade areas where its warranted. As for a Menominee/Marinette bypass or a Iron Mountain/Kingsford/Niagara bypass, that ball's in MDOT's court. Traffic congestion is not really an issue in either community.
I see WisDOT upgrading US-41 north of Abrams within 10 years of never. ;-)
Seriously, there is nothing in historical or projected counts that would warrant it. The areas that the road reaches aren't high-growth areas. As Mike stated, the upgrade to four lanes was desperately needed due to the combination of traffic count and road geometry. WisDOT just isn't in a hurry to upgrade expressways to freeways just because they can.
Quote from: GeekJedi on March 22, 2015, 03:37:43 PM
I see WisDOT upgrading US-41 north of Abrams within 10 years of never. ;-)
Seriously, there is nothing in historical or projected counts that would warrant it. The areas that the road reaches aren't high-growth areas. As Mike stated, the upgrade to four lanes was desperately needed due to the combination of traffic count and road geometry. WisDOT just isn't in a hurry to upgrade expressways to freeways just because they can.
Right now it is not needed, but someday it may be, and WisDOT does have it in their long range plans to convert the expressway between Abrams and Oconto and Oconto and Peshtigo to freeway. It would not be terribly difficult to do so, especially between Abrams and Oconto; there are not many intersecting roads. I could see two or three interchanges at the most being constructed along the entire segment (one between Abrams and Oconto and two between Oconto and Peshtigo). It would mostly be frontage roads that would be the main cost.
So they should someday (and they probably will), but it is by no means a high priority. WisDOT needs to focus right now on rebuilding the existing freeway segments of U.S 41/I-41. Most, if not all of the roadway between Green Bay and Milwaukee that has not already been rebuilt/widened will need to be within the next 20 years (particularly the sections just north of Milwaukee, around Fond Du Lac and between Green Bay and Appleton).
Quote from: JREwing78 on March 22, 2015, 02:55:21 PM
The upgrades to US-141 north of Abrams were similarly necessary. There were lots of small towns bunching up traffic, few passing zones, and no opportunities to pass due to the traffic.
There's no committed timetable to future US-41 or US-141 upgrades. WisDOT will spot upgrade areas where its warranted.
WisDOT has projects coming up north of Pound on US-141 that will add passing lanes up to Wauksaukee. The section from the end of the 4 lane to Middle Inlet will be done this year.
As for freeway conversion of US-41 north of Abrams or an extension of the 4 lane expressway north of Pound on US-141 don't expect it to happen. Both states have a long list of backlogged projects and these would be near the bottom.
Quote from: Roadguy on March 22, 2015, 08:16:20 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on March 22, 2015, 02:55:21 PM
The upgrades to US-141 north of Abrams were similarly necessary. There were lots of small towns bunching up traffic, few passing zones, and no opportunities to pass due to the traffic.
There's no committed timetable to future US-41 or US-141 upgrades. WisDOT will spot upgrade areas where its warranted.
WisDOT has projects coming up north of Pound on US-141 that will add passing lanes up to Wauksaukee. The section from the end of the 4 lane to Middle Inlet will be done this year.
As for freeway conversion of US-41 north of Abrams or an extension of the 4 lane expressway north of Pound on US-141 don't expect it to happen. Both states have a long list of backlogged projects and these would be near the bottom.
U.S 141 doesn't need any more capacity north of Pound. WisDOT long range plans has the expressway extending north to Crivitz eventually, but I don't think that's needed. Other than freeway conversion on U.S 41 between Abrams and Peshtigo, everything else in northeastern Wisconsin is fine as it is.
Quote from: adamlanfort on March 22, 2015, 02:29:07 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 22, 2015, 09:51:46 AM
A Menomin-ette bypass is going to have a fun time finding a place to cross the Menominee River that's not way, way out of town.
I think most Michiganders would agree their state should spend money on something other than building freeways in the UP.
Related topic; and I'm honestly asking this:
Why does US 41 head straight north from Menominee instead of following M-35 to Escanaba? Clearly M-35 is the faster route.
I highly doubt there will ever be an Marinette/Menominee bypass, it really isn't needed. The only improvements I see to U.S 41 is converting the remaining expressway sections to freeway between Abrams and Peshtigo. I was only wondering if anyone knew if Wisconsin had a committed timetable, or is it like the last U.S 51 expressway section between Merrill and Tomahawk where it is mapped for freeway, but there is no committed timetable for conversion.
I could be mistaken, having only recently traveled through Marinette/Menominee during the holidays, though the truck traffic was very dense. If not a bypass, I do think there could be some strategic planning to be done to calm the traffic or divert it. The lack of turning arrows on the Michigan side can be a headache with any traffic.
Quote from: adamlanfort on March 22, 2015, 03:53:50 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on March 22, 2015, 03:37:43 PM
I see WisDOT upgrading US-41 north of Abrams within 10 years of never. ;-)
Seriously, there is nothing in historical or projected counts that would warrant it. The areas that the road reaches aren't high-growth areas. As Mike stated, the upgrade to four lanes was desperately needed due to the combination of traffic count and road geometry. WisDOT just isn't in a hurry to upgrade expressways to freeways just because they can.
Right now it is not needed, but someday it may be, and WisDOT does have it in their long range plans to convert the expressway between Abrams and Oconto and Oconto and Peshtigo to freeway.
They also had in their plans to "cut the corner" of WI-16 between Watertown and Columbus for many years. It was recently removed.
Just because they have it in their plans, doesn't mean that it will happen...
Quote from: GeekJedi on March 23, 2015, 09:44:36 PM
Quote from: adamlanfort on March 22, 2015, 03:53:50 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on March 22, 2015, 03:37:43 PM
I see WisDOT upgrading US-41 north of Abrams within 10 years of never. ;-)
Seriously, there is nothing in historical or projected counts that would warrant it. The areas that the road reaches aren't high-growth areas. As Mike stated, the upgrade to four lanes was desperately needed due to the combination of traffic count and road geometry. WisDOT just isn't in a hurry to upgrade expressways to freeways just because they can.
Right now it is not needed, but someday it may be, and WisDOT does have it in their long range plans to convert the expressway between Abrams and Oconto and Oconto and Peshtigo to freeway.
They also had in their plans to "cut the corner" of WI-16 between Watertown and Columbus for many years. It was recently removed.
Just because they have it in their plans, doesn't mean that it will happen...
They will, but it probably won't be for a while. US 41 is a major corridor and a backbone route in the 2030 plan (even the portion between Abrams and Peshtigo). Eventually, they'll probably want to convert the remaining expressway portions between Abrams and Peshtigo to make US 41 a continuous freeway and for safety reasons.
OK, let me rephrase - it won't be in any of our lifetimes...
Quote from: adamlanfort on March 23, 2015, 11:12:25 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on March 23, 2015, 09:44:36 PM
Quote from: adamlanfort on March 22, 2015, 03:53:50 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on March 22, 2015, 03:37:43 PM
I see WisDOT upgrading US-41 north of Abrams within 10 years of never. ;-)
Seriously, there is nothing in historical or projected counts that would warrant it. The areas that the road reaches aren't high-growth areas. As Mike stated, the upgrade to four lanes was desperately needed due to the combination of traffic count and road geometry. WisDOT just isn't in a hurry to upgrade expressways to freeways just because they can.
Right now it is not needed, but someday it may be, and WisDOT does have it in their long range plans to convert the expressway between Abrams and Oconto and Oconto and Peshtigo to freeway.
They also had in their plans to "cut the corner" of WI-16 between Watertown and Columbus for many years. It was recently removed.
Just because they have it in their plans, doesn't mean that it will happen...
They will, but it probably won't be for a while. US 41 is a major corridor and a backbone route in the 2030 plan (even the portion between Abrams and Peshtigo). Eventually, they'll probably want to convert the remaining expressway portions between Abrams and Peshtigo to make US 41 a continuous freeway and for safety reasons.
Unless there are a rash of accidents cause by expressway features, at 10,000+ vehicles per day, the current arrangement is more than satisfactory. And its not as though there is a lot of growth occurring in that part of the state either.
You could grow the traffic by 50% and the current arrangement would be fine.
IMO, MDOT doesn't like to do major construction outside of Detroit, Grand Rapids, Lansing, Kalamazoo, and Flint
A Menom-Marinette Bypass would make sense if it is built as a super 2. Something like this. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2Fmarinette-menom%2520bypass_zpsgjw9wmh5.png&hash=2fb9454f8cf3e95ebce702d99356f3cb60028ab7) (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/hobsini2/media/marinette-menom%20bypass_zpsgjw9wmh5.png.html)
Quote from: hobsini2 on April 13, 2015, 09:06:25 PM
A Menom-Marinette Bypass would make sense if it is built as a super 2. Something like this. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2Fmarinette-menom%2520bypass_zpsgjw9wmh5.png&hash=2fb9454f8cf3e95ebce702d99356f3cb60028ab7) (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/hobsini2/media/marinette-menom%20bypass_zpsgjw9wmh5.png.html)
They won't do that. It's not needed and it would be very environmentally costly.