One thing that peeved me off whenever I used to drive down I-77 and the Innerbelt (I-90) throughout Downtown Cleveland is that ODOT liked to sign exits with their street name but NOT include the Official State or US Route Number designation.
Examples:
I-90 (Innerbelt)
- Superior Avenue: Only denotes US 6 at the end of the off-ramps and not on the BGSs.
- Chester Avenue: No Mention of US 322, nor when going East on I-90 that you can only go right (East) on
Chester/US-322 at the end of the ramp.
I-77
- Woodland/Orange Avenue: No mention of US-422 or SR 8.
I only bring these up since those who may not be familiar with the street names of Downtown Cleveland, and/or maybe have sub-par maps that only show route numbers, can totally miss their exit, and could have a helluva time finding their way back due to the numerous partial interchanges in the area. Yet ODOT seems to have no trouble signing exits with their corresponding route numbers everywhere else in Northeast Ohio, with the exception of further south of Downtown on I-77, where the only mention of the I-77/SR-21 Multiplex through Summit County is on reassurance shield sets and not on any BGSs.
Are state DOTs mandated to include corresponding route numbers on BGSs for exits, if the street is also an official State or US highway?
Aren't State & US Highways Shields supposed to have priority over street names for exits if is indeed a routed highway?
Are there any other cities, interstates, etc,... that fail to denote the Route number at an exit?
I hope this makes sense.
No Virginia state highways are signed from I-264 in Norfolk or Virginia Beach.
If memory serves, I believe the MUTCD indicates that the route number should be included on the guide signs when the cross-street has a route number.
In Michigan, the only instances I know of routes not being signed at exits are business loops in the "wrong" direction. For example, Exit 87 on US-131 is signed as "BUSINESS 131/Leonard St" southbound but just "Leonard St" northbound. MDOT's logic here is "If you're heading north, why would you take the business route back south?"
MDOT is more likely to "over-sign" routes than not sign them. See: M-45 and M-121 East and West being signed from I-196. Neither highway actually extends east of I-196 (though M-45 used to).
Nevada DOT does this all the time.
Most "primary" state routes (100-400 series) are signed from adjacent freeways and highways, especially in rural areas. However, there are some primary routes that are not signed on urban freeways. Many "secondary" state routes (700-800 series) are signed on rural interstates and highways, but not in urban areas.
Most urban (500-600 series) state routes are not signed from freeways...I think SR 564 in Henderson is the only one that is prominently signed. The urban routes are arterial roadways which are better known by their street name, are often only state highways for a small portion of their length, and are inconsistently signed by NDOT anyway. As such, having these shields on freeway signs doesn't really aid in navigation.
Generally, in urban areas, the intersecting state route is only signed from a freeway if that state route actually goes somewhere outside the urban area.
What does bug me is that NDOT doesn't always sign the business routes from its freeways. In many cases, the business route is only partially maintained by the state, and isn't signed consistently by either NDOT or the city. This irks me because several map sources show these business routes and travelers may be confused when trying to navigate by these routes.
---
To answer some of the other questions posed:
There's no requirement I'm aware of that mandates that intersecting route shields must be shown...it is done for purposes of route guidance. It's generally up to the state DOT to determine the proper route guidance.
State/US highways don't necessarily have "priority" over street names. It is generally preferable to show the route shield and any relevant control cities rather than a street names, as this aids in long-distance navigation. However, in urban situations, I believe most people (especially non-roadgeeks) navigate by street name.
In NY I've found that county routes are rarely signed from freeways - I-81 intersects many, but signs none of them. And I-87 does not have signage for I-587.
Until just recently, Alabama did not sign their county roads from the exits. Although I can think of a few state and US omissions:
I-65:
The interchange for University Blvd does not mention AL 149 Northbound, if you take the exit you will find a North AL 149 reassurance shield near 11th Street
The interchange for 3rd Ave N in Birmingham does not mention US 78 which is cosigned along US 11 in this area.
The interchange for I-565 has no mention of Alt US 72
I-20/59
The interchange with US 78 (exit 123) does not mention AL 5 (AL 5 is also omitted at US 78 interchange with Corridor X near Graysville)
US 31/280
The interchange with 8th Ave S (University Blvd) does not mention AL 149. If on northbound 31/280 you take that exit and make a right, you will find the first reassurance shield for AL 149 under the overpass.
I think the greater point is that signed routes should exist as navigational aides to drivers. If the route doesn't go anywhere interesting, why sign it at all?
Some states & counties tend to route signs as an inventory number, which IMO misses the point. Keep those routes secret.
Also, this came up in the 'fictional highway' section, but there are long stretches of US routes which are essentially pointless and only exist for continuity purposes. So it doesn't surprise me when they aren't signed; the DOTs are likely only keeping them around because of local politics or because AASHTO is making them.
AASHTO doesn't have any enforcement capability, so you can rule that out as a reason.
Kansas tends to go exactly in the OTHER direction: On the median next-three-exits signs, if it carries a route number, there will just be a shield there. No name. So you'll get something like
| Shawnee Dr | 1/2 |
| Metropolitan Ave. | 1 |
| (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F0%2F0d%2FK-32.svg%2F20px-K-32.svg.png&hash=a02693f8bdc26fc534cb63ed4f6758b3a6591b23) | 2 |
Looking for the Kansas Avenue exit? Sucks to be you if you don't know it's also K-32! "Kansas Avenue" only appears when you get close enough for standard advance exit signage to be posted.
Quote..."Kansas Avenue" only appears when you get close enough for standard advance exit signage to be posted.
Well at least it is signed. MA does the same thing on those far-advance guide signs (I've noticed it on I-495), but as in your case the standard overhead BGS's do name the street in advance of the exit, and that should be sufficient warning.
Quote from: getemngo on August 22, 2009, 09:34:30 PM
In Michigan, the only instances I know of routes not being signed at exits are business loops in the "wrong" direction. For example, Exit 87 on US-131 is signed as "BUSINESS 131/Leonard St" southbound but just "Leonard St" northbound. MDOT's logic here is "If you're heading north, why would you take the business route back south?"
MDOT is more likely to "over-sign" routes than not sign them. See: M-45 and M-121 East and West being signed from I-196. Neither highway actually extends east of I-196 (though M-45 used to).
Speaking of Bus 131, when they reconstructed and moved the ramps along NB US-131, the project was completed well ahead of schedule apparently catching MDOT off guard. The ramp was open for several weeks before any signage existed.
For the longest time, M-85 Fort street north of Schaefer Hwy was resigned, but MDOT never put signs up. It was only until they replaced all the signs along I-75 with clearview ones did we see it signed.
From my experiences, it varies from state to state and city to city. Some places are very consistent with acknowledging their surface routed U.S. and state highways on freeway signage, while others are awful about it.
The original Interstate 110 signage in Pensacola omitted both Florida 295 and 296 for Exits 4 and 5 respectively. During the multi-year project to widen and reconfigure some of the interchanges, the exits were resigned with overhead assemblies. I wrote to the project website and suggested adding the missing state road shields on new signage and surprisingly they agreed and now both are acknowledged.
A similar thing happened when Florida 281 Toll was signed and built across the bay in the form of the Garcon Point Bridge. The original signage for Exit 22 (then Exit 7) displayed just "Avalon Boulevard". New signs display "FL 281 north / FL 281 Toll south". A remnant of the old exit destination is still in place along westbound I-10 in the form of a mileage signing listing the exit still as "Avalon Boulevard".
When DelDOT redid signage along Interstate 95 in the 1990s, Delaware 58 was finally added to Exit 4B along southbound. The original signage displayed just "Delaware 7 north". Unfortunately any new signage added in that state now is always a direct carbon copy, so had Delaware 58 was still not recognized, it would remain so in new sign replacements.
In Rochester, I noticed that on Interstate 490 west, the exit for Clinton Avenue (https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/new_york400/i-490_wb_exit_016_03.jpg) does not acknowledge New York 15 north. Granted the state route ends just north of the off-ramp, but it does connect with New York 31, which is equally ignored. New York 31 is signed in the eastbound direction (https://www.aaroads.com/northeast/new_york400/i-490_eb_exit_018_01.jpg) at its direct off-ramp however.
In California, County Routes are always ignored on freeway exit signage outside of either a pentagon posted below the sign or a small "County Route xx Next Exit" assembly with a pentagon and companion blue sign.
We do a pretty good job of signing routes down here, but they omit FL 426 on I-4. And none of the 4-di county routes are signed in Volusia County.
S.R. 54 is omitted from the overhead University Avenue gantries along I-75/85. S.R. 54's northern terminus is I-75/85.
S.R. 6 West is omitted from the BGSs along I-85. GDOT has installed shoulder-mounted highway signs on I-85 northbound for S.R. 6 West. There's no signage for S.R. 6 West on I-85 South. S.R. 6 East ends at I-85 & the Atlanta Airport.
S.R. 3 is omitted from the BGSs on I-285 for Cobb Pkwy. SE; S.R. 166 for Perkerson Rd. SW and Lakewood Ave. SW and Tara Blvd./Old Dixie Rd.
S.R. 14 is omitted from the BGSs on the S.R. 14 Conn. West and U.S. 29 Alt. East/S.R. 14 Alt. East (S. Fulton Pkwy.) for U.S. 29; I-85 for the two U.S. 29 exits in southwest Metro Atlanta exurbs -- Grantville and Greenville/Moreland.
Be well,
Bryant
California can be quirky: I know Route 123 is not signed well off of I-80 (or I-580) in the East Bay, while Route 16 is signed on the specific gantries for Power Inn/Howe on US 50 here in Sacramento, but not on the next-three-exits signs.
Also, US 50's status in signage is strange enough between I-80 and Route 99 - generally it is only ever acknowledged going eastbound (with Business 80 standalone as the signed route westbound, including 90% of onramps) despite the fact both US 50 and Business 80 run together in both directions from West Sacramento to the Route 99 interchange.
Westbound I-80 is not signed at all on BGSs between the Bay Bridge and US 101, instead being signed as the exit for US 101 South (which the Skyway lanes seamlessly transition into, at the junction with the Central Freeway). While this isn't too uncommon between the penultimate exit and a terminus for routes in California, this goes on for about three or four exits.
S.R. 13 isn't signed on I-285. U.S. 23/Buford Hwy. is, however. Buford Hwy. starts out as S.R. 13 at Peachtree/W. Peachtree Sts.
S.R. 6 also isn't signed on I-285. Exit 2 is only signed as Camp Crk. Pkwy. (Atl. Airport).
S.R. 8 isn't signed on I-285 at U.S. 78/278 (Hollowell Pkwy.) or at U.S. 29 (Lawrenceville Hwy.).
If memory serves, S.R. 10 isn't signed on I-285 @ the U.S. 78/Stone Mtn. Fwy. exit.
Be well,
Bryant
Forgot an obvious one in the Bay Area - on I-280 northbound past San Jose Avenue, the very first next-three-exits sign afterward mentions "Bayshore Freeway", but NOT US 101!
Another Bay Area state highway missing-in-action is CA 262 - Mission Boulevard between I-880 and I-680 in Fremont. I don't believe that the route is signed on Mission Boulevard itself, and from each end, it's primarily signed as "TO" the other freeway -- TO I-880 or TO I-680. A few years ago, Caltrans added BGSs along southbound I-880 that do include CA 262 shields, but that's the only evidence of the route's existence! :eyebrow:
when I last looked, in 2006, there was at least one BGS for 262 on I-680. It was northbound, with distances to three exits. It listed Mission Boulevard 262 as well as Mission Boulevard 238 (both are segments of old CA-17 that were bypassed by freeways). Honestly, I cannot remember if there was one southbound. I have not driven that section of 680 since, so I have no idea what is there now.
I have never seen a free-standing 262 shield.
Quotewhen I last looked, in 2006, there was at least one BGS for 262 on I-680.
You're right -- I meant that the sign with the CA 262 shield was on I-680, not I-880. :banghead: :pan:
I-24 in Nashville at the James Robertson Pkwy exit. No sign for US 41/US 431/US 31E and US 31W.
In Louisville, EB I-64 exit for Story Ave does not indicate that Story is also US 42/60. The corresponding WB exit for Mellwood Ave does include US 42/60.
The NB I-65 exit for Broadway & Chestnut does not indicate that Broadway is US 150.
Good grief, this is an 11-year-old thread.
This particular one is a perfectly reasonable thread bump.
Quote from: WillWeaverRVA on November 04, 2020, 03:50:00 PM
Good grief, this is an 11-year-old thread.
Uh oh, the forum is gonna become toxic and lose all of its users :rolleyes:
Exit 1E in Milwaukee off I-794: Signed for Milwaukee St/Downtown. Milwaukee St is WI 32 at this interchange
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0361378,-87.9032171,3a,68.7y,269.35h,88.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq_ICdya2YQi8gv11RfoYpw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Missouri does this a few times in the St. Louis area:
* Salisbury Street at I-70: (https://goo.gl/maps/BuCPHGUWc2FG5kS67) There are more signs for IL 3 across the river than MO 115. (https://goo.gl/maps/U9BsMCoz1VRQZ2yQ9)
* I-70 at Adelaid Avenue: (https://goo.gl/maps/iGTs8CzsbGWqUzHx6) No mention of Rte H (https://goo.gl/maps/H1SNVgZDNmMagBso9)
* I-70 at Riverview: (https://goo.gl/maps/zpacuhMZ2TRYdZLQ9) No mention of MO 367 (https://goo.gl/maps/iFUSQrmJz6VZhnit5)
* I-270 at Riverview: (https://goo.gl/maps/WmoorCFrgsve4MiL7) No mention of Rte H (https://goo.gl/maps/CSo1Ru1MXmSmEqwf7)
* I-55 at Gravois did not use to mention MO 30 (https://goo.gl/maps/i1VrRg9xJaT9tdM89)
Quote from: Hellfighter on August 23, 2009, 12:03:39 PM
For the longest time, M-85 Fort street north of Schaefer Hwy was resigned, but MDOT never put signs up. It was only until they replaced all the signs along I-75 with clearview ones did we see it signed.
That seems to be common for Michigan. When M-311 was designated in 1998, no signage was posted on I-94 until that stretch of freeway had a routine sign replacement project several years later. In Detroit, M-8 (Davison Avenue) and M-5 (Grand River Avenue) are not signed on I-96, and M-5 also is not signed on I-75, and they may not be until sign replacement projects along those freeways.
I wonder if the signs on US-131 at exits 49 (M-89) and 38 have been updated to reflect the rerouting of M-43 to the north and west of Kalamazoo, or will that also be delayed until the whole freeway gets new signs.
EDIT 11/08: I drove out to Kalamazoo yesterday and was pleasantly surprised to see that BGSs on US-131 have been updated with overlays or greenout to reflect the new M-43 routing and decommissioning of BL I-94 and BL US-131 (although they missed greening out the BL I-94 shields on eastbound I-94 signs at US-131).
St. Paul: I-94 EB exit to 7th St is unsigned for MN 5; the EB exit to Mounds Blvd is unsigned for US 61 northbound.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 23, 2009, 06:29:35 AM
Kansas tends to go exactly in the OTHER direction: On the median next-three-exits signs, if it carries a route number, there will just be a shield there. No name. So you'll get something like
| Shawnee Dr | 1/2 |
| Metropolitan Ave. | 1 |
| (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F0%2F0d%2FK-32.svg%2F20px-K-32.svg.png&hash=a02693f8bdc26fc534cb63ed4f6758b3a6591b23) | 2 |
Looking for the Kansas Avenue exit? Sucks to be you if you don't know it's also K-32! "Kansas Avenue" only appears when you get close enough for standard advance exit signage to be posted.
A couple of counter-examples, though.
KDOT (unless these happen to be city installatons): https://goo.gl/maps/aq5U9sUwpvS1vZ9S9 , https://goo.gl/maps/Ak6GzZz8dPJPTW8q6
KTA: https://goo.gl/maps/Y5mvJXRnyajqeuGt8 , https://goo.gl/maps/JA82Wp917NCRSjzGA
But I agree with your point that this is a bit confusing if you're looking for Leavenworth Road and aren't used to calling it K-5: https://goo.gl/maps/e9MVPJEHeExEPZVq6