I have heard some stories about gas stations in the US. Is it true that most of them do not have self-service, but that some employee of the gas station fills up for you? Because this is very uncommon in Europe, where virtually all gas stations are self-service or even automated where you pay at a machine. (no staff).
Also interesting is the price difference between cash payments, and payments with a credit card. We don't have that either in Euroland, it's all the same, whether you pay with cash, debit card or credit card.
Another interesting observation is that along freeways, gas stations are almost always located off the freeway, near an exit. In Europe, those are nearly always directly along freeways. Germany has both, a network of freeway gas stations + off freeway "Autohof" which are truckstops. But trucks can fuel up directly along freeways too. Scandinavia often has gas stations like in the U.S.; located near an exit (usually with additional services like a garage, shopping etc.)
The last question is, do all gas stations also sell diesel? Or do you need to go to a truckstop for that? I figured that diesel isn't very popular in the U.S., and some gas station may not offer it.
QuoteI have heard some stories about gas stations in the US. Is it true that most of them do not have self-service, but that some employee of the gas station fills up for you? Because this is very uncommon in Europe, where virtually all gas stations are self-service or even automated where you pay at a machine. (no staff).
Maybe some states but full-service in Texas in rare
QuoteAlso interesting is the price difference between cash payments, and payments with a credit card. We don't have that either in Euroland, it's all the same, whether you pay with cash, debit card or credit card.
Yeah on I-20 in North Texas there's a Love's Country Store with a huge electronic sign that goes back and forth from Cash to Credit
QuoteAnother interesting observation is that along freeways, gas stations are almost always located off the freeway, near an exit. In Europe, those are nearly always directly along freeways. Germany has both, a network of freeway gas stations + off freeway "Autohof" which are truckstops. But trucks can fuel up directly along freeways too. Scandinavia often has gas stations like in the U.S.; located near an exit (usually with additional services like a garage, shopping etc.)
Yep on divided highways there off the highway at the corner of the frontage road and the road that goes over the highway
quote]
QuoteThe last question is, do all gas stations also sell diesel? Or do you need to go to a truckstop for that? I figured that diesel isn't very popular in the U.S., and some gas station may not offer it.
Most in Texas do.
gas stations are always at an exit in the US. You take the exit, and at the crossing street are the services. Gas, fast food, motel, etc.
the only exception to this is on toll roads, which have explicit service plazas. From there, you can only return to the toll road, as opposed to getting off. There are no tollbooths to pay the toll on. These service plazas have a visitor's center, gas stations, fast food, but no motels.
Quote from: Chris on August 23, 2009, 04:15:19 PMI have heard some stories about gas stations in the US. Is it true that most of them do not have self-service, but that some employee of the gas station fills up for you? Because this is very uncommon in Europe, where virtually all gas stations are self-service or even automated where you pay at a machine. (no staff).
Oregon and New Jersey are the only states that I know of where self-serve is prohibited. Everywhere else it varies by station, with some providing "mini-serve" where part is self and other is full.
Quote from: Chris on August 23, 2009, 04:15:19 PMAlso interesting is the price difference between cash payments, and payments with a credit card. We don't have that either in Euroland, it's all the same, whether you pay with cash, debit card or credit card.
I have found very few stations near me that provide a discount for cash, and the ones that do are usually "mom and pop" stations. The branded stations like BP, Exxon, Sheetz, GetGo, Shell, etc. have no such disparity.
Quote from: Chris on August 23, 2009, 04:15:19 PMAnother interesting observation is that along freeways, gas stations are almost always located off the freeway, near an exit. In Europe, those are nearly always directly along freeways. Germany has both, a network of freeway gas stations + off freeway "Autohof" which are truckstops. But trucks can fuel up directly along freeways too. Scandinavia often has gas stations like in the U.S.; located near an exit (usually with additional services like a garage, shopping etc.)
The only places where you'll find service plazas on limited-access roadways are the Pennsylvania Turnpike, New Jersey Turnpike, New York State Thruway, etc.
Quote from: Chris on August 23, 2009, 04:15:19 PMThe last question is, do all gas stations also sell diesel? Or do you need to go to a truckstop for that? I figured that diesel isn't very popular in the U.S., and some gas station may not offer it.
No. The stations that do usually have a sign or indicate the price on the board near the road with the other grades, but the best location to find diesel is a truck stop.
I hardly ever see full-serve these days, though gas stations in several states do have a sticker on the pump that says "if you are disabled, please push this button and an attendant will pump the gas for you for free".
as for Oregon and New Jersey - it's always a hassle to attempt to pump my own gas, but usually I'm successful.
Quote from: Chris on August 23, 2009, 04:15:19 PM
I have heard some stories about gas stations in the US. Is it true that most of them do not have self-service, but that some employee of the gas station fills up for you? Because this is very uncommon in Europe, where virtually all gas stations are self-service or even automated where you pay at a machine. (no staff).
As mentioned previously, gas stations in Oregon and New Jersey have attendants that pump gas for you, which is required according to their state laws. In my experience, most gas stations are primarily self-serve. Full-service seems to have largely gone by the wayside, in a similar trend of having minor auto repair shops incorporated in gas station/convenience store establishments.
There are comparatively few public locations that are completely automatic with no attendant or adjacent convenience store present. Most of the ones that are automatic are generally associated warehouse stores (such as Costco or Sam's Club)--these are always next to the store, and may have an attendant to help with problems but not to take money or pump gas for you. Other automatic locations are not generally open to the general public, existing to serve primarily fleet clients.
Quote from: Chris
Also interesting is the price difference between cash payments, and payments with a credit card. We don't have that either in Euroland, it's all the same, whether you pay with cash, debit card or credit card.
In my experience, the cash price difference tends to be around 4 or 5 cents per gallon lower than the debit/credit price, and is usually not more than 10 cents. The cash discount is usually employed by independent/non-chain stations as a cost-cutting measure. When the customer uses a credit card for the transaction, the station is charged for the credit transaction (which can be a flat rate or a percentage of the total purchase). This transaction fee cuts into the bottom line of these independent operators, so offering a cash discount is one way to make up for that.
Quote from: Chris
The last question is, do all gas stations also sell diesel? Or do you need to go to a truckstop for that? I figured that diesel isn't very popular in the U.S., and some gas station may not offer it.
Not all gasoline stations sell diesel. Those stations that do are usually major chains (Texaco, Shell, Chevron, etc.) and usually have only a small number of fueling stations (maybe 10%) with diesel pumps.
There's only one station I've ever seen personally with separate prices for cash and credit, and it was a Texaco.
And the only station around here with full service is a BP, and only one island is full service, the others are self-serve.
As for the New Jersey hassle--that's why you fill up before you cross the state line. :-D
I can still find gas stations with repair facilities without too much difficulty. Usually in a rural area, any exit that has gas stations will have at least two or three (gotta give competition!) and one of them will be a garage. This is a Good Thing if one's car starts experiencing problems... or if you need a new tire quickly!
Another reason for the cash discount is because cash customers have to pay inside, so they're more likely to see something inside (food, drink) to add to their purchase.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 23, 2009, 06:55:19 PM
I can still find gas stations with repair facilities without too much difficulty. Usually in a rural area, any exit that has gas stations will have at least two or three (gotta give competition!) and one of them will be a garage. This is a Good Thing if one's car starts experiencing problems... or if you need a new tire quickly!
Lebo, Kansas is such a town. Van was overheating...they fixed it within 3 hours (even with a part needing to be brought from Emporia), let us wander around the garage while they did so, and even watered the dog for us!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 23, 2009, 05:18:37 PM
I hardly ever see full-serve these days, though gas stations in several states do have a sticker on the pump that says "if you are disabled, please push this button and an attendant will pump the gas for you for free".
That's because in most states it's the law that they MUST pump fuel for someone with a handicap placard (except at 'cardlock' stations with no attendant). My father's handicapped, so I'm well aware of the law. And the don't need a button, intercom, etc. Just pull up, honk your horn, and they're required to come out and pump your gas for you if you have a handicap placard.
As for the price disparity for cash/credit, that's mostly for diesel for commercial fueling (a credit transaction for 200 gallons of diesel, for example, is quite high). So there's incentive to pay cash to avoid the added fee the credit card company charges. Gas stations have mostly switched over to no price difference, generally by just charging more for all transactions, cash or credit. With the slow ascent of gas prices, the added cost just isn't noticed.
Where I live there's a group of gas stations that are 'cash only'. Their price is always cheaper than anywhere else because they don't pay the monthly service fees and transaction fees to the credit card companies so they can provide a cheaper price.
Sykotyk
Quite a few of the stations in SE Pennsylvania and central New Jersey, especially Valero, charge different rates for cash and credit.
Where I live (S.F. Bay Area), it is becoming more and more common to see stations give a discount for customers paying cash versus credit/debit and it's not just the independents, most Valero and some 76 (Conoco/Philips) stations do this. Self-serve is the norm here and full service is almost non-existent.
Most Shell stations in Virginia charge differently for cash and credit. Also, I've never encountered a full-serve gas station here. There might be some out west in more rural areas, though. The only full-serve stations I've seen are in a few villages in PA, and throughout NJ (where, as mentioned before, self-serve is prohibited).
So, with the full service in Jersey and Oregon, do you have to tip the attendant?
Be well,
Bryant
Just a few clarifications...
I manage a gas station in New Jersey. My station does not have split pricing, but many locations do. There is no discount for paying cash, the cash price is the price. You pay a premium to charge it. Basically the station is passing along the credit card processing fees to the customer. These card processing fees can be very high, and gas has a very small profit for the station to begin with...usually around 12 cents a gallon. So, as an example if a customer wants $10 on a card, it's about 4 gallons. So we made a whopping 48 cents on the sale, but it cost us 50 cents to process the transaction and we're at a net loss of 2 cents plus what I had to pay an attendant to pump it. Also, I don't know why it's such a big deal that one can't pump their own gas in NJ. It makes it easier for the customer. We also have much cheaper prices than neighboring NY and PA, mostly because the tax on gas is about the lowest in the nation, 14 cents a gallon. While they're getting gas they're free to use the bathroom, get snacks/soda, stretch their legs, smoke a cigarette...whatever without having to monitor the gas being dispensed. The full service in NJ also allows us to have cheaper insurance since all employees have been trained in safe gas dispensing techniques. I know I've witnessed some extremely stupid moves in self serve states...smoking at the pump, cell phone usage while pumping, filling gas cans still inside the car, etc. In NJ the attendant must inform the customer of the dangers of doing such things and if they still refuse to comply I tell them to leave.
About tipping...it certainly isn't required as we're being paid hourly. But tips are greatly appreciated. You try running around on a 90 degree day or a 5 degree day with 50 mph winds or when it's raining. It doesn't make for a very pleasurable working experience. I know I'm the one who chose to go into the gasoline business and for that I have to accept the fact that I must work in all kinds of weather. But my station is located on a very busy road and the place can get very busy in the blink of an eye. Things can get very stressful...trying to remember who's paying cash, who's charging it. Did the person already pay me or am I still waiting for payment. Tips certainly do help make the day better...not only because I end up with more tax free money, but also it shows me that the customer appreciates the service. I try to work for tips when time permits...washing windows, asking to check oil and tire pressure. However, sometimes it's just too busy to give each customer that personal attention. Just my view on things on the retail end.
One thing that really annoys me when I fill up in the US is some pumps require you to enter your zip code after swiping the card. This is fine for US citizens but for foreigners like me it's a real pain as my UK postcode isn't recognised. Is this on the increase? I remember on my first visit there weren't half as many zip code entering pumps as there are now.
Another thing I hate with US gas stations is the gas won't flow until you've prepaid, either by swiping the card in the pump or giving your card or a deposit to the cashier. Why is this? Is driving off without paying for gas a real problem? Over here you always pay afterwards except in a few of the roughest neighbourhoods where it's prepay during the night.
I've never had to enter my zip code after swiping my card. It might have to do with your credit card and not the gas station, but I'm not sure.
QuoteIs driving off without paying for gas a real problem?
Yes it is, especially after last summer's record gas prices. Some stations still allow you to pay inside after pumping, but only for pumps closest to the building. Those pumps often have placards that warn motorists that they will lose their license if they drive off without paying.
Quote from: wandering drive on August 24, 2009, 10:02:44 AM
I've never had to enter my zip code after swiping my card. It might have to do with your credit card and not the gas station, but I'm not sure.
I think it has to do with the specific station. I know when I filled up at a Pilot outside Terre Haute, the pump asked for my ZIP, but usually stations won't ask for that. Some will ask whether the card is a debit, but even it it does, I could still have mine process as a credit transaction, since my fill-ups don't ever exceed the credit company's transaction limit, which I wouldn't think debit transactions are subject. Of course, some stations will process my card as credit regardless and thus not ask if the card is a debit.
Hmm in Europe, you usually always pay after you've pumped at staffed gas stations. I usually fill up at an automated Shell Express station, since they discount € 0.10 per liter ($ 0.50 per gallon). First you pay with a debit card (not sure if they accept credit cards), then you'll gas up, and the filled amount is being taken from your account.
Credit card acceptance is particularly low in the Netherlands. I know most supermarkets only accept cash or (Dutch) bank cards. Staffed gas stations shouldn't be a problem with credit cards.
Quote from: Truvelo on August 24, 2009, 09:50:37 AM
Is driving off without paying for gas a real problem?
yep. people here can be awfully uncivilized. just see how they deface that picture of the police officer on the sticker that says "do not drive off without paying".
Just to add my perspective on a couple of things:
Compulsory full-serve. I dislike this. First, when I stop to refuel, I have a defined procedure not just for filling up, but also recording the amount spent, the number of gallons dispensed, and the mileage (including trip odometer, which I reset at every fillup). In addition, unless I have washed the car very recently, I clean the windshield, mirrors, and headlamps. I don't want anyone getting in my way while I do this and I don't want to feel pressured to get any of it done too quickly. It is my responsibility to drive with the car's fuel supply made safe, with headlamps that work, and a windshield I can see through.
Second, I have driven in both NJ and Oregon and discovered that gas jockeys vary widely in skill. In Oregon, for example, I drove up with a nearly empty tank (15.5-gallon capacity) and the gas jockey concluded he had filled it full after just 2 gallons because he pumped the gas in so fast the automatic shutoff engaged prematurely. Because I had had to give him my credit card before he would start pumping gas, he sent through the charge and gave me the receipt to sign before I even realized what had happened. It took half an hour to get the receipt amended and I had to watch him as he pumped in more gas, slowly, to avoid tripping the shutoff. It would have been much faster for me to have pumped the gas myself because I knew (to within a gallon) how much I needed. I also know that my car tends to trigger pump shutoffs early; they don't.
ZIP codes at pumps. This is a very common anti-fraud measure. I would think that the software would be smart enough to recognize that a credit card does not have a US billing address and so won't have a ZIP code, but it appears this is not the case. Where a non-US credit card has to be used, I would suggest the following sequence:
* Hit "OK" without entering a ZIP code
* Assuming this fails, enter a null ZIP code (00000) and see what happens
Split cash/credit pricing. I had always understood that the major credit card issuers (Visa and MasterCard) prohibit businesses from offering different prices for cash or credit. Is this still the case, and if so, then how do gas stations and other businesses get around it?
In California, ARCO has long had a cash-only policy, explicitly to save the costs associated with accepting credit cards.
Edit: Mexico is another jurisdiction which has compulsory full-serve. Supply of motor fuel is a Pemex monopoly, but the individual gas stations are operated on a franchise system and the individual operators vary somewhat in honesty. The standard advice for many years has been to make sure that the pumps are zeroed before the gas starts flowing, and to go into a gas station with a good idea (in liters) of exactly how much gas you need to fill the tank. You can ask either for a fixed volume of gasoline, or to have the tank filled. Checking that the pump has been zeroed is easier said than done for an obvious gringo since the typical Pemex gas jockey will have the cap off and nozzle in the tank before you are out of the car door. However, in my travels south of the border, I don't think I have ever been subjected to a Pemex pump-zeroing scam (certainly not one that caused me to lose more than five dollars).
Gasoline in Mexico is not particularly cheap. I see, from my gas data book, that I paid M$225.00 for 40 L of magna sin (as unleaded regular is called in Mexico) in early January 2002. The nationwide average price in the US for unleaded regular was $1.11 per gallon and the exchange rate was M$9.14 = US$1 (average price from DOE EIA, exchange rate from Oanda.com, both dated January 7, 2002). The equivalent Mexican price, in US currency and units, was $2.33 per gallon.
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 24, 2009, 01:33:27 PM
In California, ARCO has long had a cash-only policy, explicitly to save the costs associated with accepting credit cards.
Well, I better not stop at an ARCO when I head to California next week :paranoid:
the Mexican gas prices tend to be much more stable than that of the US. When it was $4.60 in San Diego, it was only up to about $3.20 in Tijuana, so people were making border crossings just to fill up. The diesel price discrepancy was even greater: $5 vs $2.50 or so, which made it a very reasonable option for a tractor-trailer operator, or even someone with an RV, to tank up south of the border.
In my experience ARCO accepts debit, but not credit cards, and then adds a flat $.50 transaction fee if you use debit- which negates any fuel cost savings
As a resident on New Jersey, I love full service gas stations. It is a undoubtedly a convenience to have someone pump your gas for you AND pay among the lowest prices for gas in the country. Not to mention, this creates JOBS for people. There is demand for gas station attendants that may not exist in other places.
Governors of NJ frequently toss around eliminating required full-serv gas stations as an excuse to raise the gas tax; their logic is that if you eliminate a cost of gas stations (the cost of paying the attendants), then even if you raise the tax by several cents, the price won't go up. But let's be honest: if NJ eliminates required full-serv, do you really think that the price of retail gas will go down? I don't think so.
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 24, 2009, 01:33:27 PM
Just to add my perspective on a couple of things:
Compulsory full-serve. I dislike this. First, when I stop to refuel, I have a defined procedure not just for filling up, but also recording the amount spent, the number of gallons dispensed, and the mileage (including trip odometer, which I reset at every fillup). In addition, unless I have washed the car very recently, I clean the windshield, mirrors, and headlamps. I don't want anyone getting in my way while I do this and I don't want to feel pressured to get any of it done too quickly.
(...)
In Oregon, for example, I drove up with a nearly empty tank (15.5-gallon capacity) and the gas jockey concluded he had filled it full after just 2 gallons because he pumped the gas in so fast the automatic shutoff engaged prematurely. Because I had had to give him my credit card before he would start pumping gas, he sent through the charge and gave me the receipt to sign before I even realized what had happened. It took half an hour to get the receipt amended and I had to watch him as he pumped in more gas, slowly, to avoid tripping the shutoff. It would have been much faster for me to have pumped the gas myself because I knew (to within a gallon) how much I needed.
I agree with your perspective on this, J N. I too go through a similar procedure when I stop for gas, and I don't like to feel pressured especially if the station isn't particularly busy.
Your story drives home part of the point on the compulsory full-serve issue. For me, many times I'm just stopping to get gas and not going inside. I can get out, pay at the pump with a card, pump and be on my way. If you've got a busy station, you may have to wait for the jockey to come to your vehicle, wait again after the pump stops and sign a receipt, etc. It just seems far less efficient to rely on someone else to do the job for you.
Quote from: J N Winkler
In California, ARCO has long had a cash-only policy, explicitly to save the costs associated with accepting credit cards.
Quote from: corco
In my experience ARCO accepts debit, but not credit cards, and then adds a flat $.50 transaction fee if you use debit- which negates any fuel cost savings
Nevada ARCO stations accept cash and debit cards (with a $.45 transaction fee). They've been promoting a new ARCO debit MasterCard that waives the transaction fee when used for ARCO gas or purchases inside AM/PM stores.
ARCO is the only gas station I've ever seen where you can pay with cash outside. You can feed in bills at a "PayQuick" terminal on the fueling islands, pump, and then go inside to collect change if needed. Definitely convenient if you're just getting gas, as it eliminates that first trip inside.
QuoteBut let's be honest: if NJ eliminates required full-serv, do you really think that the price of retail gas will go down? I don't think so.
God knows gas on the Parkway's bad enough :-D
I, for one, refuse to patronize any full-service station. For a few reasons.
1) Like Mr Winkler, I keep track of my mileage and fuel economy and noting the exact number of gallons dispensed can prove difficult to to from inside the car with the attendent blocking your view.
2) I'm protective of my things. I don't want any lowlife attendant touching my car, nor do I trust them enough to be comfortable with handing them my debit card and assuming they won't rip me off or worse, steal it.
3) Beyond that, to ensure that everything is done exactly as I want it, I insist on doing it myself. I wouldn't let my own mother pump my gas for me.
Yeah, I know, I'm more than a little obsessive compulsive. :rolleyes:
Here in Florida, it's pay before you pump everywhere. Too many people stole gas in the past. Some foreigner questioned why we do that process and after telling him how people steal gas, he said, "It's your people." :verymad: Although, when I lived in Apopka, the next door Racetrac allowed me to fill up before paying, but that was only on two pumps facing their cashiers where they could see my license plate.
There are no full-service pumps, and the only one I know of (if it's even optional....my stepmother would get her car filled up there because she's not able to pump gas) is in Daytona Beach at a single-owned business in downtown.
I used to work at a 7-11, and only US credit cards are accepted at the pumps (because of the zip codes if you chose credit). International cardholders have to come inside and guesstimate how much they need (if you don't use it all, you only get charged for what you pumped and the rest is refunded to you). We couldn't turn on pumps and let people fill up, even if they left their credit card; that caused a lot of aggravation from the customer and they'd take it out on us even though we had nothing to do with it. Then, if they swiped their card outside and came inside right away to swipe it at the register, there was a 3 minute hold on the card (if they didn't press cancel outside), which caused even more irritation. (It was much more fun if they didn't speak a lick of English!! :crazy: )
Even with these measures in place, when gas was getting up to almost $4/gallon, we had a string of gas thefts across the city where someone would park in front of a pump, unscrew the metal "door" underneath the pump, manipulate it to give free gas, and tell everyone they knew to come by and use that pump.
Oh, if you stop at a store down here, come inside to pay for gas with your card, you better get outside and start pumping it quick because there's a 3-minute hold on the pump and if you dilly-dally in the potty or aisles, you'll miss your chance, the transaction will automatically cancel, and you'll have to redo the transaction. So, don't get upset with your cashier when that happens :biggrin: We're there to help, not make miracles happen.
your stepmother is not able to pump gas b/c of a disability? in that case, wouldn't all stations in FL fill up for her, or is there no such law in FL?
Quotepark in front of a pump, unscrew the metal "door" underneath the pump, manipulate it to give free gas, and tell everyone they knew to come by and use that pump.
god damn that's elaborate. people need to learn to take the bus!
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 24, 2009, 07:40:08 PM
your stepmother is not able to pump gas b/c of a disability? in that case, wouldn't all stations in FL fill up for her, or is there no such law in FL?
Quotepark in front of a pump, unscrew the metal "door" underneath the pump, manipulate it to give free gas, and tell everyone they knew to come by and use that pump.
god damn that's elaborate. people need to learn to take the bus!
She doesn't have a disabled placard or tag, but she has never pumped gas in her life and really isn't able to at her present age.
It is very elaborate, but the police did arrest one person doing it. Forget the bus! You're better off walking.
forget walking! you're better off staying at home and buying everything via mail-order! :pan:
OK, here's the scoop on gas stations in Western Colorado:
- Most stations have the same posted price for cash & credit. In our town, there is one station that discounts gas by 3 cents/gallon if you pay by cash. Others will discount gas if you purchase a car wash, or they will take off $1.00 of the wash itself if you pump over 8 gallons. There are still other stations, usually gas stations associated with grocery chains, that will give discounts of 3-5 cents/gallon if you scan your shoppers card first. These same grocery store stations will sometimes discount gas even more to 10 cents/gallon on a one-time shot every time you accumulate $xx.xx of non-gas purchases in the same store using your shoppers card within a certain time frame, or for every so many prescription refills, or gift card purchases.
- Full Service pumps are few and far between -- mainly because most gas/carryouts only employ 1 or 2 people to run the store at any given time (usually just one person), so who will mind the store if the employee is pumping gas??? There is a law that requires full serve for self-serve prices for those with a handicap placard or license plate, but I think there is either a rule(s) that state(s) that there has to be at least two people working at the store in order to pump gas for the disabled, or there is only a certain time period that they are required to pump it (sunup to sundown). Most full-serve places I have ever seen are at gas stations with full-service garages/repair shops attached to them -- which are rare out in populated areas of Colorado. I seemed to notice that there are more gas/garages than gas/carryout combos in California and Arizona than in Colorado.
- 24/7 Self-serve Unattended Gas Stations are scarce, but many rural areas have them, either for fleet vehicles or for towns that roll up the sidewalks at 5PM. However, there are many stations in Western Colorado that keep pumps open 24/7 even though the store itself is closed. These stations are credit-card only during those times.
- Having to enter a ZIP code before pumping with a credit or debit card is an either/or proposition. I tend to see more ZIPs required at stations along major highways than I do at the stations for the locals. Personally, I would like to see it a state law for ZIPs to be required at self service credit terminals, gas pumps, etc... and photo IDs at all other manned register check-outs, or that credit cards must have a user's photo on them (Shell Mastercard used to do this over 10 years ago). I can't tell you how many times clerks don't ask for ID even though I write SEE ID in big letters in the signature box -- And yet both the merchants & credit card companies complain about the rising costs of credit theft & fraud.
- Pre-pay for cash pumping is everywhere, and I think it is used more as a deterrent for drive-offs (I have heard that some stations will deduct the amount of the drive-off(s) from the employees paycheck) moreso than a ploy to get the customer to drop a few more bucks once in the store. The last time I have seen an actual cash machine at the pump in which you insert bills to get credit for the pump was at an experimental unmanned Shell station on the west side of Cleveland, OH about 8 years ago -- didn't last too long & it didn't give change either.
Quote(I have heard that some stations will deduct the amount of the drive-off(s) from the employees paycheck)
what's the poor employee supposed to do? Keep a Winchester behind the counter??
Farm Fresh grocery stores around here recently installed unattended gas pumps, as did BJ's Wholesale store-thing, and the Farm Fresh pumps accept cash or credit (you feed the bills right into the machine), and the store doesn't use a savings card or anything, but certain items get you a few cents off of gas per gallon when you buy them, in the form of an extra receipt that can be scanned at the pump. The pumps only issue change, however, in the form of a voucher good at your next purchase.
Unfortunately over the past year the pumps have gradually become attended, usually by some annoying old sexist man or a retarded guy. The sexist one forcefully tries to pump my mom's gas for her, but completely ignores me, and the retarded one comes up and starts talking to you while you're pumping your gas. Needless to say, I never stop there anymore. ;) Their gas has been really expensive recently too ($2.539/gal compared with $2.439/gal at the 7-Eleven a few miles down the road.
As for zip codes, there are a good number of stations around here that require them with credit transactions, but usually only the franchised stations like Zooms.
Prepaying for gas is a requirement at every station I have ever gotten gas at in my life. If you're paying cash (except at Farm Fresh) you must go inside and guess how much you're going to need, and if credit you swipe your card first. Virginia's had its fair share of drive-offs I would assume (though I've never heard of one around here), judging by the large stickers on all (I believe all of them anyway) pumps proclaiming that if you don't pay you will lose your license. For how long it doesn't say, but it says it "may be the last time you drive."
Quote from: thenetwork on August 24, 2009, 08:55:10 PM
I can't tell you how many times clerks don't ask for ID even though I write SEE ID in big letters in the signature box -- And yet both the merchants & credit card companies complain about the rising costs of credit theft & fraud.
You wouldn't believe how many people balk at being asked to show ID even though they've written SEE ID on the back of the card. Also, half the people don't even bother putting anything at all in the box there. And then what do you do about the people who state that they "have their wife's credit card"?
Credit cards are a joke, really.
Regarding the zip codes wouldn't a better system be to use the 4 digit PIN number? This would work with all credit cards regardless of the country it was issued in. Furthermore I feel the US is very slow to embrace Chip'n'Pin and still uses the antiquated signature system when purchasing from a store using a credit card.
Quite a lot of Americans don't know their credit-card PINs. I got caught out by this almost 15 years ago when I drove up to Washington, DC, thinking I would be able to withdraw cash from an ATM with just the card, and discovered it didn't really work that way. I don't know if this is still the case with most banks, but at that time and with the bank that issues my parents' and my credit cards, PINs were supplied on request only and separately from the credit card itself. It is not like Britain where Barclays has always issued me my PIN and debit card at the same time, but in separate mailings.
As has been noted above, many retailers have a policy of not accepting foreign credit cards for pay-at-the-pump and commercially available credit-card verification software has settings which are designed to support this. (Some British merchants have similar restrictions. For many years Expedia.co.uk would not accept credit cards with non-British billing addresses and their customer service had to treat me as a special case when booking air tickets.)
Someone earlierm entioned Arco's general cash/debit only policy...some Arco franchisees here in California do accept credit, but very very few. (One of those locations in Rancho Cordova is now a Texaco; the other two I know of are in Fair Oaks (operated by Valero) and Live Oak.)
Yes, stations are supposed to pump gas for someone who isn't able to, but I see exceptions all the time. Usually, it's "I'm the only one here and I can't leave the cash register"
Pic n Tote's almost always have 2 people working. Flash Mart's usually just have one.
QuoteSo, with the full service in Jersey and Oregon, do you have to tip the attendant?
I worked at alot of full service stations from 1970-1985, and I cleaned windshields w/out being asked, always asked to check the oil and I dont remember getting tipped more than a couple of times.
^^ Oh, okay. The reason I asked that is that I've never been to a full-service gas station in my life, being from Georgia.
For me, it's easier to pump my gas, clean the windshield and whatever and be on my way. Having to wait for an attendant, depending on how busy the station is, would be a major inconvenience. I'm not knocking the jobs full-service stations create, but it can be inconvenient to some drivers.
Be well,
Bryant
We don't generally tip the attendant here in NJ. Perhaps we should.
Quote from: thenetwork on August 24, 2009, 08:55:10 PM
- Having to enter a ZIP code before pumping with a credit or debit card is an either/or proposition. I tend to see more ZIPs required at stations along major highways than I do at the stations for the locals. Personally, I would like to see it a state law for ZIPs to be required at self service credit terminals, gas pumps, etc... and photo IDs at all other manned register check-outs, or that credit cards must have a user's photo on them (Shell Mastercard used to do this over 10 years ago). I can't tell you how many times clerks don't ask for ID even though I write SEE ID in big letters in the signature box -- And yet both the merchants & credit card companies complain about the rising costs of credit theft & fraud.
I asked for ID once, and got the "Is it cause I'm
black?!" spiel complete with a stare-down which made me laugh at him.
BP will ask you for your ID, but most other places don't unless you're "suspiciously" buying $40+ in goods from the store. (Especially gift cards.)
the real question is, was he actually black or was he Ali G?
Windshield washing at gas stations is stupid. Really, that's what that blue-dyed alcohol they call "windshield wiper fluid" is for. And you don't even need a pit stop, it's completely on command!
As for checking the oil, that's even more useless and obsolete. Most new cars these days will automatically sound chimes, light up lights, etc. to alert drivers to a low oil level or a due oil change (among a plethora of other issues major and minor). Who needs a dipstick?
Quote from: Duke87 on August 25, 2009, 06:45:59 PM
Windshield washing at gas stations is stupid. Really, that's what that blue-dyed alcohol they call "windshield wiper fluid" is for. And you don't even need a pit stop, it's completely on command!
The sponge/squeegee combos do work better than the windshield washer fluid, though.
Sometimes, windshield wiper fluid is useless, especially with bird caca on the windshield. At times, wipers can smear the fluid, which makes the situation worse.
Be well,
Bryant
^^^ YES! :-(
Quote from: Bryant5493 on August 25, 2009, 07:11:14 PM
Sometimes, windshield wiper fluid is useless, especially with bird caca on the windshield. At times, wipers can smear the fluid, which makes the situation worse.
Ditto that for other things, like splattered bugs...
I work for a company that processes credit cards and can speak on a couple of these points personally.
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 24, 2009, 01:33:27 PM
ZIP codes at pumps. This is a very common anti-fraud measure. I would think that the software would be smart enough to recognize that a credit card does not have a US billing address and so won't have a ZIP code, but it appears this is not the case. Where a non-US credit card has to be used, I would suggest the following sequence:
* Hit "OK" without entering a ZIP code
* Assuming this fails, enter a null ZIP code (00000) and see what happens
You are correct, this is a credit card protection feature known as Address Verification Service or AVS. It can either be house number and zip or just zip. As for non-US cards, I think it is laziness on the part of the companies involved. The either don't want to check for card origin or the cost of handling the exceptions is less than programming it right.
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 24, 2009, 01:33:27 PM
Split cash/credit pricing. I had always understood that the major credit card issuers (Visa and MasterCard) prohibit businesses from offering different prices for cash or credit. Is this still the case, and if so, then how do gas stations and other businesses get around it?
You are right on the money here. It
is prohibited by Visa or MC unless state or local law allows the practice. However, the businesses involved have to be caught by Visa/MC. As consumer complains and/or audits are much more likely for large businesses that small, that is why you usually see it only with mom and pop or small chains as their chance of getting caught is less.
Now, most corporate accounts between the vendor and the trucking company so a cash discount is allowed.
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 24, 2009, 01:33:27 PM
In California, ARCO has long had a cash-only policy, explicitly to save the costs associated with accepting credit cards.
Since they don't accept any credit cards, there's nothing Visa or MC can say.
In my area:
Self-Serve: 99.9% the norm. The only stations that offer full-serve, at a massive premium (upwards of 70 cents) are neighborhood stations in the wealthiest neighborhoods, plying the blue-haired old lady trade.
Handicapped: most stations have a sign as described.
Diesel: Maybe 30% of stations have Diesel, up from much less than that a few years ago. Most truck stops also have a Diesel pump in the gasoline isle for Diesel cars and trucks, so you do not have to line up with the big rigs. In the US the Diesel spout is larger and will not fit in a gasoline car, BTW.
Credit cards: I know of no station that does not accept credit cards.
Split pricing: Unknown here.
Unattended fully automated stations: Unknown here.
Pre-pay or credit only: Only implimented in-town in bad neighborhoods. Suburban and by the interstate permit you to pump and then go in to pay.
Grocery stores: Kroger has gasoline, and gives a large (can by 15 cents) discount based on one's grocery purchases.
Quote from: mightyaceYou are right on the money here. It is prohibited by Visa or MC unless state or local law allows the practice. However, the businesses involved have to be caught by Visa/MC. As consumer complains and/or audits are much more likely for large businesses that small, that is why you usually see it only with mom and pop or small chains as their chance of getting caught is less.
With regards to being allowed to have separate prices, if a station considers it to be a "cash discount" instead of a "credit card surcharge" wouldn't that allow them to maintain the separate prices?
Quote from: yanksfan6129 on August 25, 2009, 09:20:11 PM
Quote from: mightyaceYou are right on the money here. It is prohibited by Visa or MC unless state or local law allows the practice. However, the businesses involved have to be caught by Visa/MC. As consumer complains and/or audits are much more likely for large businesses that small, that is why you usually see it only with mom and pop or small chains as their chance of getting caught is less.
With regards to being allowed to have separate prices, if a station considers it to be a "cash discount" instead of a "credit card surcharge" wouldn't that allow them to maintain the separate prices?
No. The actual wording from Visa/MC is something like this, "The price paid with a [Visa or MC] card must not differ from the cash price."
Re: SP Cook's post about Kroger
Yeah, I normally get $0.03 off per gallon at Kroger with my Kroger Plus Card. My dad let me use his card one time, and he had a $0.15 discount/gallon, as he buys more groceries from there.
Be well,
Bryant
Quote from: Bryant5493 on August 25, 2009, 09:23:45 PM
Re: SP Cook's post about Kroger
Yeah, I normally get $0.03 off per gallon at Kroger with my Kroger Plus Card. My dad let me use his card one time, and he had a $0.15 discount/gallon, as he buys more groceries from there.
Be well,
Bryant
I get gas a lot from Kroger myself for the same reasons. In TN, it is also $0.03 off per gallon at Kroger with my Kroger Plus Card. You get $0.10 for every $100 in groceries you buy and $0.15 for every $100 in groceries on a Kroger co-branded card. (I forget whether it's a Visa or MC)
The Weis Markets and Giant grocery store chains in PA also do the $0.10 discount. There is one difference from how Kroger does it. Kroger makes me do each $0.10 a discount at a time while the Weis and Giant let you use all accumulated discounts at once.
I get 10¢ off at GetGo for every $50 spent at Giant Eagle under their FuelPerks program, and now get a 1% discount on groceries at Giant Eagle for every 10 gallons pumped at GetGo under their FoodPerks program. The problem is you must use either Perks all at once at either place.
Shop 'n Save has a Pump Perks program involving their Shop 'n Save Express stations as well as some BP and Sunoco stations.
That's the one thing I don't get...Some states will allow you to combine all your shopping card bonuses into one sale (Three .10 discounts for a total of .30 off at one time vs. having to fill up on 3 different occasions to use your credits). Here in Colorado, for a brief time the state had outlawed pump discounts of more than 3 or 5 cents, as it "created an unfair competitive price advantage" over more traditional stand-alone gas stations. It had since re-allowed discounts of up to 10 or 15 cents per fill-up.
The only times those nickel and dime discounts (no pun intended) are advantageous are when the gas prices are cheaper. If you take 20 gallons to "fill up" when prices are at, say $2.00 a gallon with a 10 cent/gallon savings, you save $2.00 or 5% off your total bill.
Now take last year when gas was at $4.00 at some places, yeah, you still only saved $2.00 at the pump for a 20 gallon fill, but overall your percentage off the total bill was much less...Is it really unfair competition at that point?
Even though my Kroger shoppers card has two to four 10-cent credits in any given month, I still don't use them all since:
a) I cant string them all together in a single pump session
b) I'm not gonna drive out of my way to go to an official Kroger brand gas station to save $1.50 total if gas is approaching record levels like last year.
Perhaps if it was a percentage off (like 10% off) instead of what usually turns out to be a maximum dollar amount (15 gallons always equals $1.50 off). Then I might change my tune.
Quote from: thenetwork on August 25, 2009, 11:29:12 PM
Here in Colorado, for a brief time the state had outlawed pump discounts of more than 3 or 5 cents, as it "created an unfair competitive price advantage" over more traditional stand-alone gas stations. It had since re-allowed discounts of up to 10 or 15 cents per fill-up.
It's ironic that the "stand-alone gas stations" are complaining as the vast majority of them are either company-owned or owned by large corporations running hundreds of gas stations/convenience stores. Back in the '70s and '80s, these stations used their competitive advantages including loss leader sales of gas to put the "mom and pop" stations out of business. Their singing a different tune now that the shoe's on the other foot! :poke:
Well, I'm from Oregon, so I've grown up with full-serve being the norm. Self-serve is allowed for motorcycles, however, as outlined by ORS 480.389.
Quote
480.349 Use of gasoline dispensing device by motorcycle operator. (1) As used in this section, motorcycle has the meaning given that term in ORS 801.365.
(2) Notwithstanding ORS 480.330 and 480.340:
(a) Upon the request of an operator of a motorcycle, the owner, operator or employee of a filling station, service station, garage or other dispensary where Class 1 flammable liquids are dispensed at retail shall set the fuel dispensing device and hand the discharge nozzle to the operator of the motorcycle.
(b) An operator of a motorcycle who is handed a discharge nozzle under paragraph (a) of this subsection:
(A) May dispense Class 1 flammable liquids into the operators motorcycle.
(B) Shall, after dispensing the liquids, return the discharge nozzle to the owner, operator or employee.
(3) The owner, operator or employee who is handed the discharge nozzle shall return the nozzle to the pump or take any other actions necessary to ensure safe completion of the fueling operation. [2001 c.344 §2]
The statute allows the self-serve upon the request of the motorcyclist, but speaking from personal experience, most station attendants actually force you to self-serve. Apparently, some motorcyclists had threatened litigation after an attendant spilled some fuel on their floorboards, so they pretty much force you to self-serve.
Regarding the cash vs. credit thing, most stations here offer the same price for both methods of payment, but there are a few stations around that do separate pricing. That seems to be gaining traction, actually, as there's a 76 and a Shell in Cornelius, OR that charge about 10 cents extra to use a credit card.
There's also a new law going into effect that makes the practice of "topping" illegal. By "topping", I mean when the gas tank is full, but the attendant overfills the tank to the nearest dollar so they don't have to give coin change.
I lived in Washington state for a couple years, up in Ellensburg (right near the I-82/I-90 interchange). And while most stations up there are self-serve, there's a 76 at Main and Capital that is full-serve (and cheaper than most of the other stations in town), so I was able to live like an Oregonian. :sombrero:
Perhaps my biggest pet peeve with some self-serve stations is when they make you pay
before you can put gas in the car. I understand they want to mitigate the gas-and-dash routine, but still, that seems a bit crazy--or maybe that's just the Oregonian in me who's not used to the
modus operandi of self-serve.
-Alex (Tarkus)
the best way to override an Oregon gas attendant is to immediately get out of the car and start pumping gas, and then to tell them with a firm hand "no". It's like dog training. Whacking them on the nose with a newspaper is optional.
Quotethe owner, operator or employee ... shall set the fuel dispensing device and hand the discharge nozzle to the operator of the motorcycle.
that is not self-serve. I'm a big boy. I can swipe my card, punch in my zip code, and select my grade of gas all by myself.
Quotean attendant spilled some fuel on their floorboards
and you wonder why I don't trust gas-station attendants. If they had the skills to do their job correctly, they'd be working a better job. At the very least, apprentice mechanic for
twelve dollars an hour.
They also top cars clumsily, allowing gasoline to squirt everywhere. I have never topped off in my life; mainly it's so I refill the tank to the same level each time and get a decent idea of my fuel consumption, but also because it seems like a colossally unsafe idea.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 26, 2009, 12:45:43 PM
I have never topped off in my life; mainly it's so I refill the tank to the same level each time and get a decent idea of my fuel consumption, but also because it seems like a colossally unsafe idea.
I do top off because the automatic shutoff on pumps in Nashville area can be 1 - 3 gallons below full and it differs from station to station if not pump to pump. I am careful and rarely spill gas and if so, not much.
I also always top off to measure my fuel consumption, because pumps on different stations do not shutoff at the same level. I usually keep pumping until I see it's almost full. That's usually half a gallon to a gallon after the first shutoff.
A lot of stations that I go to have "Do Not Top Off" stickers, talking about vapor reclamation or something of the like.
Be well,
Bryant
Quote from: Bryant5493 on August 26, 2009, 01:04:42 PM
A lot of stations that I go to have "Do Not Top Off" stickers, talking about vapor reclamation or something of the like.
Be well,
Bryant
Same here. The main reason I think people are worried about this is that many (most?) people are clumsy in topping off and won't stop until the gas spills out.
If you know how big your tank is and how accurate your gas gauge is, this should rarely be a problem.
So, I'll continue to "top off" until the Environmental Police stop me! :evilgrin:
^^ lol @ the "Environmental Police"
I didn't really know that you could keep pumping past where it forced you to stop. The more you know, the more you grow. :sombrero:
Be well,
Bryant
Quote from: Bryant5493 on August 26, 2009, 01:17:49 PM
I didn't really know that you could keep pumping past where it forced you to stop. The more you know, the more you grow. :sombrero:
Be well,
Bryant
If you're truly near full, it will repeatedly stop when you try to put more in. Usually, I stop when it pretty much refuses to add more.
Also, in some vehicles, like my Chevy G20 van, some pumps stop after less than 2 gallons if I'm not holding the pump. (Especially the ones at Kroger. :banghead:) For these, I have to hold the handle myself as it is gives a different angle and works, but I hate holding it for 25 or more gallons!
^^ Yeah, that'd be killer. I hate holding the handle as well.
Be well,
Bryant
Quote from: mightyace on August 26, 2009, 01:29:06 PM
Also, in some vehicles, like my Chevy G20 van, some pumps stop after less than 2 gallons if I'm not holding the pump. (Especially the ones at Kroger. :banghead:) For these, I have to hold the handle myself as it is gives a different angle and works, but I hate holding it for 25 or more gallons!
They removed the automatic pumping a couple of years ago (before I started driving) in the Netherlands (and I think - most of Europe). Now you have to hold the pump all the way until you're finished.
I'm not sure how it works with trucks, because it would be a pain in the ass to hold that thing when pumping 200 gallons. European truck pumps pump 35 gallons per minute, but then you're still pumping for 6 minutes.
QuoteThe Weis Markets and Giant grocery store chains in PA also do the $0.10 discount. There is one difference from how Kroger does it. Kroger makes me do each $0.10 a discount at a time while the Weis and Giant let you use all accumulated discounts at once.
Where does Weis and Giant sell gas? The ones that I see are just grocery stores.
Re: Chris' post about European service stations
Wow! That sucks. Why'd automatic pumping get removed?
Be well,
Bryant
the worst is a pump that cuts off when you squeeze the handle completely, so you have to hold it at the precise level of halfway, while it dribbles in gas at about one gallon a minute. Times like that are when I get enough gas to make it only to the next station!
Quote from: njroadhorse on August 26, 2009, 02:28:54 PM
QuoteThe Weis Markets and Giant grocery store chains in PA also do the $0.10 discount. There is one difference from how Kroger does it. Kroger makes me do each $0.10 a discount at a time while the Weis and Giant let you use all accumulated discounts at once.
Where does Weis and Giant sell gas? The ones that I see are just grocery stores.
I know both Weis and Giant have pumps in my hometown of Bloomsburg, PA. The Giant in Briar Creek (Berwick), PA and Danville, PA have them as well.
I'd recommend checking their website to find locations with pumps.
Regarding pump shutoffs and hold-open levers:
* Most pumps in the US have a hold-open lever which is designed to allow the pump nozzle to be left in the car, dispensing gas, while the driver does something else (like cleaning the windshield) which allows him to avoid breathing the benzene fumes. It is designed to release when the pump shutoff engages, so that there is no risk of fuel overflowing. It usually has multiple settings, ideally at least three clicks between "pump as fast as possible" and "dribble fuel into the tank." The multiple settings are necessary because certain designs of fuel tank cause the pump shutoff mechanism to engage when gas is pumped in faster than a certain rate. From time to time you do run into pumps where the slowest setting on the hold-open lever is faster than your tank can handle and so, as Jake notes, you have to grasp the nozzle and breathe the benzene while the fuel trickles in.
* It has been ages since I filled up a car in Britain or Ireland (the only two European countries where I have driven), but I don't think I have ever seen a hold-open lever on a petrol pump in either country. The lack of them is a major nuisance, as is the lack of windshield washer fluid and squeegees (though I understand from Chris' postings in SkyscraperCity that these amenities are provided in continental Europe, which has more in common with the US in some respects than Britain has).
* In my experience, "packing the tank" is most likely to happen when fuel is dispensed at such a slow rate that the pump shutoff does not engage until the tank is ready to overflow. It is unsafe to "pack the tank" but not, I would contend, unsafe to top off. My personal approach to topping off is to pump (using the hold-open lever) until the shutoff engages for the first time (ideally within 1-2 gallons of a complete fill), and then manually pump in additional gas, squeezing the handle more and more tightly, until the shutoff engages for the second time.
I think pumps everywhere in the First World now have automatic shutoffs. It is not all that easy, however, to find material on the Web which explains how they work--I've looked several times. I have always assumed that they are triggered by backpressure which develops as fuel is dispensed into the tank. This, combined with the narrowness of the spouts in some tank designs, would explain why high rates of dispensing sometimes result in the shutoff being triggered prematurely. I also wouldn't expect pump shutoffs to work with designs of tank (like jerrycans or motorcycle tanks) which allow air to vent freely around the nozzle.
Quote from: angentsteel53the worst is a pump that cuts off when you squeeze the handle completely, so you have to hold it at the precise level of halfway, while it dribbles in gas at about one gallon a minute. Times like that are when I get enough gas to make it only to the next station!
Yes, those erk me to no end... then they'll cut off. :banghead:
I went to one gas station (Shell) and moved the clip down to pump gas automatically. It cut off at $0.06. I tried to pump it manually, but it wouldn't work. So, I hung up the gas nozzle and tried it again. It still didn't work. I then went across the street to another gas station (Texaco).
So, on my transaction listing from Wachovia, it read, "Shell -- $0.06"; "Texaco -- $20.00."
Be well,
Bryant
I have had the amazing luck of the one time I left a pump unattended, its automatic shutoff didn't work! I was sitting in the car, reading the map, and starting to think "this is surely taking a long time!" and next thing you know, I've salted the earth with six gallons of gasoline. Note to self, never leave the pump unattended!
Jerry cans, indeed you have to fill those manually. Luckily their capacity is well-known, and usually they are empty when they need filling, so filling them by reading the gauge is easy.
and regarding gas gauges - they are the farthest thing from being linear, and therefore quite difficult to correlate with actual quantity of gas in the tank. When the gauge reads "full", the tank itself is usually 2-3 gallons, if not more, away from capacity. Similarly, when it reads "empty", it still has about 1-2 gallons.
Furthermore, the halfway point is really about 2/3 of the way. Between 1/2 and 1/4, the level goes down very slowly, while between 1/2 and 3/4 it goes down very quickly.
Re: agentsteel53's posts -- unattended pump/gas gauge
Wow! Wasted money. I know you were peeved. Heck, I know would've been. X-(
----
I've noticed the thing about gas gauges. Mine looks one way when the car's turned on. But, when I I relase the brake and start to drive, the gauge drops down a few pegs.
Be well,
Bryant
To add to Jonathons comments - it's common over here (UK) to hear clicking sounds at gas stations as people try to defeat the backpressure and get that last drop of fuel into their tanks. This is not only pointless but highly dangerous as there's been countless incidents where excess diesel has spilled onto the road because a trucker has overfilled his tank. Along comes a biker who then spins off around a bend or roundabout because of the diesel spillage and results in serious injury or death.
A difference I've seen between UK and US nozzles is the US ones have a rubbery shield around the nozzle which appears to make the filler cap airtight. UK ones don't have this so I wonder if the shutoff systems used in both countries is different.
^^ Dang! :-o
Be well,
Bryant
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 26, 2009, 03:35:56 PM
Furthermore, the halfway point is really about 2/3 of the way. Between 1/2 and 1/4, the level goes down very slowly, while between 1/2 and 3/4 it goes down very quickly.
Yeah this happens with European cars too. I can do 220 miles with half a tank of diesel, and it gets nearly empty in another 100 miles. Then I pump, and it turns out the tank was only 2/3rd empty. Those gauges suck... I usually watch the trip odometer. (My tank only has a 13 gallon capacity)
Quote from: TruveloA difference I've seen between UK and US nozzles is the US ones have a rubbery shield around the nozzle which appears to make the filler cap airtight. UK ones don't have this so I wonder if the shutoff systems used in both countries is different.
I have seen this in some European countries too.
and in case you're wondering what happens when a gas pump overflows, the attendants definitely have a cleanup procedure and materials readily at hand. Luckily this was during the day ... for nighttime, there tends to be a phone number posted to call in case of a spill. (But don't call using your cell phone, we know those can throw sparks that can cause your spilled gas to ignite in a horrible, horrible inferno that will cause all airplanes in a 50 mile radius to turn into pumpkins!)
^^
:-D
Yeah, I've noticed signs denoting not to use cellular devices or get back in your car while pumping gas, because of spontaneous combustion from static electricity.
Be well,
Bryant
Is that using-cell-while-pumping story an urban legend or not?
I sometimes get statically charged when getting out of the car, and I have to touch the exterior first before pumping.
I always grab the car exterior first when getting out, and sometimes it's quite the shock! The Pontiac G6 seems extra susceptible to this behavior.
Quote from: ChrisIs that using-cell-while-pumping story an urban legend or not?
I don't know. I've used my cell phone a few times while pumping, and I'm still here. So...
Be well,
Bryant
Quote from: Chris on August 26, 2009, 03:48:56 PM
Is that using-cell-while-pumping story an urban legend or not?
I sometimes get statically charged when getting out of the car, and I have to touch the exterior first before pumping.
The cell phone thing is an urban legend.
The "Mythbusters" show on Discovery Channel tested this and they couldn't make a cell phone start a fire in a 1 or 2 cubic yard enclosure saturated with gasoline fumes.
Now, static charge from yourself, I think it's possible but still a remote possibility.
Re. pump collars, those are actually vapor-catchers. The flat collars tend to be used in states which have lax vapor-catching requirements. There is another type of collar, folded like a concertina, which extends almost all the way to the tip of the nozzle. It forms a better seal against the filler opening and for that reason is commonly found in states with strict air quality requirements.
I don't think the flat collars have much effect on pump shutoffs since they don't form a tight seal around the tank opening, but I'm not sure about the concertina type. (As an aside, the concertina acts like a spring when it is compressed, so getting the nozzle to stay in the tank opening is sometimes not easy.)
Where fuel and air pollution is concerned, the UK tends to lag the US by 10-15 years in some respects. In the US oxidation catalyst has been the law since 1975, so new cars produced in that and succeeding model years have not been able to use leaded gasoline. In the UK cars continued to be built to use leaded fuel throughout the 1980's (I think 1994 was the last year in which such cars were made). It was already exceptional to find leaded gasoline in the US in the early 1990's when I started driving, but in the UK phasing-out of "four-star" (as leaded gasoline was called) did not start until 1999 or so when Lead Replacement Petrol (LRP) was marketed in its place. The working drawings for traffic signs which accompanied TSRGD 1994 included a symbol for four-star (consisting, predictably, of four eight-pointed stars in a square) and a two-pump symbol (one pump black, the other pump green) to indicate that service stations so signed had unleaded fuel available.
Based on this experience, I would give it a few years before the collars make their way to petrol pumps in the UK.
As an aside, US pollution control standards are very unforgiving to diesels, including turbodiesels, so it is less of a straightforward economic decision to buy a diesel in the US than it is in Europe where you are pretty much guaranteed to come ahead if you do more than 20,000 miles a year. The stereotypical American diesel driver is the long-distance highway commuter who doesn't care about good acceleration and must have a Mercedes no matter what.
Re. static electricity, copper is your friend--it doesn't spark and for that reason is used in shell hoists and other implements for handling live ammunition.
Quote(As an aside, the concertina acts like a spring when it is compressed, so getting the nozzle to stay in the tank opening is sometimes not easy.)
It took me about three years to learn that I was allowed to un-compress the concertina. I thought the whole purpose of it was to disengage the gas pump in case of inattention.
For the longest time I used to stand there, forcing it in to its maximum depth while the gas pumped. :ded:
Quote from: J N Winkler on August 26, 2009, 04:10:55 PMone pump black, the other pump green
does that mean the availability of both gasoline and diesel?
In the US, black means unleaded gasoline, and green means diesel. Completely the opposite of how it is in Iceland and Norway, and perhaps other places in Europe too!
A few comments:
- Prepay pumping can be a hassle, but I can usually guess how much I need
- If I am wrong, I like to overpay and get change
- If I do use the entire prepay amount, the pump slows down at about 50 cents left and takes forever to complete
- I've never had automatic shutoff problems
- If I do trigger the automatic shutoff, I keep pumping to a five or ten cent or full dollar amount (ex: $15.46 to $15.50 or $23.94 to $24.00)
- I've noticed that the levers that hold the trigger open have been removed from a lot of places
- Now, there are signs saying to not hold the trigger open with an object
Re. green and black pump symbols, the DFT's working drawings subsite is here:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/workingdrawings/ (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/workingdrawings/)
The current version of the symbols in question (S47) is here:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/workingdrawings/generalsseries/s47petroldieselandlpgfuel.pdf (http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/workingdrawings/generalsseries/s47petroldieselandlpgfuel.pdf)
Black pump means both diesel and leaded petrol, while green pump means unleaded petrol. However, the current version does not show superimposed pumps. I recall that such a symbol existed but I would have to double-check.
These working drawings were prepared to accompany TSRGD 2002 (the latest repeal and re-enactment of TSRGD). It replaced TSRGD 1994, earlier enactments having come out in 1981, 1975, and 1964. Working drawings for TSRGD 1994 were never put online by the DFT (although they were eventually scanned in and made available through several technical information services); instead they were sold at a cost of £30 for a complete set.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 26, 2009, 03:33:33 PM
I have had the amazing luck of the one time I left a pump unattended, its automatic shutoff didn't work! I was sitting in the car, reading the map, and starting to think "this is surely taking a long time!" and next thing you know, I've salted the earth with six gallons of gasoline. Note to self, never leave the pump unattended!
You're lucky you didn't "drive off", tearing off the hose and having gasoline showering down in the immediate area. (I still don't know how that guy did it.)
There is a station on US 17 between Charleston and Georgetown, SC where the pump did the same thing to me as I stood there and held it while pumping.
I tend to remember to take out the pump before I leave!
QuoteA lot of stations that I go to have "Do Not Top Off" stickers, talking about vapor reclamation or something of the like.
I'm more fond of the "Contains up to 10% ethanol" stickers. I think it would be hilarious to make a t-shirt with that on it and wear it to the bar. :sombrero:
Quoteregarding gas gauges - they are the farthest thing from being linear, and therefore quite difficult to correlate with actual quantity of gas in the tank. When the gauge reads "full", the tank itself is usually 2-3 gallons, if not more, away from capacity. Similarly, when it reads "empty", it still has about 1-2 gallons.
Furthermore, the halfway point is really about 2/3 of the way. Between 1/2 and 1/4, the level goes down very slowly, while between 1/2 and 3/4 it goes down very quickly.
I've noticed several trips take me from 3/4 to 1/2 on the way there and 1/2 to 3/8ths on the way back. So, yeah.
Also, the gauge moves when you face up or downhill. Because, you know, the gas in the tank is no longer level with respect to the car and that artificially drives the instrument up or down. They areby no means hyper accurate. Gas station pumps, however, are. I believe I just bought 8.546 gallons when it tells me that.
Gas pumps are very accurate. Especially in the state of Florida. The state's department of weights and measures certification is headed by Charles Bronson. You definitely don't want to mess with him.
If I have to prepay, I generally amble into the convenience store, toss a green piece of paper featuring Andrew Jackson on the counter, mutter "Twenty on six", and leave. It rarely does anything near close to filling up my tank, but I never have to get change, either.
The more annoying thing is when I forget to observe the pump number before entering the store. Fortunately the attendants can often recall the pump number for me if I point out which car is mine.
QuoteThe more annoying thing is when I forget to observe the pump number before entering the store. Fortunately the attendants can often recall the pump number for me if I point out which car is mine.
Most pumps around here have the number on a large plain sticker near the top facing the storefront for this very reason--so you can look out the window from the register and see it. Some pumps have a sticker on the front of the pump too, but not all.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 27, 2009, 04:41:13 AM
The more annoying thing is when I forget to observe the pump number before entering the store. Fortunately the attendants can often recall the pump number for me if I point out which car is mine.
usually they are good at identifying "the one the blue car is parked in front of".
my worst problem is identifying which side of the car the gas cap is on, and also if it is internal or external release. Different rental car every week, same problem ...
Quotemy worst problem is identifying which side of the car the gas cap is on, and also if it is internal or external release. Different rental car every week, same problem .
I've noticed on several models of cars, the instrument cluster fuel gauge will have a icon like this ">" or "<" pointing to the side the gas cap is on.
Why is the gas cap actually on different sides of the car? To spread out the cars at gas stations? I drive two vans regularly, both French, but on the Citroën the gas cap is on the right side, on my Renault on the left side... I prefer the left side. You can still pump if the cap is on the other side, but this is hard with my car as I cannot get the hose all the way around the van with it's tall back.
It shouldn't really matter which side the cap is on as the pump should reach both sides of the car. Here in the UK they certainly do although some people still aren't aware of this so they wait in a line for the pump on their side when I just go to the empty pump and stretch the pipe :colorful:
Here I find most caps are on the right hand side of the car so those with them on the left are at an advantage when it comes to finding a vacant pump.
QuoteWhy is the gas cap actually on different sides of the car? To spread out the cars at gas stations? I drive two vans regularly, both French, but on the Citroën the gas cap is on the right side, on my Renault on the left side... I prefer the left side. You can still pump if the cap is on the other side, but this is hard with my car as I cannot get the hose all the way around the van with it's tall back
That is actually a very interesting question and even tho the main jobs I had in 1970's were pumping gas at full serivce stations I never thought about why they dont standardize the gas cap to one side of the car, its probably just a car design thing.
I sometimes wonder how/if all the gas fumes I breathed in while working pumping gas are affecting my health :crazy:, when I worked in Delaware in the winter time I'd stoop down next to the car to get outa the winter wind, sometimes I wouldnt bother to ask the driver to turn off the car so I got gas and exhaust fumes....woo-hoo!!!
My health
is reasonable good for a 56yo overweight, 30yr (ex)smoker, ex truck driver :-D.
QuoteYou're lucky you didn't "drive off", tearing off the hose and having gasoline showering down in the immediate area. (I still don't know how that guy did it.)
There is a station on US 17 between Charleston and Georgetown, SC where the pump did the same thing to me as I stood there and held it while pumping
When I worked as a pump monkey, oppps I mean pump jockey people were always cutting thru the far side of our lot to avoid a traffic light, one night a drunk came thru the main pump lanes at about 40mph and took out an entire pump, from the ground up, luckily it was way late at nite with no customers so I just went to the breaker panel and shut off all power, there wasnt much gas loss and no fire and I got to home early that night!
yes, luckily a lot of newer cars have the arrow on the dash... just not all of them!
Just a few comments on this thread:
I generally don't mind if passing through NJ (or much less likely OR) to have to let someone pump my gas. It seems like a waste of my time and a silly way to "create jobs" or whatever arguments they use. If full service stations made economic sense, there would be a whole lot more of them in the other 48 states.
The first time I was in Orgeon about 10 years ago, I wasn't aware that they were the "New Jersey of the west" on this and I got out and started to pump my own gas. The attendant was downright hostile when I told him I didn't mind doing it myself. I told him I didn't know about the law but I was almost sure he was going to call the authorities because I touched the gas pump.
As for cash/credit pricing, I have always wondered how they got away with it given that most MC/Visa merchant agreements prohibit it. Here in Amsterdam, NY, there is at least one station that offers a 5 cent/gal cash discount. I rarely go there, though, since another station down the block always matches their price and has no cash discount/credit card surcharge.
On member/grocery discounts: a regional grocery store chain here (Price Chopper) recently started a gas discount program with their loyalty/discount cards. Unlike other programs I've seen, it is not attached to store-based stations (like Stop N' Shop) but it is good at any Sunoco in the region. You get 10 cents/gal for each $50 spent in the store. Since I shop there anyway, I've been using it and have gotten as much as 30 cents off since the dicsounts accumulate.
On diesel availability: I've seen more and more stations around here offering it. It's still probably well under half of stations, but I would no longer have a concern buying a car that burns diesel because of any fear over availability.
Most cars around here have the cap on the driver's side. This has the interesting effect of often making one side of the pumps get more crowded than the other depending on where the more common entrance is. One station I frequent is on a one way street. There's only one entrance and one exit. The right side from the entrance is always full of people, sometimes someone's even waiting in line. The left side is usually empty, which is good for me because my cap is on the passenger side and I can always pull right up! :cool:
Which side it's on is probably little more than where the gas tank fits more conveniently in the car design. And it can vary even on the same type of car. My father's 1999, 2002, and 2005 Sentras all had a drivers side cap. His 2009 Sentra has it on the passenger side. Nissan switched it. Because.
IMHO,
Gas cap side:
It seems to me that all of the car companies should just get together and pick a side and as models are redesigned, that would be the side.
Old guy mode. Back when I was a kid, it was not uncommon for "sporty cars" to place the filler behind the liscense plate, which the plate and its holder formed a little door. A few years ago I was at a station and this 16 year old was in front of me looking very confused. I showed him were the filler was on the 70s AMC Javelin he apparently had borrowed. He was amazed.
Current cars have a little arrow on the gage to show which side the cap is on. Back before that was common, when you rented a car, the big companies had a card that slipped over the sunvisor that had info on stuff like this.
Pump accuracy:
In the US, some government agency inspects this, but really you are just taking their word for it. Generally pumps have a sticker that covers the inspection. The agency involved varries from state to state. Labor department, Agriculture department, Consumer Protection agency, State Police. In some states it is a county function. Ohio is like that, with pumps inspected by the "County Auditor". In my state its the Labor department, which also inspects store scales, elevators, amusement park rides and any other mechanical device that is regulated.
Only a very few states inspect the actual fuel for octane rating. Its not uncommon to pay for premium and get regular.
Lead:
I have not seen leaded gasoline for a very long time. I was a kid when unleaded came in. Pumps were one no-lead and two lead. This quickly switched to two no and one lead and by the time I was driving leaded gasoline was totally gone.
QuoteMy father's 1999, 2002, and 2005 Sentras all had a drivers side cap. His 2009 Sentra has it on the passenger side. Nissan switched it.
Looks like your dad is happy with his Sentras :nod:. I bought a hatchback new in 1982 and because of my party 24/7 lifestyle :pan: :no: it was totally trashed by 1989. :pan: The newer Sentras are even more stylish and look to be build sturdier.
Does anyone know of any recent model cars where the gas cap is behind the rear license plate like the old Javelin, remember those? You pulled the top of the license plate down like an oven door?
What was the car model that had the gas cap behind one of the tail lights?
What other unusual gas cap locations do you know of?
Where is the cap on the new VW Bugs? Remember the old 60-70's bugs it was under the front bonnett. :nod: :-D
QuoteGas cap side:
It seems to me that all of the car companies should just get together and pick a side and as models are redesigned, that would be the side.
I agree SP, lets work on that, shall we? :)
Quote from: SP Cook on August 27, 2009, 07:44:11 PM
Its not uncommon to pay for premium and get regular.
A related thing to watch out for... perfectly legal, but nonetheless... in the midwest, gas pumps tend to sell 87, 89, and 91 octane. If the 89 is less expensive than the 87, then it contains ethanol made from corn. Also, it gives you shitty gas mileage! I remember driving in Nebraska with a car that reliably got 34 mpg highway and filling up with that 89, and getting 27 on the next tank. Would've been a lot better off with the 87.
QuoteI have not seen leaded gasoline for a very long time.
last time I saw it was an abandoned gas station in northeast Oklahoma. 83 Octane, Leaded!
Quote from: allniter89 on August 27, 2009, 07:57:02 PM
QuoteMy father's 1999, 2002, and 2005 Sentras all had a drivers side cap. His 2009 Sentra has it on the passenger side. Nissan switched it.
Looks like your dad is happy with his Sentras
one Sentra every 3-4 years? My dad is happy with his Honda Accords; he has bought an '86, a '92, a '99 and an '06!
the '86 was actually totalled in an accident; he swears to this day it was the best car he has ever driven. And from what I know, I can't disagree. 51 miles per gallon highway with the manual transmission!
Unusual cap locations.
Pre 70s Chevy trucks had the gas cap at about door handle level just behind the driver's door. Dangerous as heck.
A common option on 80s trucks was dual gas tanks (why a person would want to carry around 50 plus gallons of fuel is beyond me, unless one lived in the rural part of Manitoba or Wyoming or whatever. ) On Fords, there were two gas caps on the driver's side, one in front of and one behind the rear tire. On Chevys, there was a gas cap on both sides.
The original Diesel Rabbit had a dealer installed second tank as well, which took the place of the spare tire and the storage space behind the rear seat. It was more gimmick than practical deal, but you could drive almost across the country without stopping. You filled the extra tank by lifting what would have been the rear hatch.
Quote from: SP Cook on August 27, 2009, 08:54:23 PM
Unusual cap locations.
My parents 1972 Chevelle Malibu had the license plate gas cap.
I know there may have been some other cars like the first one I owned, a 1977? Dodge Monaco, that I rode in and/or drove that had it but I can't remember for sure or know if I am right or wrong about the Monaco.
QuoteUnusual cap locations.
The old VW Beetles had the fuel cap under the front hood in the storage area.
Some pickups had a fuel cap on the rear fender over the rear tire.
IIRC some Corvettes had the fuel cap facing up (skyward) outside directly behind the passenger compartment.
It seems there was a car that had the fuel cap behind a tail light, you pulled on the tail light and it swung open like a door. Anyone remember that?
Quote from: allniter89 on August 27, 2009, 10:19:56 PM
QuoteUnusual cap locations.
The old VW Beetles had the fuel cap under the front hood in the storage area.
Was this on all old VW Beetles. My dad had a '65 and then a '68 Beetle and I don't recall having to open the hood to fill up the gas tank especially the '68 one as I drove that one and I'm sure I had to put gas in it some times. Or, is my memory failing on this one?
Quote from: mightyace on August 27, 2009, 10:32:54 PMWas this on all old VW Beetles. My dad had a '65 and then a '68 Beetle and I don't recall having to open the hood to fill up the gas tank especially the '68 one as I drove that one and I'm sure I had to put gas in it some times. Or, is my memory failing on this one?
My mom had a 70 Beetle which had a fuel door on the front panel.
About the gas tank side:
If one side of the pumps is busier, so what if your gas tank is on that side of your car? Drive around the pumps! :pan:
I once drove a '58 Schploinker Garbanzo XH with the fuel door located halfway to Binghamton. :ded:
Some comments:
- I try to read the large, obvious number on or above the pump, but I sometimes forget. Most times I can just point out my car.
- My mom's Oldsmobile Delta 88 had the gas cap behind the license plate, which made it easier to park on either side of a pump.
- DTP: You'd be amazed how many people don't pull around the pumps!
- I've never seen an arrow pointing toward the side with the gas cap
That's all for now.
Quoteone Sentra every 3-4 years?
Yeah. My parents lease all their cars. :rolleyes:
QuoteIf one side of the pumps is busier, so what if your gas tank is on that side of your car? Drive around the pumps!
Not a practical option at the station I'm talking about. Here's a little diagram:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg408.imageshack.us%2Fimg408%2F4880%2Fgasstation.png&hash=d3a9375c51c76e2ce95381affdcbdb12f9c70d34)
The right side of the pumps, naturally, fills up with everyone and their driver's side caps. But getting around to the left side means doing one of three things:
1) going around everybody on the right, making an even sharper swerve into the station off of Summer Street than normal, and squeezing past and around them in really tight geometry.
2) going along the left and making a broken U-turn in a tight space which everyone else wants to go throught to leave the station
3) going past Forest Lawn Avenue and making a sharp 180° turn in the exit (towards the top of the diagram).
All three are tricky/sneaky maneuvers. One is actually illegal.
If this was in New York (or Boston), you'd see people pulling one of those three moves all the time when the right side filled up. But it's in Stamford, and people usually drive
somewhat more civilly around here. So it doesn't happen.
In the UK most of the cars over here also tend to have caps on the driver's side so the one side of the pumps in Duke87's example will have a line of cars waiting whilst the other is hardly used. As I said earlier, I will either perform a turn and park facing the opposite direction with the driver's side near the pump or in stations where I know the pipe is long enough I will park with the pump on the passenger side and just stretch the pipe across.
There is a small town in the south of England with just a single gas station which has a one way system and when I parked facing the opposite way the clerk wouldn't authorize the pump so instead of waiting in a long line I carried on to the next town with just a few miles showing on the dashboard before I was empty. I'm sure the monopoly the garage has in this town means they can get away with making customers wait.
One simple way around this problem would be for cars to have a single fuel tank but with caps on both sides. I can't see this being a problem for auto makers and it would reduce the queuing you see at the pumps on the driver's side.
Duke: Couldn't you make a right turn onto Forest Lawn Ave, pull past the entrance, and back into the station?
QuoteDuke: Couldn't you make a right turn onto Forest Lawn Ave, pull past the entrance, and back into the station?
The line of waiting cars which backs up onto the street there fairly frequently. So at those times, no, you'd have to put your car in ghost mode and drive through people to do that.
And when it isn't backed up.... I haven't shown this on the diagram, but Summer Street has a pretty sharp curve right before there (from the bottom left of the diagram). People come whipping around it pretty fast, and continue to whip right into the gas station if they're going there (Summer Street is three lanes and a direct route straight into the heart of downtown. It can get very pedal to the metal, especially during the morning rush hour). So while you could attempt it, it's dangerous because if someone else is coming looking to get into the station, you're going to be backing right through the spot they're going to want to whip through. And they won't be expecting you to be doing that, so they won't be looking out for it. In other words, you'd be asking for a nasty accident.
Pulling into the Summer Street entrance and turning all the way back towards Forest Lawn before backing up would have the same problem, albeit to a lesser degree.
Luxembourg is a tiny country located in northwest Europe. It's primarily known for cheap gasoline, generally € 0.40 per liter cheaper (that translates to a $ 2.20 per gallon difference with neighboring countries). Since there are no border controls, it's quite easy to fill up in Luxembourg.
It may result in busy gas stations though:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi28.tinypic.com%2F2mcun91.jpg&hash=8f5f17b376123d43e894c516ac5103db070d502a)
Or how about this:
Martelange is a town located on the border of Belgium and Luxembourg. The road is the border, so the gas stations fall under the Luxembourg tax laws. This tiny town has the main street (N4) lined up with gas stations.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3408%2F3444014861_d1cda4ec6d.jpg&hash=b4fd8d1ece98c92bc7e258805aed1fb1bea122d2)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3581%2F3444014981_8b83e3edd5.jpg&hash=53b0a293fd01ad3c0fe02efde15d8d269e987597)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3581%2F3444834030_59ce4defb4.jpg&hash=2392486f52dcf6c630859e91537f671bb5068a1f)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3557%2F3444834284_2c7730ebf1.jpg&hash=356562587665d166e3b6c0513f4397147d64c577)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3367%2F3444015471_494ff48ee5.jpg&hash=5d3b4272fcca8d2c8b42025dbea8c562d3212d70)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3656%2F3444015733_607a5a511c.jpg&hash=37087242711c510ae515cf7ddf099e909cc280a2)
Quote from: Chris on August 31, 2009, 12:30:54 PM
Or how about this:
Martelange is a town located on the border of Belgium and Luxembourg. The road is the border, so the gas stations fall under the Luxembourg tax laws. This tiny town has the main street (N4) lined up with gas stations.
I've never seen so many gas stations in a row before. It looked like there were two separate Shell stations...that's kinda ridiculous, given the abundance of stations in that short stretch.
That brings up a thought:
I remember growing up in Las Vegas, the corner of Rainbow Blvd (SR 595) & Westcliff Dr had two Arco stations: one on the southwest corner (without convenience store) and another on the southeast corner (with an AM-PM store). I always thought that was rather odd. I realize now it was probably the result of a buyout of some sort, and was a smart move. Given that Rainbow's interchange with US 95 (the "Rainbow Curve") is on the north side of this intersection and NDOT owns the north corners right of way, the ARCO stations had a monopoly on gas at this intersection. Interestingly, with some Vegas area ARCO buyouts that happened in the late 90s/early 2000s, both of these ARCO stations are now Chevron stations.
So, have you ever seen two identical gas stations adjacent to one another? Is it a common occurrence anywhere?
I think it's pretty common, but then again, I live near a pair of PDQ gas stations (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2805+Fish+Hatchery+Rd,+Madison,+WI&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&split=0&gl=us&ei=BimcSoixG-L3nQeE-OWVCA&ll=43.035913,-89.402404&spn=0.007669,0.01929&z=16&layer=c&cbll=43.03699,-89.405139&panoid=iygC6Nas95oh7QkIVt150g&cbp=12,123.06,,0,5) on opposite sides of Fish Hatchery Rd. My guess is that one is for northbound traffic and the other is for southbound. Talk about convenience!
Quote from: roadfro on August 31, 2009, 03:05:38 PM
I've never seen so many gas stations in a row before. It looked like there were two separate Shell stations...that's kinda ridiculous, given the abundance of stations in that short stretch.
Yes, but I imagine there's the demand from Belgian drivers who will come this far because of the lower prices. At least every station in the pictures seems to be charging the same price unlike the US where I've seen a bunch of stations in a line and the price can be as much as 10c a gallon different. I naturally fill up at the cheapest in these circumstances.
Quote from: roadfro on August 31, 2009, 03:05:38 PM
So, have you ever seen two identical gas stations adjacent to one another? Is it a common occurrence anywhere?
Yes, there's some normal two lane roads over here with same company gas stations each side of the road, one example has a sign saying 'Nearside services 250yds' as the one on the opposite side is visible first. The signs are to stop people turning across the flow of traffic who don't realise the nearside station is just around the bend.
roadfro: At 19th Avenue (Route 1) and Judah in San Francisco's Sunset neighborhood, two 76 stations operate across from each other. I think one of them used to be a BP, before the then-BP franchisee (Tosco) switched over to 76 ca. 1998...they tend to charge the same prices, and provide options for both northbound and southbound travelers (as 19th does not allow left turns).
Quote from: roadfro on August 31, 2009, 03:05:38 PM
So, have you ever seen two identical gas stations adjacent to one another? Is it a common occurrence anywhere?
I wouldn't say "common" but not terribly unusual. There are several locations in Nashville where there are two Mapco's close together, this is the result of buyouts of some kind. And I can think of one location with two Shell stations at it.
In my home town of Bloomsburg, there were two Exxon (originally Esso) stations across US 11 from one another.
On King St. (VA 278) here in Hampton, there are three 7-Elevens in close proximity that all have gas. I believe they are all visible from US-258 (Mercury Blvd)'s overpass over it, though one might be obscured by trees during the summer.
There are two Hess gas stations near the Carousel Mall in Syracuse, one on either side of Hiawatha Boulevard. Here's a map (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.065047,-76.174457&spn=0.009218,0.029311&z=16). One is on the northwest side of the road near the mall entrance. The other is on the southeast side of the road, at the corner of Hiawatha and Pulaski. There are no turn restrictions, but Hiawatha is usually very busy and it's just easier to use the one on your side.
QuoteLuxembourg is a tiny country located in northwest Europe. It's primarily known for cheap gasoline, generally € 0.40 per liter cheaper (that translates to a $ 2.20 per gallon difference with neighboring countries). Since there are no border controls, it's quite easy to fill up in Luxembourg.
And to think, all the "cheap" gas everybody's crowding there for works out to $5.37 US a gallon. :ded:
Quote from: wandering drive on August 31, 2009, 03:51:46 PM
I think it's pretty common, but then again, I live near a pair of PDQ gas stations (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2805+Fish+Hatchery+Rd,+Madison,+WI&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&split=0&gl=us&ei=BimcSoixG-L3nQeE-OWVCA&ll=43.035913,-89.402404&spn=0.007669,0.01929&z=16&layer=c&cbll=43.03699,-89.405139&panoid=iygC6Nas95oh7QkIVt150g&cbp=12,123.06,,0,5) on opposite sides of Fish Hatchery Rd. My guess is that one is for northbound traffic and the other is for southbound. Talk about convenience!
That's not the only location in the Madison area that has that.
There are two near US 18/151 (Verona Road) on McKee Road - one on each side of the highway. :pan:
A couple of comments, since the quote buttons just aren't working today:
I had a '79 Dodge with the gas cap under the rear license plate. As for driver's side vs. passenger side, I think more cars have the gas cap on the driver's side simply because it's more convenient for the driver. It would be nice if car makers did put a gas cap on both sides of the tank; on rare occasions, I have run into the hose that isn't long enough to reach the driver's side on my current car when I parked the car with the passenger side to the pumps.
Looking at those pictures of Luxembourg, I never realized that Gulf gasoline still existed! That brand disappeared from the States decades ago.
hm insulators: IIRC, the Gulf brand is also used for a bunch of stations in the Northeast as well...
We used to have Chevron in the Netherlands... that one also disappeared decades ago.
Quote from: TheStranger on September 09, 2009, 06:44:58 PM
hm insulators: IIRC, the Gulf brand is also used for a bunch of stations in the Northeast as well...
Okay, I stand corrected. I've never been to the northeast, although that's one part of the country I would love to see! Especially this time of year when the leaves start to turn.
Metro Denver has MANY corners where two Conoco stations are across from one another. Heck, there's a Conoco-branded Circle K and a Shell-branded Circle-K within ONE BLOCK of each other on Denver's Colorado Blvd (SH2). :banghead:
If going to get gas were as inconvenient as that station in Stamford sounds, I'd just get gas somewhere else. Too many business establishments in this country for me to give money to one that doesn't allow me to get things done easily. Although I have a passenger side gas tank, so I'd not have problems there.
On Route 13 in Springfield, MO, right by the DDI, there are two Kum & Go stations right next door to each other. They're both built to K&G building standards, ruling out any sort of takeover. Wonder what the deal is there?
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 12, 2009, 08:20:53 AM
Kum & Go
who on earth came up with that name? Ron Jeremy in a white sheet??
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 12, 2009, 10:41:01 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 12, 2009, 08:20:53 AM
Kum & Go
who on earth came up with that name? Ron Jeremy in a white sheet??
The founder's names had the initials K&G. So they changed the spelling to suit. They have fun with it... when I was living in Springfield, which has tons of K&G's, their slogan was "We Go All Out", or something like that. All humor aside they are one of my favorite gas station chains. You can get a fountain drink for something ridiculous like 79¢ and if you go back another time to refill the cup you get a discount.
they are a good chain; I've gotten good gas mileage out of them in general. I've used them mainly in North Dakota.
On the automatic pumping thing, here in NY I believe that it's illegal to have automatic gas pumps. You have to hold the lever down yourself.
QuoteQuoteKum & Go
who on earth came up with that name? Ron Jeremy in a white sheet??
And then there's Wawa.
Where they get away with selling gas for so cheap because they put wawa in it. :-P
Oklahoma City has a Circle K Shell and a Circle K Conoco on opposite sides of I-40 at Meridian
Wisconsin has Kwik Trip. Iowa (and Minnesota?) has Kwik Star (both the same company). They're notorious for clerks welcoming a pump to Kwik Trip when it is used with the intent to pay inside (Wisconsin doesn't require pre-payment for gas). Also everyone who steps up to the checkout is asked if they bought fuel (annoying, but justifiable).
Quote from: Master son on September 14, 2009, 02:56:05 PM
Wisconsin has Kwik Trip.
How do they avoid lawsuits from the Tulsa-based QuikTrip?
Three words: Freshly baked cookies. :drool:
They just call themselves "Kwik Star" in areas where they would be confused with QuikTrip, I guess.
I'm guessing there's some sort of an agreement between (Quik/Kwik) Trip to some effect prescribing that setup. I bet there was a lawsuit at some point.
Reminds me of a somewhat similar situation. There is a restaurant in Mattoon, Illinois which opened up in the 1950s and registered a trademark for their name with the state of Illinois. Unfortunately for them the name they picked for their restaurant was Burger King. Unbeknownst to them, there was another hamburger restaurant with that name which started up in Miami. Burger King of Florida ended up growing into a franchise chain which eventually wanted to open up stores in Illinois. The Burger King of Illinois people said no, you can't do that, we have an Illinois trademark on that name so we are the only people in Illinois who can use that name. The Florida people said well we have a Federal trademark that trumps yours. They went to court and eventually agreed that while BK of Florida legally had rights to the name, since BK of Illinois had been operating under that name for an established period, they would get to keep the name, and BK of Florida would stay out of the Mattoon area.
QuoteReminds me of a somewhat similar situation. There is a restaurant in Mattoon, Illinois which opened up in the 1950s and registered a trademark for their name with the state of Illinois. Unfortunately for them the name they picked for their restaurant was Burger King. Unbeknownst to them, there was another hamburger restaurant with that name which started up in Miami. Burger King of Florida ended up growing into a franchise chain which eventually wanted to open up stores in Illinois. The Burger King of Illinois people said no, you can't do that, we have an Illinois trademark on that name so we are the only people in Illinois who can use that name. The Florida people said well we have a Federal trademark that trumps yours. They went to court and eventually agreed that while BK of Florida legally had rights to the name, since BK of Illinois had been operating under that name for an established period, they would get to keep the name, and BK of Florida would stay out of the Mattoon area.
I vaguely remember BK of Mattoon. Much better than the "national" BK.
I also remember some the older traffic signals: late at night, they would go to flash cycle, flash 3-4 times, then resume normal cycle. Wish I'd had a camera then.
FWIW, I the "national" BK had a great sign along Western Ave somewhere between 127th and 119th (Chicago area). I think it was a king sitting on a burger.
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 15, 2009, 08:20:14 AM
I'm guessing there's some sort of an agreement between (Quik/Kwik) Trip to some effect prescribing that setup. I bet there was a lawsuit at some point.
Reminds me of a somewhat similar situation. There is a restaurant in Mattoon, Illinois which opened up in the 1950s and registered a trademark for their name with the state of Illinois. Unfortunately for them the name they picked for their restaurant was Burger King. Unbeknownst to them, there was another hamburger restaurant with that name which started up in Miami. Burger King of Florida ended up growing into a franchise chain which eventually wanted to open up stores in Illinois. The Burger King of Illinois people said no, you can't do that, we have an Illinois trademark on that name so we are the only people in Illinois who can use that name. The Florida people said well we have a Federal trademark that trumps yours. They went to court and eventually agreed that while BK of Florida legally had rights to the name, since BK of Illinois had been operating under that name for an established period, they would get to keep the name, and BK of Florida would stay out of the Mattoon area.
I don't know if there have been any lawsuits, but there is a restaurant/bar in Catawissa, PA (about 5 miles from Bloomsburg) that has been there forever and goes by the name Cracker Barrel. I knew of this place long before I'd heard of the Lebanon, TN based Cracker Barrel chain. Now, there's a Cracker Barrel (TN) restaurant near Bloomsburg at the Buckhorn exit (Exit 232 on I-80). That national and the local Cracker Barrel are about 6 miles apart via PA 42! (Bloomsburg also used to have a Hollywood Video movie rental store which was also an independent, but it's been closed for years now.)
Quote from: US71 on September 15, 2009, 02:38:59 PM
I also remember some the older traffic signals: late at night, they would go to flash cycle, flash 3-4 times, then resume normal cycle. Wish I'd had a camera then.
what is the purpose of doing that?
[quite]Quote from: US71 on September 15, 2009, 13:38:59
I also remember some the older traffic signals: late at night, they would go to flash cycle, flash 3-4 times, then resume normal cycle. Wish I'd had a camera then.
what is the purpose of doing that?[/quote]
I always figured it was a glitch in the controllers. Maybe they were supposed to flash, but something was broken.
I wonder if it was an indicator that they were resetting for the night, and starting up their daily program again. Kind of a status indicator, at the time of their least use.
Quote from: Chris on August 23, 2009, 04:15:19 PM
I have heard some stories about gas stations in the US. Is it true that most of them do not have self-service, but that some employee of the gas station fills up for you? Because this is very uncommon in Europe, where virtually all gas stations are self-service or even automated where you pay at a machine. (no staff).
New Jersey doesn't have self service stations, but nearly every other state does. Many have an "attendant" who supposedly can come out if you are disabled and need help, but I've noticed many stations are "understaffed" and have no one to help.
Price-wise, most stations are the same price cash or credit. The difference was more prevalent 10-12 years ago, but not as much today. Wal-Mart offers a discount if you use their branded credit card or a prepaid gift card. A few stations in my town still offer a 3 cent cash discount, but it's rare.
Nearly every freeway exit has at least one gas station. It may be "Bubba's Quik Serve" and be 10 cents higher then the next station 5 miles up the road, but you can
almost always find a station.
Not every gas station sells Diesel. You don't necessarily have to go to a truckstop to get it, but you may have to search for it. If the station is next to a freeway, there is a good chance they will have diesel. If there is more than one station at an exit, one may have diesel and the other may not.