CB radios and audio cassettes, for me.
At least with the latter, it's not a big deal. I know where to get cassettes and cassette decks. With CB radios, however, there need to be people to talk to on them, and there just aren't anymore. Even many of my fellow truckers no longer actively use them. Perhaps I should move the eastern Ohio Valley area to rectify this? Much of it is not served by any of the cellular carriers, and as such, CB radios seem to still be popular in the area.
Google maps replacing paper maps/atlases. I love to collect paper maps and have them around, but for convenience and everyday use, having Google maps on a phone/ computer is infinitely better.
Vinyl records, irrelevant with things like MP3 files, but luckily there is a large subculture of collectors and vinyl enthusiasts out there.
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 21, 2015, 03:23:24 PM
Google maps replacing paper maps/atlases. I love to collect paper maps and have them around, but for convenience and everyday use, having Google maps on a phone/ computer is infinitely better.
I'd expand this to include an historical paper trail in general. Old, outdated information is only semi-preserved online. It's very valuable to understand how and why information has evolved, and when there are not old editions of things to compare, that richness of the record is lost.
The future of civilization.
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on April 21, 2015, 03:16:27 PM
CB radios and audio cassettes, for me.
At least with the latter, it's not a big deal. I know where to get cassettes and cassette decks. With CB radios, however, there need to be people to talk to on them, and there just aren't anymore. Even many of my fellow truckers no longer actively use them. Perhaps I should move the eastern Ohio Valley area to rectify this? Much of it is not served by any of the cellular carriers, and as such, CB radios seem to still be popular in the area.
My dad, in his last years, could not get the reason why no one was answering him on his CB. Could not. He was in a tech rut that seemed to happen about the time CB's and VCR's first came out. I kept telling him that only truckers use CB's, and he was nowhere near an interstate. Even in the early 90's, he still had CB's wired in his cars. I've often wondered what he would think of the presence of cell phones, much less the smartphone-and-app technology. If he knew what some phones go for these days, he'd have an s- fit like he did when cigarrettes went over $1 a pack.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 21, 2015, 03:48:02 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 21, 2015, 03:23:24 PM
Google maps replacing paper maps/atlases. I love to collect paper maps and have them around, but for convenience and everyday use, having Google maps on a phone/ computer is infinitely better.
I'd expand this to include an historical paper trail in general. Old, outdated information is only semi-preserved online. It's very valuable to understand how and why information has evolved, and when there are not old editions of things to compare, that richness of the record is lost.
This. When some small organization printed and mailed a newsletter, it was easy for a library to just hold on to a copy. Now that they're on the web, the news depends on having picture files and style files and they're no longer self-contained. If the organization kept an archive at all, they don't bother to preserve it after the organization moves on.
Individuals no longer correspond on paper, and who bothers to keep their parents' emails or text messages when they are cleaning out their estate?
PDF solves the newsletter problem by containing everything in one file.
As for CB, I recall about a year ago I tried to listen on one of my handhelds and got nobody. I live in one of the most densely populated regions of the country, you'd think there would have been some traffic. 15 years ago channel 19 used to be chock full of traffic, not anymore.
Driving ... was way more pleasant in the old days when people weren't on the phone all the time and actually drove the proper speed and used turn signals.
Paper Maps.
Music...for the most part. EDM sucks. At least disco had lyrics and meaning.
Barricade Lights. No longer used in Texas. Less need due to brighter sheeting.
School. Paper homework and exams were better, especially in math because you could do your work on the paper and not have to re-write the problem. Also, teachers would give partial credit. Now, if on a multi-step problem, you get 1 part out of 10 wrong, the whole thing is counted wrong. A human grader would give partial credit. Online math homework and exams are very unfair for this reason, and should be abolished.
Quote from: Brian556 on April 21, 2015, 06:33:08 PM
School. Paper homework and exams were better, especially in math because you could do your work on the paper and not have to re-write the problem. Also, teachers would give partial credit. Now, if on a multi-step problem, you get 1 part out of 10 wrong, the whole thing is counted wrong. A human grader would give partial credit. Online math homework and exams are very unfair for this reason, and should be abolished.
Depending on the level of school. My friend the aeronautical engineering major said the department policy was no partial credit, because if the wings fall off nobody cares that you had the theory right.
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Vinyl records, irrelevant with things like MP3 files, but luckily there is a large subculture of collectors and vinyl enthusiasts out there.
Vinyl records are making a comeback. The sound quality is much better than these digitized mp3 files.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on April 21, 2015, 05:02:10 PM
PDF solves the newsletter problem by containing everything in one file.
That was the original idea, but actually PDF is a ridiculously complex, constantly changing format. That allows Adobe to continue to sell new versions of PDF creation programs. In order to preserve readability for the ages, you'd need to save a PDF reader from the year along with the document. And probably a contemporary computer, too.
Quote from: I-39 on April 21, 2015, 07:17:56 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Vinyl records, irrelevant with things like MP3 files, but luckily there is a large subculture of collectors and vinyl enthusiasts out there.
Vinyl records are making a comeback. The sound quality is much better than these digitized mp3 files.
I would agree with this. The guitar player in our band was determined enough to have our album put out on vinyl that he shelled out a pretty penny to press 300 copies (Of course, the fact it was double-vinyl made it pretty $$$) - and then mostly gave them away to the people we know who might actually pay for it. Putting out a vinyl album was something, as he described, on his "bucket list" (not that he is THAT old yet)
Quote from: Mr_Northside on April 21, 2015, 07:48:43 PM
Quote from: I-39 on April 21, 2015, 07:17:56 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 21, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Vinyl records, irrelevant with things like MP3 files, but luckily there is a large subculture of collectors and vinyl enthusiasts out there.
Vinyl records are making a comeback. The sound quality is much better than these digitized mp3 files.
I would agree with this. The guitar player in our band was determined enough to have our album put out on vinyl that he shelled out a pretty penny to press 300 copies (Of course, the fact it was double-vinyl made it pretty $$$) - and then mostly gave them away to the people we know who might actually pay for it. Putting out a vinyl album was something, as he described, on his "bucket list" (not that he is THAT old yet)
vinyl is coming back, of course it won't ever be big again, but new die hard collectors are born everyday.
Remember when watching a movie on television was an "event", and if you missed it, you had to wait a year?
To further clarify.... prior to the 1980s, it was very unusual for a household to have more than one television. Plus, this was before VCRs (never mind DVDs, BluRays, and streaming media), so you had to catch the movie at the appointed time on television. Some movies, such as Sound of Music, The Ten Commandments, and The Wizard Of Oz were considered "event" films, and were shown only once a year at best. Thus, the viewing of the film was "special".
Now, of course, we have DVDs and BluRays, and collecting movies was, for quite a while, considered fashionable. We are able to view the films at any time we can, in the original aspect ratios and unmodified by broadcast standards or edited to fill a time slot. In some cases, you can find an obscure film that is rarely shown on television. Still, there is that specialness of the event that is missing.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on April 21, 2015, 05:02:10 PM
As for CB, I recall about a year ago I tried to listen on one of my handhelds and got nobody. I live in one of the most densely populated regions of the country, you'd think there would have been some traffic. 15 years ago channel 19 used to be chock full of traffic, not anymore.
I had the same experience around the same time. I used to use CBs with my friends back in the early 90s, and there was a lot of local non-trucker use in my area of NJ then (Philly burbs). I went many years without a CB and about a year or so ago my wife bought me a handheld CB after hearing me talking about my old CB days. Absolutely nothing out here (closer to the shore). No trucks, no locals, nothing - even after a few rides up and down the GSP. I still have it in the car, but it's relegated to the glovebox.
Quote from: kkt on April 21, 2015, 07:36:58 PM
That was the original idea, but actually PDF is a ridiculously complex, constantly changing format. That allows Adobe to continue to sell new versions of PDF creation programs. In order to preserve readability for the ages, you'd need to save a PDF reader from the year along with the document. And probably a contemporary computer, too.
The PDF 1.7 format has been standardized as ISO standard 32000-1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format#ISO_Standardization
There are plenty of readers and source code out there to work with it. Adobe has added extensions to it, but most people don't actually use them.
Quote from: Brian556 on April 21, 2015, 06:33:08 PM
EDM sucks. At least disco had lyrics and meaning.
Actually, I feel the lyrics have become more disposable as I age, so the removal of cliches, discarding overused themes, and avoiding predictable statements/rhymes altogether permits the listener to decide for themselves what the music means on a more personal level. Maybe dance music isn't really the avenue for that, but there was lots of instrumental 1950s-1960s rock/pop music with no lyrics, plenty of jazz standards without a single spoken word, and centuries of classical music that preceded this trend. Whether it's made by a few pushbuttons, entirely sampled, covered in its entirety, composed in a broom closet, or performed by an orchestra of over one hundred musicians in tuxedos makes no difference to me...if you like that piece enough. That's not to say I write off all music with lyrics, but it's far from
required to make it enjoyable.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 21, 2015, 03:48:02 PM
I'd expand this to include an historical paper trail in general. Old, outdated information is only semi-preserved online. It's very valuable to understand how and why information has evolved, and when there are not old editions of things to compare, that richness of the record is lost.
While I echo the sentiment that a lot of recorded history might miss preservation, I assume it's always been that way...there's millions of untold and lost stories and things consigned to landfills of dust which have been long-gone throughout the ages, since either records weren't kept, were not required in the long term, physical space reasons, or just discarded for a lack of interest.
The question remains, won't most of it be boring ephemera anyhow? Do ten thousand people all need to collect the same exact things? And will anyone two generations in the future care, or need to know everything? I suppose that depends on how much present information is stored, backed-up, and shared in the future - as well as when (or if) that data becomes public domain information.
Quote from: ZLoth on April 21, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
Remember when watching a movie on television was an "event", and if you missed it, you had to wait a year?
Yes...but having premium movie channels when I was a kid sort of changed all of that, along with getting a VCR. Sporting events are about the only types of events like that, although musical performances and theatrical productions could make a case for it as well. People still enjoy concerts, and arenas or stadiums are still packed in some cities.
It's kind of less of an event, but if you're still excited or interested to see a movie, I still get about the same enjoyment (probably because I'll only find time for a half-dozen a year). While going to the movies as child was an event that also occurred maybe 5-6 times a year, and that made those a little more "special", the excitement wasn't dulled by hundreds of action movies, comedies, and other films which kind of evens out the nostalgia factor a bit.
Having movies and the like ready on an easily-reusable format are tremendously helpful when you have kids, or tremendously enjoy the movie or series. You couldn't reasonably do that 35-40 years ago, and the idea of "selling" the movie 6 months after it left the theaters (or sooner) is really only 25 years old. but I guess that kind of made the movie event something more important, rather than a thing you can idly pay attention to while doing something else.
Other than that, there's not a lot I feel is genuinely lost by technology. It hasn't kept all of its "promises" anyhow, so we fall back to nostalgia and old ways of doing things. I think the biggest disappointment is a general lack of backward-compatibility for old games or software, due to copyright laws. It's a disposable medium once the player or console no longer functions, which has turned me off from the whole process for about a decade now.
Reel to reel recorders. I wanted one badly in the 80s but could never afford one...there's a small niche market out there for them but there's a good chance the unit will have to be overhauled to get it to work right.
If I had the cash I'd still get one...
Quote from: Brian556 on April 21, 2015, 06:33:08 PM
Driving ... was way more pleasant in the old days when people weren't on the phone all the time and actually drove the proper speed and used turn signals.
Drivers have been terrible since long before the cell phone came along.
Quote
Music...for the most part. EDM sucks. At least disco had lyrics and meaning.
Why am I not surprised that you hate electronic music? As far as lyrics go, there are a lot of electronic songs that are very meaningful. Listen to some of BT's lyrics sometime. You simply don't understand the genre and have made broad generalizations about it. Go back and listen to your Garth Brooks and Metallica.
Lots of electronic music is either instrumental or uses short repeating vocal samples with no verses and choruses.
Have we really almost gotten through an entire page without button copy being mentioned? And photocopiers made the 1928—1995 design of US currency too easy to copy, so we had to endure the trauma of Series 1996. Of course, cash in general is nowhere near as important as it used to be.
But for real, I love technology. Wouldn't want to live in any other time period but the 2010's. I can't wait to see what neat stuff we invent in the next 50 years.
Quote from: kkt on April 21, 2015, 07:16:07 PMDepending on the level of school. My friend the aeronautical engineering major said the department policy was no partial credit, because if the wings fall off nobody cares that you had the theory right.
I had an engineering physics test: no calculators, no formula sheets, no working marks.
When we asked (I wasn't too fussed) we were told that in the real world, in a jam, you wouldn't get any of that. Lecturer took our points about the real world being very different to exam conditions (in the real world, an electronic engineer would be able to talk and eat, and above all be next to a computer and thus have calculator and formula sheet) but said that the test is the way it is.
I had a nasty exam where the differential equations were so long that they took up more than a line, and working marks stopped as soon as you went off piste by making a tiny mistake. This was really so they could be lazy marking it: they have 4 or 5 lines in the mark scheme and if you have a line in your working identical (hopefully functionally identical) you got a mark, but no effort to follow your thought process that at lower levels (even nationally marked ones) we'd have been given all but one mark if not.
They couldn't care less about whether we understood the theory, or not. I'd have preferred no working marks at, as then the exam would have had to have been about the theory, rather than epic algebraic calculation that no one would ever do without a computer in the real world. Partially as I just scrapped a pass thanks to the exam, having got 2 or 3 working marks on every question, and about 2 questions right. But I understood the theory perfectly well!
Quote from: english si on April 22, 2015, 04:37:19 AM
Quote from: kkt on April 21, 2015, 07:16:07 PMDepending on the level of school. My friend the aeronautical engineering major said the department policy was no partial credit, because if the wings fall off nobody cares that you had the theory right.
I had an engineering physics test: no calculators, no formula sheets, no working marks.
When we asked (I wasn't too fussed) we were told that in the real world, in a jam, you wouldn't get any of that. Lecturer took our points about the real world being very different to exam conditions (in the real world, an electronic engineer would be able to talk and eat, and above all be next to a computer and thus have calculator and formula sheet) but said that the test is the way it is.
I had a nasty exam where the differential equations were so long that they took up more than a line, and working marks stopped as soon as you went off piste by making a tiny mistake. This was really so they could be lazy marking it: they have 4 or 5 lines in the mark scheme and if you have a line in your working identical (hopefully functionally identical) you got a mark, but no effort to follow your thought process that at lower levels (even nationally marked ones) we'd have been given all but one mark if not.
They couldn't care less about whether we understood the theory, or not. I'd have preferred no working marks at, as then the exam would have had to have been about the theory, rather than epic algebraic calculation that no one would ever do without a computer in the real world. Partially as I just scrapped a pass thanks to the exam, having got 2 or 3 working marks on every question, and about 2 questions right. But I understood the theory perfectly well!
i just graduated with a degree in civil engineering, and had a similar experience in all of my math classes not allowing calculators, it was very annoying!
My mother was in a class one time and said her professor didn't give partial credit because "You build bridge, bridge fall down, no partial credit" (she wasn't an engineering major, so I'm not sure exactly how that professor came up with that analogy)
Quote from: kkt on April 21, 2015, 04:07:18 PMThis. When some small organization printed and mailed a newsletter, it was easy for a library to just hold on to a copy. Now that they're on the web, the news depends on having picture files and style files and they're no longer self-contained. If the organization kept an archive at all, they don't bother to preserve it after the organization moves on.
This fragmentation is a problem, but it can be addressed--to an extent--using Web archiving software. I think the deeper concern is that a lot of material worth archiving is on the "deep Web," i.e., the parts of the Web for which you need to supply authentication for access.
Quote from: kkt on April 21, 2015, 04:07:18 PMIndividuals no longer correspond on paper, and who bothers to keep their parents' emails or text messages when they are cleaning out their estate?
In this family we still exchange greeting cards, and when I wish to signal commitment to an issue, I still write a proper business letter and send it via snail mail instead of relying on email, though I no longer keep a paper copy for my own records--instead, I retain a PDF copy.
My grandmother (who passed away in 2011) is the last member of our family who has died. She did not text, so there were no SMS messages to archive (there are now smartphone apps to export SMS messages, one of which I successfully used to transfer texts between an old smartphone and its replacement, with a copy left on my PC hard drive as a backup). I would have liked to have archived her emails but another family member got to her laptop before I did and we have not yet received a copy of the hard drive contents.
Even paper records are destroyed willy-nilly in the wake of a death, and are easily compromised by bad storage practices.
I have a large plastic bag of greeting cards and letters my grandmother kept that I intercepted on its way to the trash ("Most of these people are dead anyway" was the excuse). This is only a small fraction of the cards and letters she received in her lifetime and I suspect most of them were trashed--some by her when she was still living, and probably some when her house was being gone through.
My mother has a new policy of saving only greeting cards and letters themselves, not the envelopes they come in. This is bad archiving practice because the envelopes contain significant information (such as postmarks) that cannot reliably be inferred from the contents. My mother asked me, "Don't you think this is a wonderful way to save room?" Translation: "Don't tell me this is a bad idea." I pick my battles.
As with families, so with governments. The US is a relative packrat by international standards--the US Government saves about 20% of the documentation it produces and stores it partly in a central NARA repository in College Park and partly in satellite NARA facilities around the country. As a result, you can pull construction vouchers for pretty much any Interstate you are interested in, but the tradeoff is that you have to journey in person to the NARA facility that has it and fill out forms in triplicate to view it (few documents are imaged and there is no online ordering). In contradistinction, the British government saves about 3%, and keeps nearly all of it at the National Archives in Kew, west London, where it is online-orderable, and some of it has been imaged. The flip side is that some files mention other interesting files that have been trashed. As an example, when I was researching early British motorway proposals from the 1920's, I found references to a file on the Southern Motor Road Bill (an attempt to obtain powers to build a London-Brighton motorway using the same private bill mechanism that was used to promote railways in the nineteenth century and later the Mersey Tunnel in the 1930's), which I have not been able to find in years of searching and suspect is lost forever.
Quote from: NJRoadfan on April 21, 2015, 09:42:28 PM
Quote from: kkt on April 21, 2015, 07:36:58 PMThat was the original idea, but actually PDF is a ridiculously complex, constantly changing format. That allows Adobe to continue to sell new versions of PDF creation programs. In order to preserve readability for the ages, you'd need to save a PDF reader from the year along with the document. And probably a contemporary computer, too.
The PDF 1.7 format has been standardized as ISO standard 32000-1.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Document_Format#ISO_Standardization
There are plenty of readers and source code out there to work with it. Adobe has added extensions to it, but most people don't actually use them.
PDF is essentially a container standard and Adobe has worked to make it as broad as possible--a PDF file can contain video, HTML, active elements, even viruses. In practice, however, as NJRoadfan points out, it is almost universally used as an e-paper format, and for archiving purposes the capabilities of various PDF reading software are far less important than bad practice when confecting PDFs, such as failure to embed fonts so that the appearance of the PDF document does not change when it is viewed on devices that do not have the same document fonts installed. This is why some state
Standard Highway Signs analogues are worthless--some state DOTs are too scared of SignCAD (or whoever) to embed the
SignCAD fonts to create true device-independent PDFs. Colorado DOT's Sign Library is a classic example of what happens if you don't embed fonts.
It is also worth noting that failure to comply with the PDF-A archiving standard (which recent versions of
Acrobat now enforce by prohibiting alterations to PDF-A documents) does not necessarily mean that a PDF is not archival.
QuoteSchool. Paper homework and exams were better, especially in math because you could do your work on the paper and not have to re-write the problem. Also, teachers would give partial credit. Now, if on a multi-step problem, you get 1 part out of 10 wrong, the whole thing is counted wrong. A human grader would give partial credit. Online math homework and exams are very unfair for this reason, and should be abolished.
My college Calculus classes do not have this issue. Though we are usually allowed to use calculators or a computer graphing program, we are still required to write out and "show our work". And the professor does give partial credit.
QuoteHave we really almost gotten through an entire page without button copy being mentioned?
Wasn't an issue for me. Though in full disclosure, I grew up in a non-button-copy state that also happens to be home to the company that's developed high-intensity reflective sheeting...
Quote from: bugo on April 22, 2015, 12:44:28 AM
Quote
Music...for the most part. EDM sucks. At least disco had lyrics and meaning.
Why am I not surprised that you hate electronic music? As far as lyrics go, there are a lot of electronic songs that are very meaningful. Listen to some of BT's lyrics sometime. You simply don't understand the genre and have made broad generalizations about it. Go back and listen to your Garth Brooks and Metallica.
+1.
Not all EDM is heavy dubstep type stuff like Skrillex makes that many people like to criticize. Some like to use actual musical instruments to make their songs. Big Gigantic (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPrgVald-fc), for example, likes to use the saxophone.
Quote from: formulanone on April 21, 2015, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: ZLoth on April 21, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
Remember when watching a movie on television was an "event", and if you missed it, you had to wait a year?
Yes...but having premium movie channels when I was a kid sort of changed all of that, along with getting a VCR. Sporting events are about the only types of events like that, although musical performances and theatrical productions could make a case for it as well. People still enjoy concerts, and arenas or stadiums are still packed in some cities.
It's kind of less of an event, but if you're still excited or interested to see a movie, I still get about the same enjoyment (probably because I'll only find time for a half-dozen a year). While going to the movies as child was an event that also occurred maybe 5-6 times a year, and that made those a little more "special", the excitement wasn't dulled by hundreds of action movies, comedies, and other films which kind of evens out the nostalgia factor a bit.
Having movies and the like ready on an easily-reusable format are tremendously helpful when you have kids, or tremendously enjoy the movie or series. You couldn't reasonably do that 35-40 years ago, and the idea of "selling" the movie 6 months after it left the theaters (or sooner) is really only 25 years old. but I guess that kind of made the movie event something more important, rather than a thing you can idly pay attention to while doing something else.
I understand your points. The point I was making was that the scarcity of the movie made it more special to watch. Prior to the 1980s, depending on the area, you had 2-3 network stations plus 1-2 independents. Perhaps it is the nostalgia factor. Would I want to go back to that? Nope. I prefer my wall o'movies in my closet. I have some series and movies that are so niche and not well known in my collection. Anyone else have the following:
- 5ive (1951)
- 6ixtynin9 (Thai, 1999)
- Mamoru Oshii's Avalon (2000)
- Series 7: The Contenders (2001)
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 22, 2015, 07:06:37 AM
i just graduated with a degree in civil engineering, and had a similar experience in all of my math classes not allowing calculators, it was very annoying!
My job revolves around dealing with $100,000—$150,000 in cash every single day.
There is a calculator at every single workstation, and of course Windows has a calculator too, just in case something happens to that one.
When the result matters, you simply can't rely on the human brain.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2015, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 22, 2015, 07:06:37 AM
i just graduated with a degree in civil engineering, and had a similar experience in all of my math classes not allowing calculators, it was very annoying!
My job revolves around dealing with $100,000—$150,000 in cash every single day.
There is a calculator at every single workstation, and of course Windows has a calculator too, just in case something happens to that one.
When the result matters, you simply can't rely on the human brain.
Nowadays you are never far from a calculator, all cellphones have them too.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 22, 2015, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 22, 2015, 07:06:37 AM
i just graduated with a degree in civil engineering, and had a similar experience in all of my math classes not allowing calculators, it was very annoying!
My job revolves around dealing with $100,000—$150,000 in cash every single day.
There is a calculator at every single workstation, and of course Windows has a calculator too, just in case something happens to that one.
When the result matters, you simply can't rely on the human brain.
I guess it's my age showing, but I always double-check important calculations in my head.
My reasoning is:If I calc in my head, I may forget to "carry the 1" but the power of 10 is mostly likely to be correct in my answer. A calculator only gives you the correct answer to what you type in ("GIGO") and an error like a missed decimal point in entry could potentially yield any answer. The double-check of one with the other gives me confidence in the answer.
But I'm old, so....
I'm much more reliable when it comes to keying the problem into the calculator than I am not slipping up and thinking 7+4=10, or 5+3=9, or something dumb like that. That, and our calculators are actually adding machines, so I can double-check my entry by glancing at the tape before I go with it.
It's the little errors that I have to worry about, not the powers of 10; if I try to add $173.62 and $197.33 and get $19,906.62 it's obvious that I typoed somewhere. If I do it in my head and forget to carry a one and pay the customer $270.95 instead of $370.95 then I get written up (acceptable error range is ±$25).
I always loved 45 RPM singles. They had much richer sound than CD's.
Quote from: bandit957 on April 23, 2015, 11:45:12 AM
I always loved 45 RPM singles. They had much richer sound than CD's.
I've been to too many loud concerts to be able to tell the difference.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 23, 2015, 06:27:50 AM
I'm much more reliable when it comes to keying the problem into the calculator than I am not slipping up and thinking 7+4=10, or 5+3=9, or something dumb like that. That, and our calculators are actually adding machines, so I can double-check my entry by glancing at the tape before I go with it.
It's the little errors that I have to worry about, not the powers of 10; if I try to add $173.62 and $197.33 and get $19,906.62 it's obvious that I typoed somewhere. If I do it in my head and forget to carry a one and pay the customer $270.95 instead of $370.95 then I get written up (acceptable error range is ±$25).
I know that there's been occasions where, for example, I tipped 10% instead of 20%. I don't know why I would do that, other than I was just distracted and forgot my normal method of tipping. Or add two somewhat easy numbers incorrectly. Yet, if someone were to ask me to add $179.73 and $286.07, I would instantly think $180 + $286 = $466. Take 27 cents away, add back 7 cents for a net of 20 cents less, thus $465.80. I would have a harder time remembering the numbers told to me than I would adding them up!
Even with a calculator, some arithmetic experience helped during temp jobs in finance areas. Sums disagree by a multiple of 9 == look for a pair of swapped digits.
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 22, 2015, 07:06:37 AMi just graduated with a degree in civil engineering, and had a similar experience in all of my math classes not allowing calculators, it was very annoying!
IIRC, due to odd university rules, the ONLY exams that calculators were allowed were maths ones, where a scientific calculator was rarely needed.
Most lecturers wangled exceptions to the rule.
Quote from: OracleUsr on April 22, 2015, 07:22:57 AM
My mother was in a class one time and said her professor didn't give partial credit because "You build bridge, bridge fall down, no partial credit" (she wasn't an engineering major, so I'm not sure exactly how that professor came up with that analogy)
Thank goodness I'm an Arts student now, so the marking is rather subjective, but at least I can get decent marks if I disagree with the lecturer if they take a shine to the way I disagree with them (sometimes works, sometimes really doesn't - especially when I attack the fundamental assumption of the module).
When skip is running, go to Ch. 6 AKA The Super Bowl. You'll hear all that classic CB crap going on!
38 LSB is also good for listening in to the DX.
Rick
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 23, 2015, 12:03:40 PM
I know that there's been occasions where, for example, I tipped 10% instead of 20%. I don't know why I would do that, other than I was just distracted and forgot my normal method of tipping. Or add two somewhat easy numbers incorrectly. Yet, if someone were to ask me to add $179.73 and $286.07, I would instantly think $180 + $286 = $466. Take 27 cents away, add back 7 cents for a net of 20 cents less, thus $465.80. I would have a harder time remembering the numbers told to me than I would adding them up!
I thought that I was the only one who did math in my head along those lines. It's nice to see that I'm not the only one who arrives at answers that way.
As for tipping, I tend to lean towards 20% myself, and I will calculate it by figuring out 10% of the tab and then multiplying by 2. If service was particularly bad and the server was rude or inattentive (especially if I could see that he/she wasn't busy, I will cut someone whom I can see is overworked some slack), then I will lean towards 10%. Fortunately, those experiences for me have been quite rare.
The manual transmission, and, generally, cars that required you to drive them, not merely steer and brake them.
The ability to be away from work when on vacation.
The ability to live in a legal grey area and circumvent minor laws.
Conversations about things where both parties speculated on the possible answer without looking up the answer on their phones.
The need to memorize.
I think a lot of the increasing black-and-whiteness of our society is a result of technological advances. With the "right" answer only a click away, people have the ability to form stronger opinions and a greater propensity to think they know everything. The 24-hour news cycle caused by technology hasn't helped it either. The internet also makes it easy to access thousands of people who share your opinion without having to talk to anybody that doesn't. That's a boon, for, say, the road enthusiast community but for political/religious groups that aren't hobby focused I'm not sure that it's that healthy. We're more connected than ever but that has oddly given us the ability to live more in a bubble than ever.
I've become much less into TV, and watchmore things (news, sports, YouTube) on the web.
Quote from: corco on April 23, 2015, 06:05:25 PM
The internet also makes it easy to access thousands of people who share your opinion without having to talk to anybody that doesn't. That's a boon, for, say, the road enthusiast community
Or not, if you're a roadgeek who doesn't share the groupthink.
Quote from: NE2 on April 23, 2015, 06:14:47 PM
Quote from: corco on April 23, 2015, 06:05:25 PM
The internet also makes it easy to access thousands of people who share your opinion without having to talk to anybody that doesn't. That's a boon, for, say, the road enthusiast community
Or not, if you're a roadgeek who doesn't share the groupthink.
Remember East Coast Hive Mind? Fuck being part of a hive.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on April 21, 2015, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on April 21, 2015, 05:02:10 PM
As for CB, I recall about a year ago I tried to listen on one of my handhelds and got nobody. I live in one of the most densely populated regions of the country, you'd think there would have been some traffic. 15 years ago channel 19 used to be chock full of traffic, not anymore.
I had the same experience around the same time. I used to use CBs with my friends back in the early 90s, and there was a lot of local non-trucker use in my area of NJ then (Philly burbs). I went many years without a CB and about a year or so ago my wife bought me a handheld CB after hearing me talking about my old CB days. Absolutely nothing out here (closer to the shore). No trucks, no locals, nothing - even after a few rides up and down the GSP. I still have it in the car, but it's relegated to the glovebox.
Handheld CBs don't work well at all. Their range is severely limited by that little "rubber ducky" antenna. CB antennas should not be shorter than 36" physically (and not less than 108" electrically).
I usually hear some chatter in the densely populated areas. 'Course I run a 6-1/4 foot antenna, with counterpoise underneath...and I just bought a 7-foot antenna that will be installed soon.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FbTsj6VIh.jpg&hash=94da77b82fd1f0de4f4b65fa3941ec84864bee8d)
I miss the over-the-air shortwave broadcasts that most foreign countries have eliminated in favor of web sites. I'd much rather listen to a radio broadcast on an actual radio instead of relying on my computer.
Quote from: bugo on April 24, 2015, 05:24:20 AM
Remember East Coast Hive Mind? Fuck being part of a hive.
That was just Calrog being Calrog. And then CC took the joke and ran with it.
Quote from: Brian556 on April 21, 2015, 06:33:08 PM
Barricade Lights. No longer used in Texas. Less need due to brighter sheeting.
That appears to be the case in most states nowadays for barricade and drum lights. Many states have also eliminated the need for drums on tangent sections of lane closures and allow cones instead.
On the subject of media such as movies or music being too readily available, consider this picture:
(https://iusedtohavehair.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/2233315367_8871da4061.jpg)
Note the look in that woman's eyes upon receiving 11 new 8-track tapes. Sure, that's done as an exaggerated promotion, but it drives home a point: back when music was an object you "possessed", you were often excited about listening to a new record or tape; if you enjoyed it, you might play it over and over again until it eventually wore out. Albums were far more cherished then.
Would that lady be just as excited about receiving a Spotify premium account, which is the equivalent of, say, a 53-foot trailer full of different 8-tracks (OK, probably way more than that), and with better sound quality?
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on April 24, 2015, 12:05:36 PM
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on April 21, 2015, 09:31:36 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on April 21, 2015, 05:02:10 PM
As for CB, I recall about a year ago I tried to listen on one of my handhelds and got nobody. I live in one of the most densely populated regions of the country, you'd think there would have been some traffic. 15 years ago channel 19 used to be chock full of traffic, not anymore.
I had the same experience around the same time. I used to use CBs with my friends back in the early 90s, and there was a lot of local non-trucker use in my area of NJ then (Philly burbs). I went many years without a CB and about a year or so ago my wife bought me a handheld CB after hearing me talking about my old CB days. Absolutely nothing out here (closer to the shore). No trucks, no locals, nothing - even after a few rides up and down the GSP. I still have it in the car, but it's relegated to the glovebox.
Handheld CBs don't work well at all. Their range is severely limited by that little "rubber ducky" antenna. CB antennas should not be shorter than 36" physically (and not less than 108" electrically).
I usually hear some chatter in the densely populated areas. 'Course I run a 6-1/4 foot antenna, with counterpoise underneath...and I just bought a 7-foot antenna that will be installed soon.
I have a good size magnet mount antenna for my handheld CB, for when I use it in the car. Still got nothing with it. There could be just something wrong with the CB itself of course. Back in the day I had a regular radio with mic in the car (still have it somewhere around the house - Uniden I think), with at first a Cobra magnet mount and later a K40 I believe. It worked great at the time. I'll give the new radio another shot and see if I can break 1-9 for a radio check on the way home.
Quote from: ZLoth on April 21, 2015, 08:45:50 PM
Remember when watching a movie on television was an "event", and if you missed it, you had to wait a year?
To further clarify.... prior to the 1980s, it was very unusual for a household to have more than one television. Plus, this was before VCRs (never mind DVDs, BluRays, and streaming media), so you had to catch the movie at the appointed time on television. Some movies, such as Sound of Music, The Ten Commandments, and The Wizard Of Oz were considered "event" films, and were shown only once a year at best. Thus, the viewing of the film was "special".
Now, of course, we have DVDs and BluRays, and collecting movies was, for quite a while, considered fashionable. We are able to view the films at any time we can, in the original aspect ratios and unmodified by broadcast standards or edited to fill a time slot. In some cases, you can find an obscure film that is rarely shown on television. Still, there is that specialness of the event that is missing.
Same with Christmas specials.
Quote from: bugo on April 23, 2015, 11:57:02 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on April 23, 2015, 11:45:12 AM
I always loved 45 RPM singles. They had much richer sound than CD's.
I've been to too many loud concerts to be able to tell the difference.
Aye, +1.
I can't tell the difference, other than some frequencies tend to be amplified or attenuated to certain mediums than others. Unless they used some 59-cent cassette tape, there's not much of a wholesale difference in my ears. I inherited a bunch of vinyl and a turntable from my father, but it collects dust alongside my CD collection - unwieldy to use for no appreciable gain.
Is there a noticeable difference between $2 headphones and $20 headphones? Yes.
Do I notice a difference between $200 headphones and $20 headphones? Probably not.
Is a song played over FM radio "missing something" over an album copy? You betcha.
But MP3 versus a CD, it's rarely noticeable to my tin ears.
...to each their own.
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on April 24, 2015, 12:05:36 PM
Handheld CBs don't work well at all. Their range is severely limited by that little "rubber ducky" antenna. CB antennas should not be shorter than 36" physically (and not less than 108" electrically).
My handhelds have really long pull out antennas, easily 3-4ft in length.
(not my video, but shows the antenna)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S3IeeB2SzA
Quote from: formulanone on April 25, 2015, 10:24:15 AM
Quote from: bugo on April 23, 2015, 11:57:02 AM
Quote from: bandit957 on April 23, 2015, 11:45:12 AM
I always loved 45 RPM singles. They had much richer sound than CD's.
I've been to too many loud concerts to be able to tell the difference.
Aye, +1.
I can't tell the difference, other than some frequencies tend to be amplified or attenuated to certain mediums than others. Unless they used some 59-cent cassette tape, there's not much of a wholesale difference in my ears. I inherited a bunch of vinyl and a turntable from my father, but it collects dust alongside my CD collection - unwieldy to use for no appreciable gain.
Is there a noticeable difference between $2 headphones and $20 headphones? Yes.
Do I notice a difference between $200 headphones and $20 headphones? Probably not.
Is a song played over FM radio "missing something" over an album copy? You betcha.
But MP3 versus a CD, it's rarely noticeable to my tin ears.
...to each their own.
It's called "lack of dynamic range"...most, if not all of the recordings made in most music since the 90s has the problem of wanting to be "louder" than the other group/genre/whatever, so the way they accomplish that is by boosting and compressing the level of the signal to the point where it starts to clip...which doesn't do any good to your ears, your receiver/power amp or your speakers.
All of the CD's I purchased in the 80's and early 90's all have signal levels below clipping, all my newer ones are compressed all to hell and I can tell because they force me to reduce the volume.
All that's needed to fix it it some sanity in the mastering process...good luck with that.
Quote from: DeaconG on April 25, 2015, 01:46:08 PM
It's called "lack of dynamic range"...most, if not all of the recordings made in most music since the 90s has the problem of wanting to be "louder" than the other group/genre/whatever, so the way they accomplish that is by boosting and compressing the level of the signal to the point where it starts to clip...which doesn't do any good to your ears, your receiver/power amp or your speakers.
All of the CD's I purchased in the 80's and early 90's all have signal levels below clipping, all my newer ones are compressed all to hell and I can tell because they force me to reduce the volume.
All that's needed to fix it it some sanity in the mastering process...good luck with that.
Agreed. A well documented example was Rush's Vapor Trails album, which sounds absolutely terrible. Eventually they remixed and rereleased the album 10 years later, which helped the sound to some extent, leaving just my complaints about the mediocre songs to begin with (of course typical for 90s/00s Rush).
My entry to this thread is the near death of pinball machines. When I was a kid in the 70's, many corner stores and even some of the local discount stores had at least one machine in a corner. When coin-op video games became the rage by the mid-80s, stores and local arcades started to phase out the pins in favor of the vids because there were less parts to maintain and the games were non-stop (on a pinball, you can take a rest between balls as they sit waiting to be launched, or you could hold a pinball on a raised flipper).
But nowadays, even arcades and coin-ops in businesses are on the decline since many of these games can be had on a smart-device and can be played anywhere or the Nintendo or Play Stations have matched or exceeded what could be done on arcade-style games.
That being said, I love the fact that there are tech companies that have created apps that have faithfully re-created pinball machines of the past, like Pinball Arcade. Now you can play pinball machines anywhere and not have to worry about weak or non-working bumpers, flippers, etc due to the lack of maintenance by the establishment that owns the machines.
There are still times where I will plunk in a quarter or 2 to play a real pinball machine in places that still have a few of them.
Quote from: thenetwork on April 25, 2015, 07:54:41 PM
My entry to this thread is the near death of pinball machines. When I was a kid in the 70's, many corner stores and even some of the local discount stores had at least one machine in a corner. When coin-op video games became the rage by the mid-80s, stores and local arcades started to phase out the pins in favor of the vids because there were less parts to maintain and the games were non-stop (on a pinball, you can take a rest between balls as they sit waiting to be launched, or you could hold a pinball on a raised flipper).
But nowadays, even arcades and coin-ops in businesses are on the decline since many of these games can be had on a smart-device and can be played anywhere or the Nintendo or Play Stations have matched or exceeded what could be done on arcade-style games.
That being said, I love the fact that there are tech companies that have created apps that have faithfully re-created pinball machines of the past, like Pinball Arcade. Now you can play pinball machines anywhere and not have to worry about weak or non-working bumpers, flippers, etc due to the lack of maintenance by the establishment that owns the machines.
There are still times where I will plunk in a quarter or 2 to play a real pinball machine in places that still have a few of them.
http://www.vpforums.org/
All your favoriite pinball games - for the low-low price of 0.
One of the watering holes that I frequent here in Appleton has a working Skee-Ball machine, 25¢/game.
:cool:
Mike
Quote from: thenetwork on April 25, 2015, 07:54:41 PM
My entry to this thread is the near death of pinball machines. When I was a kid in the 70's, many corner stores and even some of the local discount stores had at least one machine in a corner. When coin-op video games became the rage by the mid-80s, stores and local arcades started to phase out the pins in favor of the vids because there were less parts to maintain and the games were non-stop (on a pinball, you can take a rest between balls as they sit waiting to be launched, or you could hold a pinball on a raised flipper).
But nowadays, even arcades and coin-ops in businesses are on the decline since many of these games can be had on a smart-device and can be played anywhere or the Nintendo or Play Stations have matched or exceeded what could be done on arcade-style games.
That being said, I love the fact that there are tech companies that have created apps that have faithfully re-created pinball machines of the past, like Pinball Arcade. Now you can play pinball machines anywhere and not have to worry about weak or non-working bumpers, flippers, etc due to the lack of maintenance by the establishment that owns the machines.
There are still times where I will plunk in a quarter or 2 to play a real pinball machine in places that still have a few of them.
I haven't been here yet myself, but:
http://silverballmuseum.com/ (http://silverballmuseum.com/)
Camaras which used film.
Quote from: DeaconG on April 25, 2015, 01:46:08 PM
It's called "lack of dynamic range"...most, if not all of the recordings made in most music since the 90s has the problem of wanting to be "louder" than the other group/genre/whatever, so the way they accomplish that is by boosting and compressing the level of the signal to the point where it starts to clip...which doesn't do any good to your ears, your receiver/power amp or your speakers.
All of the CD's I purchased in the 80's and early 90's all have signal levels below clipping, all my newer ones are compressed all to hell and I can tell because they force me to reduce the volume.
All that's needed to fix it it some sanity in the mastering process...good luck with that.
Nine Inch Nails'
Hesitation Marks comes in two versions: the regular loud clipping version and a special audiophile version that isn't mastered as loudly.
Quote from: Roadrunner75 on April 26, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on April 25, 2015, 07:54:41 PM
My entry to this thread is the near death of pinball machines. When I was a kid in the 70's, many corner stores and even some of the local discount stores had at least one machine in a corner. When coin-op video games became the rage by the mid-80s, stores and local arcades started to phase out the pins in favor of the vids because there were less parts to maintain and the games were non-stop (on a pinball, you can take a rest between balls as they sit waiting to be launched, or you could hold a pinball on a raised flipper).
But nowadays, even arcades and coin-ops in businesses are on the decline since many of these games can be had on a smart-device and can be played anywhere or the Nintendo or Play Stations have matched or exceeded what could be done on arcade-style games.
That being said, I love the fact that there are tech companies that have created apps that have faithfully re-created pinball machines of the past, like Pinball Arcade. Now you can play pinball machines anywhere and not have to worry about weak or non-working bumpers, flippers, etc due to the lack of maintenance by the establishment that owns the machines.
There are still times where I will plunk in a quarter or 2 to play a real pinball machine in places that still have a few of them.
I haven't been here yet myself, but:
http://silverballmuseum.com/ (http://silverballmuseum.com/)
Colorado is extremely pinball friendly. Just to name a few:
- The Penny Arcade in Manitou Springs -- been there and it is awesome!
- Flipper McGees in Idaho Springs -- Lots of 80s pinball games with generous credits given to breaking certain score levels.
- Hogback Pizza in New Castle -- 3-5 games from the 80s &/or 90s.
- Within the town of Lyons, Colorado -- Haven't made it there yet, but I hear there are 2 or 3 places with lots of pinballs and old video games.
I have also heard of some good arcades hidden amongst the ski town bars & restaurants as well. May want to add a stop or two during the upcoming Denver Meet.
And if you want to see your quarters go a long way in Vegas, this place is on my bucket list: http://www.pinballhall.org/
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on April 26, 2015, 02:48:28 PM
Camaras which used film.
I can't believe I forgot this. Yes.
Quote from: mgk920 on April 25, 2015, 11:07:40 PM
One of the watering holes that I frequent here in Appleton has a working Skee-Ball machine, 25¢/game.
:cool:
Mike
Most Peter Piper Pizza and Chuckie Cheese have Skee Ball
Quote from: Concrete Fucker on April 26, 2015, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on April 26, 2015, 02:48:28 PM
Camaras which used film.
I can't believe I forgot this. Yes.
I've found that a cheap digital camera takes better pictures than a cheap film camera. They're already digitized so you don't have to scan them. You don't have to pay to have them developed and a typical memory card has room for thousands of pictures so you can take a bunch of pictures of the same thing from the same vantage point and pick the best one. With film cameras, when you took a picture you would have to wait until the film got processed before you knew if it was a good picture or not. With digital photography, you can view the pictures in the viewfinder immediately and delete the bad pictures. Most modern digital cameras can also take video. Digital cameras are a better choice for what I use cameras for.
I've been starting to get into slightly more advanced photography lately (i.e. worrying about blowing out highlights more than before). My camera has a feature that flashes portions of the image that are #FFFFFF in review mode. Can't do that with film.
For some, not myself though - Shopping malls.
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2015, 03:14:04 AM
I've been starting to get into slightly more advanced photography lately (i.e. worrying about blowing out highlights more than before). My camera has a feature that flashes portions of the image that are #FFFFFF in review mode. Can't do that with film.
Nope, you can't. And that extra challenge was part of what made film-shooting so much more fun, and the reward from doing it right that much sweeter.
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 27, 2015, 08:20:01 AM
For some, not myself though - Shopping malls.
I miss proper malls. And furthermore, I miss the big fountains that used to be in many malls. Schuykill Mall in Frackville, PA had a ton of them. A couple of them are still working, so I've been told, but most of them were converted to planters in the late '90s.
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 27, 2015, 08:20:01 AM
For some, not myself though - Shopping malls.
Agreed. I haven't left any money behind in the big local mall (Fox River Mall) since at least the early double-aughts. They are sooooo 'last century' and don't turn me on at all. I might rarely walk around in one, but I'll do my shopping elsewhere.
I agree with CVG, although FRM has never had fountains (that place was literally structurally built like a warehouse - *very* cheap single-level), they did plant big Ficus trees throughout it when it was first opened in the mid 1980s, but had removed them by the late 1990s. I do miss them. (I did pick up a small trimmed twig from one from the floor when I walked around inside during the chaos a couple of days before it opened, took it home, rooted it out and the resulting tree is still alive and well in my little domicile, 30 or so years later. :nod: )
Mike
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on April 27, 2015, 11:30:01 AM
And that extra challenge was part of what made film-shooting so much more fun, and the reward from doing it right that much sweeter.
Back in my day, walking uphill both ways gave me nice strong legs.
Quote from: NE2 on April 27, 2015, 11:43:22 AMBack in my day, walking uphill both ways gave me nice strong legs.
Different strokes. I lost my enthusiasm for photography when I went digital. It's just too easy now. Plus many of the best film emulsions have all but disappeared. Provia 400F/400X was my go-to, it's long gone, 100F is the only Provia still available, which isn't bad, but is slow-speed film. I'm still going to pick up an F5, though.
I will say this: it took 15 years from the introduction of the first DSLR for digital to beat film in terms of noise levels, and it still has a little way to go in color reproduction.
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on April 27, 2015, 11:30:01 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2015, 03:14:04 AM
I've been starting to get into slightly more advanced photography lately (i.e. worrying about blowing out highlights more than before). My camera has a feature that flashes portions of the image that are #FFFFFF in review mode. Can't do that with film.
Nope, you can't. And that extra challenge was part of what made film-shooting so much more fun, and the reward from doing it right that much sweeter.
I can barely do it right with digital. I don't
need the extra challenge.
The advent of digital cameras has not repealed photographic technique. Taking a good shot with a digital camera now requires most of the same skills and tricks as taking usable photos with 35-mm color slide film. I still work with the traditional exposure rule (1/125 sec at f/16 at ISO 100 under unblocked sunshine) and I still bracket when I am unsure of exposure.
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on April 27, 2015, 11:30:01 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on April 27, 2015, 03:14:04 AM
I've been starting to get into slightly more advanced photography lately (i.e. worrying about blowing out highlights more than before). My camera has a feature that flashes portions of the image that are #FFFFFF in review mode. Can't do that with film.
Nope, you can't. And that extra challenge was part of what made film-shooting so much more fun, and the reward from doing it right that much sweeter.
But more expensive, more downtime, and frustrating if you forgot to take notes (shutter/ISO/aperture combo). Saying digital photography has ruined film photography is akin to saying electricity has ruined candles.
Quote from: silverback1065 on April 21, 2015, 03:23:24 PM
Google maps replacing paper maps/atlases. I love to collect paper maps and have them around, but for convenience and everyday use, having Google maps on a phone/ computer is infinitely better.
Paper Maps for me too......also Airline Timetables. When the new ones came out usually at the change of time twice a year......I would start at one end of the Airport Ticket Counters picking up the latest issue from each airline. Now there seems to be an updated .PDF on line every week. Just not same!
How about the old style odometers on the cars. To me I used to like watching the digits spin around and would wait for the car to turn over 10 miles, then 20, 30 etc, until the big one when the car used to turn back to zero at 100K.
Now I do not pay attention to the new digital ones nor is it any fun when the car turns over 100 thousand miles anymore. Heck I cannot even remember when and where my car turned over that amount. I usually run my trip meters and the only time I even flip to the odometer is when I take my car in for servicing as the mechanic needs to know how old your vehicle is and just how many miles driven for their paperwork.
Yes even motel directories that had the property locations with a small map and telling you step by step directions to the property was a peeve of mine to collect. Now only some publish them such as Motel 6, but the many do not anymore.
Quote from: ghYHZ on April 27, 2015, 03:08:00 PMAirline Timetables. When the new ones came out usually at the change of time twice a year......I would start at one end of the Airport Ticket Counters picking up the latest issue from each airline. Now there seems to be an updated .PDF on line every week. Just not same!
The paper airline timetables were also a narrower, booklet size; whereas the PDF version can only be printed on 8-1/2 x 11s... not exactly pocket-sized.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2015, 03:36:43 PM
How about the old style odometers on the cars. To me I used to like watching the digits spin around and would wait for the car to turn over 10 miles, then 20, 30 etc, until the big one when the car used to turn back to zero at 100K.
IIRC, the last cars to offer such were the standard instrumentation versions of 2005 Ford Crown Victoria & Mercury Grand Marquis.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2015, 03:36:43 PMYes even motel directories that had the property locations with a small map and telling you step by step directions to the property was a peeve of mine to collect. Now only some publish them such as Motel 6, but the many do not anymore.
Sad but true.
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 27, 2015, 03:52:33 PM
the PDF version can only be printed on 8-1/2 x 11s...
Because there's no such thing as printing multiple pages on one sheet and folding.
Quote from: NE2 on April 27, 2015, 04:31:43 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on April 27, 2015, 03:52:33 PM
the PDF version can only be printed on 8-1/2 x 11s...
Because there's no such thing as printing multiple pages on one sheet and folding.
Paper timetables were typically 8-1/2 x 5-1/2 sized pages.
When paper timetables first went away (IIRC, Southwest was the last domestic carrier to do away with such); many electronic (PDF) versions were still set up to so that each page was viewed as 8-1/2 x 5-1/2. However, if one wanted to print such; each page would print 8-1/2 x 11 (which would leave a fair amount of white space). If one wanted to print multiple pages on on sheet per your suggestion; the printed images would be smaller than the size of the original.
Since then several airlines have modified their formats so that either their page layouts are either full 8-1/2 x 11 (American does now this) or each page contains two 8-1/2 x 5-1/2 displays on one sheet (Delta does this). Your folding suggestion would work with Delta's current timetables but not American's.
Other carriers' websites (I checked JetBlue & Southwest) no longer feature a full complete, printable timetable except maybe via a downloadable app for a Smartphone (true for JetBlue, not so for Southwest).
Quote from: formulanone on April 27, 2015, 02:55:07 PMBut more expensive, more downtime, and frustrating if you forgot to take notes (shutter/ISO/aperture combo). Saying digital photography has ruined film photography is akin to saying electricity has ruined candles.
No, but digital has
killed off film just as electricity has
killed off candles. Both are still around, but are only really suitible for special purposes now.
I miss Typewriters!
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on April 27, 2015, 05:31:27 PM
Quote from: formulanone on April 27, 2015, 02:55:07 PMBut more expensive, more downtime, and frustrating if you forgot to take notes (shutter/ISO/aperture combo). Saying digital photography has ruined film photography is akin to saying electricity has ruined candles.
No, but digital has killed off film just as electricity has killed off candles. Both are still around, but are only really suitible for special purposes now.
Is that really a bad thing?
You can still get beeswax candles, but you can't still process Kodachrome.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 27, 2015, 02:22:51 PM
The advent of digital cameras has not repealed photographic technique. Taking a good shot with a digital camera now requires most of the same skills and tricks as taking usable photos with 35-mm color slide film. I still work with the traditional exposure rule (1/125 sec at f/16 at ISO 100 under unblocked sunshine) and I still bracket when I am unsure of exposure.
But did you learn these skills on digital or film?
The candles comparison doesn't hold up for the purposes of the conversation at hand, in my opinion, because the stakes were so much higher with film that mastering composition and exposure was more important. It had some analogue in its relationship to digital photography to that which painting had to photography period.
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 27, 2015, 02:22:51 PM
The advent of digital cameras has not repealed photographic technique. Taking a good shot with a digital camera now requires most of the same skills and tricks as taking usable photos with 35-mm color slide film. I still work with the traditional exposure rule (1/125 sec at f/16 at ISO 100 under unblocked sunshine) and I still bracket when I am unsure of exposure.
But did you learn these skills on digital or film?
The candles comparison doesn't hold up for the purposes of the conversation at hand, in my opinion, because the stakes were so much higher with film that mastering composition and exposure was more important. It had some analogue in its relationship to digital photography to that which painting had to photography period.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2015, 03:36:43 PM
Yes even motel directories that had the property locations with a small map and telling you step by step directions to the property was a peeve of mine to collect. Now only some publish them such as Motel 6, but the many do not anymore.
Old copies of those hotel/motel/inn directories are useful for urban archaeologists trying to determine what banners used to be at a particular location. But what will explorers, say, 20-30 years from now have to go on looking for properties from today? Nowadays it's mostly online directories, and those tend to be updated ASAP when they change banners. How much of a record will remain?
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on April 27, 2015, 05:31:27 PM
No, but digital has killed off film just as electricity has killed off candles. Both are still around, but are only really suitible for special purposes now.
When the automobile was invented, some people thought that there would be no need for horses anymore. There are still approximately 9 million horses in the U.S.
Quote from: lepidopteran on April 27, 2015, 10:33:02 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2015, 03:36:43 PM
Yes even motel directories that had the property locations with a small map and telling you step by step directions to the property was a peeve of mine to collect. Now only some publish them such as Motel 6, but the many do not anymore.
Old copies of those hotel/motel/inn directories are useful for urban archaeologists trying to determine what banners used to be at a particular location. But what will explorers, say, 20-30 years from now have to go on looking for properties from today? Nowadays it's mostly online directories, and those tend to be updated ASAP when they change banners. How much of a record will remain?
Old phone books are incredibly valuable in this regard, as are actual images of newspapers that include ads (as opposed to simple archives of article text).
If you do any kind of historical research, or just want to know the full picture of what existed, all kinds of this debris is valuable.
In 1999 I bought a Vivitar digital camera. The internal memory held 16 high quality images or 32 low quality images. It cost nearly $200 and the pictures it took weren't great. The pictures were a whopping 0.3 megapixels with a resolution of 640x480. It took 4 AA batteries which would die within just a few minutes of use. It came with rechargeable batteries which had slightly longer battery life but they still discharged very quickly. The plastic tabs that held the battery compartment closed broke so I had to put a bunch of rubber bands around the camera to keep the batteries from falling out of it. This camera wouldn't be acceptable even in a cheap modern phone. Fast forward 10 years later and I got a Canon camera for under $150 that takes excellent pictures. It has many features the Vivitar didn't have including a zoom lens. It has a proprietary battery with a charger. The battery lasts hours. I've never discharged it completely. The 8GB memory card I bought for it holds thousands of pictures. The camera is a 10 megapixel device.
Quote from: lepidopteran on April 27, 2015, 10:33:02 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on April 27, 2015, 03:36:43 PM
Yes even motel directories that had the property locations with a small map and telling you step by step directions to the property was a peeve of mine to collect. Now only some publish them such as Motel 6, but the many do not anymore.
Old copies of those hotel/motel/inn directories are useful for urban archaeologists trying to determine what banners used to be at a particular location. But what will explorers, say, 20-30 years from now have to go on looking for properties from today? Nowadays it's mostly online directories, and those tend to be updated ASAP when they change banners. How much of a record will remain?
I used to use these maps to show where routes ended or if two or more routes were 'plexed in a particular town. We didn't have Bing Maps back then so any map that showed smaller towns in a large scale were welcome.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 27, 2015, 10:16:11 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on April 27, 2015, 02:22:51 PM
The advent of digital cameras has not repealed photographic technique. Taking a good shot with a digital camera now requires most of the same skills and tricks as taking usable photos with 35-mm color slide film. I still work with the traditional exposure rule (1/125 sec at f/16 at ISO 100 under unblocked sunshine) and I still bracket when I am unsure of exposure.
But did you learn these skills on digital or film?
The candles comparison doesn't hold up for the purposes of the conversation at hand, in my opinion, because the stakes were so much higher with film that mastering composition and exposure was more important. It had some analogue in its relationship to digital photography to that which painting had to photography period.
My point was they're both still in use, but for varying purposes, naturally. However, I don't feel either "ruined" the other, only showed that they're clumsier to use towards the end purpose. While I haven't spent much time illuminating my house with candles, I have processed my own black and white film, and in class, inhaled much hypo while enduring dim red lighting, made my own prints, and even later reproduced them them on an offset press. Let's just say that's a tad impractical and an expensive proposition, though an enjoyable one for the times...but I don't
miss it. Sure, early (or very cheap) digital cameras had flaky results until the advent of the DSLR, but on a second look at thousands of family photos over the years, one could say that auto-focus was really needed!
Nope, digital is far easier to collect images, the wait-time for creative improvement is far shorter and less costly to become greater, in my opinion. The weakest point is the color printer, though; however, digital sharing is easy enough. I think purists are annoyed that a camera is attached to nearly any device now, although I think technique still matters above all - some people take great iPhone pics, most aren't all that good. Some people like lomography, but many people seem to have middling results. It's all in knowing the limits of the camera, composition, balance, drawing interest, having the right opportunity/moment, and maybe even emotion (probably a few other things that I'm missing).
Active (as opposed to passive) social interactions. Used to have to be a specific effort by one person to others. Now people more often broadcast their thoughts, and recipients do the electronic equivalent of nodding back.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on April 30, 2015, 10:52:48 PM
Active (as opposed to passive) social interactions. Used to have to be a specific effort by one person to others. Now people more often broadcast their thoughts, and recipients do the electronic equivalent of nodding back.
Nod.
Actually I'm not yet sure how true this is. Maybe in a few months I'll be more experienced.