It's a violation of the MUTCD, so it should be rare.
Here's a couple of signals in the same intersection:
https://goo.gl/maps/kpqYw
https://goo.gl/maps/bzr8R
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.573397,-81.207543,3a,75y,254.56h,86.11t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZYXcdS8UmgxKwHXWAWnY_A!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.905423,-74.572156,3a,75y,169.71h,92.62t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfPW4NNlAhACP42E1xG3j5Q!2e0
Does it count if one is an up arrow? Can't remember if the law is two green orbs or, indeed, just two green through signals of any type.
Either way Kek, Seattle has quite a few of these violations. I would post some if I wasn't at work. I seem to remember them being common at freeway off-ramps.
Quite common in older installations maintained by cities/towns/villages, at least in the northeast.
Glens Falls, NY has quite a few and used to have several more. There's this intersection on a city-maintained stretch of NY 9L (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.321305,-73.643441,3a,75y,348.08h,74.05t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sFUWQiPWtSO4EDActosgM7w!2e0). The NY 9L approach to the US 9/NY 9L/NY 32 intersection had a single head before the roundabout was built. Actually, if it's a 2-lane road, one head is the norm in Glens Falls unless it's been replaced within the past 10-15 years with external funding. Most of the signals on US 9 and NY 32 have been replaced or always had 2 heads/direction, while the other streets are still mainly single heads.
Most of the intersections along Washington Street in Hoboken have only a single overhead 4 way signal, with the added bonus that they are usually off to one side from a mast arm on one corner, making them sometimes easy to miss. Here's a particularly old one:
https://www.google.com/maps?ll=40.737133,-74.030535&spn=0.000004,0.00327&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.73723,-74.031019&panoid=CVkcRAU6dDD-jeNqZuAFbA&cbp=12,22.81,,0,-0.06 (https://www.google.com/maps?ll=40.737133,-74.030535&spn=0.000004,0.00327&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.73723,-74.031019&panoid=CVkcRAU6dDD-jeNqZuAFbA&cbp=12,22.81,,0,-0.06)
I cannot name any intersections in Illinois like this. IDOT mandates three through signals per direction (an two per turning direction), and has for quite some time.
Quote from: UCFKnights on April 27, 2015, 08:32:51 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.573397,-81.207543,3a,75y,254.56h,86.11t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZYXcdS8UmgxKwHXWAWnY_A!2e0
Actually, I think that's a legal signal. 'Thru' movement could also be turning. Here's an example of one in Redmond, WA: https://goo.gl/maps/hx4Kz
In your SV link, what's with the variable regulatory sign to the right of the doghouse?
Quote from: jakeroot on April 27, 2015, 09:32:51 PM
Does it count if one is an up arrow? Can't remember if the law is two green orbs or, indeed, just two green through signals of any type.
Either way Kek, Seattle has quite a few of these violations. I would post some if I wasn't at work. I seem to remember them being common at freeway off-ramps.
I think that's allowed. The green up arrow is usually used to emphasize to not turn. I don't recall violations on any freeway intersections.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 28, 2015, 02:03:16 AM
Quote from: UCFKnights on April 27, 2015, 08:32:51 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.573397,-81.207543,3a,75y,254.56h,86.11t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sZYXcdS8UmgxKwHXWAWnY_A!2e0
Actually, I think that's a legal signal. 'Thru' movement could also be turning. Here's an example of one in Redmond, WA: https://goo.gl/maps/hx4Kz
Being as "straight" goes into a parking lot, that's perfectly acceptable.
Brockport, NY still has one.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.209148,-77.945151,3a,75y,252.91h,83.4t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sAfo2nbs4VVosBs2h_M-CVQ!2e0!6m1!1e1?hl=en
It's Kek's thread, so his rules. But I don't think the old New England single overhead unit should count, since it existed before the dual-through signal rule came about. Personally, I'm more interested in installs from the last twenty years or so.
But again, Kek's thread. So his rules. I'm not thread-jacking, I swear.
Key West, FL used to have all of its traffic lights that were not on US 1 as single headed either on four way assemblies or on a box wire set up back in the early 1990's. When I went there in the late 90's they were modified to standards with two through heads.
BTW, on US 1 I assume it had two because FDOT might of not approved of them as all signals in Florida are either county or municipally maintained, so the City of Key West operates all signals even on state maintained US 1.
Montrose, PA
https://goo.gl/maps/haiDz
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 28, 2015, 02:03:16 AM
I don't recall violations on any freeway intersections.
Here's one in Federal Way:http://goo.gl/yL0KCR >>> Sorry, missed the ground-mounted signal.
And another near Des Moines:
http://goo.gl/hEXcKH
And another two in Seatac:
http://goo.gl/ut2vM4 & http://goo.gl/jCNuWx
One near Issaquah:
http://goo.gl/XbPk34
There's almost certainly more. They are common when there is one left turn lane next to a left and straight lane.
There are several set-ups around here in Huntsville with only one thru indication.
Many towns with older signals around Alabama still only have one signal per direction, or only one 4-way at the intersection. I'll post some when I get home.
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2015, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 28, 2015, 02:03:16 AM
I don't recall violations on any freeway intersections.
Here's one in Federal Way:
http://goo.gl/yL0KCR >>> Sorry, missed the ground-mounted signal.
And another near Des Moines:
http://goo.gl/hEXcKH
And another two in Seatac:
http://goo.gl/ut2vM4 & http://goo.gl/jCNuWx
One near Issaquah:
http://goo.gl/XbPk34
There's almost certainly more. They are common when there is one left turn lane next to a left and straight lane.
Those are all legal. The right signal will always have the protected left, so the thru traffic by design is turning left. (And rightfully so, since they all have dedicated right-turn bays, and traffic rarely goes straight through freeway intersections.)
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 29, 2015, 02:33:50 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2015, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 28, 2015, 02:03:16 AM
I don't recall violations on any freeway intersections.
Here's one in Federal Way:
http://goo.gl/yL0KCR >>> Sorry, missed the ground-mounted signal.
And another near Des Moines:
http://goo.gl/hEXcKH
And another two in Seatac:
http://goo.gl/ut2vM4 & http://goo.gl/jCNuWx
One near Issaquah:
http://goo.gl/XbPk34
There's almost certainly more. They are common when there is one left turn lane next to a left and straight lane.
Those are all legal. The right signal will always have the protected left, so the thru traffic by design is turning left. (And rightfully so, since they all have dedicated right-turn bays, and traffic rarely goes straight through freeway intersections.)
All of the ones here in Huntsville are like those.
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 29, 2015, 02:33:50 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2015, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 28, 2015, 02:03:16 AM
I don't recall violations on any freeway intersections.
clipped
Those are all legal. The right signal will always have the protected left, so the thru traffic by design is turning left. (And rightfully so, since they all have dedicated right-turn bays, and traffic rarely goes straight through freeway intersections.)
According to this letter between the NCDOT and the FHWA (http://goo.gl/sl3d7P), drivers cannot be expected to interpret which direction of movement is considered major, thus left turns are not considered through (only straight movements are through movements). Basically, each intersection is independent from one another, so despite the fact that continuing straight through any of these intersections would be a bit daft, it is legally the through movement, and should have a second through signal posted.
FWIW, the second SeaTac intersection has a shared left/straight/right lane.
edit: wrong link -- fixed
Here's one in Fife, WA. Left lane is left/straight and right lane is right-only. Signal has three red orbs across but the right two signals have green arrows along the bottom. The left signal is a split phase, four head signal, (top to bottom) RB/AB/GB/GA. When all directions have green, you get one left green arrow, one green orb, and two right green arrows.
Hard to follow, but check the street view and you'll see what I mean.
http://goo.gl/1VgpPa
North Tonawanda, NY has quite a few.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.025019,-78.867733,3a,75y,346.78h,82.48t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sgP3-V9NTIHPpf2ndSm_DQA!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.028849,-78.875092,3a,75y,346.84h,70.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sq1aCW9Qm84aVgMlolCo06A!2e0
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.052328,-78.878611,3a,75y,260.7h,86.34t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s02VMh0IHbrJDY0yx13GSBw!2e0
There's one along F.M. 1960 north of Houston at Humble-Westfield and Treaschwig Roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.021795,-95.387063,3a,44.9y,213.03h,87.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXiMsy_M8Vq63dMzItR6L0A!2e0
Quote from: FreewayDan on April 30, 2015, 10:58:45 PM
There's one along F.M. 1960 north of Houston at Humble-Westfield and Treaschwig Roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@30.021795,-95.387063,3a,44.9y,213.03h,87.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sXiMsy_M8Vq63dMzItR6L0A!2e0
Interesting. Not a single green ball to speak of, just the up arrow. I don't think I've ever seen something like that before.
Quote from: jakeroot on April 28, 2015, 06:27:20 PM
It's Kek's thread, so his rules. But I don't think the old New England single overhead unit should count, since it existed before the dual-through signal rule came about. Personally, I'm more interested in installs from the last twenty years or so.
But again, Kek's thread. So his rules. I'm not thread-jacking, I swear.
Does the MUTCD (or state law) require a retrofit to meet the two signal rule? IIRC, the reason for the rule is that there would still be an indication if a light bulb burned out.
At the very least, it should be a "doghouse" signal, with a yellow left upward arrow as well as a green upward arrow.
Quote from: mrsman on May 01, 2015, 02:16:48 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 28, 2015, 06:27:20 PM
It's Kek's thread, so his rules. But I don't think the old New England single overhead unit should count, since it existed before the dual-through signal rule came about. Personally, I'm more interested in installs from the last twenty years or so.
But again, Kek's thread. So his rules. I'm not thread-jacking, I swear.
Does the MUTCD (or state law) require a retrofit to meet the two signal rule? IIRC, the reason for the rule is that there would still be an indication if a light bulb burned out.
Some (well, most) of these installations are so old that their days are probably numbered. Signals don't last forever and I wouldn't be shocked if many of the single-head installations still around are 30-40 years old. Retrofits at this point would mean full replacement and it's probably coming soon anyway. No point in adding a set of signals if the entire installation will be replaced in the near future.
Here's one installed more recently, circa 2006: Reno, NV. Plumb Lane at Matley Lane (I-580/US 395 Southbound frontage/ramp)
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.506194,-119.780868,3a,21.4y,180.55h,91.32t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1spiCDrLZaYvWGmGyAn4J4vA!2e0
(Zoom out to see the geometry and other signal heads on the approach)
This is an interesting intersection. It was formerly a tight diamond with through configuration, that had awful backups during peak hours (Plumb is a major arterial to the west, feeds into the Reno airport entrance just east of here). In 2006, NDOT & RTC converted this to a modified SPUI with through configuration, but shoehorned it in to the existing diamond footprint so as to not make any modifications to the freeway viaduct structure.
The left turns at this SPUI never go together in any direction (due to geometry and traffic volumes), so it essentially runs on a split phasing. For for the southbound direction linked here, the through movement always comes on with the left turn (the southbound right turn comes on at the same time plus overlaps with the eastbound to northbound left turn). Even still, the use three left turn heads and only one through head is baffling given that, since the at least the 1990s, it has been standard practice for new signals in Nevada to provide 2 signal heads for *every* movement regardless of what is the major movement.
What about requirements for number of signals that must visible from the stop bar - i.e. - number of through signals a certain distance within or across the intersection that can be viewed by the lead car at the stop bar. I can't stand when I'm the lead car and there is either one or no signals (have to look almost straight up) that are easily visible. I'm too lazy to look in MUTCD right now for anything on this so I will rely on others.
Here's another similar example that I can't stand on NJ 440 in Jersey City. At the stop bar, the only signals visible are above the opposing lanes on a divided road or just pole mounted to one side. On a road with this much traffic, only overhead signals across the intersection will do.
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.706423,-74.099261&spn=0.000004,0.00327&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.706531,-74.099778&panoid=0paxL2rt-GRGvkET4s8SyQ&cbp=12,168.32,,0,0.11 (https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.706423,-74.099261&spn=0.000004,0.00327&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=40.706531,-74.099778&panoid=0paxL2rt-GRGvkET4s8SyQ&cbp=12,168.32,,0,0.11)
There is supposed to be a "cone of vision" both laterally and vertically, where if you are the first vehicle at a stop line, at least one signal head for your movement should be within that range. (I am also too lazy to look up in the MUTCD what these values are at the moment.)
Quote from: roadfro on May 03, 2015, 06:11:10 PM
There is supposed to be a "cone of vision" both laterally and vertically, where if you are the first vehicle at a stop line, at least one signal head for your movement should be within that range. (I am also too lazy to look up in the MUTCD what these values are at the moment.)
Yes, I am also interested in knowing but am far too lazy to look up the numbers.
Here's an intersection here in Huntsville with a one signal for a driveway:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.728219,-86.705749,3a,66.8y,270.18h,88.34t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sfqbgtlhfTVaa6FDX-SfxUg!2e0
Quote from: roadfro on May 02, 2015, 02:49:06 PM
Here's one installed more recently, circa 2006: Reno, NV. Plumb Lane at Matley Lane (I-580/US 395 Southbound frontage/ramp)
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.506194,-119.780868,3a,21.4y,180.55h,91.32t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1spiCDrLZaYvWGmGyAn4J4vA!2e0
(Zoom out to see the geometry and other signal heads on the approach)
This is an interesting intersection. It was formerly a tight diamond with through configuration, that had awful backups during peak hours (Plumb is a major arterial to the west, feeds into the Reno airport entrance just east of here). In 2006, NDOT & RTC converted this to a modified SPUI with through configuration, but shoehorned it in to the existing diamond footprint so as to not make any modifications to the freeway viaduct structure.
The left turns at this SPUI never go together in any direction (due to geometry and traffic volumes), so it essentially runs on a split phasing. For for the southbound direction linked here, the through movement always comes on with the left turn (the southbound right turn comes on at the same time plus overlaps with the eastbound to northbound left turn). Even still, the use three left turn heads and only one through head is baffling given that, since the at least the 1990s, it has been standard practice for new signals in Nevada to provide 2 signal heads for *every* movement regardless of what is the major movement.
It seems to me that this signal and the newer signals in the Seattle area mentioned upthread that only have one thru green, the green is always on for the same time as the left turn signal (no more and no less). So in essence, you do get two signals, it's just that one of them is left turning.
Plus, these are all on one-way freeway ramps. There is no cross traffic, so when you can go straight, you can go left.
So while a technical violation of MUTCD, it doesn't seem to impact safety, even if one bulb is burned out.
Another one from the Seattle-area (Tacoma). Division at North Yakima (https://goo.gl/35F3CB):
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F47MY9Hy.png&hash=b08d3c07b47d3b1bb16af9fabfeb15889c0b3ba9)
Quote from: mrsman on May 05, 2015, 03:55:40 PM
Quote from: roadfro on May 02, 2015, 02:49:06 PM
Here's one installed more recently, circa 2006: Reno, NV. Plumb Lane at Matley Lane (I-580/US 395 Southbound frontage/ramp)
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.506194,-119.780868,3a,21.4y,180.55h,91.32t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1spiCDrLZaYvWGmGyAn4J4vA!2e0
(Zoom out to see the geometry and other signal heads on the approach)
<...>
The left turns at this SPUI never go together in any direction (due to geometry and traffic volumes), so it essentially runs on a split phasing. For for the southbound direction linked here, the through movement always comes on with the left turn (the southbound right turn comes on at the same time plus overlaps with the eastbound to northbound left turn). Even still, the use three left turn heads and only one through head is baffling given that, since the at least the 1990s, it has been standard practice for new signals in Nevada to provide 2 signal heads for *every* movement regardless of what is the major movement.
It seems to me that this signal and the newer signals in the Seattle area mentioned upthread that only have one thru green, the green is always on for the same time as the left turn signal (no more and no less). So in essence, you do get two signals, it's just that one of them is left turning.
Plus, these are all on one-way freeway ramps. There is no cross traffic, so when you can go straight, you can go left.
So while a technical violation of MUTCD, it doesn't seem to impact safety, even if one bulb is burned out.
I can see the point with the left and through movements together. In the case I linked, the geometry is such that the first 1-2 through cars at the stop line will not be able see any of the left turn signal heads in a normal cone of vision. So that redundancy factor, if a driver knew the signal operation in order to look for it, is still lost.
Another off-ramp example, this one at I-96 and East Beltline Ave. (M-37/M-44):
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0WEL6QEd3ic/Ukt4tRm6xDI/AAAAAAAAAFQ/6blgmfGzVtM/s800/traffic%2520light%25202.jpg)
That doghouse signal is a thru/left signal. There is opposing traffic coming from the businesses straight ahead, but they get their own phase. Traffic going forward and left always have the green together.
Since I took this photo in 2013, the two right turn signals were replaced with "RIGHT" banners and red balls. Red arrows are rare in Michigan.
Quote from: getemngo on May 06, 2015, 06:08:47 PM
Since I took this photo in 2013, the two right turn signals were replaced with "RIGHT" banners and red balls. Red arrows are rare in Michigan.
I didn't think that was allowed anymore. Turn signals for turning movements are supposed to have red arrows, not red balls (since you could theoretically have both red and green balls lit at the same time, although in your example, it would appear that this would not happen).
Quote from: jakeroot on May 06, 2015, 06:46:35 PM
I didn't think that was allowed anymore. Turn signals for turning movements are supposed to have red arrows, not red balls (since you could theoretically have both red and green balls lit at the same time, although in your example, it would appear that this would not happen).
I'm not sure what the law is in Michigan, but I thought there were some states where a red right arrow is the equivalent of "NO TURN ON RED" but a right turn on a red ball is allowed? Because there's a "NO TURN ON RED" sign that lights up when opposing traffic has a green, it appears that MDOT intended to allow right turns on red, so perhaps they switched from arrows to balls to make this clearer.
I have never seen an instance in this entire state of a green light for through traffic and any red indication (ball or arrow) for right turning traffic at the same time.
It's a weird state when it comes to signals. Always has been. Since adopting the 2009 MUTCD, you have stuff like the redundant "LEFT" above a left red arrow. MDOT seems... confused.
Quote from: getemngo on May 06, 2015, 07:27:14 PM
Since adopting the 2009 MUTCD, you have stuff like the redundant "LEFT" above a left red arrow. MDOT seems... confused.
While I agree that it is redundant, there was no compelling reason for MDOT to remove the LEFT signage. The sign certainly predates the all arrow display. I don't see any reason to spend taxpayer dollars to remove the signage. Being redundant is definitely better than the alternative. It's also worth noting that NY and NJ often have either "Left turn signal" or "Left on green arrow only" signage on all arrow displays. I've even seen this redundancy on newer installations in NJ that were originally installed with an all arrow display (as opposed to an original red ball that was later replaced with a red arrow).
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2015, 03:12:15 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 29, 2015, 02:33:50 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on April 29, 2015, 01:15:10 PM
Quote from: KEK Inc. on April 28, 2015, 02:03:16 AM
I don't recall violations on any freeway intersections.
clipped
Those are all legal. The right signal will always have the protected left, so the thru traffic by design is turning left. (And rightfully so, since they all have dedicated right-turn bays, and traffic rarely goes straight through freeway intersections.)
According to this letter between the NCDOT and the FHWA (http://goo.gl/sl3d7P), drivers cannot be expected to interpret which direction of movement is considered major, thus left turns are not considered through (only straight movements are through movements). Basically, each intersection is independent from one another, so despite the fact that continuing straight through any of these intersections would be a bit daft, it is legally the through movement, and should have a second through signal posted.
FWIW, the second SeaTac intersection has a shared left/straight/right lane.
edit: wrong link -- fixed
I think precisely because continuing straight through an off-ramp intersection would be a bit daft, that interpretation is a bit daft. A motorist exiting a freeway can't be expected to recognize that continuing straight onto the on-ramp is not the major movement???
This isn't quite the right thread for this, but I didn't want to create a new thread for it. How about 0 thru signals?
Talbot Rd (SR 515) @ I-405 NB, Renton, WA (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.468673,-122.20796,3a,75y,206.84h,78.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svStXnn6_0cT1vWKdwdSkiQ!2e0!6m1!1e1)
I can't get the right angle (looks like the Google car drove northbound but not southbound), but there's two signals for the left turn onto the on-ramp (one on the mast arm, and one ground-mounted on the far side) and none for thru traffic, since there's no conflicting traffic. I'm sure this isn't unique, but I feel like any similar intersections I've seen would at least have green up arrows.
Quote from: Kacie Jane on May 08, 2015, 06:11:52 PM
This isn't quite the right thread for this, but I didn't want to create a new thread for it. How about 0 thru signals?
Talbot Rd (SR 515) @ I-405 NB, Renton, WA (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.468673,-122.20796,3a,75y,206.84h,78.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svStXnn6_0cT1vWKdwdSkiQ!2e0!6m1!1e1)
I can't get the right angle (looks like the Google car drove northbound but not southbound), but there's two signals for the left turn onto the on-ramp (one on the mast arm, and one ground-mounted on the far side) and none for thru traffic, since there's no conflicting traffic. I'm sure this isn't unique, but I feel like any similar intersections I've seen would at least have green up arrows.
It's really pretty common here. Here's two I found at random.
https://goo.gl/maps/3tF4t MD 122 at I-695
https://goo.gl/maps/oHfta US 1 at MD 100
Quote from: kj3400 on May 09, 2015, 12:41:12 AM
Quote from: Kacie Jane on May 08, 2015, 06:11:52 PM
This isn't quite the right thread for this, but I didn't want to create a new thread for it. How about 0 thru signals?
Talbot Rd (SR 515) @ I-405 NB, Renton, WA (https://www.google.com/maps/@47.468673,-122.20796,3a,75y,206.84h,78.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svStXnn6_0cT1vWKdwdSkiQ!2e0!6m1!1e1)
I can't get the right angle (looks like the Google car drove northbound but not southbound), but there's two signals for the left turn onto the on-ramp (one on the mast arm, and one ground-mounted on the far side) and none for thru traffic, since there's no conflicting traffic. I'm sure this isn't unique, but I feel like any similar intersections I've seen would at least have green up arrows.
It's really pretty common here. Here's two I found at random.
https://goo.gl/maps/3tF4t MD 122 at I-695
https://goo.gl/maps/oHfta US 1 at MD 100
Having green up arrows is certainly less confusing, but I don't believe it is necessary. Plus, it will save a lot on the electricity costs for the signal.
That is quite odd, as WSDOT usually has the through signals, but perhaps since there no traffic joining the through traffic, they didn't think it was needed (i.e., no need to remind through traffic that they don't need to stop).
On second thought, there is a similar setup on SR-526 at Paine Field, except traffic is entering the expressway at that point, and formerly the next intersection when traffic was turning off.
Here is one in Darlington, SC
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Darlington,+SC/@34.303706,-79.872058,3a,49.7y,83.14h,94.46t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sRe-w7RuhCj2yifYxzoRA-w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x885569491d3bb8ed:0x4f07634fd26e39a1!6m1!1e1
Another WSDOT/City of Lakewood ball-drop. Western end of SR-512 at South Tacoma Way. Road continues into a neighborhood. Right-turn lanes are a slip lane not pictured.
https://goo.gl/n1jKVZ
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1RDMbT6.png&hash=8337db35ebe94c1de9b224d720398b04ed606175)
Quote from: PColumbus73 on May 15, 2015, 04:30:50 PM
Here is one in Darlington, SC
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Darlington,+SC/@34.303706,-79.872058,3a,49.7y,83.14h,94.46t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sRe-w7RuhCj2yifYxzoRA-w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x885569491d3bb8ed:0x4f07634fd26e39a1!6m1!1e1
Conversations in this thread are making the basic assumption that a through movement exists when commenting on the lack of a second through signal head. This example does not have a through movement...
Found one along Marine Corps Drive in Guam (BTW, Google Street View now has Guam included):
https://www.google.com/maps/@13.485053,144.777013,3a,41.5y,177.6h,92.46t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1shJZvJuER_BOPCKbsTWbzCA!2e0!3e5!6m1!1e1
Quote from: FreewayDan on June 06, 2015, 01:15:22 PM
Found one along Marine Corps Drive in Guam (BTW, Google Street View now has Guam included):
https://www.google.com/maps/@13.485053,144.777013,3a,41.5y,177.6h,92.46t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1shJZvJuER_BOPCKbsTWbzCA!2e0!3e5!6m1!1e1
Huh, today I learned that Guam's traffic signals kinda look like Maryland's (https://goo.gl/maps/M0zpJ).
I recall there was one somewhere in northern N.J. (several miles from Raritan Ctr.) several years ago. If I am not mistaken, an additional traffic signal was included since then.
NY 33 near the Buffalo Airport (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.934613,-78.71732,3a,23.2y,189.54h,90.51t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1ss-1rwGcfXW8s-pLzZzBk-Q!2e0) has one facing a side road. The through movement leads to a dead-end road accessing a golf course and industrial park. Each of the turn movements does get 2 signals. This setup is found elsewhere in Region 5 when a side road is opposite a little-used service road or parking lot.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 15, 2015, 05:01:38 PM
Another WSDOT/City of Lakewood ball-drop. Western end of SR-512 at South Tacoma Way. Road continues into a neighborhood. Right-turn lanes are a slip lane not pictured.
https://goo.gl/n1jKVZ (https://goo.gl/n1jKVZ)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F1RDMbT6.png&hash=8337db35ebe94c1de9b224d720398b04ed606175)
To me, this doesn't count, as the flow of traffic is to the left, not straight.
Quote from: FreewayDan on June 06, 2015, 01:15:22 PM
Found one along Marine Corps Drive in Guam (BTW, Google Street View now has Guam included):
https://www.google.com/maps/@13.485053,144.777013,3a,41.5y,177.6h,92.46t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1shJZvJuER_BOPCKbsTWbzCA!2e0!3e5!6m1!1e1
It seems like a lot of the Guam ones are noncompliant. Here's one that is setup much like a Floridian span-wire signal.
https://www.google.com/maps/@13.477864,144.729939,3a,82.2y,352.96h,90.58t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sQe4OziUTYy5AI9zLf1vlWQ!2e0!3e5
It also seems like they have isolated phases.
Quote from: getemngo on May 06, 2015, 07:27:14 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 06, 2015, 06:46:35 PM
I didn't think that was allowed anymore. Turn signals for turning movements are supposed to have red arrows, not red balls (since you could theoretically have both red and green balls lit at the same time, although in your example, it would appear that this would not happen).
I'm not sure what the law is in Michigan, but I thought there were some states where a red right arrow is the equivalent of "NO TURN ON RED" but a right turn on a red ball is allowed? Because there's a "NO TURN ON RED" sign that lights up when opposing traffic has a green, it appears that MDOT intended to allow right turns on red, so perhaps they switched from arrows to balls to make this clearer.
Idaho is like this. Red Arrow = no turning on red. I didn't know this for quite a while (as this is not the case in Oregon, and there are rarely signs stating no turn on red in these situations here). This makes the fact that it's legal to turn left on red from a two way to a one way street almost useless, since all the situations I can think of where it would otherwise be useful, it's a red left arrow meaning you can't do it. It makes me wonder what would happen if an officer pulled me over for turning on a red arrow. I still have Oregon plates and an Oregon licence, and turning on a red arrow is legal there. I'd imagine I'd just get an informative warning, "That's not legal in Idaho, don't do it again".
More relevant, I've seen the use of red balls at T intersections (and other intersections with dedicated right turn lanes) where they purposefully didn't use red arrows, in order to allow right turns on red. At the example I can think of, it's a green arrow when it's green, but when it's red it's a ball.
Red: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.586555,-116.55169,3a,75y,149.95h,89.04t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sh6sxRnrLG4e7GzBA0tmVkA!2e0!5s20110901T000000
Green: https://www.google.com/maps/@43.586749,-116.551953,3a,28.7y,143.74h,86.89t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sUlTghJadrH88_4YxquaPpA!2e0!5s20110901T000000
Quote from: getemngo on May 06, 2015, 07:27:14 PM
I'm not sure what the law is in Michigan, but I thought there were some states where a red right arrow is the equivalent of "NO TURN ON RED" but a right turn on a red ball is allowed?
Massachusetts law allows for right turns on a red
indication (emphasis added) after stop, regardless of whether the indication is a ball or arrow, unless a "No Turn on Red" sign is present. This law directly contradicts both the UVC and the MUTCD, which allow for RTOR on a red ball unless there is a sign present, but allow RTOR on a red right arrow only when there is a sign present. However, IMO the Massachusetts law makes more sense than the UVC, because it provides drivers with a consistent situation - i.e, RTOR unless there's a sign prohibiting it - regardless of whether the red indication is a ball or an arrow.