I noticed this in Mill Valley today–the first I've ever seen such a thing. A portion of Miller Ave., the major thoroughfare in and out of town to the south, has had its parking spaces restriped so that they face away from oncoming traffic, not toward. The city has posted signs every 100 feet or so listing (and even diagramming) the procedure for backing into the spaces.
The only possible explanation I can imagine is that traffic engineers expect motorists to be more observant of bicycles and other cars if they are forced overshoot a parking space and back in–whereas in the normal nose-in, back-out arrangement, they might be more likely to hit a bike or car as they back out.
Has anyone else seen this arrangement elsewhere?
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8706/17280452849_5020a18f45_b_d.jpg)
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8717/17278930318_85e83e2d64_b_d.jpg)
Yeah, this is becoming pretty common in the last decade or so. I actually don't mind it- it's far easier to back into a space than to back out of a space into traffic, but I know that different folks have different opinions on that.
It's also safer to get out of the car in narrow parking spaces, since if you back in to the space, you don't have to go around the door to get to the sidewalk, but that's minor.
Here are a few more examples:
Bow Street in Somerville, MA
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi478.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr144%2Ftradephoric%2FTransportation%2520Pictures%2FRandom%2FReverse-Angle_zpseioxsevk.png&hash=2ff560487dae3b4fa0c9aa799a84f69a2aefd09e)
Hamilton Street in Vancouver, BC
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-2mXpwdZWKho%2FUWIhZIksmGI%2FAAAAAAAAEaY%2F-f2HdjmAUhI%2Fs640%2FP1030761.JPG&hash=e8f9e8adfbda0e264833a07d94a62f6b30705a2d)
DC has that in some places, and in others it's allowed (and required) only on Sunday mornings so as to fit in more cars near churches. It causes problems near Verizon Center if there's an early afternoon game–people are required to park backwards on a diagonal, but after 2:00 PM you must revert to standard parallel parking. People who parked before the game invariably get tickets–but then, it's their own fault for not parking somewhere else (like a pay garage) where the restriction doesn't apply.
The real problem is that lots of people just plain aren't very good at parking that way. Lots of people have trouble with parallel parking too, of course, but in my observation most people aren't much better at backing into diagonal spots.
Quote from: corco on May 09, 2015, 06:49:00 PMYeah, this is becoming pretty common in the last decade or so. I actually don't mind it- it's far easier to back into a space than to back out of a space into traffic, but I know that different folks have different opinions on that.
I think context matters.
In the case of angle parking in a street, the balance of advantage clearly favors the driver backing into a space rather than backing out of a space, since the crossfall of the road means sightlines are better both for the reversing driver
and other traffic wishing to go down the street without parking.
Where geometry does not heavily favor one alternative over another, however, local custom plays a role in what drivers expect to see. In general, backing into spaces of whatever orientation appears to be a coastal preference. I have seen it done quite often in California, but rarely in Kansas.
In the case of right-angle parking in a parking lot off the street, following drivers who are not aware of a backing-into-spaces custom will often not understand what is going on when a car in front of them prepares to reverse into a parking space, and will either cut between the reversing car and the space--which is a good way to cause a collision--or steal the space by nosing into it.
I often back into parking spaces at the gym to avoid having the nose of my car pointed at the late afternoon sun. Very few other drivers do this and in fact Wichita has a municipal ordinance against reversing into spaces in city-owned parking lots. In the last month I have had two cars cut through the dwindling gap between my rear bumper and the cars I am trying to park between, and just last Friday someone nosed into the space I was trying to reverse into. If I were in those other drivers' shoes, I would be waiting for the parking maneuver to finish instead of interfering with it, but few these days seem to have that kind of patience.
I have never backed into one of these errant drivers because I actually turn my head to watch where the back of my car is going, but I can easily visualize someone relying on mirrors not getting enough advance notice of a conflict to step on the brakes and avoid a collision.
This was implemented on a street in Lexington, Ky. I haven't seen it yet, but local media reports indicate that people don't like it.
SW 11th Ave in Portland has some.
Tacoma, Washington has a growing number of back-in angle parking areas. In fact, there's back-in angle parking right outside the entrance to my building. I've been parking in it for the last five years. Absolutely love it. A lot of people didn't like it at first, but over time, people have warmed up to it.
South Congress Avenue in Austin, Texas (https://www.google.com/maps/@30.247022,-97.750634,3a,75y,4.05h,77.83t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sEgzHpRHn5Az7kF-NIqM2iQ!2e0!6m1!1e1) has this. There's an unofficial "parking lane" to the right of the parking spaces to facilitate this.
Quote from: J N Winkler on May 09, 2015, 08:51:39 PMIn the last month I have had two cars cut through the dwindling gap between my rear bumper and the cars I am trying to park between, and just last Friday someone nosed into the space I was trying to reverse into. If I were in those other drivers' shoes, I would be waiting for the parking maneuver to finish instead of interfering with it, but few these days seem to have that kind of patience.
If it makes you feel any better about it, people were doing that to me 20+ years ago...though probably longer than that.
Seattle does this on some of their hills, there is one adjacent to the Pike Place Market. It makes sense to me, and it makes it safer for getting back on the road, but it is quite awkward to get parked.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 09, 2015, 07:01:29 PM
DC has that in some places, and in others it's allowed (and required) only on Sunday mornings so as to fit in more cars near churches. It causes problems near Verizon Center if there's an early afternoon game–people are required to park backwards on a diagonal, but after 2:00 PM you must revert to standard parallel parking. People who parked before the game invariably get tickets–but then, it's their own fault for not parking somewhere else (like a pay garage) where the restriction doesn't apply.
Or DC could do the sensible thing and pick one or the other for that street instead of doing both.
In Philly, 11th St south of Fitzwater St has a bunch.
Here's a block in the Bronx where this is done. If you zoom in on the sign, you'll note that the angle is actually specified as 60°.
https://goo.gl/maps/15Jkl
Quote from: hbelkins on May 09, 2015, 10:51:56 PM
This was implemented on a street in Lexington, Ky. I haven't seen it yet, but local media reports indicate that people don't like it.
Which, of course, is not a very good indication of whether people really like it or not. Obviously, only those people who don't like it will be considered newsworthy, and the people who don't give a hoot aren't making the 6:00 broadcast.
These have been on 18th St NW in Adams Morgan in DC for decades. I know this because a flummoxed well-to-do suburbanite in a fur coat hit my car while trying to back into one in 1992. Had she not lied to her insurance company, I'd be inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt about the fact that it was a ludicrous setup for a street that congested.
As I recall, there was a cottage industry in those days of homeless men guiding drivers into spaces for tips. The driver in question tipped one then used him as a witness.
The example listed above on Bow Street in Somerville is similarly a shitshow. Bow Street functions as the westbound segment of Somerville Ave., a major arterial that runs one way here through Union Square. Drivers awkwardly and slowly struggle to get into spaces while heavy traffic builds up behind them and defiantly pushes around them. It is a victory for those with a great interest in "pushing back" at cars, but the frustrated drivers responding by flooring it around parking cars are going to kill a pedestrian one day.
QuoteOr DC could do the sensible thing and pick one or the other for that street instead of doing both.
It's not that easy in some of the DC cases. If they kept angled parking full time, you'd lose a traffic lane all the time instead of just one day a week, which would make the commuters (mostly Maryland drivers, to be fair) scream. On the flip side, if they kept it parallel parking full time, the churchgoers would scream. It's a no-win situation for DDOT.
Many motorists simply suck at parking, period.
The simplest parking maneuver - pulling straight in to a parking spot, confounds people. If there weren't lines there, people would tend to park much further away than need be, to the point where the gap would *almost* be wide enough for another car, but not quite enough. Then they try to line themselves up with the car next to them, and will generally be a foot ahead or a foot behind that next car over. Get a dozen or so cars doing that, and suddenly the line arcs out of line.
Backing into a parking spot is hard for many drivers. I generally do it in my own driveway just because I like the ease of pulling straight out, but I'm definitely in the minority on that one. Even on busy streets, people prefer to pull in, then deal with backing out into traffic, rather than just backing into their driveway in the first place.
Angled parking is another thing people aren't that great at. If there weren't lines in a parking lot again, people will try to park even with the car next to them, and that'll present the arcing issue that I mentioned above, along with the aisleway curving with the traffic.
Now, try getting someone to back up into an angled spot, and you're testing everyone's patience. It's actually the best way to park, because you can usually easily see traffic coming up the road when you're ready to pull out. But even the best of drivers will suck at backup angled parking because they do it so infrequently.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 10, 2015, 11:34:47 PM
Many motorists simply suck at parking, period.
The simplest parking maneuver - pulling straight in to a parking spot, confounds people. If there weren't lines there, people would tend to park much further away than need be, to the point where the gap would *almost* be wide enough for another car, but not quite enough.
A thousand times this. I've noticed it in the gravel parking lot that I've kept my car in this past school year, and it frustrates me to no end because we've had times where there wasn't enough space in the parking lot for all the cars that normally park here because people make an absolutely asinine use of the space.
There is one particular area of the lot that is located in between two walls (the lot has a short brick wall on one side, and the side wall of the house on the other), which clearly has room for 2 cars. Yet all of last semester, this minivan parked consistently in the dead center of the area so that there was just barely not enough room for a car on either side of the car. Luckily, when I arrived back at school for spring semester at the end of January, no one had parked there, so I parked as close to one side of that area as possible. Another person parked next to me, and that thankfully modeled good behavior for others (although me and that other person from the original day have been, for the most part, the people to use those two spots).
Rant over.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 10, 2015, 11:34:47 PM
Many motorists simply suck at parking, period.
The simplest parking maneuver - pulling straight in to a parking spot, confounds people. If there weren't lines there, people would tend to park much further away than need be, to the point where the gap would *almost* be wide enough for another car, but not quite enough. Then they try to line themselves up with the car next to them, and will generally be a foot ahead or a foot behind that next car over. Get a dozen or so cars doing that, and suddenly the line arcs out of line.
I think it's more with motorists just
don't care about how they park. When you see someone at a local grocery store take
3 stalls just to park, you have to wonder if it's a care thing.
A stretch of University Blvd in Tucson, just west of the University of Arizona, has back-in parking.
I know of one in Virginia - on North Taylor Street south of Va. 237 (Fairfax Drive) in Arlington County.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on May 11, 2015, 01:36:45 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 10, 2015, 11:34:47 PM
Many motorists simply suck at parking, period.
The simplest parking maneuver - pulling straight in to a parking spot, confounds people. If there weren't lines there, people would tend to park much further away than need be, to the point where the gap would *almost* be wide enough for another car, but not quite enough. Then they try to line themselves up with the car next to them, and will generally be a foot ahead or a foot behind that next car over. Get a dozen or so cars doing that, and suddenly the line arcs out of line.
I think it's more with motorists just don't care about how they park. When you see someone at a local grocery store take 3 stalls just to park, you have to wonder if it's a care thing.
Yeah, I think it's simply lack of consideration, not inability to do better.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on May 11, 2015, 01:36:45 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 10, 2015, 11:34:47 PM
Many motorists simply suck at parking, period.
The simplest parking maneuver - pulling straight in to a parking spot, confounds people. If there weren't lines there, people would tend to park much further away than need be, to the point where the gap would *almost* be wide enough for another car, but not quite enough. Then they try to line themselves up with the car next to them, and will generally be a foot ahead or a foot behind that next car over. Get a dozen or so cars doing that, and suddenly the line arcs out of line.
I think it's more with motorists just don't care about how they park. When you see someone at a local grocery store take 3 stalls just to park, you have to wonder if it's a care thing.
They do care - but only about whether their car gets dinged by the next car's door. They don't care one bit if there's enough parking left for others.
I'm pretty sure that most people don't give a crap about how they park. When driving someone, their first instinct is to fly out of the car the nanosecond I pull into a spot... never mind that I usually take a minute or two to check that I'm in the space and not crooked and adjust as needed before exiting the car.
Quote from: froggie on May 10, 2015, 10:46:59 PM
QuoteOr DC could do the sensible thing and pick one or the other for that street instead of doing both.
It's not that easy in some of the DC cases. If they kept angled parking full time, you'd lose a traffic lane all the time instead of just one day a week, which would make the commuters (mostly Maryland drivers, to be fair) scream. On the flip side, if they kept it parallel parking full time, the churchgoers would scream. It's a no-win situation for DDOT.
Perhaps they could at least have back-in parking all day Sunday rather than requiring that everyone move their cars at precisely 2:00 PM?
Same in Wilmington, DE on one street
https://goo.gl/maps/Ib8ay
One thing I dislike about back-in parking is that many of the back-in crowd do not signal before coming to a stop and throwing it in reverse, yet they then expect everyone else to get out of their way. Front-in parking doesn't present the same nuisance because it doesn't take as long and because the people behind you aren't an issue since you're not backing up.
I saw this for the first time in Milwaukee on Saturday as I was leaving the Brewers game.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Miller+Park/@43.027625,-87.962588,3a,75y,88.47h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svwz06qBtvjw_-h05N9M1jw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88051a59aafe73f5:0xc1b447de9450d0b4!6m1!1e1 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Miller+Park/@43.027625,-87.962588,3a,75y,88.47h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svwz06qBtvjw_-h05N9M1jw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x88051a59aafe73f5:0xc1b447de9450d0b4!6m1!1e1)
I didn't know this was a thing. Now this thread relieves even more ignorance on the topic.
Here in Austin. I think someone has been smoking too much pot.