As pedestrian activity grows in Downtown El Paso, the city has implemented its first ever crosswalk that permits diagonal crossing at Santa Fe Street and Main Street. The signals have a 100% pedestrian cycle, allowing pedestrians to cross in any direction.
The city painted the full compliment of traffic markings as noted in the MUTCD:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2Ffig3b_201_zpscpyupp3j.gif&hash=c4710d78d7cf59e5f1926915d8b18f3dba478546) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/fig3b_201_zpscpyupp3j.gif.html)
...and supplemented with these signs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi907.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac274%2Fmartinbartlett%2FIMG_0138%25201_zps5btelxvy.jpg&hash=d3ef3acce6340894c06e2889442d9680d97023bf) (http://s907.photobucket.com/user/martinbartlett/media/IMG_0138%201_zps5btelxvy.jpg.html)
Boise has had one (and I believe only one!) for at least 18 years now. It's nice.
https://www.google.com/maps?q=boise+id&hl=en&ll=43.617139,-116.202027&spn=0.001552,0.002642&sll=46.593358,-112.015694&sspn=0.066648,0.169086&hnear=Boise,+Ada+County,+Idaho&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=43.617139,-116.202027&panoid=Zni2S4ZKuzmsxtLTQ8DW2Q&cbp=12,64.59,,0,14.98
So it's a pedestrian scramble (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_scramble)?
Seattle has a few intersections with pedestrian-only cycles, but they restrict any crossings during the vehicular cycles.
DC uses the term "Barnes Dance", though they (to date) only have one, near the Verizon Center.
Wow, judging from the posts here, these seem to be far rarer than I would have thought. Pittsburgh has had a number of them for as long as I can remember, though you have press a button to call for the pedestrian-only phase (it's not just part of the regular cycle). And we don't have the goofy pavement markings.
Biggest pet peeve is when someone presses the button when traffic isn't nearly heavy enough to require the all-walk phase so they end up going ahead and crossing anyway before the all-walk phase even comes on and then traffic has to sit there for an extra 30 seconds watching nobody cross the intersection.
Shibuya, Tokyo ... easily one of the most famous pedestrian scrambles.
CAUTION: Huge photo. Don't click w/o good internet.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg)
Turned IMG into URL because it was 14.5 MB, a killer for people browsing via mobile networks. - rmf67
Quote from: jakeroot on May 12, 2015, 01:57:09 PM
Shibuya, Tokyo ... easily one of the most famous pedestrian scrambles.
CAUTION: Huge photo. Don't click w/o good internet.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg)
Look at all of those jaywalkers out of the stripped pedestrian area.
Turned IMG into URL because it was 14.5 MB, a killer for people browsing via mobile networks. - rmf67
This is the only one I can think of: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.939776,-75.0144,3a,75y,85.25h,82.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7gwf2JXAwiYbiSv-BoA9NA!2e0!5m1!1e1
At my previous job, when our management from the UK visited, they were aghast that a pedestrian green was combined with a green light for any vehicular traffic at an intersection near our office building.
Lots of four-way walk phases here, but no explicit diagonals to my knowledge.
Quote from: bzakharin on May 12, 2015, 03:54:39 PM
At my previous job, when our management from the UK visited, they were aghast that a pedestrian green was combined with a green light for any vehicular traffic at an intersection near our office building.
I can't blame them. My job requires me to sit on a street corner in a downtown area (don't get any ideas). The amount of
close calls I've seen....I would need 6 or 7 hands to count them all. Of course, the number of people actually hit is quite low (I only know of once, and it was my coworker and I was off-duty), which skews the stats to make most intersections appear safe (which, technically, they are, but close calls are no good). IMO, people shouldn't have to turn and expect pedestrians. I know that's how it's worked for decades, I just don't like it very much.
Toronto has a few, notably the one at Yonge and Dundas (https://www.google.com/maps/@43.656292,-79.381059,3a,61.9y,68.33h,81.95t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1subnY6gzK1alP49dlpQa32A!2e0).
Quote from: wphiii on May 12, 2015, 12:57:09 PM
Biggest pet peeve is when someone presses the button when traffic isn't nearly heavy enough to require the all-walk phase so they end up going ahead and crossing anyway before the all-walk phase even comes on and then traffic has to sit there for an extra 30 seconds watching nobody cross the intersection.
I end up doing that occasionally, though when I press the button, I'm not sure if I'll have the opportunity to cross without the walk phase. And yeah, there's no signage or special markings indicating permitted diagonal crossing, you just notice that all directions have "Walk" signs.
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2015, 09:59:47 PM
DC uses the term "Barnes Dance", though they (to date) only have one, near the Verizon Center.
There used to be a Barnes Dance in Silver Spring, Montgomery County, Maryland at Colesville Road (U.S. 29) and Fenton Street (https://www.google.com/maps/place/City+Place+Mall,+Silver+Spring,+MD+20910,+USA/@38.9976453,-77.0270336,197m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x89b7c8b0a81e2a07:0x4b57d6f0752da787!6m1!1e1%3Cbr%20/%3Egoogle.com), but it has been gone for quite a few years now.
They're pretty pervasive in New Haven, CT, where I went to college. When I came home for breaks and was walking on Long Island, I always had to remind myself that diagonal crossings weren't possible there.
They used to have a 6-7 block slew of them in Norwalk, OH if you traveled down OH-61 (which is also the pre-bypass alignments of old US-20 and Old OH-18). Every intersection in that stretch had them and it used to be that if you hit a red on the first instersection, you probably would hit red at another 2 intersections before getting out of the zone.
I know I've seen a few out here in Colorado, but for the life of me I cannot remember where.
There used to be one on the Ball State University campus, at McKinley and Riverside. It was known to all as the Scramble Light. At what was pretty much the center of campus in the 70s, it was a popular meeting place. "Meet me at the Scramble Light." It is long gone, as the campus sprawled over the years. I recall that the signal had a loud bell, like a traditional school bell, that sounded throughout the walk phase.
Here's a pretty good overview of the intersection, back in the day (as a bonus, the University Singers entertain): http://libx.bsu.edu/cdm/ref/collection/photo/id/15489
Although the diagonal is marked in only one direction, crossing was allowed in all directions. In other eras, the markings varied.
Here are more pictures of the scramble light area: http://libx.bsu.edu/cdm/search/collection/BSUAlmni!photo/searchterm/scramble%20light/order/nosort (http://libx.bsu.edu/cdm/search/collection/BSUAlmni!photo/searchterm/scramble%20light/order/nosort)
The Scramble Light is still there. A few years ago they rebuilt the intersection and the streets around it but kept the Scramble Light as it was. Now there's a sound of a bird chirping (Ball State Cardinals after all) that signals it's okay to cross diagonally.
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.515341,-0.141767,3a,75y,241.81h,71.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjaBE1Khkox9ktYGu2y5mcw!2e0!5m1!1e1 Oxford Circus has diagonal crossings. The absence of pedestrians is because it must be very early morning.
Of course, there's no jaywalking rules in the UK, so that seems to exist to encourage tourists to cut across, rather than cross two sides.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 12, 2015, 04:50:48 PM
IMO, people shouldn't have to turn and expect pedestrians.
At some intersections in Midtown Manhattan (here's one example) (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.758479,-73.969291,3a,46.5y,123.96h,91.37t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s11dol06ZfCwzhQG1PhV_LA!2e0), NYCDOT has taken to adding delayed protected-only turns from streets onto avenues. The light turns green for traffic proceeding straight only, and the ped signals go to walk. Then the ped signal that conflicts with the turning movement flashes and goes to don't walk, and the red arrow turns green while straight traffic and the opposite crosswalk maintain a green until the end of the phase.
It's effective at reducing the number of motor vehicle/pedestrian conflicts since the bulk of crossing pedestrians will go right after traffic on the avenue gets a red light. But it doesn't eliminate all of them because in New York "don't walk" means "quickly check for crossing traffic, then run across through the first opening you see".
Quote from: jakeroot on May 12, 2015, 01:57:09 PM
Shibuya, Tokyo ... easily one of the most famous pedestrian scrambles.
CAUTION: Huge photo. Don't click w/o good internet.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg)
Jake, while you gave people a suggestion to not click on the image, the problem is that since you put the URL for the full size image in the IMG tags, it loaded the full size 14.5 MB image anyways, even if you didn't click on it. So, I had to turn the IMG into URL because it is a killer for people browsing via mobile networks. And we have a lot of people visiting the forums that way now.
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 14, 2015, 07:48:41 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 12, 2015, 01:57:09 PM
Shibuya, Tokyo ... easily one of the most famous pedestrian scrambles.
CAUTION: Huge photo. Don't click w/o good internet.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg)
Jake, while you gave people a suggestion to not click on the image, the problem is that since you put the URL for the full size image in the IMG tags, it loaded the full size 14.5 MB image anyways, even if you didn't click on it. So, I had to turn the IMG into URL because it is a killer for people browsing via mobile networks. And we have a lot of people visiting the forums that way now.
I meant to download the image myself, shrink it, and re-upload it since I noticed the page was starting to take a long time to load. Sorry m8.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 14, 2015, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 14, 2015, 07:48:41 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 12, 2015, 01:57:09 PM
Shibuya, Tokyo ... easily one of the most famous pedestrian scrambles.
CAUTION: Huge photo. Don't click w/o good internet.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg)
Jake, while you gave people a suggestion to not click on the image, the problem is that since you put the URL for the full size image in the IMG tags, it loaded the full size 14.5 MB image anyways, even if you didn't click on it. So, I had to turn the IMG into URL because it is a killer for people browsing via mobile networks. And we have a lot of people visiting the forums that way now.
I meant to download the image myself, shrink it, and re-upload it since I noticed the page was starting to take a long time to load. Sorry m8.
No problem man, it's all good. Anyways, wikipedia usually has smaller versions of the images, didn't they have one for this one?
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 14, 2015, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 14, 2015, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 14, 2015, 07:48:41 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 12, 2015, 01:57:09 PM
Shibuya, Tokyo ... easily one of the most famous pedestrian scrambles.
CAUTION: Huge photo. Don't click w/o good internet.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg)
Jake, while you gave people a suggestion to not click on the image, the problem is that since you put the URL for the full size image in the IMG tags, it loaded the full size 14.5 MB image anyways, even if you didn't click on it. So, I had to turn the IMG into URL because it is a killer for people browsing via mobile networks. And we have a lot of people visiting the forums that way now.
I meant to download the image myself, shrink it, and re-upload it since I noticed the page was starting to take a long time to load. Sorry m8.
No problem man, it's all good. Anyways, wikipedia usually has smaller versions of the images, didn't they have one for this one?
It's usually located right under the image, for example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg/1024px-1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FMj6XArp.jpg&hash=620940b52460eed99538691b0d627c6aac4d2dd0)
Quote from: Bruce on May 14, 2015, 07:16:21 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 14, 2015, 06:34:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 14, 2015, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on May 14, 2015, 07:48:41 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 12, 2015, 01:57:09 PM
Shibuya, Tokyo ... easily one of the most famous pedestrian scrambles.
CAUTION: Huge photo. Don't click w/o good internet.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg)
Jake, while you gave people a suggestion to not click on the image, the problem is that since you put the URL for the full size image in the IMG tags, it loaded the full size 14.5 MB image anyways, even if you didn't click on it. So, I had to turn the IMG into URL because it is a killer for people browsing via mobile networks. And we have a lot of people visiting the forums that way now.
I meant to download the image myself, shrink it, and re-upload it since I noticed the page was starting to take a long time to load. Sorry m8.
No problem man, it's all good. Anyways, wikipedia usually has smaller versions of the images, didn't they have one for this one?
It's usually located right under the image, for example: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg/1024px-1_shibuya_crossing_2012.jpg
Beyond me how I've never noticed that. Thanks guys!
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 12, 2015, 06:36:26 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2015, 09:59:47 PM
DC uses the term "Barnes Dance", though they (to date) only have one, near the Verizon Center.
There used to be a Barnes Dance in Silver Spring, Montgomery County, Maryland at Colesville Road (U.S. 29) and Fenton Street (https://www.google.com/maps/place/City+Place+Mall,+Silver+Spring,+MD+20910,+USA/@38.9976453,-77.0270336,197m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x89b7c8b0a81e2a07:0x4b57d6f0752da787!6m1!1e1%3Cbr%20/%3Egoogle.com), but it has been gone for quite a few years now.
There is one in the Kemp Mill neighborhood at the corner of Arcola and Lamberton. The intersection is suburban, but there is a synagogue on the corner where a lot of congregants are walking on Saturdays, especially around the time when the services end at approximately 11:30 a.m.
3 of the 4 corners have a permanent sign for "No turn on red". The exit from the shopping center has "No turn on red" illuminated when the pedestrian light comes on. There aren't any signs specifically permitting diagonal crossing, but many peds do it, since they know they have an exclusive phase where all traffic (including right turns) must stop.
The pedestrian phase is programmend as part of the regular traffic light cycle on Jewish Sabbath (Fri night - Sat night) and some Jewish holidays. The pedestrian phase can also be activated by pushing a button during other times.
Quote from: bzakharin on May 12, 2015, 03:54:39 PM
This is the only one I can think of: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.939776,-75.0144,3a,75y,85.25h,82.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7gwf2JXAwiYbiSv-BoA9NA!2e0!5m1!1e1
At my previous job, when our management from the UK visited, they were aghast that a pedestrian green was combined with a green light for any vehicular traffic at an intersection near our office building.
I don't believe this is an example of a Barnes Dance, particularly as side street traffic doesn't get a light. It's more of a signalized crosswalk, that happens to be in an intersection. For this intersection, I would add traffic lights for the side street, with right turns permitted on red, but a green right turn arrow to allow cars to turn without stopping while pedestrians are crossing.
Your post got me thinking about this intersection (Linden / Wilshire) in Beverly Hills, CA
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.067092,-118.407795,3a,75y,234.29h,87.07t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sio85pArRM4d10DVImCGfpQ!2e0!6m1!1e1
There are three phases here:
- Wilshire Blvd (major street)
- Left turns from Linden to Wilshire and peds crossing Wilshire. Notice that because of the skewed intersection, left turners do not come into contact with the diagonal crosswalk of pedestrians. Right turn on red is permitted though.
- A very short right turn phase from Linden to Wilshire. This is for anyone who couldn't turn during the previous phase because there were too many pedestrians crossing.
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2015, 09:59:47 PM
DC uses the term "Barnes Dance", though they (to date) only have one, near the Verizon Center.
Supposedly the term "Barnes Dance" comes from Denver and the guy who is credited with originating it. I vaguely remember encountering these intersections in Denver on a school trip in 1988 and again when I stopped there on the way home from a football trip to Laramie in 2007. I hear they've since abolished the diagonal crossing. I do not remember which intersections had this feature, though. Simply been too long and my mind was focused on other things anyway.
I go through the DC intersection you mentioned quite frequently on foot going to and from the arena. It's a bit unique among all-way crossings in that vehicles are prohibited from making any turns whatsoever, though of course many drivers ignore that restriction. The reason is that unlike a traditional Barnes Dance, in which pedestrians never get a "Walk" signal except during the "all-way cross" phase, the Chinatown intersection allows crossing in the same direction as the vehicular green light (e.g., if 7th Street has the green, pedestrians get a "Walk" signal to cross H Street). DC authorities believed they'd have a severe jaywalking problem if the only "Walk" signal were the "all-way cross" phase because people would refuse to wait that long (probably a valid assumption). So they banned all turns to try to keep the traffic moving. In fairness to drivers who aren't from the area, though, that intersection is a very busy place even when there isn't an event at Verizon Center, there's a lot of visual clutter, and the "No Turns" signs can be easy to miss.
I wonder, are there any other of this type of intersection where turning is banned in this manner? In theory, the idea of allowing the all-way crossing is that if people play by the rules, motor vehicles and pedestrians never come into conflict in these intersections, so allowing turns wouldn't be an issue because someone turning would not encounter a pedestrian conflict (you might ban left turns based on traffic volume, though).
West Virginia makes extensive use of pedestrian-only phases, and frankly, they seem like a bad idea. In downtown areas, people just end up ignoring the pedestrian signals and walk on a green light. In more suburban areas, they end up stealing a lot of time that could be used to move cars instead. I'd really rather see a brief pedestrian-lead off like I've seen in Pittsburgh and State College, PA than the exclusive phases.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 17, 2015, 08:57:48 AM
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2015, 09:59:47 PM
DC uses the term "Barnes Dance", though they (to date) only have one, near the Verizon Center.
I wonder, are there any other of this type of intersection where turning is banned in this manner? In theory, the idea of allowing the all-way crossing is that if people play by the rules, motor vehicles and pedestrians never come into conflict in these intersections, so allowing turns wouldn't be an issue because someone turning would not encounter a pedestrian conflict (you might ban left turns based on traffic volume, though).
To answer your question, someone upthread posted a photo of the corner of Yonge and Dundas in Toronto. I've never been to Toronto, but based on the photos on GSV, it looks like all turns are banned and diagonal crossing is allowed, so I assume that it has a similar traffic pattern to 7th and H in DC.
But most Barnes Dances that I'm familiar with only allow pedestrians to cross during the all-red phase, so turns are generally allowed during vehicular green, but usually there is a no turn on red restriction so that there is no vehicular interference during the pedestrian phase.
Despite the delays, traffic usually works a lot better with a Barnes Dance in areas with heavy pedestrian crossing. At a normal intersection, it's hard to make turns as pedestrians are crossing during the whole green phase. But with a Barnes Dance, straight traffic and right turners can use the green phase without worrying about peds, and peds can cross without worry of getting hit with a car - but that assumes that everyone follows their traffic signals properly.
Quote from: mrsman on May 17, 2015, 06:24:49 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 17, 2015, 08:57:48 AM
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2015, 09:59:47 PM
DC uses the term "Barnes Dance", though they (to date) only have one, near the Verizon Center.
I wonder, are there any other of this type of intersection where turning is banned in this manner? In theory, the idea of allowing the all-way crossing is that if people play by the rules, motor vehicles and pedestrians never come into conflict in these intersections, so allowing turns wouldn't be an issue because someone turning would not encounter a pedestrian conflict (you might ban left turns based on traffic volume, though).
To answer your question, someone upthread posted a photo of the corner of Yonge and Dundas in Toronto. I've never been to Toronto, but based on the photos on GSV, it looks like all turns are banned and diagonal crossing is allowed, so I assume that it has a similar traffic pattern to 7th and H in DC.
But most Barnes Dances that I'm familiar with only allow pedestrians to cross during the all-red phase, so turns are generally allowed during vehicular green, but usually there is a no turn on red restriction so that there is no vehicular interference during the pedestrian phase.
Despite the delays, traffic usually works a lot better with a Barnes Dance in areas with heavy pedestrian crossing. At a normal intersection, it's hard to make turns as pedestrians are crossing during the whole green phase. But with a Barnes Dance, straight traffic and right turners can use the green phase without worrying about peds, and peds can cross without worry of getting hit with a car - but that assumes that everyone follows their traffic signals properly.
Yeah, the Yonge-Dundas example bans every turn movement due to high pedestrian volumes at this location. Major transfer point between the subway and streetcars and three of the corners have shopping complexes, easily being one of downtown's busiest intersections because of that. Lefts are typically banned across streetcar tracks when a left-turning vehicle would have to turn from a shared lane, at least during certain times of day.
Quote from: mrsman on May 17, 2015, 07:39:08 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on May 12, 2015, 03:54:39 PM
This is the only one I can think of: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.939776,-75.0144,3a,75y,85.25h,82.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7gwf2JXAwiYbiSv-BoA9NA!2e0!5m1!1e1
At my previous job, when our management from the UK visited, they were aghast that a pedestrian green was combined with a green light for any vehicular traffic at an intersection near our office building.
I don't believe this is an example of a Barnes Dance, particularly as side street traffic doesn't get a light. It's more of a signalized crosswalk, that happens to be in an intersection. For this intersection, I would add traffic lights for the side street, with right turns permitted on red, but a green right turn arrow to allow cars to turn without stopping while pedestrians are crossing.
I like this one the way it is.
Rt. 38 is a busy road with plenty of traffic lights. Since this is a ped only light, it won't turn unless activated. In other words - it rarely turns red.
If you were to put traffic lights facing the side street, then you would get the motorists that refuse to turn right on red or can't turn on red (buses, tanker vehicles, etc). As it is now, those vehicles just have to wait for a gap in traffic, usually resulting from the previous traffic light. With a traffic light facing the side street, you'll wind up stopping traffic on 38 for an extended period of time for just a few cars which can only turn right.
There are two such crossings on the campus of James Madison University, but in each case, only one diagonal crossing is marked through the intersection. Given that three out of four approaches in both intersections cannot turn right on red, the two approaches that lack such signage also lack right turn lanes (making such a movement unlikely), and that all directions turn red during a walk phase, students pretty much cross however they want.
Bluestone Dr and Carrier Dr (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.434591,-78.870232,3a,50y,23.11h,84.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sVp3KpzxSjvfYOYMkkZ0_hA!2e0!6m1!1e1)
Bluestone Dr and Duke Dr (https://www.google.com/maps/@38.436657,-78.869959,3a,75y,16.72h,79.04t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s5CfX4eb14f1E6qyAvDfD4Q!2e0!6m1!1e1)
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 17, 2015, 07:34:22 PM
Quote from: mrsman on May 17, 2015, 07:39:08 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on May 12, 2015, 03:54:39 PM
This is the only one I can think of: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.939776,-75.0144,3a,75y,85.25h,82.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7gwf2JXAwiYbiSv-BoA9NA!2e0!5m1!1e1
At my previous job, when our management from the UK visited, they were aghast that a pedestrian green was combined with a green light for any vehicular traffic at an intersection near our office building.
I don't believe this is an example of a Barnes Dance, particularly as side street traffic doesn't get a light. It's more of a signalized crosswalk, that happens to be in an intersection. For this intersection, I would add traffic lights for the side street, with right turns permitted on red, but a green right turn arrow to allow cars to turn without stopping while pedestrians are crossing.
I like this one the way it is.
Rt. 38 is a busy road with plenty of traffic lights. Since this is a ped only light, it won't turn unless activated. In other words - it rarely turns red.
If you were to put traffic lights facing the side street, then you would get the motorists that refuse to turn right on red or can't turn on red (buses, tanker vehicles, etc). As it is now, those vehicles just have to wait for a gap in traffic, usually resulting from the previous traffic light. With a traffic light facing the side street, you'll wind up stopping traffic on 38 for an extended period of time for just a few cars which can only turn right.
I'll trust your judgment on it, but I would guess that the light probably turns red with some regularity, otherwise it would not meet its warrants for existence in the first place. Anyways, it would be nice on such occasions to have a green right turn at times when pedestrians recieve walk. And not speaking for this light in particular, but perhaps one with a similar geometric setup in a busier area (side street must turn right, pedestrian [or bike] crossing traffic), it might make sense to have a light on the side street with a flashing red light. Right turn permitted for all vehicles after stop, but when peds have walk, they recieve a green arrow.
Quote from: mrsman on June 14, 2015, 06:32:34 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 17, 2015, 07:34:22 PM
Quote from: mrsman on May 17, 2015, 07:39:08 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on May 12, 2015, 03:54:39 PM
This is the only one I can think of: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.939776,-75.0144,3a,75y,85.25h,82.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7gwf2JXAwiYbiSv-BoA9NA!2e0!5m1!1e1
At my previous job, when our management from the UK visited, they were aghast that a pedestrian green was combined with a green light for any vehicular traffic at an intersection near our office building.
I don't believe this is an example of a Barnes Dance, particularly as side street traffic doesn't get a light. It's more of a signalized crosswalk, that happens to be in an intersection. For this intersection, I would add traffic lights for the side street, with right turns permitted on red, but a green right turn arrow to allow cars to turn without stopping while pedestrians are crossing.
I like this one the way it is.
Rt. 38 is a busy road with plenty of traffic lights. Since this is a ped only light, it won't turn unless activated. In other words - it rarely turns red.
If you were to put traffic lights facing the side street, then you would get the motorists that refuse to turn right on red or can't turn on red (buses, tanker vehicles, etc). As it is now, those vehicles just have to wait for a gap in traffic, usually resulting from the previous traffic light. With a traffic light facing the side street, you'll wind up stopping traffic on 38 for an extended period of time for just a few cars which can only turn right.
I'll trust your judgment on it, but I would guess that the light probably turns red with some regularity, otherwise it would not meet its warrants for existence in the first place. Anyways, it would be nice on such occasions to have a green right turn at times when pedestrians recieve walk. And not speaking for this light in particular, but perhaps one with a similar geometric setup in a busier area (side street must turn right, pedestrian [or bike] crossing traffic), it might make sense to have a light on the side street with a flashing red light. Right turn permitted for all vehicles after stop, but when peds have walk, they recieve a green arrow.
Is that actually ever done? The only places I've seen flashing red lights are where either all directions have them or some directions have a flashing yellow. I *have* seen a non-flashing constant red signal with a "right turn has no green" sign, so something like that might work. Maybe "don't wait for green" could be warranted
Seaside, OR has one. This is the signage for the pedestrians:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2Ff1GEs4xl.png&hash=b452c4a60e19d8f604391d2c170d38098191292e)
(http://i.imgur.com/f1GEs4x.png)
https://www.google.com/maps/@45.99337,-123.927722,3a,75y,172.55h,86.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s7i9inAgvqN5A4r50HfPpdw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
It can take an abnormally long time to drive through this light, even when there's very little traffic, due to the pedestrian friendly nature of this intersection. There are I believe 3 car phases (Broadway EB, Broadway WB, and Columbia), and you can potentially have a pedestrian phase in between each one of them. From our house a few blocks north of downtown to get to businesses along Ave A, sometimes it's faster to walk because of this pesky light (I prefer walking anyways when it's not raining).
Quote from: corco on May 11, 2015, 07:34:21 PM
Boise has had one (and I believe only one!) for at least 18 years now. It's nice.
https://www.google.com/maps?q=boise+id&hl=en&ll=43.617139,-116.202027&spn=0.001552,0.002642&sll=46.593358,-112.015694&sspn=0.066648,0.169086&hnear=Boise,+Ada+County,+Idaho&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=43.617139,-116.202027&panoid=Zni2S4ZKuzmsxtLTQ8DW2Q&cbp=12,64.59,,0,14.98
I was there two days ago, and have been there at least 3 or 4 times, and never noticed it :P Most of those times I was a pedestrian too and not a driver, which makes that even weirder. Ill keep a closer eye out next time.