Might as well start a topic for what has become an emerging issue in the Seattle area. More state highways are being converted into toll roads and HOT lanes (with or without major new infrastructure that justifies it) and people are mad about it.
All of the toll facilities in Washington are operated by WSDOT and use the Good-to-Go pass system. Only the Tacoma Narrows Bridge has a toll plaza where cash can be used, otherwise drivers without passes have to pay a higher fee in the mail (which comes with late fees that have been very controversial).
One can also include the state-run ferry system in this list, as they are part of the state highway system (carrying route designations since 1994) and have fares of their own.
Current Toll Roads in Washington (As of May 2015)
Route/Name | Type | Length | Termini | Toll rates for average car | Opened | Notes |
SR 16 Tacoma Narrows Bridge (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/TNBTolling/default.htm) | Toll bridge | 0.5 mi | Gig Harbor
Tacoma | $4.50 (Good-to-Go!)
$5.50 (Cash)
$6.50 (Mail) | July 2007 | Eastbound span only |
SR 167 HOT Lanes (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/SR167HotLanes/) | HOT Lane | 10 mi | SW 15th Street in Auburn
I-405 in Renton | $0.50 to $9.00 | May 2008 (pilot)
2013 | Double white lines partially removed in 2014 (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/SR167HotLanes/access.htm);
Extension south to Pierce County to open in 2017 (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr167/8to277/) |
SR 520 Floating Bridge (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/520/default.htm) | Toll bridge | 1.4 mi | SR 513 in Seattle
92nd Avenue NE in Clyde Hill | $1.20 to $3.80 (Good-to-Go)
$2.80 to $5.40 (Mail) | December 2011 | Bridge was tolled from 1963 to 1979 with toll booths (converted into the former Evergreen Point bus station until 2014);
Tolls to be used to fund $1.2 billion towards the replacement floating bridge (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/SR520Bridge/) |
Future Toll Roads in Washington (Under construction or approved)
- I-405 Express Toll Lane Phase 1 (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/i405/ne6thtoi5/): I-405 between Bellevue and Lynnwood (scheduled to open in 2015)
- Alaskan Way Viaduct replacement tunnel (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Projects/Viaduct/SR99Tolling) (scheduled to open in 2017)
Proposed Toll Roads in Washington(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wsdot.wa.gov%2FNR%2Frdonlyres%2FDDF34B13-3830-4261-8D51-BBC56DB05DC6%2F0%2FTollProgram_Map_wCallouts_0.gif&hash=9ffe974102bc777f548c2c2756424265df6cc61d)
I-405 Express Toll LanesHere's a video from WSDOT explaning the I-405 Express Toll Lane project, which includes a unique "Flex Pass" that allows drivers to switch between being charged as a single-occupant vehicle and using the lanes for free with a qualifying (3+ occupant) carpool.
Looking forward to the day when I can drive to Seattle without traffic. That's priceless as far as I'm concerned.
Also, speaking of toll roads, here's what SR 520 looks like during rush hour even with tolls:
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7796/17033643714_ca5ec0bb39_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rXcSQj)
SR 520 Floating Bridge during rush hour (https://flic.kr/p/rXcSQj) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
Quote from: Bruce on May 14, 2015, 10:53:29 PM
Also, speaking of toll roads, here's what SR 520 looks like during rush hour even with tolls:
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7796/17033643714_ca5ec0bb39_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/rXcSQj)
SR 520 Floating Bridge during rush hour (https://flic.kr/p/rXcSQj) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
Can you tell us whether this was morning or afternoon rush hour and which direction was busier, E or W?
Also, bridges are a little different from HOT lanes because there are very few work arounds. They will be busy despite tolls. The tolls are for revenue generating purposes only, not to provide a smooth ride for tollpayers.
THe HOT lanes though do provide an alternative between free and congested and toll and less congested.
Quote from: mrsman on May 15, 2015, 08:43:20 AM
Can you tell us whether this was morning or afternoon rush hour and which direction was busier, E or W?
Also, bridges are a little different from HOT lanes because there are very few work arounds. They will be busy despite tolls. The tolls are for revenue generating purposes only, not to provide a smooth ride for tollpayers.
THe HOT lanes though do provide an alternative between free and congested and toll and less congested.
This was taken during the afternoon rush hour, with traffic going westbound (Bellevue/Redmond to Seattle) at a near standstill.
Quote from: Bruce on May 15, 2015, 01:03:42 PM
Quote from: mrsman on May 15, 2015, 08:43:20 AM
Can you tell us whether this was morning or afternoon rush hour and which direction was busier, E or W?
Also, bridges are a little different from HOT lanes because there are very few work arounds. They will be busy despite tolls. The tolls are for revenue generating purposes only, not to provide a smooth ride for tollpayers.
THe HOT lanes though do provide an alternative between free and congested and toll and less congested.
This was taken during the afternoon rush hour, with traffic going westbound (Bellevue/Redmond to Seattle) at a near standstill.
Interesting. I've heard that WA-520 was one of several facilities out there where the "reverse commute" is heavier than the regular commute.
I-10 Santa Monica Freeway in LA is busier in the morning heading to Santa Monica than it is heading to LA.
In this area, I-66 connects Downtown Washington with the Dulles Toll Road. Along the Dulles Toll Road are Tysons Corner, Reston, and Dulles Airport - very siginificant employment centers. The reverse commute is worse traffic, but the "forward commute" the highway is only open for Dulles Airport traffic and HOV-2.
One reason why the reverse commute may be busier is that the reverse commute is harder to serve by transit, so more people are driving.
Quote from: mrsman on May 15, 2015, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Bruce on May 15, 2015, 01:03:42 PM
Quote from: mrsman on May 15, 2015, 08:43:20 AM
Can you tell us whether this was morning or afternoon rush hour and which direction was busier, E or W?
Also, bridges are a little different from HOT lanes because there are very few work arounds. They will be busy despite tolls. The tolls are for revenue generating purposes only, not to provide a smooth ride for tollpayers.
THe HOT lanes though do provide an alternative between free and congested and toll and less congested.
This was taken during the afternoon rush hour, with traffic going westbound (Bellevue/Redmond to Seattle) at a near standstill.
Interesting. I've heard that WA-520 was one of several facilities out there where the "reverse commute" is heavier than the regular commute.
I-10 Santa Monica Freeway in LA is busier in the morning heading to Santa Monica than it is heading to LA.
In this area, I-66 connects Downtown Washington with the Dulles Toll Road. Along the Dulles Toll Road are Tysons Corner, Reston, and Dulles Airport - very siginificant employment centers. The reverse commute is worse traffic, but the "forward commute" the highway is only open for Dulles Airport traffic and HOV-2.
One reason why the reverse commute may be busier is that the reverse commute is harder to serve by transit, so more people are driving.
Seattle is quite unusual in having multiple corridors where reverse direction commutes tend to have more congestion, due in part to the nature of our suburban companies (Microsoft, Nintendo USA, Costco, Boeing, etc.) and because we have reversible express lanes that help relieve peak direction commutes. For example, heading into Seattle during PM rush hour:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8878/17630334246_54fd2c1ff8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sRW597)
I-5 southbound from 45th Street (https://flic.kr/p/sRW597) by SounderBruce (https://www.flickr.com/photos/sounderbruce/), on Flickr
There's plenty of good bus connections (running at 10-minute or less frequencies during peak hours, 15-20 minutes during off peak weekdays) on most of these corridors, so the reverse commute isn't as painful for most suburban workers who live in the city. Some companies (like Microsoft) run special shuttle services into the city to pick up their workers to help relieve crowding on the most popular bus routes.
General rule of thumb. Inbound traffic to Seattle is always bad between 7 AM - 7 PM (with a lunch break that's not too terrible between 11 AM and 2 PM).
Obviously there's just a vortex that cars are teleported out of the city yet have to drive into the city.
I'm sure people will be happy when I-90 will be tolled (and the express lanes turn into SoundTransit Light Rail).
I-405 Express Toll Lanes (HOT lanes) are opening September 27:
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/News/2015/08/I405_Date_Announcement.htm
I heard something from a Tacoma buddy last month about extending the WA 167 freeway to I-5...didn't know it was going to be tolled. Doesn't that also run across an Indian reservation between Tacoma and Puyallup?
What's WSDOT's rationale for tolling I-90?
Someone pulled down the proposed routing for WA 167 between WA 509 and the current freeway from OSM, but it's supposed to cross I-5 as it turns northward from its east-west segment in Fife, which puts it right in the reservation (and I didn't know that was a reservation until now).
Quote from: Bickendan on August 24, 2015, 06:45:02 PM
Someone pulled down the proposed routing for WA 167 between WA 509 and the current freeway from OSM...
Probably better off that way. It was a pretty rough sketch and I'm uncertain it was really all that accurate.
Quote from: froggie on August 21, 2015, 08:53:51 AM
I heard something from a Tacoma buddy last month about extending the WA 167 freeway to I-5...didn't know it was going to be tolled.
It's still up in the air. No official wording, but WSDOT's plans for where they want "full" vs "express" tolls indicates full tolling (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/planningmap.htm) along this route.
Quote from: froggie on August 21, 2015, 08:53:51 AM
What's WSDOT's rationale for tolling I-90?
No longer any plans to do so. It was originally to help fund the "Rest of the West" 520 project (http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/projects/sr520bridge/i5tolakewa/) (I-5 to Lake Washington) but the state legislature has since funded the construction, so revenue is no longer an issue.
Quote from: Bickendan on August 24, 2015, 06:45:02 PM
Someone pulled down the proposed routing for WA 167 between WA 509 and the current freeway from OSM, but it's supposed to cross I-5 as it turns northward from its east-west segment in Fife, which puts it right in the reservation (and I didn't know that was a reservation until now).
The Emerald Queen Casino on either side of the freeway there is a big green clue that it's Native American land.
Quote from: mrsman on May 15, 2015, 08:43:20 AMAlso, bridges are a little different from HOT lanes because there are very few work arounds. They will be busy despite tolls. The tolls are for revenue generating purposes only, not to provide a smooth ride for tollpayers.
Except when there are workarounds. Since 520 has been tolled, traffic is slightly down, while traffic on I-90 is very slightly up and traffic on 522 (around the north end of the lake) is
way up. That said, yes, the tolling is to generate revenue for the project, not to reduce traffic on the bridge.
Quote from: Bruce on May 15, 2015, 02:23:23 PM
Quote from: mrsman on May 15, 2015, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Bruce on May 15, 2015, 01:03:42 PM
Quote from: mrsman on May 15, 2015, 08:43:20 AM
Can you tell us whether this was morning or afternoon rush hour and which direction was busier, E or W?
Also, bridges are a little different from HOT lanes because there are very few work arounds. They will be busy despite tolls. The tolls are for revenue generating purposes only, not to provide a smooth ride for tollpayers.
THe HOT lanes though do provide an alternative between free and congested and toll and less congested.
This was taken during the afternoon rush hour, with traffic going westbound (Bellevue/Redmond to Seattle) at a near standstill.
Interesting. I've heard that WA-520 was one of several facilities out there where the "reverse commute" is heavier than the regular commute.
I-10 Santa Monica Freeway in LA is busier in the morning heading to Santa Monica than it is heading to LA.
In this area, I-66 connects Downtown Washington with the Dulles Toll Road. Along the Dulles Toll Road are Tysons Corner, Reston, and Dulles Airport - very siginificant employment centers. The reverse commute is worse traffic, but the "forward commute" the highway is only open for Dulles Airport traffic and HOV-2.
One reason why the reverse commute may be busier is that the reverse commute is harder to serve by transit, so more people are driving.
Seattle is quite unusual in having multiple corridors where reverse direction commutes tend to have more congestion, due in part to the nature of our suburban companies (Microsoft, Nintendo USA, Costco, Boeing, etc.) and because we have reversible express lanes that help relieve peak direction commutes.
There's plenty of good bus connections (running at 10-minute or less frequencies during peak hours, 15-20 minutes during off peak weekdays) on most of these corridors, so the reverse commute isn't as painful for most suburban workers who live in the city. Some companies (like Microsoft) run special shuttle services into the city to pick up their workers to help relieve crowding on the most popular bus routes.
I'd imagine that the reverse commuter is also heavier in Metro Detroit, with Ford and Chrysler being HQ'd in the suburbs (Dearborn and Auburn Hills, respectively), and GM having several sites outside its main HQ in the city as well.
As for the subject in question, I don't think I-90 needs tolls with the presence of those on WA 520. Although I-5 could use the express toll lanes from Tacoma to Everett, especially for the reverse commuters.
I have no problem with toll roads, that being said, tolling existing facilities, or without a plan to create new facilities seems antithetical to the point of tolling. The 405 and 167 tolls seem more like congestion charging like they have in London, and a bit extreme, given out tax money already paid for the roads, and the new toll money won't go into expanding the roadway. Now, if these tolling projects were to increase capacity, build a few select new freeways (we need at least two E-W, all the way to the waterfront, at least 1 N-S, and 1 bypass) that would be fine, but tolling with no goal in mind seems criminal to me.
That being said, I was Good-To-Go Electronic Tolling on the ferries, it would save so much time, effort, and energy.
Quote from: TEG24601 on August 27, 2015, 03:17:34 PM
...build a few select new freeways (we need at least two E-W, all the way to the waterfront, at least 1 N-S, and 1 bypass) that would be fine
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sodahead.com%2Fpolls%2F003461875%2F3257346787_LOL_BRAH_NOT_GONNA_HAPPEN_answer_4_xlarge.jpeg&hash=9b5346d574a462a69d5e0cbd8113a335fa7625fd)
Quote from: TEG24601 on August 27, 2015, 03:17:34 PM
The 405 and 167 tolls seem more like congestion charging like they have in London, and a bit extreme, given our tax money already paid for the roads
"Your" taxes have paid for numerous HOV facilities which you can't use. And now WSDOT comes around and says you can use them for a tiny fee...why complain? You should be celebrating.
Quote from: TEG24601 on August 27, 2015, 03:17:34 PM
the new toll money won't go into expanding the roadway...tolling with no goal in mind seems criminal to me.
No, because it goes to maintaining the facility itself. You do understand running costs, right? The longer they exist, the more popular they become, the more money WSDOT makes; however, WSDOT is not installing them to make money. The goal is to ensure quick travel times, and if you've ever driven the 167 HOT lanes, you'd know how well it all works.
The 167 HOT lanes were put in too long ago for me to remember, but in the case of 405 at least, they're adding another lane in each direction. So not by a whole lot, but there is some increased capacity.
http://www.rentonreporter.com/news/329270631.html
Here is an update for the 405 Freeway adding Toll Lanes in the Seattle area
http://www.king5.com/story/news/traffic/2015/09/25/i-405-lane-closures-express-tolls/72794576/
Wow this is played as Carmageddon on the 405 Freeway but this time its not the San Diego Freeway in Los Angeles.
Quote from: bing101 on September 25, 2015, 11:21:58 PMthe 405 Freeway
Get out of here you filthy Californian transplant. /s
Anyway, the major closure over the weekend is for re-striping the HOT lanes. Signs are already up (I spotted a new "Toll lanes ahead" sign above the I-405/I-5/SR 525 interchange in Lynnwood while riding home today) and people do have their Flex Passes.
Probably should revive this thread, given the massive controversies that the I-405 Express Toll Lanes have spawned.
Might even be part of the reason that Lynn Peterson is out of her job as Secretary of Transportation, among other things.
Quote from: Bruce on February 12, 2016, 12:37:54 AM
Probably should revive this thread, given the massive controversies that the I-405 Express Toll Lanes have spawned.
Might even be part of the reason that Lynn Peterson is out of her job as Secretary of Transportation, among other things.
Did a quick Google search on the Washington I-405 Express Lanes and wow, it doesn't look like they're working the way those at WSDOT thought they would. I find it *very* surprising that these lanes operate 24/7.
Down here in northern California, where new express lanes are about to open on I-580 between Dublin and Livermore, tolls are only collected either during commute hours (5-10am and 3-7pm Mon-Fri on the I-880/CA-237 Express Lanes) or during the day (5am-8pm Mon-Fri on the I-680 Express Lane and future I-580 Express Lanes). These lanes are open to all during the overnight hours and on weekends.
The I-680 and 880/237 express lanes have designated entry and exit points which have infuriated drivers, especially carpoolers, who have to choose between using the express lane and missing their exit or using the congested general purpose lanes. The new I-580 express lanes will, for the most part, be open access meaning you can enter and exit the lanes at will.
Quote from: myosh_tino on February 12, 2016, 02:39:02 AM
Did a quick Google search on the Washington I-405 Express Lanes and wow, it doesn't look like they're working the way those at WSDOT thought they would. I find it *very* surprising that these lanes operate 24/7.
There's actually a bill in the Senate right now that would end toll collection during off-peak hours. I used to be on WSDOT's side, as, well, they're the engineers and probably know best, but even I'd end tolls after rush hour is over. Express Lanes' purpose is moot when there's no congestion to provide relief from.
As a result of 24/7 tolling, and much higher use than expected, WSDOT has made almost 4x (http://goo.gl/MsI7Kg) what they expected to make in revenue so far ($4M versus $1M).
Does anyone think getting rid of the tolls will improve traffic flow on Interstate 405? I am skeptical, but then again, I've never been to the Seattle area.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 13, 2016, 02:24:49 PM
Does anyone think getting rid of the tolls will improve traffic flow on Interstate 405? I am skeptical, but then again, I've never been to the Seattle area.
It was bad before, so I'm not sure there would be an improvement. The only sure-fire way to improve traffic is to, surprisingly(?), reduce the number of cars on the road, by encouraging transit and HOV. Going back to one HOV lane is not encouraging that (why bother with HOV when they're moving just as slow as the GP lanes?), so we should keep the current system, but change a couple things:
- Open the lanes up to all during off-hours
- re-stripe the lanes with with one solid white line to permit unlimited access; or
- build more left exits to discourage movements to/from the express lanes; and/or
- introduce hard shoulder running for buses and HOV, who are only on the freeway for a short distance.
It depends on what's meant by "improve traffic flow". The HOT lanes have improved travel time between Lynnwood and Bellevue (the two ends), which is why WSDOT touts them as a success, and why their data seems to back up that claim. But it's made things worse for people getting on or off at SR 520 or SR 522, since to take advantage of the HOT lanes, they need to merge across the 3+ GP lanes, and have a limited space to do so because of the double white lines.
Quote- Open the lanes up to all during off-hours
This won't actually do much to solve the problems, since there isn't nearly as much traffic during "off-hours". So of course (sarcasm), this is the solution that seems to have the most traction.
I should clarify. This won't do much to solve the actual traffic problems. But what it will do is give people the illusion that they're doing something, so it might get the more sheep-like voters in their constituency off their back.
Quote- re-stripe the lanes with with one solid white line to permit unlimited access
This might work, it might not. Part of the reason for the double white line is the tolling; it means you can't duck out of the lane to avoid the gantry where the toll is charged. But it also helps with a genuine safety issue. If the HOT lanes are working as intended, and say the GP lanes are moving 30 mph and the HOT lanes are moving at 50 mph, then changing lanes between the two can be pretty dangerous.
At best, it probably spreads out congestion at the merge points, which is a good thing. But you're probably still going to have people slam on the brakes in the HOT lanes as they either (A) slow down to squeeze into the GP lane, or (B) have someone cut in front of them from the GP lane and try to get up to speed.
Quote- build more left exits to discourage movements to/from the express lanes
Yes. Unfortunately, this is also the most expensive option.
Quote- introduce hard shoulder running for buses and HOV, who are only on the freeway for a short distance.
They are doing this on the north end where it will help most. The issue with doing it further south is that the transit stops are mixed between the left and right side. Once buses get back on the freeway on the right side at NE 160th St, shoulder running won't help since they need to get to the HOT lanes to serve the left-side stop at NE 128th. South of there, there's a right side stop at NE 70th, but it's barely used (only two Metro routes stop there, no Sound Transit routes). Buses to downtown Bellevue have straight shot to the end of the HOT lanes at NE 6th; buses to Seattle have to cross back to the right side for the SR 520 exit.
Unless we can spend millions (billions?) of dollars on your third solution and get HOV ramps at the 520 interchange (you'd only really need 520 EB->405 NB and 405 SB->520 WB, but that's still $$$$), and maybe replace the transit stop at 70th with a HOT lane interchange, there's not an easy fix for transit south of Totem Lake.
Governor Inslee held a press conference today outlining some changes to be made to the I-405 express toll lanes, as well as some other improvements to I-5 and incident response:
Quote
Inslee directs changes to I-405 express toll lanes, repairs to I-5 and funding for more Incident Response Teams
February 16, 2016 - Governor Inslee's Communications Office
Gov. Jay Inslee today announced a slate of changes to improve safety and reduce congestion along the most congested areas of I-5 and I-405 including short- and long-term fixes to the I-405 express toll lanes, the need to replace aging expansion joints on Interstate 5, and to promote additional funding for WSDOT's incident response teams.
http://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/inslee-directs-changes-i-405-express-toll-lanes-repairs-i-5-and-funding-more-incident (http://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/inslee-directs-changes-i-405-express-toll-lanes-repairs-i-5-and-funding-more-incident)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdNK9cql.png&hash=551f04ddfafef0bad3c66fd4de085375c17c3f76)
The Washington State Transportation Commission ordered the 405 toll lanes to be free on nights, weekends, and holidays. This new tolling schedule began yesterday. Before the ETL, the 405 HOV lanes north of Bellevue operated as 2+ 0500 to 1900 7 days a week, but now operate as Pass/HOV 2/3+ 0500 to 1900 Monday through Friday. This means that, for example, at 1330 on a Saturday, there will no longer be HOV lanes north of Bellevue. Very strange, at least to me; Seattle has never had day-of-the-week restrictions for "HOV" lanes before.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Qn7MRCW6_dg/VuiODe14t1I/AAAAAAAACf0/xtXrN8s9KEYrhZXl_n00WK47GXjVDBRbg/s1600/Tollpic.jpg)
Additionally, the weave-style access point for the ETL north of the 520 Fwy is now skip-stripe. This allowed for a longer merge from the 520, as well as a longer access point, a chief complaint among drivers. Here's a diagram from WSDOT:
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xssLE913eeY/Vul_qrN98_I/AAAAAAAACgM/QPfv3nR3uH4XWUcyFjp2oQtUdpjVNfiDw/s1600/ETL520AccessChokePointBeforeAndAfterV7.png)
Quote from: jakeroot on March 19, 2016, 07:17:22 PM
The Washington State Transportation Commission ordered the 405 toll lanes to be free on nights, weekends, and holidays. This new tolling schedule began yesterday. Before the ETL, the 405 HOV lanes north of Bellevue operated as 2+ 0500 to 1900 7 days a week, but now operate as Pass/HOV 2/3+ 0500 to 1900 Monday through Friday. This means that, for example, at 1330 on a Saturday, there will no longer be HOV lanes north of Bellevue. Very strange, at least to me; Seattle has never had day-of-the-week restrictions for "HOV" lanes before.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Qn7MRCW6_dg/VuiODe14t1I/AAAAAAAACf0/xtXrN8s9KEYrhZXl_n00WK47GXjVDBRbg/s1600/Tollpic.jpg)
That new setup for the I-405 Express Lanes in the Seattle area is the primary way express lanes are setup in northern California. Both the newly opened I-580 Express Lanes and the I-680 Southbound Express Lane are only in operation Monday thru Friday from 5:00 AM to 8:00 PM. The lanes are open to all to use without paying a toll at all other times. The one difference though is holidays. AFAIK, the express lanes here will operate on holidays but given the lack of commute traffic, tolls will be very low.
One question I can't get answered...
Are the double, double striped lines enforced when the lanes are open to all?
Quote from: TEG24601 on March 21, 2016, 12:27:17 PM
One question I can't get answered...
Are the double, double striped lines enforced when the lanes are open to all?
Enforced? I don't think there'll ever be an official answer there. But the white lines are still illegal to cross. They answered this on the WSDOT Blog (http://goo.gl/ELYCP2):
Quote
Use the designated access points. Drivers must observe the designated access points, and are not permitted to cross the double white lines at any time. Failure to observe these rules may result in a $136 ticket. WSDOT designed an express toll lanes interactive map to help drivers learn the access points and plan trips.
Quote from: TEG24601 on March 21, 2016, 12:27:17 PM
Are the double, double striped lines enforced when the lanes are open to all?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeEX3Cn8NgU
Would the Express Lanes work better if they went the entire length of Interstate 405?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 22, 2016, 04:44:43 PM
Would the Express Lanes work better if they went the entire length of Interstate 405?
That's the plan. The southern segment was unfunded until just recently. It also is only 2+HOV south of I-90, so it would mean a controversial widening through a narrow strip of land between some hills and the lake.
Quote from: Bruce on March 22, 2016, 04:49:59 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 22, 2016, 04:44:43 PM
Would the Express Lanes work better if they went the entire length of Interstate 405?
That's the plan. The southern segment was unfunded until just recently. It also is only 2+HOV south of I-90, so it would mean a controversial widening through a narrow strip of land between some hills and the lake.
They're currently clearing land in Talbot Hill for an HOV connector ramp between the 405 and 167 freeways (http://goo.gl/AtKIVm). Once those freeways are connected, and the 405 ETL extended south, I wonder if they'll change the 167's HOT system into an ETL system? It seems odd to me to require a pass for only part of the route between Auburn and Lynnwood. WSDOT looks at the 167/405 express lanes as one route, so I would assume that one will change into the other at some point.