I can't imagine how many times someone has confused the state of Louisiana with Los Angeles thanks to the official abbreviation being the exact same thing. Why does a state still share an abbreviation with the second-most-populous city in the country? Now in the days of the internet, I bet it can only get worse due to text conversations and someone forgetting to put in periods between L and A when referring to Los Angeles. I think Louisiana's official abbreviation should really be changed to LS or something to that effect...
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 27, 2015, 06:53:50 PM
I can't imagine how many times someone has confused the state of Louisiana with Los Angeles thanks to the official abbreviation being the exact same thing. Why does a state still share an abbreviation with the second-most-populous city in the country? Now in the days of the internet, I bet it can only get worse due to text conversations and someone forgetting to put in periods between L and A when referring to Los Angeles. I think Louisiana's official abbreviation should really be changed to LS or something to that effect...
My mind occasionally jumbles up LA XXX as Los Angeles XXX. I know, it's kind of stupid, but LA always meant Los Angeles for me. Granted, I believe the state of Louisiana came first, but I agree that it's confusing. Especially if someone says they are going to "LA" and you have to figure out if they meant Louisiana or Los Angeles.
LS would work, but LS reminds me too much of Los Santos from GTA, which ironically, is Los Angeles in GTA form. :bigass:
Some of us have never been confused. Of course, we think in terms of NOLA and things like that. :bigass:
:eyebrow:
Imagine the poor folks who get confused by Washington, DC and Washington State.
Quote from: The Nature Boy on May 27, 2015, 07:26:50 PM
Imagine the poor folks who get confused by Washington, DC and Washington State.
It's really awesome. :angry:
Quote from: Zeffy on May 27, 2015, 06:57:46 PM
Especially if someone says they are going to "LA" and you have to figure out if they meant Louisiana or Los Angeles.
I don't think it's particularly common for people to refer to Lousiana as "El-Eh". That's basically reserved for Los Angeles.
Perhaps LO? Or LU?
Quote from: jakeroot on May 27, 2015, 08:32:48 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on May 27, 2015, 06:57:46 PM
Especially if someone says they are going to "LA" and you have to figure out if they meant Louisiana or Los Angeles.
I don't think it's particularly common for people to refer to Lousiana as "El-Eh". That's basically reserved for Los Angeles.
Perhaps LO? Or LU?
LA is ambiguous in writing, but not in speech.
Sorry, but no way. Louisiana's abbreviation has been the same since long before the Postal Service came out with their standardized state abbreviations -- it was "Baton Rouge, La.", "New Orleans, La.", etc., waaaaay back when. Probably even before there was a Los Angeles.
The only time I hear anyone refer to Louisiana as "LA" in speech is in discussing highway names. And I've lived here for over 30 years.
Louisiana's been here over 200 years. And you want 4.5 million residents of the Bayou State (that's more than are in Los Angeles, by the way) and hundreds of thousands of businesses to change all their documents, letterhead, legal matters, etc., because some fool can't be bothered to type a couple of periods?
States have official abbreviations (from the Postal Service). Cities do not.
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 27, 2015, 06:53:50 PM
I can't imagine how many times someone has confused the state of Louisiana with Los Angeles thanks to the official abbreviation being the exact same thing.
It probably depends on the context, but I imagine it's relatively few.
QuoteNow in the days of the internet...
Am I missing something here? The internet has been in general usage for over 20 years now. "Now in the days of the internet" would've been something people said in 1995. We've gotten this far with people failing to confuse Louisiana with Los Angeles; I don't think we have to artificially create a conflict with the abbreviations.
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 27, 2015, 10:30:38 PM
Quote
Am I missing something here? The internet has been in general usage for over 20 years now.
Why on earth should that matter? The point is still the same. The more we as a society rely on text to communicate, the more of a problem it becomes when two important places have the exact same abbreviation.
iPhone
Again, based on what problem? I'm unaware of any issues of people using LA incorrectly. Heck, the closest people come would be to use NOLA for New Orleans. You still haven't mentioned how this has been a problem in the real world.
Hey LA is not only used for Los Angeles and Louisiana, but in New Jersey its is used to abbreviate Lane. NJDOT uses it in Woodbridge, or they have a few years back, on the US 1 overhead for Gill Lane as "Gill La" instead of "Gill Ln" like most places do. I have seen it elsewhere including growing up in Clark Township "La" was quite common.
I really do not think we have to worry about anything. I have come to notice that LA in speech means Los Angeles and only in writing does LA mean the State of Louisiana especially how its used in a sentence. In verbal tongue it is used as a prefix to their state highways, such as LA 1, LA 20, etc. Most people use the state name proper when referring to Louisiana when, at least, I have heard them talk.
If it is confusion, it is petty and I think we can adjust. Just like New Yorkers have adjusted to having both New York City and New York State referred to as both "New York" this will be the same. Yes having the city and state does create some confusion, but New Yorkers of both have not yet decided to change either the state or city, its just part of life for them.
I guess you could have the same conversation about CA for California or Canada. But eventually, like the OP, you figure out which one is which.
L.A. -> Los Angeles.
La. or LA -> Louisiana.
Problem solved.
Quote from: kkt on May 28, 2015, 04:01:40 PM
L.A. -> Los Angeles.
La. or LA -> Louisiana.
The full stops between letters are cryptic at best.
Quote from: txstateends on May 28, 2015, 11:24:09 AM
I guess you could have the same conversation about CA for California or Canada. But eventually, like the OP, you figure out which one is which.
Ontario, CA is the worst offender.
I lived in Vancouver, WA for a while. Pretty much everything about it can be confused with something else that's more well-known*.
---
Vancouver, WA, USA - Vancouver, British Columbia, Ca.
Washington - Washington, D.C.
Portland, OR (neighboring city) - Portland, ME*
Clark County, WA - Clark County, NV (Las Vegas)
Area Code 360 encompasses most of Western Washington except for the Seattle-Tacoma area.
*exception
WA - Washington State, or Western Australia
Don't overabbreviate if you want to be clear
Quote from: kkt on May 29, 2015, 10:18:26 AM
WA - Washington State, or Western Australia
If you set Garmin GPS units to Australian English, the "guide" will say, for example, "In 1 mile, slight right onto Western Australia 18" (WA-18) in a very sporting Aussie accent.
Quote from: doorknob60 on May 28, 2015, 06:21:51 PM
Quote from: txstateends on May 28, 2015, 11:24:09 AM
I guess you could have the same conversation about CA for California or Canada. But eventually, like the OP, you figure out which one is which.
Ontario, CA is the worst offender.
Man... don't get me started on that. My company does business with/supports a company that has warehouse locations in Ontario, California and Milton, Ontario. And half the time they'll just call in identifying themselves as "Ontario".
What about if you're in Memphis and you tell someone you're going to Jackson? Do you always have to say Tennessee or Mississippi? Or if you're in St. Louis and you're going to Springfield? You have to distinguish the one in Illinois (which is closer) or Missouri.
Newark NJ Newark DE
A lot of the two-letter abbreviations are a little squirrelly, but we're so used to them that we don't notice. The convention used by many states where they take the first and last letters of the state doesn't really make a whole lot of sense...were I given a blank slate and told to pick abbreviations, Louisiana would be LU, Pennsylvania would be PE (or maybe PN), Virginia would be VI (or VR if I needed to avoid conflict with the Virgin Islands) and Georgia would be GE. (ME for Maine is weird too, but every other possible second letter for Maine would conflict with at least one other state, so I can live with it.)
But we've had the same abbreviations for 50+ years now so it's not worth changing.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2015, 04:29:17 AMPennsylvania would be PE (or maybe PN)
I can't see PN as state abbreviation, since in Spanish sounds like 'pene' which means penis :sombrero:.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2015, 04:29:17 AM(ME for Maine is weird too, but every other possible second letter for Maine would conflict with at least one other state, so I can live with it.)
In Italy they also use two letter abbreviations of its provinces (They have 110 of them :-o, though I believe now they only exist on the maps). When in 1992 Crotone province was created, it turned out that any two letter combo was already in use: CR is Cremona, CO Como, CT Catania, CN Cuneo and CE Caserta. So Crotone had to go with KR instead (Which makes me to spell it Krotone).
When the Los Angeles metro area becomes a state, we can talk about it being confused with the state of Louisiana. Until then, LA for Louisiana and L. A. or simply noting the context and spelling out Los Angeles (or maybe, City/County of LA??), will do for most people. I don't think people will confuse my residence of Opelousas, LA with LA, CA any time soon.
Quote from: GaryV on May 27, 2015, 09:11:21 PM
States have official abbreviations (from the Postal Service). Cities do not.
The Postal Service has official state abbreviations for its use. I would be surprised if Louisiana has an "official abbreviation" outside internal government style manuals.
La. vs. L.A. is no more ambiguous to me than the abbreviation "Mass." is from the concept of mass.
However, it is a good demonstration of why the Postal Service's easy-on-the-computer's-eye two-letter abbreviations are not the best answer for all usages, even though many use them exclusively in writing. When I last used it, the AP Style Manual, for one, eschewed this practice in favor of the more verbose styles, presumably in part for this reason.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2015, 04:29:17 AM
A lot of the two-letter abbreviations are a little squirrelly, but we're so used to them that we don't notice. The convention used by many states where they take the first and last letters of the state doesn't really make a whole lot of sense...were I given a blank slate and told to pick abbreviations, Louisiana would be LU, Pennsylvania would be PE (or maybe PN), Virginia would be VI (or VR if I needed to avoid conflict with the Virgin Islands) and Georgia would be GE. (ME for Maine is weird too, but every other possible second letter for Maine would conflict with at least one other state, so I can live with it.)
But we've had the same abbreviations for 50+ years now so it's not worth changing.
In the 1700s abbreviations used the first and last letters of the word commonly.. Md. Va. etc.. Or those 2 worded states were N.J. N.Y. been around since the start
Anyone stupid enough to confuse Los Angeles an Louisiana deserves what they get.
A lady i worked with had a friend ask his secretary to make reservations for a hotel in New Orleans, LA. She could not find anything, she thought New Orleans was a suburb of Los Angeles...
Flying from Indianapolis home to Jacksonville, FL a Marine tried to get on the plane with headed to Camp Lejune.
" you can't fix stupid"
Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on June 01, 2015, 05:40:35 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2015, 04:29:17 AMPennsylvania would be PE (or maybe PN)
I can't see PN as state abbreviation, since in Spanish sounds like 'pene' which means penis :sombrero:.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2015, 04:29:17 AM(ME for Maine is weird too, but every other possible second letter for Maine would conflict with at least one other state, so I can live with it.)
In Italy they also use two letter abbreviations of its provinces (They have 110 of them :-o, though I believe now they only exist on the maps). When in 1992 Crotone province was created, it turned out that any two letter combo was already in use: CR is Cremona, CO Como, CT Catania, CN Cuneo and CE Caserta. So Crotone had to go with KR instead (Which makes me to spell it Krotone).
How about KY? The joke about nasty tasting Kentucky jelly.
I am a Doctor or Chiropractic ( DC) and then medical doctors (MD). Both state/jurisdiction abbreviations. Imagine the confusion of a chiropractor with the last name Washington. Or a medical doctor with the last name Baltimore. MS means multiple sclerosis, MD muscular dystrophy. At least its not East and West Dakota. Imagine the fun with Fargo, ED
It all comes down to context.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 01, 2015, 04:29:17 AM
...were I given a blank slate and told to pick abbreviations, ...Pennsylvania would be PE
I first recoiled in horror at your suggestion of PE, but then I realized you're not so wrong. I remember the shock of learning that "Pennsylvania 6-5000" from the Glenn Miller song was PE-6-5000–not PA-6-5000 as I had always imagined. It was as jarring as that moment when you first see the faces instead of the vase.
La. never made sense to me, but then I realized that the USPS tends to use (x)A abbreviations for state names ending in the feminine "–a" or "–ia" suffix (Georgia, Pennsylvania, Virginia). This predates the modern two capital letter abbreviations–they were commonly Ga., Pa. (or Penna.), and Va. in the old days.
Whatever process was used to formulate the state postal abbreviations does seem rather "fuzzy" . It starts out very definitely and then devolves into confusion:
- Starting with the full list of states, take all two-word state names and use the initial of each word as the abbreviation
(10 states - 100% compliance) - Of the remaining, use the first two letters of the state name
(19 states - 63% compliance - GE, HA, IO, KA, KE, LO, PE, VE, VI, MOntana, and TEnn or TEx could have been used but weren't) - Of the remaining, use the first and last letters of the state name
(12 states - 75% compliance - AA, NA, TE, and TS could have been used but weren't) - Of the remaining, the rule seems to be "use the first letter and a relatively important consonant"
...leaving MO as perhaps the most nonsensical state abbreviation.
MO exists because MI conflicts with Michigan and MS conflicts with Mississippi. The O is the next available letter that doesn't conflict with anything. MO is probably more aesthetically pleasing than MU or MR, the other possible abbreviations.
The first-and-last letter convention may have been a common way of abbreviating in the 1700s, but it isn't now.
For anyone that watches "Are you smarter than a 5th grader", one of the questions Tuesday night was "What is the official abbreviation of Michigan?"
Everyone got MI correct.
Quote from: Scott5114 on June 03, 2015, 05:22:52 AM
MO exists because MI conflicts with Michigan and MS conflicts with Mississippi. The O is the next available letter that doesn't conflict with anything. MO is probably more aesthetically pleasing than MU or MR, the other possible abbreviations.
The first-and-last letter convention may have been a common way of abbreviating in the 1700s, but it isn't now.
Mo was the abbreviation for Missouri long before the postal 2-letter abbreviations were set up. Government Printing Office (the official style manual for government agencies) and the Associated Press both used Mo.
There exists a parallel system of two-letter state abbreviations for use by the US Coast Guard for vessel registrations. This system closely tracks what the USPS has, but there are 12 exceptions:
California is CF
Colorado is CL
Delaware is DL
Hawaii is HA
Kansas is KA
Massachusetts is MS
Michigan is MC
Mississippi is MI
Nebraska is NB*
Washington is WN
Wisconsin is WS
the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas Islands is CM*, not MP.
*NB and CM used to be the USPS abbreviations as well.
These letter codes are most commonly found as the beginning of the registration numbers that are applied to both sides of the bow of a boat along with a state registration sticker. These decals function much like a license plate in a maritime setting.
^Frankly, KA and HA are the only one of those that makes any sense at all. Did these abbreviations predate the USPS ones?
According to a posting on a different forum, the Coast Guard abbreviations originate with the Federal Boating Act of 1958, which predates the USPS abbreviations from 1963. The USPS standardized on two-letter state codes to save space on mailing labels so that ZIP codes could fit.