Just recently, I drove I-19 from Tucson to Nogales and back. I was surprised to see that this stretch of road is marked by the kilometer rather than the mile. It was interesting, even though I know the reason is that because the road goes right to the Mexican border.
Has I-19 always been marked by the kilometer rather than the mile? If not, when did this change?
It's always been by km. I've heard that it's actually due to a US push to switch to metric that existed at the time, and that the fact that it goes to Mexico is coincidence.
Quote from: vdeane on May 28, 2015, 09:49:25 PM
It's always been by km. I've heard that it's actually due to a US push to switch to metric that existed at the time, and that the fact that it goes to Mexico is coincidence.
Hmm, very interesting that the fact it goes right to the Mexican border would be just by coincidence. Thanks for the reply and the information!
It's kind of odd how I-19 is a fairly minor interstate in the US and it is one of Mexico's most important routes (15D). Driving from Tucson to Mexico City is actually on my bucket list.
As stated above, it was due to the push toward the metric system, and IMO, it was also because it would be more convenient to drivers from mexico. ADOT has made efforts to resign the highway in miles, but I think local opposition mainly from businesses not wanting to change info on billboards and such foiled their plans
Quote from: pumpkineater2 on May 29, 2015, 12:01:27 AM
As stated above, it was due to the push toward the metric system, and IMO, it was also because it would be more convenient to drivers from mexico. ADOT has made efforts to resign the highway in miles, but I think local opposition mainly from businesses not wanting to change info on billboards and such foiled their plans
Which I guess makes sense, and I can't say I would blame them for not wanting to have to change their advertisements and/or billboards.
Quote from: vdeane on May 28, 2015, 09:49:25 PMIt's always been by km. I've heard that it's actually due to a US push to switch to metric that existed at the time, and that the fact that it goes to Mexico is coincidence.
Not always--it was built in pieces from the 1960's onward and these were initially signed in English units. The metric signs were erected in 1981 in a single contract that covered the entire length from Nogales to Tucson. The 1981 signs were replaced in 1999. Some of the 1981 signs were also bilingual (including the old white-on-green Arizona welcome sign), but were not replaced in kind in 1999; however, the 1999 signing contracts included bilingual firearms-and-ammunition warnings.
Was Interstate 19 ever proposed to actually enter Mexico, or was it always to have ended where it does now, at N. West Street?
Quote
Not always--it was built in pieces from the 1960's onward and these were initially signed in English units. The metric signs were erected in 1981 in a single contract that covered the entire length from Nogales to Tucson. The 1981 signs were replaced in 1999. Some of the 1981 signs were also bilingual (including the old white-on-green Arizona welcome sign), but were not replaced in kind in 1999; however, the 1999 signing contracts included bilingual firearms-and-ammunition warnings.
That is correct. I possess a 1971 Chevron Arizona map (Standard Oil) and it shows two sections of I-19 having been finished - the section immediately south of I-10 and a section just north of Nogales AZ city limits.
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
It is probably something that was never implemented between US and Mexico similar to how I-35 ends at a road near the border but not at the border.
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 09, 2015, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
It is probably something that was never implemented between US and Mexico similar to how I-35 ends at a road near the border but not at the border.
Only I-35 ends 150 km from the Canadian border. There was a thread a while back about the possibility (and feasibility) of extending I-35 to the Canadian border at ON 61 using MN 61.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 09, 2015, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 09, 2015, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
It is probably something that was never implemented between US and Mexico similar to how I-35 ends at a road near the border but not at the border.
Only I-35 ends 150 km from the Canadian border. There was a thread a while back about the possibility (and feasibility) of extending I-35 to the Canadian border at ON 61 using MN 61.
Here's a vote for keeping MN 61 the way it is.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 09, 2015, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 09, 2015, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
It is probably something that was never implemented between US and Mexico similar to how I-35 ends at a road near the border but not at the border.
Only I-35 ends 150 km from the Canadian border. There was a thread a while back about the possibility (and feasibility) of extending I-35 to the Canadian border at ON 61 using MN 61.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@27.5049329,-99.4984127,16z
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 09, 2015, 08:28:06 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 09, 2015, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 09, 2015, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
It is probably something that was never implemented between US and Mexico similar to how I-35 ends at a road near the border but not at the border.
Only I-35 ends 150 km from the Canadian border. There was a thread a while back about the possibility (and feasibility) of extending I-35 to the Canadian border at ON 61 using MN 61.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@27.5049329,-99.4984127,16z
Ah. Wrong border. :banghead:
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 09, 2015, 08:49:08 PM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 09, 2015, 08:28:06 PM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 09, 2015, 07:06:05 PM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 09, 2015, 06:53:41 PM
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
It is probably something that was never implemented between US and Mexico similar to how I-35 ends at a road near the border but not at the border.
Only I-35 ends 150 km from the Canadian border. There was a thread a while back about the possibility (and feasibility) of extending I-35 to the Canadian border at ON 61 using MN 61.
https://www.google.ca/maps/@27.5049329,-99.4984127,16z
Ah. Wrong border. :banghead:
I didn't mention it was the Mexican border :banghead: :banghead:
We last discussed I-19's routing in the Nogales area in a thread ostensibly dealing with questions not "big" enough to open a separate thread (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11744.msg287717#msg287717). Actually I think the issue rates its own thread, but that was where it was raised, so that is where the discussion happened.
Essentially, at the time I-19 was built in the Nogales area, there was no comparable facility south of the border with which it could form a direct connection. The routing eventually adopted injects cross-border traffic at the back of the queue for the DeConcini (downtown) POE while providing much better local traffic service for Nogales since, unlike SR 189, it passes through or near the parts of town that actually have population.
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
I'm curious to see if the Interstate 11 improvements proposed in southern Arizona will somehow change the port of entry location and realign freeways so that there is a direct freeway connection to Mexico Federal 15D. I'm still not sure how Interstate 11 and Interstate 19 are going to coexist if they both go through Tucson and Nogales.
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
I don't think you know what that word means.
Quote from: andy3175 on July 14, 2015, 12:10:30 AM
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
I'm curious to see if the Interstate 11 improvements proposed in southern Arizona will somehow change the port of entry location and realign freeways so that there is a direct freeway connection to Mexico Federal 15D. I'm still not sure how Interstate 11 and Interstate 19 are going to coexist if they both go through Tucson and Nogales.
I didn't think I-11 was going that far south. Maybe a connection to I-19 somewhere, but not all the way to the border.
Quote from: roadfro on July 14, 2015, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: andy3175 on July 14, 2015, 12:10:30 AM
Quote from: 707 on July 09, 2015, 01:30:09 PM
That is an interesting question. I've always wondered why I-19 doesn't meet up with FED 15D? And legislatively, I-19 continues as Compound Street and Sonoita Avenue to a terminus at Crawford Street as per ADOT Route Logs and Google Maps.
I'm curious to see if the Interstate 11 improvements proposed in southern Arizona will somehow change the port of entry location and realign freeways so that there is a direct freeway connection to Mexico Federal 15D. I'm still not sure how Interstate 11 and Interstate 19 are going to coexist if they both go through Tucson and Nogales.
I didn't think I-11 was going that far south. Maybe a connection to I-19 somewhere, but not all the way to the border.
Yes I found a reference to Nogales as a possible southern terminus (along with other possible connections to Mexico in southern Arizona) in the corridor study:
http://i11study.com/PDF/2014/I-11CCR_Brochure_11x17_Final_2014-11.pdf
QuoteTechnical Actions: ... Initiate environmental clearance and design process for the area between Nogales and Casa Grande to determine the I-11 corridor alignment
http://i11study.com/PDF/2014/I-11CCR_Report_2014-12_sm.pdf
Page 33:
QuoteThe recommended I-11 and Intermountain West Corridor (depicted in Figure 7 on page 19) is envisioned to be a continuous high-capacity trade corridor extending from Nogales, Arizona to Las Vegas, Nevada and potentially beyond towards Canada. This trade corridor is
anticipated to support the diversification of the economies of both Arizona and Nevada to include a higher proportion of large-scale manufacturing operations that will rely on dependable movements of goods and services between the two states and adjacent regions.
Page 36:
QuoteThe "Interim Corridor" assumes implementation of targeted improvements to create a continuous 4-lane divided highway from
Nogales to Las Vegas. The goal of implementing this interim condition is to facilitate trade movements between Mexico, Arizona, and
Nevada — until such a time as the ultimate trade corridor is deemed needed (as depicted in Figure 7 on page 19).
Page 41:
QuoteConnecting the Corridor to Mexico: The preferred connection to Mexico in Southern Arizona is through the Tucson metropolitan region to Nogales. This connection links major freight and economic activity centers in Arizona and Mexico and provides the most direct international connection to trade corridors in Mexico–including the only land port of entry in Arizona with a connecting rail line (UPRR/Ferromex) and reciprocal high-capacity transportation corridor (Mexico Highway 15). The corridor is also aligned with statewide
studies to develop congestion solutions in and around the Tucson Metropolitan Area, paired with efficient transportation connections to the Nogales area, to make both passenger and freight travel times more reliable.
^ Well, that shows how much I've read up on the more recent I-11 documents...
Quote from: roadfro on July 16, 2015, 02:11:11 AM
^ Well, that shows how much I've read up on the more recent I-11 documents...
Yes, not to do overkill. When I searched for the word "Nogales," I was surprised how many times it came up in the narrative. I do think Nogales was added into the study more recently and was not initially part of the main study area.