I guess this is mainly a Southern California thing. Instead of say I-5 or I-405, I usually heard "the 5", "the 405", "the 805", etc. Is this common practice anywhere else.
The Phoenix area, directly inherited from SoCal.
Here in my area I commonly hear (and say myself) "the 401", "the 404", "the QEW", etc. Maybe only for the 400 series highways though; Highway 7 is never "the 7".
In the phoenix area, I usually only say/hear "the" when referring to loop 101,202, and 303. When referring to interstates, or US routes, I typically say/hear "I-10", or "US 60"
I think it sounds wrong to say "the" when talking about an interstate; the prefix for interstates is I. No need for this "the" business, but that's just me.
I think people migrating from Southern California are going to Seattle looking for water. I'm starting to hear 'the' being used up here.
Quote from: sammi on May 30, 2015, 01:15:46 AM
Here in my area I commonly hear (and say myself) "the 401", "the 404", "the QEW", etc. Maybe only for the 400 series highways though; Highway 7 is never "the 7".
When I used to live in Hamilton, everyone called the Lincoln M. Alexander Parkway "the Linc". Take "the Linc" west to the "4 oh 3" east until you hit the "4 oh 1".
It's one of the few truly distinctive aspects of the Los Angeles regional dialect. As such it shows up in places with a lot of former Angelinos (Phoenix, Seattle, Las Vegas, perhaps Denver?).
The first moment I realized it was non-standard English was when I moved to Virginia, and I referred to a place "on the way to the 64." Other Angelinos immediately understood I meant the nearby Interstate 64, while non-Angelinos had to think about it.
Within California but outside the LA metro area, it's a very strong north-south divide. If you use "the," you're identifying with Los Angeles, and are therefore to be scorned. If you don't, you are identifying with the San Francisco Bay area... and are therefore to be doubly scorned.
I hear the for FL 417 on some traffic reports. You will here something like "an accident on the 417" or "traffic slow on the 408" however I-4 is I-4 and FL 436 is four thirty six.
There is one person on this forum who says "the I-95," "the I-87," etc., and purported to "correct" me one time when I did not use the word "the" in a sentence along the lines of, "I-95 is backed up for ten miles from I-495 to Woodbridge." This person claimed it should have been "The I-95 is backed up ... from the I-495 to Woodbridge." I believe that poster lives somewhere in New York State. I've never heard anyone else use "the" before "I-xx" except where grammar requires it (an example might be "allegedly the I-95 interchange with the Pennsylvania Turnpike will be constructed before the Second Coming").
I don't understand the need for "the" either in addition to or in place of "I-," or for that matter any other route indicator. The route number should be sufficient on its own because the context of giving directions or describing roads makes it clear enough. "Take northbound 495 to 270, follow it to where it ends, and continue straight onto 15 until you see the exit for Gettysburg." I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to use "the." (With that said, I use "I-" or "US-" or whatever when I give directions because I figure it helps prompt the other person to look for a particular route marker.)
The exception to the route number being enough would, of course, be where the same number is used twice in close proximity. The infamous sign near Clear Spring, Maryland, distinguishing between MD-68 and I-68 would be a fine example of a situation where "Take 70 west to 68" is insufficient. But the use of "the" wouldn't make anything clearer.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2015, 09:01:20 AM
There is one person on this forum who says "the I-95," "the I-87," etc., and purported to "correct" me one time when I did not use the word "the" in a sentence along the lines of, "I-95 is backed up for ten miles from I-495 to Woodbridge." This person claimed it should have been "The I-95 is backed up ... from the I-495 to Woodbridge." I believe that poster lives somewhere in New York State.
Ontario uses it, and New York borders Ontario (across rivers with several toll bridges). Depending on where exactly he lives, it might be normal to use it there.
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2015, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2015, 09:01:20 AM
There is one person on this forum who says "the I-95," "the I-87," etc., and purported to "correct" me one time when I did not use the word "the" in a sentence along the lines of, "I-95 is backed up for ten miles from I-495 to Woodbridge." This person claimed it should have been "The I-95 is backed up ... from the I-495 to Woodbridge." I believe that poster lives somewhere in New York State.
Ontario uses it, and New York borders Ontario (across rivers with several toll bridges). Depending on where exactly he lives, it might be normal to use it there.
But does Ontario use it before another sort of route designator? That was what I was noting–instead of the style "the 401" that is used in Ontario or parts of California, this poster would say "the I-95." So instead of "take the 95 to the 87," which already sounds wrong to me, this poster would say "take the I-95 to the I-87." I don't understand that to be a common style in Ontario or anywhere.
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2015, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2015, 09:01:20 AM
There is one person on this forum who says "the I-95," "the I-87," etc., and purported to "correct" me one time when I did not use the word "the" in a sentence along the lines of, "I-95 is backed up for ten miles from I-495 to Woodbridge." This person claimed it should have been "The I-95 is backed up ... from the I-495 to Woodbridge." I believe that poster lives somewhere in New York State.
Ontario uses it, and New York borders Ontario (across rivers with several toll bridges). Depending on where exactly he lives, it might be normal to use it there.
I have heard people from Western New York do this, come to think of it. But out here in the coastal Northeast, it's "Route xx" or just the number, or even the road's name instead of either. In the last case "the" is used, as in "the Deegan," "the Southeast Expressway." I think I've only heard non-native English speakers not say "the" with names of this type, though I have seen them written online in otherwise proper prose without "the," which of course reads terribly.
I can think of situations where leaving out "the" with that sort of road name sounds better. Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn is a good example. You don't say "take the Ocean Parkway to Foster Avenue," for example. In that case it's more in the nature of a street name. I guess it has to do with how the road functions. Around the corner from my neighborhood there's a street called "Kingstowne Village Parkway" that never gets a "the," but about a mile and a half or so to the west there's a road that's always called "the Franconia—Springfield Parkway" ("the" is never omitted). I'd be hard-pressed to come up with any logic beyond "I know it when I see it," but I suppose maybe there's something to the idea of whether the road functions as a regular street versus whether it functions more in the nature of a higher-speed highway. (I suppose this really is sort of illogical when you get right down to it. Why should "Lake Village Drive" be any different from "George Washington Memorial Parkway" in whether you preface it with "the"? But it is different.)
I've heard XM traffic reporters omitting "the" when it's needed and inserting it when it's not. For example, "I-95 is slow from Occoquan River Bridge [should have a 'the' before the bridge's name] to the Triangle [should not have a 'the' because it's the name of a town]." In this case I think it's simply poor training when it comes to reading text off a screen. As you say, it's very jarring when you hear it misused.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2015, 09:01:20 AM
There is one person on this forum who says "the I-95," "the I-87," etc., and purported to "correct" me one time when I did not use the word "the" in a sentence along the lines of, "I-95 is backed up for ten miles from I-495 to Woodbridge." This person claimed it should have been "The I-95 is backed up ... from the I-495 to Woodbridge." I believe that poster lives somewhere in New York State.
They reside in New Jersey.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on May 30, 2015, 09:46:53 AM
I have heard people from Western New York do this, come to think of it. But out here in the coastal Northeast, it's "Route xx" or just the number, or even the road's name instead of either. In the last case "the" is used, as in "the Deegan," "the Southeast Expressway." I think I've only heard non-native English speakers not say "the" with names of this type, though I have seen them written online in otherwise proper prose without "the," which of course reads terribly.
In New Jersey, you have
the Turnpike,
the Parkway, and, to some extent,
the Expressway (evidently what they call the Atlantic City Expressway). Everything else is Route XX or just the numbers itself. Then in New York City, you have
the B.Q.E.,
the Van Wyck, etc. Interestingly enough, I've heard people say "Take Long Island Expressway to.." without using the.
Do people in Pennsylvania call I-76 the Schuylkill (or as they like to refer to it - the
Surekill :sombrero: )?
Regarding, "I-95 is slow from Occoquan River Bridge [should have a 'the' before the bridge's name] to the Triangle [should not have a 'the' because it's the name of a town].", here's another correction. It should be "The I-95".
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 11:22:09 AM
Regarding, "I-95 is slow from Occoquan River Bridge [should have a 'the' before the bridge's name] to the Triangle [should not have a 'the' because it's the name of a town].", here's another correction. It should be "The I-95".
Why? There is no reason for "the" there. Your comment is not a "correction."
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 11:22:09 AM
Regarding, "I-95 is slow from Occoquan River Bridge [should have a 'the' before the bridge's name] to the Triangle [should not have a 'the' because it's the name of a town].", here's another correction. It should be "The I-95".
No, there is no "The". Especially from Jersey, where have you ever seen "The" used in front of a route number?
Well, if they had said "The Shirley Highway ..." would there have been a problem?
Read it out:
"The Interstate 95 is slow..."
"Interstate 95 is slow..."
You are referring to Interstate 95, which is the entire subject. By adding The, you change the subject to just 95, with Interstate being an adjective.
Thus, "I-95 is slow" is the proper way to say the highway designation.
I've always heard "the" before interstate highway designations, but only then. I heard it on KYW this morning when they reported on lane realignments,
For state and county highways, its "Route 70" or just "561".
Quote from: Zeffy on May 30, 2015, 11:10:35 AMIn New Jersey, you have the Turnpike, the Parkway, and, to some extent in South Jersey, the Expressway (evidently what they call the Atlantic City Expressway).
FTFY. People in North Jersey, for reasons made obvious by looking at a map, have very little to do with the Atlantic City Expressway. There's little enough familiarity that you don't really have a shorthand for it up there. But this is digression.
more simply, in the greater Philly area, you only use "the" with a named highway. It's either "76" or "the Schuylkill," "676" or "the Vine," "276" or "the (PA) Turnpike," "476" or "the Blue Route" or "the NE Extension." the only partial exception is 42 - it's either "42" or "the 42 Freeway" (never just "the 42"). There's 95, 295, 195, and 55, and then the Turnpike, the Expressway, and the Parkway.
One thing I don't get is why I-10 in Los Angeles is sometimes referred to as "the 10 Freeway". It's more convenient to say I-10.
Got a better question why does Texas add an "H" to all interstate routes? Why can't I-30 be used instead of IH 30? Why add an extra letter?
Also, did not Ohio used to at one time add an "R" to interstate route designations just as Texas did for their respected interstates?
Personally I would rather use the "the" than call a road IH or IR or do as us New Jerseyans do and just say "ROUTE."
Quote from: golden eagle on May 30, 2015, 01:24:57 PM
One thing I don't get is why I-10 in Los Angeles is sometimes referred to as "the 10 Freeway". It's more convenient to say I-10.
I theorize that it's rooted in the fact that, unlike many parts of the country, all (or nearly all) LA freeways are named, the names actually appear on many guide signs, and people in LA have historically referred to most freeways by their name in speech–"the Hollywood Freeway" and "the Harbor Freeway" and so on.
But in the cases where one route number follows the same named freeway for most or all of its length, such as with I-405, the full title "the San Diego Freeway" would get shortened to "the 405 Freeway" and further to just "the 405" .
Also as people commute further over multiple named freeways, it becomes easier to say "the 101 Freeway" or "the 101" instead of "the Hollywood Freeway to the Ventura Freeway..." .
A lot of newer names haven't really stuck ("the Glenn Anderson Freeway" , "the Artesia Freeway" ), so those went straight to being "the 105" and "the 91" .
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 30, 2015, 11:42:52 AM
Read it out:
"The Interstate 95 is slow..."
"Interstate 95 is slow..."
You are referring to Interstate 95, which is the entire subject. By adding The, you change the subject to just 95, with Interstate being an adjective.
Thus, "I-95 is slow" is the proper way to say the highway designation.
Excellent explanation. It's consistent with the explanation used by the Chicago Manual of Style's editors (http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Abbreviations.html ):
QuoteQ. I hope you can resolve a dispute between me and my editor. After introducing an acronym, e.g., "Bureau of Land Management," to "BLM," I like to drop the "the" in introducing it. For example, I think the least awkward way is to say "BLM is charged with the oversight of . . ." as opposed to "The BLM is . . ." Do you have any rule that covers this issue?
A. Generally, if "the" is part of the name, but not absorbed by the abbreviation, use "the" as if the abbreviation were spelled out:
The NFL comprises thirty-one teams.
NFL games rarely get postponed owing to inclement weather.
In its ninety-two years, the NAACP has been a cornerstone of American civil liberties organizations.
NAACP membership is open to all who can afford it.
Advertisers for AT&T made a splash by incorporating the wah-wah pedal into recent advertisements for high-bandwidth cable.
Do you listen to the BBC?
In other words, use "the" unless the abbreviation is used as an adjective or unless the abbreviation spelled out wouldn't take a definite article (as is the case for American Telephone and Telegraph, though I think the company has more or less dropped the antecedent to its initials).
The BLM's own documentation demonstrates this usage.
This is the same reason why it's erroneous and grating when people refer to Major League Soccer as "the MLS" or Major League Baseball as "the MLB" (as in, "Ben Olsen coaches DC United in the MLS"–although, of course, it'd be correct to say "FIFA grumbles about the MLS season running from March to November"). Of course, there are umpteen federal agencies that annoyingly try to refer to themselves without the leading article (the FDA and the EPA are two that do this). The general follow-up principle I've usually heard is that if the initials are themselves pronounced as a word, you omit the leading "the" even if it would be incorrect to do so if you were pronouncing each letter (thus, "VDOT" for the Virginia Department of Transportation or "NASCAR" for the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing).
This discussion is reminding me of an old joke I saw somewhere:
Teacher: Johnny, please use the word "I" in a sentence.
Johnny: OK. I is– [teacher interrupts]
Teacher: No, no, no. Haven't you been paying attention in class? The correct form is "I am." Only uneducated people say "I is." Try again.
Johnny: I am the ninth letter of the alphabet.
I believe I heard a traffic report refer to "the 696" during my brief visit to Michigan.
Personally, I like using "the" for freeway route numbers, and "Route" for non-freeway route numbers, as long as there is no ambiguity due to number duplication.
Seattleites put "the" in front of a highway number in one specific instance: talking about bridges.
SR 520/Hwy 520/"520" is used, "the 520" is not. "The 520 Bridge" is very common, while "The SR 520 Bridge" isn't used that much; the bridge's official names (Evergreen Point Floating Bridge, Governor Albert D. Rosellini Bridge) are rarely used in common language.
Someone earlier mentioned Western New York and this is very true. People in Buffalo put "the" before route numbers, including surface portions of certain routes. Probably adopted from adjacent Ontario. Do note that surface roads are always referred to by name. People I know from Rochester do not use "the", so it's really limited to the immediate Buffalo area.
Quote from: Bruce on May 30, 2015, 06:40:36 PM
Seattleites put "the" in front of a highway number in one specific instance: talking about bridges.
SR 520/Hwy 520/"520" is used, "the 520" is not. "The 520 Bridge" is very common, while "The SR 520 Bridge" isn't used that much; the bridge's official names (Evergreen Point Floating Bridge, Governor Albert D. Rosellini Bridge) are rarely used in common language.
"The 520 Bridge" makes perfect sense to me. You're not referring to the road as "the 520"; you're referring to the bridge and including the route number to denote which bridge it is. In a sense, you're saying "the bridge" and adding "520" for specificity.
Quote from: roadman65 on May 30, 2015, 02:58:51 PM
Got a better question why does Texas add an "H" to all interstate routes? Why can't I-30 be used instead of IH 30? Why add an extra letter?
All state highway classes have 2 letter designations. IH, US, UA (US Alternate), SH, SL (Loop), SS (Spur), FM, RM, UR (Urban Road, hidden designation for FM/RM roads that are in urban areas and ineligible for state funding for expansion), PR (Park Road), RE (Recreational Road), BI (Interstate Business), BU (US Business), BS (State Business), BF (FM Business).
"New Jersey Turnpike" is the name of a highway. It is always referred to as "The New Jersey Turnpike" or, to be more familiar, "The Turnpike".
Likewise, "Interstate 95" is the name of a highway. Consequently, it should be referred to as "The Interstate 95" or, to be more familiar, "The I-95". Using the article "The" does not suddenly make part of its name an adjective.
Does using the article "The" make "New Jersey" some sort of external adjective when referring to our turnpike? No. It is still an integral part of the highway's name.
Quote from: roadman65 on May 30, 2015, 02:58:51 PM
Also, did not Ohio used to at one time add an "R" to interstate route designations just as Texas did for their respected interstates?
I believe so. I can remeber seeing an old button copy distance sign on northbound I-71 just south of Columbus that referred to the Columbus Bypass as IR 270.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 09:31:53 PM
"New Jersey Turnpike" is the name of a highway. It is always referred to as "The New Jersey Turnpike" or, to be more familiar, "The Turnpike".
Likewise, "Interstate 95" is the name of a highway. Consequently, it should be referred to as "The Interstate 95" or, to be more familiar, "The I-95". Using the article "The" does not suddenly make part of its name an adjective.
Does using the article "The" make "New Jersey" some sort of external adjective when referring to our turnpike? No. It is still an integral part of the highway's name.
by that logic, should we call you the 02 Park Ave?
I've always said "the." But my dad is from the East Coast and he'll usually just say the number, like "take 5 to w/e." I know some people from the Bay Area who are the same way: "Take 680 east to Exit #."
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 11:22:09 AM
Regarding, "I-95 is slow from Occoquan River Bridge [should have a 'the' before the bridge's name] to the Triangle [should not have a 'the' because it's the name of a town].", here's another correction. It should be "The I-95".
:pan:
No it shouldn't.
Quote from: odditude on May 30, 2015, 11:03:53 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 09:31:53 PM
"New Jersey Turnpike" is the name of a highway. It is always referred to as "The New Jersey Turnpike" or, to be more familiar, "The Turnpike".
Likewise, "Interstate 95" is the name of a highway. Consequently, it should be referred to as "The Interstate 95" or, to be more familiar, "The I-95". Using the article "The" does not suddenly make part of its name an adjective.
Does using the article "The" make "New Jersey" some sort of external adjective when referring to our turnpike? No. It is still an integral part of the highway's name.
by that logic, should we call you the 02 Park Ave?
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 11:29:08 AM
Well, if they had said "The Shirley Highway ..." would there have been a problem?
The name "Shirley Highway" is generally not used any longer (I do not think there is even one sign left with the name).
On WTOP Radio traffic reports it is "395 and 95" (southbound) and usually just "95" or "395" for northbound.
Quote from: Bruce on May 30, 2015, 06:40:36 PM
SR 520/Hwy 520/"520" is used, "the 520" is not.
I've heard "the 520" plenty of times. It's not universal by any stretch, but I've heard it. I've heard "the 509", "the 518", "the 101", "the 167", and "the 405" on many occasions as well.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 09:31:53 PM
"New Jersey Turnpike" is the name of a highway. It is always referred to as "The New Jersey Turnpike" or, to be more familiar, "The Turnpike".
Likewise, "Interstate 95" is the name of a highway. Consequently, it should be referred to as "The Interstate 95" or, to be more familiar, "The I-95". Using the article "The" does not suddenly make part of its name an adjective.
Does using the article "The" make "New Jersey" some sort of external adjective when referring to our turnpike? No. It is still an integral part of the highway's name.
Actually, using an article
does turn "New Jersey" into an adjective and "turnpike" into the noun, and the article "the" is used to indicate that you're referring to a turnpike in New Jersey as opposed to one in Pennsylvania or Kansas or something. This is incorrect because New Jersey Turnpike is a proper noun, but this is America and butchering language and culture is how we roll. The only times it would be correct to use "The New Jersey Turnpike" would be if there were multiple roads with that name and you were specifying which one you were talking about, or if New Jersey Turnpike was being used as an adjective and the article is referring to a different noun (e.g. "The New Jersey Turnpike tollbooths").
I'm not sure what the grammatical rule for this would be, but there's certainly some proper nouns which seem to require "the" and some which forbid it.
Let's take a boat ride, shall we?
I took a boat out onto...
the Pacific Ocean
the Mississippi River
the Rio Grande
the Adriatic Sea
the River Kwai
BUT
Lake Michigan
Big Bear Lake
For some reason, Lakes are their own special category (whether the lake name comes first or last), and they don't get the word "the." Unless it's the Great Salt Lake, which brings "the" back - perhaps because its name sounds more like a description than a proper name. It doesn't matter if it's a body of water functionally equivalent to a lake (the Salton Sea is a lake in all but name, but it's a "sea" so it gets prefixed with "the").
I'm not sure exactly what the connection is here, but for the same reason, the construction with roadways parallels this.
To get there, you need to take...
Main Street
7th Avenue
Broadway
Imperial Highway
Pennsylvania Avenue
but..
The Pennsylvania Turnpike
The Long Island Expressway
The Golden State Freeway
The Baltimore Beltway
The George Washington Bridge
Bridges and access-controlled highways simply sound correct with "the" prefixing them. And sure, there's more than one Turnpike in the country, but there's more than one Avenue too.
Ordinary roads are like Lakes, but freeways are more like rivers or oceans. For Angelinos, this extends to using the road number as a name ("The seven-ten") but that's probably a bridge too far for some of you.
Quote from: odditude on May 30, 2015, 11:03:53 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 09:31:53 PM
"New Jersey Turnpike" is the name of a highway. It is always referred to as "The New Jersey Turnpike" or, to be more familiar, "The Turnpike".
Likewise, "Interstate 95" is the name of a highway. Consequently, it should be referred to as "The Interstate 95" or, to be more familiar, "The I-95". Using the article "The" does not suddenly make part of its name an adjective.
Does using the article "The" make "New Jersey" some sort of external adjective when referring to our turnpike? No. It is still an integral part of the highway's name.
by that logic, should we call you the 02 Park Ave?
In the spirit of Hyacinth Bucket, Yes!
Quote from: odditude on May 30, 2015, 11:03:53 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 09:31:53 PM
"New Jersey Turnpike" is the name of a highway. It is always referred to as "The New Jersey Turnpike" or, to be more familiar, "The Turnpike".
Likewise, "Interstate 95" is the name of a highway. Consequently, it should be referred to as "The Interstate 95" or, to be more familiar, "The I-95". Using the article "The" does not suddenly make part of its name an adjective.
Does using the article "The" make "New Jersey" some sort of external adjective when referring to our turnpike? No. It is still an integral part of the highway's name.
by that logic, should we call you the 02 Park Ave?
Then he can join Charles Barkley and live in the Annapolis.
I have a question: how far back does this practice go? Does it predate the Interstate system?
I have always thought of definite article use as naming the highway as a thing, an object. This differs semantically from how people refer to a way, a place. "The new highway," "the new Route 80," and "the 80" have a semantic lineage in my mind.* But "Route 46" would never have had any article because it was never seen as a thing, an item. It was a linear place, a stringing together of preexisting places. There was no "it" in the same sense as this large continuous constructed object of concrete, steel, and asphalt.
* My example is not a great one, since the article is not used in New Jersey, but that's not important to my point.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 31, 2015, 07:03:01 AM
Quote from: odditude on May 30, 2015, 11:03:53 PMby that logic, should we call you the 02 Park Ave?
In the spirit of Hyacinth Bucket, Yes!
I assume you are referring to people calling her 'The Bucket woman', rather than her "The Bouquet Residence" when answering the phone*. In which case, she hated that!
All road numbers in the UK and Ireland get 'the' in front of them. Probably as alphanumeric terms don't really describe it. Interstate 40 or US Route 80 make sense with out the 'the', and then are abbreviated to I-40 and US 80. M62, on the other hand, isn't 'Motorway 62' so needs a definite article.
*which is common among her generation to do when answering the phone, where there was the etiquette that you started the conversation by asking whether they had the right number by describing who's phone it is, or by (as my grandmother does) stating the number (normally very fast), and often then saying who is speaking. I don't really understand it, as well the ringer, not the ringee, is the unknown member of the conversation.
Quote from: jakeroot on May 31, 2015, 01:22:19 AM
Quote from: Bruce on May 30, 2015, 06:40:36 PM
SR 520/Hwy 520/"520" is used, "the 520" is not.
I've heard "the 520" plenty of times. It's not universal by any stretch, but I've heard it. I've heard "the 509", "the 518", "the 101", "the 167", and "the 405" on many occasions as well.
Those are usually used by transplants, at least in my experience.
It's a shame we don't have proper names for our freeways. Some do (SR 167 is unofficially the "Valley Freeway", which is a nice name), but they're never really used by anyone.
Same goes for our interchanges. Plenty of potential names out there, but we don't have a tradition of naming them yet.
Speaking of waterways, rivers and creeks get different treatment.
"The Kentucky River."
But "Station Camp Creek." Not "the Station Camp Creek."
Quote from: english si on May 31, 2015, 03:26:50 PM
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 31, 2015, 07:03:01 AM
Quote from: odditude on May 30, 2015, 11:03:53 PMby that logic, should we call you the 02 Park Ave?
In the spirit of Hyacinth Bucket, Yes!
I assume you are referring to people calling her 'The Bucket woman', rather than her "The Bouquet Residence" when answering the phone*. In which case, she hated that!
All road numbers in the UK and Ireland get 'the' in front of them. Probably as alphanumeric terms don't really describe it. Interstate 40 or US Route 80 make sense with out the 'the', and then are abbreviated to I-40 and US 80. M62, on the other hand, isn't 'Motorway 62' so needs a definite article.
*which is common among her generation to do when answering the phone, where there was the etiquette that you started the conversation by asking whether they had the right number by describing who's phone it is, or by (as my grandmother does) stating the number (normally very fast), and often then saying who is speaking. I don't really understand it, as well the ringer, not the ringee, is the unknown member of the conversation.
Although civil engineers used to happily refer to "M.6". As in "I helped design parts of M.6". The full stop is never used these days.
Quote from: BrynM65 on June 01, 2015, 02:43:37 AM
Although civil engineers used to happily refer to "M.6". As in "I helped design parts of M.6". The full stop is never used these days.
Meaning they pronounced it "em dot six"? Or just in writing, spelt it "M.6"? The first, with a pronounced full stop, seems bizarre to me, but I want to be sure.
Quote from: BrynM65 on June 01, 2015, 02:43:37 AMAlthough civil engineers used to happily refer to "M.6". As in "I helped design parts of M.6". The full stop is never used these days.
True, though arguably they would be using the 'M.x' in the same way that they used it before - as Motor Road project numbers and thus treat the M as a description?
Quote from: jakeroot on June 01, 2015, 02:54:07 AMMeaning they pronounced it "em dot six"? Or just in writing, spelt it "M.6"? The first, with a pronounced full stop, seems bizarre to me, but I want to be sure.
The latter. The dot was replaced with a half-space with the Worboys signage changes (though lasted longer as halfspaces weren't typewriter characters: they now either leave no space, or occasionally up it to a full one).
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2015, 09:25:26 AM
Quote from: 1 on May 30, 2015, 09:06:48 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 30, 2015, 09:01:20 AM
There is one person on this forum who says "the I-95," "the I-87," etc., and purported to "correct" me one time when I did not use the word "the" in a sentence along the lines of, "I-95 is backed up for ten miles from I-495 to Woodbridge." This person claimed it should have been "The I-95 is backed up ... from the I-495 to Woodbridge." I believe that poster lives somewhere in New York State.
Ontario uses it, and New York borders Ontario (across rivers with several toll bridges). Depending on where exactly he lives, it might be normal to use it there.
But does Ontario use it before another sort of route designator? That was what I was noting–instead of the style "the 401" that is used in Ontario or parts of California, this poster would say "the I-95." So instead of "take the 95 to the 87," which already sounds wrong to me, this poster would say "take the I-95 to the I-87." I don't understand that to be a common style in Ontario or anywhere.
Don't really hear it in Ontario outside of the 400-series and the 35/115 and 115 highways. Everything else usually gets "Highway" in front of it, and I can't say I've heard too many use it when referring to routes in other jurisdictions.
If the person in question is who I think it is, I don't think their first language is English (as they hail from a Francophone heavy part of the province) and it may just be a habit of theirs to refer to routes with "the" article.
Quote from: stridentweasel on May 30, 2015, 05:29:26 PM
I believe I heard a traffic report refer to "the 696" during my brief visit to Michigan.
Must've been someone from Ontario. It's either "I-696", or just "696", or sometimes, "the Reuther".
Never heard "the" in front of a number with the exception of Brits (the M1), Ontarioans (the 401), or Southern Californians (the 405). Now, "the" is used in front of the name here in Chicagoland (the Ryan, the Stevie, the Kennedy, the Tri-State, the Ike).
A bunch of us have already said this, but I'll repost to summarize. As a state, New York is all over the place when it comes to this and other things pertaining to highways:
*The Thruway is always "the Thruway", except in Western New York where it is "the 90".
*Buffalo is "the" for all remotely limited-access roads, just like Southern California and Ontario. I'll add that locals (and even many street name blades) almost always eliminate the "road"/"street"/etc. when talking about a highway.
*Downstate, numbers are rarely used. When they are used, the number never has "the", while names are always "the" (i.e. the Northern State, the Clearview, the Cross Westchester, etc.). In a reversal of Buffalo, the street "class" is just about always said. One major exception to this is the Lex (Lexington Avenue), which is always "the Lex" in conversation.
*In many parts of the state, freeways referred to only by name are rare or nonexistent and no "the" comes before a number. The class of highway may or may not be mentioned, depending on the area and the highway. The former is more common near New England and the latter is prevalent closer to Buffalo.
Quote from: briantroutman on May 30, 2015, 03:09:06 PM
Quote from: golden eagle on May 30, 2015, 01:24:57 PM
One thing I don't get is why I-10 in Los Angeles is sometimes referred to as "the 10 Freeway". It's more convenient to say I-10.
I theorize that it's rooted in the fact that, unlike many parts of the country, all (or nearly all) LA freeways are named, the names actually appear on many guide signs, and people in LA have historically referred to most freeways by their name in speech–"the Hollywood Freeway" and "the Harbor Freeway" and so on.
But in the cases where one route number follows the same named freeway for most or all of its length, such as with I-405, the full title "the San Diego Freeway" would get shortened to "the 405 Freeway" and further to just "the 405" .
Also as people commute further over multiple named freeways, it becomes easier to say "the 101 Freeway" or "the 101" instead of "the Hollywood Freeway to the Ventura Freeway..." .
A lot of newer names haven't really stuck ("the Glenn Anderson Freeway" , "the Artesia Freeway" ), so those went straight to being "the 105" and "the 91" .
Most of the major metropolitan areas in the country have names freeways. Depending on the age though, the name may or may not be likely to be used.
Many of the LA area freeways were built prior to the Interstate numbers being assigned or the newer CA state route designations being assigned. Therefore, it was the "Hollywood Freeway," "The Pasadena Freeway," "The Harbor Freeway," etc. I thought about this subject after being in California for work a couple of months ago. There's some speculation that the massive quantity of freeways that were built as well as some of the odd names led to the shift to using "The XXX Freeway" instead of the name, specifically the 605 Freeway. The 605 Freeway is technically the San Gabriel River Freeway. I guess that's a mouth full for many residents, so some speculate this was the turning point in the dialect to use "The XXX Freeway." Radio and TV traffic reporters couldn't spend time using every freeway name and so it was shortened to the number. Another interesting anecdote I read was that it made describing directions sound better. I actually prefer this method to some of the others I've seen around the country.
Here in Tampa, my observation is that people typically say:
- I-275 -- "275" or "The Interstate." The only time I hear or read "I-275" is on the TV news or in the paper.
- I-4 -- "I-4." I don't usually ever here anyone say just "4."
****My take here is that I-4 is short, so the "I" stays, while I-275 is longer and more syllables, so the "I" gets dropped.
- SR 589 Veterans Expressway -- This is always "The Veterans" or "The Vets." I never hear anyone say SR 589 or 589.
- SR 618 Selmon Expressway -- By locals, this is almost always "The Crosstown," which was the former name of the expressway. I've never head anyone use SR 618 or 618.
- US 301 is just "301"
- US 41 is just "41"
- However, in Pinellas County US-19 is regularly called US-19 although "19" is also used.
- People regularly seem to never use "Blvd., St., Ave." etc. when saying the name. Dale Mabry Highway is just "Dale Mabry," Kennedy Blvd. is just "Kennedy," MacDill Avenue is just "MacDill," etc. This is different from when I lived in Tallahassee, where people would say Thomasville Road, Tennessee Street, etc.
-- Some people will refer to any freeway as an interstate, which personally really bugs me. In fact the FDOT website for the area is called mytbi.com, for My Tampa Bay Interstates, which includes non-interstates like SR 60.
-- The term "freeway" causes many people here confusion. I lived in Texas and have traveled, so I still regularly use the term. Despite the prevalent use of the term freeway in other jurisdictions and in movies, some people act like they don't know what one is.
Quote from: democraticnole on June 04, 2015, 05:23:07 PM
Here in Tampa, my observation is that people typically say:
- US 41 is just "401"
Any reason why they say 401 and not 41?
Quote from: Bruce on May 31, 2015, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 31, 2015, 01:22:19 AM
Quote from: Bruce on May 30, 2015, 06:40:36 PM
SR 520/Hwy 520/"520" is used, "the 520" is not.
I've heard "the 520" plenty of times. It's not universal by any stretch, but I've heard it. I've heard "the 509", "the 518", "the 101", "the 167", and "the 405" on many occasions as well.
Those are usually used by transplants, at least in my experience.
It's a shame we don't have proper names for our freeways. Some do (SR 167 is unofficially the "Valley Freeway", which is a nice name), but they're never really used by anyone.
Same goes for our interchanges. Plenty of potential names out there, but we don't have a tradition of naming them yet.
Concur that "the" is typically a transplant thing... though there are a great many transplants, perhaps they've infected the locals now.
Regarding the Valley Freeway, it's at least semi-official -- WSDOT uses it in documentation a lot. (Not most of the time, but a lot.) And now that I live in the eponymous valley, I think it's used by locals a lot more than you think it is. But you're right, I can't think of a single other named freeway in the state. (I think at one point the southern portion of 405 was called the Renton Freeway, but that's certainly not a name that's used currently at all.)
Quote from: Kacie Jane on June 04, 2015, 05:53:52 PM
Quote from: Bruce on May 31, 2015, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 31, 2015, 01:22:19 AM
Quote from: Bruce on May 30, 2015, 06:40:36 PM
SR 520/Hwy 520/"520" is used, "the 520" is not.
I've heard "the 520" plenty of times. It's not universal by any stretch, but I've heard it. I've heard "the 509", "the 518", "the 101", "the 167", and "the 405" on many occasions as well.
Those are usually used by transplants, at least in my experience.
It's a shame we don't have proper names for our freeways. Some do (SR 167 is unofficially the "Valley Freeway", which is a nice name), but they're never really used by anyone.
Same goes for our interchanges. Plenty of potential names out there, but we don't have a tradition of naming them yet.
Concur that "the" is typically a transplant thing... though there are a great many transplants, perhaps they've infected the locals now.
Regarding the Valley Freeway, it's at least semi-official -- WSDOT uses it in documentation a lot. (Not most of the time, but a lot.) And now that I live in the eponymous valley, I think it's used by locals a lot more than you think it is. But you're right, I can't think of a single other named freeway in the state. (I think at one point the southern portion of 405 was called the Renton Freeway, but that's certainly not a name that's used currently at all.)
Is "Boeing Freeway" official?
Quote from: 1 on June 04, 2015, 05:53:35 PM
Quote from: democraticnole on June 04, 2015, 05:23:07 PM
Here in Tampa, my observation is that people typically say:
- US 41 is just "401"
Any reason why they say 401 and not 41?
Sorry. That was a typo. Should say 41.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 04, 2015, 06:31:21 PM
Is "Boeing Freeway" official?
Oops, probably. (To be fair, I didn't say there weren't any named freeways, just that I couldn't think of them.)
Quote from: Kacie Jane on June 04, 2015, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 04, 2015, 06:31:21 PM
Is "Boeing Freeway" official?
Oops, probably. (To be fair, I didn't say there weren't any named freeways, just that I couldn't think of them.)
Nahh, most people here in the South Sound aren't familiar with the Boeing Freeway anyways. Can't blame you for not remembering. :)
OT: We should start coming up with our own names. I remember a year or two ago when the state legislature considered allowing companies to buy naming rights to road infrastructure (http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1051.pdf). That seems like a horrible idea, but we could have some funny names: Amazon Freeway, Bungie Freeway, Valve Freeway, Expedia Freeway, Metropolitan Grill Freeway, Red Robin Freeway, etc.
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on May 30, 2015, 09:31:53 PM
"New Jersey Turnpike" is the name of a highway. It is always referred to as "The New Jersey Turnpike" or, to be more familiar, "The Turnpike".
Likewise, "Interstate 95" is the name of a highway. Consequently, it should be referred to as "The Interstate 95" or, to be more familiar, "The I-95". Using the article "The" does not suddenly make part of its name an adjective.
Does using the article "The" make "New Jersey" some sort of external adjective when referring to our turnpike? No. It is still an integral part of the highway's name.
I disagree. I argue that "Interstate" is an adjective of an understood noun, "route" or "highway." Our language is full of phrases with unstated, understood words (the subject of the grammatically correct sentence "Get out!" for example is "you," understood). That it is capitalized is irrelevant; this is only to distinguish this adjective as being the proper name of a highway system that is distinct from other interstate roads.
That "the New Jersey Turnpike" is given a definite article is also irrelevant to Interstates because there is no basis for the idea that all road names are styled the same, unless you're going to say "the Broadway." In Boston, for example, we have a highway called "Storrow Drive," NEVER "the Storrow Drive" unless you want to sound like a rube. But we still say "the Southeast Expressway."
The mistake, in other words, is assuming there is a rule of article use to apply to all items in the category "road names." As in a lot of English, there is no rule here.
Quote from: democraticnole on June 04, 2015, 06:53:43 PM
Quote from: 1 on June 04, 2015, 05:53:35 PM
Quote from: democraticnole on June 04, 2015, 05:23:07 PM
Here in Tampa, my observation is that people typically say:
- US 41 is just "401"
Any reason why they say 401 and not 41?
Sorry. That was a typo. Should say 41.
Lot of Canadians vacationing, eh?
What is on the shield of Interstate highways?
Quote from: 02 Park Ave on June 04, 2015, 10:10:48 PM
What is on the shield of Interstate highways?
Colors, numbers, words.
New Orleans uses the "the" pattern for several notable bridges ("the Huey" (Huey P. Long Bridge), "the Causeway", "the Twin Spans", etc.) But not for numbered highways. Though, oddly (and this may be a Lafayette/Acadiana thing), interstates get "I-", state highways get "LA" but US highways get "Highway". (For example, "I-10", "I-12", "LA 182" but "Highway 90".)
Here in New York, if you use "the" before a number, it means you're talking about a subway line, not a highway. For example, if you say "the 1 and 9," it means a subway line that used to exist on the West Side of Manhattan. If you say just "1 and 9," it means US 1/US 9 across the Hudson River in New Jersey.
Well in the San Francisco area we call our Freeways "Highway then Number"
As in Highway 880, Highway 280, Highway 680 all are interstates
Highway 24, Highway 17 CA- routes
Highway 101 US routes
This has to be when Eastshore Freeway I-80 was then known as US-40 Eastshore Highway.
But in Sacramento area you must state designation before the number as in Business 80, I-80, US-50 and CA-99 to make sure you have the right route.
Note Solano County residents will use both Sacramento way and Bay Area way of calling route numbers
We say both Highway 80 and I-80 in the Same sentence to mean the same freeway.
In Western New York, it's "Route 5," "Route 20, (or 5 and 20 for the duplex)" "the 90," "the 33," "the Scajaquada," "the 290," "the 190," "the 990," "the 219," etc.
Quote from: Buffaboy on October 15, 2016, 11:04:20 AM
In Western New York, it's "Route 5," "Route 20, (or 5 and 20 for the duplex)" "the 90," "the 33," "the Scajaquada," "the 290," "the 190," "the 990," "the 219," etc.
Ugh. I didn't know that Californian tendency was duplicated in western NY. Must be the contaminants in the soil from all that failed industry affecting people's heads out there.
Quote from: Rothman on October 15, 2016, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on October 15, 2016, 11:04:20 AM
In Western New York, it's "Route 5," "Route 20, (or 5 and 20 for the duplex)" "the 90," "the 33," "the Scajaquada," "the 290," "the 190," "the 990," "the 219," etc.
Ugh. I didn't know that Californian tendency was duplicated in western NY. Must be the contaminants in the soil from all that failed industry affecting people's heads out there.
Yep. Annoyed the hell out of me when I lived there.
I call U.S. Route 202 between West Chester and King of Prussia, Pennsylvania "the 202".
Quote from: cl94 on October 15, 2016, 01:14:57 PM
Quote from: Rothman on October 15, 2016, 11:30:27 AM
Quote from: Buffaboy on October 15, 2016, 11:04:20 AM
In Western New York, it's "Route 5," "Route 20, (or 5 and 20 for the duplex)" "the 90," "the 33," "the Scajaquada," "the 290," "the 190," "the 990," "the 219," etc.
Ugh. I didn't know that Californian tendency was duplicated in western NY. Must be the contaminants in the soil from all that failed industry affecting people's heads out there.
Yep. Annoyed the hell out of me when I lived there.
It's an extension of Ontario with "the 401", etc.
Quote from: epzik8 on October 15, 2016, 06:10:14 PM
I call U.S. Route 202 between West Chester and King of Prussia, Pennsylvania "the 202".
Congratulations.
I don't see the issue with using "the". Freeways are things. When you take "the 57 freeway", you're describing the road itself, not the route ("I used this stretch of pavement").
Quote from: jakeroot on October 16, 2016, 12:20:37 AM
I don't see the issue with using "the". Freeways are things. When you take "the 57 freeway", you're describing the road itself, not the route ("I used this stretch of pavement").
Congratulations. :D
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2016, 12:27:40 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 16, 2016, 12:20:37 AM
I don't see the issue with using "the". Freeways are things. When you take "the 57 freeway", you're describing the road itself, not the route ("I used this stretch of pavement").
Congratulations.
Sarcasm...how original.
Quote from: jakeroot on October 16, 2016, 12:29:06 AM
Quote from: Rothman on October 16, 2016, 12:27:40 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on October 16, 2016, 12:20:37 AM
I don't see the issue with using "the". Freeways are things. When you take "the 57 freeway", you're describing the road itself, not the route ("I used this stretch of pavement").
Congratulations.
Sarcasm...how original.
Really? I'm a trailblazer!
Quote from: Kacie Jane on June 04, 2015, 07:04:06 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 04, 2015, 06:31:21 PM
Is "Boeing Freeway" official?
Oops, probably. (To be fair, I didn't say there weren't any named freeways, just that I couldn't think of them.)
WA 14: Lewis and Clark Freeway, Evergreen Highway
WA 432: Tennant Way (dubious)
Quote from: epzik8 on October 15, 2016, 06:10:14 PM
I call U.S. Route 202 between West Chester and King of Prussia, Pennsylvania "the 202".
I don't get it. Did you just pick a road at random, or do you like to separate yourself from locals up here?
When a road is referred to by its name (in my parts "The JFX" [I-83, Jones Falls Expressway; "The Baltimore Harbor Tunnel" [I-895]; "The Southeast/Southwest Freeway" [I-395 and I-695], "The Dulles Toll Road" [VA-267]; "The ICC" [MD-200]; "The Baltimore-Washington Parkway" [MD-295 or "secret" MD-295]; "The George Washington Parkway;" "The Outer Loop" or "The Inner Loop" [of the Capital Beltway, I-495 and partly I-95 - or Baltimore Beltway, I-695] or "The John Hanson Highway" [U.S. 50; U.S. 301 and "secret" I-595 (never used)], "the" is used.
With routes that are known only by a number (I-66; I-95 north and south of the Capital Beltway; I-395 in Virginia; I-270 and others), "the" is not used.
Nobody ever talks about "The 95 Freeway," as it might have been called if it were in Southern California, but I have heard it called that on television shows and movies that were presumably written and produced in California.
I've heard news reporters in Buffalo put "the" in front of 87 or 95.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 17, 2016, 12:57:01 PM
....
Nobody ever talks about "The 95 Freeway," as it might have been called if it were in Southern California, but I have heard it called that on television shows and movies that were presumably written and produced in California.
In general, I seldom hear people from this part of the country use the word "freeway" at all unless it's part of an often-used road name–and of course there's the oddity of the traffic reporters always calling the Southeast—Southwest Freeway simply "the Freeway" ("oddity" because the Whitehurst Freeway is nearby). I say "often-used road name" because I never hear anyone refer to I-295 as the Anacostia Freeway.
Quote from: Bruce on May 31, 2015, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 31, 2015, 01:22:19 AM
Quote from: Bruce on May 30, 2015, 06:40:36 PM
SR 520/Hwy 520/"520" is used, "the 520" is not.
I've heard "the 520" plenty of times. It's not universal by any stretch, but I've heard it. I've heard "the 509", "the 518", "the 101", "the 167", and "the 405" on many occasions as well.
Those are usually used by transplants, at least in my experience.
It's a shame we don't have proper names for our freeways. Some do (SR 167 is unofficially the "Valley Freeway", which is a nice name), but they're never really used by anyone.
Same goes for our interchanges. Plenty of potential names out there, but we don't have a tradition of naming them yet.
It cracks me up that the nav system in my car labels I-90 the "Mountains to Sound Greenway". I can't imagine anyone actually ever calling it that.
Quote from: duaneu2 on October 19, 2016, 10:35:35 PM
Quote from: Bruce on May 31, 2015, 03:28:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on May 31, 2015, 01:22:19 AM
Quote from: Bruce on May 30, 2015, 06:40:36 PM
SR 520/Hwy 520/"520" is used, "the 520" is not.
I've heard "the 520" plenty of times. It's not universal by any stretch, but I've heard it. I've heard "the 509", "the 518", "the 101", "the 167", and "the 405" on many occasions as well.
Those are usually used by transplants, at least in my experience.
It's a shame we don't have proper names for our freeways. Some do (SR 167 is unofficially the "Valley Freeway", which is a nice name), but they're never really used by anyone.
Same goes for our interchanges. Plenty of potential names out there, but we don't have a tradition of naming them yet.
It cracks me up that the nav system in my car labels I-90 the "Mountains to Sound Greenway". I can't imagine anyone actually ever calling it that.
Waze sometimes gives things official/ceremonial names even if they are never posted or used. I'll typically change them to what is posted if I have clearance to edit the segment.
Quote from: dgolub on October 13, 2016, 07:24:47 PM
Here in New York, if you use "the" before a number, it means you're talking about a subway line, not a highway. For example, if you say "the 1 and 9," it means a subway line that used to exist on the West Side of Manhattan. If you say just "1 and 9," it means US 1/US 9 across the Hudson River in New Jersey.
You get up every morning
From your alarm clock's warning
Take the 8:15 into the city
Sitting here in the Philadelphia area, if somebody said The [number], my first guess would be a bus number. If there isn't one with that number, I might think it's the time your train leaves your station. And nobody says freeway.
The only exception to both of these rules is "The 42 Freeway". I once analyzed this as "the freeway portion of Route 42", but given that there are other partial freeways that don't get this (US 130, US 30, NJ 18), I don't think that's right. It's just the "name" of the road. Though wasn't I-295 known as "the 130 freeway" while under construction?
The only other nuance in the Philly area is...the US 30 freeway in Chester County will be called "The 30 Bypass" on traffic reports...as opposed to the rest of "Route 30" on the Main Line - the parts of US 30 that run through eastern Chester Co, Montgomery Co, and Delaware Co.
Anyone else call Maryland/Delaware Route 404 "the 404"? It's the Bay Bridge-Rehoboth corridor so.
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike Californians?
Quote from: epzik8 on November 04, 2016, 07:14:41 PM
Anyone else call Maryland/Delaware Route 404 "the 404"? It's the Bay Bridge-Rehoboth corridor so.
Always heard it referred to as "404" or sometimes "Route 404," but
never "the 404."
Quote from: 1995hoo on October 17, 2016, 02:46:54 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on October 17, 2016, 12:57:01 PM
....
Nobody ever talks about "The 95 Freeway," as it might have been called if it were in Southern California, but I have heard it called that on television shows and movies that were presumably written and produced in California.
In general, I seldom hear people from this part of the country use the word "freeway" at all unless it's part of an often-used road name–and of course there's the oddity of the traffic reporters always calling the Southeast—Southwest Freeway simply "the Freeway" ("oddity" because the Whitehurst Freeway is nearby). I say "often-used road name" because I never hear anyone refer to I-295 as the Anacostia Freeway.
That is correct. "Freeway" on D.C.-area traffic reports means the S.E./S.W. Freeway.
Regarding the Whitehurst Freeway, it is not really a functional class freeway but just a viaduct, and it it sometimes just called "The Whitehurst" (but
never referred to by its route number, U.S. 29, since it is poorly signed, and northbound U.S. 29 is eastbound on the Whitehurst and southbound U.S. 29 is westbound on the Whitehurst).
Quote from: jakeroot on November 05, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike southern Californians?
Fixed that for you. :bigass:
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 07, 2016, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 05, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike southern Californians?
Fixed that for you.
Is that true though? I've been hearing "the" all up and down the west coast for several years. Obviously it's more prevalent in southern California, but it's not like "the" doesn't exist in the Bay Area.
Besides, I doubt most people outside of those along the west coast actually understand "the" as being a SoCal "invention". It's just a "California thing".
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2016, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 07, 2016, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 05, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike southern Californians?
Fixed that for you.
Is that true though? I've been hearing "the" all up and down the west coast for several years. Obviously it's more prevalent in southern California, but it's not like "the" doesn't exist in the Bay Area.
For the most part northern Californians like myself consider using "the" before a route number to be blasphemous and will ridicule those that refer to our freeways as "The 80" or "The 101". There have been numerous columns written by Gary Richards of the San Jose Mercury News about the "The" phenomenon and how much it's reviled by native northern Californians as many of us don't want to have anything to do with our "neighbors to the south."
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 08, 2016, 03:58:27 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2016, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 07, 2016, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 05, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike southern Californians?
Fixed that for you.
Is that true though? I've been hearing "the" all up and down the west coast for several years. Obviously it's more prevalent in southern California, but it's not like "the" doesn't exist in the Bay Area.
For the most part northern Californians like myself consider using "the" before a route number to be blasphemous and will ridicule those that refer to our freeways as "The 80" or "The 101". There have been numerous columns written by Gary Richards of the San Jose Mercury News about the "The" phenomenon and how much it's reviled by native northern Californians as many of us don't want to have anything to do with our "neighbors to the south."
FWIW, California's south/north divide on the use/non-use of "the" also extends into Nevada. "The X" has been prevalent in the Vegas area for as long as I can remember, but is rarely used in Reno area. We just don't get as upset about it in Nevada as they apparently do in NorCal...
Quote from: roadfro on November 12, 2016, 02:31:07 AM
FWIW, California's south/north divide on the use/non-use of "the" also extends into Nevada. "The X" has been prevalent in the Vegas area for as long as I can remember, but is rarely used in Reno area. We just don't get as upset about it in Nevada as they apparently do in NorCal...
I believe that "the" is also acceptable use in San Diego County (such as "the 8;" "the 805;" "the 94;" "the 163;" "the 5;" and "the 15").
There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Here, "the" is NEVER used in front of a number, but that's about the only thing that's certain. When using names, freeways and tollways tend to get it (the Ryan, the Stevenson, the Kennedy, etc.) but arterials don't (Halsted, Harlem, LaGrange, etc.). Lake Michigan doesn't, but the Chicago River does.
It's even hit or miss with Spanish names. Los Angeles (the Angels) always includes Los, while Las Vegas (the Meadows) frequently has the Las omitted. Both Los & Las mean "the," so why is one ALWAYS included while the other often isn't? It doesn't make any logical sense.
Quote from: Super Mateo on November 13, 2016, 09:31:37 AM
There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. Here, "the" is NEVER used in front of a number, but that's about the only thing that's certain. When using names, freeways and tollways tend to get it (the Ryan, the Stevenson, the Kennedy, etc.) but arterials don't (Halsted, Harlem, LaGrange, etc.). Lake Michigan doesn't, but the Chicago River does.
It's even hit or miss with Spanish names. Los Angeles (the Angels) always includes Los, while Las Vegas (the Meadows) frequently has the Las omitted. Both Los & Las mean "the," so why is one ALWAYS included while the other often isn't? It doesn't make any logical sense.
Like New Jersey... Lots of people just say Jersey... But I have never heard York or Hampshire...
My nephew went to high school in San Diego... He says "the 10" "the 95" here in Jacksonville.. In Orlando the toll roads are "the 408" "the 417" on traffic reports.. But it always I-4
LGMS428
Quote from: jwolfer on November 13, 2016, 02:22:34 PM
My nephew went to high school in San Diego... He says "the 10" "the 95" here in Jacksonville.. In Orlando the toll roads are "the 408" "the 417" on traffic reports.. But it always I-4
The TCA Toll Roads in Orange County [California] (CA-241, CA-261, CA-133 and (most of) CA-73) seem to be treated the same way as other Southern California freeways when it comes to "the," with no mention of their status as tolled freeways.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2016, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 07, 2016, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 05, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike southern Californians?
Fixed that for you.
Is that true though? I've been hearing "the" all up and down the west coast for several years. Obviously it's more prevalent in southern California, but it's not like "the" doesn't exist in the Bay Area.
Besides, I doubt most people outside of those along the west coast actually understand "the" as being a SoCal "invention". It's just a "California thing".
Huh? I'm from Northern California we have two types of tendencies of naming freeways its "On Highway 880" or "On 880 Nimitz Freeway" or "On Highway 80 Eastshore freeway" Or "On 80"
Some of this was a carry over when I-80 was then called US-40 Eastshore Highway.
In Sacramento you have to call a freeway by its designation like I-5, Business-80, I-80, US-50, Highway 50, Ca-99, CA-113 and I-505 or Highway 505.
Note Solano county uses both the Sacramento way of Calling freeways and Bay Area way of Calling freeways due to being a commuter county for both Sacramento and Bay Area.
Quote from: bing101 on November 14, 2016, 12:13:18 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2016, 06:12:45 PM
I've been hearing "the" all up and down the west coast for several years. Obviously it's more prevalent in southern California, but it's not like "the" doesn't exist in the Bay Area.
Besides, I doubt most people outside of those along the west coast actually understand "the" as being a SoCal "invention". It's just a "California thing".
Huh? I'm from Northern California we have two types of tendencies of naming freeways its "On Highway 880" or "On 880 Nimitz Freeway" or "On Highway 80 Eastshore freeway" Or "On 80"
Some of this was a carry over when I-80 was then called US-40 Eastshore Highway.
In Sacramento you have to call a freeway by its designation like I-5, Business-80, I-80, US-50, Highway 50, Ca-99, CA-113 and I-505 or Highway 505.
Note Solano county uses both the Sacramento way of Calling freeways and Bay Area way of Calling freeways due to being a commuter county for both Sacramento and Bay Area.
You've never heard anyone say "The 80" or "the 5"? I live in the farthest part of the west coast from SoCal -- Seattle -- yet I've heard this terminology.
I never said it was common. All I said was that I was hearing it. Not commonly, but I've been hearing it.
FWIW, the Sacramento method is unusual, at least by Seattle standards. Most freeways are just "nn" (i.e. 5, 405, 520, 18). You hear "the nn" from time to time. Not commonly. But you hear it.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 05, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike Californians?
No, not at all! I'm a CT native and have lived in New England my entire life (includes 2 stints in Maine). NOBODY uses
the here when giving directions or in advertising. It's almost as bad when somebody reads off the year as TWO THOUSAND
AND SIXTEEN.
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 14, 2016, 05:35:50 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 05, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike Californians?
No, not at all! I'm a CT native and have lived in New England my entire life (includes 2 stints in Maine). NOBODY uses the here when giving directions or in advertising. It's almost as bad when somebody reads off the year as TWO THOUSAND AND SIXTEEN.
Well that's fine, but you seem to imply a deep hatred for "the xx". I understand that its not common to use "the" in Connecticut, but that doesn't mean you have to hate it. ;-)
Quote from: jakeroot on November 14, 2016, 01:28:33 AM
Quote from: bing101 on November 14, 2016, 12:13:18 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2016, 06:12:45 PM
I've been hearing "the" all up and down the west coast for several years. Obviously it's more prevalent in southern California, but it's not like "the" doesn't exist in the Bay Area.
Besides, I doubt most people outside of those along the west coast actually understand "the" as being a SoCal "invention". It's just a "California thing".
Huh? I'm from Northern California we have two types of tendencies of naming freeways its "On Highway 880" or "On 880 Nimitz Freeway" or "On Highway 80 Eastshore freeway" Or "On 80"
Some of this was a carry over when I-80 was then called US-40 Eastshore Highway.
In Sacramento you have to call a freeway by its designation like I-5, Business-80, I-80, US-50, Highway 50, Ca-99, CA-113 and I-505 or Highway 505.
Note Solano county uses both the Sacramento way of Calling freeways and Bay Area way of Calling freeways due to being a commuter county for both Sacramento and Bay Area.
You've never heard anyone say "The 80" or "the 5"? I live in the farthest part of the west coast from SoCal -- Seattle -- yet I've heard this terminology.
I never said it was common. All I said was that I was hearing it. Not commonly, but I've been hearing it.
FWIW, the Sacramento method is unusual, at least by Seattle standards. Most freeways are just "nn" (i.e. 5, 405, 520, 18). You hear "the nn" from time to time. Not commonly. But you hear it.
The Reason is that in Sacramento we say Designations first because of the fact that there are two highways named 80 like I-80 and Business-80 aka CA51.
I know I have touched on this in another thread on this topic somewhere (it may not have been on this forum though) that here in eastern NC its spoken as Highway 70, Highway 43 (in other words no differentiation between US or NC) but it's always I-95, I-40 (etc) when referring to the Interstate Highways.
When I hear "The 5" on a TV show, I instantly think southern California, and it doesn't bother for me. It does cause me to snicker, a little, when I see it typed out that way, though. I am not sure why, probably because in the back of my mind I think it will cause a thread like this one.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 07, 2016, 06:12:45 PM
Quote from: myosh_tino on November 07, 2016, 04:56:58 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 05, 2016, 01:33:02 AM
Quote from: KEVIN_224 on November 04, 2016, 09:56:30 PM
All I'd need is to hear somebody in Massachusetts give directions and say "You take THE 128 to the..." and I'd die!
NO! NO! NO! :angry:
Do you dislike southern Californians?
Fixed that for you.
Is that true though? I've been hearing "the" all up and down the west coast for several years. Obviously it's more prevalent in southern California, but it's not like "the" doesn't exist in the Bay Area.
Besides, I doubt most people outside of those along the west coast actually understand "the" as being a SoCal "invention". It's just a "California thing".
It started as a SoCal thing and is still mostly a SoCal thing. I didn't hear it hardly at all growing up in NoCal.
It's probably because SoCal used to use freeway names a whole lot more both in speech and on the BGSs. "The Santa Ana Freeway" got abbreviated to "The Santa Ana" and when the names were removed from the BGSs that changed to "The 5".
The not-for-profit "Regional Plan Association" lists 11 mega-regions in the US. Northern California is one of them, and it includes the Bay Area and Sacramento.
This, beside the fact that you're talking complete shit anyway.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/MapofEmergingUSMegaregions.png)
Quote from: jakeroot on November 18, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/MapofEmergingUSMegaregions.png)
Look carefully at the image and you'll see that I-27 has been extended.
Quote from: jakeroot on November 18, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/MapofEmergingUSMegaregions.png)
Where does this map come from?
Quote from: jbnv on November 20, 2016, 12:03:41 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 18, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/MapofEmergingUSMegaregions.png
Where does this map come from?
(Here (https://goo.gl/16dWPL)) and (here (https://goo.gl/F1j9Xy))
Quote from: jakeroot on November 20, 2016, 07:32:15 PM
Quote from: jbnv on November 20, 2016, 12:03:41 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on November 18, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/MapofEmergingUSMegaregions.png
Where does this map come from?
(Here (https://goo.gl/16dWPL)) and (here (https://goo.gl/F1j9Xy))
I have created a topic (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=19218.0) for further discussion about this.
Getting back on topic... I have now taken to calling Pennsylvania Route 309, a Philadelphia-Allentown connector, "The 309".
Quote from: epzik8 on November 23, 2016, 11:24:07 AM
Getting back on topic... I have now taken to calling Pennsylvania Route 309, a Philadelphia-Allentown connector, "The 309".
You are probably the first, and hopefully the only to do so.
Quote from: bing101 on November 25, 2016, 01:14:08 PM
Wait Jefferson territory was always interned to be north of the Sacramento area but wait Placer, Yuba, Sutter and El Dorado area in this case are included in the Jefferson proposal and part of the "North California" Proposal.
http://www.soj51.net/ (http://www.soj51.net/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state))
But wait some of these places are still influenced by the culture of Bay Area and Sacramento in terms of naming highways.
But Ecotopia was portrayed as including the San Francisco Bay Area and south to the Tehachapis.
Citylab.com: Why West Coast Drivers Add 'The' to Their Freeway Numbers - It's not an affectation of the car-obsessed–it's history. (http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/11/why-west-coast-drivers-add-the-to-their-freeway-numbers/415527/)
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 18, 2016, 07:40:01 PM
Citylab.com: Why West Coast Drivers Add 'The' to Their Freeway Numbers - It's not an affectation of the car-obsessed–it's history. (http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/11/why-west-coast-drivers-add-the-to-their-freeway-numbers/415527/)
Have never heard Utahns refer to I-15 as "The 15." Then again, has Saint George picked up the practice?
Quote from: Rothman on December 19, 2016, 09:21:08 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 18, 2016, 07:40:01 PM
Citylab.com: Why West Coast Drivers Add 'The' to Their Freeway Numbers - It's not an affectation of the car-obsessed–it's history. (http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/11/why-west-coast-drivers-add-the-to-their-freeway-numbers/415527/)
Have never heard Utahns refer to I-15 as "The 15." Then again, has Saint George picked up the practice?
I have never listened to traffic reports in Utah, and the only freeway in the Beehive State that I have driven in its entirety is I-70, which is mostly in the middle of nowhere (and thus not in need of traffic reports because volumes are so low).
Quote from: cpzilliacus on December 18, 2016, 07:40:01 PM
Citylab.com: Why West Coast Drivers Add 'The' to Their Freeway Numbers - It's not an affectation of the car-obsessed–it's history. (http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/11/why-west-coast-drivers-add-the-to-their-freeway-numbers/415527/)
I've heard the rationale before, but haven't we had a similar history on the east coast? Take Philadelphia. The Schuylkill Expressway has existed since 1952 and is still call that today. The Vine Expressway has existed since 1960 and was already an interstate when it opened. It is still called that today. Even I-476 which was never given an official name is called "The Blue Route". Yet, nobody says "The 95" or for nearby freeways in, say, NJ which never had publicly used names, "The 295" or "The 676" ("The 42 Freeway" is an exception in this regard). Similarly, New York names almost all their interstates, but nobody from New York appends "the" to the ones in nearby NJ or CT.