A few days ago, I was riding my bike in moderate traffic on a residential street. The street was posted at 25 MPH, and the prevailing rate of traffic was about 20. Since the street had a slight decline in my direction of travel, I could easily maintain the prevailing speed (just as I would have in my car), and in fact I had to ease off slightly so as to leave the tiniest cushion of space between myself and the car ahead.
Then with a loud roar of engine, a motorist in an SUV veered off into the left lane and back to the right directly in front of me–basically filling that single car-length space that had separated my bike from the car in front. I watched as the SUV's brake lights remained illuminated for the remainder of the slog through this neighborhood. We stopped at the same stop signs together, waited at the same traffic signal together–only at the end of the street where we turned different directions were the SUV and my bike separated by more than a car length.
I don't understand this philosophy that I constantly see in various forms:
I don't care how fast I'm going, or how quickly I get to my destination, so long as I'm in front of YOU.
Another manifestation of the same phenomenon: I've had cruise set on Interstates where I may be maintaining 70 in a 65 zone–always in the right lane unless I'm actively passing another vehicle. Then some car–let's say it's a red Civic–barrels by at 80+. Fine. I continue along at my solid 70, and several minutes later I pass a lumbering truck...with the red Civic lumping along at 55 just ahead, even though there are miles of open pavement ahead. Then, one of two things happen: I'm side-by-side with the Civic and the driver speeds up until he's back to his 80+ in the right lane...Or, I pass him, move right, and he immediately shoots into the left lane and floors it. And in my experience, this never happens just once; it's frequently an hours-long game of leapfrog that only one of the two (the Civic) is perpetuating.
In both cases, the passers would seem to be less concerned with getting to their destinations earlier than with the act of passing itself. Perhaps sometimes motorists change their behavior in response to prejudices with some basis in fact. (such as: Crown Vic = old people = slowpokes → Better pass now while I can)
But other times, there doesn't seem to be an apparent reason. Perhaps the motorist is setting arbitrary benchmarks? As long as I'm in front of the [beige Camry], I'm making good time.
Have you observed this phenomenon–and what are your thoughts and experiences?
Yes, this drives me nuts.
The most recent time it happened to the extent that I actually got annoyed was after the Denver meet. Alps was actually in the car with me. I was on I-76 between I-70 and I-25, and some jerk is riding my ass as we're both in the left lane. Traffic is fairly light, so my cruise is set to 70. I'm reasonably courteous, so I get the point, complete my pass, and get over to the right so they can get around me.
They proceed to pass me, get back into the right lane, and slow to about 67. I flash my high beams at them to say "what the fuck" and they speed back up to about 80. About a minute later, they've slowed back to 67 again, and this time I pass them again. They immediately get on my ass and start flashing their high beams.
At that point I'm pissed off and we're almost to the interchange, so I slow to the 55 that the car parallel to me is going and abuse the left lane for a couple miles.
--
But yes - this routinely happens on rural interstates, typically when you have one car with cruise set at a fixed interval (often the speed limit or five over), and another car that isn't using cruise control. The car without cruise control isn't really maintaining a constant speed, even though they think they are, they're varying by 1-2 miles an hour (especially at the higher RPMs at 75-80 MPH), so a car trying to use the gas pedal to maintain a set speed is going to go faster or slower than the car with the cruise set at 80, which annoys the person that is actually maintaining a constant speed.
My policy in this situation is to just put some distance between us. If my cruise is at 80 exactly and they're varying between 78-82, I'll speed up to 85 for a couple minutes to put some good distance between us, then slow back to 80, and that usually resolves the problem.
--
What irk me are the people that see me passing, realize they're driving slower than they meant to, and start speeding up as I pass - for instance if they're cruising along at 75, I pass them at 80, and they decide they want to go 80 too, they don't wait until I finish passing before speeding up. That makes life fun.
--
Another sort of pacing issue occurs on mountain roads. Flatlanders tend to go really, really slowly around corners and then gun it on straightaways, but if you're really in a mountainous region where the road only has passable straightaways about 20% of the time, the straightaways need to be reserved for passing vehicles. If the speed limit is 50, and I'm capable of going 50 around the curves (while you go 30), I shouldn't have to speed up to 80 to pass you on the rare straightaways as you speed up to 60 for a half mile.
On mountain roads in Idaho, this is typically enforced with slow vehicle turnouts on straightaways, where if you have 3 cars behind you you are legally required to pull over and let people by. This is signed and enforced.
Quote from: briantroutman on June 11, 2015, 07:07:56 PMPerhaps sometimes motorists change their behavior in response to prejudices with some basis in fact. (such as: Crown Vic Grand Marquis = old people = slowpokes → Better pass now while I can)
FTFY :sombrero:
Crown Vic. =
possible cop car.
Even though they're no longer in production; there are still many CVPIs in
active police service out there.
The first few years that I owned my '97 Crown Vic. (which did
not have the Police Interceptor Package); a few did mistake me for an unmarked unit.
I've seen this so many times, mostly when I lived in southern Ontario. People that do anything to pass you, then get stuck at a red light and wait for you to catch up. Here in Winnipeg, it doesn't happen much.
I think people treat you as an obstacle to where they are trying to go, and they have to clear that obstacle. If they do that, they feel some small sort of satisfaction, even for a half a second.
I mostly stay in the right lane, except for the following conditions:
1. Driver in front of me has pissed me off by not doing the posted speed limit
2. There is a truck or other generally slow-moving vehicle in front of me
3. There is a truck a few cars up
4. There is someone holding up the right lane that is not directly in front of me
5. I'm trying to get somewhere
When one of those conditions is met, I will safely switch to the left or center lane and get around whatever obstacle that is around me. When I'm done doing that, I return to the right lane, because I'd rather not be the unlucky sap to get a speeding ticket. If I can see a cop further up the road ahead, I will generally move back to the right lane until I'm clear of the car and return to the left lane to get around the obstacle in the right.
If I see a cop behind me, I change my behavior and don't even bother attempting to pass in the left lane, because I'm not risking the ticket if the cop happens to be of the douche variety.
I am NOT one of the people who will just sit in the left lane and blow by everybody else doing 20+ over the speed limit, nor do I understand why anyone does it - except they are an asshole, or they are in a rush. Regardless, I see it too frequently from Pennsylvania and New Yorkers, while most New Jerseyans are more timid (shocking, right?) in their maneuvers.
...Of course, I come from the state where the "Jersey Slide" was invented, and I have seen a bunch of dickhole Jersey drivers execute it and shift across 4 lanes of traffic in one fell swoop. Gotta love it.
Quote from: Zeffy on June 12, 2015, 12:07:40 PM
...Of course, I come from the state where the "Jersey Slide" was invented, and I have seen a bunch of dickhole Jersey drivers execute it and shift across 4 lanes of traffic in one fell swoop. Gotta love it.
And here I thought it was the "Chicago slide" where they do the exact same thing with little care as to who might be in the far lane they want to go to. One could also call it the "Chicago exit" as it's used quite commonly for exiting purposes, i.e. from the far left lane to the right side exit ramp.
Chicago drivers are a special brand of asshole when it come to passing.
Some will play leap frog with you, you pass them and move over, they speed up, pass you, then slow back down, causing you to repeat.
Some like to speed up as you pass them. I do so love freeway drag races like this where you pass them (they're going 54 mph) at 60, they then feel the need to speed up to 62. You then go 65, they move up to 68. And so on until you pass them at over 75 mph, or just give up.
Some will not give up the left lane no matter what (taxis are especially prone to this from my experience), even if they're being passed constantly on the right. These dicks are usually going 55 to 60 mph.
Some of my favorite ones are those who fly at Mach 2 on the straightaways, then slow the fuck down to 45 mph on the curves. This, on a freeway signed for 55 mph, handled easily at 70 mph, and the curved are superelevated so you can handle them at speed.
Let's not even get into the fantastic merging behavior they display, such as not giving way until someone's bumper is almost sheared off.
There
is a reason Cheeseheads call those with Illinois plates "FIBs".
*Fucking Illinois Bastards
I have certainly witnessed all of these, but there's one factor I should add that often comes into play. Many times it's necessary to pass, not because you're the faster vehicle, but because you're the smaller vehicle. Since I've had mostly cars of the smaller variety, I often find myself explaining silently to people I've passed why I was doing without actually being any faster than they; of course, they never seem to hear me...
This doesn't explain all cases, of course, nor perhaps even most. But it is one reason I can think of where people might have to pass each other that doesn't have to do with getting anywhere faster. It's so you can see what's ahead of you on the road. (Sometimes it's not even that the vehicle you're passing is especially large, but that it's somehow just more opaque than others.)
Quote from: Brandon on June 12, 2015, 12:24:41 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on June 12, 2015, 12:07:40 PM
...Of course, I come from the state where the "Jersey Slide" was invented, and I have seen a bunch of dickhole Jersey drivers execute it and shift across 4 lanes of traffic in one fell swoop. Gotta love it.
And here I thought it was the "Chicago slide" where they do the exact same thing with little care as to who might be in the far lane they want to go to. One could also call it the "Chicago exit" as it's used quite commonly for exiting purposes, i.e. from the far left lane to the right side exit ramp.
Sounds like the LA Shuffle. Impressive -- and scary -- when they seemingly cut across five-six lanes of traffic at at 90° angle from traffic to get that exit.
Quote from: briantroutman on June 11, 2015, 07:07:56 PM
Another manifestation of the same phenomenon: I've had cruise set on Interstates where I may be maintaining 70 in a 65 zone–always in the right lane unless I'm actively passing another vehicle. Then some car–let's say it's a red Civic–barrels by at 80+. Fine. I continue along at my solid 70, and several minutes later I pass a lumbering truck...with the red Civic lumping along at 55 just ahead, even though there are miles of open pavement ahead. Then, one of two things happen: I'm side-by-side with the Civic and the driver speeds up until he's back to his 80+ in the right lane...Or, I pass him, move right, and he immediately shoots into the left lane and floors it. And in my experience, this never happens just once; it's frequently an hours-long game of leapfrog that only one of the two (the Civic) is perpetuating.
Does said Civic have Washington plates?
Pennsylvania is pretty timid in passing. But there was this one guy who almost blew off my ears and made me put up my middle finger.
My dad was driving 70 in a 65 zone, but then this "rich" guy (he had a sports car, don't remember what it was) blew by my dad at 80 miles per hour, shearing my ears off with engine noises. He slows down and comes back at my dad's lane and slows down to about 60. However, I noticed a truck behind us and told my dad to merge left. The 80 mph driver got trapped by four trucks, and I felt the need for karma. Thank trucks.
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 12, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
there was this one guy who almost blew off my ears and made me put up my middle finger.
Quote from: noelbotevera on May 21, 2015, 10:28:39 PM
I'm the youngest roadgeek on this site and I can trust you guys. I'm only eleven years old and have this deep interest with roads.
Kids these days...
Seriously though, traffic laws help prevent this type of behaviour I think. I've been to Asia, and their driving practices are a little... crazy at times. Cramming three cars in two lanes, speeding and going through red lights. Clearances are also a problem. People will cut in front of you, with very little clearance, and it can be very stressful to drive.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on June 12, 2015, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 12, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
there was this one guy who almost blew off my ears and made me put up my middle finger.
Quote from: noelbotevera on May 21, 2015, 10:28:39 PM
I'm the youngest roadgeek on this site and I can trust you guys. I'm only eleven years old and have this deep interest with roads.
Kids these days...
Seriously though, traffic laws help prevent this type of behaviour I think. I've been to Asia, and their driving practices are a little... crazy at times. Cramming three cars in two lanes, speeding and going through red lights. Clearances are also a problem. People will cut in front of you, with very little clearance, and it can be very stressful to drive.
I take it you've never been to Chicago. That's the exact same shit they pull here.
Quote from: Brandon on June 13, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on June 12, 2015, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 12, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
there was this one guy who almost blew off my ears and made me put up my middle finger.
Quote from: noelbotevera on May 21, 2015, 10:28:39 PM
I'm the youngest roadgeek on this site and I can trust you guys. I'm only eleven years old and have this deep interest with roads.
Kids these days...
Seriously though, traffic laws help prevent this type of behaviour I think. I've been to Asia, and their driving practices are a little... crazy at times. Cramming three cars in two lanes, speeding and going through red lights. Clearances are also a problem. People will cut in front of you, with very little clearance, and it can be very stressful to drive.
I take it you've never been to Chicago. That's the exact same shit they pull here.
No, but I have been to New York. I wasn't driving (I was 15 at the time), and didn't like it.
Quote from: SignGeek101 on June 12, 2015, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 12, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
there was this one guy who almost blew off my ears and made me put up my middle finger.
Quote from: noelbotevera on May 21, 2015, 10:28:39 PM
I'm the youngest roadgeek on this site and I can trust you guys. I'm only eleven years old and have this deep interest with roads.
Kids these days...
Seriously though, traffic laws help prevent this type of behaviour I think. I've been to Asia, and their driving practices are a little... crazy at times. Cramming three cars in two lanes, speeding and going through red lights. Clearances are also a problem. People will cut in front of you, with very little clearance, and it can be very stressful to drive.
No, that's simply me putting off steam. Yeah I've been corrupted a bit, but hey, at least I'm different. That's sorta rude to say.
That scenario in Asia makes it sound like Fast and Furious.
Quote from: doorknob60 on June 12, 2015, 01:08:38 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 11, 2015, 07:07:56 PM
Another manifestation of the same phenomenon: I've had cruise set on Interstates where I may be maintaining 70 in a 65 zone–always in the right lane unless I'm actively passing another vehicle. Then some car–let's say it's a red Civic–barrels by at 80+. Fine. I continue along at my solid 70, and several minutes later I pass a lumbering truck...with the red Civic lumping along at 55 just ahead, even though there are miles of open pavement ahead. Then, one of two things happen: I'm side-by-side with the Civic and the driver speeds up until he's back to his 80+ in the right lane...Or, I pass him, move right, and he immediately shoots into the left lane and floors it. And in my experience, this never happens just once; it's frequently an hours-long game of leapfrog that only one of the two (the Civic) is perpetuating.
Does said Civic have Washington Oregon plates?
FTFY.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2015, 02:32:44 AM
Quote from: doorknob60 on June 12, 2015, 01:08:38 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 11, 2015, 07:07:56 PM
Another manifestation of the same phenomenon: I’ve had cruise set on Interstates where I may be maintaining 70 in a 65 zone—always in the right lane unless I’m actively passing another vehicle. Then some car—let’s say it’s a red Civic—barrels by at 80+. Fine. I continue along at my solid 70, and several minutes later I pass a lumbering truck...with the red Civic lumping along at 55 just ahead, even though there are miles of open pavement ahead. Then, one of two things happen: I’m side-by-side with the Civic and the driver speeds up until he’s back to his 80+ in the right lane...Or, I pass him, move right, and he immediately shoots into the left lane and floors it. And in my experience, this never happens just once; it’s frequently an hours-long game of leapfrog that only one of the two (the Civic) is perpetuating.
Does said Civic have Washington Oregon plates?
FTFY.
I'll fully admit both states have a lot of shitty drivers (especially western Oregon; Central and eastern drivers from both states are generally better on open highways). But here is proof that it's not just me (and my dad) that see an abnormally high amount of Washington drivers that don't have lane discipline.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/39liee/oregon_begins_cracking_down_on_slow_left_lane/cs4ilbj
My dad and I coined the term "yo yo drivers" for situations like what you described, and/or drivers that drive 50 on a two lane highway (where everyone's going 60-65+) and then speed up to 70-75+ whenever there is a passing lane, making it difficult to pass them. "Yo Yo driving" and staying too far to the left are the biggest offences I see from Washington drivers (and I've experienced both of these happening from the passenger seat, riding with friends from WA).
Quote from: doorknob60 on June 13, 2015, 02:42:30 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2015, 02:32:44 AM
Quote from: doorknob60 on June 12, 2015, 01:08:38 PM
Quote from: briantroutman on June 11, 2015, 07:07:56 PM
Another manifestation of the same phenomenon: I've had cruise set on Interstates where I may be maintaining 70 in a 65 zone–always in the right lane unless I'm actively passing another vehicle. Then some car–let's say it's a red Civic–barrels by at 80+. Fine. I continue along at my solid 70, and several minutes later I pass a lumbering truck...with the red Civic lumping along at 55 just ahead, even though there are miles of open pavement ahead. Then, one of two things happen: I'm side-by-side with the Civic and the driver speeds up until he's back to his 80+ in the right lane...Or, I pass him, move right, and he immediately shoots into the left lane and floors it. And in my experience, this never happens just once; it's frequently an hours-long game of leapfrog that only one of the two (the Civic) is perpetuating.
Does said Civic have Washington Oregon plates?
FTFY.
I'll fully admit both states have a lot of shitty drivers (especially western Oregon; Central and eastern drivers from both states are generally better on open highways). But here is proof that it's not just me (and my dad) that see an abnormally high amount of Washington drivers that don't have lane discipline.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Portland/comments/39liee/oregon_begins_cracking_down_on_slow_left_lane/cs4ilbj
My dad and I coined the term "yo yo drivers" for situations like what you described, and/or drivers that drive 50 on a two lane highway (where everyone's going 60-65+) and then speed up to 70-75+ whenever there is a passing lane, making it difficult to pass them. "Yo Yo driving" and staying too far to the left are the biggest offences I see from Washington drivers (and I've experienced both of these happening from the passenger seat, riding with friends from WA).
That whole Reddit forum is made up of Oregonians; the running joke up here is that left-lane campers always have Canadian or Oregon plates. California Plates are usually the ones flying up on the right.
Jokes aside, each state thinks the other is worse. And yes, I will concur that we all really suck and lack any sort of lane discipline.
EDIT: Washington might have shittier lane discipline because we spend all day sitting in traffic, and you can't practice lane discipline when you're surrounded by 400,000 other cars going 0 miles per hour.
Quote from: jakeroot on June 13, 2015, 02:59:06 AM
EDIT: Washington might have shittier lane discipline because we spend all day sitting in traffic, and you can't practice lane discipline when you're surrounded by 400,000 other cars going 0 miles per hour.
I can buy that. Same can go for Portland drivers. I've spend my fair share of time in both Seattle and Portland and yeah, traffic sucks in both places. Probably a bit worse in Seattle (at least downtown, Portland's freeways might be worse but it's close). It would also explain why in less crowded places like Bend, Tri-Cities, the I-84 corridor, etc. this is less of an issue. I drove from Seattle back to Nampa a few months ago and once I got past Snoqualme Pass I don't really recall having any issues with poor lane discipline, nor did I notice any real difference when crossing state lines. And hey, at least you guys have higher speed limits.
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 13, 2015, 01:47:57 AM
No, that's simply me putting off steam. Yeah I've been corrupted a bit, but hey, at least I'm different. That's sorta rude to say.
I've heard worse things coming out of kids who are YOUNGER than you. Considering I myself did profane things at around your age, I can't really complain.
Quote from: Brandon on June 13, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
I take it you've never been to Chicago. That's the exact same shit they pull here.
Do Chicagoans switch lanes without signaling? Because over here, out of staters tend to do that much more than us Jersey drivers. I still scoff when they say New Jersey has worse drivers than Pennsylvania or New York. Maybe not the entire states, but New York City and eastern Pennsylvania/Philadelphia DEFINITELY has worse drivers than ALL of New Jersey!
By the way - signaling - that's something EVERY driver should do. If you are switching lanes, or you are turning where it may not be clear which direction you are going, you should signal. I can't stand people who don't signal. It's literally a flick of your damn fucking wrist to activate it, and it helps other people behind you know of your intentions. /rant
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 13, 2015, 01:47:57 AM
Quote from: SignGeek101 on June 12, 2015, 07:39:15 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 12, 2015, 06:48:40 PM
there was this one guy who almost blew off my ears and made me put up my middle finger.
Quote from: noelbotevera on May 21, 2015, 10:28:39 PM
I'm the youngest roadgeek on this site and I can trust you guys. I'm only eleven years old and have this deep interest with roads.
Kids these days...
No, that's simply me putting off steam. Yeah I've been corrupted a bit, but hey, at least I'm different. That's sorta rude to say.
I was just joking :-P
Quote from: Zeffy on June 13, 2015, 10:21:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on June 13, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
I take it you've never been to Chicago. That's the exact same shit they pull here.
Do Chicagoans switch lanes without signaling? Because over here, out of staters tend to do that much more than us Jersey drivers. I still scoff when they say New Jersey has worse drivers than Pennsylvania or New York. Maybe not the entire states, but New York City and eastern Pennsylvania/Philadelphia DEFINITELY has worse drivers than ALL of New Jersey!
By the way - signaling - that's something EVERY driver should do. If you are switching lanes, or you are turning where it may not be clear which direction you are going, you should signal. I can't stand people who don't signal. It's literally a flick of your damn fucking wrist to activate it, and it helps other people behind you know of your intentions. /rant
YES, Chicagoans fail to signal quite often. They'll switch lanes with no signal, they'll make turns right in front of you without a signal, and they'll merge onto the interstates without a signal. It must take a lot of effort to push down the turn signal button. As for merging, without a signal, I don't make any effort to let them in, then they get mad at me, but they really just made themselves angry. Signal on, I let you in.
As for the passing thing, I don't get that either. I was on US 34 (freeway segment) with the cruise control set. The whole way from I-74 to US 67 was a leapfrog game with a pickup truck. I never hit the gas or brake. At least 5 rounds of pass/be passed happened. And worse yet, the driver was looking at me angry like I was doing something wrong! I never once adjusted my speed.
I never understand those "go 80 then go 55" people. Never.
Austin is full of morons who don't use their blinker. I just assume they are going straight and lay on the horn when they turn.
I've noticed a slightly different phenomenon. When I'm in the right lane approaching a slower moving vehicle, very often a car behind me decides to pass me right before I need to pass the car ahead of me, though I'm maintaining my normal speed. At that point I have two options. I can cut the passing car off or slam on the brakes. Usually I end up doing the latter, but either way it's really annoying.
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 11:19:34 AM
I've noticed a slightly different phenomenon. When I'm in the right lane approaching a slower moving vehicle, very often a car behind me decides to pass me right before I need to pass the car ahead of me, though I'm maintaining my normal speed. At that point I have two options. I can cut the passing car off or slam on the brakes. Usually I end up doing the latter, but either way it's really annoying.
The car behind you is doing it right. They notice a slower moving vehicle - whether it be you or the vehicle in front of you - and merge over when they can. If you get so close to that slower vehicle that you have to slam on your brakes, you are failing to compensate for the vehicle in front of you. You should have either merged over when you can, or gently slowed a little to merge when you have available room.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 11:19:34 AM
I've noticed a slightly different phenomenon. When I'm in the right lane approaching a slower moving vehicle, very often a car behind me decides to pass me right before I need to pass the car ahead of me, though I'm maintaining my normal speed. At that point I have two options. I can cut the passing car off or slam on the brakes. Usually I end up doing the latter, but either way it's really annoying.
The car behind you is doing it right. They notice a slower moving vehicle - whether it be you or the vehicle in front of you - and merge over when they can. If you get so close to that slower vehicle that you have to slam on your brakes, you are failing to compensate for the vehicle in front of you. You should have either merged over when you can, or gently slowed a little to merge when you have available room.
If there's no one in the passing lane I'm not slowing down because I intend to pass. I cannot read someone's mind and expect that they will start passing me at the same time I'm getting ready to pass the car in front of me.
Quote from: Super Mateo on June 18, 2015, 10:51:18 AM
Quote from: Zeffy on June 13, 2015, 10:21:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on June 13, 2015, 12:18:10 AM
I take it you've never been to Chicago. That's the exact same shit they pull here.
Do Chicagoans switch lanes without signaling? Because over here, out of staters tend to do that much more than us Jersey drivers. I still scoff when they say New Jersey has worse drivers than Pennsylvania or New York. Maybe not the entire states, but New York City and eastern Pennsylvania/Philadelphia DEFINITELY has worse drivers than ALL of New Jersey!
By the way - signaling - that's something EVERY driver should do. If you are switching lanes, or you are turning where it may not be clear which direction you are going, you should signal. I can't stand people who don't signal. It's literally a flick of your damn fucking wrist to activate it, and it helps other people behind you know of your intentions. /rant
YES, Chicagoans fail to signal quite often. They'll switch lanes with no signal, they'll make turns right in front of you without a signal, and they'll merge onto the interstates without a signal. It must take a lot of effort to push down the turn signal button. As for merging, without a signal, I don't make any effort to let them in, then they get mad at me, but they really just made themselves angry. Signal on, I let you in.
I call it the "sneak attack lane change". Why? Because if you do use your signal and leave it on for more than two seconds, the vehicle behind you and in the lane you want to change to will cut you off. It's a sport around here. I think of it as "full-contact driving".
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 11:19:34 AM
I've noticed a slightly different phenomenon. When I'm in the right lane approaching a slower moving vehicle, very often a car behind me decides to pass me right before I need to pass the car ahead of me, though I'm maintaining my normal speed. At that point I have two options. I can cut the passing car off or slam on the brakes. Usually I end up doing the latter, but either way it's really annoying.
The car behind you is doing it right. They notice a slower moving vehicle - whether it be you or the vehicle in front of you - and merge over when they can. If you get so close to that slower vehicle that you have to slam on your brakes, you are failing to compensate for the vehicle in front of you. You should have either merged over when you can, or gently slowed a little to merge when you have available room.
What I hate is when you're crusing along in the left lane and there is a slow driver in the right lane, and the guy behind him is going slightly faster and gets over right in front of you taking forever to pass. if the car in the left lane is coming up fast, let them by first!
Now you start to see how the frustrations come about. There are two broad categories of drivers: those that are acting according to a set of rules and/or principles, and those that are just kind of doing whatever. On top of that, there isn't complete agreement within the first group as to which exact principles apply, or how they apply.
iPhone
We have every bad type of driving in Austin. Now I know where the Jersey Slide came from.
I experience the issue of people behind me moving to pass right as I was going to quite often as well, usually on the Thruway, but sometimes the Northway as well. There's a reason why it's almost always these two (aside from the fact that I drive them the most): AADTs are high enough on these roads that the left lane is rarely free of traffic. If I move over to pass, unless I go 80, somebody WILL have to slow down while I pass. Because of this, rather than merge over whenever an opportunity presents itself, I typically wait to pass until I'm on top of the person I want to pass and then wait for a gap I can merge into. Often someone more aggressive will end up behind me, and whip over into the left lane as soon as the gap I intend to use arrives, forcing me to wait longer.
Quote from: briantroutman on June 11, 2015, 07:07:56 PMAnother manifestation of the same phenomenon: I've had cruise set on Interstates where I may be maintaining 70 in a 65 zone–always in the right lane unless I'm actively passing another vehicle. Then some car–let's say it's a red Civic–barrels by at 80+. Fine. I continue along at my solid 70, and several minutes later I pass a lumbering truck...with the red Civic lumping along at 55 just ahead, even though there are miles of open pavement ahead. Then, one of two things happen: I'm side-by-side with the Civic and the driver speeds up until he's back to his 80+ in the right lane...Or, I pass him, move right, and he immediately shoots into the left lane and floors it. And in my experience, this never happens just once; it's frequently an hours-long game of leapfrog that only one of the two (the Civic) is perpetuating.
In this example, the red Civic might have pulled out to pass a larger vehicle immediately in front, only to discover that the larger vehicle was the last in a multi-car platoon, leaving the Civic with the option either of cutting into the platoon somewhere or putting on a lot of speed to finish passing the entire platoon without tying up the passing lane for a lengthy period of time.
When I find myself in this situation, I generally proceed with a high-speed overtake and keep going at the higher speed for some time after I return to the driving lane, before I take my foot off the throttle and let the cruise control pick up. The purpose of the latter step is to build up a margin of space and time to give the platoon a chance to break up on its own before the vehicles in it start to overtake me (not all do).
When I was younger, I was much more tolerant of leapfrogging because I valued maintaining a steady speed much more than I did a fixed position in the traffic sequence. However, as I have gotten older, I have become more willing to vary my speed a little as needed to avoid changing sequence position, as other drivers tend to see leapfrogging as aggressive behavior. Much of driving is about staying out of the way of others making mistakes.
Quote from: Bickendan on June 12, 2015, 12:36:12 PMQuote from: Brandon on June 12, 2015, 12:24:41 PMQuote from: Zeffy on June 12, 2015, 12:07:40 PM
...Of course, I come from the state where the "Jersey Slide" was invented, and I have seen a bunch of dickhole Jersey drivers execute it and shift across 4 lanes of traffic in one fell swoop. Gotta love it.
And here I thought it was the "Chicago slide" where they do the exact same thing with little care as to who might be in the far lane they want to go to. One could also call it the "Chicago exit" as it's used quite commonly for exiting purposes, i.e. from the far left lane to the right side exit ramp.
Sounds like the LA Shuffle. Impressive -- and scary -- when they seemingly cut across five-six lanes of traffic at at 90° angle from traffic to get that exit.
In Britain the technical term for this behavior is "swooping" and tiger-tail markings were developed specifically to discourage it.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 11:19:34 AMI've noticed a slightly different phenomenon. When I'm in the right lane approaching a slower moving vehicle, very often a car behind me decides to pass me right before I need to pass the car ahead of me, though I'm maintaining my normal speed. At that point I have two options. I can cut the passing car off or slam on the brakes. Usually I end up doing the latter, but either way it's really annoying.
The car behind you is doing it right. They notice a slower moving vehicle - whether it be you or the vehicle in front of you - and merge over when they can. If you get so close to that slower vehicle that you have to slam on your brakes, you are failing to compensate for the vehicle in front of you. You should have either merged over when you can, or gently slowed a little to merge when you have available room.
What the rear following car is doing is gazumphing the front following car's passing opportunity. It is annoying for the front following car, and I would not go so far as to say that the rear following car is doing the "right thing." The reality is that neither car has a prior claim on the passing lane. The best way to avoid being gazumphed is to check for a following car that may wish to gazumph and plan the passing maneuver accordingly, either by moving to the passing lane first and putting on speed, or drawing back on the throttle so that it is not necessary to brake to avoid overrunning the car in front, and allowing the other car to pass first.
There is usually--not always, but usually--a way to avoid the need for undesired abrupt application of the brakes that involves taking action further back in the chain of causation, based on inferences about what other vehicles are likely to do. In this particular case the necessary inferences are reliably supported by experience, so they are not difficult to make.
If myself and a car in front of me are passing someone...I will notice the car in front of me takes forever to pass, sitting in the right lane car's blind spot or just slowly passing and then when they get back over in the right lane do about 20mph faster than when they were passing!?
Or the guy that races to pass all of us before a lane drop and then goes slow.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 18, 2015, 09:04:53 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 11:19:34 AMI've noticed a slightly different phenomenon. When I'm in the right lane approaching a slower moving vehicle, very often a car behind me decides to pass me right before I need to pass the car ahead of me, though I'm maintaining my normal speed. At that point I have two options. I can cut the passing car off or slam on the brakes. Usually I end up doing the latter, but either way it's really annoying.
The car behind you is doing it right. They notice a slower moving vehicle - whether it be you or the vehicle in front of you - and merge over when they can. If you get so close to that slower vehicle that you have to slam on your brakes, you are failing to compensate for the vehicle in front of you. You should have either merged over when you can, or gently slowed a little to merge when you have available room.
What the rear following car is doing is gazumphing the front following car's passing opportunity. It is annoying for the front following car, and I would not go so far as to say that the rear following car is doing the "right thing." The reality is that neither car has a prior claim on the passing lane. The best way to avoid being gazumphed is to check for a following car that may wish to gazumph and plan the passing maneuver accordingly, either by moving to the passing lane first and putting on speed, or drawing back on the throttle so that it is not necessary to brake to avoid overrunning the car in front, and allowing the other car to pass first.
There is usually--not always, but usually--a way to avoid the need for undesired abrupt application of the brakes that involves taking action further back in the chain of causation, based on inferences about what other vehicles are likely to do. In this particular case the necessary inferences are reliably supported by experience, so they are not difficult to make.
I agree with this, and will typically give the car in front of me right of way- if I'm coming up fast on somebody approaching a truck, for instance, I'll lay off the gas and even start to move into the right lane so that they are aware that they can pass. That seems to be how most folks drive in this part of the country, but in other regions that doesn't seem to be the case. When I lived in Arizona, for instance, what jeffandnicole describes seems to be the norm.
Quote from: corco on June 18, 2015, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 18, 2015, 09:04:53 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 11:19:34 AMI've noticed a slightly different phenomenon. When I'm in the right lane approaching a slower moving vehicle, very often a car behind me decides to pass me right before I need to pass the car ahead of me, though I'm maintaining my normal speed. At that point I have two options. I can cut the passing car off or slam on the brakes. Usually I end up doing the latter, but either way it's really annoying.
The car behind you is doing it right. They notice a slower moving vehicle - whether it be you or the vehicle in front of you - and merge over when they can. If you get so close to that slower vehicle that you have to slam on your brakes, you are failing to compensate for the vehicle in front of you. You should have either merged over when you can, or gently slowed a little to merge when you have available room.
What the rear following car is doing is gazumphing the front following car's passing opportunity. It is annoying for the front following car, and I would not go so far as to say that the rear following car is doing the "right thing." The reality is that neither car has a prior claim on the passing lane. The best way to avoid being gazumphed is to check for a following car that may wish to gazumph and plan the passing maneuver accordingly, either by moving to the passing lane first and putting on speed, or drawing back on the throttle so that it is not necessary to brake to avoid overrunning the car in front, and allowing the other car to pass first.
There is usually--not always, but usually--a way to avoid the need for undesired abrupt application of the brakes that involves taking action further back in the chain of causation, based on inferences about what other vehicles are likely to do. In this particular case the necessary inferences are reliably supported by experience, so they are not difficult to make.
I agree with this, and will typically give the car in front of me right of way- if I'm coming up fast on somebody approaching a truck, for instance, I'll lay off the gas and even start to move into the right lane so that they are aware that they can pass. That seems to be how most folks drive in this part of the country, but in other regions that doesn't seem to be the case. When I lived in Arizona, for instance, what jeffandnicole describes seems to be the norm.
There's also an assumption here that the front car wants to pass. If they have an exit coming up, they may not have the desire to pass anyway. Or, in the case of one of my carpoolers, he may sit behind that slower vehicle for 5 miles, regardless of the numerous passing opportunities that exist.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:35:52 PM
Quote from: corco on June 18, 2015, 11:24:30 PM
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 18, 2015, 09:04:53 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 18, 2015, 11:53:16 AM
Quote from: bzakharin on June 18, 2015, 11:19:34 AMI've noticed a slightly different phenomenon. When I'm in the right lane approaching a slower moving vehicle, very often a car behind me decides to pass me right before I need to pass the car ahead of me, though I'm maintaining my normal speed. At that point I have two options. I can cut the passing car off or slam on the brakes. Usually I end up doing the latter, but either way it's really annoying.
The car behind you is doing it right. They notice a slower moving vehicle - whether it be you or the vehicle in front of you - and merge over when they can. If you get so close to that slower vehicle that you have to slam on your brakes, you are failing to compensate for the vehicle in front of you. You should have either merged over when you can, or gently slowed a little to merge when you have available room.
What the rear following car is doing is gazumphing the front following car's passing opportunity. It is annoying for the front following car, and I would not go so far as to say that the rear following car is doing the "right thing." The reality is that neither car has a prior claim on the passing lane. The best way to avoid being gazumphed is to check for a following car that may wish to gazumph and plan the passing maneuver accordingly, either by moving to the passing lane first and putting on speed, or drawing back on the throttle so that it is not necessary to brake to avoid overrunning the car in front, and allowing the other car to pass first.
There is usually--not always, but usually--a way to avoid the need for undesired abrupt application of the brakes that involves taking action further back in the chain of causation, based on inferences about what other vehicles are likely to do. In this particular case the necessary inferences are reliably supported by experience, so they are not difficult to make.
I agree with this, and will typically give the car in front of me right of way- if I'm coming up fast on somebody approaching a truck, for instance, I'll lay off the gas and even start to move into the right lane so that they are aware that they can pass. That seems to be how most folks drive in this part of the country, but in other regions that doesn't seem to be the case. When I lived in Arizona, for instance, what jeffandnicole describes seems to be the norm.
There's also an assumption here that the front car wants to pass. If they have an exit coming up, they may not have the desire to pass anyway. Or, in the case of one of my carpoolers, he may sit behind that slower vehicle for 5 miles, regardless of the numerous passing opportunities that exist.
Yeah, once I start to slow down I typically give about five seconds before I'll speed back up to overtake, and I do make an effort to pass quickly in case that car does want to get around. Out here the sightlines are honestly so good that it's not usually a problem- in 95% of situations I can tell if the car intends to pass long before I approach the situation.
I find it helps, especially on longer trips, to set out with the mindset that you don't need to be among the faster vehicles on the road. Although it's often our instinct, as soon as we come upon a slower vehicle than ourselves, to immediately start thinking about how and when we'll be able to pass it, just taking a moment to ask ourselves if we need to pass at all, rather than simply making a small adjustment and remaining in the line, with passing reserved for a last resort, can take a lot of the stress out. Quite often, this still allows us to cruise along at or comfortably above the speed limit, and usually keeps us free of traffic, because all of the traffic tends to zoom by and get out of our way.
At least for me, this approach works quite well on high-pressure roads like the Merritt Parkway. I just amble along at 5-10 above the limit, and every other car in the world leaves me peacefully behind. :-)
Honestly, driving a bit faster than the speed of traffic helps me stay engaged on long, boring trips, so I use it for that as much as anything.
Quote from: empirestate on June 18, 2015, 11:55:59 PMI find it helps, especially on longer trips, to set out with the mindset that you don't need to be among the faster vehicles on the road. Although it's often our instinct, as soon as we come upon a slower vehicle than ourselves, to immediately start thinking about how and when we'll be able to pass it, just taking a moment to ask ourselves if we need to pass at all, rather than simply making a small adjustment and remaining in the line, with passing reserved for a last resort, can take a lot of the stress out. Quite often, this still allows us to cruise along at or comfortably above the speed limit, and usually keeps us free of traffic, because all of the traffic tends to zoom by and get out of our way.
I tend to set my cruise control at 72 in 75 MPH zones to keep revs right at 3000 RPM. The main motivation for this is actually to limit oil consumption at high RPM (a well-known design problem in my car), but being left out of platoons is a nice side benefit.
On two-lane roads other factors tend to come into play. I don't like to follow another car for an extended period of time if I can avoid it, because it gets tedious to trim speed even with cruise control, and even if I maintain a safe following distance, my forward visibility and my scope for maneuver are more limited than they would be if the road ahead were completely clear. I also don't like to contribute to platoon formation. However, I will drive on crowded two-lanes if I have to, and will deploy coping strategies such as pulling over and waiting, stopping for extended breaks, etc. rather than always choosing a high-stakes overtake as the first resort.
Quote from: corco on June 18, 2015, 11:42:21 PMYeah, once I start to slow down I typically give about five seconds before I'll speed back up to overtake, and I do make an effort to pass quickly in case that car does want to get around. Out here the sightlines are honestly so good that it's not usually a problem- in 95% of situations I can tell if the car intends to pass long before I approach the situation.
Also, since some drivers are slow to read the situations they are in, while others change their minds abruptly, it is just good defensive driving not to approach "hot" from behind.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 19, 2015, 12:13:43 AM
I tend to set my cruise control at 72 in 75 MPH zones to keep revs right at 3000 RPM. The main motivation for this is actually to limit oil consumption at high RPM (a well-known design problem in my car), but being left out of platoons is a nice side benefit.
As long as you stay to the right, poking along like that's fine by me.
Quote from: Rothman on June 19, 2015, 06:59:48 AMAs long as you stay to the right, poking along like that's fine by me.
I haven't said that I camp out in the passing lane, or advocated that others do so. Since you are in a completely different region of the country, I am not sure how you would have been able to observe my driving at first hand, so I am a little perplexed as to the reason for your concern.
Quote from: J N Winkler on June 19, 2015, 02:30:29 PM
Quote from: Rothman on June 19, 2015, 06:59:48 AMAs long as you stay to the right, poking along like that's fine by me.
I haven't said that I camp out in the passing lane, or advocated that others do so. Since you are in a completely different region of the country, I am not sure how you would have been able to observe my driving at first hand, so I am a little perplexed as to the reason for your concern.
Going 3 mph under the speed limit must mean the majority of the other traffic is passing you, that's all.
Quote from: Rothman on June 19, 2015, 02:54:23 PMGoing 3 mph under the speed limit must mean the majority of the other traffic is passing you, that's all.
Generally this is true, but on occasion I do have to pull out and pass somebody and when I do that, I try to do it with a reasonable speed differential, not at the cruise control setting.