NBC News Today Show [
video]: Florida gas station charges almost $6 per gallon (http://www.today.com/video/florida-gas-station-charges-almost-6-per-gallon-469258819955)
QuoteTwo gas stations near the airport in Orlando, Florida, are accused of exploiting tourists, charging $4.89 and $5.95 per gallon and posting the prices inconspicuously. NBC national investigative correspondent Jeff Rossen reports.
Yea, this happens very regularly and seen news stories about it many times. This is nothing new nor illegal.
Cue post from roadman65 in 3, 2, 1...
Quote from: WashuOtaku on June 22, 2015, 06:36:01 PM
Yea, this happens very regularly and seen news stories about it many times. This is nothing new nor illegal.
The way that the one gas station hides its prices does seem, well, a little
unethical or
dishonest, even if not unlawful.
But tourists headed to and from Florida have long been targeted by scammers - consider the case of highly unethical traffic law enforcement that went on for years in Ludowici, Georgia (https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ludowici,_Georgia), targeting north-south drivers on U.S. 301 and other roads.
And I used to think this only happened in CA...
Quote from: Henry on June 24, 2015, 01:06:53 PM
And I used to think this only happened in CA...
I do not believe it is as extreme as the case in Orlando, but someone returning a car to Washington Dulles Airport (IAD) in Northern Virginia has exactly one on-airport choice (most rental car returns are on-airport) - an Exxon that generally charges pretty steep prices for gasoline.
Keep in mind that many (probably most) travelers will take the toll-free Dulles Access Road to reach the airport, which means they cannot exit until they get to the airport itself.
Supply and demand. Want a better deal, stop for gas before the last possible location before returning your vehicle. Or, probably just return it empty and pay the premium price for the rental agency to refill it.
As long as the pump price and any sign price are the same and visible while fueling, there shouldn't be an issue.
The worst I had was I pull up to a pump in PA that said "SELF SERV" and assumed that meant both sides of the pump, a guy came out to pump my gas from the building. Thinking this place was cool, he pumped the gas, and then found out the ONE half of ONE pump was full-service, and I was charged 30c more per gallon for the privilege.
In the Dulles case, and most others, usually you can fudge full by filling up within 20 miles or so of your drop-off point and avoid getting nailed by the on-airport provider. I don't think I've seen a (properly working) gas gauge that registers less-than-full before you've consumed at least a couple of gallons in a long time.
It might be a stretch if you got on I-66 in DC and were doing the bee-line for Dulles using the "I'm going to Dulles" HOV restriction loophole though. But if you're doing that, you probably should have just flown into DCA anyway.
Most every time I've ever rented a car, I never had to bring it back 'full', just bring it back where it was when I rented it. I've rented cars with 1/4 tank and only had to bring it back with 1/4 tank. For those (Enterprise, primarily), they give you the tank size, so you have a rough approximation. I've been a tad over or a tad under before, and never had to pay the ridiculous charge for them to fill it. And I don't think I once ever rented a car with a full tank at the start.
Quote from: Sykotyk on June 26, 2015, 02:43:58 PM
Most every time I've ever rented a car, I never had to bring it back 'full', just bring it back where it was when I rented it. I've rented cars with 1/4 tank and only had to bring it back with 1/4 tank. For those (Enterprise, primarily), they give you the tank size, so you have a rough approximation. I've been a tad over or a tad under before, and never had to pay the ridiculous charge for them to fill it. And I don't think I once ever rented a car with a full tank at the start.
In the old days, they gave you a car with a full tank and expected a full tank in return.
Todays' system as employed by Enterprise is much more reasonable. You fill it to where it came in from, so from a gas tank perspective, it's as though you never even rented the car.
They probably give you at least a quarter tank to start with.
This also generally saves them the trouble of actually taking hte time to fill up the car.
One thing I like about Enterprise is they have a lot of locations to rent cars from, i.e. not just airports. This was very useful for a number of trips where we were able to borrow a car from friends for part, and then rent our own car for other parts.
I've never encountered an airport location that doesn't provide a full(ish) tank and require it be returned the same way (or pay an exorbitant fee for them to fill it). Since most major airports now use combined rental facilities, it isn't a big deal for them to get fuel delivery in there to serve every agency from a shared pump. Non-airport locations are off on their own without their own pump and so they don't want to have to send employees out to a regular station to fill it, and thus require that people return it in whatever condition it was provided in.
There are three basic "gas options" with rental cars. Depending on geography, rental location, and over time, you will see each one. All have issues.
- Get full, return full (with a confiscatory price should you fail to do so). This used to be standard. The issue is that, if you are flying, you have to add a gas stop in on your departure day, and, as this thread started upon, many places have a ridiculous priced station that is the last before the airport. The way to beat it is to fill up the day before at a low price station. Maybe you need to top it off on turn in day, but, as noted, most gas gages are not that sensitive and you can go quite a ways and still be on full.
- Get whatever, turn in same. The issue here is you have to fill the car before turning it in not full, but to whatever level you got it. So you know how much gas to put in a car model you are not familiar with to get it back from 1/4th to 3/4ths? Good for you, because I can't. Thus most people end up over filling and that is giving free gas to the rental company.
- Get full, return empty. Also called "pre-paid gas". This can be a good deal, if two factors are both present. First, you must have a trip that uses at least a full tank (which is rare in the typical airport rental situation). And the pre-paid price must be fair. Rarely is it. If you leave gas in the tank, you are giving gas to the rental company. If you pay $4/gallon and the local price is $3, you are getting cheated.
Quote from: SP Cook on June 27, 2015, 07:26:23 AM
There are three basic "gas options" with rental cars. Depending on geography, rental location, and over time, you will see each one. All have issues.
- Get full, return full (with a confiscatory price should you fail to do so). This used to be standard. The issue is that, if you are flying, you have to add a gas stop in on your departure day, and, as this thread started upon, many places have a ridiculous priced station that is the last before the airport. The way to beat it is to fill up the day before at a low price station. Maybe you need to top it off on turn in day, but, as noted, most gas gages are not that sensitive and you can go quite a ways and still be on full.
- Get whatever, turn in same. The issue here is you have to fill the car before turning it in not full, but to whatever level you got it. So you know how much gas to put in a car model you are not familiar with to get it back from 1/4th to 3/4ths? Good for you, because I can't. Thus most people end up over filling and that is giving free gas to the rental company.
- Get full, return empty. Also called "pre-paid gas". This can be a good deal, if two factors are both present. First, you must have a trip that uses at least a full tank (which is rare in the typical airport rental situation). And the pre-paid price must be fair. Rarely is it. If you leave gas in the tank, you are giving gas to the rental company. If you pay $4/gallon and the local price is $3, you are getting cheated.
(made 7 size font to reduce size)
I have seen all three options at the same place. You could choose any one of the three.
Quote from: SP Cook on June 27, 2015, 07:26:23 AM
There are three basic "gas options" with rental cars. Depending on geography, rental location, and over time, you will see each one. All have issues.
- Get full, return full (with a confiscatory price should you fail to do so). This used to be standard. The issue is that, if you are flying, you have to add a gas stop in on your departure day, and, as this thread started upon, many places have a ridiculous priced station that is the last before the airport. The way to beat it is to fill up the day before at a low price station. Maybe you need to top it off on turn in day, but, as noted, most gas gages are not that sensitive and you can go quite a ways and still be on full.
And many people don't leave first thing in the morning, but rather than any point during the day, so they're going to be driving around as is. One can easily fill up within 20 - 25 miles of the rental location and still have it on Full when they return the car.
Quote
- Get full, return empty. Also called "pre-paid gas". This can be a good deal, if two factors are both present. First, you must have a trip that uses at least a full tank (which is rare in the typical airport rental situation). And the pre-paid price must be fair. Rarely is it. If you leave gas in the tank, you are giving gas to the rental company. If you pay $4/gallon and the local price is $3, you are getting cheated.
In many cases (at least with Dollar), they discount the gas if you prepay. They'll show a chart at the rental desk that say gas in the area is $2.75 a gallon on average (and note...on *average*). But if you prepay, they'll give it to you at $2.65 a gallon.
What a deal, right? Wrong, in almost every case.
Let's say you have a 20 gallon tank. You do your best to run it down to nearly empty, but you return it with 19 gallons.
If you bought the 19 gallons yourself, it would be $2.75 * 19 = $52.25.
Instead, you had purchased 20 gallons upfront, at $2.65. $2.65 * 20 = $53.00. Since you paid $53 but only needed 19 gallons, you actually paid $2.79 a gallon.
It's not that much difference, if you were able to run the tank that low. But you still paid too much. I don't know about you, but I'm skittish whenever I'm near E on my car. And when I have been, and I filled it up, it shows that I filled 18 gallons of gas into a 20 gallon tank, so I still had 2 gallons left. And a rental car is generally unfamiliar to the user, so they won't know how much gas they really have when the needle is at E.
Thus, the majority of people returning their car left it low, but not very low. Let's say they returned it with a quarter tank - 5 gallons left. $2.75 * 15 = $41.25. If they prepaid, they paid over $10 too much for that gas! And you paid the equivalent of over $3.53 a gallon!!!
When gas is more expensive (in the $3 and $4 range), the differences are even more dramatic!
Quote from: Sykotyk on June 25, 2015, 10:53:44 PM
Supply and demand. Want a better deal, stop for gas before the last possible location before returning your vehicle. Or, probably just return it empty and pay the premium price for the rental agency to refill it.
As long as the pump price and any sign price are the same and visible while fueling, there shouldn't be an issue.
The worst I had was I pull up to a pump in PA that said "SELF SERV" and assumed that meant both sides of the pump, a guy came out to pump my gas from the building. Thinking this place was cool, he pumped the gas, and then found out the ONE half of ONE pump was full-service, and I was charged 30c more per gallon for the privilege.
During my last trip to Orlando, Alamo's price, if I agreed to it when I picked up the car, was about what it was over much of town.
I rent almost exclusively through Enterprise (though I was looking at a one-way rental to CA from OH and nearly fainted when their price was almost 3x the price of the other places). Usually, though, Enterprise is fair to other locations when returning to where you rented it. Plus, Enterprise has local offices, while the other places are generally airports.
I've always just brought it back to the level I rented it at. Generally, they give you about 1/8th variance in that, so I tend to peg it pretty close. Almost all new cars (since the 90s) seem to have about one full gallon still at E, and about 1 full gallon when the peg just starts to touch E. And on the F side, you usually have 1-2 full gallons before the gauge moves from F (unless it's one of those cars where the peg can go above or below the F or E, respectively.
Then it's just math. 16g tank means to move between the E and F is 12 real gallons, so about 3 gallons per quarter, with a slight weighting toward the high side of the tank (the arm usually rotates down rather than sliding straight up and down on a shaft), so the sensor starts at parallel to the ground, and as it goes down to E the sensor is straight up and down from the pump. Because of the shape of the tank, the sensor picks up the dropping gas line quite well once you get below any odd upper shapes and right before the floater touches bottom but still has gas sloshing around.
Personal sidenote: My 1987 F-150 gets about 11mpg on average, and one tank gets you about 200 miles (just over 18g tank), but it doesn't even MOVE from F until you've driven about 100 miles. Then it drops from F to E in about 100 miles, which is rather infuriating. But that's because the fuel pump was replaced with one that's not from that particular tank and the sensor picks up the level differently than it should.
Anyways, back to the rental cars. I don't think I've ever driven a rental car where I didn't go through at least one tank of gas, so I always check out how it fills up before returning it.
The last time I was offered pre-pay, I was warned by the rental company that the going rate for gas in the area was (some overstated price that made theirs look more reasonable). Luckily my GasBuddy app showed this to be untrue.
An educated consumer was not their best customer.
This gas station is so notorious, it's specifically mentioned in the UK government's travel advice for visitors to the USA:
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa/safety-and-security
There was a Chevron station (although I'm not exactly sure of the brand) on Apopka-Vineland Road, right next to Walt Disney World property which charged at least a dollar more per gallon. However, it seems to have been demolished, after visiting WDW last month.
This has been going on for years. A few years ago the county passed a law requiring all gas stations to post prices. Before that, the two gas stations nearest the airport charged these crazy prices and motorists didn't know about it until they got to the pump. Posted or not, people continue to pay it. You just can't fix stupid.
Quote from: formulanone on July 02, 2015, 07:13:08 PM
There was a Chevron station (although I'm not exactly sure of the brand) on Apopka-Vineland Road, right next to Walt Disney World property which charged at least a dollar more per gallon. However, it seems to have been demolished, after visiting WDW last month.
Funny thing about it, the gas stations actually on Disney property are usually priced at or below normal market prices. I would think they would be higher.
Quote from: RG407 on July 05, 2015, 09:40:51 PM
Funny thing about it, the gas stations actually on Disney property are usually priced at or below normal market prices. I would think they would be higher.
It's so you can spend more money at their overpriced stored and restaurants. :bigass:
Quote from: RG407 on July 05, 2015, 09:40:51 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 02, 2015, 07:13:08 PM
There was a Chevron station (although I'm not exactly sure of the brand) on Apopka-Vineland Road, right next to Walt Disney World property which charged at least a dollar more per gallon. However, it seems to have been demolished, after visiting WDW last month.
Funny thing about it, the gas stations actually on Disney property are usually priced at or below normal market prices. I would think they would be higher.
Compared to the prices we'd pay in Broward or Palm Beach counties, the WDW Hess Stations were actually a few cents per gallon cheaper.
Quote from: RG407 on July 05, 2015, 09:38:05 PM
Posted or not, people continue to pay it. You just can't fix stupid.
While I haven't used the right-near-MCO gas stations, I do this sometimes near other airports (I paid $4.24/gallon last September near SFO!), since it's on the company's dime. They'll pay for high-priced gas, but not the insane $8-9/gallon the rental car companies charge for absent-mindedness. That said, [Rental Car Company] let me off the hook a few times, although probably on error.
Quote from: Pete from Boston on June 28, 2015, 09:10:51 AM
The last time I was offered pre-pay, I was warned by the rental company that the going rate for gas in the area was (some overstated price that made theirs look more reasonable). Luckily my GasBuddy app showed this to be untrue.
An educated consumer was not their best customer.
I've had similar experiences. Never fell for it and was glad I didn't when I saw how much gas off-airport really was.
Quote from: formulanone on July 06, 2015, 08:43:32 PM
While I haven't used the right-near-MCO gas stations, I do this sometimes near other airports (I paid $4.24/gallon last September near SFO!), since it's on the company's dime. They'll pay for high-priced gas, but not the insane $8-9/gallon the rental car companies charge for absent-mindedness. That said, [Rental Car Company] let me off the hook a few times, although probably on error.
Best trick for SFO is being a Costco member. There's a Costco with gas station less than a mile from the rental car facility. It's typically 20-30c cheaper than anything in the area.
Every news outlet hates that gas station. When Wawa opened up down the street he had an opening day sale on gas. At the time the going average was 3.50 a gallon, but Wawa did it at 2.99. Every news agency in Orlando covered Wawa's opening to exploit the other station who charges way more than he should.
Even so the crook still would not feel ashamed and said that he will continue to sucker those who come to his pumps. What gets me is the stupid people who keep him in business as if everyone boycotted him he would not be able to stay open, but he is.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 13, 2015, 02:04:08 AM
Every news outlet hates that gas station. When Wawa opened up down the street he had an opening day sale on gas. At the time the going average was 3.50 a gallon, but Wawa did it at 2.99. Every news agency in Orlando covered Wawa's opening to exploit the other station who charges way more than he should.
Even so the crook still would not feel ashamed and said that he will continue to sucker those who come to his pumps. What gets me is the stupid people who keep him in business as if everyone boycotted him he would not be able to stay open, but he is.
I seem to remember (from GasBuddy) that it's something like 5.89-2.79-2.89, where the higher grades are priced normally.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 13, 2015, 02:04:08 AM
Every news outlet hates that gas station. When Wawa opened up down the street he had an opening day sale on gas. At the time the going average was 3.50 a gallon, but Wawa did it at 2.99. Every news agency in Orlando covered Wawa's opening to exploit the other station who charges way more than he should.
But it's not locals going to that gas station, it's tourists. Tourists aren't going to see the story on the local news. So what was the point?
If the going rate was $3.50, and a gas station has it for $2.99, that would be news almost anywhere, especially as Wawa continues to spread across the Florida landscape.
Since I had a few minutes, I looked this up. That Wawa opened in 2013, right? Today, the price is $2.49 a gallon. The stations down the road are charging $4.89 & $5.95. Yet, those stations remain open. So clearly people drive right by the Wawa, get to the very expensive stations, and still choose to get their gas there.
QuoteEven so the crook still would not feel ashamed and said that he will continue to sucker those who come to his pumps. What gets me is the stupid people who keep him in business as if everyone boycotted him he would not be able to stay open, but he is.
Again, they're tourists. Tourists that are returning their car to the airport. And I bet they are getting back to the airport with little time to spare. The gas stations owners are running a legit business, and capitalizing on people's rushing around. These tourists just spent a week in theme parks where they paid above market value for anything and everything all week long. Seeing that the Wawa is very close to the Airport and these competing stations, the tourists can easily turn around to get to that Wawa. Clearly, they aren't doing so. The only reason they wouldn't get their gas at Wawa would be if the pumps were all filled up with vehicles, and these people don't want to wait.
Quote from: 1 on July 13, 2015, 08:24:27 AM
I seem to remember (from GasBuddy) that it's something like 5.89-2.79-2.89, where the higher grades are priced normally.
Looking at Gasbuddy now, the higher grades are priced about the same at the one station: 5.95/5.97/5.99. At the other station, it only shows the regular price (4.89)
IMO overcharging people is never "legit business". Not morally.
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2015, 02:36:14 PM
IMO overcharging people is never "legit business". Not morally.
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2015, 02:36:14 PM
IMO overcharging people is never "legit business". Not morally.
So, what's the threshold between charging and overcharging? Got a percentage in mind?
I'm more of a qualitative person than quantitative..
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2015, 03:03:37 PM
I'm more of a qualitative person than quantitative..
Not if you're on this board, you're not.
Well, a legit business means that they are obeying the rules. Someone may not like the rules, but if they are playing by the rules, then it's perfectly legit.
In this case, let's say the gas station was told they have to display their price of regular gasoline for the public to see. Existing statutes will say how small or large that sign can be, how high that sign can be, etc. There's probably county/state right-of-way along the highway where the business can't put the sign. There are trees in front of the gas station, probably required by the town/county/state. A town can't require the business to do something that is otherwise illegal. So the business posts a sign, as required, within all the existing requirements of the town. If that sign isn't readable or barely readable from the road, that's not the business's problem. And the town/county/state is pretty much powerless to say anything else, because then they'll be voiding their own laws.
Morally...well, that's a whole nother debate. Is it moral to charge over twice what the competition is charging? Is it moral to charge nearly $2 for a bottle of water that costs pennies to manufacturer? Is it moral for a business to sell condoms to a young teenager? Etc...
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2015, 02:36:14 PM
IMO overcharging people is never "legit business". Not morally.
It's not overcharging if people are willing to pay it, and I don't see anything morally wrong with it as long as they comply with regulations on things like posting prices.
Quote from: RG407 on July 05, 2015, 09:38:05 PM
This has been going on for years. A few years ago the county passed a law requiring all gas stations to post prices. Before that, the two gas stations nearest the airport charged these crazy prices and motorists didn't know about it until they got to the pump. Posted or not, people continue to pay it. You just can't fix stupid.
A lot of times people are just sending it in with their corporate expense report or using a company credit card. That's one reason things associated with flying are overpriced -- a lot of the users aren't price-sensitive since "someone else" is paying the bill.
Quote from: Rothman on July 13, 2015, 03:11:29 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2015, 03:03:37 PM
I'm more of a qualitative person than quantitative..
Not if you're on this board, you're not.
It's not all numbers...there's auto routes. :P
Florida does have a state law against price gouging (http://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/5D2710E379EAD6BC85256F03006AA2C5?OpenDocument) but it's only in place when a State of Emergency is declared. It is also rather vague, using terms like "grossly exceeds" or "gross disparity", so it probably depends on how much trouble a plaintiff went through, and how much evidence they have to back their claim.
That said, since it was created in the wake of Hurricane Andrew (1992), I'm of the opinion it was to prevent violence and mayhem when the sole proprietor of food and water (or some place where large lines of people show up after a disaster), and a few psychotic folks used weapons in place of legal tender to complete their transactions. It has the potential to stave off unnecessary post-disaster strife; since Florida's a rather pro-business-owner state...I can't see it as something used to limit profits for long periods of time. Whether it actually has either effect is just as nebulous.
So a $5/gallon gasoline isn't really any different than buying the same brand of bottled beer at the grocery store for the equivalent of $1.25, getting it at the convenience store for $1.75, buying it at the local watering hole for $3, or in a dimly-lit nightclub in South Beach for $5...it's all in the demand for said good or service at that place and time.
Quote from: realjd on July 13, 2015, 03:41:03 PM
It's not overcharging if people are willing to pay it, and I don't see anything morally wrong with it as long as they comply with regulations on things like posting prices.
There have been times I've seen prices vary by a few cents due to mislabeling - I've moved onto another station based on principle, time permitting.
Quote from: GCrites80s on July 13, 2015, 03:48:15 PM
That's one reason things associated with flying are overpriced -- a lot of the users aren't price-sensitive since "someone else" is paying the bill.
That, and time-sensitivity. When you absolutely, positively have to arrive by Monday, then they know they have you by the wallet. A lack of available airline choices, options, or last-minute-changes do not help, either. The leisure traveler who can take all day to get there, on days other than Monday or Friday usually has a lot more flexibility, and if it's for an important event in one's life, you don't plan with razor-thin scheduling commitments.
Quote from: realjd on July 13, 2015, 03:41:03 PM
Quote from: vdeane on July 13, 2015, 02:36:14 PM
IMO overcharging people is never "legit business". Not morally.
It's not overcharging if people are willing to pay it, and I don't see anything morally wrong with it as long as they comply with regulations on things like posting prices.
That's business. It's supply and demand. There is no justification that you price your product or service at a certain percentage above your own cost. What if your product or service is used infrequently and you only sell 5 items a week that cost you $10 each to make. Would you be comfortable living on $25/week, when you know that the 5 people who want/need your product will pay $500 a piece simply because you have it in stock and thereby earn a living running your business?
Nobody was at the pumps last night. I gassed up at Wawa and he had a line at 12:30 AM, but no one was at the rip off Sun Station.
Yes its supply verses demand, but a few cents more yes, but a few dollars. Yes the people who stop there are ignorant, but we as a society have morals to protect. Plus volume selling, which is what Wawa does also brings in money too.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2015, 02:59:55 AM
Nobody was at the pumps last night. I gassed up at Wawa and he had a line at 12:30 AM, but no one was at the rip off Sun Station.
How many people are returning their cars at 12:30am to catch a 3am flight? I would think these stations get almost no business at night, because people aren't rushing to the airport at that time.
Report back at 12:30pm and let us know how busy they are.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2015, 02:59:55 AM
Nobody was at the pumps last night. I gassed up at Wawa and he had a line at 12:30 AM, but no one was at the rip off Sun Station.
Yes its supply verses demand, but a few cents more yes, but a few dollars. Yes the people who stop there are ignorant, but we as a society have morals to protect. Plus volume selling, which is what Wawa does also brings in money too.
But who decides how much markup is too much? You say a few cents vs a few dollars. I say it's his business, he can charge what he wants as long as he's not being deceitful about it. It's no different IMO than a stadium charging $10 for a hot dog or an airport bar charging $10 for a beer. And in this case, people aren't a captive audience; drivers are free to use other nearby stations if they don't want to pay the high prices he charges.
What boggles the mind is how folks who are driving rental vehicles can cut their time so short trying to return the car that they don't even bother to look at the price of the gas...I'm sorry, in a day and age when people will generally go out of their way to save ten cents a gallon why the hell would you pull up to a pump and pay that kind of money?
If they'd just spent an extra ten to fifteen minutes leaving a bit earlier to get to the rental place to find a gas station on the way that was charging the normal rate they wouldn't have to pay it.
That's stupidity...and they can pay for it.
That being said, I still think it's underhanded.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 15, 2015, 08:24:37 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2015, 02:59:55 AM
Nobody was at the pumps last night. I gassed up at Wawa and he had a line at 12:30 AM, but no one was at the rip off Sun Station.
How many people are returning their cars at 12:30am to catch a 3am flight? I would think these stations get almost no business at night, because people aren't rushing to the airport at that time.
Report back at 12:30pm and let us know how busy they are.
No, but Wawa was busy at that time. Considering that no one catches a flight at that time as you say and the truth of the matter is, Wawa was busy because they charge less and offer great food at the same time.
My point is that there is a line between just ordinary and extreme. I feel that he is extreme. I do respect his right as an individual to charge whatever he wants, but I disagree with his amount that he charges.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2015, 08:59:46 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 15, 2015, 08:24:37 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2015, 02:59:55 AM
Nobody was at the pumps last night. I gassed up at Wawa and he had a line at 12:30 AM, but no one was at the rip off Sun Station.
How many people are returning their cars at 12:30am to catch a 3am flight? I would think these stations get almost no business at night, because people aren't rushing to the airport at that time.
Report back at 12:30pm and let us know how busy they are.
No, but Wawa was busy at that time. Considering that no one catches a flight at that time as you say and the truth of the matter is, Wawa was busy because they charge less and offer great food at the same time.
My point is that there is a line between just ordinary and extreme. I feel that he is extreme. I do respect his right as an individual to charge whatever he wants, but I disagree with his amount that he charges.
For a late night meal or snack, there aren't many places that can beat Wawa's late night offerings...which is just about their entire menu. I'm disappointed they stopped displaying hot dogs after 10pm or so at many of their NJ/DE stores. In college, I made frequent 1am trips for a Meatball Shorti for a study break. No doubt those other gas stations don't have such offerings (I noticed on GSV that the one station had a Arby's that was closed up). Plus, people are inclined to get gas and food in one stop, and Wawa is a household name for those familiar with it. For those not familiar with it, there's the inevitable "Wawa?". What's a "Wawa?" (People don't really care that it's a small town in Pennsylvania near Philly) But like many businesses, when you constantly see their parking lot filled, eventually the doubters try it...and usually become hooked.
If there was a recent storm or hurricane and the station owners jacked up their prices to $6, they would be in trouble for gouging. But because that is their ordinary price, there's no gouging involved. In fact, many convenience store staples: chips, candy & sodas, have more of a markup percentage-wise than gasoline, even at those $5 and $6 inflated prices.
Quote from: DeaconG on July 15, 2015, 08:35:35 AM
What boggles the mind is how folks who are driving rental vehicles can cut their time so short trying to return the car that they don't even bother to look at the price of the gas...I'm sorry, in a day and age when people will generally go out of their way to save ten cents a gallon why the hell would you pull up to a pump and pay that kind of money?
If they'd just spent an extra ten to fifteen minutes leaving a bit earlier to get to the rental place to find a gas station on the way that was charging the normal rate they wouldn't have to pay it.
That's stupidity...and they can pay for it.
That being said, I still think it's underhanded.
Not everyone goes out of their way to save 10c per gallon. Personally, I'm not going to drive across town, or even go to a less convenient gas station, to save $1.50 on a tank of gas.
A few reasons why people would pay the significantly higher price at this station:
- Business travelers often don't even look at the price
- Convenience - if I'm just putting in a couple of gallons to top off the tank before I return the car, an extra dollar or so per gallon isn't necessarily enough to motivate me to go find a cheaper station farther up the road, especially if I'm unfamiliar with the area
- Time - If I'm in a hurry, our travel policy says to try to return the car with a full tank to avoid the $9/gal that the rental car company charges, so a station like this is preferred. If I'm really time crunched though I'll just let the rental car company fill it for $9/gal.
Leaving 15 minutes earlier isn't always an option. Often when traveling I'm left with the choice to rush to the airport after meetings get over and fly home that night, or spend an extra night and fly home in the morning. Usually I'd rather get home earlier. If meetings run late, or if I hit unexpected traffic (I'm obviously not usually familiar with local rush hour traffic patterns), then there are times where I just need to get to my gate quickly.
John Tesh once said on his radio show that traveling across town for cheaper gas does not really save you money being you have to burn more money in gas than you actually save. However, you be a bit surprised how many people will travel across town to save not only money on gas, but even at a cross town grocery store that offers less money saved for regular used grocer items.
People are blinded by savings that they do not see the real thing. Tesh says a lot of people train themselves to think this way as no one really pays attention to the numbers.
I'm not siding with the gas station owners at all, but if the majority of customers are international visitors, then $5-6 /gal prices is not an issue to them, as that is what many are paying in their homeland.
That being said, it is certainly a nasty thing to pull on unsuspecting foreigners.
Then again, to have to spend on average $200/person just to have a reasonable day's experience at WDW (parking, admission, food, beverage, souvenirs included) is robbery as well.
Quote from: thenetwork on July 15, 2015, 10:03:22 AM
I'm not siding with the gas station owners at all, but if the majority of customers are international visitors, then $5-6 /gal prices is not an issue to them, as that is what many are paying in their homeland.
That being said, it is certainly a nasty thing to pull on unsuspecting foreigners.
Then again, to have to spend on average $200/person just to have a reasonable day's experience at WDW (parking, admission, food, beverage, souvenirs included) is robbery as well.
Its funny how we just talked about WDW on another thread regarding PTC jacking up tolls in SE PA. Someone there mentioned the fact that Disney is voluntary thing, that people choose to pay the high prices.
Yes, the reasoning is the same with this particular station as maybe those who have money to burn to patronize Disney have it to burn for gas they could get way cheaper up the street at a better place are the ones who this crude business owner in business.
Plus I am sure its a mom and pop operation so they just want to make money to live comfortably rather than make a rich man in a suit behind a desk in some high rise office richer like corporate stations and stores. That is why they do not care about getting more customers if they can make do with the little they have, so jack it to them in the process.
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2015, 10:16:51 AM
so jack it to them in the process.
whoa man. You're clearly excited about someone charging too much for gas, but that might be going too far.
Quote from: spooky on July 15, 2015, 10:45:40 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2015, 10:16:51 AM
so jack it to them in the process.
whoa man. You're clearly excited about someone charging too much for gas, but that might be going too far.
Figure of speech. Not that all concerned what he charges, but it is the truth however.
Quote from: realjd on July 15, 2015, 09:35:17 AM
Quote from: DeaconG on July 15, 2015, 08:35:35 AM
What boggles the mind is how folks who are driving rental vehicles can cut their time so short trying to return the car that they don't even bother to look at the price of the gas...I'm sorry, in a day and age when people will generally go out of their way to save ten cents a gallon why the hell would you pull up to a pump and pay that kind of money?
If they'd just spent an extra ten to fifteen minutes leaving a bit earlier to get to the rental place to find a gas station on the way that was charging the normal rate they wouldn't have to pay it.
That's stupidity...and they can pay for it.
That being said, I still think it's underhanded.
Not everyone goes out of their way to save 10c per gallon. Personally, I'm not going to drive across town, or even go to a less convenient gas station, to save $1.50 on a tank of gas.
A few reasons why people would pay the significantly higher price at this station:
- Business travelers often don't even look at the price
- Convenience - if I'm just putting in a couple of gallons to top off the tank before I return the car, an extra dollar or so per gallon isn't necessarily enough to motivate me to go find a cheaper station farther up the road, especially if I'm unfamiliar with the area
- Time - If I'm in a hurry, our travel policy says to try to return the car with a full tank to avoid the $9/gal that the rental car company charges, so a station like this is preferred. If I'm really time crunched though I'll just let the rental car company fill it for $9/gal.
Leaving 15 minutes earlier isn't always an option. Often when traveling I'm left with the choice to rush to the airport after meetings get over and fly home that night, or spend an extra night and fly home in the morning. Usually I'd rather get home earlier. If meetings run late, or if I hit unexpected traffic (I'm obviously not usually familiar with local rush hour traffic patterns), then there are times where I just need to get to my gate quickly.
Since I have not flown in nearly 20 years and I don't fly on principle, I don't have the lateness problem. Ninety percent of my rentals are because I have a car in the shop and I need a vehicle to get back and forth to work with, so I'm never in a position to spend that kind of money on gas to return the vehicle, the other ten is when it's in the shop and I need to go on vacation and the shop screwed up their timetable.
So if you're using the excuse that your work requirements are such that you don't have the time to try to find cheaper gas; and folks are saying that it's caveat emptor when it comes to getting gas at these places and the owner has the right to charge whatever the commerce will bear, then the argument's closed.
Personally, I won't do it, but there are others who have no issue with it.
And so it goes.
Quote from: DeaconG on July 15, 2015, 11:27:40 AM
Since I have not flown in nearly 20 years and I don't fly on principle, I don't have the lateness problem.
What principle do you adhere to that would prevent you from flying?
Gasbuddy is a wonderful app. Even if someone is running late, they're going to have to get gas someplace.
And most people are fearful that they have to get gas at the gas station closest to the airport, even though they've had cars for the past 30 years where the needle never fell below F for the first 30 miles.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2015, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: DeaconG on July 15, 2015, 11:27:40 AM
Since I have not flown in nearly 20 years and I don't fly on principle, I don't have the lateness problem.
What principle do you adhere to that would prevent you from flying?
I refuse to give money to a business that's making money hand over fist while treating the average traveler as an afterthought. And I won't deal with TSA and their security theater. Also, "United breaks guitars".
Most of the places I need to go I can drive-and I don't have to rent a car/be at the mercy of others for transportation. If it means I don't get to go to other places, well...my heart's not broken, and life goes on.
Quote from: DeaconG on July 15, 2015, 12:07:15 PM
I refuse to give money to a business that's making money hand over fist while treating the average traveler as an afterthought. And I won't deal with TSA and their security theater. Also, "United breaks guitars".
Most of the places I need to go I can drive-and I don't have to rent a car/be at the mercy of others for transportation. If it means I don't get to go to other places, well...my heart's not broken, and life goes on.
You never have a desire to go OCONUS? Other than maybe a cruise to the Caribbean, you're basically limited to the continental US and Canada.
Quote from: DeaconG on July 15, 2015, 12:07:15 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2015, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: DeaconG on July 15, 2015, 11:27:40 AM
Since I have not flown in nearly 20 years and I don't fly on principle, I don't have the lateness problem.
What principle do you adhere to that would prevent you from flying?
I refuse to give money to a business that's making money hand over fist while treating the average traveler as an afterthought...
What's the "average traveler"?
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 15, 2015, 12:24:08 PM
What's the "average traveler"?
Possibly the 70-80% of the flying public who has no frequent flier status, and are granted zero perks unless they're up-sold to the the buyer. In return, limited returns on airline-created goofs, because they're not "high value customers".
Another words, exactly what I'm reminded of when have to fly something other than my preferred operating carrier of pressurized flying aluminum tubes.
Quote from: realjd on July 15, 2015, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: DeaconG on July 15, 2015, 12:07:15 PM
I refuse to give money to a business that's making money hand over fist while treating the average traveler as an afterthought. And I won't deal with TSA and their security theater. Also, "United breaks guitars".
Most of the places I need to go I can drive-and I don't have to rent a car/be at the mercy of others for transportation. If it means I don't get to go to other places, well...my heart's not broken, and life goes on.
You never have a desire to go OCONUS? Other than maybe a cruise to the Caribbean, you're basically limited to the continental US and Canada.
With my current financial status, I'd be lucky to get the cruise. Maybe in a few years and if TSA would ease up on the damn security theater I'd...why are you laughing? :-D
Quote from: formulanone on July 15, 2015, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 15, 2015, 12:24:08 PM
What's the "average traveler"?
Possibly the 70-80% of the flying public who has no frequent flier status, and are granted zero perks unless they're up-sold to the the buyer. In return, limited returns on airline-created goofs, because they're not "high value customers".
Huh. Makes me wonder about the definition of "average." The possible "70-80%" aren't frequent fliers, but there are very frequent fliers out there. Makes you wonder if the frequent fliers are actually closer to the average since they fly much more often.
If we're getting caught in pedantry, median traveler is probably more accurate, but you know what he meant.
I don't like the idea of flying either. You get crammed in with annoying people like sardines, the airlines treat non-business travelers like crap, there's the possibility of lost luggage, and you have to endure the TSA's sexual harassment and humiliation, and can't take basic necessities like toothpaste, shampoo/conditioner, and contact lens solution with you. No thanks.
Quote from: corco on July 15, 2015, 03:26:34 PM
If we're getting caught in pedantry, median traveler is probably more accurate, but you know what he meant.
Actually, I was trying to figure out if the average traveler is travelling for business, or for leisure.
Quote from: vdeane on July 15, 2015, 03:37:56 PM
I don't like the idea of flying either. You get crammed in with annoying people like sardines, the airlines treat non-business travelers like crap, there's the possibility of lost luggage, and you have to endure the TSA's sexual harassment and humiliation, and can't take basic necessities like toothpaste, shampoo/conditioner, and contact lens solution with you. No thanks.
The experience as an infrequent flyer really isn't that bad. It's not like the airlines are going out of their way to make it unpleasant for leisure travelers stuck in coach. The seats definitely aren't luxurious, but they're generally not uncomfortable either.
One of my favorite things about flying, even if I'm back in coach, is that I can check out from the world for a couple of hours. It gives me a chance to put on some music, load up a good book on my ipad, and not worry about being interrupted. Bonus if I'm not heading immediately to go meet a customer when we land and can have a couple of drinks.
Luggage can't be lost if you carry it on, which also saves on baggage fees. That does mean you need travel size toiletries though.
The TSA security checkpoint is what it is, and there's no helping it. I will say this though: unlike in some other countries, the TSA security checkpoint process is very well defined, so you at least know what to expect before you get there. It's still security theater nonsense, but at least it's predictable security theater nonsense. And they seem to have calmed down lately when it comes to some of their more controversial policies.
For anyone out there who hasn't flown yet and is apprehensive, I encourage you to give it a try. Even if you do find it uncomfortable and terrible, the flights are only a few hours long. And it's very cool to be able to wake up in the morning in Florida and a few hours later be having lunch in Los Angeles, or heading to the airport in the evening and waking up the next morning in London.
Quote from: Rothman on July 15, 2015, 03:21:51 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 15, 2015, 02:39:21 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 15, 2015, 12:24:08 PM
What's the "average traveler"?
Possibly the 70-80% of the flying public who has no frequent flier status, and are granted zero perks unless they're up-sold to the the buyer. In return, limited returns on airline-created goofs, because they're not "high value customers".
Huh. Makes me wonder about the definition of "average." The possible "70-80%" aren't frequent fliers, but there are very frequent fliers out there. Makes you wonder if the frequent fliers are actually closer to the average since they fly much more often.
I base this on a pure guesstimate/SWAG: I'm at the second-highest FF status (Platinum) with Delta, which according to the paperwork they send me each year, which they say is 2% of their customer base. I'd imagine the highest (Diamond) is probably 0.5-1.0%, and the Gold and Silver might only be 10-15%. Factor another 10-15% which might be above-yearly-average fliers (those with 4-6 flights a year...not enough for status, but collecting miles/points) on that airline. If you fly on a Monday or Friday, there's many more frequent fliers, since we're the business travelers that keep the airlines in the black. But on most other days, there aren't nearly as many, just a tiny handful of Premiums get on board first....the rest is mostly leisure travelers, although that usually depends on the destination (or if it's from an airline hub) and time of year. So I base the 70% number of "average flying public" on those experiences.
TSA is a nuisance, but depending on your airport, it's not always all that bad. Small airports tend to handle things with a bit more class and/or less fuss. Bigger ones (or larger checkpoints that are busy) seem to have to bark orders and and I think that's because the added noise, additional goings-on with so many travelers waiting around creates a little more commotion in the lines and that could be a potential distraction to the blue shirts. Plus, they can be knobs about the whole thing, that's kind of their choice.
Since we're talking about flying, or not flying, I'm a non-flyer. I've never flown and I don't ever plan to. I've been in a plane once, in a small general aviation aircraft about 30 years ago, and I was a bit nervous, but I probably would do that again if given the chance.
But in terms of flying commercially, it's too big of a PITA for me to even consider. You're limited in how much stuff you can take, and I tend to travel heavy (more clothes than I need because I'm bad for spilling stuff on myself; a laptop and tablet; my camera; my own toiletries because I'm no fan of what the hotels/motels give you; a cooler with plenty of Diet Coke along for the journey), and even if I was flying somewhere to rent a car, I'd need to take my GPS and radar detector. And there's the TSA nonsense.
Plus, I live 90-plus minutes from the nearest commercial airport (Lexington), and flights out of there are so expensive a lot of people drive on to Louisville or Cincinnati (another 90-minutes).
Some of my colleagues who are going to TransComm in Annapolis in September are flying. I wouldn't even consider it. Even if I flew out of Lexington, I'd have to leave here 3 1/2 hours before my flight to account for the drive, parking, lugging my stuff to the terminal, and going through all the checks. Not to mention I'd be driving west to eventually go east. By driving, by the time you tick off that 3 1/2 hours, I'm already well past Charleston on I-79. Plus I don't have to arrange transportation to Annapolis when I land at BWI, and that's assuming there's a direct flight and I don't have to go to BWI via Atlanta or Pittsburgh.
It's only about 1,100 miles round-trip to Annapolis. I did the math and the fuel cost is only going to be about $130. Doubt I could fly for that rate, even with having to spend an extra night after the conference ends to keep from dragging in at midnight and spending the last four hours slogging through deer-infested WV and northeastern KY in the dark.
And yes, the lost luggage possibility and the near-certainty that a crash would be fatal are big factors in my desire to stay on the ground.
For me, the choice of flight comes down to price and convenience. When I was single, the formula was simple: Unless time-constrained, drive everywhere east of the Mississippi and consider flying west of the Mississippi. Strictly speaking, it was only to airports west of the Mississippi from here in New York where the cost of airfares and road trips started to become competitive.
Now, of course, I've got kids and a wife. Having to buy multiple tickets throws that whole formula off and makes driving even more reasonable cost-wise -- again, unless it's time-sensitive (like heading out to visit family in Washington state).
But yeah, anyone who thinks coach is truly comfortable is kidding themselves. The fact that airlines can get away with putting in reclining seats without leaving adequate room for the person behind you is simply angering.
Still, I agree with whoever pointed out the simply miraculous time we live in. I remember one day where I was driving around Astoria, OR in the morning and by the night I was driving around Albany, NY. One day! Less than 24 hours! Still think that ability is incredible and I'm glad to be around when it exists (rather than those years of wagon trains mushing their way along the Mormon Trail).
Or, as Louis C.K. put it:
'I had to sit on the runway for 40 minutes.' Oh my god, really? What happened then, did you fly through the air like a bird, incredibly? Did you soar into the clouds, impossibly? Did you partake in the miracle of human flight and then land softly on giant tires that you couldn't even conceive how they f***ing put air in them?...You're sitting in a chair in the sky! You're like a Greek myth right now.
Quote from: hbelkins on July 15, 2015, 09:15:21 PM
Plus, I live 90-plus minutes from the nearest commercial airport (Lexington), and flights out of there are so expensive a lot of people drive on to Louisville or Cincinnati (another 90-minutes).
Heh. When I was a kid, my parents would put me on a plane to visit my grandparents for some time in the summers (the ones I keep talking about in Floyd County). So, I'd be flying into Cincinnati or Lexington (cost-dependent like you said!), my aunt who lived in Winchester would come pick me up and then -- as my mother would say when she would follow suit --
came the longest part of the trip -- driving down the Mountain Parkway -- past its end along KY 114 to US 23/460 and then KY 80 to KY 122 and down into Wheelwright. A week or so later, my parents would drive down, pick me up and drive us back to New England.
Good times.
Flying isn't/wasn't so bad when I was single. But then when a $200 R/T ticket is now multiplied by spouse & kids (if applicable), then you better be flying somewhere you cannot drive to (Europe, Hawaii, etc...) otherwise, I will drive.
I remember in the late 80s, there were so many price wars going on in the midwest, you could fly TWA out of Detroit to Chicago, Indy or St. Louis for only $19 each way. It was far cheaper for my sister to come home from college in Indianapolis to fly to Detroit, I drive her back to my place in Toledo, then my folks would get her from there back home to Cleveland.
...except she decided to fly into Detroit CITY airport instead of flying into Detroit METRO airport, which added another hour of driving for me. :(
Ah yes, those early days of deregulation. Little did we know that those cheap prices would only resolve into the absurd amounts we pay now.
Following up on H.B.'s comments:
My main reasons for preferring to drive are:
-- not dealing with TSA, etc. at the airport, which guarantees a few hours of wasted time
-- not having to organize all my stuff to fit it into luggage without forgetting something -- much easier to just throw everything I might need in my trunk
-- having my own vehicle at my destination
Usually, I'll fly only to the Pacific time zone and points west, or to the Caribbean, Europe, or roadless parts of Canada. But I did some flying on business to locations as close as Pittsburgh or North Carolina. My employer would not indulge me on taking extra time to drive to my destinations, or I was traveling with people who can't stand highway travel even if I do the driving.
Those business trips included one to Orlando, but I didn't have to deal with gas on that trip. I forget whether we used taxis, or a rental car that my colleague returned to the airport the day after I returned home.
Outside of the TSA's often conflicting requirements (ie: When my wife and I travel, sometimes we go up to the podium together to have our IDs checked; other times we're told only one can be at the podium at a time), and the whole gotta-take-the-shoes-off thing, TSA is a 5 minute hassle. I probably spent more time finding a place to park. If someone has never flown, I chalk it up to them listening to everyone else's horror stories; which many times they were told from another friend, and so on.
BTW, TSA have stated the lines will probably get longer. TSA horrendously failed a test (missing over 90% of items that are supposed to be caught). So they're going to go a bit slower, do some more wanding of passengers, etc.
Quote from: Rothman on July 16, 2015, 07:58:50 AM
Ah yes, those early days of deregulation. Little did we know that those cheap prices would only resolve into the absurd amounts we pay now.
Actually, not even close. Deregulation prices were quite high. Per this site: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-airline-ticket-prices-fell-50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/, adjusting for inflation, a ticket that costs approximate $350 today would have cost about $600 in 1980.
Now, are there other sites to prove the opposite? http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2014/05/don-t-believe-the-airfare-spin-cost-to-travel-is.html tries to do that. Until you look at the tallying graphic: It shows a single one-way flight, non-refundable fares, costing $97 in 1975 and $204 today. But by using one of the many inflation calculators available, that same ticket would cost $426 today. They don't show that in the article. And then they try to add on a whole bunch of fees to today's price that most people wouldn't pay, such as a change ticket fee, standby fee, 2nd bag fee, excess-bag fee, etc. Even the refundable fare shown is about equivalent to today's price, including inflation.
To further derail this thread:
I generally dislike flying for multiple reasons, the main being that seats on airplanes are now way too small to accompany my 6'2 frame (perhaps also the reason why I enjoyed it more when I was younger). Unless I'm in an aisle seat, I feel like I'm being packed in like a sardine, especially when I put the tray table down. Another reason is the fact that air travel involves a lot of just waiting around for things to happen, which stresses the heck out of impatient people like me and my father. I also dislike the fact that one has essentially no control over when one leaves or arrives, which is fine on short-haul trips on subways and buses, but can be quite stressful if a plane being late puts making the next connection in time in jeopardy.
Given that up until recently most of my transcontinental travel has been with my parents, who are solidly against driving further than 500 miles, I generally fly to most destinations west of 85W. However, more recent travels have been by myself (or with friends) and have involved driving distances of over 800 miles.
To get this thread sort of back on track:
While I feel that the gas station in question's pricing scheme is somewhat underhanded, it also represents a classic case of supply and demand. Tourists are obviously willing to pay the inflated price for the convenience (as evidenced by the GMSV images showing a number of people filling up at these stations), otherwise the station(s) would have gone out of business or lowered its prices a long time ago. The reasons as to why they will pay 2-3$ more per gallon despite normally-priced stations being relatively close by have been discussed earlier, and I think boil down to a combination of A: business travellers who are crunched for time and don't foot the bill (but don't want to pay the even more ridiculous rate charged by the rental companies), B: tourists who have money to burn, but aren't familiar with the area and don't see the well-hidden prices until it's too late, and C: those who don't want to wait at the (presumably) busy Wawa and are willing to pay for the convenience.
Quote from: Thing 342 on July 16, 2015, 12:02:55 PM...I think boil down to a combination of A: business travellers who are crunched for time and don't foot the bill (but don't want to pay the even more ridiculous rate charged by the rental companies), B: tourists who have money to burn, but aren't familiar with the area and don't see the well-hidden prices until it's too late, and C: those who don't want to wait at the (presumably) busy Wawa and are willing to pay for the convenience.
Also, D: there's a lot of foreign tourists in Orlando who are used to the equivalents of $7-8/gallon gasoline, so $5.50 is a comparative bargain.
One of the owners of the nearby ~2.79 stations (or one of us) could put up several signs that say "GAS - $2.79/GAL - 2 MILES - TURN RIGHT" (with accurate pricing, distance, and directions).
Quote from: 1 on July 16, 2015, 01:30:52 PM
One of the owners of the nearby ~2.79 stations (or one of us) could put up several signs that say "GAS - $2.79/GAL - 2 MILES - TURN RIGHT" (with accurate pricing, distance, and directions).
No you can't. And no they can't. There's right of way issues, billboard issues, and advertising issues.
Quote from: 1 on July 16, 2015, 01:30:52 PM
One of the owners of the nearby ~2.79 stations (or one of us) could put up several signs that say "GAS - $2.79/GAL - 2 MILES - TURN RIGHT" (with accurate pricing, distance, and directions).
Not if there are silly zoning restrictions concerning signs or laws/rules/ordinances about signs away from the actual business.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 16, 2015, 02:27:34 PM
Quote from: 1 on July 16, 2015, 01:30:52 PM
One of the owners of the nearby ~2.79 stations (or one of us) could put up several signs that say "GAS - $2.79/GAL - 2 MILES - TURN RIGHT" (with accurate pricing, distance, and directions).
No you can't. And no they can't. There's right of way issues, billboard issues, and advertising issues.
Or do like every other store does and hire a minimum wage sign holder to stand on the edge of the street.
Quote from: realjd on July 15, 2015, 04:31:46 PM
The TSA security checkpoint is what it is, and there's no helping it. I will say this though: unlike in some other countries, the TSA security checkpoint process is very well defined, so you at least know what to expect before you get there. It's still security theater nonsense, but at least it's predictable security theater nonsense.
Except it isn't all that predictable. A month ago I was taking a minor to the gate for her flight at SeaTac. We did not have to take our shoes off or take any but the largest things out of our pockets and were through security in five minutes.
A week ago I went to the gate to pick her up again. We're back to taking our shoes off and taking every little thing out of our pockets right down to the parking receipt. That and all the checkpoints but one being closed meant security took half an hour.
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 16, 2015, 09:03:53 AM
Outside of the TSA's often conflicting requirements (ie: When my wife and I travel, sometimes we go up to the podium together to have our IDs checked; other times we're told only one can be at the podium at a time), and the whole gotta-take-the-shoes-off thing, TSA is a 5 minute hassle. I probably spent more time finding a place to park. If someone has never flown, I chalk it up to them listening to everyone else's horror stories; which many times they were told from another friend, and so on.
BTW, TSA have stated the lines will probably get longer. TSA horrendously failed a test (missing over 90% of items that are supposed to be caught). So they're going to go a bit slower, do some more wanding of passengers, etc.
Quote from: Rothman on July 16, 2015, 07:58:50 AM
Ah yes, those early days of deregulation. Little did we know that those cheap prices would only resolve into the absurd amounts we pay now.
Actually, not even close. Deregulation prices were quite high. Per this site: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-airline-ticket-prices-fell-50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/, adjusting for inflation, a ticket that costs approximate $350 today would have cost about $600 in 1980.
Now, are there other sites to prove the opposite? http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2014/05/don-t-believe-the-airfare-spin-cost-to-travel-is.html tries to do that. Until you look at the tallying graphic: It shows a single one-way flight, non-refundable fares, costing $97 in 1975 and $204 today. But by using one of the many inflation calculators available, that same ticket would cost $426 today. They don't show that in the article. And then they try to add on a whole bunch of fees to today's price that most people wouldn't pay, such as a change ticket fee, standby fee, 2nd bag fee, excess-bag fee, etc. Even the refundable fare shown is about equivalent to today's price, including inflation.
I suppose I was wrong about "early," but fare wars were certainly a result of deregulation, causing the glory days of 1990-1993, when airfare was indeed more affordable than it is now.
Evidently, we need more competition along routes and more multmarket contact between carriers to bring back those days of yore (http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Projects/BPEA/1996-micro/1996_bpeamicro_morrison.PDF").
Quote from: Rothman on July 16, 2015, 05:04:37 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 16, 2015, 09:03:53 AM
Outside of the TSA's often conflicting requirements (ie: When my wife and I travel, sometimes we go up to the podium together to have our IDs checked; other times we're told only one can be at the podium at a time), and the whole gotta-take-the-shoes-off thing, TSA is a 5 minute hassle. I probably spent more time finding a place to park. If someone has never flown, I chalk it up to them listening to everyone else's horror stories; which many times they were told from another friend, and so on.
BTW, TSA have stated the lines will probably get longer. TSA horrendously failed a test (missing over 90% of items that are supposed to be caught). So they're going to go a bit slower, do some more wanding of passengers, etc.
Quote from: Rothman on July 16, 2015, 07:58:50 AM
Ah yes, those early days of deregulation. Little did we know that those cheap prices would only resolve into the absurd amounts we pay now.
Actually, not even close. Deregulation prices were quite high. Per this site: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-airline-ticket-prices-fell-50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/, adjusting for inflation, a ticket that costs approximate $350 today would have cost about $600 in 1980.
Now, are there other sites to prove the opposite? http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/blog/seat2B/2014/05/don-t-believe-the-airfare-spin-cost-to-travel-is.html tries to do that. Until you look at the tallying graphic: It shows a single one-way flight, non-refundable fares, costing $97 in 1975 and $204 today. But by using one of the many inflation calculators available, that same ticket would cost $426 today. They don't show that in the article. And then they try to add on a whole bunch of fees to today's price that most people wouldn't pay, such as a change ticket fee, standby fee, 2nd bag fee, excess-bag fee, etc. Even the refundable fare shown is about equivalent to today's price, including inflation.
I suppose I was wrong about "early," but fare wars were certainly a result of deregulation, causing the glory days of 1990-1993, when airfare was indeed more affordable than it is now.
Evidently, we need more competition along routes and more multmarket contact between carriers to bring back those days of yore (http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Projects/BPEA/1996-micro/1996_bpeamicro_morrison.PDF").
Unfortunately, those cheap rates and cut throat competition led to hemorrhaging money and reducing services to try to stay in business. As they consolidated, the prices rose as there was less competition to pull down the prices.
A correction, but one that was quite drastic.
On the topic of flying, I've flown 3 times. Twice round trips (once to Phoenix and once to Las Vegas) and once a one-way flight to Santa Ana (much cheaper and easier than LAX). Because I work for myself, time constraints aren't really a problem in the decision to fly or drive.
The two round-trips were time sensitive. Once I booked my flight two hours before it left. The second, was I was working an office job and couldn't afford to take the time off to drive from PA to Vegas. However, now, that's not the case. The one-way trip to CA was on account of my ex-wife, as she couldn't get off work for more than 10 days. So, we flew out to LA and then drove home through Vegas, the National Parks of Utah, Monument Valley, Moab, Dinosaur Nat'l Monument, Rocky Mountain N.P., and then across unclinched counties of Nebraska, Iowa, and Illinois.
Now? I don't think I'd ever purposefully not drive. My fiance has a job as loosely scheduled as mine, and can make arrangements to drive anywhere there are roads. Plus, she flew a lot as a kid, teenager, young adult, that she LOVES to drive places and see the sights. Take the back roads, sight see, meander, etc.
Yeah, driving purposefully is overrated.