Some notes from a trip to Lawton, Duncan, and Ardmore, OK:
Construction is underway along a four-mile stretch of Interstate 44 through Lawton. From Expect construction zone delays in Oklahoma (http://newsok.com/expect-construction-zone-delays/article/3398632) : Interstate 44 is narrowed to one lane in each direction in Lawton in Comanche County for surface and bridge work. All ramps will remain open.
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What is up with these span-wire supported overheads! :wow:
U.S. 281 Business is signed from Interstate 44, but there were no shields posted along the route between the north end and Lee Boulevard, nor were there any shields at the intersection with Oklahoma 7. Justin told us about the Central Mall in Lawton and how the original downtown was bulldozed for its construction in the 1970s. U.S. 281 Business travels around the mall's entrances to the north, east and south, but is not signed there either. Further north construction along the 2nd Street portion of the route north of Gore Avenue resulted in a full closure of the highway.
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When did the Duncan bypass open to traffic? There was just one sign for the route along Oklahoma 7 eastbound, and the bypass has no route number. Looking at it on aerials, it appears that right of way exists for possible diamond interchanges along what is otherwise a super-two expressway.
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Four-laning of U.S. 70 is underway from the Carter/Jefferson County line east to where the current four-lane portion ends.
Still a few circle shields for Oklahoma 199 posted at A Street SW and North Washington Street in Ardmore. Is there a gap in the state maintenance for Oklahoma 199? The route was fully signed through to the junction with U.S. 77 along eastbound, but once the highway reached E Street SW, reassurance shields were replaced with "TO" trailblazers through to Broadway.
that is a very old Oklahoma standard. Leave it to me to be suddenly unable to find the photo of the gantry that looks like that with a black guide sign. I remember it had outline shields: US-66, and a state route in a square.
Found an almost-exact kill date for the Riverside Expressway in Tulsa: 12-12-1972; the project was dropped to keep parts of the Inner Dispersal Loop from possibly getting killed by the courts. Source article is "Tusla Riverside Project Gets Axe After Long Battle." The Ada Evening News, 12-12-1972. There's an identical article on the same date in the Lawton Constitution.
I noticed those overheads a couple years ago when I was through there, but never got a good photo (keep meaning to go back).
Business 281 is poorly signed in Lawton. I guess no one is expected to drive through town.
Lawton also seems to the the capital of garbage dumps motels... especially along Cache Rd.
On I-44 East, Business U.S. 281 is signed on the 1-mile advance sign, but is not signed on the sign at the exit itself. This happened sometime between September 2008 & January 2010.
Before & after pictures of the sign at the exit:
September 2008: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/3136398488_d5702e57ae_o.jpg
January 2010: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2711/4241970743_780ce1e2fe_b.jpg
Riverside Freeway would have been a disaster.
It looks like ODOT is going to install wrong way detection systems on some sections of major interstates similar to what Arizona and New Mexico has done:
https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-transportation-officials-project-wrong-way-crash/41891405#
Figured this thread's first page would be a good place to ask this:
Which turnpikes in Oklahoma still accept cash, and which ones do not? I would presume that they all accept PikePass, TxTag, and EZTag.
Quote from: Alex on September 07, 2009, 12:04:39 AM
Some notes from a trip to Lawton, Duncan, and Ardmore, OK:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/ok-007_eb_at_duncan_byp.jpg) (http://www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/ok-007_eb_at_duncan_byp.jpg)
When did the Duncan bypass open to traffic? There was just one sign for the route along Oklahoma 7 eastbound, and the bypass has no route number. Looking at it on aerials, it appears that right of way exists for possible diamond interchanges along what is otherwise a super-two expressway.
The funds for the Duncan Bypass were procured by Rep. Jari Askins back in the late 1990's. As noted, the RoW was purchased so it could be converted to a full freeway with 4 lanes. The intersections with Bois d'Arc and Beech have already had grade separations added. The Elk Ave intersection is on the 8 Year plan to be grade separated. So is Osage Road. Not sure why they skipped over Plato Rd and Camelback Rd.
The southern extension from 27th St south was added a few years ago. Bobby5280 might disagree but I've seen no formal plans to extend the bypass north around the west side of Marlow.
Quote from: CoreySamson on November 09, 2022, 01:15:09 AM
Figured this thread's first page would be a good place to ask this:
Which turnpikes in Oklahoma still accept cash, and which ones do not? I would presume that they all accept PikePass, TxTag, and EZTag.
IIRC, the urban turnpikes (Kilpatrick, Creek, Kickapoo) are now all-electronic, while the high-traffic Turner and Will Rogers still take cash and aren't expected to convert to AET for a couple more years.
Someone more familiar can correct me if any of that is outdated. The Indian Nation definitely accepted cash when I drove on it a few months ago.
Having driven on the turnpikes in Oklahoma last year and run out of change in the process, it would have been nice if Oklahoma had joined the civilized world and used EZPass...
Quote from: rte66manBobby5280 might disagree but I've seen no formal plans to extend the bypass north around the west side of Marlow.
ODOT had plans for an extension to dovetail the bypass into US-81 in Marlow. IIRC that plan got shelved, perhaps permanently, due to local opposition in Marlow.
Quote from: CoreySamsonWhich turnpikes in Oklahoma still accept cash, and which ones do not? I would presume that they all accept PikePass, TxTag, and EZTag.
I know the H.E. Bailey Turnpike is all cash-free. Now OTA just has to remodel the damn toll plazas in Newcastle and Walters to allow traffic to be free-flowing on four lanes.
As for interoperability PikePass works with Kansas' KTAG and works on all the toll roads in Texas, with still the possible exception of the DFW Airport Parkway. I remember there being a hold-up on that one for some weird reason.
Quote from: algorerhythmsHaving driven on the turnpikes in Oklahoma last year and run out of change in the process, it would have been nice if Oklahoma had joined the civilized world and used EZPass...
I don't know how much different the RFID tag technology is in the EZ Pass transponders compared to those used by PikePass. Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas is a pretty huge block for interoperable toll roads though.
In order to have nation-wide toll tag interoperability the government may have to get involved and force ALL toll agencies to adopt a new tag standard so every agency feels the same pain. Right now it's a tug of war between certain large agencies wanting everyone else to switch to their standard while they suffer no cost. It's bullshit. And that's why hardly any progress is being made on interoperability.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 09, 2022, 05:14:18 PM
As for interoperability PikePass works with Kansas' KTAG and works on all the toll roads in Texas, with still the possible exception of the DFW Airport Parkway. I remember there being a hold-up on that one for some weird reason.
I do want to point out that, even though they are technically on roads in Texas, the toll booths at the Mexican border do not accept PikePass, nor do they accept TxTag.
The border bridges are a mixed bag when it comes to technology. The Laredo bridges accept Laredo Trade Tag and eGo, Eagle Pass and some of the RGV crossings accept HID proximity cards, Mission and Hidalgo accept something called EZCrossBridge TollTag, etc... A lot of crossings accept IAVE on the Mexican side, but not on the US side.
Quote from: algorerhythms on November 09, 2022, 09:33:14 AM
Having driven on the turnpikes in Oklahoma last year and run out of change in the process, it would have been nice if Oklahoma had joined the civilized world and used EZPass...
Oklahoma is compatible with its neighbors Texas and Kansas. My TollTag (NTTA) works just fine there. EZ pass is overall older technology and it is they that need to progress into the (civilized) 21st Century.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 07, 2009, 12:26:34 AM
Leave it to me to be suddenly unable to find the photo of the gantry that looks like that with a black guide sign. I remember it had outline shields: US-66, and a state route in a square.
This?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52522845205_e94e1bedfd.jpg)
Those old overhead sign panels are at least attached to a horizontal pole. Those old signs on Fort Sill Blvd in Lawton were hanging by wires.
BTW, either the City of Lawton or ODOT removed that old sign structure a couple or so years ago. Here's a Street View image of the replacement:
https://www.google.com/maps/@34.6199594,-98.4045857,3a,75y,354.81h,94.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA-eMLRygrNDlcJ3wztmsxw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
https://www.flickr.com/photos/54480415@N08/shares/2z88q7G055
Opened originally as the Glass House Restaurant is now the Vinita Service area on the Will Rogers Turnpike Spanning like an Illinois Tollway Oasis housing a Subway and McDonalds Restaurant.
That I-44 turnpike plaza near Vinita, OK went through a major remodel (or a complete re-build, I can't remember for certain) just a few years ago. I remember stopping at that plaza when I was a kid back in the 1980's. It was pretty trippy to be able to eat a Big Mac while watching traffic whizzing below the restaurant.
I don't know if this is true, but supposedly at one time the McDonald's restaurant in that service plaza was the world's largest McDonald's location. That's most certainly not the case now. The current store is much smaller. In the past I wonder if they were including all the floor space upstairs as the McDonald's seating area to get that "world's largest" claim.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 19, 2022, 02:56:41 PM
That I-44 turnpike plaza near Vinita, OK went through a major remodel (or a complete re-build, I can't remember for certain) just a few years ago. I remember stopping at that plaza when I was a kid back in the 1980's. It was pretty trippy to be able to eat a Big Mac while watching traffic whizzing below the restaurant.
I don't know if this is true, but supposedly at one time the McDonald's restaurant in that service plaza was the world's largest McDonald's location. That's most certainly not the case now. The current store is much smaller. In the past I wonder if they were including all the floor space upstairs as the McDonald's seating area to get that "world's largest" claim.
It was pretty large; I remember stopping there several times on trips with family to Branson in the 70s and 80s.
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/traffic-advisories/2023/sign-project-impacts-traffic-on-i-40--i-235--expect-travel-delay.html
ODOT has begun working on replacing signs and gantries on I-235 between the I-40 junction and N. 23rd Street as well as I-40 between Morgan Road and Portland Avenue.
Relevant project file: https://www.odot.org/contracts/a2022/plans2210/192_2210_HSIPG-255F(581)TR_3579504/0000-3579504-FULLFILE.pdf
The plans look great–let's see if Action Safety can manage to actually follow them.
https://goo.gl/maps/C9ACt5gCG3GW8Agj9
What's up with the out of sequence exit numbers on I-44 at the Creek Turnpike?
Those aren't the exit numbers used by I-44. They look like the ones for US412 measuring from the end of the Cherokee Turnpike near Locust Grove. However, that means they run from east to west, which is the opposite of the interstate system.
UPDATE:
Measured that distance in GE. It's only 25 miles or so.
Quote from: roadman65 on February 28, 2023, 11:54:09 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/C9ACt5gCG3GW8Agj9
What's up with the out of sequence exit numbers on I-44 at the Creek Turnpike?
The mile markers for the Creek start at 0 at the I-44 interchange in Sapulpa and increase going east; it uses those markers for that section of I-44 that was built to connect to it and avoid that stupid three highway left-handed merge in Catoosa,
Quote from: will_e_777 on March 01, 2023, 03:02:48 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on February 28, 2023, 11:54:09 AM
https://goo.gl/maps/C9ACt5gCG3GW8Agj9
What's up with the out of sequence exit numbers on I-44 at the Creek Turnpike?
The mile markers for the Creek start at 0 at the I-44 interchange in Sapulpa and increase going east; it uses those markers for that section of I-44 that was built to connect to it and avoid that stupid three highway left-handed merge in Catoosa,
Trust OTA to eff up by not putting the Exit numbers on the BGSs
Yep, they're Creek Turnpike exit numbers. Pine Street is exit 35. No idea how numbering it this way makes any degree of sense, considering the Will Rogers southern terminus (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1518897,-95.7323895,3a,26.8y,228.92h,85.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sf2fJcgY17yEnVjmCoGAlIA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) is clearly marked south of that interchange and well into what plebes would consider the Creek Turnpike.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2023, 10:20:09 PM
Relevant project file: https://www.odot.org/contracts/a2022/plans2210/192_2210_HSIPG-255F(581)TR_3579504/0000-3579504-FULLFILE.pdf
The plans look great–let's see if Action Safety can manage to actually follow them.
That is always a big "if" in this state. :D
A few observations:
- I'm not a big fan of "Lawton - Dallas" on one line on the top left sign on page 51. Reminds me of some signs on the Kickapoo Turnpike.
- This appears to show the reroute of OK 3 away from I-44 north of I-40 (some of these signs are already in place on I-40 East); wonder if there will be OK 3 assurance shields added to I-40? This project appears to be focusing mainly on large signage and not assurance shields.
- Fort Smith is spelled out instead of using the usual "Ft Smith" (pages 57, 59, 65)
- Didn't know US 62 was a north-south highway in Oklahoma like it is in Pennsylvania & New York (see pages 59 & 61)
- The random "Yukon - Exit 5 Miles" overhead sign, which has been there in some form for decades on I-40 West at Rockwell, is going away (page 78)
- Glad to see one extra sign indicating the "exit only" right lane on I-235 South at N 6th Street (page 80). Currently, the only sign indicating "exit only" is at the actual exit so there are always last-second merges.
Quote from: okroads on March 01, 2023, 10:12:22 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 16, 2023, 10:20:09 PM
Relevant project file: https://www.odot.org/contracts/a2022/plans2210/192_2210_HSIPG-255F(581)TR_3579504/0000-3579504-FULLFILE.pdf
The plans look great–let's see if Action Safety can manage to actually follow them.
- Didn't know US 62 was a north-south highway in Oklahoma like it is in Pennsylvania & New York (see pages 59 & 61)
Very inconsistent. We all know US62 is an E-W highway. I believe ODOT just got lazy and didn't want to add another directional. They now join OTA, who has flat-out refused to change the "South US62" signs on NB 44 approaching Exit 106. They have been that way for at least 12 years.
Significant lengths of the Turnpike system will be raising from 75 mph to 80 mph.
This includes I-44 between Lawton and Oklahoma City (H.E. Bailey Turnpike), US-412 (the entire Cimarron Turnpike) between I-35 and US-64, the Cimarron Turnpike spur near Stillwater, and the SH-351 Muskogee Turnpike between Muskogee and I-40. A number of these areas have recently had their grassy raised medians replaced by cable guardrail, allowing the higher speeds safely.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/speed-limits-to-increase-to-80-mph-on-two-area-turnpikes/article_ff0d1f76-d331-11ed-896f-cbb6d621dca5.html
Hopefully the bump-up takes effect before I drive the HE Bailey next, which will be early summer.
OTA April Commission Meeting Agenda
https://pikepass.com/pdf/Banner%20information_agendas%20for%2004-04-2023%20Board%20Meeting.pdf
pp 55-59 imply the changes will take place immediately after approval. Not sure how quickly they can change the signs though.
The H.E. Bailey Turnpike (I-44) will probably be the first turnpike in this round of speed limit increases to go up to 80...
The Cimarron Turnpike (US 412) still has one section that has not been upgraded with the cable median barrier (that will be as part of the bridge project at exit 22)...
Muskogee: the cable median barrier is already there, so I think that the only thing that needs to be upgraded is the cashless tolling conversion...
I'm curious as to why the increases did not include I-44 between Lawton and the Texas state line (first instance of the speed limit decreasing from 80 mph to 75 mph going into Texas?). Isn't that portion fully upgraded now?
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 08, 2023, 12:34:59 AM
I'm curious as to why the increases did not include I-44 between Lawton and the Texas state line (first instance of the speed limit decreasing from 80 mph to 75 mph going into Texas?). Isn't that portion fully upgraded now?
Yes, it has the cable-median barrier (so it's all ready to go)... the only reason why they are not raising the speed limit on that section south of Lawton is due to the construction project at exit 20...
^ Can they not lower the speed limit temporarily around that area, and keep it 80 mph everywhere else?
How is it different than 75 mph lowering through there?
When did Oklahoma number the Indian Nation Turnpike to this https://goo.gl/maps/dDTGFkQLmxK7skiu5
Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2023, 05:56:42 PM
When did Oklahoma number the Indian Nation Turnpike to this https://goo.gl/maps/dDTGFkQLmxK7skiu5
August 2021
The last few miles of I-44 between Randlett and the Red River are not part of the turnpike system, so the maximum speed limit allowed on this stretch of road is 75 MPH.
Quote from: bugo on April 21, 2023, 03:53:21 PM
The last few miles of I-44 between Randlett and the Red River are not part of the turnpike system, so the maximum speed limit allowed on this stretch of road is 75 MPH.
I thought your reasoning was backward for a minute, because I distinctly remembered it being 75 north of Randlett and 70 south of Randlett. Then I remembered the recent speed limit increase we were discussing a couple of weeks ago, and it all made sense.
Quote from: bugo on April 21, 2023, 03:53:21 PM
The last few miles of I-44 between Randlett and the Red River are not part of the turnpike system, so the maximum speed limit allowed on this stretch of road is 75 MPH.
Couldn't they raise the speed limit on the 24 mile segment between US-277 near Geronimo and US-277 near Randlett? That segment is apart of the turnpike system and could bump to 80 mph.
I drive that section of I-44 from time to time. I usually don't drive any faster than 75mph. The turnpike is about as narrow as it can get for Interstate standards. That flimsy cable barrier separating the two directions of traffic doesn't seem like much at all. When I'm driving on that stretch of I-44 I sort of feel like I'm driving fast on a city street rather than an actual Interstate highway.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 22, 2023, 12:40:37 PM
I drive that section of I-44 from time to time. I usually don't drive any faster than 75mph. The turnpike is about as narrow as it can get for Interstate standards. That flimsy cable barrier separating the two directions of traffic doesn't seem like much at all. When I'm driving on that stretch of I-44 I sort of feel like I'm driving fast on a city street rather than an actual Interstate highway.
It's no different from the Cimarron Turnpike or the Muskogee Turnpike, which will be raising to 80 mph.
There's no reason it shouldn't be raised to 80 mph. If it is too fast for you, you're welcome to remain at 75 mph in the right lane.
Have you actually driven I-44 between Lawton and Randlett (much less the two other turnpikes you mentioned)? It's one thing to look at the roads via Google Earth versus actually driving on them in real life. I'm not backing down at all from my comment that I-44 between Lawton and Randlett feels like little more than a city street with a cable barrier running down the middle of it.
To someone like me who has clinched the Cimarron and the Indian Nation, the idea of them having 80 mph speed limits is faintly ridiculous. They are nowhere near the modern standards of the other sections of turnpike currently carrying 80 mph limits.
I don't really object to the increase that much because I'm fine with people driving as fast as they want to, but I am a little concerned that the 80 limit might set up an expectation of a certain kind of road quality that this turnpike profile doesn't meet. The Autobahn it ain't.
To be clear, at least having some kind of physical barrier between the two directions of traffic (as opposed to a narrow hump of grass) is better than nothing. But it's still not all that great.
The OTA dug out that narrow grassy median strip and replaced it with a flat "lane" of concrete. Rather than using a solid, concrete Jersey barrier (like what was installed on the I-44 turnpikes from Medicine Park to the Missouri border in the mid 1990's) they tacked in a cable barrier down the middle of that new center lane. These newer cable barriers may work well at stopping out of control vehicles. But visually they don't look like much of a barrier and you can easily see right through them.
The visual of the renovated turnpike looks very similar to a 5-lane urban street, with a cable barrier installed in the center turn lane. Lawton has several of these kinds of 5-lane concrete streets. Those streets typically have 35mph speed limits. It feels weird to go from driving on one of those streets to driving on I-44, where it looks the same, but traffic is going much faster.
Some portions of I-44 South of Lawton have had chunks of road bed replaced. But there are still segments that date back a really long time. You can feel the difference driving on that section versus driving on fully re-built Interstate such as the toll free section on I-44 South of the Randlett exit.
I've driven I-44 between Lawton and Randlett several times, and it has never seemed narrow to me. And as for the cable barrier: while it doesn't feel as safe as a Jersey barrier, it does feel safer than a plain grassy median, and I've never thought I needed to reduce my speed simply because of the cable barrier.
If anything, it's the less-than-flat roadbed that makes me hate that stretch, especially considering I'm usually driving a heavy-laden vehicle.
No, the part of the HE Bailey that feels too narrow for the speed limit to me is the part where there's a hard curb (https://goo.gl/maps/xajec2qfUPYkdy1U6) immediately left of the yellow stripe, on a curve, within city limits, where there are commonly slow-moving trucks still getting up to speed.
Still, it's an improvement on "Arkansas Freeways" (5 lane) that are common just to the east. That being said, I don't see any push in upping the speed limits on those roads either.
Quote from: kphogerNo, the part of the HE Bailey that feels too narrow for the speed limit to me is the part where there's a hard curb immediately left of the yellow stripe, on a curve, within city limits, where there are commonly slow-moving trucks still getting up to speed.
Yeah, I don't like that spot on I-44 going South out of Chickasha. Any motorist in the left lane not paying attention could slam his left front wheel into that sudden street curb.
I'm guessing the street curbs are there on that half-mile stretch of the Southwest-bound lanes to help channel storm water to the drainage grates. The lanes are banking thru a broad left turn. The slanted grading causes rainwater to flow into the center median strip rather than out to the right shoulder. I think they could have developed a better solution than a street curb on the left edge of the left lane.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 25, 2023, 01:16:38 PM
Yeah, I don't like that spot on I-44 going South out of Chickasha. Any motorist in the left lane not paying attention could slam his left front wheel into that sudden street curb.
I'm guessing the street curbs are there on that half-mile stretch of the Southwest-bound lanes to help channel storm water to the drainage grates. The lanes are banking thru a broad left turn. The slanted grading causes rainwater to flow into the center median strip rather than out to the right shoulder. I think they could have developed a better solution than a street curb on the left edge of the left lane.
Oh wow, I didn't even realize it was only on the southwest-bound side. I guess that explains why I've never thought the same when heading northeast through there...
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 25, 2023, 01:16:38 PM
Quote from: kphogerNo, the part of the HE Bailey that feels too narrow for the speed limit to me is the part where there's a hard curb immediately left of the yellow stripe, on a curve, within city limits, where there are commonly slow-moving trucks still getting up to speed.
Yeah, I don't like that spot on I-44 going South out of Chickasha. Any motorist in the left lane not paying attention could slam his left front wheel into that sudden street curb.
I'm guessing the street curbs are there on that half-mile stretch of the Southwest-bound lanes to help channel storm water to the drainage grates. The lanes are banking thru a broad left turn. The slanted grading causes rainwater to flow into the center median strip rather than out to the right shoulder. I think they could have developed a better solution than a street curb on the left edge of the left lane.
Good guess. That is exactly why they are there. When the dirt embankments were there, it wasn't as much of an issue as you subconsciously stayed away. The addition of the Jersey barriers made it more blatant.
Prior to the mid 1990's when the median was just a grassy strip there might have still been a street curb in that location. I can't remember for sure since that was so long ago. With the narrow grassy hump removed and replaced with concrete I guess the highway engineers were probably worried about storm water possibly pooling in the left shoulder area of that wide left turn. But placing a street curb on the edge of the left lane creates a whole new set of problems.
If water ponding was an issue, they should have mitigated that through other means. Compromising highway safety by retaining a curb-and-gutter with no buffer in the left lane of a 75 mph freeway is extremely dangerous, and arguably worse than water ponding in the shoulder. One impact with that curb at 75-80 mph is asking for an accident. And that area is due to go up to 80 mph with this recent increase.
Could they not install drains in the shoulder area? Such as this (https://maps.app.goo.gl/7fL2UBU35JERuQD49?g_st=ic)?
ODOT rolled out a new map tool to track construction projects: https://oklahoma.public.dotmapsapp.com/map
It is actually much better than the last two ways they had of tracking and staying up to date on current construction projects. They've pretty much stopped updating their page and major construction projects with a few exceptions. I chalked that up to the new director Tim Gatz not caring much as he has hit plate full running the OTA as well.
Looks like they're going to replace the I-40 Arkansas River bridge at Webbers Falls. This is the bridge that collapsed after being hit by a barge in 2002. Instead of building a new bridge, they quickly repaired the existing bridge, and you can easily tell which spans were replaced.
Wikipedia has an article on the Interstate 40 bridge disaster here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster. I have a book called The Roads that Built America: The Incredible Story of the U.S. Interstate System that has a reference to the bridge disaster (among others): https://www.amazon.com/Roads-That-Built-America-Incredible/dp/1402734689/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+roads+that+built+america&qid=1682550132&s=books&sprefix=the+roads+that+bu%2Cstripbooks%2C135&sr=1-1. The book describes the Interstate 40 bridge disaster as a "freak accident."
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 26, 2023, 07:03:10 PM
Wikipedia has an article on the Interstate 40 bridge disaster here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster. I have a book called The Roads that Built America: The Incredible Story of the U.S. Interstate System that has a reference to the bridge disaster (among others): https://www.amazon.com/Roads-That-Built-America-Incredible/dp/1402734689/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=the+roads+that+built+america&qid=1682550132&s=books&sprefix=the+roads+that+bu%2Cstripbooks%2C135&sr=1-1. The book describes the Interstate 40 bridge disaster as a "freak accident."
I have this book as well; it's pretty fascinating how all this got started. One of my very first ever e-book purchases.
EDIT: Sorry, the title sounded familiar but now I may have to get this book...the book I currently have is called "The Big Roads: The Untold Story of the Engineers, Visionaries, and Trailblazers Who Created the American Superhighways" https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004X7TM14/
Quote from: kphoger on April 24, 2023, 10:05:51 AM
No, the part of the HE Bailey that feels too narrow for the speed limit to me is the part where there's a hard curb (https://goo.gl/maps/xajec2qfUPYkdy1U6) immediately left of the yellow stripe, on a curve, within city limits, where there are commonly slow-moving trucks still getting up to speed.
Why did I not know this existed? That's honestly worse than the grass hump.
That street curb can give a motorist cruising along in the left lane quite a scare the first time they see it. When I'm driving that direction on I-44 I'm often in the left lane at that location. The curb begins around 1600 feet past the US-81 on ramp to WB I-44. I'll often shift to the left to avoid slower traffic merging onto I-44. It can take a good bit of time and distance to be able to move over to the right lane.
IMHO, I think the OTA should have modest sized warning signs of some sort posted on top of the concrete Jersey barrier to alert motorists about that street curb. It's not enough to put yellow paint on the curb itself. There probably should be at least one or two warning signs on posts hundreds of feet in advance of the curb as well as a couple or so warning signs along the length of the curb. The OTA needs to do something to help motorists be more aware of that curb OR they need to come up with a better water drainage method for that location.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 30, 2023, 11:17:39 AM
That street curb can give a motorist cruising along in the left lane quite a scare the first time they see it. When I'm driving that direction on I-44 I'm often in the left lane at that location. The curb begins around 1600 feet past the US-81 on ramp to WB I-44. I'll often shift to the left to avoid slower traffic merging onto I-44. It can take a good bit of time and distance to be able to move over to the right lane.
IMHO, I think the OTA should have modest sized warning signs of some sort posted on top of the concrete Jersey barrier to alert motorists about that street curb. It's not enough to put yellow paint on the curb itself. There probably should be at least one or two warning signs on posts hundreds of feet in advance of the curb as well as a couple or so warning signs along the length of the curb. The OTA needs to do something to help motorists be more aware of that curb OR they need to come up with a better water drainage method for that location.
Perhaps they should look into how many people hit it first.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 30, 2023, 11:17:39 AM
That street curb can give a motorist cruising along in the left lane quite a scare the first time they see it. When I'm driving that direction on I-44 I'm often in the left lane at that location. The curb begins around 1600 feet past the US-81 on ramp to WB I-44. I'll often shift to the left to avoid slower traffic merging onto I-44. It can take a good bit of time and distance to be able to move over to the right lane.
IMHO, I think the OTA should have modest sized warning signs of some sort posted on top of the concrete Jersey barrier to alert motorists about that street curb. It's not enough to put yellow paint on the curb itself. There probably should be at least one or two warning signs on posts hundreds of feet in advance of the curb as well as a couple or so warning signs along the length of the curb. The OTA needs to do something to help motorists be more aware of that curb OR they need to come up with a better water drainage method for that location.
Or better yet, fix it like they did here:
https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2752374,-97.6061433,3a,75y,26.99h,73.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s9mthJsci3Zgp4HRaoUUgvA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0
It used to have a curb but it was taken out when this stretch was rebuilt a few years ago.
^ Exactly, tear it out and replace it with a proper drainage system with drains in the shoulder lane.
Looks like Oklahoma is going to launch a tool to track your mileage to see how you'd pay with a mileage based tax instead of a fuel just as an experiment. Personally I don't think Oklahoma is the right place to do a mileage based tax just raise the gas taxes a bit.
https://ktul.com/news/local/new-study-explores-alternative-to-state-gas-tax
As more electric vehicles are sold and hitting the roads the state has to use some method to make sure everyone is paying a fair share for highway maintenance and construction. As the article stated, EV owners have to pay something like an extra $100 when renewing their tags to make up for not paying gasoline taxes. It sounds like a flat fee regardless of how many miles someone drives an EV on fuel-tax funded highways.
In the long run, I think the fuel taxes will stop being collected at the gasoline stations and we'll probably just have RFID toll tag readers installed all over the damned place.
Honestly, I'd rather just the fuel tax shift to an electricity tax, so if I'm being an idiot and forget to turn the light off in my office when I go to bed, at least I'm paying for ODOT to buy themselves a nice bolt or something.
https://www.odot.org/contracts/2023/23081001/plans_advert/145_2308_STP-252F(088)PM_3515404/0000-3515404-FULLFILE.pdf
Found a sign replacement contract letting on August 10th for sections of SH 152/I-44/I-240 in Noble and Oklahoma counties...
Call Order: 145
Calendar Days: 270 Days
Contract ID: 230228
DBE Goal: --
J/P No.: 35154(04)
Project No.: STP-252F(088)PM
Counties: NOBLE / OKLAHOMA
Contract
Description: TRAFFIC SIGNING
I-44/I-240/SH-152: AT MULTIPLE LOCATIONS IN DISTRICT IV.
PROJECT LENGTH = 0.00 MILES
It looks like US 62 and OK 3 are being deemphasized/unsigned at the I-44/I-240 interchange.
OK 3. OH 3 (and US 22) meets US 62 in Washington Court House, OH and splits from it in Columbus, OH.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 04, 2023, 12:10:24 PM
OK 3. OH 3 (and US 22) meets US 62 in Washington Court House, OH and splits from it in Columbus, OH.
Yeah that was an obvious typo.
On tomorrow's ODOT Commission meeting agenda:
Highway Number Redesignation — Mr. Planteen
Districts IV and VIII — Delaware, Mayes, Rogers, Tulsa, Osage, Pawnee, Payne and Noble Counties
a) Remove SH-152 Designation from I-44 junction west to Kilpatrick Turnpike junction
b) Add I-240 Designation from I-44 junction west to Kilpatrick Turnpike junction
c) Add I-240 Follow Route Designation I-240/I-44 junction north to I-44/SH-152
d) Add I-344 Designation to the entirety of the Kilpatrick Turnpike
e) Add I-335 Designation to Kickapoo Turnpike
This idea sounds a lot better than signing I-240 over both the Kilpatrick and Kickapoo turnpikes.
Wouldn't a I-344 designation make more sense for the Gilcrease Expressway (since that's already signed as OK-344)? I think the Kilpatrick should get a different I-x44 number, like an even-numbered designation such as "I-644" or "I-844". Or they could assign a different I-x40 number.
Normally I'd cry foul about the "I-335" odd numbered route idea for the Kickapoo Turnpike since both ends are at two Interstate routes. But I-335 in Kansas does the same thing already. So does I-355 in Chicagoland.
That I-335 designation for the Kickapoo Turnpike also clearly states the ultimate objective of the turnpike extending down to I-35 near Purcell. IMHO they also need to plan for extending the Kickapoo Turnpike North past I-44 and Luther up and over to I-35 near Guthrie. That could make something like an "I-835" designation more logical.
So OK-152, I-240, and I-344 all meet and end at the same place? I would hope 240 would cover the portion of the Kilpatrick south of I-40.
I'm guessing the first digits being 3s has more to do with the fact that all of the recently-assigned toll road numbers start with 3 than anything having to do with actual Interstate numbering rules.
As a result, OK-325's number becomes even more annoying. (Can we have OK-456, please?)
I doubt OK 344 will get an Interstate designation, same with the Kickapoo Turnpike Extension. Has the OK 335 (or any designation) been approved for the KTE?
The body that approves all state highway designations in Oklahoma is the one that will be voting on these Interstate designations tomorrow.
In my mind, the first digit of a 3-digit interstate has less to do with how many of its ends are at interstates and more with its functional role. Clear spurs are odd, clear bypasses or beltways are even, and anything else can go either way. The Kickapoo isn't neatly in either category - sure, in its final form it will be more or less an OKC bypass, but it's not really a pure bypass since it doesn't come back to I-35. I'm not going to complain about that one. But the Kilpatrick is so obviously a beltway. I propose I-644 for that one...maybe ODOT could go with multiples of 3 for toll roads.
I assume they'd want to renumber SH-344 in Tulsa, not because Oklahoma has issues with number duplication (they don't) but because I can see things getting confusing with a Turnpike 344 in both of the state's major cities. SH-311 or 312 (playing off US 412) could be decent alternatives for that.
What I'm more confused about is that they are still extending I-240 west over an I-44 overlap and then over the SH-152 freeway. I get that it kind of makes sense to have one designation for the toll portion and another for the free, but two interstates ending at each other is dumb when there isn't even another interstate involved at the junction. I'm not sure that exists anywhere else in the system. Why not just use I-344 for the SH-152 freeway? That would make 344 an even better beltway since it would connect to 44 on both sides.
Why is everybody so hell-bent on giving OKC an I-x44 designation. Tulsa has ONE Interstate, OKC has 3. They can choose between I-x35 and I-x40. Tulsa might be getting I-46/48/50, but that may be years down the road. Tulsa might vey well run out of x44s, but, no, let's give them to OKC...
They can't call it OK 312 because there already is one.
Why are they proposing I-335 less than 75 miles away from OK 335, which was designated what, less than a year ago? Does the right hand know not what the left hand is doing?
The US 412 Interstate will be
I-42:
Quotea) Districts IV and VIII — Delaware, Mayes, Rogers, Tulsa, Osage, Pawnee, Payne and Noble Counties
Add Designation of I-42 in various locations throughout the state
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/transportation-commision/agenda/2023/tc_agenda-202309-r.pdf
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 10, 2023, 05:42:16 PM
I'm guessing the first digits being 3s has more to do with the fact that all of the recently-assigned toll road numbers start with 3 than anything having to do with actual Interstate numbering rules.
As a result, OK-325's number becomes even more annoying. (Can we have OK-456, please?)
My idea is to truncate OK 3 at Boise City and remove that designation from US 385 to the north and reapply it to the Boise City-Kenton highway. That would at least give it a reason to exist west of US 81.
Here's the relevant section:
(https://i.imgur.com/5wyGrWY.jpg)
Quote from: bugo on September 11, 2023, 09:28:36 AM
Why are they proposing I-335 less than 75 miles away from OK 335, which was designated what, less than a year ago? Does the right hand know not what the left hand is doing?
Where is OK-335?
I was thinking of I-344, not I-335. There is an OK 344 in Tulsa and an I-344 in OKC, about 75 road miles apart on I-44.
With all the 3-digit numbers being designated with a three as the first number, it can be hard to keep track of them all. I wouldn't be surprised if more such numbers were assigned in the future.
Hey, maybe OK-344 can become OK-342 now. :P
Quote from: The GhostbusterI doubt OK 344 will get an Interstate designation, same with the Kickapoo Turnpike Extension.
The very idea they named the Gilcrease Expressway "OK-344" obviously implied an eventual I-344 designation. Otherwise why not give it some other 3xx number? When completed, the Gilcrease Expressway will meet Interstate standards. It would be stupid to have an I-344 route in OKC and SH-344 route in Tulsa (especially after the SH-344 route was already established).
As for the Kickapoo Turnpike, the I-335 idea seems to show the intent on getting the Kickapoo extension built down to Purcell and I-35. I think it would be silly to map an I-335 designation on both the Kickapoo Turnpike and East-West Connector to Newcastle. The end result would be more of an I-x44 loop route than anything related to I-35. Both ends of the signed route would be on I-44 and only intersect I-35 once.
Quote from: bugoWhy is everybody so hell-bent on giving OKC an I-x44 designation.
Not everyone is hell bent. I mentioned possibly giving the Kilpatrick Turnpike an I-x40 designation. It would probably make more sense to have the original North half of the Kilpatrick named something like "I-440" since it does function as city core bypass route for I-44 traffic destined for I-40.
Quote from: bugoThe US 412 Interstate will be I-42
Reminds me of an earlier joke I made along those lines. I wouldn't be surprised if "I-42" turned out to be the designation.
Weird how I-240 will end at the I-344/SH-152 junction and then become I-344 if continuing on the freeway. Makes me think(hope) they'll go through with converting SH-152 through Mustang to a freeway one day regardless of the ROW needed which they can obtain and clear. One can dream.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 11, 2023, 07:20:17 PM
Quote from: The GhostbusterI doubt OK 344 will get an Interstate designation, same with the Kickapoo Turnpike Extension.
The very idea they named the Gilcrease Expressway "OK-344" obviously implied an eventual I-344 designation. Otherwise why not give it some other 3xx number? When completed, the Gilcrease Expressway will meet Interstate standards. It would be stupid to have an I-344 route in OKC and SH-344 route in Tulsa (especially after the SH-344 route was already established).
As for the Kickapoo Turnpike, the I-335 idea seems to show the intent on getting the Kickapoo extension built down to Purcell and I-35. I think it would be silly to map an I-335 designation on both the Kickapoo Turnpike and East-West Connector to Newcastle. The end result would be more of an I-x44 loop route than anything related to I-35. Both ends of the signed route would be on I-44 and only intersect I-35 once.
Quote from: bugoWhy is everybody so hell-bent on giving OKC an I-x44 designation.
Not everyone is hell bent. I mentioned possibly giving the Kilpatrick Turnpike an I-x40 designation. It would probably make more sense to have the original North half of the Kilpatrick named something like "I-440" since it does function as city core bypass route for I-44 traffic destined for I-40.
Quote from: bugoThe US 412 Interstate will be I-42
Reminds me of an earlier joke I made along those lines. I wouldn't be surprised if "I-42" turned out to be the designation.
Don't forget the Gilcrease, the eastern completed section, is OK-11. When the Gilcrease is completed something is going to have to be renumbered.
And what's with OKC's Interstate plan? I-335 for Kickapoo Turnpike? I-344 for John Kilpatrick Turnpike? I-240 only extends a little bit to end at I-344 and SH-152? What are they smoking?
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 10, 2023, 04:20:30 PM
This idea sounds a lot better than signing I-240 over both the Kilpatrick and Kickapoo turnpikes.
Wouldn't a I-344 designation make more sense for the Gilcrease Expressway (since that's already signed as OK-344)? I think the Kilpatrick should get a different I-x44 number, like an even-numbered designation such as "I-644" or "I-844". Or they could assign a different I-x40 number.
Normally I'd cry foul about the "I-335" odd numbered route idea for the Kickapoo Turnpike since both ends are at two Interstate routes. But I-335 in Kansas does the same thing already. So does I-355 in Chicagoland.
That I-335 designation for the Kickapoo Turnpike also clearly states the ultimate objective of the turnpike extending down to I-35 near Purcell. IMHO they also need to plan for extending the Kickapoo Turnpike North past I-44 and Luther up and over to I-35 near Guthrie. That could make something like an "I-835" designation more logical.
The only difference is that I-335 in Kansas started at I-35. I-355 originally started at I-55 before the extension south. OK's I-335 plan only goes from I-44 to I-40. Makes no sense. They could have just sign it as a state route (if it isn't already) at least until it connects to I-35 I'm assuming from the southern extension?
Quote from: US 89 on September 11, 2023, 09:04:09 AM
What I'm more confused about is that they are still extending I-240 west over an I-44 overlap and then over the SH-152 freeway. I get that it kind of makes sense to have one designation for the toll portion and another for the free, but two interstates ending at each other is dumb when there isn't even another interstate involved at the junction. I'm not sure that exists anywhere else in the system. Why not just use I-344 for the SH-152 freeway? That would make 344 an even better beltway since it would connect to 44 on both sides.
The only one I can think of is I-495 and I-195 ending at MA-25 near Wareham, MA. But other than that? I don't know of one...?
I'm scratching my head in confusion with this idea that I-240 would be extended along Airport Road, but end where the Southern extension of the Kilpatrick Turnpike begins. That's just damned silly.
If they're going to extend I-240 to the West of I-44 the friggin' extension should go all the way up to I-40. Let this "I-344" stuff or whatever it is they're talking about end at I-40 and go no farther South.
It's not like I-240 can be extended down and West thru Mustang. ODOT and OTA already blew a big opportunity of linking the H.E. Bailey Turnpike extension North and West up to I-40 over 20 years ago. Now the OK-4 route is kind of a mess due to missed opportunities. Having an I-240 and "I-335" route end at a state highway interchange is just nuts. It makes me think the folks who are making the big decisions don't know how to read a freaking road atlas.
Quote from: StriderThe only difference is that I-335 in Kansas started at I-35. I-355 originally started at I-55 before the extension south. OK's I-335 plan only goes from I-44 to I-40. Makes no sense.
The I-335 designation does make sense if it is applied to the current Kickapoo Turnpike
and the proposed Kickapoo Extension down to I-35 near Purcell. It's like the OTA is throwing down the gauntlet and saying they're going to get all of the Kickapoo Turnpike built, with the route naming implying so.
If they can get the whole thing built down to a South terminus with I-35 near Purcell then the I-335 designation would be a correct choice.
If the OTA's intention is to sign "I-335" along the Kickapoo Turnpike and then along the East-West Connector over to Newcastle then that would be stupid. If they want both of those turnpike segments to carry the same route number then it should carry an I-x44 number since both ends would terminate at different points on I-44.
Quote from: Strider on September 11, 2023, 09:37:46 PM
OK's I-335 plan only goes from I-44 to I-40. Makes no sense. They could have just sign it as a state route (if it isn't already) at least until it connects to I-35 I'm assuming from the southern extension?
You really want to give Oklahoma two chances to make ugly signs instead of just one?
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 12, 2023, 03:04:06 AM
Quote from: Strider on September 11, 2023, 09:37:46 PM
OK's I-335 plan only goes from I-44 to I-40. Makes no sense. They could have just sign it as a state route (if it isn't already) at least until it connects to I-35 I'm assuming from the southern extension?
You really want to give Oklahoma two chances to make ugly signs instead of just one?
I can't wait to see how the signage gets screwed up for this one.
8 year plan officially updated new and expedited projects listed.
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects0/8-year-construction-work-plan.html
QuoteFY2024-2027 Asset Preservation Plan
$497 million in total investment
290 total projects
Rehabilitation of 146 highway bridges
More than 1,800 miles of pavement resurfacing
Notable projects added or advanced in the Eight-Year Construction Work Plan include:
In the Oklahoma City metro area, improvements to the I-35/I-240 and I-35/I-44 interchanges as well as resurfacing I-35 between the Oklahoma River and S.E. 89th
In the Tulsa metro area, improvements to the I-44 and US-75 interchange.
In Eastern Oklahoma, resurfacing of US-69 between Checotah and Eufaula in McIntosh County.
In Southeastern Oklahoma, adding shoulders along SH-37 west of Idabel and improvements on US-259 in Hochatown in McCurtain County moved forward to 2024.
In Southeast Central Oklahoma, bridge rehabilitations over I-44 at SH-37 East and S.W. 119th in Cleveland County and at SH-145 over I-35 in Garvin County.
In South Central Oklahoma, planning for improvements along I-35 between Marietta in Love County and Springer in Carter County, as well as an I-35 bridge reconstruction at Thackerville in Love County.
In Western Oklahoma, widening US-270 near SH-58 west of Watonga in Blaine County, and pavement reconstruction on I-40 west of US-281 in Caddo County.
In Northwest Oklahoma, adding shoulders to SH-45 in Alfalfa County and resurfacing part of US-281 in Alva in Woods County.
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2023/more-than--9-billion-in-improvements-planned-for-oklahoma-highwa.html
Nice to see 141St grade separated from US 75 in Glenpool, south of Tulsa in FY24. $19M for the work, after $10M spent this year?
Quote from: splashflash on October 03, 2023, 02:06:47 AM
Nice to see 141St grade separated from US 75 in Glenpool, south of Tulsa in FY24. $19M for the work, after $10M spent this year?
That needed to have been grade separated 20 years ago
Not to get political here, but legislators really need to come together and find a way to give ODOT some more money. There's tons of road projects, especially in the OKC area that desperately need to be expedited.
One in mine is the I 35/240 interchange. 10 years ago the 8 yr plan had that to be finished by now. Last year when they announced the initiative to convert US 412 into interstate, I feel like a lot of projects got put on the back burner for that. They consistently push phases of the 35/240 interchange back and they did it again this year too. They had all remaining phases scheduled to begin construction in 2024. Originally it was supposed to have started construction in 2019 or 2020 if memory serves correct. Then they decided to split it up in phases and would do phase 1 and two, and then do all the remaining phases at once.
Then last year that went to shit. They pushed the phases back without even saying anything. Then had all remaining phases scheduled to begin in 2024. Now they have three phases scheduled to begin in 2024 with the last phase scheduled to be in 2025. This is a much more important project than upgrading US 412 or adding shoulders to some dinky Road in the middle of scenic nowhere that sees a few hundred cars a day.
What ODOT should really be focusing on is getting rid of some of the roads they own and maintain. Oklahoma has way too many state maintained roads. A lot of them are in areas that are pretty much on the decline.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 06, 2023, 07:51:45 PM
Not to get political here, but legislators really need to come together and find a way to give ODOT some more money. There's tons of road projects, especially in the OKC area that desperately need to be expedited.
One in mine is the I 35/240 interchange. 10 years ago the 8 yr plan had that to be finished by now. Last year when they announced the initiative to convert US 412 into interstate, I feel like a lot of projects got put on the back burner for that. They consistently push phases of the 35/240 interchange back and they did it again this year too. They had all remaining phases scheduled to begin construction in 2024. Originally it was supposed to have started construction in 2019 or 2020 if memory serves correct. Then they decided to split it up in phases and would do phase 1 and two, and then do all the remaining phases at once.
Then last year that went to shit. They pushed the phases back without even saying anything. Then had all remaining phases scheduled to begin in 2024. Now they have three phases scheduled to begin in 2024 with the last phase scheduled to be in 2025. This is a much more important project than upgrading US 412 or adding shoulders to some dinky Road in the middle of scenic nowhere that sees a few hundred cars a day.
What ODOT should really be focusing on is getting rid of some of the roads they own and maintain. Oklahoma has way too many state maintained roads. A lot of them are in areas that are pretty much on the decline.
The Interstate 42 upgrades are largely going to be paid for by grant money, not money from other projects.
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/federal-grants/mpdg/2022/us-412-priority-improvements/project-information/narrative.pdf
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on October 06, 2023, 07:51:45 PM
What ODOT should really be focusing on is getting rid of some of the roads they own and maintain. Oklahoma has way too many state maintained roads. A lot of them are in areas that are pretty much on the decline.
I can't agree with that. Oklahoma's state highway system is much more sparse than some states. For example, Oklahoma's state highway system is 12,254 miles, and the area of the state is 68,578 square miles. Its neighbor to the east, Arkansas, has a state highway system of 16,442 miles and the total area is 53,179 square miles. A ton of county roads in Oklahoma would be state highways in other states.
The funny thing is a lot of these non-descript county roads and section line roads positioned on what seems like every mile notch across the state get a lot of state funding. The roads themselves are one thing. Many of them have numerous bridges to maintain too.
As rural counties in Oklahoma continue to see their median populations shift older (partly from young adults fleeing to OKC, Tulsa, DFW, etc) there is going to be less and less justification to continue maintaining those roads. I'm sure the agri-business industry will need to keep as many of those roads open as possible. But I can see a day when Oklahoma shifts the responsibility of maintaining those roads to those commercial businesses rather than the taxpayers.
Meanwhile, Oklahoma does have highway corridors it seriously needs to improve and expand.
I was on a portion of US 60 in Northeastern Oklahoma when a funeral procession passed in the opposing direction. During the moment, every car in my direction pulled aside despite not being in the path of the procession.
Is that a state law? Or is that just old school protocol where people just want to show respects to the family of the deceased?
Just old school habits dying hard.
Figured.
Hey I see on Wiki that US 412 was considered by the Governor in 2021 to be considered an interstate corridor. Has anyone yet speculated what number would be assigned for it, or is it too early in the game. Logically it should be I-42, but NC has that number taken. If it were to continue to I-35 north of Oklahoma City, I would say I-46 is available and would be justified as part of it would be north of I-44.
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2023/jun/11/converting-us-412-to-interstate-standard-faces/
However obstacles remain. It would probably take as long as to complete I-49 from Dyersburg to Texas.
Quote from: roadman65 on October 08, 2023, 11:14:21 PM
Figured.
Hey I see on Wiki that US 412 was considered by the Governor in 2021 to be considered an interstate corridor. Has anyone yet speculated what number would be assigned for it, or is it too early in the game. Logically it should be I-42, but NC has that number taken. If it were to continue to I-35 north of Oklahoma City, I would say I-46 is available and would be justified as part of it would be north of I-44.
https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2023/jun/11/converting-us-412-to-interstate-standard-faces/
However obstacles remain. It would probably take as long as to complete I-49 from Dyersburg to Texas.
They have settled for I-42...
Quote from: roadman65 on October 08, 2023, 11:14:21 PM
It would probably take as long as to complete I-49 from Dyersburg to Texas.
I believe that would be I-69 (?).
It didn't take long for two non-continuous future Interstate 42's to pop up in the country. It took significantly longer for the country to get two Interstate 76s, two Interstate 84s, two Interstate 86s, two Interstate 87s, and two Interstate 88s. I'm not counting the multiple Interstate 69s and Interstate 74s, since they are (or were) proposed to ultimately be one continuous Interstate corridor (good luck with that).
Quote from: -- US 175 -- on October 09, 2023, 02:15:27 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 08, 2023, 11:14:21 PM
It would probably take as long as to complete I-49 from Dyersburg to Texas.
I believe that would be I-69 (?).
Damn. A two off typo. Or one of those thinking purple but saying pink moments.
Yeah I meant I-69. Of course I-49 will eventually get done. Arkansas is just having trouble funding it. Louisiana is just having trouble with Shreveport and I'm guessing money is the issue with US 90 upgrades east of Lafayette.
Improvements to US-259 in Hochatown are coming in 2024:
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects0/public-meetings-and-hearings0/public-meetings-and-hearings/20221027.html
Quote from: roadman65 on October 08, 2023, 09:17:14 PM
I was on a portion of US 60 in Northeastern Oklahoma when a funeral procession passed in the opposing direction. During the moment, every car in my direction pulled aside despite not being in the path of the procession.
Is that a state law? Or is that just old school protocol where people just want to show respects to the family of the deceased?
Old School protocol. SOMETIMES family members will make the point in not so innocuous ways. ESPECIALLY on the rural freeway or divided highway. (Do not overtake the hearse. )
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 28, 2023, 11:21:45 AM
Improvements to US-259 in Hochatown are coming in 2024:
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/programs-and-projects0/public-meetings-and-hearings0/public-meetings-and-hearings/20221027.html
Hochatown is a boomtown. Either it is the ultimate resort location in Oklahoma or it is as I have heard posited elsewhere a really neat way to get an Oklahoma pot card. (IE build a home there and get a card fairly easily then rent it on AirBnB or VRBO.)
Traffic is terrible. 259 was 2-lane without shoulders. They have put up three or 4 traffic signals. They have added some shoulders. It is still a mess. Choctaw is building a HUGE casino there. Land prices are huge. Vacancy rates are up and rental prices are falling.
A couple of decades ago, this land was practically worthless. Ranchers and rodeoers from Texas would buy or rent it for dirt prices and let horses and cattle winter there (with minimal feed or hay). There was literally enough land you could rent enough to let the livestock forage on it cheaper than you could feed them at home.
Quote from: bwana39 on November 28, 2023, 12:39:45 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on October 08, 2023, 09:17:14 PM
I was on a portion of US 60 in Northeastern Oklahoma when a funeral procession passed in the opposing direction. During the moment, every car in my direction pulled aside despite not being in the path of the procession.
Is that a state law? Or is that just old school protocol where people just want to show respects to the family of the deceased?
Old School protocol. SOMETIMES family members will make the point in not so innocuous ways. ESPECIALLY on the rural freeway or divided highway. (Do not overtake the hearse. )
This is a custom that needs to die (no pun intended). Somebody dies each and every day, and inconveniencing drivers for an archaic, outdated tradition is unnecessary. Society needs to start looking at moving completely away from cemeteries because they take up valuable space and move towards cremation as the default method of disposing of bodies. If I died, I certainly wouldn't want to hold up traffic just because it would make my lazy family think they were doing something.
Looks like Enid is getting an MPO: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2023/city-of-enid--oklahoma-department-of-transportation-partner-for-.html
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 29, 2023, 03:27:59 PM
Looks like Enid is getting an MPO: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2023/city-of-enid--oklahoma-department-of-transportation-partner-for-.html
Heh. If you can piece together an urbanized area of 50,000 people, you have to have one under federal rules for transportation funding.
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2023, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 29, 2023, 03:27:59 PM
Looks like Enid is getting an MPO: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2023/city-of-enid--oklahoma-department-of-transportation-partner-for-.html
Heh. If you can piece together an urbanized area of 50,000 people, you have to have one under federal rules for transportation funding.
Seems to me that the first point of order of said MPO should be the recommendation of extending the US-412 Interstate upgrade of I-46/I-48/
I-50/I-52 from I-35 up to the point where the divided highway ends coming into Enid, at least until such time as a bypass is warranted. Wouldn't take much of a lift to close access/build overpasses/build access roads on US-412 between I-35 and where the divided highway currently ends on the east end of town.
Quote from: MikieTimT on December 29, 2023, 08:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2023, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 29, 2023, 03:27:59 PM
Looks like Enid is getting an MPO: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2023/city-of-enid--oklahoma-department-of-transportation-partner-for-.html
Heh. If you can piece together an urbanized area of 50,000 people, you have to have one under federal rules for transportation funding.
Seems to me that the first point of order of said MPO should be the recommendation of extending the US-412 Interstate upgrade of I-46/I-48/I-50/I-52 from I-35 up to the point where the divided highway ends coming into Enid, at least until such time as a bypass is warranted. Wouldn't take much of a lift to close access/build overpasses/build access roads on US-412 between I-35 and where the divided highway currently ends on the east end of town.
Someone doesn't know what an MPO does.
MPO sets up an transportation improvement program (TIP) to enable federal funding for projects within their planning area (MPA). That's really their most important function, outside of bringing sponsors together for other planning activities. If Enid is in a non-attainment area (doubtful), the MPO would also be conducting environmental analysis...eventually. We're talking a dinky MPO size-wise and their function will be quite limited in the short-term.
So, to say that a fledgling MPO's top priority would be to recommend an expansion of a proposed corridor when they don't have their feet under themselves yet with their routine functions is...silly.
Enid's MPO has the potential to be more than mere political window dressing. It just has to be pitched the right way. US-81 and US-412 are both divided 4-lane highways. Enid has a decent railroad hub there and is a short distance from the Southern Transcon rail corridor. Vance AFB is in the South side of Enid.
I think Enid needs some kind of partial loop similar the one proposed in Chickasha or the one slowing getting upgraded in Duncan. Start it out initially as a Super-2 with some limited access or just at-grade intersections, but with enough ROW that a Interstate quality freeway upgrade could be possible if eventually needed.
The cost of doing business in Oklahoma is pretty low compared to the rest of the country. Enid is in a regionally central location and has decent transportation connections. With some improvements, such as an Interstate quality connection with I-35 and a thru route out the West side of town, Enid might be able to attract some logistical businesses to that area. An upgrade of US-412 to Interstate standards between Enid and I-35 would be nice (and not difficult to build since there is plenty of room). But they need to work on getting one or more relief corridors around town established.
*facedesk*
Quote from: MikieTimT on December 29, 2023, 08:33:14 PM
Quote from: Rothman on December 29, 2023, 04:12:53 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 29, 2023, 03:27:59 PM
Looks like Enid is getting an MPO: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2023/city-of-enid--oklahoma-department-of-transportation-partner-for-.html
Heh. If you can piece together an urbanized area of 50,000 people, you have to have one under federal rules for transportation funding.
Seems to me that the first point of order of said MPO should be the recommendation of extending the US-412 Interstate upgrade of I-46/I-48/I-50/I-52 from I-35 up to the point where the divided highway ends coming into Enid, at least until such time as a bypass is warranted. Wouldn't take much of a lift to close access/build overpasses/build access roads on US-412 between I-35 and where the divided highway currently ends on the east end of town.
I highly doubt any interstate upgrade of US-412 is any priority for them - or need. The existing divided highway seems adequate enough, is there a large volume of traffic that justifies limited access?
The existing divided highways outside of Enid are adequate for non-local traffic. But what if the people living in Enid don't want a bunch of out of town trucks beating the shit out of their local streets? A local relief route, truck bypass or whatever the f*** anyone wants to call it might be a good idea. That kind of thing is actually being done in other parts of Oklahoma -in towns smaller than Enid.
But Enid deserves "facedesk." Sorry, Enid. You guys can go to hell.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 30, 2023, 02:00:11 AM
But Enid deserves "facedesk." Sorry, Enid. You guys can go to hell.
If I'm understanding Rothman right, he's saying "facedesk" because an MPO doesn't do anything but manage paperwork and coordinate between agencies. Any advocacy or planning for highway improvements in the Enid area would have to be done by ODOT, Garfield County, or the city of Enid, not the MPO.
Quote from: Scott5114 on December 30, 2023, 07:22:21 AM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 30, 2023, 02:00:11 AM
But Enid deserves "facedesk." Sorry, Enid. You guys can go to hell.
If I'm understanding Rothman right, he's saying "facedesk" because an MPO doesn't do anything but manage paperwork and coordinate between agencies. Any advocacy or planning for highway improvements in the Enid area would have to be done by ODOT, Garfield County, or the city of Enid, not the MPO.
Come to think of it, at least in NY, MPOs are sort of partners on big projects rather than advocates or lobbyists. Ideas for projects don't really originate within MPOs, but they certainly can fund planning studies and the like once they're identified by whatever sponsor. But actually standing at some pulpit somewhere banging their fist to the State Government about a particular project? Really not their place, from my experience.
Because an MPO consists of representatives from all the localities in their MPA, it would be difficult for the MPO to take its own position, anyway, without ticking someone off. Its structure makes advocacy like is being discussed almost impossible.
And the role can be ambiguous or a source of tension. For example, SMTC in Syracuse has had members think that MPOs should have actual oversight over projects (e.g., I-81) -- "We're not voting to add the funding to the TIP unless the project meets our demands." NYSDOT disagrees with that perspective and that tension plays out over the MPO tables across the State with the doomsday option looming over it (e.g., federal funds flow through DOTs, so if an MPO misbehaves...).
That "paperwork" of the TIP determines what projects are progressed, so it's quite significant.
(personal opinion emphasized)
I would imagine to some extent MPO's work differently in states with bigger populations. I know that sounds crazy but I do think this will help Enid.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 30, 2023, 02:00:11 AM
The existing divided highways outside of Enid are adequate for non-local traffic. But what if the people living in Enid don't want a bunch of out of town trucks beating the shit out of their local streets? A local relief route, truck bypass or whatever the f*** anyone wants to call it might be a good idea. That kind of thing is actually being done in other parts of Oklahoma -in towns smaller than Enid.
Okay, build a bypass. The existing divided highway between Enid and I-35 is adequate. It doesn't need an interstate highway or limited access upgrade in the foreseeable future. The proposed US-412 interstate highway to the east terminates at I-35.
What is the difference between a COG and a MPO?
Quote from: swake on December 30, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
What is the difference between a COG and a MPO?
COG is a Council of Governments. It generally covers rural counties and regional feeder hub counties. They generally cover several counties that the aggregate population is less than a million.
A MPO is a Municipal Planning Organization. It generally serves a single county or even a single city. They are GENERALLY in cities or counties if 250,000 thousand or more. Sometimes they extend to the suburbs and or adjacent counties that are in the same metropolitan area.
Larger counties may belong to both.
Quote from: bwana39 on December 30, 2023, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: swake on December 30, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
What is the difference between a COG and a MPO?
COG is a Council of Governments. It generally covers rural counties and regional feeder hub counties. They generally cover several counties that the aggregate population is less than a million.
A MPO is a Municipal Planning Organization. It generally serves a single county or even a single city. They are GENERALLY in cities or counties if 250,000 thousand or more. Sometimes they extend to the suburbs and or adjacent counties that are in the same metropolitan area.
Larger counties may belong to both.
As I stated above, every federally-recognized urbanized area of 50,000 people or more has to have an MPO.
(mutters about people answering questions only knowing half the answer since he's grumpy today)
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on December 30, 2023, 10:55:03 AM
I would imagine to some extent MPO's work differently in states with bigger populations. I know that sounds crazy but I do think this will help Enid.
Depends on how ODOT changes any federal-aid suballocation to the area because of the MPO.
Could go either way. Sometimes, communities are better off not joining an MPO: Let's say you're a little suburb or county that borders a big MPO with a big city and county in it. As it stands right now, the DOT could actually look out for you on its own whenever you raise a fuss about something. If the MPO expands its MPA and absorbs you in, now you have to compete with that big city and county for federal funding, when your lesser experience and ability with delivering federal projects probably puts you at a disadvantage.
I'd even to as far to say that choosing not to join an MPO and expanding its MPA actually sometimes gives a community leverage with a DOT that does not want to have to deal with the TIP process to have projects funded. In other words, a community could say, "I'm going to choose to expand the MPA with the MPO unless you give me X, Y and Z, DOT..."
The politics can get quite complicated.
(personal opinion emphasized)
Quote from: bwana39 on December 30, 2023, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: swake on December 30, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
What is the difference between a COG and a MPO?
COG is a Council of Governments. It generally covers rural counties and regional feeder hub counties. They generally cover several counties that the aggregate population is less than a million.
A MPO is a Municipal Planning Organization. It generally serves a single county or even a single city. They are GENERALLY in cities or counties if 250,000 thousand or more. Sometimes they extend to the suburbs and or adjacent counties that are in the same metropolitan area.
Larger counties may belong to both.
I guess I am just confused because Tulsa's planning org is called "Indian Nations Council of Governments" or INCOG.
Quote from: swake on December 30, 2023, 08:48:15 PM
Quote from: bwana39 on December 30, 2023, 02:28:17 PM
Quote from: swake on December 30, 2023, 01:56:45 PM
What is the difference between a COG and a MPO?
COG is a Council of Governments. It generally covers rural counties and regional feeder hub counties. They generally cover several counties that the aggregate population is less than a million.
A MPO is a Municipal Planning Organization. It generally serves a single county or even a single city. They are GENERALLY in cities or counties if 250,000 thousand or more. Sometimes they extend to the suburbs and or adjacent counties that are in the same metropolitan area.
Larger counties may belong to both.
I guess I am just confused because Tulsa's planning org is called "Indian Nations Council of Governments" or INCOG.
A COG can act as an MPO as well; it just doesn't have to do so.
From your INCOG example (https://www.incog.org/AboutUs/about.html):
QuoteTransportation Planning and Programs. INCOG is the Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) for the Tulsa area. As such, INCOG facilitates a cooperative effort with federal, state, and local governments and other transportation agencies to assess the area's transportation requirements and to develop comprehensive, multi-modal plans and programs that address the needs and goals of the region.{/quote]
FYI.
https://www.governing.com/infrastructure/oklahoma-task-force-recommends-implementing-per-mile-road-tax
Oklahoma's constitution requires that any tax increase pass both houses of the Legislature with a 3/4 majority. That's a higher threshold than is required in the Senate to remove an impeached President from office. Not happening any time soon.
Bobby5280, here is some good news for you:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53482472363_69d6035738_w.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pu4DJt)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53481429152_08a828d1b8.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2ptYiC5)
At least that's some progress on the red tape side of things. I don't know how many more months it will take for the winning bid to be chosen and for actual construction to begin.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on January 23, 2024, 01:48:40 PM
At least that's some progress on the red tape side of things. I don't know how many more months it will take for the winning bid to be chosen and for actual construction to begin.
It was awarded November 16:
Quote
Contract Amt:$2,415,000.00 Contractor: Haskell Lemon Group, LLC
Oklahoma City, OK
Bobby5280, have you seen this?
https://clients.freese.com/ODT20738/
I knew they were planning some kind of "band-aid" project for Rogers Lane. The document you linked confirms the modest details.
The storage bay extension for left turn lanes at the 38th Street intersection could only be an interim solution. This is ODOT's response for traffic back-ups that extend up the hillside both East and West of the intersection. Other vehicles crest over the hill and suddenly see a traffic jam and can't hit the brakes in time. BOOM.
The 38th Street & Rogers Lane intersection absolutely needs to be replaced with a freeway style exit.
The hooded left turns along Rogers Lane won't do too awful much to improve safety. They'll help in one respect by blocking traffic from taking at-grade left turns out of neighborhoods where the visibility is low. But vehicles bolting out to take a right turn into Rogers Lane can pose just as much a hazard.
Anyone can look at overhead Google Earth imagery and see the ample amount of vacant land next to the North edge of Rogers Lane and Lawton. Between the Sheridan Road and Fort Sill Blvd exits it's easy to see how the Rogers Lane main lanes veer off to the South rather than go straight like they would if it was a real freeway. Driving on Rogers Lane between Sheridan Road and Fort Sill Blvd feels like driving on a frontage road, not a highway.
The Army bulldozed a dirt boundary road on their side of the fence that left quite a bit of space between their fence line and that dirt road. The Army and Federal highway agencies just need to have a damned conversation. Sign some papers and move that fence North about 150'. That would at least open the possibility however distant it might be that Rogers Lane can be fixed properly.
What a fucking joke.
https://clients.freese.com/ODT20738/
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 05, 2024, 06:23:04 PM
What a fucking joke.
https://clients.freese.com/ODT20738/
Huh?
Quote from: Rothman on February 05, 2024, 06:25:30 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 05, 2024, 06:23:04 PM
What a fucking joke.
https://clients.freese.com/ODT20738/
Huh?
Rogers Lane being a fucking joke (and apparently continuing to be so) is an ongoing sore spot amongst the Oklahoma delegation.
Quote from: Scott5114 on February 05, 2024, 06:31:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 05, 2024, 06:25:30 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 05, 2024, 06:23:04 PM
What a fucking joke.
https://clients.freese.com/ODT20738/
Huh?
Rogers Lane being a fucking joke (and apparently continuing to be so) is an ongoing sore spot amongst the Oklahoma delegation.
It's horrible. I don't really understand why ODOT is even doing this. Why not just save the money towards actual improvements? They clearly haven't cared for the last two decades about it. This seems like a project that should have been included with the original road(assuming it was built at the same time the army base was). Oklahoma really needs to invest a bit more in Lawton.
I think it would be more surprising if ODOT did something we did understand.
The current version of Rogers Lane was built in the 1988-92 time frame. A two-lane street and dirt road divided Fort Sill and Lawton prior to that time.
I think it will probably take a multi-fatality accident on Rogers Lane to get the attention of any "lawmakers" in the state capitol. And even then they'll probably just offer more table scraps than anything of substance.
Chances of multi-fatality accidents on Rogers Lane are going to increase in the years ahead. ODOT has a project in the works to add a new freeway exit on US-62 to connect with a North extension of Goodyear Blvd. The Lawton area is home to Goodyear's largest tire production facility. Several other companies operate industrial facilities out West by Goodyear's plant. A cobalt refining facility is probably going to be built out there. Right now most trucks head out of Lawton going South on 82nd Street to OK-36 and then I-44. 82nd Street is horrible. Trucks are getting damaged using it. When that new exit on US-62 opens it's going to route a whole lot more trucks onto Rogers Lane. Certain intersections such as 38th Street will become more dangerous.
Our state's elected officials love to wrap themselves in the American flag. But they really don't do much for communities with large military populations. Lawton probably has a higher percentage of active duty and retired military people than any other city in Oklahoma. Yet it gets neglected by the state big time. Not just on streets and highways either. Lawton really gets screwed on public education funding. I was raised as a "Marine Corps brat" and attended grade schools on Marine bases at some of the duty stations where we lived. DOD-operated schools were pretty much always better than schools off base. So it's kind of surprising to me that the Army doesn't already have its own K-12 schools on Fort Sill. Lawton's school district educates the military kids but routinely gets stiffed on "impact aid" from the feds. People in Edmond will laugh and say, "why can't you guys in Lawton do something about your schools?" Those people need such a slap.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 05, 2024, 08:21:11 PM
The current version of Rogers Lane was built in the 1988-92 time frame. A two-lane street and dirt road divided Fort Sill and Lawton prior to that time.
I think it will probably take a multi-fatality accident on Rogers Lane to get the attention of any "lawmakers" in the state capitol. And even then they'll probably just offer more table scraps than anything of substance.
Chances of multi-fatality accidents on Rogers Lane are going to increase in the years ahead. ODOT has a project in the works to add a new freeway exit on US-62 to connect with a North extension of Goodyear Blvd. The Lawton area is home to Goodyear's largest tire production facility. Several other companies operate industrial facilities out West by Goodyear's plant. A cobalt refining facility is probably going to be built out there. Right now most trucks head out of Lawton going South on 82nd Street to OK-36 and then I-44. 82nd Street is horrible. Trucks are getting damaged using it. When that new exit on US-62 opens it's going to route a whole lot more trucks onto Rogers Lane. Certain intersections such as 38th Street will become more dangerous.
Our state's elected officials love to wrap themselves in the American flag. But they really don't do much for communities with large military populations. Lawton probably has a higher percentage of active duty and retired military people than any other city in Oklahoma. Yet it gets neglected by the state big time. Not just on streets and highways either. Lawton really gets screwed on public education funding. I was raised as a "Marine Corps brat" and attended grade schools on Marine bases at some of the duty stations where we lived. DOD-operated schools were pretty much always better than schools off base. So it's kind of surprising to me that the Army doesn't already have its own K-12 schools on Fort Sill. Lawton's school district educates the military kids but routinely gets stiffed on "impact aid" from the feds. People in Edmond will laugh and say, "why can't you guys in Lawton do something about your schools?" Those people need such a slap.
DODEA very likely doesn't operate schools on Ft. Sill because, unlike places like Fort Liberty (NC), there weren't that many issues with school segregation in Lawton Public Schools that would cause DODEA to operate their own on-base schools.
As for the alleged "inadequate" condition of Rogers Lane/US 62: Unless the US Army plans to greatly expand artillery training and artillery host units on post, there's not much justification for additional exits or freewayizing the road. With Ft. Sill having a direct I-44 exit, the justification for additional exits on Rogers Ln. becomes even less.
They really need to at least make the intersections grade separated. Hell a super two would probably be better than a four lane road with at grade intersections and substandard designs. ODOT also really should get on the ball with a SW super two as well.
Fort Sill has been expanded quite a lot over the past 20 years. One of the more recent additions was the Air Defense Artillery School. People at Fort Bliss fought like hell to keep the ADA school from moving. The Counter UAS program (drones) is moving from Yuma to Fort Sill. It's likely more missions will be relocated to Fort Sill due to the lower cost of living and lower cost of doing business.
Let's also remember Lawton is not a small town. There is nearly 100,000 people living within the city limits. Rogers Lane has the US-62 designation now (US-62 used to be routed on Cache Road). US-62 goes out to the growing town of Cache (cough: white flight) as well as Altus and the Air Force Base there. As I said earlier, the industrial park on Lawton's West side will be directly connected into US-62 via a new exit. That will equal a bunch of trucks using Rogers Lane that aren't using it currently.
Speaking of Fort Sill's access to I-44, it could be better. The old Key Gate exit (exit 41) is pretty damn old. The bridges carrying the main lanes have no shoulders. Pretty much all of I-44 as it passes by the Polo Field is obsolete, not up to current standards. ODOT modified the Rogers Lane/I-44 exit. But the changes aren't all that great. They've already had a good number of wipe-outs on that new loop ramp from Northbound I-44 to Westbound Rogers Lane. Exiting traffic is on a long, straight exit lane that suddenly ends at a 25mph loop. Anyone taking that exit ramp and not paying good attention could have a wreck.
US-412 and US-81 in Enid are due to be reconstructed with ADA improvements in 2028 and 2031, respectively.
https://www.publicinput.com/us-412enid#tab-47951
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on February 20, 2024, 09:18:01 PM
US-412 and US-81 in Enid are due to be reconstructed with ADA improvements in 2028 and 2031, respectively.
https://www.publicinput.com/us-412enid#tab-47951
Probably right about the time they get a mess of those rideshare scooters distributed about town. Seems to be the most common use of sidewalks and ramps in nearly every town.
OTA will have to get a new director, and Stitt will have to get a new Transportation Secretary, because Tim Gatz doing all three at the same time was apparently illegal (despite Gary Ridley and Neal McCaleb having held the trifecta too).
https://nondoc.com/2024/02/28/ag-opinion-prompts-odot-director-tim-gatz-to-resign-as-cabinet-secretary-ota-director/
Quote from: brad2971 on February 05, 2024, 09:26:46 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on February 05, 2024, 08:21:11 PM
The current version of Rogers Lane was built in the 1988-92 time frame. A two-lane street and dirt road divided Fort Sill and Lawton prior to that time.
As for the alleged "inadequate" condition of Rogers Lane/US 62: Unless the US Army plans to greatly expand artillery training and artillery host units on post, there's not much justification for additional exits or freewayizing the road. With Ft. Sill having a direct I-44 exit, the justification for additional exits on Rogers Ln. becomes even less.
"Alleged"? Fort Sill isn't the traffic generator for Rogers Lane. What you aren't seeing is the amount of traffic coming from OKC headed to Altus. There is a very large AFB there. Add in the locals trying to get over to the industrial area by Goodyear and rightfully having an aversion to using "Crash" Road and Rogers Lane generates more than enough traffic to at the very least justify putting in grade separations at the major intersections.
Rogers Lane does carry a good amount of traffic entering and leaving Fort Sill. It tends to come and go in surges. One of the biggest rushes of traffic is very early in the morning. A large number of active duty and retired military personnel and families live in Lawton and Cache. They frequently visit Fort Sill to shop for groceries at the commissary or access other services. Bentley Gate on Sheridan Road might be the most heavily traveled entrance on Fort Sill. Many motorists will take Rogers Lane to the Sheridan Road exit to get there.
There is a decent amount of military related traffic moving between Fort Sill and Altus AFB. And a good bit of vehicle traffic from those two military installations goes up to Tinker AFB in OKC.
I'm skeptical the modest upgrades proposed along Rogers Lane will be of much help. I'm hoping that could be an interim solution and that ODOT will do more substantial things at key locations. The 38th Street intersection with Rogers Lane really needs to be a grade-separated freeway exit. That intersection is going to be dangerous once the truck traffic increases after that new Goodyear Blvd exit on US-62 is completed. The intersection with 67th Street isn't much better. That privacy wall built along one corner of the intersection creates quite a blind spot.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5ppNhkqDEQEYY4eT7
Despite the Downstream Casino being in Oklahoma and the access road passing through Kansas to connect the casino resort with Missouri, still you can see visible evidence on the pavement of state jurisdiction change between OK and KS. Considering the casino management ( the Tribe that is) maintains all of Née Road in both states as well as Downstream Blvd in Missouri, one type of asphalt would be maintained in all three states.
Look at the link and you can make out the state line at the all way stop intersection.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 02, 2024, 02:40:05 AMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/5ppNhkqDEQEYY4eT7
Despite the Downstream Casino being in Oklahoma and the access road passing through Kansas to connect the casino resort with Missouri, still you can see visible evidence on the pavement of state jurisdiction change between OK and KS. Considering the casino management ( the Tribe that is) maintains all of Née Road in both states as well as Downstream Blvd in Missouri, one type of asphalt would be maintained in all three states.
Look at the link and you can make out the state line at the all way stop intersection.
They have a tri-state marker just off Nee road that is pretty neat.
There are actually two markers there. One is the old stone marker. Some people joke it looks like a big stone dildo. There is a newer marker on the ground a few yards away located exactly at the spot where the three state corners meet.
Quote from: roadman65 on April 02, 2024, 02:40:05 AMhttps://maps.app.goo.gl/5ppNhkqDEQEYY4eT7
Despite the Downstream Casino being in Oklahoma and the access road passing through Kansas to connect the casino resort with Missouri, still you can see visible evidence on the pavement of state jurisdiction change between OK and KS. Considering the casino management ( the Tribe that is) maintains all of Née Road in both states as well as Downstream Blvd in Missouri, one type of asphalt would be maintained in all three states.
Look at the link and you can make out the state line at the all way stop intersection.
I think you're seeing where they just happened to stop a repaving project, which is at the state line because it's coincidentally a convenient place to leave off.
Either that or it was repaved using a grant that only allows the money to be used inside the Quapaw tribe's service area (i.e. not outside of Oklahoma). I'm not sure whether those sorts of grants can be used for maintenance of for-profit properties like casinos, however.
Good news for Southern Oklahoma - ODOT will move forward with planning for a new 4-lane bridge across Lake Texoma to the south of the existing Roosevelt Bridge, which was built in 1942 and will remain. ODOT is looking to offload the old bridge onto a nonprofit or other entity that would then preserve it and perhaps open it up for fishing or other activities.
ODOT selects new 4-lane alignment for US-70 Roosevelt Bridge replacement (https://www.kxii.com/2024/04/10/odot-build-new-roosevelt-bridge-keep-existing-bridge/)
I said this about Rogers Lane recently:
Quote from: Bobby5280The intersection with 67th Street isn't much better. That privacy wall built along one corner of the intersection creates quite a blind spot.
On Monday a fatal t-bone collision happened at that intersection:
https://www.kswo.com/2024/04/16/update-lpd-releases-information-over-mondays-deadly-crash/?tbref=hpApparently the motorist who died was attempting to turn left from Northbound 67th Street onto Westbound Rogers Lane. His vehicle was broadsided by a vehicle traveling Eastbound. They had Rogers Lane closed off a mile in each direction from the site of the crash for several hours.
As I said, the SW corner of the intersection is closely bordered by a solid privacy wall. The wall borders a neighborhood with huge, high priced homes. As if the blind spot wasn't bad enough, a cluster of trees on the other side of the privacy wall makes the blind spot worse.
LPD hasn't said who was at fault. It's likely someone tried running a red light. I hate the timing of the traffic signals on Rogers Lane. You'll catch the red lights far more often that not. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy trying to turn left onto WB Rogers Lane got hit by someone who pressed the accelerator when he saw his green light turn yellow.
I guarantee we're going to see more grisly accidents happen on Rogers Lane once all that trucking traffic from Goodyear and other parts of the West side industrial park start using it. When Goodyear Blvd is extended to a new freeway exit on US-62 the traffic on Rogers Lane will become very different.
Such a shame. Oklahoma just acts like the SW part of the state doesn't exist.
More like Oklahoma acts like anything that isn't in the median of Lincoln Boulevard doesn't exist. I'm not exactly sure what constituency the state government thinks it's serving, but it's not Oklahomans.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 18, 2024, 08:08:41 AMSuch a shame. Oklahoma just acts like the SW part of the state doesn't exist.
Oh wow. It's hard to know where to start. Just let me pick myself up off the floor after passing out from laughter.
SW OK is the
KING of 100% pork barrel highway spending. US183 was twinned south from Snyder to Frederick because a former Speaker of the House lived in Frederick. He and others are also the reason for 183 to be twinned from Snyder north to Clinton. Both were a complete waste of money. Same goes for twinning OK6 north from Altus to Elk City. Traffic counts didn't warrant it but legislators from that area convinced others that the Air Force would close Altus AFB if the road wasn't twinned. They also used the old "economic development" saw. Can't see it's made much of a difference in Altus.
Just because Lawton "seems" to be getting the short end of the stick from ODOT doesn't mean the rest of the SW quadrant is ignored.
We must be living in 2 different universes. Then because from what i've seen, the issue hardly extends to lawton Only. The 4 lane highway bullshit that is built is a statewide thing Oklahoma does. If a lot of money is being spent there it doesn't show.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 19, 2024, 09:34:36 PMWe must be living in 2 different universes.
Given the states you two hail from, yes.
Quote from: rte66manJust because Lawton "seems" to be getting the short end of the stick from ODOT doesn't mean the rest of the SW quadrant is ignored.
Lawton has been getting the short end of the stick for a LOT of things, including highway funding. There is no "seems" about it. And, yeah, Rogers Lane absolutely is going to get a lot more dangerous to drive on once all those trucks from Goodyear and the other industrial plants have direct access to it.
I'll agree about Loyd Benson unfairly pulling strings to get US-183 four-laned from Frederick to Snyder over 20 years ago. But quite a bit of US-183 from Snyder to Clinton is still 2-laned. ODOT has been slowly expanding segments of it. A section South of New Cordell is pretty new. Back in the 1990's some state lawmakers and other rich people with connections were trying to get new turnpikes built from Snyder to Clinton and from Duncan to Davis. Those efforts failed. OK-7 is four-laned between Lawton and Duncan (and rightfully so), but OK-7 is still a 2-lane road from Duncan to Davis.
Overall, that hardly makes Southwest Oklahoma the "king of pork barrel spending" on highway funding.
Oklahoma has all kinds of other sections of 4-lane divided rural highways elsewhere around the state. Some of the rural 4-lane projects that have been built were built due to fatal collisions happening in certain locations. I know for a fact the 4-lane expansion of OK-49 in Medicine Park (from I-44 to the OK-58 intersection) was done in response to a rising number head-on collisions there.
I was amazed at how quiet the concrete pavement of I-35 in Northern OKC is. What's ODOT's trick?
Longitudinal grooves instead of transverse grooves. It's the standard now and why newer concrete highways don't "sing" like ones built 30 years ago.
I noticed that in Vinita, OK the city signs the US 60/69 overlap on traffic lights as SH 66. Ditto on I-44 guides using a SH 66 shield for the Vinita exit.
Yet there are no state highway 66 shields used along the route itself.
Does OK SH 66 continue east of US 60 or not?
AFAIK it has always ended at US 60 west of Vinita. I believe the SH 66 shields in Vinita are in error, as is typical for Oklahoma. They were probably meant to be Historic Route 66 shields instead.
The AARoads Wiki article on SH 66 fills in the gaps of what I didn't say quite nicely.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 07, 2024, 01:04:31 PMLongitudinal grooves instead of transverse grooves. It's the standard now and why newer concrete highways don't "sing" like ones built 30 years ago.
The process is called tining, as in tines like on a fork. What they lack in singing, they make up for with jerking your car around if the lines are not particularly straight.
Quote from: CoreySamson on June 08, 2024, 07:01:47 PMAFAIK it has always ended at US 60 west of Vinita. I believe the SH 66 shields in Vinita are in error, as is typical for Oklahoma. They were probably meant to be Historic Route 66 shields instead.
The AARoads Wiki article on SH 66 fills in the gaps of what I didn't say quite nicely.
The street blades on the signals say SH 66. No shields except for the guides on I-44 at Vinita.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/peRqEZj5EiWogJHDA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/fe4TduFQXoj8MxuD8
Then on the Exit 329 ramp end you have a SH 66 and Historic US 66 shield.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1mBifFBHDThdi2xt7
Quote from: Scott5114 on September 10, 2023, 05:42:16 PMI'm guessing the first digits being 3s has more to do with the fact that all of the recently-assigned toll road numbers start with 3 than anything having to do with actual Interstate numbering rules.
As a result, OK-325's number becomes even more annoying. (Can we have OK-456, please?)
What about US 377?
Speaking of US 377, as everyone likely knows, it unofficially ends in Stroud (the official northern terminus of 377 is in Madill at US 70). Does US 377 really need to be co-designated with OK 99 between the Oklahoma/Texas border and Stroud? I would understand the Madill-Stroud segment remaining co-designated, since Oklahoma extended 377 in 1988 without AASHTO's approval. However, I think the co-current 99/377 designations should just be part of 377 south of Madill.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 22, 2024, 02:42:25 PMI would understand the Madill-Stroud segment remaining co-designated, since Oklahoma extended 377 in 1988 without AASHTO's approval.
As they were required to by Congress.
Quote from: I-35 on April 11, 2024, 12:13:32 PMGood news for Southern Oklahoma - ODOT will move forward with planning for a new 4-lane bridge across Lake Texoma to the south of the existing Roosevelt Bridge, which was built in 1942 and will remain. ODOT is looking to offload the old bridge onto a nonprofit or other entity that would then preserve it and perhaps open it up for fishing or other activities.
ODOT selects new 4-lane alignment for US-70 Roosevelt Bridge replacement (https://www.kxii.com/2024/04/10/odot-build-new-roosevelt-bridge-keep-existing-bridge/)
This project just received $124 million from the feds and is scheduled to start construction in 2029. It would be nice if they could speed it up, but ODOT already has so much on their plate GIVEN HOW POORLY THEY'RE FUNDED I CAN'T REALLY BLAME THEM. Either way, this is great news. Sorry for the uppercase my phone just decided that sentence needed to be up because I'm using Speech to text and I'm too lazy to change it.
Here's the press release:
QuoteThe White House announced Wednesday the Oklahoma Department of Transportation will receive a $124 million Large Bridge Project award through the Federal Highway Administration's Bridge Investment Program for the replacement of the US-70 Roosevelt Bridge across Lake Texoma between Kingston and Durant in Southeastern Oklahoma.
The grants, a part of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, will fund the reconstruction, repair and restoration of 13 nationally significant bridges spanning 16 states.
Oklahoma Department of Transportation Executive Director Tim Gatz said this is the largest transportation grant Oklahoma has been awarded in its history. The award surpasses the $85 million National Infrastructure Project Assistance (MEGA program) grant received in January 2023 that went toward the I-44 and US-75 interchange improvements in Tulsa. The final phase of that funding amount will be let to bid in September.
"This is exciting news for the state and we're grateful to Gov. Stitt and members of Oklahoma's Congressional and Legislative delegation and the Federal Highway Administration for seeing the importance of this corridor and helping the department secure an additional funding source," Gatz said. "The Roosevelt Memorial bridge is an outdated design - nearly 80 years old - and doesn't meet current or future traffic needs."
The project will improve the efficiency and reliability of moving people and freight, increase resiliency to flooding and increase safety through a potential pedestrian and bicycle crossing. Plans are to build the bridge to the south of the existing structure while keeping the current bridge open to traffic. The new bridge will be four lanes with shoulders, rumble strips and lighting. ODOT is proposing new and innovative alternative delivery methods with construction currently scheduled in the Eight-Year Construction Work Plan to begin in 2029. The bridge carries 8,500 vehicles per day.
Although half of the estimated cost of the project is coming from this grant, House Bill 2915, passed in the 2024 legislative session, allows the department the ability to bond up to $200 million against the project, which is currently estimated to cost more than $250 million. The legislation provides an opportunity to consider advancement of the project in the annual Eight-Year Plan, currently under rebalance and expected to be released this fall.
"We are committed to this priority project and want to move it forward as responsibly and as expeditiously as possible to meet the needs of the surrounding communities," Gatz said.
- https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2024/major-grant-secured-for-us-70-roosevelt-memorial-bridge-replacem.html
This is great news. I, like you, wish that the process could be brought forward to 2025-2026, but it's good to know that funding is in place for at least a hefty portion of the project.
Had a good chuckle on this vertical clearance sign in Tulsa...
30'11" (30 feet, 11 inches)
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1658569,-95.8601413,3a,37.5y,245.39h,105.73t/am=t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTcxbJAuqpmE3wD08aTOttA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-15.731679121946357%26panoid%3DTcxbJAuqpmE3wD08aTOttA%26yaw%3D245.39002122090346!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTExMy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
I don't think I've ever seen clearance height signs on any overpasses other than ones over surface streets. Has anyone else seen one like this?
Texas does it on non-surface streets a lot:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/3Q9JeA8K7sFZx9dK9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/HMoQ5zhgMTqN4haL7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/GqYGrrJdggnwuTtn8
I've seen some pretty tall marked ones too (up over 20 feet). Oklahoma also does it frequently.
Oklahoma marks the height of every overpass, presumably because if they didn't, they might end up not marking one that they needed to.
I've never heard of this term used before, but apparently they are going to perform a "walk audit" to determine how well the walk ability is along US-259 in Hochatown which just recently voted to become incorporated.
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about-us/public-meetings/2024/20241126.html
Heh. Haven't heard that term since I was a paralegal. Our firm represented BNSF and we'd hire a consultant to do a "walk audit" of a segment of track.
Of course, individuals who were in that business were a bit eccentric. One CV of "Harold Smith" read:
1995: I left Nicholas, Harding and Hathaway Associates to start Harold Smith and Associates.
1996: I returned to Nicholas, Harding and Hathaway Associates.
Given that Hochatown consists of random businesses quickly thrown up along the side of a two-lane state highway with nearly zero planning, I imagine they'll find a lot of things to take issue with.
I also don't expect ODOT to care.
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 25, 2024, 06:34:53 PMGiven that Hochatown consists of random businesses quickly thrown up along the side of a two-lane state highway with nearly zero planning, I imagine they'll find a lot of things to take issue with.
I also don't expect ODOT to care.
Au contraire...
https://clients.freese.com/US259HochatownUpdate/
It's interesting they're proposing that kind of work on such an out of the way location. I wonder if it's really meant to improve access in and out of the new Choctaw Landing Casino. Also, is any of this funding coming from stuff like federal grants?
In the big picture view, Oklahoma does seem to be getting a little more serious about improving walk-ability in various cities and towns. Lawton has a lot of catch-up work to do in regard to building sidewalks along major arterials. The city has one on-going project in multiple locations along Cache Road. They've added sidewalks in some other locations around town. And they're finally getting close to finishing a new pedestrian bridge next to Gore Blvd going over I-44. That has been very long overdue. There was finally enough public outcry over people getting hit while trying to jay-walk across I-44.
I did something really really stupid one time on I-5 near Atwater Village and Griffith Park. So I was working as a scare actor for the haunted hayride. We got off around two or three in the morning and the Uber couldn't get past the gates cause they close down Griffith Park Drive. So I had this genius idea of having an Uber driver go to the other side of five and cross the river. I walked across the 5 and successfully made it to the median. Once I got to the median, I realized what I just did was extremely fucking stupid. I froze up and got scared as I looked at both side sides of me five lanes of traffic each way with cars going 80 mph. I did successfully make it to the other side, but not without almost getting hit. Never again while I try to cross the freeway on foot.
That is just about one of the dumbest things anyone can do and yet I see people do it all the fucking time, especially in Oklahoma. But man when I got to the median and hopped over the concrete divider, I froze for a good five minutes thinking I just made myself a Darwin award candidate. It would've been much more worthwhile for me just spending the extra time walking down Griffith Park Drive to the gates close to Los Feliz Blvd.
That sounds pretty terrifying. It's risky enough as it is just walking across a median-divided freeway with 2 lanes in each direction. I couldn't imagine trying to get across 10 solid lanes with only a concrete Jersey barrier going down the middle.
Of course the situation can be funny as hell, as demonstrated in this movie scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZSIwR1qA1c
I couldn't believe all the assholes in Lawton complaining about "wasteful spending" for a pedestrian bridge next to Gore Blvd. The jerks would complain the street already had sidewalks when in fact those "sidewalks" were nothing more than street curbs next to the bridge railings. Gore Blvd is THE main arterial street connection between the East and West sides of Lawton, with I-44 being the divider for the two sides of town. There absolutely has to be pedestrian access there. Anything less is just hateful negligence. My only complaint about the new pedestrian bridge is it uses a pretty ugly looking box-truss structure. But it's better than nothing.
Speaking of not great, but better than nothing, that's how those sidewalk designs along US-259 in Hochatown look. The renderings have the sidewalks positioned right along the edge of the highway without any green space between.
It was one of the dumbest things that I've ever done and I'll never do something like that again.
I ran across the George Washington Parkway in Virginia once. Got halfway, sat on the stone wall median barrier and then ran across the other lanes.
Wouldn't do it again, but it was worth it the one time to learn I'd never to do it again. :D
Quote from: rte66man on November 25, 2024, 10:42:54 PMQuote from: Scott5114 on November 25, 2024, 06:34:53 PMGiven that Hochatown consists of random businesses quickly thrown up along the side of a two-lane state highway with nearly zero planning, I imagine they'll find a lot of things to take issue with.
I also don't expect ODOT to care.
Oh contraire...
https://clients.freese.com/US259HochatownUpdate/
When Oklahoma City had walkability concerns about what is now Oklahoma City Boulevard, ODOT told them to pound sand and if they wanted to do anything about it they could fix it themselves after it got transferred to them. I don't really think Hochatown has more sway than OKC in terms of actually getting anything done, but I guess there's enough rich Texans in Hochatown that they have to at least pretend to care before laughing in their face.
Quote from: rte66man on November 25, 2024, 10:42:54 PMOh contraire...
https://clients.freese.com/US259HochatownUpdate/
Being a native French speaker, I feel the need to mention that it should be "
au contraire".
I made the dumbass decision to cross I-44 at the "dead man's curve" as a kid on a bicycle to go to the pond that used to be behind the old drive-in movie theater that used to be there. That was my first and last time to do that. Those cars seemed like they were moving 100 mph LOL.
A vehicle traveling at 70mph is covering 102.66 feet per second. That's a lotta ground. In more relatable terms it means a 120 yard (or 360') long football field will be crossed at that speed in about 3.5 seconds. When a vehicle is moving at 70mph or faster it's harder to judge if it's safe to cross ahead of it before the vehicle reaches that crossing point. And that's during daylight hours. If it's after dusk and the jaywalker/pedestrian is looking at headlights in the distance it's even more difficult to make a safe judgment. It's just better to not even try to jaywalk across the freeway at all.
Meanwhile, here in Lawton various assholes are still bitching online about the "wasted money" for the pedestrian bridge over I-44. Their common refrain is the "socialist" government people are making it easier for the "loser" pedestrians to walk over I-44 to the casinos to gamble away their money. The jerks don't bother to think of all the service industry workers who have jobs in that areas who are having to hoof-it from home to work. I'll see people in motorized wheelchairs trying to cross the Gore Blvd bridge over I-44.
We just really have some completely hateful assholes in Lawton. The splinters festering in their infected colons must really hurt bad. Maybe they could pull the stick out already.
I'm surprised at the amount of people that I see walking on the shoulders of freeways in Oklahoma. I mean, I witnessed it multiple times a day. It seems like they're pretty strict about that in California for CHP officer. See someone doing that they will stop them. I'm assuming they just put them in the back of their car and take them off the highway, but I don't know if they get ticketed or not.
Sign replacement coming to the I-35/44 overlap in OKC! On the January 2025 letting from ODOT (January 16th)...
Edit: Yes, the new signs will include the I-344 designation on the JKT.
A sign commemorating the 100th anniversary of US-66 was installed in Oklahoma City:
https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-city-route-66-sign-centennial/63026112
The sign was designed by the same guy who designed the Skydance pedestrian bridge over I-40 near Bricktown. The sign looks okay, but Arial? Really? Why the ugly default font?
I can understand a choice of not using the standard Series Gothic typeface due to the limitations in those fonts. Anyone with an Adobe Creative Cloud account can sync the entire Interstate type family. I would say the sculptor should stick to what he's good at doing and leave sign design to the people who do that for a living. But then so many people doing sign design work don't give a damn at all either. Hence the squeezed and stretched default Arial we see all over the place in things like tenant signs, banners, etc.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on December 15, 2024, 11:48:08 AMA sign commemorating the 100th anniversary of US-66 was installed in Oklahoma City:
https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-city-route-66-sign-centennial/63026112
The sign was designed by the same guy who designed the Skydance pedestrian bridge over I-40 near Bricktown. The sign looks okay, but Arial? Really? Why the ugly default font?
I can understand a choice of not using the standard Series Gothic typeface due to the limitations in those fonts. Anyone with an Adobe Creative Cloud account can sync the entire Interstate type family. I would say the sculptor should stick to what he's good at doing and leave sign design to the people who do that for a living. But then so many people doing sign design work don't give a damn at all either. Hence the squeezed and stretched default Arial we see all over the place in things like tenant signs, banners, etc.
US-66 1926 to 2026? The highway was decommissioned in 1985.
The route was decommissioned as a US Highway in 1985. But portions of it remained signed as state highways and, at least in Oklahoma's case, as "Historic US Highway 66".
I think it was stupid for them to decommission the US Highway. I can understand the feds taking some US Highways off the books. But the historical significance of US-66 made it worth preserving.
I'm just shocked that people believe Oklahoma has a sign standard.
(https://i0.wp.com/signsbyjake.com/wp-content/uploads/GSOK9CGC.jpg?fit=1512%2C1512&ssl=1)
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on December 15, 2024, 04:54:05 AMSign replacement coming to the I-35/44 overlap in OKC! On the January 2025 letting from ODOT (January 16th)...
Edit: Yes, the new signs will include the I-344 designation on the JKT.
Where did you see this?
Quote from: jdingus on December 18, 2024, 01:43:29 PMQuote from: Great Lakes Roads on December 15, 2024, 04:54:05 AMSign replacement coming to the I-35/44 overlap in OKC! On the January 2025 letting from ODOT (January 16th)...
Edit: Yes, the new signs will include the I-344 designation on the JKT.
Where did you see this?
https://www.odot.org/contracts/2025/25011601/plans_prelim/245_2501_STP-252F%28109%29PM_3386005.pdf
Here you go!
Thank you where do you find the plans at?
Quote from: jdingus on December 18, 2024, 08:40:17 PMThank you where do you find the plans at?
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/business-center/contracts-and-proposals.html
Here, on a new and improved website...
sweet thank you
Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 26, 2024, 12:07:50 PMIt's interesting they're proposing that kind of work on such an out of the way location. I wonder if it's really meant to improve access in and out of the new Choctaw Landing Casino. Also, is any of this funding coming from stuff like federal grants?
In the big picture view, Oklahoma does seem to be getting a little more serious about improving walk-ability in various cities and towns.
While it seems out-of-the way.It has gone from a sleepy outpost to a major resort destination in the last decade. There are more Airbnb's, VRBO's, and other short term rentals than anyone can imagine. The new casino came AFTER the rush. It is a hotbed of a resort destination with the added distraction of the casino. Honestly, the casino may be a deterrent to the craziness, not an adder. THis place has blown up like Branson.
Quote from: bwana39 on December 21, 2024, 11:57:17 AMQuote from: Bobby5280 on November 26, 2024, 12:07:50 PMIt's interesting they're proposing that kind of work on such an out of the way location. I wonder if it's really meant to improve access in and out of the new Choctaw Landing Casino. Also, is any of this funding coming from stuff like federal grants?
In the big picture view, Oklahoma does seem to be getting a little more serious about improving walk-ability in various cities and towns.
While it seems out-of-the way.It has gone from a sleepy outpost to a major resort destination in the last decade. There are more Airbnb's, VRBO's, and other short term rentals than anyone can imagine. The new casino came AFTER the rush. It is a hotbed of a resort destination with the added distraction of the casino. Honestly, the casino may be a deterrent to the craziness, not an adder. THis place has blown up like Branson.
It's a zoo on summer weekends. VERY dangerous due to clueless pedestrians
A new regional transportation planning board to be formed for SW Oklahoma. Hopefully this leads to Lawton getting some well needed and deserved upgrades to its comical road network:
QuoteThe Oklahoma Department of Transportation has designated the South Western Oklahoma Development Authority (SWODA) Board of Trustees as the first regional transportation planning organization in Oklahoma. This designation is a significant milestone in regional transportation planning and recognizes the Southwest Oklahoma Regional Transportation Planning Organization's (SORTPO) long-standing dedication to enhancing mobility and infrastructure across 16 counties in Southwest Oklahoma. The designation also highlights ODOT's commitment to facilitating regional transportation planning and public engagement in non-metropolitan areas.
Under the designation, SORTPO will oversee regional transportation planning for Beckham, Caddo, Comanche, Cotton, Custer, Grady, Greer, Harmon, Jackson, Jefferson, Kiowa, McClain, Roger Mills, Stephens, Tillman and Washita counties.
The designation also allows SORTPO to:
Identify and prioritize critical transportation improvements
Develop and maintain a long-range regional transportation plan and a short-term regional transportation improvement plan
Increase public engagement and input on transportation projects
"On behalf of our friends and neighbors from across southwest Oklahoma, SORTPO policymakers are hard at work planning for our future transportation system so that we can all enjoy the benefits of a smooth and well-functioning network of highways and railroads across our region," said SORTPO Transportation Policy Board Chair Ed Barry.
The Southwest Oklahoma Regional Transportation Organization Policy Board, consisting of local elected officials, public agency officials, tribal government leaders, railroad sector representatives, and economic development stakeholders, will serve as the forum for regional transportation decision-making.
"As a Custer County Commissioner, I have witnessed firsthand the value of regional transportation planning led by SWODA and SORTPO," said District 3 Washita County Commissioner Lyle Miller. "Long-range plans are instrumental in securing grants and funding for essential projects. Being designated as a Regional Transportation Planning Organization will further support these efforts and bring greater transportation opportunities to our communities."
The policy board will continue to guide regional transportation planning efforts by working closely with cities, counties, tribal governments, transit agencies, economic development organizations and other stakeholders to ensure that Southwest Oklahoma's transportation system is safe, efficient and responsive to community needs.
"With SORTPO overseeing Southwest Oklahoma planning efforts, they can develop more concise and public-driven plans across the region," said ODOT's Multi-Modal & Planning Division Engineer Jared Schwennesen. "We are excited to see what the future of regional transportation will become under the guidance of SORTPO."
For more information about SORTPO and its ongoing initiatives, visit www.sortpo.org.
I'm skeptical some new committee or board will make much of a difference in Southwest Oklahoma (particularly Lawton). Every road building/improvement effort here appears to be done at or near the minimum of what it takes just to get by.
Improvements on Rogers Lane involve getting rid of some left turn movements with at-grade intersections and building in a few Michigan Left U-turns nearby. So far ODOT and the City of Lawton hasn't done much with the project. It has also taken them way too long to finish the pedestrian bridge over I-44 next to Gore Blvd. The project has technically been finished and open for a couple months. Yet they still have construction speed limit signs in place on I-44 and a few orange barrels and other crap to pick up. It makes me wonder of if the DOGE people fired the road crew staff that was supposed to mop up on the end of this project.
Creek Turnpike to become I-644?
From the April 7th commission meeting:
"This item is necessitated by the request of INCOG and pursuant to Federal Public Law 109-59, Section 1908 9(a)(1) Creek Turnpike, Oklahoma. —The [FHWA] Secretary shall designate as part of the Interstate System (as defined in section 101 of title 23, United States Code) in accordance with section 103(c)(4) of such title the portion of the Creek Turnpike connection Interstate Route 44 east and west of Tulsa, Oklahoma.
a) Add the designation of I-644 to a 32.79-mile stretch of Turnpike known as the Creek Turnpike, beginning west of Tulsa at the Junction of I-44 and the Creek Turnpike and continuing to the east of Tulsa at the Junction of I-44 and the Creek Turnpike.
This designation addition to the highway system will result in no change to the overall highway system of Oklahoma. This revision will become effective upon approval by the State Transportation Commission, approval from the AASHTO Special Committee on Numbering, and approval from the FHWA. Approval is recommended."
Well so much for the 3xx numbering thing for Oklahoma toll roads. Maybe there is hope! I would love a new interstate in my back yard.
Facepalm. :rolleyes:
A bunch of that nonsense could have been avoided if the OTA hadn't painted itself into a corner with that stupid 3XX route numbering rule for state turnpikes. The method is okay, only so long as state highway designations are used. When Interstate designations are applied wackiness then ensues.
We ended up with the Kilpatrick Turnpike in OKC carrying an I-344 designation, despite the fact an OK-344 designation was already applied to the Gilcrease Expressway in Tulsa. It would have made more sense for the Kilpatrick to be numbered as something like I-440 or several other worthwhile options that didn't involve burning up I-x44 designations that would be better used in the Tulsa metro (or even Lawton, if such a thing was possible).
If/when the Gilcrease Expressway is fully built-out it might be able to carry an I-844 designation (which would be the only logical loop designation left for I-44 in Oklahoma).
Also, I-444 remains unsigned on the IDL around downtown Tulsa. Why did they choose to get the I-444 designation yet never use it? It seems to me if you don't use it you should lose it. More than half of existing I-244 could be set to disappear with the I-42 thing looming in the near future. It might actually represent a possibility to either re-route the I-244 designation or have I-444 replace whatever remains of I-244. Maybe I-444 could be applied to the Gilcrease Expressway, or even the Broken Arrow Expressway.
On the bright side, now that it looks like the OTA is ready to abandon the 3XX route numbering rule as it applies to Interstates, that opens the possibility other turnpikes in the OKC area may carry more logical designations. The East-West Connector Turnpike seems like a natural for a I-x35 designation, be it I-435 or I-835. We already have a I-635 nearby in Dallas.
I wonder if the OTA is ever going to request Interstate status for the other turnpikes.
If so, they'll have to get pretty creative if they want to stick to that I-3XX rule. I-42 is set to overlay the Cherokee Turnpike and the Cimarron Turnpike. It would be possible to re-number the Muskogee Turnpike as I-340. If the Indian Nation Turnpike was fully brought up to Interstate standards as another I-x40 route.
I can't see the Chickasaw Turnpike ever getting an Interstate designation; it's only 2 lanes wide and doesn't directly connect to another Interstate highway.
If the H.E. Bailey Turnpike extension wasn't so screwed up by terrible urban planning via OKC suburbs it could be worthy of a I-x44 or I-x35 designation -or even a I-x40 number if it could connect to or cross over I-40 in some practical manner.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 08, 2025, 10:33:39 PMt would have made more sense for the Kilpatrick to be numbered as something like I-440 or several other worthwhile options that didn't involve burning up I-x44 designations that would be better used in the Tulsa metro (or even Lawton, if such a thing was possible).
Why does this matter, now that Tulsa is going to have a brand new pack of x42s they can break into more or less whenever? Hell, you could make the Creek Turnpike I-242 instead of I-644 if you wanted to; it intersects the path of I-42 and signing a 3di before its parent is established accepted practice.
I mean, yeah, Lawton can still only use x44s, but I doubt you're ever going to need 144, 544, 744, 844,
and 944 in Lawton.
Nothing in substance has happened so far with the Western I-42 thing. The designation has been approved, but as far I as can tell no route signage has been installed. At this point only a tiny bit of I-42 could be signed in the Tulsa area (along I-244). Upgrades on US-412 are needed on the edges of Tulsa before I-42 signs can be installed. Those upgrades will probably take many years to complete. The OTA's ACCESS Oklahoma projects might be completed before then and before any I-x42 designations could be used.
That one pesky intersection at Diamond Head Dr. just east of the Arkansas River Bridge should be eliminated ASAP. Also, Exits 15 and 48 need to be reconfigured from their quadruple cloverleaf configurations. Outside of that, what other upgrades to the Interstate 35-to-Interstate 244 corridor would be needed to signpost the roadway as Interstate 42?
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 10, 2025, 11:35:53 AMThat one pesky intersection at Diamond Head Dr. just east of the Arkansas River Bridge should be eliminated ASAP.
I may have mentioned this before, but my solution would be for Diamond Head Dr to extend southeast, paralleling the highway, then intersect OK-151 to form a four-way intersection where Weikiwa Rd currently tees out.
(https://i.imgur.com/R3m2ZFK.png)
The state has earmarked $10 million in 2029 to redo the Diamondhead interchange.
Here's the state's deck with the alternative solutions. I have no idea what they have chosen.
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/meetings/a2023/231205/US-412_Diamond_Head_boards_2023-11-27.pdf
Quote from: swake on April 10, 2025, 12:16:42 PMThe state has earmarked $10 million in 2029 to redo the Diamondhead interchange.
Here's the state's deck with the alternative solutions. I have no idea what they have chosen.
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/meetings/a2023/231205/US-412_Diamond_Head_boards_2023-11-27.pdf
Oh hey, look, my idea is Alternative 2. :nod:
Quote from: The GhostbusterOutside of that, what other upgrades to the Interstate 35-to-Interstate 244 corridor would be needed to signpost the roadway as Interstate 42?
Between the East end of the Cimarron Turnpike and the IDL in Tulsa, the Sand Springs Expressway has all sorts of deficiencies that do not comply with current Interstate highway standards. Inner and outer shoulders are inadequate in many locations along that highway segment. The main lane pavement is in pretty poor condition much of the way as well.
The Sand Springs Expressway has a few exits with on/off ramps that are of outdated design. That includes exits for Old Keystone Road, Leroy Road, Peninsula North Drive, OK-97T/N 129 W Ave, Wilson Ave, 81st W Ave and S 65 W Ave. The other diamond interchanges along the way are passable.
Overall it is going to take a lot of work to improve the Sand Springs Expressway enough to make it good enough to carry an Interstate designation.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 10, 2025, 10:01:43 AMNothing in substance has happened so far with the Western I-42 thing. The designation has been approved, but as far I as can tell no route signage has been installed. At this point only a tiny bit of I-42 could be signed in the Tulsa area (along I-244). Upgrades on US-412 are needed on the edges of Tulsa before I-42 signs can be installed. Those upgrades will probably take many years to complete. The OTA's ACCESS Oklahoma projects might be completed before then and before any I-x42 designations could be used.
Texas signed multiple x69s before mainline I-69 was signed. It doesn't matter.
I think Texas has a different Interstate policy than Oklahoma and most other states (except maybe North Carolina).
It would be nice if Oklahoma had a policy at all.
Just out of curiosity, are there any other states that have these weird cameras right when you enter or shortly after the state line?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pyUT7PaseFXwFLF28?g_st=ac
I'm not sure if I should post this in the "minor things that bother you" thread, but I thought this one was more appropriate given the fact, this is related to Oklahoma. I've just never seen this in any other state. The only other thing I've experienced like this. There's a border patrol checkpoint along I-10 in new mexico. Not to get political, but I do not like stuff like that. And I don't think it should be legal. But I comply, and i'm respectful, and i've not ever had an issue with any of the agents that work at those stations.
But I know the roads leading into oklahoma on I-35 and I-40 both have these very intricate camera setups.Let's snap a picture of you and flash you as you drive through it. Like I said i don't lose sleep over it and it's not something that I get too mad about. But I don't like it.
Are there other states that have something like this?
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 20, 2025, 07:50:41 PMJust out of curiosity, are there any other states that have these weird cameras right when you enter or shortly after the state line?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pyUT7PaseFXwFLF28?g_st=ac
I'm not sure if I should post this in the "minor things that bother you" thread, but I thought this one was more appropriate given the fact, this is related to Oklahoma. I've just never seen this in any other state. The only other thing I've experienced like this. There's a border patrol checkpoint along I-10 in new mexico. Not to get political, but I do not like stuff like that. And I don't think it should be legal. But I comply, and i'm respectful, and i've not ever had an issue with any of the agents that work at those stations.
But I know the roads leading into oklahoma on I-35 and I-40 both have these very intricate camera setups.Let's snap a picture of you and flash you as you drive through it. Like I said i don't lose sleep over it and it's not something that I get too mad about. But I don't like it.
Are there other states that have something like this?
Look like a semi-automatic weight enforcement system to me rather than anything to worry about.
Quote from: Rothman on April 20, 2025, 09:43:36 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on April 20, 2025, 07:50:41 PMJust out of curiosity, are there any other states that have these weird cameras right when you enter or shortly after the state line?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pyUT7PaseFXwFLF28?g_st=ac
I'm not sure if I should post this in the "minor things that bother you" thread, but I thought this one was more appropriate given the fact, this is related to Oklahoma. I've just never seen this in any other state. The only other thing I've experienced like this. There's a border patrol checkpoint along I-10 in new mexico. Not to get political, but I do not like stuff like that. And I don't think it should be legal. But I comply, and i'm respectful, and i've not ever had an issue with any of the agents that work at those stations.
But I know the roads leading into oklahoma on I-35 and I-40 both have these very intricate camera setups.Let's snap a picture of you and flash you as you drive through it. Like I said i don't lose sleep over it and it's not something that I get too mad about. But I don't like it.
Are there other states that have something like this?
Look like a semi-automatic weight enforcement system to me rather than anything to worry about.
That's exactly what it is, but it takes pictures of every single vehicle that goes through it regardless as to whether or not it's a semi truck or a car. It's not something I worry about as I said I just think it's weird. And I don't think I've seen anything like it in any other state.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on April 20, 2025, 10:06:49 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2025, 09:43:36 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on April 20, 2025, 07:50:41 PMJust out of curiosity, are there any other states that have these weird cameras right when you enter or shortly after the state line?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pyUT7PaseFXwFLF28?g_st=ac
I'm not sure if I should post this in the "minor things that bother you" thread, but I thought this one was more appropriate given the fact, this is related to Oklahoma. I've just never seen this in any other state. The only other thing I've experienced like this. There's a border patrol checkpoint along I-10 in new mexico. Not to get political, but I do not like stuff like that. And I don't think it should be legal. But I comply, and i'm respectful, and i've not ever had an issue with any of the agents that work at those stations.
But I know the roads leading into oklahoma on I-35 and I-40 both have these very intricate camera setups.Let's snap a picture of you and flash you as you drive through it. Like I said i don't lose sleep over it and it's not something that I get too mad about. But I don't like it.
Are there other states that have something like this?
Look like a semi-automatic weight enforcement system to me rather than anything to worry about.
That's exactly what it is, but it takes pictures of every single vehicle that goes through it regardless as to whether or not it's a semi truck or a car. It's not something I worry about as I said I just think it's weird. And I don't think I've seen anything like it in any other state.
How do you know this?
Quote from: Rothman on April 21, 2025, 07:04:36 AMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on April 20, 2025, 10:06:49 PMQuote from: Rothman on April 20, 2025, 09:43:36 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on April 20, 2025, 07:50:41 PMJust out of curiosity, are there any other states that have these weird cameras right when you enter or shortly after the state line?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/pyUT7PaseFXwFLF28?g_st=ac
I'm not sure if I should post this in the "minor things that bother you" thread, but I thought this one was more appropriate given the fact, this is related to Oklahoma. I've just never seen this in any other state. The only other thing I've experienced like this. There's a border patrol checkpoint along I-10 in new mexico. Not to get political, but I do not like stuff like that. And I don't think it should be legal. But I comply, and i'm respectful, and i've not ever had an issue with any of the agents that work at those stations.
But I know the roads leading into oklahoma on I-35 and I-40 both have these very intricate camera setups.Let's snap a picture of you and flash you as you drive through it. Like I said i don't lose sleep over it and it's not something that I get too mad about. But I don't like it.
Are there other states that have something like this?
Look like a semi-automatic weight enforcement system to me rather than anything to worry about.
That's exactly what it is, but it takes pictures of every single vehicle that goes through it regardless as to whether or not it's a semi truck or a car. It's not something I worry about as I said I just think it's weird. And I don't think I've seen anything like it in any other state.
How do you know this?
Because I drive through it over a dozen times a year. Why would it flash me if it's not taking a picture?
There are traffic cams all over the place. It is not like these are the only cameras out there. BTW Louisiana has an exact system at Greenwood.
The weigh station is a Prepass site. Truckers receive a green or a red light, via in-cab device or other app, depending on whether they're cleared to bypass the weigh station. Cameras at such locations can capture the truck's license plate, USDOT number, inspection decal, and hazmat placards. I also see evidence of at least two types of detectors in the right lane in advance of the weigh station. Some of those detectors probably give a ballpark load weight, and others are probably looking for signs of poor truck maintenance (a tire going flat will run hotter than a properly inflated one). And trucking companies with a recent high number of violations will have a greater percentage of their trucks given a red light signal.
Obviously, for this system to work, they need to take pictures of every vehicle—and not just the trucks in the right lane. Note that there are also RFID sensors over both lanes downstream of the weigh station exit.
Interesting. Like I said, it doesn't really bother me that much. I've just never noticed such an intricate in advanced system anywhere else though I've obviously seen traffic cameras and stuff like that.
https://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/about-us/transportation-comission/agenda/2025/r/tc_agenda-202505.pdf
A new interstate designation will be coming to the Muskogee Turnpike from the Creek Turnpike to I-40.
The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority and the Indian Nation Council of Governments have requested to redesignate the Muskogee Turnpike as Interstate 343.
a) Add the designation of I-343 to a 52.31-mile stretch of Turnpike known as the Muskogee Turnpike, beginning at the Junction of the Creek Turnpike and the Muskogee Turnpike and continuing south to the junction of the Muskogee Turnpike and I-40.
This designation addition to the highway system will result in no change to the overall highway system of Oklahoma. This revision will become effective upon approval by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission, approval from the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials Special Committee on U.S. Route Numbering, and approval from the Federal Highway Administration. Approval is recommended.
343? What?
I hope that's a typo for 342...
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 05, 2025, 11:41:06 PM343? What?
I hope that's a typo for 342...
Or 340...
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on May 05, 2025, 11:23:00 PMhttps://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/about-us/transportation-comission/agenda/2025/r/tc_agenda-202505.pdf
A new interstate designation will be coming to the Muskogee Turnpike from the Creek Turnpike to I-40.
The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority and the Indian Nation Council of Governments have requested to redesignate the Muskogee Turnpike as Interstate 343.
a) Add the designation of I-343 to a 52.31-mile stretch of Turnpike known as the Muskogee Turnpike, beginning at the Junction of the Creek Turnpike and the Muskogee Turnpike and continuing south to the junction of the Muskogee Turnpike and I-40.
This designation addition to the highway system will result in no change to the overall highway system of Oklahoma. This revision will become effective upon approval by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission, approval from the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials Special Committee on U.S. Route Numbering, and approval from the Federal Highway Administration. Approval is recommended.
AASHTO has made some boneheaded decisions, but even they might wonder about this one.
It had to have been 340 since it isn't supposed to follow OK-51 past the Creek Turnpike, thus making it an x40 or x44.
At some point AASHTO needs to sit down with Oklahoma like a teacher with a student who keeps submitting homework done wrong. I can forgive 335 and 344, even though I would've preferred even digits (especially with 344 supposedly connecting back to I-44 in the future). I-240 ending where it does only makes sense with 344 being extended in the future. When I saw I-644 being proposed for the Creek Turnpike I thought they were getting on the right track. But 343 is just out of left field, even with 340 being the most likely number I don't know how that second 3 got there. I-340 should be the only one of these turnpikes to start with an odd digit.
More of this I-3XX nonsense? After the route naming junk that happened in OKC it really wouldn't surprise me if OTA really wanted an "I-343" designation applied to the Muskogee Turnpike (despite the I-43 parent being located in Wisconsin). Hell, why not just apply for a "I-351" designation instead? There is no I-51 in existence, but why should that matter? Name the Creek Turnpike "I-364" while they're at it. Maybe we can start using other designations for Interstate routes. We can have "Interstate Cat" and "Interstate Hamburger."
At least this is something regarding Oklahoma I can laugh at a little. Other things are going on that are far more embarrassing and destructive, such as the lunacy happening with the state's public schools. The state's ability to attract new businesses and new families is going to be hurt severely by this. Here in Lawton I can easily imagine Fort Sill moving to build its own middle school and high school to shield DOD dependents from Oklahoma's culture war shit. They may not be able to do so with the current administration in charge. But the Army isn't going to forget about it either.
and you guys complain about Texas and our only applying IH numbers when Washington DC says we must
I-343?
I'm guessing they thought they were in Wisconsin?
Quote from: bwana39and you guys complain about Texas and our only applying IH numbers when Washington DC says we must
I don't seem to recall the government forcing the "I-14" thing on Texas. IIRC it was elected politicians in Texas who floated the idea.
I'm very confused. 343 makes no sense at all.
Also:
Why does I-343 stop at the Creek Turnpike? Why not terminate at I-44 or I-444 downtown?
Is the Creek going to get an Interstate designation as well?
They already voted to approve Creek Turnpike to I-644 last month.
If the Creek Turnpike does become Interstate 644, maybe they can finally number the exits south of Exit 28. If OK 51/351 becomes an Interstate Highway (preferably Interstate 340), the designation should have a western terminus at Interstate 244.
Yeah, it would make sense to have a single Interstate designation run along all of the Broken Arrow Expressway from the IDL in downtown Tulsa out past the Creek Turnpike. Right how the expressway is signed as US-64 on one portion, OK-51 on another portion and OK-351 on yet another portion.
Even though that approach would make sense, it seems more likely the OTA would just have the "I-343" designation (or whatever it's going to be) just end at the current split between OK-51 and OK-351.
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on May 05, 2025, 11:23:00 PMhttps://oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/odot/about-us/transportation-comission/agenda/2025/r/tc_agenda-202505.pdf
A new interstate designation will be coming to the Muskogee Turnpike from the Creek Turnpike to I-40.
The Oklahoma Turnpike Authority and the Indian Nation Council of Governments have requested to redesignate the Muskogee Turnpike as Interstate 343.
a) Add the designation of I-343 to a 52.31-mile stretch of Turnpike known as the Muskogee Turnpike, beginning at the Junction of the Creek Turnpike and the Muskogee Turnpike and continuing south to the junction of the Muskogee Turnpike and I-40.
This designation addition to the highway system will result in no change to the overall highway system of Oklahoma. This revision will become effective upon approval by the Oklahoma Transportation Commission, approval from the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials Special Committee on U.S. Route Numbering, and approval from the Federal Highway Administration. Approval is recommended.
I had to check the date, thinking this was posted on April 1. What is the OTA smoking? Where did they get this number? It doesn't run anywhere near OK 43, and I-43 is way up in Wisconsin. They must have pulled it out of their ass. Hopefully AASHTO will deny it and approve something like I-640 or I-840.
This document also mentions that the Creek Turnpike will be designated I-644. This number makes perfect sense. Now will the Gilcrease Turnpike get an I-number?
The only number left for a Gilcrease Expressway/Turnpike designation would be Interstate 844. I'd prefer that the OK 344 designation be maintained and extended along the entire duration of the Gilcrease.
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on December 15, 2024, 04:54:05 AMSign replacement coming to the I-35/44 overlap in OKC! On the January 2025 letting from ODOT (January 16th)...
Edit: Yes, the new signs will include the I-344 designation on the JKT.
This is interesting to me because these signs were just replaced in 2018 as part of a project where new signage was posted on most of I-35 from Norman to Edmond. Looking at the sign plans, only a few signs look different than what were posted in 2018, and most of those are related to Kilpatrick becoming I-344 with the addition of Yukon as a control city.
All this while there are some signs on I-35 north of the OKC metro which have been there since the 90s.
Quote from: bugoI had to check the date, thinking this was posted on April 1. What is the OTA smoking? Where did they get this number? It doesn't run anywhere near OK 43, and I-43 is way up in Wisconsin. They must have pulled it out of their ass. Hopefully AASHTO will deny it and approve something like I-640 or I-840.
I'm praying the "I-343" number is a typo. If the AASHTO approves that incorrect designation it would be a signal that there is no working numbering system for Interstate highways anymore. Some politician needing a route number for a freeway/toll road project will grab any vanity number he desires.
Quote from: The GhostbusterI'd prefer that the OK 344 designation be maintained and extended along the entire duration of the Gilcrease.
When I first saw the OK-344 designation in Tulsa I thought it was labeled that way with the intention to eventually change it to I-344. Then the dopey stuff with I-344 happened in OKC. The route naming conflict could be solved with an I-844 designation applied to all of the Gilcrease Turnpike when it is completed.
Whatever designation is applied to the entirety of the Gilcrease, I think the OK 11 designation should be truncated to its interchange with US 75. I don't think the US 75-to-Interstate 244 segment needs to have an OK 11/OK 344 duplex, it seems unnecessary to me.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 07, 2025, 01:27:10 PMThe only number left for a Gilcrease Expressway/Turnpike designation would be Interstate 844. I'd prefer that the OK 344 designation be maintained and extended along the entire duration of the Gilcrease.
I-X42 will be available. I-342 since I-344 is now taken.
I sent an email to my ODOT contact asking about the "I-343" designation today. I might ought to send it to the OTA as well.
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 07, 2025, 01:27:10 PMThe only number left for a Gilcrease Expressway/Turnpike designation would be Interstate 844.
242, 442, 642, and 842 would also all be available. (And the odd x42s and x44s if you're fine with routes with ends at two different interstates getting odd first digits.)
I was driving the Creek the other day and was wondering when it was going to be an Interstate..
When will they sign 644 and I-42 in Tulsa?
Unknown on the former, and probably not for quite a while on the latter.
Doesn't AASHOTE meet next week? Will they vote on this?
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 07, 2025, 03:05:25 PMQuote from: bugoI had to check the date, thinking this was posted on April 1. What is the OTA smoking? Where did they get this number? It doesn't run anywhere near OK 43, and I-43 is way up in Wisconsin. They must have pulled it out of their ass. Hopefully AASHTO will deny it and approve something like I-640 or I-840.
I'm praying the "I-343" number is a typo. If the AASHTO approves that incorrect designation it would be a signal that there is no working numbering system for Interstate highways anymore. Some politician needing a route number for a freeway/toll road project will grab any vanity number he desires.
Quote from: The GhostbusterI'd prefer that the OK 344 designation be maintained and extended along the entire duration of the Gilcrease.
When I first saw the OK-344 designation in Tulsa I thought it was labeled that way with the intention to eventually change it to I-344. Then the dopey stuff with I-344 happened in OKC. The route naming conflict could be solved with an I-844 designation applied to all of the Gilcrease Turnpike when it is completed.
I have a guess about how might I-343 fit in Oklahoma.
Today future Oklahoma Interstate-45 is mandated to eventually run from US-75 at the Texas state line to I-44 near Big Cabin mostly along the current path of US-69.
My guess is that ODOT has a plan to ask that part of the future I-45 corridor be correctly rerouted starting at McAlester. This would have this part of future I-45 move to the path of the Indian Nations Turnpike on to US-75 and Tulsa as a major interstate connecting Dallas/Houston and Tulsa.
A "new" Interstate-43 would then be requested to replace the former future (say that three times) section of I-45 between McAlester and Big Cabin. This new I-43 would intersect the requested I-343 at Muskogee making the duplex make perfect sense in 2075 or whenever ODOT finishes upgrading US-69.
I have no inside information. Please pick this apart if it makes no sense, or less sense than numbering the Muskogee turnpike as I-343.
Quote from: swake on May 08, 2025, 04:50:33 PMI have a guess about how might I-343 fit in Oklahoma.
Today future Oklahoma Interstate-45 is mandated to eventually run from US-75 at the Texas state line to I-44 near Big Cabin mostly along the current path of US-69.
My guess is that ODOT has a plan to ask that part of the future I-45 corridor be correctly rerouted starting at McAlester. This would have this part of future I-45 move to the path of the Indian Nations Turnpike on to US-75 and Tulsa as a major interstate connecting Dallas/Houston and Tulsa.
A "new" Interstate-43 would then be requested to replace the former future (say that three times) section of I-45 between McAlester and Big Cabin. This new I-43 would intersect the requested I-343 at Muskogee making the duplex make perfect sense in 2075 or whenever ODOT finishes upgrading US-69.
I have no inside information. Please pick this apart if it makes no sense, or less sense than numbering the Muskogee turnpike as I-343.
I totally disagree. Oklahoma is myopic, and they don't look that far into the future. They did name the Kickapoo Turnpike I-335 because they eventually plan on connecting it to I-35, but there are future plans for that highway. There are no plans on an "I-43" in Oklahoma that I am aware of.
I don't believe there is a "Future I-45" at this time. It's a fantasy highway thing, not an official proposal as far as I know.
The simplest explanation—that it's either a typo or someone at OTA pulled the number out of their ass because they, like most Oklahoma government employees, don't know enough or care about doing their job correctly—fits the facts.
As a collective group, we've seen enough ODOT/OTA Specials™ to know what the score is.
At this point, there is no formal proposal to take I-45 anywhere from its current end at I-30 on the south side of downtown Dallas.
FORMAL
There is lots of informal discussion to extend I-45 to at least US-69 south of the Oklahoma state line. That discussion is pretty much moot without the eventual extension to at least I-40.
Oklahoma has a long way to go.
There is lots of discussion to follow US-69 from Texas to Big Cabin on I-44. The other discussion would be to Follow the Indian Nation Turnpike from US-69 to its end at Henryetta and follow US-62 /75 to Tulsa. In either case I-44 would seemingly be the termination. I-44 and I-49 would carry the load.
Either way, the improved US-412 will likely pre-date this by a decade or more.
A complete, Interstate-quality freeway upgrade of US-69 between I-40 and the Red River certainly won't happen for a long time -at least not unless there was some big federal-based push to make it happen. If such an upgrade depends on ODOT building it with state funding very little will be improved.
I do expect US-69/75 to be upgraded to Interstate quality from the Red River to US-70 in Durant. The existing freeway in Durant may also be improved (since it looks like it is in pretty bad shape). US-69 in McAlester will likely be fully improved to Interstate quality and maybe that freeway might be extended past the Savanna Army Ammunition Plant. Outside of those improvements nothing else is going to get done any time soon (if ever).
I don't think the Western "I-42" upgrade of US-412 is exactly a slam-dunk gonna happen thing either. Some portions of it might get signed as I-42. But there is going to be a couple of serious gaps to fill. The biggest gap is the one 20 or so miles wide between the East end of the Cherokee Turnpike at Dripping Springs and the West end of the AR-612 bypass. Nothing is really set to get around the Siloam Springs area. It could end up being just as a bad a road block as the ones along US-69/75.
It's frustrating that Oklahoma wants to focus on all these stupid 3DIs and not ones that would make sense like I-45.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on May 10, 2025, 04:16:02 PMIt's frustrating that Oklahoma wants to focus on all these stupid 3DIs and not ones that would make sense like I-45.
Probably because the 3dis are slapping shields on existing freeways, as opposed to upgrading long stretches of existing roadway to interstate standards with costly bridges, interchanges, access roads, and new location bypasses in some areas.
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 10, 2025, 04:28:14 PMQuote from: Plutonic Panda on May 10, 2025, 04:16:02 PMIt's frustrating that Oklahoma wants to focus on all these stupid 3DIs and not ones that would make sense like I-45.
Probably because the 3dis are slapping shields on existing freeways, as opposed to upgrading long stretches of existing roadway to interstate standards with costly bridges, interchanges, access roads, and new location bypasses in some areas.
Cheap and easy the true Oklahoma standard.
Quote from: bwana39 on May 10, 2025, 02:27:07 PMThere is lots of informal discussion to extend I-45 to at least US-69 south of the Oklahoma state line.
How informal are we talking here? Is this informal roadgeek discussion that doesn't matter worth a hill of beans, or do you have a source inside ODOT/OTA that has reported they're talking about it around the office there?
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 10, 2025, 09:22:28 PMQuote from: bwana39 on May 10, 2025, 02:27:07 PMThere is lots of informal discussion to extend I-45 to at least US-69 south of the Oklahoma state line.
How informal are we talking here? Is this informal roadgeek discussion that doesn't matter worth a hill of beans, or do you have a source inside ODOT/OTA that has reported they're talking about it around the office there?
More like the local agencies. CoC, Regional planning offices, water coolers, regional media. Certainly NOT anything as a true planning meeting with minutes.
I'd be interested to see some of this regional media discussing it. That's the sort of stuff you need to document it on the wiki.
I-45 is not named as the designated interstate, but the 1991 ISTEA legislation does set the US-69 corridor in Oklahoma as a future interstate. I was wrong, this law does not authorize Oklahoma to continue US-69 as an interstate to all the way to Big Cabin. on I-44, just to Checotah on I-40.
1991 ISTEA legislation authorized Oklahoma to:
QuoteSEC. 1074. DESIGNATION OF UNITED STATES ROUTE 69.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, upon the request of
the Oklahoma State highway agency, the Secretary shall designate
the portion of United States Route 69 from the Oklahoma-Texas
State line to Checotah in the State of Oklahoma as a part of the
Interstate System pursuant to section 139 of title 23, United States
Code.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-105/pdf/STATUTE-105-Pg1914.pdf
Being set in law, this is not just imagination.
I think the choice to end the future Interstate designation at I-40 near Checotah was a conservative one. That's based on what could be possibly completed within the next couple of decades. It's still likely other portions of the US-69 corridor will get upgraded North of I-40 on the way to Big Cabin.
The US-69 freeway segment in Central Oklahoma begins on the North side of McAlester and ends on the Southern outskirts of Muskogee, 17 miles North of the I-40 interchange. The freeway doesn't dead end at I-40.
I could see a segment of US-69 at the Mid America Industrial Park on the North side of Chouteau getting upgraded to Interstate standards. It could be accelerated by freeway improvements to US-412 (Future I-42) nearby.
For now, people in Muskogee are resistant to a US-69 freeway bypass being built. I don't know how people in Chouteu and Pryor feel about it. A new Interstate-quality freeway segment from US-412 to the North of Pryor could open more expansion opportunity for the Mid America Industrial Park.
[quote author=Bobby5280 link=msg=2983735 date=1746984913
I could see a segment of US-69 at the Mid America Industrial Park on the North side of Chouteau getting upgraded to Interstate standards. It could be accelerated by freeway improvements to US-412 (Future I-42) nearby.
[/quote]
The US-412/I-42 upgrade project has a $32 million spend planned for next year (2026) to build an interchange at US-412B for the Mid America Industrial Park.
The existing interchange between US-412 and US-69 at Chouteau has money scheduled for buying right of way and moving utilities in 2030 for future improvements. The current interchange is interstate grade for US-412 today, but maybe not for US-69? The curves getting on and off US-69 are very tight. I'm not sure.
The existing cloverleaf interchange at US-412 and US-69 isn't a freeway-to-freeway quality cloverleaf. The turns are too tight, especially where the ramps connect to US-69. The ramps would have to be completely re-built to support a freeway-to-freeway design.
Another problem is US-69 itself in that location. The town of Choteau is immediately North of the interchange. I don't think it would be practical to bulldoze a freeway upgrade nearly 2 miles directly thru the middle of Choteau. It might be possible to upgrade US-69 along the existing alignment South of US-412 up to that cloverleaf interchange. Still, the Love's location and other businesses on the South side of the interchange might be wiped out by a new interchange, regardless if it's a new cloverleaf design, a turbine interchange or even a Y interchange.
Quote from: swake on May 11, 2025, 01:08:25 PMI-45 is not named as the designated interstate, but the 1991 ISTEA legislation...
So you don't actually have any proof that this is something someone in power has talked about more recently than 1991?
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2025, 11:35:33 AMI'd be interested to see some of this regional media discussing it. That's the sort of stuff you need to document it on the wiki.
https://www.kxii.com/2024/06/20/3-million-going-toward-denison-highway-project/
https://www.kxii.com/content/news/US-75-stretch-in-Sherman-only-section-in-Texas-not-up-to-interstate-standards-465287963.html
https://www.tex21.net/corridor-coalitions
There have been other odds and ends discussed on the Sherman / Ada media.
And yes, we have discussed it on here ad nauseum. https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=22399.0
Not anything formal or even notable, just occasional chirps coming up.
Quote from: Scott5114 on May 11, 2025, 09:46:57 PMQuote from: swake on May 11, 2025, 01:08:25 PMI-45 is not named as the designated interstate, but the 1991 ISTEA legislation...
So you don't actually have any proof that this is something someone in power has talked about more recently than 1991?
No. I said my memory was faulty. The law didn't specify 45 as the designation and the authorization of the route stopped at I-40.
I will say that if ODOT doesn't plan decades into the future that's just another failure.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on July 19, 2024, 02:53:02 PMQuote from: I-35 on April 11, 2024, 12:13:32 PMGood news for Southern Oklahoma - ODOT will move forward with planning for a new 4-lane bridge across Lake Texoma to the south of the existing Roosevelt Bridge, which was built in 1942 and will remain. ODOT is looking to offload the old bridge onto a nonprofit or other entity that would then preserve it and perhaps open it up for fishing or other activities.
ODOT selects new 4-lane alignment for US-70 Roosevelt Bridge replacement (https://www.kxii.com/2024/04/10/odot-build-new-roosevelt-bridge-keep-existing-bridge/)
This project just received $124 million from the feds and is scheduled to start construction in 2029. It would be nice if they could speed it up, but ODOT already has so much on their plate GIVEN HOW POORLY THEY'RE FUNDED I CAN'T REALLY BLAME THEM. Either way, this is great news. Sorry for the uppercase my phone just decided that sentence needed to be up because I'm using Speech to text and I'm too lazy to change it.
Here's the press release:
QuoteThe White House announced Wednesday the Oklahoma Department of Transportation will receive a $124 million Large Bridge Project award through the Federal Highway Administration's Bridge Investment Program for the replacement of the US-70 Roosevelt Bridge across Lake Texoma between Kingston and Durant in Southeastern Oklahoma.
The grants, a part of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, will fund the reconstruction, repair and restoration of 13 nationally significant bridges spanning 16 states.
Oklahoma Department of Transportation Executive Director Tim Gatz said this is the largest transportation grant Oklahoma has been awarded in its history. The award surpasses the $85 million National Infrastructure Project Assistance (MEGA program) grant received in January 2023 that went toward the I-44 and US-75 interchange improvements in Tulsa. The final phase of that funding amount will be let to bid in September.
"This is exciting news for the state and we're grateful to Gov. Stitt and members of Oklahoma's Congressional and Legislative delegation and the Federal Highway Administration for seeing the importance of this corridor and helping the department secure an additional funding source," Gatz said. "The Roosevelt Memorial bridge is an outdated design - nearly 80 years old - and doesn't meet current or future traffic needs."
The project will improve the efficiency and reliability of moving people and freight, increase resiliency to flooding and increase safety through a potential pedestrian and bicycle crossing. Plans are to build the bridge to the south of the existing structure while keeping the current bridge open to traffic. The new bridge will be four lanes with shoulders, rumble strips and lighting. ODOT is proposing new and innovative alternative delivery methods with construction currently scheduled in the Eight-Year Construction Work Plan to begin in 2029. The bridge carries 8,500 vehicles per day.
Although half of the estimated cost of the project is coming from this grant, House Bill 2915, passed in the 2024 legislative session, allows the department the ability to bond up to $200 million against the project, which is currently estimated to cost more than $250 million. The legislation provides an opportunity to consider advancement of the project in the annual Eight-Year Plan, currently under rebalance and expected to be released this fall.
"We are committed to this priority project and want to move it forward as responsibly and as expeditiously as possible to meet the needs of the surrounding communities," Gatz said.
- https://oklahoma.gov/odot/citizen/newsroom/2024/major-grant-secured-for-us-70-roosevelt-memorial-bridge-replacem.html
Not a moment too soon.The existing facility is down to
one lane two narrowed lanes and a minimal speed limit for as much as 3-4 months (much of the summer lake season.)
Coming up in the ODOT's July 17th letting is an interchange reconstruction of I-40 at Gary Boulevard (I-40 BUS) in Clinton.
EDIT: 1500th post on the AARoads forum!
Which interchange is it? The one on the East side of town or the West side?
Quote from: Bobby5280 on May 27, 2025, 10:34:15 PMWhich interchange is it? The one on the East side of town or the West side?
The west side (the one with a convoluted route to get onto I-40 EB from Gary Boulevard).
The EB I-40 off-ramp to Gary Blvd looks kind of like a movement in a turbine interchange. The off-ramp's bridge going over the I-40 main lanes looks old as hell. The design looks like it dates back to at least the 1960's, if not older. Unless the entire interchange is re-configured into another type of design it looks like that old bridge may be the only structure that gets replaced. The other ramps might get some new pavement.
I really don't like the WB I-40 arrangement in that location. The on-ramp from Neptune Drive onto WB I-40 is really close to the next exit ramp from WB I-40 to Gary Blvd. The end of either ramp is only 1000' apart. I'll bet serious traffic weaving issues occur there, even with Clinton being a small town. In a bigger city those ramps would have to be braided to eliminate the weaving conflicts.
Here's the most recent link I could find (2019)
https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about-us/public-meetings/archive/2019/20190228.html
That video from 2019 is pretty informative. The proposal would get rid of the turbine style loop ramp from EB I-40 to NB Gary Blvd. More importantly, exits 65 and 65A would effectively be combined into one single exit. That would eliminate the dangerous weaving issues present on WB I-40 between the exit 65A on ramp and exit 65 off ramp. I'm not a big fan of roundabouts. Motorists will have to do a good bit more back-tracking when going thru them. But that section of Interstate will be safer.
Quote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2025, 11:36:45 PMThat video from 2019 is pretty informative. The proposal would get rid of the turbine style loop ramp from EB I-40 to NB Gary Blvd. More importantly, exits 65 and 65A would effectively be combined into one single exit. That would eliminate the dangerous weaving issues present on WB I-40 between the exit 65A on ramp and exit 65 off ramp. I'm not a big fan of roundabouts. Motorists will have to do a good bit more back-tracking when going thru them. But that section of Interstate will be safer.
That design from 2019 has since been replaced with a different design.
ODOT actually went with a diamond interchange for Gary Boulevard with a Texas turnaround. The Texas turnaround will be used for traffic heading to 10th Street/Neptune Drive from westbound I-40 as well as accessing eastbound I-40 from 10th Street/Neptune Drive. Yes, it will still be one interchange, but a different design than what ODOT preferred from the 2019 meeting.
2020 meeting: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about-us/public-meetings/archive/2020/20201202.html
Quote from: Great Lakes Roads on June 10, 2025, 01:41:55 AMQuote from: Bobby5280 on June 09, 2025, 11:36:45 PMThat video from 2019 is pretty informative. The proposal would get rid of the turbine style loop ramp from EB I-40 to NB Gary Blvd. More importantly, exits 65 and 65A would effectively be combined into one single exit. That would eliminate the dangerous weaving issues present on WB I-40 between the exit 65A on ramp and exit 65 off ramp. I'm not a big fan of roundabouts. Motorists will have to do a good bit more back-tracking when going thru them. But that section of Interstate will be safer.
That design from 2019 has since been replaced with a different design.
ODOT actually went with a diamond interchange for Gary Boulevard with a Texas turnaround. The Texas turnaround will be used for traffic heading to 10th Street/Neptune Drive from westbound I-40 as well as accessing eastbound I-40 from 10th Street/Neptune Drive. Yes, it will still be one interchange, but a different design than what ODOT preferred from the 2019 meeting.
2020 meeting: https://oklahoma.gov/odot/about-us/public-meetings/archive/2020/20201202.html
Thanks for the update. I knew there were changes but I could not find them.
The updated changes look like a much cheaper design. It still removes the weaving conflicts on WB I-40 currently present between exits 65A and 65. But the trade-off is traffic exiting WB I-40 to Gary Blvd will have to merge with vehicles coming from Neptune Drive to get on I-40.
The U-turn movement along Gary Blvd makes up for two I-40 ramps being removed at Neptune Drive. It isn't much of a bonus, considering the extra distances vehicles coming to/from Neptune Drive will have to cover. I think the short extension of Gary Blvd down to Chapman Road makes up for that a bit. I can't tell if the new I-40 exit with Gary Blvd will have traffic signals. The presence of signal lights could influence how locals access I-40, either using Chapman Road or Neptune Drive.
Great YT video by Road Guy Rob going over 'Tulsahenge' at US75 and I-44.
https://www.news9.com/story/686d57c6daec6e8f6f9f189f/class-action-lawsuit-seeks-toll-free-status-for-will-rogers-turnpike-between-claremore-and-catoosa
Someone wants their money back lol...
There was a Meatloaf song called "Life Is a Lemon and I Want My Money Back": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KanegVORJYE. Maybe that pertains in this case.
Road Guy Rob got a shoutout from the OTA. :clap:
(Shoutout from the director starts at the 24:23 mark of the video)